Atlanta Hawks: Video: The draft and the ‘core’

PLEASE KEEP BLOG COMMENTS OPEN THANK YOU

• Link
• Report this comment

I would imagine many of these players would probably be available where the Hawks pick.

• Link
• Report this comment

When they flashed Al’s stats, they really flashed Josh Smith’s stats in the video

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW, that wasn’t by accident, lol. Which one REALLY look better? lol. Still thinking what if they would have hired Mark Jackson (who I didn’t even realize was a pastor) or D. Casey.

• Link
• Report this comment

IF you could trade Marvin for a TPE that would be great. IF you could trade Marvin for Vareajao, that would be highway robbery and one of the best deals the Hawks have made. I would love to see them be able to trade Marvin and Zaza for Vareajao actually. So then they could still have enough room to sign Dalembert, and a vet minimum free agent like Grant Hill or McGrady (or Vince). Imagine that.

Teague, Joe, -sf- (or Josh), Josh, Al
with a bench of Kirk, Vareajao, Vince, Dalembert, Wilkins, Sy, and #48 pick.

• Link
• Report this comment

MC I’m glad you pointed out the need to move away from the Joe-centered offensive scheme. I notice you didn’t really mention Teague, though… how much do you think he can contribute next season?

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW,

I think Cleveland would make Marvin the No. 3 option on that team and he’d do fine there. We turned down Marvin for Shaq last summer. We refused to include Marvin in a trade for Devin Harris earlier this year.
*****
Jay Dabu,

It’s sad because Sund said our core players are all improving. LOL. The only player on our team who improved last year was Jeff Teague, and he isn’t in the core.

• Link
• Report this comment

I really don’t care much about this draft. There aren’t many big names.

I only care if there are trades involving us or someone like V.Carter moves (Chicago)

• Link
• Report this comment

MC: What guard outside of Crawford may be an option for the Hawks in your opinion?

• Link
• Report this comment

Could you guys define superstar? Because by most definitions Amare is a superstar and Carmelo is a superstar but Tyson Chandler isn’t and Kendrick Perkins wasn’t/isn’t.

Dwight Howard is. Jason Collins and Pachulia and Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson Horford aren’t.

The key is identifying the top players/teams and attacking their weaknesses.

Orlando: no double teams = no offense
Chicago: keep Noah off the boards with a fast big man, Asik and Gibson as well, don’t go small or with a slow big man because Rose will get more aggressive
Boston: speed, youth, big man depth is gone, KG has to defend the centers at time and plays low amount of minutes and is slowing down like Tim Duncan.
Los Angeles: weakness pg and Sf, play 2 big and slow 7 footers and considering his position Ron Artest is slower and less athletic than both of them. Bench is Lamar Odom and not much else

Dallas: Mike Miller is being shopped for a reason he’s not a big slasher like Wade/Lebron they thought he’d be.

Jason Kidd can guard Wade but how about Joe Johnson or Josh Smith who has a better back to the basket post game than Lebron/Durant?

can Barea/Terry guard Marvin William? run some cross screens to hit him in the paint and/or put him in the post.

NOT FAIR to play big? Tough Luck go HAWKS!

:::::::::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams,6′8/Malcolm Thomas,6′9/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

Sy+ Horford for Rockets Picks, Motiejunas,Hasheem, MalcolmThomas, Jordan Hill

• Link
• Report this comment

@Michael Cunningham

Hinrich and Teague starting makes Joe Johnson have to defend Lebron, the Dengs the Marions and score against their length.

We don’t have a Dirk Nowitzki-Tyson Chandler down low to challenge shots when our perimeters get beat.

The Hinrich Teague lineup drains our bench guards and we’re already lacking for 2-way big men we’ll be overpumping the starting lineup. And come playoff time Dwight Howard rocks that lineup to sleep.

Joe Johnson does not have the length to negate Turkoglu/Earl Clark whoever Orlando brings in.

NBA contenders don’t have small starting lineups. Hinrich has not been a dominant defender and scorer for years now. awesome bench player if we got the bench some help though,

we need to force our own matchups not try to go small or resign family members to accomodate feelings
:::::::::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams,6′8/Malcolm Thomas,6′9/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

• Link
• Report this comment

I got nothing to loose. If the Hawks are trading then they should only look at trading joe johnson or josh smith. Trading Marvin Williams will get you nothing in return and I honestly think if Marvin gets the chance to be a second option on a team he is going to make us look bad. I don’t have that worry with Joe and Josh I would hate to see go, but I just don’t care so much for.

I just want to see Joe go. trade em to the clippers for kaman, gordon and a first round pick or something.

• Link
• Report this comment

@MC you say you want Joe to be a 2ndary scorer but look

lets say Teague can get 16ppg and Hinrich keeps his average up to 10ppg in major minutes

Jeff Teague/16***
Kirk Hinrich/10
Joe Johnson/18
Josh Smith/16
Al Horford/11
****that’s 71 points per game AND even if Smith is still heavy its a small interior defense in the playoffs.

Jeff Teague/16***
Joe Johnson/18
Josh Smith/16
Motiejunas/14
Hasheem/ 6 (20mpg) we get a Perkins like 6 points and 6 rebounds.

Then we still have for Pachulia, Jordan Hill, Kirk Hinrich, and Marvin Williams finally at the 2 and Malcolm Thomas who is a Granger/Hakim Warrick type at the 3.
That bench can easily average 20 ppg (4ppg from everybody).
Statistically it’s like you filled the bench with 5 Zaza Pachulia’s instead of one.

People say the Detroit model but that team never won until they got a 7 foot PF-C and shifted Corliss from the PF to the SF,
San Antonio 2 7 foot PF-Cs, Duncan and Robinson and Duncan +Mohammed/Oberto
Boston: 7 foot PF with C
Dallas: Dirk+ Dampier= fail, Dirk+ Chandler= win in 1st season together and Chandler is the youngest starter on that team.

NYK: want the defense of Dalembert over Marc Gasol to compensate for 6′10 Stoudemire who is a bad defender, swept by

Motiejunas: with Smith, Joe and Teague, will be open enough to score 14ppg easily,7′1 can shoot the 3. Like Rasheed he can shoot over smaller defenders and spread the floor out to 3. It’s like Small Ball except we dont give up defense.
………….
Projections:
36mpg 12mpg
Jeff Teague/ 16*** ; Hinrich 4ppg against backups
Joe Johnson/16 ; Marvin 4ppg against backups, as a 2 guard
Josh Smith/16 ; Thomas 4ppg against backups, as a 3
…….
Motiejunas/ 11ppg ; Hill 4ppg against backups, as a 4/5
24mpg 24mpg
Thabeet/ 6ppg; Pachulia 4ppg against backups, as a 4/5

…………..
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams,6′8/Malcolm Thomas,6′9/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

• Link
• Report this comment

I’ll be the first to say Joe got too much $. He is falling out of the top 10 shooting guards altogether.

But at the same time he brings the size to defend and post up Keith Bogans and Redick and shoot over the D-Wades.

Smith has already proven that he is a better post player at the 3 than the 4/5 (should have been obvious for years). A caveat being his weight/speed hampers his stamina and effectiveness.

He posts up Durant Deng Iguodala Turkoglu etc. He slims up and he may gain on Carmelo and Lebron.

Horford is one of the best centers excluding the fact that he cant defend the good ones in the playoffs. But when you compare him to power forwards his Value Added is falling out of the top 10.
Add the fact that all you need to do is play 2 centers to attack him with one and Al cant take them off the dribble on offense = trouble.

:::::
“I got nothing to loose. If the Hawks are trading then they should only look at trading joe johnson or josh smith. Trading Marvin Williams will get you nothing in return and I honestly think if Marvin gets the chance to be a second option on a team he is going to make us look bad. I don’t have that worry with Joe and Josh I would hate to see go, but I just don’t care so much for.

I just want to see Joe go. trade em to the clippers for kaman, gordon and a first round pick or something.”

Call back when Eric Gordon is 30 years old!!

• Link
• Report this comment

@MC

Why don’t you just admit that you don’t like Marvin’s game!.

• Link
• Report this comment

MC, I’m calling you Lion Heart…for way the YOU REP the blog crew…I cringed when I heard Sund…reaching out to Jamal…Just be honest with him…and move on like POP for SA do…no since in fanning the flame.

If your are the BASG how TF can you afford to pay two guys…that are the same type of playerS…Basically, during the playoff…it was proven…that JJ and Jamal…are the same type of players…Jamal will be fine…Heck, he is in the cat bird seat…after what happen to LA and Miami.

Save for trading JJ…WHY TF WOULD YOU RESIGN JAMAL…dang my bad…we are talking about Sund and the ASG.

Drmaryb, you’re the best…the one about Beasley…has to be a candidate for the blog…of the century…LOL

• Link
• Report this comment

Iwnabp, how can you justify keeping Marvin and if he clears out some cap space, all the better. Do you recall Marvin having 2 good games in the same week? He has a game here, a game there, he has had a couple of big scoring nights with Joe out of the lineup, but that was against Cleveland.
The whole fantasy nation knows what Marvin can do, and that is why he isn’t even in the top 30 SFs in the league.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rick Sund, read this and make this choice….

“With the 48th pick in the NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks make their first selection and select Josh Harrellson, C from the University of Kentucky”….If Jeremy Tyler isn’t going to be there, go get me a big man from a Final Four team. He practiced against Kanter all year in Kentucky, and that had to help him.
He held his own against Sullinger in the Ohio State tournament game as well, and Sullinger would be Top 5 today if he came out.
The question is, did Sund bring him in for a workout, or does he not know who Josh Harrellson is? That would not surprise me.

• Link
• Report this comment

@KevinM
yeah when joe Max is hurt, he always gets at least 15ppg, he has had some of his biggest games when other players were hurt, Marvin was around the 14ppg mark for 3 years in a row until jamal and his 1000 shot attempts basically cut marvin shot attempts down to nothing..That is a fact, but my whole point is this, The Hawks have had 2 top 3 picks, 1 of the picks has been forced to play out of position his whole career, which has hurt the development of the former #3 pick, while the guy we picked 2nd has been basically asked to play off the likes of the 3Js, Joe,Jamal and Josh?..Why not at least see what the guy can do before you trade him..joe hogging the ball is not going to get us anywhere..When you draft guys in the top 3, you have to use them and use them right!

