Atlanta Hawks: Room for prospects
To hear Rick Sund and Dave Pendergraft talk today, the Hawks have changed their thinking when it comes to second-round draft picks.
Don’t expect the Hawks to draft another international project and either leave him playing overseas (Sergey Gladyr) or banish him to the far end of the bench/D-League (Pape Sy). More likely they will target a collegiate senior and, Pendergraft says, they expect to buck the odds and find a useful player at No. 48.
“We are not approaching this like there is luck involved,” he said. “We are approaching it like, ‘This is our pick and somebody we expect to make our team.’ And hopefully, if there is an injury, you can plug [the rookie] in there and they will be able to help.”
Perhaps more significantly, the Hawks might finally be to the point where there doesn’t have to be an injury to to the rotation guys for young guys to play. Sure, that might happen by necessity with just seven players under (guaranteed) contract next season and no financial flexibility (under the current CBA), but it still would represent a change in direction for the organization.
Asked if there is room on the roster for a promising second-round pick to get minutes, Pendergraft said:”What you have to weigh is, if we take a collegiate player and he is put in the same situation as Josh Powell or Etan Thomas, could they do as well or better?”
The other question, of course, is if the coach would play a rookie who is as good as those guys, but one thing at a time.
Sund said the Hawks are likely to draft the best available talent.
“It’s safe to say that, but I’m not going to commit to it,” he said. “I think you look at it as a need that you have and the best talent and then you equate it. Is that talent significantly better than the need? If it’s close, you take the need.”
What do the Hawks need?
“We would like to get a little tougher,” Sund said. “Hinrich helped us in that area and that kind of trickled down to some of the other players. I always like shooting. Size, rebounding. All of those things. Maybe not one is more important than the other.”
What skills tend to translate best from college to pro?
“People that rebound in college generally rebound in the NBA, even if they don’t make it for [the long term],” Sund said. “If you are a good rebounder in college, generally a good rebounder at professional level. Or if you are a good shooter. Some guys may be good shooters but they need more time to get it off.”
The Hawks aren’t releasing the names of the prospects they bring in for workouts. Sund’s explanation was that the workouts are not as significant since the Hawks don’t have a first-round pick. He said the players the team invited to Atlanta are simply those the Hawks didn’t get a chance to see at one of the three group workouts.
Pendergraft said the Hawks invited about 20 players. Most are college seniors and only three or four prospects are centers/power forwards.
“There’s probably been more swing players than ‘bigs’ simply because of supply and demand,” Pendergraft said. “There are not a lot of big guys.”
OK, blog people, take those clues provided by Sund and Pendergraft (college senior, tough rebounder or good shooter) and look at the list of prospects and see if you can narrow down the Hawks’ potential draftees.
Sund has hit on some value in the second-round before: He got both Earl Watson and Bobby Simmons in the 2000 draft for Seattle (and then traded Simmons for Predrag Drobnjak).
“The process in the second round, [since] the percentages aren’t all that high, is patience,” Sund said. “We ask a couple different questions. Does he have one NBA skill? Another is, does he have size? Or is there a player that is a little bit opposite of ‘Do they one NBA skill?’ and do they have multiple skills? A lot of those guys, like Bobby Simmons, are jacks-of-all-trades; they do a lot of things good but nothing necessarily great. Those players do have an opportunity to make it as—and I’m using this in a positive way—to have more of a journeyman status over the years.”
Notes
- Sund on the possibility of trading into the first round: “This time of year there is always a lot of dialogue going on. There’s probably less [potential deals] with the uncertainty of the CBA and people unwilling to pull the trigger. There’s just as much dialogue but the uncertainty of the new collective bargaining might play into the timing issues.”
- Pendergraft said Gladyr will play for the Ukranian national team in the European Championships this summer. The team is coached by Mike Fratello and is in Group D with Zaza’s Georgia national team. “This will be a good summer for [Gladyr],” Pendergraft said.
- Pendergraft on Gladyr’s development: “If the NBA was a game of H-O-R-S-E you could bring him over now. But physically he needs to mature a little bit. Playing in the ACB in Spain, which is one of the better leagues, has been invaluable to him. It’s the fist time he’s really gotten structure. In the Ukraine their league just wasn’t as competitive. He’s only 21, so will he ever be an NBA player? I’m not ready to put a percentage on it. He can really shoot, though.”
