Atlanta Hawks: ‘Detroit model’ still a lemon

THE HAWKS ARE IN DRAFT MODE??? WE DON’T HAVE A FREAKING 1ST ROUNDER. IDIOT SUND

MC, now that the Thrahsers have been sold, do you think the ASG will throw some more money into the Hawks payrol? We all know blah blah blah we have the 8th highest payroll or whatever, but we need more

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That entire post-Thrashers payroll and the money the ASG made off of the sale needs to go to bringing in a top-flight guy like Dwight Howard. After turning the screws on Thrashers fans, they really need to make the Hawks great. I don’t care if they become the Yankees (with a salary cap) of the NBA. Making the Hawks a team that can compete straight up with Miami would go a long way towards building faith with the fans (like myself) that are currently revolted with them (ASG).

After all, they’re not losing all that money on a hickey team they don’t want anymore right?

Also, bring some pre-season NHL to Atlanta. It’s the least they could do… like the old days at the Omni.

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The only reason Marvin is getting surgery is that it was too stressful for him to work out at UNC *AND* work toward his African Studies Degree, so now he conveniently got surgery so he can focus exclusively on his degree

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Enter your comments here

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Najeh killing it on previous blog:
.
“I think other than–Oklahoma City and Chicago were the only two teams that didn’t have a lot of highs and lows during the season. Certainly LA did and Dallas did and Miami did. Your [media] colleagues had Spoelstra fired three times. So it’s been up and down and we fell right into that. We’ve been up and down. ”

Yeah, I remember all those times when LA and Dallas and Miami were losing by 30 at home to .500 teams.

“In some ways it might be a little bit like Dallas, although we were younger than Dallas.”

Yeah, I see where the Hawks have a future Hall of Famer as a go-to guy on the current roster. Of course.

“When you have a good team, it’s difficult to get someone who is drafted [even] in the first round to come in and play right away. ”

Sure, if your coaching staff is comprised of incompetent buffoons who don’t know anything about developing young players.

“The core group of our players have, I think, improved every single year.”

I guess Jeff Teague is the only member of the core group.

“Or unless you happen to have–a few years back when they had free-agent money, to get one in free agency.”

Which, of course, the Hawks couldn’t do because Sund decided to give $20 million worth of annual salary to Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, and Zaza Pachulia in the summer of 2009.

“And to his credit, I think most of the time he has had an opportunity. . . . .”

…to collect splinters on his ass.

“I make comparisons to Larry with Nate McMillan.”

Coming from a front office that likes to compare Smoove to LeBron James, maybe they should stay away from comparisons altogether.

“There are only three teams that have made it to the conference semifinals three consecutive years: L.A., Boston and us.”

I’m surprised it took him this long to pull that out of the deck.

“Carmelo Anthony, who was probably one of the most sought after players during the trade deal, he’s only made it to the second round once. ”

He has also made it to the conference finals once, which is something this franchise HAS NEVER DONE IN THEIR ENTIRE EXISTENCE IN THIS CITY OMG QUIT SPINNING EVERYTHING YOU DOUCHEBAG SUND ASDLKFJAS;LDKFJA;SDKFJA;SDLKFJ

“You had a situation where the Lakers, three or four games before the All-Star game, ‘They’ve got to break it up. They’ve got to make a trade.’ And then they came out of the All-Star break and they win 17 of 18 games.”

Which of course amounted to sh-t because they got embarrassed in the 2nd round and are now facing an offseason of turmoil and almost certain roster changes. Maybe they should have made that trade after all.

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Please no trades with Golden State. We have enough awful trade scenarios involving that team getting posted here on a regular basis without some SF columnist fanning the flames. Nobody on that team plays D and everyone on that team has inflated stats because of their uptempo system and lack of depth. If you are trading Marvin for Curry/Ellis/Lee/Biedrins, fine, but nobody of value should be involved in any trade discussion with them.

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MC,
I mentioned last week on Big Ray’s Hawks Fan Blog, I would like to use free agency to snag Golden State SF Al Thornton and Milwaukee PF Luc MBM (wont even try to spell). Not sure if either would come to ATL as guaranteed 2nd squad players, even if we threw out good offers to them.