• Link
• Report this comment

What if we tanked the upcoming season? Seriously!!! And used it as a platform to develop Teague and either Josh or Al’s personal game. In the process, we can shed major contracts in a fashion similar to NY-2008-10 by juggling some of the other chips here and there. The benefit is we get a decent first round pick out it, shed contracts and rebuild long term, and also short term if the right moves are made. We could be looking at making a push again as early as the 2013 season

• Link
• Report this comment

I am sick of hearing about our CORE. We don’t have a CORE. We need to quit flattering ourselves. We don’t have a CORE. We have 2 forwards, a shooting guard that is a horrible leader and a PG that the head coach does not want to play.

Stop with the CORE crap.

• Link
• Report this comment

Worst GM in the NBA
Worst Ownership in Sports
No Center
No leadership
No physicality
No hard workers

Josh and Damien spend ALL DAY on Twitter.

What is Kobe doing? Probably getting up at 5 am to shoot jumpers

• Link
• Report this comment

http://youtu.be/ze3NXkUmLKA

• Link
• Report this comment

AJ,

I think mikki moore would be useful off the bench

I said it last year. Hawks should have gotten shaq. If he is healthy, he would have helped down low. And he would have helped with marketing, sponsorship, ticket sales, and it would have allowed us to get rid of marvin in a sign and trade.

But rick didnt want to mess with the core, and they were afraid of chemistry issues with shaq. However, rick has to shake the team up one way or the other.

• Link
• Report this comment

I actually agree, Marvin could be an effective back-up for Joe if they run the same sets for both. In that case or if he’s traded we need help at SF

Of course we need help at C.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Hawks to Newark?

From the NY Post:

“According to the report, the Sacramento Kings, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Hornets, Atlanta Hawks, Minnesota Timberwolves and Charlotte Bobcats are considered possible candidates for a move due to financial losses and a desire for a new arena.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/newark_mayor_wants_nba_team_to_replace_JqaHct2aQlbBiC8LfvAg4I#ixzz1PsWMVsD3

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh – Thanks – I was just curious….

• Link
• Report this comment

Ric Bucher just said Enes Kanter’s worst case scenario is… Zaza.

This is the consensus #3 pick in this draft.

And we are supposed to trade up in this draft? GTFOH

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh- I worry less about Smith; an actual change in culture and play would be great.

What worries/makes me happy/disturbs me is that a year after signing joe johnson they are ready to move him. I hope they get that done before trading smith. I can think of a lot destinations where we could move him.

Rick Sund if you need some help let me know, I am down to be an assistant.

• Link
• Report this comment

RealSqawk, on Marvin and his shots…is it just about shots with Marvin?
To me its not…..Marvin needs to do other things better….do you see him ranked in the Top 30 with anyone? Anyone?

Its not because of Jamal or Woody or Drew…..its about Marvin! Marvin needs to rebound too and be a difference defensively.

• Link
• Report this comment

Okay, this is what needs to happen. Once there’s a new collective bargaining agreemet in place, the players that make up the Hawks core, need to seriously consider restructuring their contracts, ESPECIALLY Joe Johnson. There’s a precident for this. The Miami big three took less money so that they could have a viable chance to win a championship. To quote grandpa Witwicky, “there can be no victory without sacrifice.” What the Hawks big three, ESPECIALLY Joe Johnson needs to ask himself is, “is it better to break the bank and have a whole career of nothing special, or clear some salary cap room, add a really good player or two, make an honest to God run at the NBA finals, and still have enough money for five lifetimes? What’s greatness worth to you?

It’s time for the Hawks to stop talking about being a great team and be about it. Come on Atlantans let’s say it with me, DON’T SPEAK ABOUT IT BE ABOUT IT!

• Link
• Report this comment

Vava ,

Good point, but that’s Phil we’re talking about. Larry is not Phil.

The Hawks players lobbied for Drew to get the job, and Gearon, being the homer that he is, listened to them instead of letting the guy he paid to make such decisions (Sund) do it.

Do you see Joe listening to Larry? I don’t. But, it is what is for the forseeable future. I hope Larry can make it happen, because he is who we are stuck with.

I think it will help if we get rid of one or two of our most active “non-listeners”, or the culture won’t change at all, meaning the Hawks will continue to not play defense when they need to, not run the offense they are being asked to run, and not rebound and stay focused.

• Link
• Report this comment

From ajc.com;

According to a study by DraftExpress.com, only 3 percent of the 574 players selected in the second round of the draft from 1980 to 2001 became “star” players. Just 10 percent ended up as “solid starters,” 14 percent topped out as “marginal starters” and 19 percent became “solid bench” players.

Of those 574 players, 29 percent never played in an NBA game and 62 percent played in fewer than 100 games. The percentages are even worse for players selected outside of the first few picks of the second round. .

Ken S,

This is the reason why you should pump your brakes when it comes to Pape Sy. He was drafted 53rd, never played college ball here in the U.S., so we have no idea what to expect from him. All we have is 32 total minutes of NBA PT.

I’m not saying he can’t help, but to count on him being a solid rotational player for us is a bit premature.

• Link
• Report this comment

LOL @ when Sund was raving about how we got Earl Watson and some other scrub in the 2nd round when in Seattle. WHAT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT

• Link
• Report this comment

Ray,

He was the one that was brought back in hoping to reach the promise land(NBA Finals)..

I dont think JJ was brought back to help us reach the NBA finals. He was brought back because the ASG didnt want to take a step back in the East. So if the Hawks can win 50 games, and win 2 or 3 games in the second round continuously, I think the ASG will be thrilled.

James,

If the Hawks wanted to take a step back, then last offseason would have been the time to do it. They could have done a SNT for JJ to the Knicks or the Bulls, and after his “I dont care if fans show up” comments, some fans would have been ok with a short term step back.

I think the Bulls would have given up Hinrich, filler and pick for JJ, while the Knicks would have given up Eddy Curry’s expiring, and a couple of the players included in the Carmelo trade.

Maybe the Hawks would have been competing for 8th, but they would have more salary cap flexibility, another first round pick, and the team makeup would be different.

However, ownership decided to go “all-in” with giving JJ the contract they did. And after only 1 year, I think its too early to abandon ship.

• Link
• Report this comment

The above article on Josh Smith is from Yahoo.Sports

• Link
• Report this comment

Wojo from Yahoo is very reliable. This is probably true about Smoove

• Link
• Report this comment

Is there anyone excited about the future course of the Hawks? Sunds creates no confidence, LD creates no confidence, ASG creates no confidence.

• Link
• Report this comment

From the previous blog:

“To argue that [Lame Duck] is the worst coach in the NBA is rather absurd.” – Dark Karma

I was waiting for someone to step up and defend Lame Duck. Let’s look at your arguments:

1. “First, his team played above .500 basketball for the regular season. Second, his team won in a first round playoff matchup in which they were the underdog.”

First, this team had two All-Stars and a third that you could make an argument for. Should any team with that much talent finish below .500, bad coach or not? As for beating Orlando, we’ve already established that Otis Smith gutted their roster. Four seed vs. five seed doesn’t exactly make them huge underdogs.

2. “Third, to say he is the worst coach is to say that this team’s success was absolutely in spite of him.”

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. With a competent coach, they might have made it to the conference finals. As for your Clippers comparison, Lame Duck isn’t even in the same conversation as a coach with Vinny Del Negro. Comparison not valid in any case because that team is young and inexperienced.

3. “Exaggerating about the coach is agenda driven.”

I’m not exaggerating, but I do have an agenda, and that’s to show people that Lame Duck is the worst coach in the NBA and that the team would go farther with a competent coach like Dwayne Casey or Lawrence Frank. Let’s break down the CHI series shall we?

Game 1

The Hawks have their only game of the series where Joe and Jamal duplicate their hot shooting against the inferior defense of Orlando. It was impossible for Thibs to scout a Hawks team that featured Teague on the floor for 45 minutes because nobody had seen that. Lame Duck plays primarily a 6-man rotation with Crawford the only reserve to play more than 8 minutes. Zaza plays 8 minutes, scores 6 points and collects 5 rebounds, more than a rebound every two minutes. Hawks out-rebound CHI 38-37 and win 103-95.

Game 2

The first adjustment is Thibs’. After getting scorched for combined 20-for-34 shooting by Joe and Jamal in Game 1, Chicago double teams and limits them to a combined 9-for-25 from the field. Lame Duck does not adjust. He stays with the same 6-man rotation, Jamal plays 35 minutes, shoots 2-for-10, scores 11 points and collects zero rebounds. Zaza again plays 8 minutes (second among reserves), but this time collects only 2 rebounds and does not score. The Hawks are crushed 58-39 on the boards and lose 86-73.

Game 3

Once again, no adjustment by Lame Duck. Jamal leads reserves with 29 minutes, shoots 3-for-7, scores 7 points and collects two rebounds. Zaza is second among reserves with 9 minutes but scores only 1 point and collects only 1 rebound. The Hawks are again out-rebounded 47-34 and lose at home 99-82 at home to go down 2-1 in the series and surrender home court advantage back to the Bulls.

• Link
• Report this comment

Trojan, these guys are on the last year of their contracts. Sund, LD, and the ASG have to make moves to lower their salary obligations and to remain competitive in the East.
And if the Orlando interest in Josh is real, I make sure they overpay as Otis Smith is under the gun to keep Howard happy. Brandon Bass and draft picks would have to be part of any return package.

• Link
• Report this comment

It’s funny to me how GMs and owners operate in sports (especially basketball and baseball, since the contracts are guaranteed). They will sign a guy to a huge contract, and then one year later, they are trying to get rid of him.

And if they want to get rid of JJ this offseason, they wont get equal value in return.

I was ok with resigning JJ last summer, because I have no confidence in Rick and the ASG to make good decisions to reconstruct the team. And I feel the same way now. Although I am ok with Josh Smith being traded, I have no confidence that Rick will get a good deal.

• Link
• Report this comment

Josh has to understand that he is the leader, the catalyst, the motor for this team. When they don’t perform and he is the scapegoat isn’t a slight to Josh. It should be reassuring him that he has arrived as our leader…he’s just too emotional and immature to recognize that.

Hawks need a real leader…will the mature Josh Smith please stand up. They’re calling for you, not labelling you or accusing you. LEAD US!

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree Marvin’s issues are 100% on Marvin. He’s got to fight for a niche somewhere. I’d be perfectly happy to see him excel elsewhere, we’ve got plenty of evidence to prove he’s no more than a puppy on the porch here. We need some big dogs.