- Sy has been working out in Atlanta with Magnum Rolle. Those two plus the team’s draft pick are expected to participate in a minicamp at Philips later this month.
- Pendergraft said the workout sessions so far have been better because of the prospects’ circumstances. “In the past we are sitting here [picking] in late teens or late 20s and you bring guys to your gym and they’ll come but you know in the back of their minds [they think], ‘Oh, well, I’m not falling that far.’ And now we’ve got guys coming in, they know they are second-rounders and it doesn’t matter where [the money] it’s all the same. It’s been refreshing the guys that have come in here have busted their tails.”
- Pendergraft on older prospects: “Most college seniors there is going to be some physical changes, maturation. Not like [with] real young guys but be some. Not all four-, five-year players are ‘what you see is what you get.’”
- There was a time when it looked like the Hawks might have a shot at drafting center prospect Jeremy Tyler at No. 48. He’s the guy who skipped his senior year of high school (while spurning my Cards), went to Israel, and ended up in Japan. But Tyler apparently helped himself in meetings with teams and now should be gone when the Hawks pick. “We interviewed him in Chicago,” Pendegraft said. “Having never spoke to that young man before, he really had his act together.”
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371 comments Add your comment
Buddy Grizzard
June 19th, 2011
6:22 pm
“OB – I doubt we win 46 games next season, but who knows? Maybe” – SteveW
Really? You don’t think with 4000 minutes of Teague and Hinrich playing instead of Crawford and Bibby we’ll be better?
drmaryb (*_-)
June 19th, 2011
6:22 pm
Ra’mon
Just stop it boy! You can’t shop a TPE. You have one year, (I think?) To use it or lose it. It was compensation for the rights to replace Josh Childress.
Buddy Grizzard
June 19th, 2011
6:29 pm
Drmaryb on the WC Holdings thing, one of our tv sports anchors interviewed Gearon and he said it’s not true and he doesn’t know why USA Today published it. He said he is not selling his interest in the Hawks. The sale of the Thrashers probably means the ASG have enough cash to continue operating the Hawks indefinitely.
drmaryb (*_-)
June 19th, 2011
6:41 pm
My Buddy!
Dang!
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
6:57 pm
With the 48th pick in the 2011 NBA draft, “The Atlanta Hawks decide to pass!” LOL
Yawn @ the 48 pick……………………Wow……………Go get the #2 pick and take it to the ECF for the very first time Sund!
“We don’t have one F/C that can do all 5; they either only go one way, can’t dribble, can’t shoot or can’t catch and go.”
Now wait a minute “Willis”. What are you talkin about?? We have All NBA AL @ F/C??
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
7:01 pm
@ Buddy, I heard some where that Gearon is worth at least 300 large…And the other 7 combine approaching 1 billion?? Dont know how accurate it is but that sucks Gearon is staying on board!!
Oh well the streak will continue; 41,42,43,44,45,46 years and counting into the future…MAN O MAN..
Gotta get outta town for a few days…..
EmirS.
June 19th, 2011
7:02 pm
In a twisted way…getting the Thrashers off the ASG books means more focus on the Hawks.
“Really? You don’t think with 4000 minutes of Teague and Hinrich playing instead of Crawford and Bibby we’ll be better?” -Buddy
Lol, are you as excited about that as I am? I really, really do hope there is no lockout this season. I’m really looking forward to seeing Teague run this team…IF given the chance. LD has no more excuses for this kid.
I also believe we will make a splash in the trade market this off-season. Even Sund has addressed a few of our needs. There should be nothing stopping him from getting us atleast something!
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
7:11 pm
Kirk Hinrich has never played over 2000 minutes for a 50 win team.
Closest he got was 49 wins when he was 26 years old before the major injjuries.
People need to stop trying to sell Hinrich as a savior. We lost 14 out of 24 games in the regular season with Kirk Hinrich he averaged 8.6 points in 29 minutes per game on nearly 8 shots.
He’s a good backup to replace a regressed Jamal but we are lacking in size positions and Drew will probably resort to small jumpshooting non defensive lineups.
Smith is in his second to last year we need to move fast. The depth charts of 6 offensively impotent big men who cant bang needs to stop if we want to win an NBA title. I thought that was the goal.
