Atlanta Hawks: Video: The draft and the ‘core’

I talked Hawks today with CineSport’s Noah Coslov.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

315 comments Add your comment

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
6:21 pm

PLEASE KEEP BLOG COMMENTS OPEN THANK YOU

Tony from Stone Mountain

June 20th, 2011
6:23 pm

Hello everyone.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
6:33 pm

I would imagine many of these players would probably be available where the Hawks pick.

SteveW

June 20th, 2011
6:34 pm

When did Enes Kanter say he wanted to play C?

Sporting News article:

“Ask Kentucky big man Enes Kanter whether he sees himself as a power forward or a center in the NBA, and he’ll give the kind of answer that surely makes league executives smile. “I can do either,” he said. “When I went to Kentucky, coach (John) Calipari told me, ‘You are not just a center. You need to play power forward, too.’ So I worked on my shot, on my face-up game and I think I can play either now.”

But, apparently, he has eyes on being a starting center next year. Kanter measured at 6-11.25 with a standing reach of 9-1.5 and a wingspan of 7-1.5 on Friday. Here at the NBA draft combine, Kanter skipped out on interviews with the Bucks, Raptors and Jazz, though he will meet with Utah later next month. Milwaukee (picking 10th) has Andrew Bogut at center, while Utah (third, 12th) has Al Jefferson and Toronto (fifth) has Andrea Bargnani.

Kanter did meet with the Wizards, Cavaliers and Timberwolves, and could potentially start at center for each of those teams. The buzz around the camp this week has been that Washington is Kanter’s preference, where he could join former Kentucky point guard John Wall.”

He can play either C or PF – but he’s planning on playing Center

SteveW

June 20th, 2011
6:38 pm

When they flashed Al’s stats, they really flashed Josh Smith’s stats in the video

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
6:41 pm

I honestly don’t see that much difference between Enes Kanter and Nikola Vucevic who is supposed to go about 20 picks later than him.

Once you get past Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams, everyone in this draft looks the same to me. I don’t see another potential superstar in the group.

Ra'mon

June 20th, 2011
6:42 pm

SteveW, that wasn’t by accident, lol. Which one REALLY look better? lol. Still thinking what if they would have hired Mark Jackson (who I didn’t even realize was a pastor) or D. Casey.

UGA

June 20th, 2011
6:44 pm

I honestly wonder if anyone is on the trading block for us other than Marvin, and wonder if he is….

Michael Cunningham

June 20th, 2011
6:52 pm

@UGA: “I honestly wonder if anyone is on the trading block for us other than Marvin, and wonder if he is…”

of course they would trade Marvin. they tried to trade him at the deadline. the key is finding takers, a difficult proposition for reasons i am sure you understand.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
6:55 pm

Here is Hollinger’s Draft Rater article, which is supposed to only be available on Insider.

Who knows how accurate those ratings are, but it will be interesting to see how the draft shakes out in relation to them.

Ra'mon

June 20th, 2011
6:57 pm

IF you could trade Marvin for a TPE that would be great. IF you could trade Marvin for Vareajao, that would be highway robbery and one of the best deals the Hawks have made. I would love to see them be able to trade Marvin and Zaza for Vareajao actually. So then they could still have enough room to sign Dalembert, and a vet minimum free agent like Grant Hill or McGrady (or Vince). Imagine that.

Teague, Joe, -sf- (or Josh), Josh, Al
with a bench of Kirk, Vareajao, Vince, Dalembert, Wilkins, Sy, and #48 pick.

Ra'mon

June 20th, 2011
6:59 pm

Now that Shaq retired, I really think they should have traded Marvin for him. Shaq would’ve been off of the books, and Marvin would have been off the books as well. So you would’ve had $16 million coming off of the books (Jamal and Shaq’s-Marvin).