• Link
• Report this comment

If Hoston is really interested in Josh Smith, then what about trading him and P Sye or Williams or Zaza for their 14th and 23rd or 38th draft picks, Jordan Hill, and Thabeet. With the 14th pick in the draft select Nickola Vucevic (7′0″ center who plays defence and can score) or Donatas Motiejunas (7′0″ PF/C athletic and talented score but weak defensively) and with the 23rd pick select Chandler Parsons (6′10″ SF talented scorer and plays defense)if it’s the 38th pick then select either Malcom Thomas or Kyle Singler, if he drops that far, at SF. Then let Jamal carford walk and sign a FA SF like Anderi Kirilenko, Shane Battier, Tyshaun Prince, or Al Thorton. The starting line up would then be:
PG – Jeff Teague 6′2″
SG – Joe Johnson 6′7″
SF – Anderi Kirilenko 6′9″ or other FA
PF – Al Hoford 6′10″
C- Nickola Vucevic or Donatas Motiejunas

Bench
PG- Kirk Hinrich 6′4″
SG- Marvin Williams 6′9″ or Pape Sy 6′7″
SF- Chandler Parsons 6′10″, Kyle Singler 6′9″, or Malcom Thomas 6′9″
PF/C combination – Jordan Hill 6′10″, Zaza 6′11″, Thabeet 7′3″

Resign – D. Wilkens, Magnum Rolle and sign a shooting gaurd.

What do you all think?

• Link
• Report this comment

Buddy – I agree with your comments wholeheartedly. I’m no expert coach, but I did have the privilege of coaching (head) on a small college level for 3 years.

And LD from a distance was hands down the worst coach I had ever seen on any level from High School on up. And I ‘ve been following basketball since the late ’60’s.

Now in the playoffs, he stepped it up a notch, but a small notch. I will be shocked if he lasts much more than 20 games into the upcoming season. If he does, it will be because the 3 G rotation of Hinrich, Teague, and JJ is playing at such a level not even LD can mess it up. This of course assumes he plays Teague, which I still highly doubt unless forced to thru Sund not signing any one else to play or management telling him he has too. And it also assumes Josh, Al, and especially Marvin really worked on their games in the offseason, and we are clicking.

That’s the only way I see LD lasting much more than 20 games this season. And it is possible. But he has been a historically bad regular season Coach. And there almost has to be reasons behind the scenes as to why, because I can’t see a guy that incompetent even as an Asst. in the NBA if he is what he appears to be.

Good luck Dwayne Casey on your gig with the Raptors! You got a few nice pieces there in DeRozan, Calderon, and Bargnani. Much success, except against the Hawks!

• Link
• Report this comment

I have no idea what the fascination is with Thabeet, but if you want someone tall, who had a PER about 3x of Thabeets this past season, who is younger than Thabeet, and can be had for the vet min. possibly, sign Alexis Ajinca. He’s 7-2, 248, looks like he’s been hitting the weights hard, and has a much better game than Thabeet right now.

Forget Thabeet

• Link
• Report this comment

“If you want size, you would ignore someone like Joel Anthony, Paul Millsap or Dajuan Blair.”

ignoring height
……………
-Joel Anthony had good length but has his flaws undrafted.
-Dejuan Blair. steal and good weight and length but he has no ACLs
-MIlsap is always trying to be moved to small forward to accommodate big men like Al Jefferson and even Derrick Favors

• Link
• Report this comment

Buddy Grizzard, awesome stuff! You are mentally invested in this franchise. I gotta tell you the while Larry was a huge mistake because we just wasted another season of supporting this team.
Larry forced Josh’ perimeter game on us, he shoved Bibby down our throat and would never admit his incompetence and had a playoff run to save his hide, a la Woodson.
Saying that, there were worse coaches in the league…..and those coaches have been move out.
Would a Skiles have faired better? Perhaps, but to get this organization moving forward, you have to take risks. We have probably the lowest risk taker in the business in Sund.

• Link
• Report this comment

“And for anyone paying attention, Hinrich is not strong enough to take on the the full-time SG role for us.” – KevinM

Nor is he fast enough to take over as the full time point, although this is how I predict Lame Duck will deploy him for one final slap to Teague’s face. I think a three-guard lineup for the Hawks would be a disaster.

“Atlanta Hawks… are considered possible candidates for a move due to financial losses and a desire for a new arena.” – SteveW

Go ahead and gloat MC

It looks like a wire service report but the NY Post are still idiots for publishing that when the Phillips Arena bond agreement is going to keep the Hawks from going anywhere until like 2025. Way to go NY Post!

“The relationship has run its course.”

Saw that one coming. Since the season ended I have been saying on this blog that the most important task for the Atlanta Hawks is to understand that going forward the team needs to be built around Josh Smith. He should be the focal point of the offense and Joe Johnson should be transitioned into a supporting role (as MC said in the video).

The reason I said this is because the Hawks need to be focused on getting Josh his first All-Star appearance and making him happy so he will sign an extension. If he walks after two more seasons the Hawks will have to rebuild with Joe’s contract hanging around the franchise’s neck. They need to stop making Josh feel like a scapegoat and start making him feel like what he is… the franchise’s only hope.

“I saw some promise on Hilton’s game against ORL when he frustrated Howard. It seems that he learned from Collins better footwork and defensive positioning.” – Vava74

Co-sign.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m afraid Reggie may want more money than we’re willing to give. But if we can dump Marvin…..

• Link
• Report this comment

Buddy,

It’s not entirely LD’s fault. Keep in mind that LD said he would call plays for Josh to be in the post, but soomehow Josh would still end up on the perimeter.

And shouldn’t Josh be smart enough to realize as the season went along (and in the playoffs) that his shooting percentages from 17+ feet was on the decline, so cut down on the jumpers? But he continued to throw them up.

Didnt he realize there was a reason teams would leave him open on the perimeter?

• Link
• Report this comment

If Larry forced Josh to the perimeter, then Larry is a pathological liar. If you listen to his pre-season press conferences, and read his interviews, it was all about Josh living in the post. During the season, he spoke repeatedly of Josh’s need to get in the post. I’m not going to dig up the quotes etc, I have before, but it’s there to look at.

And in an article on trading Josh, it talks about Scola, Lee and a 1st pick, or Scola, Hill and a 1st pick. I understand we are beginning to get “scared” about losing Josh in Free Agency. But I don’t know if either of those scenarios make us a better team.

Scola is older, not a great rebounder or blocked shot presence. Lee or Hill have showed me nothing. Depends on the first pick I guess.

Now if the Nets want to send us Brook Lopez or DeRon Williams or somebody, I’m all ears. Brook is soft, but he is still learning the game.

Josh + Marvin for DeRon if Deron agrees to an extension with us? Tempting, very tempting.

Orlando – Bass, Anderson, Duhon and draft picks? Maybe, but I wouldn’t ever want to play against a frontline consisting of Dwight and Josh. Ever.

• Link
• Report this comment

A lineup of:

Dwight
Josh
Marvin
Hinrich
Teague

Could probably do some serious damage in this League. And Dwight is going to be a force in the League for at least 10 more years. The guy is a gymaholic

• Link
• Report this comment

That’s my thing SteveW we need to get Dwight Here don’t let him go to L.A I’m almost certain if Dwight gets to L.A J-smoove will follow. Imagine Kobe Bryant, J-smoove, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard combo plus a Chris Paul maybe at PG. That’s a scary line-up that sends chills through the body.

• Link
• Report this comment

Then again though being realistic Dwight already said he doesn’t like to be in the shadow of anyone. So that might not happen. To be real I honestly think the Dwight Sweepstakes is between Orlando, ATL(if they just try, and probably Dallas. In these places Dwight would be the star except in Dallas, but he won’t be behind Dirk, but then again the Dallas trade happens if their willing to get rid of B. haywood and Tyson.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ MC -Can you give us any info on Josh being traded. Apparently he has a short list of teams he would consider a trade to-Boston,Houston,Orlando,NJ.

The big teade scenario being Josh to the lakers for Odom/Shannon Brown

• Link
• Report this comment

If we are going to trade Josh we need size. Josh for Brook Lopez/Morrow/1st

Teague/Morrow/JJ/Horford/Lopez draft Klay Thompson Sign Chuck Hayes-at 6′7 he scored on us at will in the post

Bench-Heinrich/Sye/MArvin/Wilkins/ZAZA/Rolle

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW, those 2 all-stars we have? We might be seeing their all-star reign end this year…..you have Al moving to the 4, so he shouldn’t be looked at as a C.
Joe was not exactly consistent last year.

If you can get Dwight for 2 ‘marginal’ all-stars, you do that deal of course. And like I said earlier, if you put Dwight with Josh? You have a very good defensive backline. If we are going to offer Josh to ‘Otis my man’, then we better be ripping them off, because we are going to struggle against them….

Sy+Horford……heck of a tag……….asking for Bass and draft picks is not rebuilding…it is adding more pieces to our team than ORL can add to that team, and make us a deeper team, because we may have had the worse bench in the playoffs. So not a rebuild, its a re-org and adding multiple pieces for one player who played too much on the perimeter last year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hawks have to be crazy to trade josh.

• Link
• Report this comment

Im call my home boy about this josh smith trade rumor.

• Link
• Report this comment

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3m8zkfb

• Link
• Report this comment

Ajinca was a call Granddad and I made years ago. Still might be a good project, as is the other french center who surprised everyone for the Mavericks.

We’re not talking starting center here. Yes someone to take Etan’s slot who can hopefully improve or find a niche. Your 12th or 13th man at best. Hopefully the other slots will be filled with the quality you’re whining about.

• Link
• Report this comment

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3otmj6q

• Link
• Report this comment

IMUS, cp,

I am the first to acknowlegde that Hilton has an horrible rep and is a guy who never worked on his game and is a draft bust BUT:

During the ORL series Hilton showed a marked improvement following a bad first showing, frustrating Howard and making a pretty good emulation of Collins’ post defense.

He has the body and some skills to be a contributor and maybe he has finally matured and is ready to change is ways.

Long shot, but I would definitively invite him for training camp and would get Collins to work with him intensively.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m not bashing the man who called for Ajinca. Just the folks crying about how terrible Hilton is and how wonderful Thabeet is. Both are apathetic projects that might be a diamond in the rough if they could find the right situation. Long shot, but what else do we really have available?

• Link
• Report this comment

We need a true big man coach to work with our bigs in their post game, defense, rebounding, ect. Collins & Lambier would be a good teaching combo. Where’s Tree Rollins hiding?