We get centers and draft Motiejunas and we can play him or get any rookie contract power forward in the league via trade.
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
7:28 pm
Hey Larry whats the backup plan when the Heimlich Maneuver, aka Tyrone Lue goes down more than once to injury??
Najeh Davenpoop
June 19th, 2011
7:46 pm
“People need to stop trying to sell Hinrich as a savior.”
A guy whose entire identity is centered around selling arguably the worst #2 pick in NBA history as a savior really shouldn’t be criticizing other players.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 19th, 2011
7:59 pm
The Warriors just offered Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins and Ekpe Udoh to the Magic for Dwight Howard. I wonder how long it will take Otis Smith to stop laughing before he declines.
ntrigue
June 19th, 2011
8:09 pm
We need to draft Alex Young from IUPUI hegame is great in the post and has a 15 footer he can hit consistently and plays good Def. He would be a good addition to our 2nd unit. If we dont get him we should take Trey Thompkins from GA if he is still availible.
Sautee
June 19th, 2011
8:17 pm
I fail to understand how Hinrich is viewed as an “oft injured” player. In 08-09 he missed 31 games but other than that year he’s missed a total of 39 more games in 7 seasons. That’s fewer than 6 per season. And some of those missed were the last games of the season before playoffs.
If someone averages playing at least 76 games a year out of 82, how is that “injury prone”?
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
8:18 pm
@Najeh Davenpoop
That’s a really weak argument and oversimplifying it. By my count the trade puts us at 4 incoming new players.
We improve over Jason Collins who is a career bust but he can guard Dwight, if he was faster he could guard and finish over Noah when we create for him.
BAM, we get that center 20 mpg center we needed in the playoffs. Noah or Boozer has to guard the 7′3 guy we will be running pick and roll with or the 7′1 shooting forward (D.Motiejunas) who can shoot over anyone and also pump fake and dribble into the lane and get fouled.
The inside out 7 footer type who can draw fouls at will and tip rebounds etc, the intangibles of height. Garnett, Dirk, Duncan, Gasol
You have yet to suggest what post up move Horford can try to elevate from his 10ppg in 40 playoff games. How will he become Amare, Elton Brand, Griffin, Randolph, David West??
The trade also vastly improves the bench Hinrich is cast again as a bench leader, Williams as a big 2 capable of getting to the line
Jordan Hill and Pachulia are 6′10 with 7′2 arms and 6′11 with a good wingspan, they are legit PF and C scorers against bench players.
That leaves the 2 and 3 to choose between the 6′8.25,7′3.5 wingspan, 250 lb Marvin Williams. Or the 7′2 6′8.5 40″ vert of Malcolm Thomas. who’s best comparisons are Granger and Hakim Warrick.
Both Hakim Warrick and Danny Granger can score the 13 points on 11 shots that Hinrich averages.
If Hinrich were black would he be a bust? If we want to win he’s a bench player and we need to surround him with [triple] post options like a Williams, Malcolm Thomas, Hill and Pachulia lineup.
Against Keith Bogans, JJ Redick, Ronnie Brewer That’s crazy size. We run screens we get easy cross matchups and layups.
……………….
P.S.
Darko Milicic shoots 48% from the field as a 7′1 big man and has near as bad a Wins Shared per 48 as Jason Collins, so don’t even think about THAT frivolous comparison.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
8:22 pm
Trey Thompkins has no post game. In fact it was mentioned on here he has the same extension as Al.
High fat % and unathletic. He’ll be a jump shooter guys.
Plus he’s not as hard a worker and we all read the weed smoke in public in Athens, GA (via the other blog).
This is not the help we want for the Atlanta Hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 19th, 2011
8:30 pm
If Thabeet had 1/100th the basketball IQ of Jason Collins, he might actually be a marginally useful player instead of the Iranian Super League third string caliber player that he currently is.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
8:39 pm
@Sautee
Don’t forget Hinrich is already 30 years old and he got injured on a routine play in the playoffs.
Hinrich is at the point where his minutes should be declining. The injuries and declining athleticism can be stalled if we give him the 12 minutes per game bench starter/Ginobili role and surround him with starter/fringe-starter talent off the bench.