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
7:07 pm

MC I’m glad you pointed out the need to move away from the Joe-centered offensive scheme. I notice you didn’t really mention Teague, though… how much do you think he can contribute next season?

rob

June 20th, 2011
7:10 pm

I am all for drafting players if we had draft picks to make… With that being said our draft history outside of Horford, Smith, Jason Terry, and maybe Josh Childress has been horrible. We have always called for blowing up the team resulting in order.. Mookie for rights to draft Terry(So so). Steve Smith for Jim Jackson and Isiah Rider(set Franchise back for years.) Dikembe for Theo Ratliff(Ouch, injury prone.) Jason Terry for Antione Walker(we know how that turned out). I want the Hawks to make a trade, but maybe their draft and trade history has been so bad that they are afraid to pull the trigger. If we trade J Smoove, what can we resonably expect? A superstar is the only way to win a championship in this leage. The Detroit piston model was one and done.

In my opinion the hawks do have to make a trade, but in doing so they must make the right one. Trading Smoove is the only real option unless they want to trade Horford.(No way since we wont get back a superstar.) Looks like a mid tier team unless Rick Sund has something in his back pocket.

Grandmaster JeJe

June 20th, 2011
7:14 pm

SteveW,

I think Cleveland would make Marvin the No. 3 option on that team and he’d do fine there. We turned down Marvin for Shaq last summer. We refused to include Marvin in a trade for Devin Harris earlier this year.
*****
Jay Dabu,

It’s sad because Sund said our core players are all improving. LOL. The only player on our team who improved last year was Jeff Teague, and he isn’t in the core.

Michael Cunningham

June 20th, 2011
7:19 pm

@Najeh: “MC I’m glad you pointed out the need to move away from the Joe-centered offensive scheme. I notice you didn’t really mention Teague, though… how much do you think he can contribute next season?”

yeah, i don’t see how it’s going to work as long as J.J. is the focus. it’s cool when he goes iso and makes a play to bail the Hawks out of a bad possession (he’s really good at that) but not when the iso is the point of the possession.

as for Teague, i’ve said i think he should be the starter alongside Hinrich (assuming the Hawks can get another respectable guard for the bench). after what Teague did against Chicago i don’t see how he doesn’t deserve a full-time role from the start of camp (whenever that is).

Grandmaster JeJe

June 20th, 2011
7:19 pm

I really don’t care much about this draft. There aren’t many big names.

I only care if there are trades involving us or someone like V.Carter moves (Chicago)

UGA

June 20th, 2011
7:26 pm

Yes, MC, I understand……trust me.

UGA

June 20th, 2011
7:28 pm

MC: What guard outside of Crawford may be an option for the Hawks in your opinion?

ILL-Logical

June 20th, 2011
7:40 pm

@MC: Good points re Joe but still cannot see betting the future on APA.The last 3 playoff series and particularly the last 2 have left some lingering questions about the guy beyond his obvious offensive limitations. Please keep us posted as the draft approaches.

Sy+ Horford for Rockets Picks, MMotiejunas,Hasheem, MalcolmThomas, Jordan Hill

June 20th, 2011
7:41 pm

Could you guys define superstar? Because by most definitions Amare is a superstar and Carmelo is a superstar but Tyson Chandler isn’t and Kendrick Perkins wasn’t/isn’t.

Dwight Howard is. Jason Collins and Pachulia and Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson Horford aren’t.

The key is identifying the top players/teams and attacking their weaknesses.

Orlando: no double teams = no offense
Chicago: keep Noah off the boards with a fast big man, Asik and Gibson as well, don’t go small or with a slow big man because Rose will get more aggressive
Boston: speed, youth, big man depth is gone, KG has to defend the centers at time and plays low amount of minutes and is slowing down like Tim Duncan.
Los Angeles: weakness pg and Sf, play 2 big and slow 7 footers and considering his position Ron Artest is slower and less athletic than both of them. Bench is Lamar Odom and not much else

Dallas: Mike Miller is being shopped for a reason he’s not a big slasher like Wade/Lebron they thought he’d be.

Jason Kidd can guard Wade but how about Joe Johnson or Josh Smith who has a better back to the basket post game than Lebron/Durant?

can Barea/Terry guard Marvin William? run some cross screens to hit him in the paint and/or put him in the post.

NOT FAIR to play big? Tough Luck go HAWKS!