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As for the original question, of course I’d rather be the Knicks GM. Supporting players can be found using non-lottery picks and by trading pieces that may not seem valuable at first (see for example Portland trading a bunch of filler for Gerald Wallace or Detroit trading the non-lottery pick eventually used on Smoove for Rasheed Wallace when they made their championship run). Star players are rarely if ever going to be acquired in such a way. The Knicks have a core that, flawed as it is, has a chance of contending at some point in the future. (I don’t think they can win a title building around Melo and Amare, but they can certainly make it to multiple conference finals, which is a place the Hawks have never been). Barring Jeff Teague developing into an All Star, the Hawks are not going to make it to a conference finals with this core.

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My bad Dallas made it to a 2nd round.

Dallas has a head coach [far] better than Larry Drew, an assistant who used to be a head coach [for the Hawks], and another assistant who any team without a coach has interviewed.

All we have is a lame duck coach and unheard-of assistants who have never been contacted about a head coaching job.

I hope Rick Stunk realizes he got a 1 year extension so he and LD can go out the door next June 30 and the ASG will hopefully sell this team (ARE THEY GOING TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON OUR PAYROLL NOW OR WHAT?)

FIRE SUND
FIRE LD
FIRE WOODY

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Both Billups and Wallace were 2nd Team All NBA in 06. the hawks currently don’t have THAT on this roster. Detroit was more than a team full of role players. they had clutch, hard-working starts with loads of BBIQ and a coach who understood how to get the best out of them. They also had a GM who understood what level of talent it takes to win championships, because he won one as a player.
I’m a homer, but we are NOT built like Detroit. they had more talent, grittiness, and intelligence from top to bottom. We still have a ways to go. I just get offended when GM’s make statements that they just expect the fans to blindly accept. I love the hawks, but I’m not disillusioned. They are not a Championship team in their current form. We need some vets that can still pay meaningful, solid minutes; and we need a coach with a proven system and a better idea of managing and cultivating talent. NO MORE FIRST TIMERS! go back and get Fratello. He’s a Hubie Brown clone.

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Smh @ Marvin -_-

I doubt we can trade him now (it’s not like we had much of a chance before this either).

Marv Needs to loose that weight (Think: marv’s rookie season) as it doesn’t seem to be good for his back or his game. He also needs to work on his core.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Marvin_Injury_122910.html

^ I knew this wasn’t over. I just knew it.

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In 2004 Detroit had a bench : Mhemet Okur, Corliss Williamson ,Mike James, Lindsey Hunter, Elden Cambell, Darvin Ham.

I know they had more for that title run but, those are just the first few that come to mind. We BARELY have three people coming off of our bench….2 1/2 most nights.

Look at Dallas, They got Caron Butler and Roddy Boubious in suits and they’re STILL loaded. The ASG has failed to get us quality depth and until we get it, i’m cool with riding this “Big 3″ of ours. It’s not their fault.

If you don’t have true superstars on your roster, you need WAVES of GOOD players (Very Good starters and Good bench players) in order to compete for a title.

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Note:

Superstar > Very Good > Good

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Also by the way if Marvin doesnt play to his potential even off the bench which he will play next year if this happens let pape sy take marvins place.

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Marvin’s game is terrible, and he is an injury waiting to happen. If I were the Hawks, I would try my best to trade or give him away for anything. He will end up being another Speedy Claxton. A 6′9 forward with back problems who has balance problems, and falls as much as he does is bad news. They need to up the insurance policy on him, because he won’t make it to the end of that contract. He will be walking like Fred Sanford in the next 2 years.

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What the hell has Marvin been doing the last month that he couldn’t get surgery a month sooner?

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Rod,

Marvin was drafted in 2005.

In 2006, he missed 18 games. In 2008, he missed 21 games (I think he had a back injury). But what does Rick Sund do?

Not only does he sign him to a 5 year deal, but he also did not let Marvin test the market, which led to him overpaying. All this despite Marvin missing over 20% of the season in 2 of his 4 seasons.

