Atlanta Hawks: Room for prospects
To hear Rick Sund and Dave Pendergraft talk today, the Hawks have changed their thinking when it comes to second-round draft picks.
Don’t expect the Hawks to draft another international project and either leave him playing overseas (Sergey Gladyr) or banish him to the far end of the bench/D-League (Pape Sy). More likely they will target a collegiate senior and, Pendergraft says, they expect to buck the odds and find a useful player at No. 48.
“We are not approaching this like there is luck involved,” he said. “We are approaching it like, ‘This is our pick and somebody we expect to make our team.’ And hopefully, if there is an injury, you can plug [the rookie] in there and they will be able to help.”
Perhaps more significantly, the Hawks might finally be to the point where there doesn’t have to be an injury to to the rotation guys for young guys to play. Sure, that might happen by necessity with just seven players under (guaranteed) contract next season and no financial flexibility (under the current CBA), but it still would represent a change in direction for the organization.
Asked if there is room on the roster for a promising second-round pick to get minutes, Pendergraft said:”What you have to weigh is, if we take a collegiate player and he is put in the same situation as Josh Powell or Etan Thomas, could they do as well or better?”
The other question, of course, is if the coach would play a rookie who is as good as those guys, but one thing at a time.
Sund said the Hawks are likely to draft the best available talent.
“It’s safe to say that, but I’m not going to commit to it,” he said. “I think you look at it as a need that you have and the best talent and then you equate it. Is that talent significantly better than the need? If it’s close, you take the need.”
What do the Hawks need?
“We would like to get a little tougher,” Sund said. “Hinrich helped us in that area and that kind of trickled down to some of the other players. I always like shooting. Size, rebounding. All of those things. Maybe not one is more important than the other.”
What skills tend to translate best from college to pro?
“People that rebound in college generally rebound in the NBA, even if they don’t make it for [the long term],” Sund said. “If you are a good rebounder in college, generally a good rebounder at professional level. Or if you are a good shooter. Some guys may be good shooters but they need more time to get it off.”
The Hawks aren’t releasing the names of the prospects they bring in for workouts. Sund’s explanation was that the workouts are not as significant since the Hawks don’t have a first-round pick. He said the players the team invited to Atlanta are simply those the Hawks didn’t get a chance to see at one of the three group workouts.
Pendergraft said the Hawks invited about 20 players. Most are college seniors and only three or four prospects are centers/power forwards.
“There’s probably been more swing players than ‘bigs’ simply because of supply and demand,” Pendergraft said. “There are not a lot of big guys.”
OK, blog people, take those clues provided by Sund and Pendergraft (college senior, tough rebounder or good shooter) and look at the list of prospects and see if you can narrow down the Hawks’ potential draftees.
Sund has hit on some value in the second-round before: He got both Earl Watson and Bobby Simmons in the 2000 draft for Seattle (and then traded Simmons for Predrag Drobnjak).
“The process in the second round, [since] the percentages aren’t all that high, is patience,” Sund said. “We ask a couple different questions. Does he have one NBA skill? Another is, does he have size? Or is there a player that is a little bit opposite of ‘Do they one NBA skill?’ and do they have multiple skills? A lot of those guys, like Bobby Simmons, are jacks-of-all-trades; they do a lot of things good but nothing necessarily great. Those players do have an opportunity to make it as—and I’m using this in a positive way—to have more of a journeyman status over the years.”
Notes
- Sund on the possibility of trading into the first round: “This time of year there is always a lot of dialogue going on. There’s probably less [potential deals] with the uncertainty of the CBA and people unwilling to pull the trigger. There’s just as much dialogue but the uncertainty of the new collective bargaining might play into the timing issues.”
- Pendergraft said Gladyr will play for the Ukranian national team in the European Championships this summer. The team is coached by Mike Fratello and is in Group D with Zaza’s Georgia national team. “This will be a good summer for [Gladyr],” Pendergraft said.
- Pendergraft on Gladyr’s development: “If the NBA was a game of H-O-R-S-E you could bring him over now. But physically he needs to mature a little bit. Playing in the ACB in Spain, which is one of the better leagues, has been invaluable to him. It’s the fist time he’s really gotten structure. In the Ukraine their league just wasn’t as competitive. He’s only 21, so will he ever be an NBA player? I’m not ready to put a percentage on it. He can really shoot, though.”
- Sy has been working out in Atlanta with Magnum Rolle. Those two plus the team’s draft pick are expected to participate in a minicamp at Philips later this month.