Like Hill, like Thomas, like Marvin as the backup 2 guard, like Pachulia as an energy center.
Hinrich, Hill, Thomas, Pachulia, and Marvin can easily COMBINE as a TEAM to score 20-30 ppg against
Miami’s backups and Chicago’s backups. There will always be a favorable matchup there.
Hinrich against C.J. Watson.
Marvin Williams and Malcolm Thomas (who is an underdeveloped Danny Granger at this point) against the 2-3.
If Keith Bogans leaves maybe they get a shooter like Jamal with no defense and we have a MAJOR advantage there.
Deng will have to guard Josh AND Thomas with no rest. Asik and Noah will have to find ways to affect the game without scoring because we can counter with 6′10 scoring Hill or the size of Hasheem who is an AVERAGE NBA center (WS/48 10%).
So what he’s overpaid, he matches up GREAT defensively with Eastern conference guys Dwight Noah and Asik
He starts and plays a role on this team, Josh trims down plays the 3 and refs stop calling fouls on the bcuz key players ie starters get leeway.
Josh was so slow and a tad bit inexperienced guarding Deng. He should have fouled out against Deng when he played the 3 only the refs gave him leeway and the fouls to Collins on at least 1 play.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
9:03 pm
@Najeh Davenpoop
You can keep making jokes about Iran or you can look at the cold hard analytics and some actual footage.
I’m one of the guys who advocated starting Collins. We caught the Bulls by surprise and stole a game. Collins was too slow and could not stay in the game defensively without fouling and could not get into position to score. Lack of Speed.
Collins with guaranteed playing time last year
only 0.049.
5% of wins came from Collins and his IQ, ie setting screens pinning Dwight etc.
Career Share of team wins: 0.62. 6%
Collins last year: 0.049 playoffs: 0.048
Milicic career : 0.042
Hasheem career: 0.090
Jason Collins is as bad as Darko Milicic. JC played 13.2 minutes per playoff game and averaged 2 pts, 3 fouls and 1 rebound on 64%FG shooting.
Hasheem is literally twice the winner Collins is. With less experience. With potential to lower his foul rate. Hence the trade for Motiejunas, Hasheem, Hill, Pachulia and Josh Smith with Malcolm Thomas at the SF position.
Collins is Milicic at 32 years old. Your IQ argument is cliche, Revisionist of Collins actual minutes played and not well thought out.
Hasheem could have given us more points, more contested shots, quicker picks etc.
What Collins brings is invaluable, problem is we need more. He’s 7′0 270 lbs and 33 years old.
He MUST be upgraded to battle on the boards with SPEED and for someone we can drive and dish too for an easy high percentage layin. Haseem gives us that, Bogut gives us that etc.
33 year old pudgy centers with Hilton Armstrong, Powell etc (ie NO BACKUPS) do not overly concern Noah or Boozer or Asik or Joel Anthony or Tyson Chandler.
come on…
Isaiah Rider
June 19th, 2011
9:12 pm
The Hawks are doomed….signed Glum ( Gullivers Travels ).
brigadierjerry
June 19th, 2011
9:13 pm
dont know how true it is but latest on dwight howard
Probballdraft: The Lakers are trying to get in on the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. Willing to offer Bynum & Odom. More to come.
11 minutes ago
http://twitter.com/probballdraft
23 million from LA for 17 million from orlando. 6 million difference. So more got to come from orlando.
The only good news is both LA players have team options in 1 year.
Add artest, and walton, and LA can take on Zero. They get stuck with these 2 players for 2 years. But at half the cost of zero.
Bynum, Odum, Artest, Walton for Howard, Zero. Not pretty.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
9:15 pm
@Najeh Davenpoop
The abilities a center brings in setting screens, pinning big men and playing good team ball are invaluable in this league.
Which is why I understand where you’re coming from.
But at the same time you’re praising Collins “IQ” and lack of production when Hasheem has twice as an impact on the game.
Motiejunas and Hill at starter and backup 4, Marvin Williams and Malcom Thomas at the backup sg-sf are worth close to 30 points per game. Add Jeff Teague, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Hasheem, Pachulia and Hinrich and that’s an elite East Conf. 10 man rotation with ability to go big, or go small and uptempo.