Way to go Rick Sund. Did you ever think Marvin might be injury prone? Oh by the way Marvin missed 17 games this year. And this is the guy who wants to make the moves necessary to emulate the Detroit model? I’m not holding my breath.

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Welcome back MC. I know I am probably the last person you are expecting this to come from but I missed you man. Hope to see the list of draft prospects they have coming in soon. Lastly, I disagree with the thought of Monta being sixth man. He is a borderline all-star just like Josh Smith, but I think Monta has the ability to do what he does well every game unlike Josh. Josh just does not know how to play his game against any player or does not have the ability to do it against everyone. The following trade would leave us with a better more stable team.

Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Zaza to Golden State for Monta Ellis and Biedrins. I would not push too much but if we could get them to send us Dorell Wright or a draft pick along this would be great.

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Check Monta’s numbers against the Hawks the last two seasons, and your number one reason to trade for him is already dismissed. Monta is nothing but a volume shooter in a high tempo offense. Why do you think Jerry West is wanting to trade him? With the exception of P. Gasol (who I think West was trying to help out the LAL), who has West traded that went on to dominate elsewhere?

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@MC

Just go ahead and say it!..You don’t like Marvin’s game..Fair enough , but you were not here when the hawks went to him and he averaged 14ppg for three straight years!..you came when his shots were cut in half due to Jamal and the Hawks quit going to him! Everytime i hear another coach or announcer talking about Marvin, they mention how the Hawks have refused to use him and love wasting high picks, by Not going to them or .Playing them out of position…THE BULLS COACH CALLED MARVIN THE MOST UNDERATED PLAYER IN THE NBA..no hating, but i trust his opinion over anyone on here and being honest yours too! Due to the fact you are a beat writer and he was coach of the year last year and has rings!

Grandmaster JeJe
“Sund also claimed Joe has been to the 2nd round 3 teams and listed players who haven’t been that many times, COMPLETELY neglecting to mention that CP3 and Melo have been to the WCF LOL”

CP has never made it out of the second round!..stop lying!

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New York has an expiring max contract in Chauncey Billups that will get a great player

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Michael……also missing from your equation is the lack of funds by the ASG to make a bold super-star move. This group has been behind the 8-ball since day one. When you want to dump everything just as you buy it, lacks dedication to building a winning franchise. We have been told they are cash poor and have little or no interest in the fans. It won’t be long before NOBODY cares about the Hawks. The ASG sure does not care! Why should we?

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Let me go on a slight tangent here for a bit. This is the 1st NBA finals where neither team has a solid post threat. IMO this is more of a product of the “modern” NBA skill set than something thats unique to these teams (not saying there aren’t good post players left in the NBA). Again MORE than so called “SUPERSTAR(s)” theory, whats needed more is a LOW POST THREAT who can not only score when its needed but also DRAW fouls on the other teams better players.

Even the ‘04 Pistons had this with Corliss Williamson (and when he was traded so where their future chances of success which is why they went through scoring droughts). That said, I’ve always Liked the Hawks talent but could you imagine if say whipping boy MARV were gone and there were someone else in the blocks who could get points from the post and rebound? That would clearly be a HUGE difference maker.

As far as swapping the Heat’s roster, thats a personal preference. If the HEAT lose. Actually win or lose for future year they are IN TROUBLE. How long do you think Wade, James and Bosh can keep logging 40+ minutes?? Bibby can clear out his locker after the end of the season. They have NO ROOM to make moves, no draft picks. They’re going to have to hope that vets will WANT to play for league minimums and trust me on this.

The league is gonna put some type of HARD cap in place that players will be looking for MONEY as opposed to merely joining a roster. The Hawks have flaws but their primary guys are still young (save for Joe but he still has prime years left). A couple of moves and god forbid a LOW POST threat and I can see better things for them.

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First off great discussion. I’m happy I moved here. That said, all I’m saying is that if you’re a team that doesn’t HAVE a superstar, do you fold your chair??? Like in life, you have to deal with the cards your dealt.