- Pendergraft said the workout sessions so far have been better because of the prospects’ circumstances. “In the past we are sitting here [picking] in late teens or late 20s and you bring guys to your gym and they’ll come but you know in the back of their minds [they think], ‘Oh, well, I’m not falling that far.’ And now we’ve got guys coming in, they know they are second-rounders and it doesn’t matter where [the money] it’s all the same. It’s been refreshing the guys that have come in here have busted their tails.”
- Pendergraft on older prospects: “Most college seniors there is going to be some physical changes, maturation. Not like [with] real young guys but be some. Not all four-, five-year players are ‘what you see is what you get.’”
- There was a time when it looked like the Hawks might have a shot at drafting center prospect Jeremy Tyler at No. 48. He’s the guy who skipped his senior year of high school (while spurning my Cards), went to Israel, and ended up in Japan. But Tyler apparently helped himself in meetings with teams and now should be gone when the Hawks pick. “We interviewed him in Chicago,” Pendegraft said. “Having never spoke to that young man before, he really had his act together.”
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371 comments Add your comment
Ken Strickland
June 20th, 2011
9:49 am
STEVEW-I also have my peeves when it comes to LDrew. But while he’s shown that he shares some of the same unexplainably stupid bias’ and philosophies that plagued MWoodson, I’m holding out hope that he, unlike Woodson, can learn from his mistakes and adjust. After all, he did sit on the bench next to Woodson, and he did become HC because of Woodson’s stubborness and unwillingness to change or adjust, or do what Sund and the ASG told him he’d have to do to keep his job.
He knows Sund and the ASG won’t hesitate to let him go if he and the team don’t improve. If fact, because of last yrs disappointing regular season, compared to the 2 previous season, and the raised post season expectations, he’ll have to do more than Woodson was unwilling to do in order to keep his job.
I find it hard to believe he’d be dumb enough not to recognize what he’s facing and not do anything about it. But, then again, I felt the same way about Woodson, and look at how wring I was. The CBA will determine how much help Sund and the ASG can give Drew. Until the parameters of the new CBA have been established, all of these trade proposals are nothing more than efforts in futility.
The Hawks are currently under the luxury tax cap by just over $3M, and letting JCrawford walk should increase that amount by $1-2M. If we can exchange a salary or 2 in a trade for a Big, we should be able to improve our bench and stay under the new cap. We certainly won’t have to pay much to sign draft picks, since we don’t have a 1st rounder.
As far as Pape Sy getting the Teague treatment, it depends on Drew’s ego. Will he learn from his mistakes and give him a chance to show what he can do? Or will he continue his biased approach against younger players and limit both in favor of vets JJ and Hinrich. You have to question the wisdom of any HC with such a bias against younger guards. It speaks volumes when the GM and ownership are forced to give away 2 first rd picks and a young talent just to get rid of a player that’s hurting the team, and the HC refuses to recognize the need to make adjustments in his mins and/or status. LET’S HOPE HE’S NOT AS STUBBORN AND BLINDED AS WOODSON.
Ken Strickland
June 20th, 2011
10:12 am
GEEMACK-The differences between the Hawks and Bulls are:
1-the Bulls took full advantage of the talent it had, and the Hawks didn’t. There’s no way their HC would have ignored Teague, Wilkins, Pape Sy, or DEF to played Bibby and Jamal major mins.
2-the Bulls HC actually held his players accountable and benched them if they didn’t play the type of DEF he wanted. As we all know, except for giving it lip service, that approach hasn’t been used with the Hawks in at least 7yrs.
3-The Bulls have and utilize a quick, fast, athletic and talented PG, and the Hawks have refused to do so, at least until forced into doing it due to an injury.
4-the Bulls established an identity based on a very effective approach to playing DEF first. The Hawks tried to establish an OFF first identity, which didn’t work very well, and refused to make any attempt to rely more on playing DEF.
5-the Hawks were a team with more talented individual players, but they were a more talented team with less talented individual players, and the BEST TEAM won.
rickytrooper
June 20th, 2011
10:12 am
Enter your comments hereDon’t know if you guys have seen but looks like utah are looking to move Millsap and or Harris.
Harris i think would be a nice fit, 6′3 point guard that averages 15pts/7assists. basically in his prime also. I guess the issue being it he has 2 yrs remaining and not sure what we could offer as i think his paid pretty well making salaries impossible to match. Still i like him over sessions etc etc
Source: ESPN via Yahoo NBA
Sautee
June 20th, 2011
10:20 am
“@Sautee
Don’t forget Hinrich is already 30 years old and he got injured on a routine play in the playoffs.”
BS excuse. Both JKidd and Ray Allen had injuries in their early thirties. How long have they played since?