We match up with Dallas,We match up with Chicago, We match up with Miami and they’re lack of depth and a point guard and center.
That roster is designed to reach the Finals because we have what many Finals teams/contenders don’t have: a bench.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
9:19 pm
not sure why anyone is concerned with Lakers but Weaknesses if Lakers trade:
- Lakers lack depth/backups at 4, 5!
- Kobe aging
- lack a ‘Power 3′ a big small forward which means lengthy 3s will be able to guard Bryant and make him struggle (ie Tayshaun Prince or Marion).
It will hinge on how good/healthy Arenas is coming back this summer.
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
June 19th, 2011
9:31 pm
We have a chance to get a younger center to defend Dwight block out and score on Noah, play Smith in the post, make Joe a deadly secondary/tertiary option that his PER suggests he is, preserve Joe’s minutes, turn Marvin into a productive contract as a 2, a chance to put Malcom Thomas as a 3, gain an edge on Miami.
Using depth and experience and Wins Shared of the backups that teams capable of wining 50-60 games consistently.
We lose a big contract in Al but become an attractive destination for free agents. We run the ball into the post or screen and rolls etc.
We hold teams to the 90-100 point area by putting opposing starters in foul trouble.
Once you look at the numbers This divestment decision is really too easy to make for a WINNING franchise.
As is the ASG may draft skinny bigs that arent even 7′0 tall. That can’t keep bigs off the board or score in the paint to make up for it. That spells loss.
Ken Strickland
June 19th, 2011
9:50 pm
BUDDY GRIZZARD-DJordan is a RFA so he’d have to sign an offer sheet, which his team could match. They would have the option of matching the offer, doing a sign and trade, or doing nothing and letting him go. If we get them to agree to a sign and trade, even if the offer puts us over the luxury cap, the amount will be reduced by the matching contract(s) we trade.
Therefore, if we offer Jordan a $4-5M contract that’s not matched, we could send them Zaza in a sign and trade, which puts us basically where we now stand luxury tax wise.
RA’MON-the Hawks actually have 2 trade exceptions. One for the Childress trade, and the other for the Jordan Crawford trade.
When Bibby 1st arrived, his OFF caused a 9pt increase in PPG scored. But his poor DEF also caused a 9pt decrease in PPG allowed. Over the last 1.5yrs, Bibby’s OFF dropped off by over 5PPG, and teams started targeting his extremely poor DEF. Jamal’s PPG also a dropped by 3.5pts.
Can you imagine how much of an effect he and Jamal had on our PPG allowed over that period, especially with teams targeting them both. With the mins they played, I’ll bet it was considerably more than 9PPG, and we still managed to rank 8th overall.
With Teague, Hinrich and Pape Sy, we’ll most likely see a PPG decrease. That alone should be worth a double digit increase in wins, because we lost more than our share of gms due to poor DEF, particularly poor perimeter DEF. What we saw against Dallas in the Finals was nothing new with the Hawks, except Spoelstra had enough sense to bench him, and LDrew didn’t.
brigadierjerry
June 19th, 2011
10:44 pm
Trading Sy and Horford for Rocket big men and #14 + 23/2nd rounder picks for Donatas & Leslie/M.Thomas etc.
You have made some interesting points on trades and what you feel the Hawks should make but do you really seem them thinking outside of the box and making a move you suggested?Your ideas arent bad the only problem I have is I am not sure how much you can rely on Marvin. I like Joe J as a secondary option because that is what he is. I have seen a lot of Jordan Hill. He isnt a bad player but watching him up here in the north his main problems are how hard he works and how much he wants it
SteveW
June 19th, 2011
10:48 pm
Buddy – With Larry still our coach, I see a fast start, and then a swoon. I do not trust LD to even have Teague in the rotation. I don’t think we re-sign Jamal.
And I think Marvin will regress slightly (Rod, I’m waiting on you to tell us how you can’t regress from nothing, falling down etc.) because of the back surgery.
So the equation of LD + Marvin regressing + losing Jamal (horrible regular season last 35 games or so in the ‘11 campaign)/ Sixers & Knicks & Nets & Wizards improving = Maybe the 44 wins of this season if we’re fortunate.
And I forgot the variable of Josh Smith Jumpers!