Teams like New York are mortgaging their future on someone that plays one way. A scoring SAVANT but can’t defend. I personally don’t think the Hawks should have given Joe SOO much money but I do think the dude is lights out as a shooter. I”m personally not sold on MARV and if there are takers, I’d look to move him. If he blows up so be it. I’d be curious from you all to hear whats the diferences between Drew’s and Woodson’s systems are and did the coaching change help things.

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Allow Jamal to walk or trade him. Below is a possible list of Free Agent reserves that will fit under the salary cap. Provided CBA does not drastically
change.

1. J R Smith 5 million Zsa Zsa pachulia 4 mil
2. Aaron Aflalo 4 million Marvin Williams 7 mil
3. Aaron Gray 800,000 Magnum Rolle 400,000
4. Kwame Brown 1 million
5. Ryan Hollins 800, 000

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No thanks to Brandon Roy.That seems like duplication of what we have with no improvement in areas of need, esp. considering JJ’s max contract and B. Roy’s suddenly 80-year old knees.

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The only way the Hawks compete with Bulls/Heat is to move JJ to the 3
and acquire another young scorer, maybe Nick Young.

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Detroit never had a superstar, but Chauncey was damn close.

Sheed was damn good and Ben Wallace was a top defensive player of the decade

What do we have that compares to the 3 above players?

Nothing

Amazed Marvin is even mentioned in this blog.
Most blogs, MC doesn’t even mention Marvin and we don’t even notice, because Marvin SUCKS

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LOL @ Brandon Roy

You cats realize doctors said he has 2 years left, playing 20 minutes EVERY OTHER GAME until his career sadly ends?

No Thanks. I’d even take Marvin Williams over that…I think

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najeh, can we bring riles in the swap?

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Before anyone strokes out about the Hawks’ situation, consider the following:
There will be lockout in the NBA. Stern is going to crush the union once and for all but at the cost of hurting a business that doesn’t have the market position of the NFL. And the NFL is doing a grat job of trying to commit hari kari.

Second. The ASGP has no intention other than selling the Hawks. Period!
So let’s take a deep breath and continue to try to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

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*great*

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Since no mention of LD lately, it appears he will be back for the thrifty ASG. He and Sund on one year contracts won’t entice ANY free agent to come here.
We will be back to Collins, Thomas, Rolle, Armstrong and Zaza as we need 6 limited centers on the roster to combat one Dwight Howard.
What about the rest of the league?

With our cap issues, and if we even get games in this season, we might end up with the worse bench money can’t buy. We’re up against the cap, and we have to have 13 players. Well, we will have 8, so those remaining 5 will be nothing short of SL and D-Leaguers.

We will be the last GM job for one Rick Sund. There is little to look forward to as long as he believes we have enough pieces…..

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Marvin had outpatient surgery today to alleviate what the team says is an “isolated bulging disk” in his lower back. The Hawks said Marvin is set to begin rehab immediately and is expected to return to full basketball activities in six to weight weeks.

Is that what made his ass stick out, and had him walking like he was 936 years old?

The Hawks are in draft mode. They will start holding workouts for prospects next week but, unfortunately, there will be no media access. A list of prospects hopefully will be forthcoming.

For what reason? We gonna draft Pape Sy’s cousin in the 2nd round? Or do we need another pick to trade for cash, so that Mike Gearon can get a few more lap dances?

Teague has two basketball camps next week: June 13-15 at Salem High in Conyers and June 16-18 at Wheeler High in Marietta.

Al also has two camps: June 25-26 at Emory and June 28-29 in Lansing, Mich.

Al needs just one camp. For him. With Rick Mahorn, Karl Malone, and Dale Davis. The three of them should whoop up on his ass until he gets back to being Mr. Rugged.

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I mean Thabeet was #2 in ‘09, while Harden at #3, Evans at #4, and Curry at #7 have all out performed him.

And if you go by the All Star team:

Amare was a #9 pick
DWade was #5
Ray Allen was a #5
Chris Bosh was #4
Kevin Garnett 5th pick
Horford 3 and JJ 10
Paul Peirce 10
Rondo #21

West:
Kobe #13 pick
Chris Paul #4
Ginobili was a 28th pick in the 2nd round (58th overall)
Gasol – #3 pick
Westbrook #4
Dirk was a 9th pick
DeRon Williams #3

It is bogus to say unless you draft 1 or 2 you can’t get a superstar.