There is NO logical reasoning behind the idea that Hinrich at age 30 pulled a hamstring, so therefore he’s an injury risk. None. I guess you think Tiger Woods is totally washed up at 35. We’ll see.
Of course with the reasoning you have tried to use to convince the blog that you have all the answers to the Hawks problems, I’m not surprised. I’ll just be glad when the draft is past and the endless trade stupidities mercifully end.
Artman
June 20th, 2011
10:29 am
1. Najeh Davenpoop -
If Thabeet had 1/100th the basketball IQ of Jason Collins, he might actually be a marginally useful player instead of the Iranian Super League third string caliber player that he currently is.
2. Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc. -
Hasheem is literally twice the winner Collins is. With less experience
———————————————————
Two very divergent opinions on Thabeet. Which one is more likely real? Let’s check with Rick Adelman. After the trade to Houston, with Thabeet being the only true center on their roster, how did Thabeet do with his playing time?
Oops, Rick Adelman did not play him at all. I go with number 1.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 20th, 2011
11:11 am
“I kept seeing Hasheems name mentioned so I decided to take a look at what he brings to the table for almost $5M per yr. Well, I saw that he gives you just about what Hilton Armstrong gives you”
Hilton Armstrong can never:
- shoot or Finish the True Shooting %
- Block as many shots
- alter as many shots
Hilton
- turns the ball over more
- shoots a lower percentage
- uses the ball more than Hasheem
‘I’d also question the basketball IQ of anyone that would suggest the Hawks would improve by trading Pape Sy and AHorford, the NBA’s 3rd best center and a 2 time All Star Reserve]”
”for a bunch of unproven draft picks, especially in a draft as weak as this one is.”
Marc Gasol, Marcus Thornton, Monta Ellis – all 2nd round picks, all higher PERs than Joe Johnson.
Pape Sy? Al Horford cannot guard Dwight Howard or score on Joakim Noah, what does REGULAR SEASON center mean to you?
where do Perkins, Chandler, and Mohammed/Oberto rank? how many rings does Dwight have?
Kendrick Perkins and (Kevin Garnett), 1 ring, 2 finals
Fabricio Oberto/Nazr Mohammed/Robinson and (Tim Duncan), 4 rings
Tyson Chandler-Dampier-Haywood and (Dirk Nowitzki), 1 ring 2 finals
We need a POWER FORWARD, if its Amare or BlakeGriffin great but otherwise a 7 footer with handle and shooting works nicely.
Horford is not Duncan, Amare, Nowitzki etc.
If Horford is the 3rd best center then where does Collins rank as a power forward?
“The safest and surest way to improve this team is to strengthen the bench. Predictions of doom and gloom for the Hawks have been made over the yrs based on the projected improvement of other teams. Yet, we managed to improve every yr inspite of those projections. Some of you act like these projected improvements will only affect the Hawks.”
And how do we improve the bench? Hilton Armstrong, Magnum Rolle? Keith Benson a bunch of 6′10 220 lb power forwards guarding the center position.
The Hawks have not improved every year. Orlando traded their best pieces away. Chicago leap frogged us. Joe regressed.
The big lineup is the reason we won against Orlando and Collins inability to play basketball for 20 minutes is low and declining.
Al Horford’s 7 points and 4 rebounds in 37 minutes, Game 6 elimination.
Hawks are not a contender.
BD
June 20th, 2011
11:20 am
Hawk in to pick up Jarvis Hayes. He’s here in Atlanta training. Jarvis played in Europe this past year. He had a great year. We need a shooter.
drmaryb (*_-)
June 20th, 2011
11:22 am
Who Dat?
Who is Dat poster who’s user I’d is almost as long winded as his comments? Please go away and leave us alone.
Geez-Us! Scrolling hard … I can’t read all that ish.
Trojan
June 20th, 2011
11:35 am
Jarvis can shoot.
wow we really wont upgrade our bigs. Jason Collins ?
June 20th, 2011
11:44 am
After a midseason trade Rick Adelman didn’t play Hasheem over Chuck Hayes, Brad Miller, Patrick Patterson or Jordan Hill.
Wow and in 24 games they didn’t feel the need to play him against Dwight Howard or Joakim Noah, maybe because they never played them post trade.
PER
Chuck Hayes (16.2), Brad Miller 16.3, Patrick Patterson 16.7 Jordan Hill 13.1
Hasheem (12.9) his first year, 12 mpg
Jason (5.4) regular season last year. 7.2 for career. After his first 3 years he never reached 10.0.
3.8 in the playoffs this year, 13 minutes and 3 fouls per game.