SteveW
June 19th, 2011
10:54 pm
I want us to go 82-0, but after this last season, and the horrific regular season LD had, monumental and record setting in a negative way, I would not be surprised if we are not a lottery team next season.
I sure hope LD proves me wrong, and becomes a great coach. I saw some hope during the playoffs
SteveW
June 19th, 2011
10:58 pm
Ken S – I hope you are correct. I don’t see LD playing Sy over token minutes most of this season. I know he brought him over, had ASG buy out his contract etc. But if Sy averages 10 mpg, I’ll be shocked.
Probably just take Jordan Crawford’s spot at the far end of the bench.
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
11:04 pm
@SteveW, you make some interesting points.. Another concern I have, will Teague be durable enough for an 82 game season? What if he goes down? There goes our vaulted perimeter defense?
Whats plan B? Didn’t Teague take a beating in the playoffs and actually hurt his shooingt hand right near the end? Since hes a penetrator he will get hit a lot..
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
11:14 pm
Derrick Williams= Throw out any negative scouting reports and seek some professional help asap..Make it so…..
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
11:27 pm
“SteveW
June 18th, 2011
5:19 pm
Was the Hinrich trade good or bad?
I think the answer is simple. It was good for the short term. LD would have had a charge of the Light Brigade going with Bibby and Mo’ every night into the playoffs. It wouldn’t have been pretty. And JC2 was pretty useless to us. An asset is only good if it is used, and no way LD was going to use JC2 under any circumstances, so he was useless as a Hawk, as good as he is.
Long term, losing JC2 and the #18 pick, probably a really bad move.
The solution was to have Teague start, have Bibby come off the bench, and we get to keep JC2, our first pick, and depth in Mo’. But LD couldn’t/wouldn’t, so here we are.”
Yes SteveW, it was a poor trade and so the Streak will continue indefinitely……..
nobody’s hiding..You can handle the truth, aka Genius…
Slimjr
June 19th, 2011
11:29 pm
“Arrogance will get you know where” “Pride comes before a Fall”
Quotes for the day….
Buddy Grizzard
June 19th, 2011
11:37 pm
“Therefore, if we offer Jordan a $4-5M contract that’s not matched, we could send them Zaza in a sign and trade, which puts us basically where we now stand luxury tax wise.”
I didn’t think the Hawks were allowed to make an offer since we’re over the cap and just under the luxury tax threshold. I haven’t read the rules but my understanding was that we could only make an offer as large as the available cap room we have, which is zero.
SteveW
June 19th, 2011
11:57 pm
Slim – Unless we sign a TJ Ford or somebody, I have no idea what our plan B is if Teague goes down. JJ backs up Hinrich.
I don’t think it will be Sy.
Now with Sy, don’t get me wrong. The dude has the physical tools, 6-7 225, great shape. But all I’ve ever seen him do is duck his head and drive. He looked terrible at the Point in the few minutes he played there in Summer League.
And with his build, he probably can be a good defender. But if your looking to be a top 4 seed or something, and Pape Sy is an option, you are in real trouble in my opinion.
Ken Strickland
June 19th, 2011
11:59 pm
I kept seeing Thabeets name mentioned so I decided to take a look at what he brings to the table for almost $5M per yr. Well, I saw that he gives you just about what Hilton Armstrong gives you, and for damn near $4M less. I’ll question the basketball intelligence of anyone who suggests Thabeet could help us in anyway, unless our goal is to waste time and money just to acquire height.
I’d also question the basketball IQ of anyone that would suggest the Hawks would improve by trading Pape Sy and AHorford, the NBA’s 3rd best center and a 2 time All Star, for a bunch of unproven draft picks, especially in a draft as weak as this one is. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!!
The safest and surest way to improve this team is to strengthen the bench. Predictions of doom and gloom for the Hawks have been made over the yrs based on the projected improvement of other teams. Yet, we managed to improve every yr inspite of those projections. Some of you act like these projected improvements will only affect the Hawks.
Are you telling me that if the 76ers, Knicks, Nets and Wizards improve, they will only improve their win totals against the Hawks? Are you saying they will have the same won loss record they had last yr against all of the other teams? I say if they improve that much, they’ll have an effect on the won/loss records of other teams as well, not just the Hawks.