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SuperStar model Detroit model;
it makes no difference really because you must have
good players period.
What is a SS, sometimes espn, et al, makes up superstars.
I’m not sure that Melo or even Amare are superstars.
I can’t stand LeBron but…he is a SuperStar.[actually a SuperDuperStar]
Wade, Dirk, Kobe, as well, but at some point there’s a drop off.
Detroit’s model had Chauncey, who in my eyes was a SS.
My definition of a superstar is, on top of being an excellent player himself:
“a player who makes his teammates better”.

I just think the superstar / top ten thing is media driven.

Is Al a SS ? … No.
Is Joe ? … Heck no.
What about Josh ? … He could have been, but sadly, no.

In the case of the Hawks;
we / they have pieces, albeit mismatched.
We must move some of the pieces to find better matches.
Then we should eliminate players who are a detriment;
as Pat Riley would say:
“your either in or your out”
and we have some overpaid “outs” that need to go.

Basically what I’m saying is;
in our situation, we must put together a team in the truest since.
Then find a player or two who are Chauncey Billups type supers.

Oh yeah we still need a 7 ftr and more rebounding, regardless
of all the other foofaraw.

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All NBA – on the 2nd team All NBA, not a single player was drafted 1 or 2
On the 3rd team, only 1 player was drafted 1 or 2

Of the top 4 vote getters behind them, none were drafted 1 or 2

Now on the 1st team, 4 of 5 were 1 or 2’s.

But Sund is still putting out bogus stats.

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According to All NBA voting, only 5 of the top 19 players in the NBA were drafted at 1 or 2 in the first round.

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My bad before. Deron has been to WCF, not CP3

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An unflattering assessment of Magnum Rolle from Draft Expess:

“Magnum Rolle too physically weak to get much done inside at WAC level, let alone NBA. Fades away on every shot, doesn’t hustle. Can’t defend”

But on some other spots on DE, it has some encouraging things to say about him..

I think anything over 10-15 mpg is expecting to much of Rolle during his career at this point.

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Booo!

I’m right there with you my friend.

Chauncey Billups: -aka- “MR Big Shot”
Drafted third overall in the 1997 NBA Draft by the Boston Celtics,
Billups was traded to the Toronto Raptors
Billups then played for the Denver Nuggets,
who traded him to the Orlando Magic.
He was injured & never played a game for Orlando
Billups was then signed by the Minnesota Timberwolves

In June 2002, Billups signed with the Detroit Pistons
free agent to be the team’s new starting point guard.

Now Sund + Pendergraph, get out there and do your job.
Find some players…..they are out there…..but you gotta work !
Quit wishin’ & hopin’ for one to fall in your lap.
Now get busy.

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Here is the time to get rid of joe, the warrior’s need a big guard 2 go with curry.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jyjjg9

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JJ, Marvin, and Josh for Ellis, Wright, Lee, and Beidrins?

JJ for Ellis and Beidrins I’m not sure I would do. Ellis is younger, but small and no D.

Unless you had him in Jamal’s role, and started Teague and Hinrich. Hmmm…

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http://youtu.be/F1iXKX3F8lw

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http://youtu.be/Ar-JA5Zh36g

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David McDavid and Steve Belkin continually show they are the smartest guys in the room.

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FC Barcalona is waiting Joe! Your jet is standing by at Hartsfield!

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Simple as I have stated many times.

Josh, Marvin, and Zaza for Monta and Biedrins: Try to get Wright or a pick also.

Monta is top 10 scoring and number the 3 in steals. He takes the same amount of shots as Mr. MVP but shoots a higher percentage. Anyone claiming he is a ballhog is a fool.