Collins has no stamina, let Dwight score at will and simply cannot stay on the floor against Noah.
Dwight Howard 2 for 6 in 34 minutes, 5 fouls, 11 reb. 1 offensive. 8 points, 4 turnovers
Hasheem Thabeet 0 for 1 in 19 minutes, 4 fouls, 5 reb. 1 offensive. 0 points, 1 turnover.
The game was close until Vince took over against Mayo.
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
11:46 am
Addition by subtraction could mean:
We let Jamal walk
Or we give Marvin away to have money to sign Jamal.
Interesting either way.
KevinM
June 20th, 2011
11:52 am
The only thing I would want from Cleveland re: that rumor would be that 4th draft pick. No way though, that Sund gives up anything in value on the last year of his deal.
I think he and Drew will play it safe and not make a major move heading into the CBA. While they could do a deal for Jamal before the CBA expires, they aren’t in a hurry to solidify the roster. I would guess Jamal would never get more than a 3/15M offer if that.
Rick Sund
June 20th, 2011
11:54 am
“Al Horford’s 7 points and 4 rebounds in 37 minutes, Game 6 elimination.
Hawks are not a contender.”
Al Horford is working on his fadeaway and his 3 point shot. So what his shot is easily contested. He’ll get more touches this year.
J-Smoove? so what if he expires it only means everyone will come to ATL baby! where we breed success!
#sarcasm
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
12:00 pm
I’m for signing Jarvis Hayes. Was last off season as well.
Sautee – Blow up trade of the day (I couldn’t help myself). But if Sund says you don’t get a superstar without a 1 or 2 pick (false) here it goes:
Josh Smith to the Cavs for 1 and 4
Hinrich and Marvin to the Cavs, along with next seasons 1st pick, and all 4 second picks over the next 2 seasons for: Hickson and Sessions
JJ to the ‘Wolves for the #2 pick, so JJ can play alongside Rubio. Have them throw in Johnny Flynn since they want to dump him.
Draft Singler, Williams, Kanter
Lineup
G’s: Sessions, Teague, Flynn, Singler, Sy. Try Sessions, Flynn, and Sy at the 2
F’s: Williams, Hickson, Hayes, Wilkens, Rolle
C’s: Al, Kanter, ZaZa, Collins
Sund has his #1 a #2 picks for superstars.
Sorry, these are stupid trades. Doubt Cleveland would trade 1 and 4 for Josh. But if not, we still have Josh. But if they get Josh, they don’t need Hickson, and Marvin, Hinrich, and 5 draft picks may be enough to pry Sessions and Hickson from them, who knows.
And if the Wolves want a proven player, a #2 and Flynn may do the trick.
And I have no idea if the Wolves have the cap or trade exception space to do that trade.
Just speculating, that’s all
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
12:05 pm
Geemack – 2 second round wins are still better than getting swept by, again, record proportions.
And if ASG wants to know where the fan base is, you cant’s set a record for futility in one playoffs – 101 total point margin, and it could have been worse – Orlando eased up on us the last 2 games.
Then sign the HC’s asst. and set all kinds of records for epic futility – most 30+ losses by a winning team, most 20+ losses by a winning team etc.
And expect fans to be pleased. Not going to happen.
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
12:06 pm
‘Cant’ s should be “can’t: in my last post – I apologize
Trojan
June 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
With only the addition of a talent like Jarvis Hayes, the Hawks could be vastly improved.
Starters: Teague, Hinrich, JJ, Josh and Al. Better perimeter defense and more running which will help the offense.
Bench: Pape, Wilkens, Hayes, Marvin and Zaza. The bench would provide defense and offense.
With Collins, Rolle and #48 pick making up the bench.
This team would be an improvement over a Bibby and Jamal based team. I wonder if LD could actually utilize such a team.
KevinM
June 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
Jarvis Hayes sounds like another Sund reclamation project to have guys here who will work for the minimum. After all, he has given away the bulk of the treasures to the first 7.
And I agree with the longest name ever recorded: “Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.”………..the Hawks are not a contender for the EC, much less the division crown.