:::::::::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams,6′8/Malcolm Thomas,6′9/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

Sy+ Horford for Rockets Picks, Motiejunas,Hasheem, MalcolmThomas, Jordan Hill

Grandmaster JeJe

June 20th, 2011
7:47 pm

Do not resign Jamal. He had an awful Chicago series. His one role on the team is to score and he didn’t

Sy+ Horford for Rockets Picks, Motiejunas,Hasheem, MalcolmThomas, Jordan Hill

June 20th, 2011
7:50 pm

@Michael Cunningham

Hinrich and Teague starting makes Joe Johnson have to defend Lebron, the Dengs the Marions and score against their length.

We don’t have a Dirk Nowitzki-Tyson Chandler down low to challenge shots when our perimeters get beat.

The Hinrich Teague lineup drains our bench guards and we’re already lacking for 2-way big men we’ll be overpumping the starting lineup. And come playoff time Dwight Howard rocks that lineup to sleep.

Joe Johnson does not have the length to negate Turkoglu/Earl Clark whoever Orlando brings in.

NBA contenders don’t have small starting lineups. Hinrich has not been a dominant defender and scorer for years now. awesome bench player if we got the bench some help though,

we need to force our own matchups not try to go small or resign family members to accomodate feelings
:::::::::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams,6′8/Malcolm Thomas,6′9/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

Ramon

June 20th, 2011
8:02 pm

How about Al for M Gasol.

RealSquawk

June 20th, 2011
8:10 pm

I got nothing to loose. If the Hawks are trading then they should only look at trading joe johnson or josh smith. Trading Marvin Williams will get you nothing in return and I honestly think if Marvin gets the chance to be a second option on a team he is going to make us look bad. I don’t have that worry with Joe and Josh I would hate to see go, but I just don’t care so much for.

I just want to see Joe go. trade em to the clippers for kaman, gordon and a first round pick or something.

KevinM

June 20th, 2011
8:15 pm

MC, I know you see alot of good in Al, but he is not a go-to guy, and he is very similar to Joe. So Josh ends up being the go-to guy alot, and he is not in position to do such. I heard you comparing Al to Dirk, but Dirk is far from the post player that Al is…they play 2 different styles of basketball. They probably would complement each other very nicely though.
We have a quandry of question marks, unlike any other top team. We don’t have a leader on this team. We have parts…and when Sund says we have to do it the hard way, he should be staring at Marvin and texting Childress about what a huge colossal mistake it was to have either one on this team. Those 2, along with Shelden, will force the Hawks to yet rebuild again, if they are going to try and crash through the self-imposed 2nd round ceiling.
You gotta be a division threat before you can be a conference threat. We’re neither, and if we bring back the majority of last year’s roster, we aren’t bad nor good…we’re average.
Chicago beats us in a 7 game series today…
Miami beats us in a 7 game series today….
I think Boston even beats us in a 7 game series today…
Orlando…yes, I think they do as well…..

Trade 1 or 2 of the captains and have Sund tell us he is ready to move forward.

If you were in the last year of your contract, wouldn’t you be doing your best to improve this roster? You handcuffed the cap structure with Joe, you limit your options with this draft, and you still think there’s room to grow? The only thing you got out of this past year versus the year before? One more night of game receipts! That’s it!

And for anyone paying attention, Hindrich is not strong enough to take on the the full-time SG role for us…now way do we move forward depending on Kirk for that role.

sportsgreed.com has Jamal as the top FA SG for 2011….comments:
“Predicted Contract: 4-years, $38 million
Possible Destinations: ATL, NJ, NO, WAS”

He is picked over JRich, Nick Young, Afflalo, Vinsanity, Marcus Thorton, JR Smith, Barbosa, Sam Young,and TMac in that order.
I think the Bulls go after JR Smith, or JRich.

Sy+ Horford for Rockets Picks, Motiejunas,Hasheem, MalcolmThomas, Jordan Hill

June 20th, 2011
8:16 pm

@MC you say you want Joe to be a 2ndary scorer but look

lets say Teague can get 16ppg and Hinrich keeps his average up to 10ppg in major minutes

Jeff Teague/16***
Kirk Hinrich/10
Joe Johnson/18
Josh Smith/16
Al Horford/11
****that’s 71 points per game AND even if Smith is still heavy its a small interior defense in the playoffs.