He would be your leading scorer, assist man, and steals guy if he put up same numbers he did this year with the Hawks next year and I love that because Joe is not a #1. Al nor Josh are capable of taking the load off of Joe and making him the #2 guy. G State is not taking Joe, they are selecting Alec Burks or Klay Thompson with there pick that’s why they want wings and bigs in the trade. We give them some of both.

Lastly, I like Josh Smith’s potential but his defense is blown out of proportion. He averaged 1.6 blocks this year which is not even top 10. He is not a good man to man or position defender. Monta Ellis is the best value you can get for him because you will not get a legit Center worth getting for Josh. Noone is trading you Bogut, Bynum, or Brook Lopez for Josh Smith. Chris Kaman would be a worse player than Josh only good to him is that he has an expiring contract. Monta Ellis is flat out better than Josh.

Get her done Sund.

Josh, Marvin, Zaza for Monta, Biedrins, and a filler

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JOE JOHNSON for MONTA ELLIS and ANDRIS BIEDRINS.

Breadown:
1. you get Monta Ellis ’scoring balls’ which JJ doesn’t have (about his defense, I don’t now of any player who has exploited a mismatch against him who hasn’t exploited going head to head against anybody else. Get what I mean, if the opponent scores in bunches, he’ll probably score in bunches against anybody else. Plus Monta Ellis is a great steals guy. A great addition to the highlight factory.)
2. you get a decent center/ man in the middle to free Al Horford to play the four. (hey we will play Orlando only FOUR games a regular season at most and seven if ever we meet in the play offs. Collins and defense by committee is still the best option against big Dwight, hey he could even move to the west)

3. fire Sund and grab the opportunity to hire Ric Adelman. Adelman IS the coach to tae this team to the next level.

4. next trade a package/combination of Jamal Crawford/Kirk Hinrich/Marvin Williams for SHANNON BROWN and MATT BARNES plus fillers (Luke Walton and hi high basketball IQ, the return of Joe Smith, etc.). Shannon Brown is the best off the bench SPAR PLUG out there, a great addition to the highlight factory. Matt Barnes is a decent wing player, had his moments in Golden State when given the chance, and is also a decent wing defender. The Lakers would want the talented point guard in Kirk Hinrich and the “potential” (yeah right) of Marvin Williams, and the scoring talents of Jamal. Hey pay the Laers to mae the deal. This will be for the best.

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Just a quick note on the “superstar” model that people have discussed is necessary to win a championship. I, for one, do not think that it is REQUIRED for a team to have a superstar in order to win the championship, but it definitely helps. Of course your chances of winning it all will be better with superstar players, but is it a requirement? No. Your odds of winning a title without a superstar in today’s game are going to be incredibly low, but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible. For those of you who know about proofs, the easiest way to disprove something is to to find a single counterexample in which the theory fails. In this case, you can recall the 2004 Pistons and you will have instantly disproved the cliche that a superstar is required to win a championship. Just keep that in mind.

Don’t get me wrong now, I’m not saying the Hawks or any other team shouldn’t pursue a superstar-caliber player, but I just wanted to clarify the fact that it is possible to win without a superstar. Teams without one are going to to have an incredibly difficult time attempting to do so, but it’s not completely out of reach.

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grandmaster…….all that money that will be saved by the ASG on not having the Thrashers????? You must be kidding me. This group have been bleeding $ for years. They are not going to do that any more. ANY extra cash will now go back into their collective pockets for all those many “cash calls” they had to pony up. This group was formed to make money and show a profit. They will now go forward with the goal in mind of stopping the bleeding and lining their pockets. Nothing wrong with that. It is capitalism at its best. These guys are not Ted Turner or A. Blank remember.

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What ’s peoples’ obsessions with Monta?

He’s tiny, plays no defense, and is not a winner. He has made the playoffs maybe once in his career. We need a SG who can DEFEND and who has size, not some 5″5 ballhog who I can’t understand when he talks

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JJ go ahead and play in Europe. Maybe you will get hurt and we can get rid of that stupid contract we signed you to.

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It was not a bad pick,

..Fair enough , but you were not here when the hawks went to him and he averaged 14ppg for three straight years!.