VernFlemming
June 20th, 2011
12:38 pm
My advice to the Hawks brass is to “let Jamal Crawford go and play somewhere else” where he can take his circus act somewhere else. The Hawks have had enough of him “PURPOSELY HOLDING BACK HIS GAME” so he can prove to the Hawks that he should be the highest paid player in the history of the game! What makes no sense to me is that Jamal Crawford averaged 24 points in the Orlando series. In the next series against Chicago, suddenly, inexplicably, Jamal averaged less than 4 points a game. that is a 20 point dropoff and that defyies explanation. Jamal purposely held back his game in the Chicago series so that he could get a huge contract. These mind games could backfire on Jamal if the Hawks decide that the move was childish and un-called for. Jamal could have helped the Hawks make it to the Eastern Conference Finals against an inferior opponent Chicago. Instead Jamal QUIT cold-turkey and decided he would play no more until after the summer and the new season started. In my opinion, that is completely unprofessional and shouldnt be tolerated by the Hawks. Jamal should be allowed his unconditional release and should be given his walking papers.
Re: Trojan
June 20th, 2011
12:40 pm
Great name. R u a Greek bearing gifts? Hawks start the offseason with a bang.
Inserting Jarvis Hayes at 6′7 means Marvin is redundant again. I’m all for the Malcolm Thomas trade. He brings what Josh Smith brings. Blocks, Transition buckets and size to shoot over defenders.
That is as a 3 man. As a 4 hes too skinny and will be pushed out the post.
@SteveW
You trade for Kanter and then bench him for Al and consider Singler a guard?
Sessions, Teague and Flynn all little guards fighting for minutes and getting shots over bigger defenders?
Are we trying to get bigger and more efficient or smaller and more jump shots?
Why not just resign Jamal and get Flip Murray back here…
Re: VernFlemming
June 20th, 2011
12:44 pm
maybe Keith Bogans Luol Deng and Ronnie Brewer and even Rose are better defenders than JJ Redick and Jameer Nelson? just maybe??
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
1:09 pm
ReTrojan – I meant Irving, not his Duke counterpart Singler. My bad
Irving/Teague at point
Sessions/Flynn/Sy at SG
Derrick Williams/Hayes/Wilkens @ the 3
Hickson/Rolle @ the 4
Al/Kanter/ZaZa/Collins @ 5
Not a bad team, very young. Yea, a couple of guys Flynn and Sessions are out of place, but at least we may be in a position to win a Championship in a couple of years, especially if Derrick Williams is as good as some of you guys think he is.
Buddy Grizzard
June 20th, 2011
1:43 pm
“Until the parameters of the new CBA have been established, all of these trade proposals are nothing more than efforts in futility.”
That’s not entirely true. Does anybody know if the Cavs could absorb JJ into their traded player exception in a draft-day trade?
Re:Steve
June 20th, 2011
1:50 pm
putting small guards and Derrik WIlliams is similar to what Cleveland did with Lebron.
They tried to find a big guard to defend and score and the best the came up with was Anthony Parker.
Hickson, Kanter, and Al all want to play power forward on both ends. #defensiveconundrum
Astro Joe
June 20th, 2011
1:59 pm
If Jarvis Hayes is getting more than 8 minutes/game of playing time, we’re in deep, deep trouble. I don’t see how we would threaten any player who currently has a guaranteeed contract with the team.
When will someone mention Mikki Moore?
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
2:08 pm
Wow – did Buck Belue really make meaningful NBA comments?
FIRE ASG
FIRE LD
FIRE WOODY
WWC – I’m Free like Mandela
drmaryb – The Grandmaster is back
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
2:09 pm
Marvin Williams for Anderson Varejao
Cleveland NEEDS a SF. They will take Irving and Kanter (who really intrigues me)
Duck and Varejao have very similar contracts. CLEVELAND HAS ACTUALLY WANTED MARVIN BEFORE. WE TURNED DOWN A TRADE OF MARVIN FOR SHAQ
TRADE MARVIN ,SUND
HE IS NOT PART OF OUR CORE
HE SUCKS AND IS WORKING ON HIS AFRICAN STUDIES DEGREE RIGHT NOW WHILE HE RECOVERS FROM A PATHETIC INJURY IN WHICH HE TRIED TO WRAP UP A PLAYER, BUT ENDED UP ON THE GROUND
SHAKE MY HEAD
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
2:10 pm
“Who Dat?
Who is Dat poster who’s user I’d is almost as long winded as his comments? Please go away and leave us alone.
Geez-Us! Scrolling hard … I can’t read all that ish.”
LOL!!!!!
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
2:13 pm
Do not resign Jamal. The guy had a terrible Chicago series. 3 of the games he didn’t even crack double figures in scoring.
JAMAL’S ONLY ROLE ON THIS TEAM WAS TO SCORE POINTS, WHICH HE DID NOT DO.
Offer Marvin for Varejao/Blatche/Javale McGhee and dangle more useless 1st rders we don’t need
FREE TEAGUE
Kanter
June 20th, 2011
2:18 pm
O boy Kanter yet another power forward who will be a better scorer than Al.