Jeff Teague/16***
Joe Johnson/18
Josh Smith/16
Motiejunas/14
Hasheem/ 6 (20mpg) we get a Perkins like 6 points and 6 rebounds.

Then we still have for Pachulia, Jordan Hill, Kirk Hinrich, and Marvin Williams finally at the 2 and Malcolm Thomas who is a Granger/Hakim Warrick type at the 3.
That bench can easily average 20 ppg (4ppg from everybody).
Statistically it’s like you filled the bench with 5 Zaza Pachulia’s instead of one.

People say the Detroit model but that team never won until they got a 7 foot PF-C and shifted Corliss from the PF to the SF,
San Antonio 2 7 foot PF-Cs, Duncan and Robinson and Duncan +Mohammed/Oberto
Boston: 7 foot PF with C
Dallas: Dirk+ Dampier= fail, Dirk+ Chandler= win in 1st season together and Chandler is the youngest starter on that team.

NYK: want the defense of Dalembert over Marc Gasol to compensate for 6′10 Stoudemire who is a bad defender, swept by

Motiejunas: with Smith, Joe and Teague, will be open enough to score 14ppg easily,7′1 can shoot the 3. Like Rasheed he can shoot over smaller defenders and spread the floor out to 3. It’s like Small Ball except we dont give up defense.
………….
Projections:
36mpg 12mpg
Jeff Teague/ 16*** ; Hinrich 4ppg against backups
Joe Johnson/16 ; Marvin 4ppg against backups, as a 2 guard
Josh Smith/16 ; Thomas 4ppg against backups, as a 3
…….
Motiejunas/ 11ppg ; Hill 4ppg against backups, as a 4/5
24mpg 24mpg
Thabeet/ 6ppg; Pachulia 4ppg against backups, as a 4/5

…………..
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams,6′8/Malcolm Thomas,6′9/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

brigadierjerry

June 20th, 2011
8:29 pm

Here are my picks:

My board

1. Kyrie Irving
2. Derrick Williams
3. Tristan Thompson
4. Jonas Valuncianas
5. Kawhi Leonard
6. Enes Kanter
7. Kemba Walker
8. Tobias Harris
9. Alec Burks
10. Jordan Hamilton
11. Bismack Biyombo
12. Brandon Knight
13. Tyler Honeycutt
14. Jon Leuer
15. Nikola Vucevic
16. Chris Singleton
17. Jan Vesely
18. Klay Thompson
19. Norris Cole
20. Iman Shumpert
21. Nikola Mirotic
22. Jimmer Fredette
23. Donatas Motiejunas
24. Greg Smith
25. Marcus Morris
26. JaJuan Johnson
27. Markieff Morris
28. Davis Bertans
29. Kenneth Faried
30. Jeremy Tyler
31. Jordan Williams
32. Bojan Bogdanovic
33. Darius Morris
34. Giorgi Shermadini
35. Reggie Jackson
36. Rick Jackson
37. Brad Wanamaker
38. Damian Saunders
39. Nolan Smith
40. Malcolm Thomas
41. Travis Leslie
42. Trey Thompkins
43. Malcolm Lee
44. Charles Jenkins
45. Cory Joseph
46. E’Twaun Moore
47. Josh Selby
48. Jacob Pullen
49. Justin Harper
50. Jimmy Butler
51. Matt Howard
52. Jamie Skeen
53. Jereme Richmond
54. Keith Benson
55. D.J. Kennedy
56. Marshon Brooks
57. Isaiah Thomas
58. Andrew Goudelouck
59. Lavoy Allen
60. Shelvin Mack

Sy+ Horford for Rockets Picks, Motiejunas,Hasheem, MalcolmThomas, Jordan Hill

June 20th, 2011
8:30 pm

I’ll be the first to say Joe got too much $. He is falling out of the top 10 shooting guards altogether.

But at the same time he brings the size to defend and post up Keith Bogans and Redick and shoot over the D-Wades.