I think the OTHER TEAMS WILL BE IMPROVED is being overblown. Just because a team, or teams, have improved it doesn’t mean we can’t still win against them, it just means we’ll have a more difficult time doing it. But if you’re looking for excuses to predict doom and gloom, then I guess it’s as good as any other lame excuse.
The high expectations based on having Hinrich and Teague playing prominent rolls has nothing to do with thinking either is, or will be, a star in this league. It’s based on the vast improvement they’ll bring to what was an atrocious perimeter DEF, as well as the improvement of the limited and/or inconsistent OFF that we got from Bibby and Teague.
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
12:05 am
I wonder if:
We might trade one of our 3 second picks for next season for another 2nd pick this season, or to move up for a player we want.
We might trade a future 1st pick to get into the 1st round this season for a player we want, if there is a team wanting out of the first round. There many times is a team(s) wanting to sell/trade a 1st pick for various reasons.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 20th, 2011
12:13 am
“I didn’t think the Hawks were allowed to make an offer since we’re over the cap and just under the luxury tax threshold. I haven’t read the rules but my understanding was that we could only make an offer as large as the available cap room we have, which is zero.”
Under the current system, you are mostly right. (The Hawks can sign Jordan to up to the value of the mid level exception.) But the current system expires on July 1, and free agency doesn’t begin until after that. So there is no way of knowing how much, if anything, the Hawks can offer Jordan or any other free agent.
SteveW
June 20th, 2011
12:15 am
KenS – I really do appreciate your glass half full approach. And we did improve in the playoffs. I guess my concern is with Coach LD at the helm, I’m not even sure we get into the playoffs. I just can’t shake:
His abysmal regular season performance. I mean, we were historically bad.
Keeping Teague (18.8 PER in the playoffs) trapped behind Bibby, who is being called the worst starter ever in a NBA Finals.
Playing Mo’ over Wilkens so much.
Not being able to reign in Josh’s jumpers
His refusal to play Jordan Crawford even in blowouts sometimes.
Yes, I have seen hopeful signs in the playoffs. But even there, he made some epic gaffes. The two foul rule on Al in that Orlando game has been called by multiple professional observers as the single worst coaching move in the history of the NBA playoffs.
Again, I’m hoping against everything you are correct Ken.
But as I’ve said before, I don’t even trust Coach Drew enough to think he will play Teague on a regular basis. How many times this season did we say now no excuse, Teague is in, and he wasn’t in. Barely played against Orlando.
The LD factor has me pessimistic, not just the other teams improving. Forget the other teams, LD has shown me he was a horrible regular season coach. I gotta see something else for me to trust him.
At this point it’s all just speculation anyhow.
Grandad
June 20th, 2011
12:22 am
Ken Strickland
You did not burst my bubble.
Only sharing rumors.
McGee is not a personal favorite, but,
is a legit Big. So, in that regard, I’m for it.
I used to be a McGee guy, but he has not progressed
like I thought he would.
*[supposedly a knucklehead / with questionable B-ball IQ]
As for the Boozer deal;
Najeh said something akin to takin’ on other team’s bad contracts ?
My feelings exactly about the pursuit to jettison Joe’s contract !
What I’ve heard is:
DeAndre jordan will command somewhere near (ballpark) $10 mil.
*[give or take a couple of $ mil]
New CBA notwithstanding.
LAC will match – Regardless.
Buddy Grizzard
June 20th, 2011
12:54 am
“We might trade one of our 3 second picks for next season for another 2nd pick this season, or to move up for a player we want.” – SteveW
That would be sweet. I think this might be another one of those drafts that doesn’t have alot of star power at the top but may have surprising depth with the number of rotational players, even in the second round, that might stick with teams. I think Thompkins may fall out of the first round in which case you trade up in the second and try to steal him. I like your thinking because Denver traded a future first rounder to Minnesota to take Ty Lawson one pick ahead of where we picked Teague.
Najeh – You’re right I wasn’t thinking of the mid level exception. Jordan won’t be a restricted free agent until July 1st, so you can’t make an offer to him under the current collective bargaining agreement. So nothing will be known until there is a new CBA. But regardless, the Clippers are one of the few highly profitable franchises because of the market they are in. No way they let Jordan walk, no matter what he’s eventually offered (assuming restricted free agency even exists in the new CBA).