The problem is not Marvin’s scoring average. The problem is his invisibility, his lack of impact plays, and the fact that he misses a ton of open shots. Bruce Bowen only averaged 6 ppg for his career, but nobody questioned his lockdown defense and his ability to make the big corner 3 to help the Spurs win titles.

Everytime i hear another coach or announcer talking about Marvin, they mention how the Hawks have refused to use him.

Except for Thibodea, and the Hawks announcers, who else in the NBA have you heard made a comment about Marvin being underrated?

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Where is Monta going to play because Teague has locked the PG spot down. Will he replace JC & come off the bench making 11 million a year? If he is suppose to be our Jason Terry, then that’s cool, but what will that idiot Sund give up to get him!!! We need a real good shooter at the 3 spot, who cares if he can’t play D or not because Marvin is no stopper himself. This would open up the floor for Teague to drive & dish or penetrate & score. This would also allow J-Smoove to actually get back on the block & Al to play around the basket. I’m sorry, but JJ is just a complimentary player at best, he doesn’t have 25% of the desire or athletism that D-Wade displays every night even if Wade is not scoring. If we are trying to use the Pistons blueprint, do we have those cornerstone players who produced in big clutch games, do you remember that squad….. C. Billups, Rip Hamilton, T. Prince, Rasheed Wallace, & Ben Wallace…..everyone new their role & trusted each other to get it done….even with a hot-head like Rasheed!!!

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STRETCH

Agreed this would be a defensive nightmare for any team in the league, but my gut feeling is telling me the Hawks will end up with the headache!….due to the fact Rick ” Dumb ” Sund will probably trade J-Smoove or Horford just to get Monta!

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This team has shown evidence that it has no idea of how to evaluate talent.

Teague is a diamond that sat on the bench for 2 years and no one realized he could play, until they had no choice but to play him extended minutes. SMH.

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I meant; Here is

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Great title this is a lemon and has always been. Dallas is the same time over the last 5 years or so give or take a few players. The difference is Tyson Chandler’s defense and tough rebounding in the paint which we dont have because of the lemon we have with a bunch of 6′9 forwards. So here goes:

First order of business sign a center. My list: Tyson Chandler, Nene, Sam Dalembert in that order. Pay whatever is needed and go into the luxury tax. This team will be busted over the next 2 years if they dont win a title.

Second find a trade for Marvin and yes it can be done. We will have to take a bad contract back but at least that bad contract will contribute. I say trade Marvin and Kirk Hinrich for Baron Davis. We must find away to move Marvin at any cost, Kirk is cool but I believe Baron would bring more to the point guard position plus if they took Marvin as a filler we would be sending 16 million taking back only 14 million. Kirk contract expires next year so the benefit for Cleveland would be moving Baron and Kirk’s expiring contract.

Fill the bench with better players!!! And no twin is not a option at center in this league!

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Interesting take. Does that mean we’re all fools for following a team incapable of winning a title? That we have pinned our hopes on a lemon? It would appear that two-thirds of the NBA teams are lemons as less than 10 have a title banner hanging in their arena. IMO, the best we can hope for is to have our expectations exceeded. Forecast ~45 regular season wins and a first round lost and be pleasantly surprised by a competitive 6 game series int he 2nd round. There could only be 2-3 fan bases with legit title expectations to start any given season… I seriously doubt that even 40% of Dallas fans expected their team to be playing on June 9th based on their performances in the past few postseasons. So I’d suggest that success be defined as exceeding expecations… or you will be a frustrated fan for possibly a few (more) decades.

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Astro Joe

The Hawks have beeen in Atlanata over 40 years and not 1 apperance in the conference finals.

Add that to 9 straight losing seasons and still not landing a superstar.

So should the fans expectations be based of winning or losing?

If it is based off the 9 losing seasons then there have some success, but if the goal is to win a title then the Hawks are failing miserably.

The Mavs have at least competed for a title twice in the last 5 years.

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Bring in Monta Ellis i also hear Rudy Gay on block as well Sund needs to something before the CBA .