Smith has already proven that he is a better post player at the 3 than the 4/5 (should have been obvious for years). A caveat being his weight/speed hampers his stamina and effectiveness.

He posts up Durant Deng Iguodala Turkoglu etc. He slims up and he may gain on Carmelo and Lebron.

Horford is one of the best centers excluding the fact that he cant defend the good ones in the playoffs. But when you compare him to power forwards his Value Added is falling out of the top 10.
Add the fact that all you need to do is play 2 centers to attack him with one and Al cant take them off the dribble on offense = trouble.

:::::
“I got nothing to loose. If the Hawks are trading then they should only look at trading joe johnson or josh smith. Trading Marvin Williams will get you nothing in return and I honestly think if Marvin gets the chance to be a second option on a team he is going to make us look bad. I don’t have that worry with Joe and Josh I would hate to see go, but I just don’t care so much for.

I just want to see Joe go. trade em to the clippers for kaman, gordon and a first round pick or something.”

Call back when Eric Gordon is 30 years old!!

KevinM

June 20th, 2011
8:30 pm

I see NBA TV tonight on the Kanter measureables and they have him at 6′9″3/4…the first time I have seen him listed anywhere under his publicized 6′11″.
And if he’s smart, he will play C…the faster track to an all-star appearance if he ends up being that good. The hardest position to stand out is the PF…..there are plenty out there, and we have 2 that overlap and don’t give us enough defense, so we have to depend on limited Collins and limited Zaza.

It was not a bad pick

June 20th, 2011
8:40 pm

@MC

Why don’t you just admit that you don’t like Marvin’s game!.

UGA Hawks

June 20th, 2011
8:40 pm

MC-Bogut is on trade block for #2pick this year from Minnesota for Derrick Williams, why dont we offer them Josh Smith who is more proven NBA veteran with better block shot and D than DWill. They will listen to our offer, and finally we can have legit NBA center who can defend the rim and provide big size inside of paint with Al at 4.

Mike is back

June 20th, 2011
8:44 pm

MC, I’m calling you Lion Heart…for way the YOU REP the blog crew…I cringed when I heard Sund…reaching out to Jamal…Just be honest with him…and move on like POP for SA do…no since in fanning the flame.

If your are the BASG how TF can you afford to pay two guys…that are the same type of playerS…Basically, during the playoff…it was proven…that JJ and Jamal…are the same type of players…Jamal will be fine…Heck, he is in the cat bird seat…after what happen to LA and Miami.

Save for trading JJ…WHY TF WOULD YOU RESIGN JAMAL…dang my bad…we are talking about Sund and the ASG.

Drmaryb, you’re the best…the one about Beasley…has to be a candidate for the blog…of the century…LOL

It was not a bad pick

June 20th, 2011
8:45 pm

@MC

Once the Hawks basically give Marvin away, and he goes to a team that will allow him to at least attempt 12-15 shots a game, the Hawks will regret it for a long time…

KevinM

June 20th, 2011
8:51 pm

Iwnabp, how can you justify keeping Marvin and if he clears out some cap space, all the better. Do you recall Marvin having 2 good games in the same week? He has a game here, a game there, he has had a couple of big scoring nights with Joe out of the lineup, but that was against Cleveland.
The whole fantasy nation knows what Marvin can do, and that is why he isn’t even in the top 30 SFs in the league.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
8:52 pm

Why don’t we accommodate both Granny and Flavor Flav in one shot. Trade Teague, Joe, Smoove, and Al to the Rockets for Jordan Hill, Thabeet, and their first round pick.

PG Kirk
SG the second round pick
SF Marvin
PF Motiejunas
C Thabeet

Hello, historic 8-74 season.

KevinM

June 20th, 2011
9:03 pm

Rick Sund, read this and make this choice….

“With the 48th pick in the NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks make their first selection and select Josh Harrellson, C from the University of Kentucky”….If Jeremy Tyler isn’t going to be there, go get me a big man from a Final Four team. He practiced against Kanter all year in Kentucky, and that had to help him.
He held his own against Sullinger in the Ohio State tournament game as well, and Sullinger would be Top 5 today if he came out.
The question is, did Sund bring him in for a workout, or does he not know who Josh Harrellson is? That would not surprise me.

rob

June 20th, 2011
9:03 pm

Why don’t we accommodate both Granny and Flavor Flav in one shot. Trade Teague, Joe, Smoove, and Al to the Rockets for Jordan Hill, Thabeet, and their first round pick.