• Link
• Report this comment

Dreams can come true…

I’ve always thought an Atlanta All Stars would be a compelling team to market. Georgia has produced alot of quality NBA talent over the years.

What about the old AAU dream team Dwight, Rondo, Josh…even bring Randolph back just for fun since we wouldn’t need him.

• Link
• Report this comment

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3erhglv

• Link
• Report this comment

anybody got the stat where Marvin is guarded by smaller 6′5 2 guard guys?
Pretty sure Malcolm Thomas and Williams would dominate Bibby/Chalmers whatever Miami’s backups are.

People need to start realizing its not all about starters. A lot of matchups come up in a game whether it be Josh playing the 4 and all of a sudden there’s a switch or Al wants to guard Boozer and Smith’s left guarding Noah.
or C.J. Watson versus Kirk Hinrich or Marvin Williams or Malcolm Thomas off the bench.

That’s why the Dwight Howard model has failed. The Magic have failed to surround him with anything but 3 point shooters and fail to put him in position to be a luxury instead of a necessity.

Dirk going 0 for 10 in the 1st half or what have you not and they were still beating the Heat. That’s the difference.
Orlando will most likely never win without playing Dwight with another PF-C. Ryan Anderson is not going to get it done. Might as well play Dwight at the 4 ala what we did with Horford and let him and the other center just attack attack and bum rush the rebounds.

• Link
• Report this comment

Do you think Sund would have enough heart not to send Josh to the Bucks after J-Smoove gave his rave review of WI.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I honestly hope there is no truth to the rumors you need to get rid of the guy that’s paid the most. He was the one that was brought back in hoping to reach the promise land(NBA Finals).

Honestly if you brake the bank on someone they should be the first person looked at and last just like what happened in the playoffs Joe vanished and his best excuse I kept getting double teamed. Josh and other players got doubled a lot, but I didn’t see them complain about it afterwards well Josh did, but he got back and kept trying to do his thing.

Not only that go back and look at the playoffs videos look at the parts where Josh exits the game and see what the hawks look like without him. I’m telling you whatever defense we had with Josh if we trade him that’s gone.”

I don’t disagree with any of this really, just passing along that information that Smoove is supposedly being shopped.

Like I have said many times before, I am not opposed to trading Smoove, but if they do, they better get back a player of equal caliber and someone who can replace his defensive impact. Replace him with a non-defender and this team will be rated in the 20s defensively next season.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Why does Josh Smith have a list of preferred teams for a trade? ”

Wojnarowski was quoting an anonymous insider in that article. This is more similar to you hanging out with your friends and talking about which women you think are fine, that friend anonymously passing the information on to TMZ saying those are the women for whom you’d leave your wife, and TMZ then republishing that information in the most uninteresting TMZ story ever (no offense). In other words, even if Smoove doesn’t have leverage to force a trade to a given place it doesn’t mean he couldn’t have told a friend at some point that hey, I’d rather play in Houston than Winnipeg.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Get me Reggie Evans to knock some sense into Diaper Al during practice and to get us 5-10 minutes of Rick-Mahorn-type toughness which is desperately needed now that we have Power-Puff-Diaper-Al instead of a Boss-Al.”

YES

Jamal for Reggie Evans + Barbosa was one of the all-expiring contract trades I had in mind at the trade deadline. Evans would be a perfect fit for this team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sund was Seattle’s GM when Evans played for them if I’m not mistaken. No excuse for him to not try to bring him in. He would plug one major hole for this team in the front court bench rotation.

• Link
• Report this comment

Al and JJ for Dwight – Do it! And if they insist on Marvin for Hedo, eat Hedo’s contract and still do it!

But only if Dwight agrees to an extension

Chicago is the only team I see that can realistically piece a viable offer together other than the Hawks:

Deng, Noah, Asik, 1st picks. A Boozer/Howard frontline, with Rose at the Point would be scary.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Najeh Reggie would plug more than a few holes….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv1cBN8M-9I

Unless we trade Hinrich for a small forward Barbosa would shift Marvin from the bench 2 to the bench small forward where’d he’d have to use his ballhandling to get around bigger forwards. No thanks.

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh,

I would have done a Jamal for Dalembert expiring trade too.

Steve W,

I think Garnett IS wahsed up. Ray Allen is ok, but he is a SG, and we already have JJ.

And there is no way Orlando trades within the division unless the Hawks overpay.

• Link
• Report this comment

Last offseason, I would have taken Mark Jackson, Avery Johnson or Dwayne Casey over LD.

Why? Because I wanted the team to have a new voice, a new leader who had no prior contact with the players. But the ASG wanted Uncle Larry. Mark and Dwayne will get their shot this year.

Good luck to both. Their teams are not as talented as the Hawks, but maybe they are better HCs than LD.

• Link
• Report this comment

Its looks like that JJ is on the trading block as well, something is up if they going to put those two up on the block that means they want to put all the eggs in the basket to get Dwight or CPIII(if we dangle Teague, but that is not going to happen) or just cleaning the plate for the next owners that comes.

• Link
• Report this comment

I was thinking this: Sign and trade Crawford w/ JJ, and ZaZa, to CHI for Deng, Noah, Brewer and whoever else to make it work. and Involve Orlando by trading them Horford, Brewer, and Noah for Dwight and whoever to make the money work. CHI gets offensive help for Rose, and their Head Coach should be able to teach JJ and Crawford a little team D. Orlando gets three players that their fan base recognizes to ease the pain of losing Howard, two of which are All-Star players.

• Link
• Report this comment

Boozer is D.Howard’s best friend.
[not Josh, even though some people would have you think]
Chicago [Rose] would like to have Joe.
The Bulls want to dump Boozer.
We wish to dump Joe.
Therefore;
Joe to Bulls for Boozer + Asik + picks
Then;
(Josh) -[or]- (Al) -[not both]- / + Marv + Asik…
for Dwight !

New core:
D.Howard / (Josh or Al) / Teague / Boozer

• Link
• Report this comment

Ah yes nba trade rumors thick in the air. Teague was very close to being traded at the deadline but is now untouchable…

With that said I like Horford and Duck for Varejao, pick 4 = Kanter.

Teague – 6-2 180
Joe – 6-8 240
Josh – 6-9 230
Kanter – 6-11 260
Varejao – 6-11 260

Beautiful.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dear MC,

Please please PLEASE get the AJC to keep comments open on your blog through the end of June. I just read Mark Bradley’s column on Dwight Howard where he says the Hawks may be out in the first round if they don’t re-sign Jamal. I need this blog open so I can limit my conversation to the true hoop heads. Bradley doesn’t know anything about basketball so naturally he attracts a similar crowd.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Reggie would plug more than a few holes….”

Haha I was waiting for someone to bring that up. That video has been in my Youtube favorites for like three years.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Would rather trade Joe or Josh and to fend off over explanation lets just say your getting equal VALUE in return?

For me its Joe”

Same here. Smoove is younger and has more good years left before he declines.

• Link
• Report this comment

I like the fact that Marvin scored 30 points per game when Joe was out but Drew easily could have put Marvin and Joe in and sat Teague against CHI.

Rose would have had to guard Joe or Marvin! Well at least we got to see Smith and more importantly Al for what they are.

Really ironic that Horford pushed for the bigger lineup and exposed his own weaknesses he’s had since college. Smith impressed in the post versus Deng and its embarassing that we had him as a stretch 4 with Woody and now Drew.

Smith is a POST SMALL FORWARD, DREW ARE YOU READING THIS?

• Link
• Report this comment

who’s suggesting drafting a guard? We move Williams to guard or we suffer another year of his inability to score.
Does anyone have the video of Williams repertoire being extremely limited?

He’s like a less coordinated Rudy Gay. arms too long and make him to slow but he can shoot over guards and draw fouls.

Draft Malcolm Thomas. Any guard we draft will have to deal with Marvin at the 3. Wasnt he scoreless in game 6? The Marvin as a 3-4 experiment is over. Give him the Joe Johnson treatment, 6′8 250 shooting guard and sit in the corner and shoot 3s.

@MC Does anyone have cut footage of Marv at the 2? Very excited if the Hawks get this done. This is how internal improvement works.

You identify weaknesses and make roster changes to correct them. No one is untouchable. The bench is deep.

• Link
• Report this comment

If Al man up and be the 3rd team ALL NBA Center he was honored as and back up the 4 spot we wouldnt have to think about trading Josh who showed more heart then Al when it mattered most. For those of you who want Al to play the 4 spot rember that’s the position he played in the playoff and he didnt look like ALL NBA to me hell he didnt even look like and All Star. Now i say keep you heart beat (Josh) put him back at the 4 where he was the runner up for Defensive player of the year the year b4 this one because he was closer to the paint. Let Smoove run and defend with Teague and add two player for one with a sign and trade for Jamal hell i wouldnt even mind giving Sorry a** Marvin a shot at being 6th man with Kirk starting at the 2. With the speed of Teague be honest people who would you rather be his wing man Pick and pop Al or Josh anyone agree or Dis agree or have a different opinion

• Link
• Report this comment

Can one of the stat guys please post Marvins numbers when Joe was out and when Jamal was out. The stories of his scoring when those guys were hurt is becoming those of a legend on here. I doubt his numbers were as good as some are making them out to be.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Can one of the stat guys please post Marvins numbers when Joe was out and when Jamal was out. The stories of his scoring when those guys were hurt is becoming those of a legend on here. I doubt his numbers were as good as some are making them out to be.”

I did that a few months ago. Marvin had some really good games and some really bad games with Joe out, just like he does with Joe around. The one thing Marvin did much better with Joe out was get to the free throw line, which he did about twice as often with no Joe.

• Link
• Report this comment

Trade Josh Smith, release Josh Smith, Give him away. Anything to get his bad attitude out of Atlanta. He is poision to the whole team. Always has been=always will be.

• Link
• Report this comment

Spurs get:
Josh Smith/Marvin Williams/Zaza Pachulia/Jeff Teague(hate to lose him)

Hawks get:
Tim Duncan/Tony Parker/Gary Neal(replaces Crawford)

Parker/JJ/FA(Battier)Horford/Duncan
Kirk/Neal/Wilkins/FA(Carl Landry)Collins

Hawks go for a ring(One more run at a title for Timmy and co.(Parker is expiring, and Duncan expires after next year)
Spurs start rebuilding process(Build around Smith and Teague)

• Link
• Report this comment

Smoove for Scola

Horford and Hinrich for Dwight

• Link
• Report this comment

LOL @ Josh being mad how he is always the scapegoat.

When you shoot jumpers all day and brick them, you deserve to be the scapegoat.