People want to trade Smith and become guard-heavy like the Cleveland Cavaliers?
PER for SFs playing at lest 32 minutes
Name City Minutes Efficiency Ht, Weight, span
1 LeBron James, MIA 38.8 27.34 6′8,250 7′0
2 Kevin Durant, OKC 38.9 23.7 6′10,230 7′4
3 Carmelo Anthony, DEN/NY 35.7 21.82 6′8,240 7′0
4 Paul Pierce, BOS 34.7 19.76 6′7,230 7′0
5 Josh Smith, ATL 34.4 19.31 6′8,240 7′0
6 Danny Granger, IND 79 35.0 17.89 6′9,230 7′2
7 Rudy Gay, MEM 54 39.9 17.88 6′8,240 7′3
10 Gerald Wallace, POR/CHA 37.9 16.28 6′7,230 7′0
11 Luol Deng, CHI 39.1 15.58 6′8,230 7′0.5
…….
low # of minutes due to age
8 Shawn Marion, DAL 28.2 17.09 6′8,230 7′1
9 Andrei Kirilenko, UTAH 31.2 16.68 6′9,230 7′4
We’ve seen Smith match up with all those players and we want to trade Joe’s size, Smith’s size, for Derrick Williams and JJ Hickson? Kanter is the only one who would seem to have a consistent advantage at 6′11 but you’d still need a center to guard Dwight Howard.
Kanter comes here and would replace Al.
doc
June 20th, 2011
2:49 pm
kanter, question is if josh is a sf or pf? he plays more at pf doesnt he, so which is that per for? where does he rank for pf and can al match that is more important isnt it?
Grandad
June 20th, 2011
2:51 pm
SteveW – We cannot trade our 1st pick next yr.
*["Stepien" Rule]
Buddy Grizzard
” Does anybody know if the Cavs
could absorb JJ
into their traded player exception
in a draft-day trade? ”
* Not 100 % sure but I think so.
Taking back Jamison for 1 year works also.
[If I understand you correctly]
SteveW…..(again)
a more likely scenario would be:
Josh for Varejao + # 4 pick.
(selection) = Kawhi Leonard to replace Marv @ [3].
Give Marv away for a bag of doughnuts.
Resign Jamal.
JoJo the Godfather
June 20th, 2011
3:13 pm
Marvin and a future pick to Cleveland for air. Very similar to how Chicago had to dump Hinrich last year.
Fundamentals
June 20th, 2011
3:24 pm
What we have singed:
PG: Teague/Hinrich/Sy
SG: Joe/ Hinrich/Sy – most likley add Damien
SF: Josh/Marvin/Sy – most likely add Damien
PF: Josh/Al/ZaZa – Rolle potentially?
C: Al/ZaZa – most likely add Collins
That’s all 5 slots covered w/ who we have already signed. We’ll extend to 13-15 before it’s over. With the potentials and a draft pick that gives us 12 signed players, with these left in the wings.
Jamal – too expensive as it stands w/o a trade.
Hilton – depends on who else is available cheap.
Powell & Etan = replaced
I bet we draft a PG/SG project and sign Hilton to finish the roster. Is that what I want for a championship, no, but that’s my predraft prediction. What’s yours?
Fundamentals
June 20th, 2011
3:30 pm
If we dump a player for “air” and get something, even just cap space to fill a niche with someone who can play that role is it a step backwards?
My answer is no, it’s still improvement…even if said player blossoms elsewhere. It’s a win-win for both sides.
Teams with cap space might take that player on if the deal was right. If they are under the cap, why can’t we do such a deal?
Smith in 2009-2010, center scoring is overrated, defense underrated
June 20th, 2011
3:33 pm
RK PLAYER PER EsimatedWinsAwarded
1 LeBron James, CLE 31.19 30.5
2 Kevin Durant, OKC 26.23 25.4
3 Carmelo Anthony, DEN 22.29 15.5
4 Josh Smith, ATL 21.04 13.6
5 Gerald Wallace, CHA 18.39 12.2
….
6 Danny Granger, IND 19.85 10.6
7 Paul Pierce, BOS 18.24 9.3
….
Problem is you look at Al and his inability to create his own shot or negate playoff centers, create foul shots and it always rears its ugly head.
His best statistical playoff series was against Milwaukee without Bogut. We will not get a Rasheed Wallace type big man unless we trade Al.
Al just had his best season here’s how he matches against F-C’s.