Buddy Grizzard
June 20th, 2011
1:35 am
“I guess my concern is with Coach LD at the helm, I’m not even sure we get into the playoffs.” – SteveW
I share your misgivings about LD. However, this is what I think is the key difference between 2010-11 and 2011-12 (assuming that the season is not lost due to a lockout:
In 2010-11, Mike Bibby played about 1700 regular season minutes for the Hawks. Jamal Crawford played about 2300. Most likely Crawford will be gone and those 4000 regular season minutes must be distributed among other players. Joe Johnson’s usage rate is already so high, he can’t really take alot of those minutes.
So who plays those 4000 minutes? Obviously it’s Teague and Hinrich. I don’t see him running JJ at point, but I do see him starting Hinrich out of spite for Teague. But Teague will still get minutes.
Hopefully the very public nature of LD’s stupidity with regards to benching Al Horford for an entire half of a playoff game will discourage him from doing so in the future. I realize the Hawks have the worst coach in the NBA, but I’m still optimistic because we have a strong defensive 3-guard rotation, 3 potential All-Stars and nobody has to cover Bibby’s and Jamal’s defensive mistakes/indifference.
O'Brien
June 20th, 2011
7:45 am
I can’t believe we’re talking about win shares to evaluate one player over another.
Collins is Milicic at 32 years old..
I will take Collins for $1.3 mil over Milicic at $4.3 mil.
And why are we taking about Thabeet, a guy who has been in the league a couple years but has done substantial in an NBA game?
KevinM
June 20th, 2011
7:54 am
Small minor rumore from Fox Ohio Sports….the realtionship between Chris Grant and Sund might create a move between the Cavs and Hawks.
It goes on to say how well Grant has done since becoming GM and trying to rebuild them.
Could the Cavs be talking about one of the captains? Will Sund really go into next season with little modifications?
KevinM
June 20th, 2011
7:56 am
Teague and Zaza for the #4 pick and Sessions? Scott did have Paul in New Orleans.
hawks_4_life
June 20th, 2011
8:28 am
Others say the Cavs are reaching out to Atlanta. No word on whom the Cavs would want (or if it’s even true), but I wouldn’t be surprised. Cavs general manager Chris Grant was once an employee of the Hawks, so he certainly still has some connections there. FOXSportsOhio
Geemack
June 20th, 2011
9:11 am
The Hawks have a horrible history of drafting even when it’s a top 3 pick, therefore I don’t expect them to better in the second rd.
The Hawks best chance at improving is to hire a defensive “nut case” as an assistant. Like Ken Strickland said before the culture of this team should be DEFENSE.
Geemack
June 20th, 2011
9:19 am
SteveW & Ken Strickland
I’m not sure how we improved in the playoffs. We still got beat by a team that was less talented than the Hawks.
The Hawks loss to Chicago because the Bulls played harder, hustled more, and play better defense in the 2nd round. The Hawks have more playoff experience and more talent. The Hawks should have been playing Miami in the ECF (No Boston, or No Miami in the 1st 2 rounds).
Dark Karma
June 20th, 2011
9:36 am
You know you’re s career spin doctor when you’re talking about adding an impact player at the bottom of the second round of the draft.
It’s no longer fun to laugh at.
Astro Joe
June 20th, 2011
9:36 am
Last week, LD said during a radio interview that he Hawks may do some “addition by subtraction” with regard to the roster. When the radio host pressed a little, he kind of backed off. Toronto and Cleveland both have TPEs that will expire soon if Stern doesn’t extend them beyond the current CBA deadline. IMO, addition by subtraction sounds like traded a player for a non-basketball asset.
I’m glad the Hawks are focusing on college seniors with specific skill sets. I think that is the best way to find a potential rotational player in the 2nd round. No mention of the great Cenk Akyol, does that mean that he is no longer considered an asset by the Hawks?
Astro Joe
June 20th, 2011
9:47 am
Oops, IMO, addition by subtraction sounds like trading a player for a non-basketball asset. Like trading a player who makes more than $7M for a 2nd draft pick and some cap relief.
Of course, not sharing the names of guys who they are evaluating could also mean that they are looking at players who clearly wouldn’t be around at #48… but may be around in the early 30s (Cleveland @32?).