Plus the guy has spent all summer on Twitter since he got it

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh – thanks for responding to the survey question. I think you were the only who directly responded that I saw.

I still can’t tell the temperature of my fellow Hawks fans.

Joe or Josh who would you trade if you could get the same value for both?

• Link
• Report this comment

Real squawk,

I would trade Joe. As MC pointed out, despite his max contract, he wants no part of being “the man.”

Josh, on the other hand, is willing to embrace that role (imo). And sometimes, that is what gets him into trouble.

And as Najeh points out, Josh is only 26, while JJ is about to be on the wrong side of 30.

• Link
• Report this comment

“nteresting. Clearly, they have not been reading the hawks blog, because if they did, they would realize that Hawks should trade Horford for Motiejunas and filler.”

How dare you refer to the great future Hall of Famer Hasheem Thabeet as filler!

Now that you mention it, maybe Flavor Flav wants to combine Motiejunas and Thabeet into one player. If he could combine both of them, he would… uh… still have a scrub.

• Link
• Report this comment

Maaaannn I hope this Josh Smith trade 2 orlando is just a rumor…

Josh Smith+Kirk Hinrich to ORLANDO!!!!
Jameer Nelson+Danial Orton+Ryan Anderson+Draft Picks To atlanta

3rd team involved more details to come…They saying its a done deal, I sure hope not unless we gettin more than we know about..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHfVmIw1Hqw

• Link
• Report this comment

The Hawks PR Guy says it’s BS… hopefully he’s right.

• Link
• Report this comment

OBRIEN-Are you saying LDrew should continue giving Sy the Teague treatment and just ignore him because of the extremely limited mins he played last yr. Based on that, no rookie would ever get to play, since 32mins are more than anyone coming out of college has played on this level. Maybe you only saw him play 32mins, but I saw him play a couple of summer league as well as D-league gms.

Tell me, exactly how much does one need to see of a player to assess his willingness and ability to play DEF? There’s certainly no shortage of individuals who are convinced that certain 2nd rd college players with (0)zero experience will be successful. And I didn’t say he deserves regular playing time. I said his unique size/skill combination demands he be given an early chance to show what he can do.

We’ve frequently seen fans get excited over particular college or international players after watching short highlight clips. Your attitude towards Pape Sy is no different than the one LDrew and many fans had towards JTeague, which kept his anchored to the bench.

NAJEH-Like AHorford, Horace Grant had a very effective midrange jumpshot. And David Robinson also developed a very effective short range jumper. Offensively, Horford is more versatile than Josh, but Josh is more versatile defensively. With Howard in the middle, we wouldn’t need Josh’s shot blocking or help DEF as much as we do now.

While Josh is a far far better post up player than jump shooter, who would you rather have posting up, Josh or Dwight? When teams double or triple team Dwight and he passes out, who would you rather have taking that outside shot, Al or Josh? I still say Horford is a better fit with Howard than Josh.

• Link
• Report this comment

iTS OFFICAL, THE HAWKS HAVE TRADED JOSH SMITH!

• Link
• Report this comment

It was not a bad pick

June 21st, 2011
9:40 pm
iTS OFFICAL, THE HAWKS HAVE TRADED JOSH SMITH!

Yeaaaah, right. Call me back when they trade Marvin…

• Link
• Report this comment

Brigadierjerry,

Ok, but how reliable is that? Not that I’m saying it wouldn’t come from somewhere other than the AJC first…seen that before…

• Link
• Report this comment

So if this trade happens I thought we were supposed to get talent back for Smith, out of all those people I see Jameer Nelson who will be injured and just take up Teague’s minutes.

If this trade goes through it will be a stab in the Atlanta fanbase heart that this was all we could get for Smoove and whoever called it the Library is exactly what it will be next season…

• Link
• Report this comment

Noam Schiller, Hardwood Paroxysm: Chandler Parsons and Toni Kukoc. This is obviously a huge stretch — Parsons will never be anywhere near the player Kukoc was. But I can see Parsons thriving in the NBA in a similar role — heady point forward who comes off the bench, runs a little offense, and does a little bit of everything. He’ll be a second-round steal.

Motiejunas 16.9PPG/36min 5.6REB/36min Italian league- men league
Motiejunas 14.4PPG/36min 7.4REB/36min EUROCUP- men league
……….
Bargnani 18.0PPG/36min 5.8REB/36min NBA- men league
Toni Kukoc 15.9PTS/36min 5.8REB/36min NBA- men league
Nowitzki 17.6PTS/36 min 6.5REB/36min NBA- men league (2nd year at 240lb
Rasheed Wal. 15.9PTS/36 min 7.3REB/36min NBA- men league
Parsons 11.6PTS/36min 8.3REB/36min NCAA-college kids

Robert Silverman, Knickerblogger: It’s got to be the Jimmer Fredette/[insert Caucasian who can shoot here] comparisons. He’s not J.J. Redick or Steve Kerr. Jimmer is a better athlete than he’s given credit for and his game/skill set reminds me more of Ben Gordon than the pale-skinned folks he’s usually lumped in with.

this sh*”t is a joke. Double frikkin Standards

• Link
• Report this comment

If that Orlando trade is true it really wouldn’t surprise me. An organization that would give a guy that don’t want to be “the man” and isn’t “the man” $120M+, would actually do this deal. They would actually trade their best talent on the team to a team within their division, making that team incredible and making their own team worse!

Only the ASG, only Sund, only in Atlanta.

• Link
• Report this comment

Trade doesnt sound like it is going to happen but sounds like Josh Smih might be in works for Boston. who knows

http://twitter.com/#!/NBASource1

• Link
• Report this comment

any one who still has Tim Duncan as an impact starter is practicing idolatry.

Everyone drops 40 on Duncan. He’s too slow on defense and more importantly offense.

Kudos to Popovich and Ginobili for winning 60 games but when it comes down to it Duncan has seen to many battles.
Duncan: 30 mpg? those are center minutes.

• Link
• Report this comment

From the trade posted above we’d have
Nelson/Teague
Johnson/Roddy/Sy
?
Horford/Anderson
ZaZa/Orton/Haywood

Who’s the SF?

• Link
• Report this comment

seems trade is bogus according to hawks pr person

http://twitter.com/#!/HawksPRGuy/status/83340019091255296Default

• Link
• Report this comment

If you want to torture yourself for a while, Peachtree Hoops is doing an ongoing series recapping past drafts for the Hawks.

Somehow the Hawks’ draft history might actually be even worse than Rick Sund’s draft history.

• Link
• Report this comment

MC thinks Horford can become a superstar play.

Horford put up atrocious numbers against an awful defender with turf toe in the 2nd round. He didn’t even foul him hard once

No thanks

• Link
• Report this comment

The lady who reported the trade is a legit sports writer. She says it has not been completed yet. The Hawks PR guy says disregard. If the trade turns out to be true:

One last slap at Teague, with Jameer and Beaubois coming in.

Sund really did like Orton last draft – said it was between he, D Jones and Jordan Crawford at #27

We would have no SF unless they plan on playing Anderson there.

But the trade is probably not true, so a moot point most likely….

• Link
• Report this comment

LOL! If you believe all those trades, dont. You could obviously tell he just made the twitter account and he’s saying on thursday that deal will happen when rick sund is playing a waiting game until the CBA is set. LOL PLEASE!

• Link
• Report this comment

IN THOSE BS RUMORS, DALLAS WOULD TRADE US BEAUBOIS AND HAYWOOD FOR MARVIN

SCREW THE REST OF THE TRADE. LET THEM KEEP RODRIQUE

MARVIN FOR HAYWOOD YESTERDAY

HELL, THROW IN OUR SH!TTY 2ND ROUNDERS LIKE GLADYR.

READ TODAY’S AJC ARTICLE WITH ALL OF SUND’S 2ND ROUND PICKS IN THE PAST. DUDE THINKS GETTING EARL WATSON IS SOME MILESTONE

• Link
• Report this comment

“Can I ask a dumb question in relation to a potential Josh deal with Boston? Why would anyone agree to any deal with Boston or the Lakers? They have literally all the league’s championships by a wide margin and in no way would I give them a chance to be a force in theircdivision. I would keep them at arms length and let them grow old and become a non-factor”

contender?

Kyle Lowry: Goran Drajic
Kevin Martin: Courtney Lee
Chase Budinger: Terrence Williams
Luis Scola: Patrick Patterson
Al Horford: Brad Miller

Kyle Lowry : Kevin Martin : Chase Budinger : Luis Scola : Al Horford
Courtney Lee : Goran Dragic : Terrence Williams : Patrick Patterson : Brad Miller (recovering microfracture 35 years old until January)
Chase Budinger $780,871 $884,293 $942,293

Chuck Hayes unsigned

• Link
• Report this comment

Well if the phantom trade, which is now being called dead, which was probably never alive, were to happen, we would save about 6 or 7m this season, just enough to sign Jamal. Hmmm…..

And the report was we receive the Mavs 26th pick as well, so the lineup would have been:

C – Haywood/ZaZa
PF – Al/Anderson/Rolle
SF – JJ/Sy/Wilkens?
SG – Jamal/Teague
PG – Jameer/Beaubois

Can you win a championship with that roster? Probably not. But since “where all jumpshooters now”, that is def. a jump shooting lineup and bench.

Boy, this Josh talk is really heating up – Raptors, Nets, Celts, Lakers, Rockets etc.

We probably keep Josh. But I’m sure Otis wants him in Orlando or he’s toast when Dwight bolts. Josh may be the one guy that could keep Dwight in Orlando.

And Orlando would love that trade – Orlando blogs calling it the best trade ever for them.

Front court: Howard/Josh/Bass rotation. Scary.

One Orlando (columnist? I think so) called that the best defensive 5 -4 combo of all time!

Hedo at the 3

Arenas/Hinrich/Duhon at PG

Reddick/Q Richardson at the 2

Pretty solid lineup if you ask me.

But let’s just say we probably keep Josh.

• Link
• Report this comment

Flavor Flav, the fact that you are arguing against my fake Rick Sund tweets as if they are serious only makes your already insane trade idea even funnier.

• Link
• Report this comment

I hope Atl know that if that trade happened, CPaul or Steve Nash would be only 2-3 months away from joining the Magic via trade. With a line up like that you would only need a 2-3 who can shoot lights out and create shots. I remember years ago Gilbert saying how much he would love to play with Josh. That deal happens, and I have to subscribe to League Pass. Because I would find it very hard to be as passionate about Hawks basketball when they’ve just traded their biggest impact player on the defensive end for 3/4 players who weaknesses are on the defensive end. That’s saying forget the defense we’re going to just play horse for 82 games and see what happens.