1 Dwight Howard, ORL 26.13 22.7
2 Pau Gasol, LAL 23.33 17.9
3 Kevin Love, MIN 23.6 16.7
4 Blake Griffin, LAC 21.93 16.1
5 Amare Stoudemire, NY 22.78 16.1
6 LaMarcus Aldridge, POR 21.57 16.1
7 Zach Randolph, MEM 22.67 15.1
8 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 23.52 15.0
9 Al Jefferson, UTAH 20.20 14.0
10 Al Horford, ATL 20.79 13.7
2009-2010 MIN totalminutes TSFG%
41 DeAndre Jordan, LAC 16.2 1163 .571
42 Tyson Chandler, CHA 22.8 1137 .643
43 Hasheem Thabeet, MEM 13.0 886 .605
44 Chuck Hayes, HOU 21.6 1773 .500* – he’s short & struggles to score
minutes PER Value Added Estimated Wins Awarded
41 DeAndre Jordan*, LAC 1163 12.70 35.6 1.2
42 Tyson Chandler, CHA 1137 12.58 34.3 1.1
43 Hasheem Thabeet, MEM 886 12.91 30.4 1.0
44 Chuck Hayes*, HOU 1773 11.69 28.9 1.0
2010-2011 minutes PER VA EstimatedWinsAwarded
42 Brendan Haywood*, DAL 1331 11.71 22.1 0.7
*centers suggested in trade or Free Agency
2003-2004 Karl Malone 1373 minutes 2.1 wins ; reached the finals
2009-2010 Hasheem Thabeet, 886 minutes 1.0 win
2010-2011 Omer Asik, 989 minutes 0.6 wins, rotted on pine and posts bad #s but would start for Atlanta
You can do a lot worse than Hasheem in the center position
Najeh Davenpoop
June 20th, 2011
3:51 pm
“You can do a lot worse than Hasheem in the center position”
I suppose Manute Bol’s corpse would be a lot worse than Thabeet, but that’s about it.
I’d rather have Kevin Willis, in all honesty.
Also, PER is a great stat if you are playing fantasy basketball. It is a relatively meaningless stat in real life. Box score stats only provide a limited picture of what actually happens in the game.
Fundamentals
June 20th, 2011
3:53 pm
Does Kevin Willis have a son? Actually the old KW would be a better fit for this roster than some of the folks discussed.
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
3:55 pm
VernFlemming,
Jamal averaged 4 ppg in the CHicago series?
LOL!
22 11 7 12 2 8
Yeah averaging those numbers out sure gives 4.
SMDH
Fundamentals
June 20th, 2011
3:59 pm
GMJJ – it averages out to 10.3333 per game.
What’s your feeling for the draft? Think we’ll see any action?
Fundamentals
June 20th, 2011
4:02 pm
AV from Cleveland would give us some more energy, rebounding and defense down low. In my mind a decent fix for the C position.
SF options Josh/Joe/Damien/Sy
PF options Al/Josh/Rolle
C options AV/ZaZa/Collins
Grandad
June 20th, 2011
4:08 pm
*{{{ Multiple Choice }}}*
Sund thinks we’re stupid, is a compulsive liar, is a bad spinner,
a worse politician, he’s stupid, he thinks no-one is paying attn,
the other GM’s don’t call him, he doesn’t have their ph #,
all of the above, none of the above, some of the above, A&B,
E, E &G, E&F, or E,G,&F ? *[read the two quotes below]
(1)
” The NBA draft is next on the summer schedule,
but it’s actually the next key date – July 1st –
that has team execs working the phones even more than usual
for this time of year.
July 1st is when the lock-out will begin,
and in anticipation of that
teams are trying to get as much roster work done as possible
before everything comes to a screeching halt.”
_______________________________________________________
(2)
•Sund on the possibility of trading into the first round:
“This time of year there is always a lot of dialogue going on.
There’s probably less [potential deals]
with the uncertainty of the CBA
and people unwilling to pull the trigger.
There’s just as much dialogue
but the uncertainty of the new CBA
might play into the timing issues.”
_______________________________________________________
Those two quote seem somewhat incongruent
Buddy Grizzard
June 20th, 2011
4:19 pm
“Last week, LD said during a radio interview that he Hawks may do some “addition by subtraction” with regard to the roster.” – Astro Joe
LOL… first Rick Sund says he doesn’t believe in addition by subtraction, then Lame Duck says he thinks its a good idea. Hawks mgmt is READING THIS BLOG peeps.
I wonder if there’s something of a power struggle going on between LD and Sund. Since Sund wanted Dwayne Casey it’s going to be the two of them pointing their fingers at each other at the end of this season if it doesn’t end well.