PG Kirk
SG the second round pick
SF Marvin
PF Motiejunas
C Thabeet

Hello, historic 8-74 season.

@ Najeh LMFAO!

It was not a bad pick

June 20th, 2011
9:10 pm

@KevinM
yeah when joe Max is hurt, he always gets at least 15ppg, he has had some of his biggest games when other players were hurt, Marvin was around the 14ppg mark for 3 years in a row until jamal and his 1000 shot attempts basically cut marvin shot attempts down to nothing..That is a fact, but my whole point is this, The Hawks have had 2 top 3 picks, 1 of the picks has been forced to play out of position his whole career, which has hurt the development of the former #3 pick, while the guy we picked 2nd has been basically asked to play off the likes of the 3Js, Joe,Jamal and Josh?..Why not at least see what the guy can do before you trade him..joe hogging the ball is not going to get us anywhere..When you draft guys in the top 3, you have to use them and use them right!

ryan

June 20th, 2011
9:17 pm

Paul Gasol on the trading block according to ESPN rumors .

James on Pharr Rd

June 20th, 2011
9:41 pm

What if we tanked the upcoming season? Seriously!!! And used it as a platform to develop Teague and either Josh or Al’s personal game. In the process, we can shed major contracts in a fashion similar to NY-2008-10 by juggling some of the other chips here and there. The benefit is we get a decent first round pick out it, shed contracts and rebuild long term, and also short term if the right moves are made. We could be looking at making a push again as early as the 2013 season

James on Pharr Rd

June 20th, 2011
9:43 pm

In that case we probably have to keep Marvin as a starter to guarantee we get into the lottery. What the heck his 8 million will make for a good trading chip in 2012-13… Crazy, uhhh? But, logical

dap01

June 20th, 2011
9:49 pm

I am sick of hearing about our CORE. We don’t have a CORE. We need to quit flattering ourselves. We don’t have a CORE. We have 2 forwards, a shooting guard that is a horrible leader and a PG that the head coach does not want to play.

Stop with the CORE crap.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 20th, 2011
10:29 pm

Is there a draft party this year?

Grandmaster JeJe

June 20th, 2011
10:38 pm

Worst GM in the NBA
Worst Ownership in Sports
No Center
No leadership
No physicality
No hard workers

Josh and Damien spend ALL DAY on Twitter.

What is Kobe doing? Probably getting up at 5 am to shoot jumpers

Fundamentals

June 20th, 2011
10:43 pm

It was not a bad pick – if Marvin does blow up somewhere else, isn’t that good for Marvin? Who’s side are you on here? Dude will never get a shot here…even in the 2nd unit, where he’s too proud to play.

So what did the video really do for us? Remind us of the obvious? We want scoop, trade hype, real or not! What’s brewing…anything!

darrell starks

June 20th, 2011
10:45 pm

darrell starks

June 20th, 2011
10:46 pm

CLEVALAND HAS TO BE CRAZY TO PAST ON DERRICK WILLIAMS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

O'Brien

June 20th, 2011
10:51 pm

AJ,

I think mikki moore would be useful off the bench :smile:

I said it last year. Hawks should have gotten shaq. If he is healthy, he would have helped down low. And he would have helped with marketing, sponsorship, ticket sales, and it would have allowed us to get rid of marvin in a sign and trade.

But rick didnt want to mess with the core, and they were afraid of chemistry issues with shaq. However, rick has to shake the team up one way or the other.

Fundamentals

June 20th, 2011
11:09 pm

I definitely want Teague to start to push tempo, with Kirk in reserve, but do we need one more PG prospect to ensure we’re safe in case of injury or are we banking on Sy taking over in the event that happens?

What PG prospects can also serve as a 3-pt shooter to bolster our bench? We’ll need both WHEN Teague or Kirk goes down.