• Link
• Report this comment

If Donatas is there at 14 we trade Al Horford,

PLaYOFFS we talkin bout Playoffs??
We lose a playoff career 10 and 11 power forward -center

We gain a 7 and 6 center, a projected 16 & 8 PLAYOFF post up pick and pop power forward with more point guard handle on the break than sadly Al will ever have.

a 6 and 4 power forward-center, AND a 6′9 cornerman to play with Marvin and Kirk in the B-Team backcourt.
:::::::::::::::
starters TEAM: Teague : Johnson : Smith : Motiejunas : Thabeet
bench TEAM: Hinrich : M.Williams : Malcolm Thomas: J.Hill : Pachulia

• Link
• Report this comment

“A DHoward trade would work salary wise if we traded JSmith…” – Ken S.

Hold up right there sir. Probably the only chance we have to ever see DH in a Hawks uniform is if he decides to come home to Atlanta and compete for a championship on the same roster with his childhood friend Josh. Josh’s best man coming to Atlanta also might be the only way we keep Josh. That story says Orlando is one of Josh’s preferred destinations, but Orlando has no assets, only liabilities, thanks to the work of the worst GM in the NBA, Otis Smith.

Therefore Josh isn’t going to Orlando. If they want to play together, they have to do it here. Atlanta, in the meantime, has assets it can send out for Dwight. If we trade All-NBA Al and Joe Johnson for Dwight and Arenas, we’re giving them two All-Stars for one and taking their worst contract off their hands. That is the best offer Orlando is likely to get. They may hate trading Dwight to a division rival, but if Dwight goes to Otis and says make it happen or I walk as a free agent, it will happen. Can the Hawks contend with:

C: Dwight Howard
PF: Josh Smith
SF: Marvin Williams
SG: Kirk Hinrich
PG: Jeff Teague

?

• Link
• Report this comment

Why would you trade the player who apparently is the emotional center of our team to a divisional rival?

• Link
• Report this comment

Enter your comments here

• Link
• Report this comment

Because the ASG are idiots that’s why they would trade J-smoove to a division rival.

Honestly just look at Josh when he’s playing the opposing team respects him on both sides of the court except when he’s taking the jumpers, but I bet in about 2 more years working on that jumper J-smoove will be well respected.

Still J-smoove for Ryan Anderson, Jammer, and another G WHY! when you already have Teague the guy could be the next big thing, but the idiot ASG always and forever doing something to F it up.

If you’re trading Josh you get someone like Dwight Howard back in return even though I don’t suggest doing that cause the only way Dwight stays here is if J-smoove is here trade away Joe Johnson to Chicago for their picks and some players like Brewer and Deng.

• Link
• Report this comment

We gain a 7 and 6 center, a projected 16 & 8 PLAYOFF post up pick and pop power forward with more point guard handle on the break than sadly Al will ever have..

I’m confused. How do you project what a player will do in the playoffs?

And wasn’t Marvin Williams “projected” to be a star? How about Kwame Brown? Michael Olowakandi? Shawn Bradley? Even your boy Thabeet. What have they done in the NBA?

• Link
• Report this comment

IMO, what made that rumored deal acceptable, and unbelievable, was Dallas’s invovement. Getting rid of Marv, getting back Haywood, Roddy B, and a draft pick!!! That would be the amazing trade. Do that half and keep Smoove. Don’t try to discount Roddy’s talent because he was hurt this year. I’ll bet if you took a poll, he gets chosen as the better prospect over Teague.

• Link
• Report this comment

The phantom trade breaks down like this:

Marvin for Haywood

Hinrich for Jameer

Josh for Anderson, Orton, Beaubois, and the #26 pick, and possibly Jamal, because we would then have the money freed up from the trade to re-sign him. Interesting.

Somewhere in the back of my head, I still think we can get a little more for Josh than that. I could be wrong, but that’s just my thinking.

• Link
• Report this comment

My last rant=my continuing disdain for anything Rick Sund…….looking forward to somewhere down the line when we have ourselves a legit GM/coach/ leadership.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Hawks are doomed for mediocrity as long as ASG
and Sund are in place. That’s the ugly truth! The Hawks
need a ligitimate superstar to make it to the next level.
No superstar will be willing to come here as long as
Sund and ASG are in place.

• Link
• Report this comment

KevinM,

I think the only move Dallas will make is to try and trade Haywood (4 years, $34 mil) so they can resign Chandler. Would you trade Marvin (3 years, $23 mil) for Haywood?

That way, Dallas would not have to resign Caron Butler, since he is coming off an injury, and they won the champhionship despite him not playing since January.

AJ,

This season will be interesting, especially with the new CBA. Does N.O. trade CP3, Does NJ trade Deron, does Orlando trade Dwight? Or will they go the Cavs route and let the players go to FA and hope to resign them?

• Link
• Report this comment

My bad…am I reading that right? Parker is a free agent?

• Link
• Report this comment

Correct me if I am wrong…the Spurs ‘have’ to move Parker before the CBA expires because he will be out of a contract.

Can someone explain why this is different than Jamal and his deal completing this month? I don’t hear anyone suggesting Jamal to another team despite being the #1 SG available in FA? Is Sund just that much more out of touch than RC Buford?

• Link
• Report this comment

So now we hear Nash is available? Is Sund just that much out of touch that he can’t even put together a package involving one of our Js?

Trying to wake Sund up before its too late to make a deal of any type.

• Link
• Report this comment

About Marvin to the Mavs. They may be thinking that with Marion getting really old, Caron Butler getting old and injured, and a FA to boot, that getting Marvin for a really bad contract may not be such a stretch.

Consider:

Haywood will be making near 10 m per year when he’s 36

And Marvin, with a real Coach, lot’s of vets like Dirk, Jet, Matrix, Kidd to get in his head, may turn into something – at least an average to above average serviceable player.

You never know.

• Link
• Report this comment

Please don’t trade josh

buddy’s right

only hawk with a pair

• Link
• Report this comment

And I think Jason Richardson is the top FA SG, not Jamal. I would think Jamal is probably second though. Haven’t perused the list of available FA’s lately.

• Link
• Report this comment

And from that link its stated that Josh “wants” out of Atlanta.

News to me.

• Link
• Report this comment

i would like us to keep our core. if we have arguabley the worst head coach in the nba and made it to the east conf semi and won two games imagine how far we’d go if we had the 15th best coach in the league. we have two allstars and one who should be an allstar but he doeant play C(josh). our core plus an emerging great young player (teague) and a smart unselfish vet kirk, we have a good team here in atl. yes we need parts but who doesent besides dal mia okc? we are one/two new pieces away from playin the heat in the ecf.
*now as for our draft, i will be wqtchin every pick and cant wait for #18 and #48. i still like the hinrich deal cuz i dont think we beat orl with bibby and jc2. i do hope we can get keith benson at #48 and start our teague joe josh al zaza lineup and have a nice bench led by kirk. benaon would get good minutes relieving zaza and al at 4 and 5. other than him idk who else could actually get some pt, but who we select will be very telling of our upcoming season

• Link
• Report this comment

hawksfancents95: Good points. With a couple of pieces, we could be very good next year. Our defense will be much better with Teague and Hinrich. We need toughness and a wing shooter and we will be good enough to play with anyone.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mr Grizzard My Friend:

I do not wish to enter the debate between yourself & Big Ray,
however, I must at the very least address a couple of your
notions about LD; r e lameduck, etc.

(1) whether or not LD’s a lame duck ?
I don’t know – but I do know the Hawks are a lame franchise.
[awaiting sale]…(a real fixer upper)

(2) LD’s not the worst coach ever…or whatever ?
Have you forgotten Woodson already,
or just tried to wipe him from your memory.
Currently, I would prefer LD over Rambis or Westphal,
just off the top of my head.

(3) Nothing against SteveW…..
He’s a great guy and very knowledgeable.
But my 30 years of coaching qualifies me as the more veteran.
I didn’t say smarter !
Just older !

(4) Even though # 3 is true,
yawl know I don’t take myself all that seriously.

• Link
• Report this comment

Josh Smith to Timberwolves for #2 pick? Take Williams from Arizona.

• Link
• Report this comment

I hope the Hawks are not stupid enough to trade Josh within their division especially to a team like Orlando that doesnt have quality piece to send back.

• Link
• Report this comment

Melvin

Remember Nique for Manny 94

Smitty for Rider 98

Deke for Ratliff

Mookie for whoever

Williams instead of CP3

You get the picture. Lol.

• Link
• Report this comment

After cruising the net looking for info on JSmith, it looks like the Hawks, as well as Josh, are willing to part company, although he hasn’t asked for a trade. One trade proposal that I came across seemed very interesting. It proposed trading Josh to New Jersey for BLopez and TOutlaw. The trade works if the Hawks use both of its trade exceptions and the Nets use one of theirs.

While Outlaw isn’t an upgrade over Marvin, he’d certainly add depth. A lineup of:
OC-BLopez-ZPachulia-Rolle-JCollins and/or HArmstrong
PF-AHorford-MWilliams
SF-JJohnson-TOutlaw
SG-KHinrich-draft pick
PG-JTeague-FA and/or Pape Sy

It said the motivation for the Nets would be them moving to their new home in Brooklyn and their owner wanting to make a big splash. And having a dynamic duo of PF JSmith and PG DWilliams would be an exciting, fan pleasing, fastbreaking nightmare for most teams, and would definitely make a splash.

OBRIEN-With what we saw of LDrew’s mishandling of JTeague last yr, I would be foolish to believe we’ll see much of Pape Sy. The only way we’re going to get anything out of our draft picks is to :
1-trade them away, which we’ve already done,
2-replace LDrew with someone who’s willing or able
3-draft more mature NBA ready players like AHorford.

And until the ASG stops handcuffing our GM’s and allows them to do their job, and make all personell decision, it will very difficult for us to replace Drew with someone decidedly more competent.

I also read an article suggesting how the Hawks would be wise to try and sign SDalembert. The article said he’s a strong defender, rebounder and shotblocker that has never played on a team with adequate support personell. And coming to a winning team with Atlanta’s talent just might energize him enough to become the double digit rebounder and scorer he was in Philly.