Dark Karma
June 20th, 2011
4:20 pm
Larry Drew certainly isn’t the best coach in the NBA, he’s probably in the bottom third. His salary is probably dead last. However, to argue that he is the worst coach in the NBA is rather absurd. The man has his warts and the owners should have gone another route, but there are a few things wrong with the argument about him being the worst.
First, his team played above .500 basketball for the regular season. Second, his team won in a first round playoff matchup in which they were the underdog. Not only that, but they actually won two games in the second round and seemed competitive before succumbing to their own faults, which existed with the previous coach. Third, to say he is the worst coach is to say that this team’s success was absolutely in spite of him (much like people said about the previous coach), which is to suggest that overall talent can ultimately overcome coaching.
If this was true, then the L.A. Clippers should have gone to the western conference playoffs this past season and possibly won in the first round. After all, they have a guy in Blake Griffin who is better than anybody on this team, yes included the multi-talented but idiotic Josh Smith and the vastly overpaid Joe Johnson. Not only that, but the Clippers have two guys who averaged over 22 points per game during the season, a feat that none of the Hawks were able to duplicate in one guy, much less two.
Strange that people are willing to exaggerate the problem that much when a guy has only had the job for a single year and has already outdone his predecessor in the playoffs in that single year. No, he is by far not the best man for the job, but his position is the one thing unlikely to change, a lot like wishing the ASG would sell the team, when Michael Gearon is hanging onto it like his life depends on it.
Wishing either one was different is normal. Exaggerating about the coach is agenda driven. Did we not have to suffer through 6 years of Mike Woodson? Where is Drew going to go after a single year? This organization isn’t very bright and micromanages. Best to leave alone that which won’t likely change and concentrate on what can change.
But for crying out loud, try to be real about it. Or let’s keep complaining and make a “worst list”.
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
4:26 pm
Fundamentals,
Whatup Fam?
Well Sund said 2 weeks ago we’re in full draft mode. LOL. We have a freaking mid-2nd rounder. SMH
I already know we’ll draft some 6″8 6″9 athletic stiff who will not be able to help us. I will be shocked if we DO NOT draft someone 6″8 or 6″9
Marvin for Varejao
FIRE LD
Dark Karma
June 20th, 2011
4:27 pm
Larry Drew – worst coach of a team with a winning record and some moderate playoff success.
Josh Smith – worst multi-talented player who should have been an all-star already.
Joe Johnson – worst “max contract” player
Al Horford – worst all-star and all-nba big man
Marvin Williams – worst starter on a playoff team. worst #2 pick in the nba draft in the last 5-10 years.
Michael Gearon – worst majority owner of an NBA franchise.
Cenk Aykol – worst Hawks foreign draft pick.
Jerry Stackhouse – worst “should have signed him but didn’t” mistake by Hawks management during training camp in the last 5 years. Damien Wilkens gets honorable mention.
Dark Karma
June 20th, 2011
4:28 pm
Trade Marvin for anything that doesn’t have mold growing on it….
Grandmaster JeJe
June 20th, 2011
4:29 pm
Buddy, that interview with LD was a joke
The first half was about the Mavericks. Then he says addition by subtraction (I couldn’t post this sooner – the comments section on the blog was down). His clarification made no sense either.
It was funny also seeing Sund’s areas for improvement.
I was expecting Sund to mention every possible area as an area for improvement. Then he says “maybe one is more important than the other.”
This guy is an idiot.
LD and Sund will be gone in a year’s time. Hopefully BASG is gone too.
Only addition by subtraction I see is if the others sell the team and we get a new GM and coaching staff.
Dallas has guys like Dwane Casey and Terry Stotts (former head coach) on their staff.
We have Bob “chew gum” Bender as an assistant. Who the hell are our assistants?
Buddy Grizzard
June 20th, 2011
4:29 pm
“Not 100 % sure but I think so. Taking back Jamison for 1 year works also.” – Grandad
Grandad you are correct. Joe for Antawn straight up works. His salary is $13,358,905. Therefore it would work straight up with Cleveland’s traded player exception of $14,500,000 from the LeBron James trade.
The Hawks could get out from under Joe’s contract by trading him for Antawn Jamison and letting the deal expire after next season, or they could use that expiring contract as trade bait.
OR… the Hawks could trade Joe to Cleveland straight up for the #1 overall draft pick and take…
DERRICK WILLIAMS!!!!!!!
Buddy Grizzard
June 20th, 2011
4:34 pm
“Only addition by subtraction I see is if the others sell the team and we get a new GM and coaching staff.” Grandmaster JeJe
LOL…
Subtract:
ASG
LD
Sund