I hope the Hawks don’t resign Jamal Crawford. I really like him and love to see him play, but I don’t like him as a Hawk. For him to be effective as a consistent scorer, he has to employ his ISO style of play and control the ball, This is very exciting, but it goes against LDrews motion OFF concept. He’s actually more disruptive to the OFF than JJ with his ISO’s. At least JJ can post up and score inside.

I believe JSmith’s trade value is very high because most NBA coaches and GM’s know he’s been the victim of inadequate coaching and development.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Now, if you could get Jameer/Orton(who someone called garbage earlier…credibility lost immediately on that comment alone) and a draft pick for Josh,…”

Orton has yet to play a game and Jameer Nelson is a 6′0 combo guard who will be 30 next season (time flies).
Orton is shorter than Al and Kevin Love and has a worse vertical than Kevin Love and has yet to play an NBA game.

weaknesses: – All-around offensive polish
- Left hand
- Perimeter defense
- Attitude?
- Experience
- Not ready to contribute immediately
- Bad knees?
- Relatively unproven
- Free throw shooting

And the draft pick will be a late rounder! John Henson anybody?

• Link
• Report this comment

KevinM, I’m pretty sure that Tony Parker signed an extension with the Spurs during the season… so he is NOT a free agent in July. Jamal can be traded before June 30 but it is highly unlikely that a team would trade for him when he could turn around and leave them weeks later. He could be signed to an extension in the next week or so, but why sign someone if you’re not sure what impact it wil have on the salary cap?

Overall, this team won a whopping 44 regular season games and while they “lost better” in the playoffs than previous years, there is very little rationale to sugges that we need to stay status quo. And thinking of trading the lesser guaranteed contracts on the roster (e.g. Marvin & Zaza) will not do much to provide the kind of impactful player we need. The last few times we “stole” a player, it was because the sending team no longer wanted that player (i.e. Bibby & Jamal). I’d also suggest that any trade scenario that has us acquiring another team’s only quality center is probably not worth the strokes on the keyboard.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Our defense will be much better with Teague and Hinrich. We need toughness and a wing shooter and we will be good enough to play with anyone.”

Who can Hinrich guard that Joe Johnson can’t?

Shawn Marion – Lebron defender
Bruce Bowen – Lebron defender
Tayshaun Prince – Kobe DEFender

Jeff Teague + Kirk Hinrich attack Bibby, Chalmers
Joe Johnson + Marvin Williams attack Wade
Josh Smith + Malcolm Thomas attack Lebron
Donatas + Jordan Hill attack Bosh
Hasheem + Pachulia Joel Anthony, Dalembert??

EVERY backup can score from every position in the paint outside. 4ppg in ROLE player minutes (12 mpg except for center where minutes are split 3 maybe ways).
How many teams with superstars/All Stars can do that??

none. ADVANTAGE= Hawks
::::::
DEFINITE roles= success

• Link
• Report this comment

revisiting Bibby:

The Kings have reached an agreement in principle to send 30 year old guard Mike Bibby to the Atlanta Hawks for guards (33yo) Anthony Johnson and Tyronn Lue (31) and forwards Lorenzen Wright (32, r.i.p.) and Sheldon Williams, sources told The Bee on Saturday.
The deal is contingent upon league approval that could come as early as today. According to sources who did not want to be identified because of ongoing trade discussions, there is a 1 p.m. conference call scheduled between the two teams and league officials.
When reached Saturday morning, Bibby said he was a bit surprised to hear Atlanta was the destination, but not that he was going to be traded.
“I had some good times here in Sacramento,” said Bibby, who became known with the Kings as one of the league’s better clutch shot-makers. “Sometimes you need a change and you never know where that might take you. I just prayed and asked for what might be the best for my family and this is what happened, so you can’t question it.
The reasons behind the deal for the Kings and the Hawks are clear and different. Atlanta is a young team attempting to make the playoffs for the first time since the 1998-99 season. Sacramento, meanwhile, is trying to clear salary cap space to become a player on the free-agency market as well as increasing its ability to make trades. Each of the players acquired by the Kings has an expiring contract.

Atlanta makes its only visit to Sacramento on Wednesday, and starting for the Hawks in his first game, conceivably, could be Bibby. His expected departure removes the final piece from the Kings core that consistently challenged to make the NBA Finals during the first half of this decade, but never could get over the hump.
………….

Are we the next Sacramento Kings and do we hold onto the thought that we ‘just need more shooters from everywhere’ or do we go with defense rebounding and low post scoring from sf+sg+pf
and shooting to the 1s and 2s?

Do we pursue Dwight and give up all our depth at other positions so we can become New York (swept) or Orlando (1st round exit)?

Or do we give Smith away and let Lebron run wild on a Marvin Kaman Horford frontcourt

or give Johnson away and get mad when Dallas repeats and Haywood gets injured/ can’t play starter minutes and we get mad when Josh shoots jumpers as a 4 and looks winded come playoffs?

or get disappointed when we figure out that Al is a nice guy but we kept him too long ala SacTown and Bibby?

• Link
• Report this comment

4 years in NBA @ 23 yo 5ppg 9rpg 1.3bpg

Sixers’ Draft 2010: Bust Factor – Guards vs. Non-guards 1998:
1. Michael Olowokandi – non-guard [BUST]
2. Mike Bibby – guard
3. Raef LaFrentz – non-guard
4. Antawn Jamsion – non-guard [BUST]
5. Vince Carter – non-guard
1999:
1. Elton Brand – non-guard
2. Steve Francis – guard
3. Baron Davis – guard
4. Lamar Odom – non-guard
5. Jonathan Bender – non-guard (BUST)
2000:
1. Kenyon Martin – non-guard
2. Stromile Swift – non-guard (BUST)
3. Darius Miles – non-guard (BUST)
4. Marcus Fizer – non-guard (BUST)
5. Mike Miller – guard
2001:

1. Kwame Brown – non-guard (BUST)
2. Tyson Chandler – non-guard (BUST)(BUST)(BUST)
3. Pau Gasol – non-guard
4. Eddy Curry – non-guard (BUST)
5. Jason Richardson – guard

• Link
• Report this comment

TRADING SY + HORFORD-You obviously have an obsession with height. I’ll bet you’d have to wear Depends Under garments if you could realize your fantasy of having a sorry A$$ 7′6″ Thabeet standing next to Montiejunas, a younger 7′ version of MBibby.

Unless we can trade JSmith for a rebounding eraser to man the middle, I still say we should hold onto what we’ve got and strengthen our bench. However, since the Hawks appear determined to trade Josh, and josh is about ready to leave, I guess we’ll have to deal with that. I wonder how much input LDrew’s had in deciding enough is enough with Josh?

The only 2 proven starting caliber centers that I see are potentially available to us are Brook Lopez, who we’d have to trade for, and SDalembert, who we’d have to sign as a FA. While Lopez’ forte is scoring, he’s not a great rebounder or defender for his size. Dalembert isn’t much of a scorer, but he’s an excellent rebounder and defender.

He’d definitely replace the rebounding, shot blocking and help DEF Josh brings to the table. With Josh gone, and with neither Hinrich nor Dalembert being big scorers, Marvin would definitely move up as a scoring option.

• Link
• Report this comment

All those Al negatives, yet, somehow, he brings in 5/60M for those inadequacies….I think we need to know what other GMs think of him. I bet 3/4 of them would love to have him on their roster at that salary.

We are in a tough spot to move one of the captains..they all have negatives, and they all have positives. Which ones can you go further with?

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m with RealSquawk on this one also this is the main reason I don’t want Jamal Crawford here either.
Him and Joe are basically the same player except one can score better than the other and one doesn’t have a defense to save his life.

Both rely on ISO situations to get them going which in turn mess up Horford and Josh plus the rest of the team.

Everyone is so quick to blame Josh, but the sadder part of the story is during the second round of the playoffs again after Joe and Jamal went off then disappeared it seemed the only one worth looking at was Josh and Teague of course.

• Link
• Report this comment

Buddy Grizzard ,

Don’t troll me brew

Is that a misspelling, or am I missing the meaning?

But you keep acting like this is emotional for me. You use words like “hate” and “angry,” but the fact is that I broke down Drew’s coaching performance in the CHI series with cold, clinical analysis that was well-received by my blog homies. I even invited challenges to my argument that he’s the worst coach in the NBA. John Kuester anybody? No doubt he got himself fired because of his lack of interpersonal skills, but LD isn’t much better in that area. I’d have to crunch some X’s and O’s to challenge that retort, if anyone had cared to offer it.

Ok, let me break THIS down:

1. I’m not opposing your view on Drew. I’m saying you’ve got a bad case of tunnel vision. A REALLY bad case. You “coldly” break down Drew’s performance in a single playoff series. Good work. You just identified a symptom of a disease. But do you know what the disease is? Can’t cure it until you do…

Answer me this:

What kind of organization ignores every veteran coach candidate it could potentially hire and instead gives the former coach’s top assistant the job, then pays him the League’s lowest salary, and expects significantly better results than those of his predecessor. Do you recall what Rick Sund said after they chose not to give Mike Woodson a new contract? I do. He said that the Hawks needed to “hear a different voice.”

Oh, really…so how is the same guy who has been on that team’s bench for the last six years a “different voice?” See where I’m going with this?

So no, he’s not a lame duck coach. He’s just the guy they wanted. A lame duck coach is a guy that got the job in good faith, then failed miserably and is gone the minute his organization has identified a replacement.

So answer me this as well: Are the Hawks viewing this past season/post-season as a failure of any kind? And if so, are they also talking about replacing the coach? I have yet to see any evidence to support this. Keep following me here…

2. I can tell you what the difference is between Kuester and Drew very easily. The Hawks lobbied for Drew to be the coach (just ask the people who like to sell you Hawks season tickets, even they know this). Kuester’s players lobbied against him. Period.

I’m glad your blog homies are happy with your Larry Drew analysis. What I’ve been trying to tell you all this time is that your “cold, clinical analysis” describes a symptom quite very well. But it does not identify the disease.

It was never a good idea OR the best idea to promote Drew. We needed a veteran head coach. We did not get one. And we passed on some guys that I think would have worked out for us. My vote was for Dwayne Casey from the beginning. But why not take a flyer on a guy like Avery Johnson, who had been all the way to the NBA Finals? The man is a disciplinarian, something needed around here very badly. What about Drew set him apart, much less above guys like this?

Drew did not promote himself. Sund promoted him. He did so at the behest of the A…S…G…Come on, man. Surely a cold and analytical thinker knows this.

Joe Johnson “choke fest” you say…and I don’t disagree. But who gave this dude the wealthiest contract in the NBA?

Who gives a RIP whether or not Larry Drew is the worst coach in the NBA when the REAL problem is who promoted him, and who ain’t gonna fire him until failure is utter and complete????! Seriously!

I’m not arguing your point. I’m saying it’s pretty much irrelevant and moot if management and ownership is going to keep doing things the way they are now. Is Sund a lame duck GM? He may as well be…he signed an even shorter contract than Drew did! One freakin’ year! Hellooooooo….

• Link
• Report this comment

Domino, Elton may be a better post up than Al, but he also commands a bigger payday. Is he 3-4M better than Al? I don’t think so as I don’t see Elton heading back to any all-star games and being recognized as one of the top PFs. You don’t think Philly would like to dump that contract? I can say that I think David West and Al equal talents. The issues with Al as of today is that he doesn’t provide as much value on a return since he just signed his deal.
I think Al has a better value than Brand, Garnett, and even Amare. Amare won’t make it much longer….he plays big minutes and like Al, he wants help on the inside. I can’t blame either player…they are both getting pounded on the inside night in night out.
So we have 3 captains with plusses and minuses, and it has been determined through their own playoff performances that none of them can lead us to the next level. Joe has the most talent, Josh has the most potential, and Al is the one that is supposed to provide the consistency.
So no matter what Sund does or doesn’t do, these 3 have found their limits as the leaders of this team. For someone to come in here and lead, it will take an outgoing personality and one who really won’t have a lot of weight on their shoulders to be a leader. Our city loves its leaders and is not near as harsh on them as other cities.

Josh should quit worrying about being blamed and just go out and perform and the fans will be behind him. Joe needs to figure out a way to perform, and Al simply needs to improve his strengths.

I would love to hear we could trade 2 of them to get a big time performer, but that isn’t going to happen. We couldn’t get Durant, nor Rose, nor LeBron or Wade. This city has to develop one and the draft is our only way to get a superstar here.

Problem is Sund doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t know how, and if you have seen how happy he is with Billy Knight’s draft picks and roster, you dont’ want him picking for us anyway.

Just watching the 2000 draft, the LeBron draft, and the Hawks have no coach, no new owner as McDavid’s negotiation window ‘alledgedly’ expired, and we bring in Boris Diaw…the response from the crowd was silence. Only our scouting team knew enough about Boris the PG. Who was picked behind Travis? No one to brag about …..Kendrick Perkins, Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa…so I guess we didn’t blow it as much as I recall at the time…after all, it got us our SG for the next decade.
Boris Diaw, the only pro I have ever seen a coach that had to tell him to shoot the ball…Woody had him scared to death.

• Link
• Report this comment

@JuliusCesaer

“JOSH “SMOOTH” SMITH”

Hi, how’s it going sir?

I’d like to ask you if you see anything wrong in those quotations?

• Link
• Report this comment

The blog and MC are just hilarious to me.

I’ll agree that I didn’t like JJ’s quote about not taking the blame, because he doesn’t get much of the glory. But you know what? He has a point. A damn good point.

Playoff averages ( +/- difference between season average )

JOHNSON

18.8 ppg . . ( +0.6 )
4.6 rebs . . ( +0.6 )
3.3 asst . . ( -1.4 )

43.9 FG% . . ( -.0.4 )
42.9 3FG% . . ( +13.2 )
81.0 FT% . . ( -0.8 )

**********************

JOSH SMITH

15.1 ppg . . ( -1.4 )
8.5 rebs . . ( 0.0 )
2.9 asst . . ( +0.4 )

40.4 FG% . . ( -7.3 )
12.5 3FG% . . ( -20.6 )
59.7 FT% . . ( -12.8 )

**************************

AL HORFORD

11.3 ppg . . ( +4.0 )
9.6 rebs . . ( +0.3 )
3.5 asst . . ( 0.0 )

42.3 FG% . . ( -13.4 )
—– 3FG%
76.9 FT% . . ( -2.9 )

*************************

JJ’s numbers were by no means stellar. They’re pretty average, and well below average seeing how well JJ is paid. But for the most part, JJ’s level of play in the playoffs didn’t take a nosedive. Can’t say the same about the other 2 “core” guys though. At least Smith showed up to play on most nights, even if he couldn’t make anything. Mr Horford was a no-show for most of the playoffs.

It’s just hilarious to see people take shot after shot after shot against Joe Johnson, when overall, it was JJ who was the MVP for the Hawks during the playoffs. When you combine what each player did in the Orlando and Chicago series, he was the only one who came close to playing somewhat consistent in both series.

Yet the dude doesn’t get any credit whatsoever for us finally getting somewhat deep in the 2nd round.

- not from the fans
- definitely not from the Atlanta media
- and even his teammates who didn’t show up, question him

So people are surprised when JJ gives a non-chalant answer about not seeking glory or accepting blame for the Hawks winning or losing?

Hell . . most of you ( including the beat writer ), think that JJ is the 3rd, maybe even 4th best player on the team. You believe that, then get mad when JJ doesn’t play like Lebron or Wade ( because he’s getting paid to be that ). It’s funny though. When he does play well, it’s treated almost as an afterthought.

Like his Game 4 performance vs Chicago . . the glory went to Al and Josh for finally showing up in the same playoff game. But if JJ didn’t have a monster 3 quarters to pace the team, we don’t win that game.

But to play to that level, JJ has to shoot the ball . . often. But if he does that, and isn’t red hot, people call him a “ball hog” that doesn’t pass the ball. Then a person like myself gets mad at him for passing TOO MUCH to guys who simply can’t get it done even from a complimentary standpoint.

LMAO @ MC saying that Al Horford is our best player, and that the offense should be ran through him. What in the hell did Al show you during the playoffs, that suggested that the Hawks should go more to Al, than JJ . . or even Smith for that matter?

The only way Al Horford becomes a legit All-Star with All-Star type numbers, is if the Hawks obtain an All-Star caliber pass first PG that can get him a ton of easy looks. Al can barely be a complimentary player offensively. Guys like Paul MIlsap and even Dejuan Blair are better shot creators ( especially in the post ).

Yet, the Hawks are supposed to go from an offense featuring JJ ( an offense that has seen the Hawks win 144 games the past 3 years . . . to an offense to our All-Star center who can’t even create his own shot out on the perimeter or in the post?

Hilarious.

I’m sure everybody knows that it’s not JJ’s fault that the ASG paid him like he was Kobe. It was done out of desperation to keep other teams in our conference from getting him, and because we couldn’t get anything close to that caliber of a player to replace him, if Jamal couldn’t step up and do it.

I said it all year. People want JJ to live up to his contract, but don’t want him to play like the way other superstars play . . with the questionable shot selection, over usage, and ball demanding that most of them do. Nope . . people want JJ to play like a superstar, with complimentary player usage.

MC . . serious question. What would happen to Joe Johnson if he played alongside a legit PG that would take some of the playmaking and ball handling out of his hands, and simply let him concentrate on scoring the basketball?

You look around the league, and most of the superstars have played with one or two legit all-star caliber players. You look at Joe Johnson, and the best player he’s every played with . . . is Josh Smith.

The best PG? Mike Bibby ( who played off of JJ more than JJ played off of Bibby ).

The best low post scorer? Al Harrington

The best shooter? Tyronn Lue

I mean damn . . . guys like Jamal Crawford, Lue, and Flip Murray were #2 scoring options on this team . . all because our talented frontline tweener Forwards can’t consistently create their own shots.

The only way JJ can live up to that contract, is if he’s willing to take 20+ shots a game and rebound the ball better. Because if people don’t want him controlling the ball, he won’t rack up the assists. So he just need to forget the playmaking aspects of his game, and become strictly a scorer.

I knew MC kind of doubted JJ the entire year, just by how he would always point out negative aspects of his game even when he did something positive. When JJ had the monster game in Game 1 of the Chicago series ( arguably the best game of his playoff career and the 2nd best game by any Atlanta Hawk on the road ), yet, MC decided to focus the article on Teague’s 10 pts and 5 assists . . . it illustrated EXACTLY what JJ talks about.

And that’s why he’s blaise about the entire “superstar” process I guess. I’m sure he reads the blogs and gets on the internet, just like Smith, Horford, Marvin, and Jamal does. He knows what people say about him. So he chooses the “I don’t give a damn, I’m just going to play” attitude that turns out fans and ATL media writers and radio personalities.

Horford could barely score over Brandon Bass and was rushing all of his jumpers because quicker PFs were closing him out instead of leaving him open like centers do.

LOL @ develop the offense around Al Horford. MC . . you can do better than that man.

• Link
• Report this comment

“LMAO @ MC saying that Al Horford is our best player, and that the offense should be ran through him. What in the hell did Al show you during the playoffs, that suggested that the Hawks should go more to Al, than JJ . . or even Smith for that matter?

The only way Al Horford becomes a legit All-Star with All-Star type numbers, is if the Hawks obtain an All-Star caliber pass first PG that can get him a ton of easy looks. Al can barely be a complimentary player offensively. Guys like Paul MIlsap and even Dejuan Blair are better shot creators ( especially in the post ).”

Al Horford, Usg Rate: 18% less than1/5 possessions
Blair, Usg Rate: 20.1% 1/5 possession
Milsap, Usg Rate: 22.6% this year,19.7 for career. 1/5 possessions

all turn it over 1 out of 8 times, Blair 15%. Blair is very aggressive on a team with Ginobili Parker and Duncan.

And Al can’t outcreate Dejuan Blair…
Amare 30%
Carmelo 30%
Dirk 28%
Dwight Howard 27%
Zach Randolph 27%

Garnett 25%
Darell Arthur 23% aggressive 6′9 athletic backup

Shaq 20%
Andrew Bynum 20%
Al Horford 20%
OJ Mayo 20%
Hamed haddaddi 20%
David Lee 19%
Tyson Chandler 14%

Usage Rate= amount of shots or turnovers you create

RUN the Offense through Hamed Haddaddi go Iran! Run the offense through half-retired Shaq! go Shaq! Run the offense through Mayo/Horford!

Go undersized guy who gets smothered by length!

lol MC love the blog but I believe the term is shooters pocket. Al Horford has none. When someone gets in your shooters pocket you drive by them.

Al is too slow to do this consistently. Half the time Joakim Noah was defending him. Joakim Noah and in the last game you had 7 points in 40 minutes. Al got his touches.
he’s a TWEENER like OJ Mayo, like Darrel Arthur.
Al got his touches and thats why we lost.

• Link
• Report this comment