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well it looks like the trade ive been advocating for could be in the works. id love to get monta ellis in a hawks uni. maybe we could go al horford and marvin for monta ellis and biendrins. we could let biendrins and zaza duke nukem it out for staring rights and that would give us a good C rotation and let jason collins do his thing aainst orlando and have his spot minutes. meanwhile a teague and ellis backcourt would actually get us to the free throw line and ellis is an allstar in the east at 2.
teague ellis joe josh zaza bench kirk biendrins collins magnum 48th pick. can u imagaine how teams would have ro prepare for joe and monta? let alone teague driving all day and kirk playing solid team ball and josh smith giving us 17 and 9 as our third option?
if we land monta i see us in the ecf taking miami to 7 and that could be anyones game if we land our in/famous jumpers.
sund make this trade it will get asg to renew your contract and the hawks will be in the discussion for best teams in the nba. ellis is that superstar that we need. ellis just needs to be on a winning club and we will see his true potential. as for his many shots that was only cuz hes on a bad team and he knows he had to take em and for his D he will play better defense knowing it can finally get him to the finals
go hawks! make it happen

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I think also the Hawks should look at Brandon Heywood and Tyson Chandler if they decide not return to Dallas of course a lot will depend if they win the championship .

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Designing a plan to copy the exception to a rule is always a bad plan. Chasing after the data point anamoly typically leads you down a path to failure.

northcyde, don’t forget the dynamics of a HOF head coach and a collection of “throw-away” players who used their individual rejection to form a remarkable and unique team. Ben, Rasheed, Rip and Chauncey could each wax poetic about being “dissed” by other teams in their careers. And then that group of players came together like the Bad News Bears. And we’re supposed to believe that that is a repeatable model?

Give me 10 consecutive years of 2nd round or better seasons.

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Geemack, the funny thing is that my father used to LOVE sardines (with crackers). And honestly, it isn’t a bad combination. But eating stuff out of a can (including Spam) just isn’t advisable if you can avoid it.

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I say Hawks trade JJ Marvin and Rolle for Ellis Beidrins and Wright.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Then, after that we go hard after Nene in the free agency, and all of a sudden, we have one of the most dangerous lineups in the league:
Teague
Ellis
Smith
Horford
Nene
Bench: Hinrich, Beidrins, Wright Zaza
Reserves: Sy and Collins.

I could see that team getting us past Chicago.

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NORTHCYDE-you basically repeated what I said, but you did a helleva lot better job of doing it. Your stats brought home the message far better than anything I said. A lot of us Hawk fans were former basketball players at one time or another. And as such, we should be able to appreciate the attitude that can, and likely did develop with the Hawks under both Woodson and Drew.

When you are asked to contain your man, as well as work extra hard to compensate for a couple of DEF liabilities who maintains an open door into the lane, you start to develop and attitude and ask questions. Why should I be held accountable by the HC for not always being able to compensate for the DEF liabilities the HC insists on playing?

Why should I be held accountable, and not the player(s) causing the problem in the 1st place? Why should I give a damn, or care more about the problems of a player(s) that are DEF liabilities, when the HC obviously doesn’t? We all read where LDrew said he would hold everyone accountable defensively. We all saw where he definitely didn’t hold MBibby or JCrawford accountable defensively once during the entire season.

We definitely watched Drew hold everyone else accountable for Bibby and Jamal’s poor DEF, by creating vaious gimmicks to try and hide what everyone already knew, and so successfully exploited. The responsibility of taking this team to the next level isn’t up to the individual players alone. The primary responsibility rests with LDrew. He needs to stop the BS, lies and rhetoric and start actually holding players, all players accountable for their actions or inactions, especially on DEF.

We have far too many solid defensive players to allow DEF to be a major problem. It’s mostly negative attitudes and a lack of committment, rather than ability, that’s preventing us from becoming a solid DEF team. And those negative attitudes and lack of committment from the players, are the result of 6yrs of double talk, lies, BS, and the lack of committment to DEF from former HC MWoodson, which was carried on in yr 7 by LDrew.

We’ve witnessed the Hawks get serious about DEF and literally shut teams down, but it was never a sustained effort, nor was it done with any degree of consistency. That needs to change, and it starts with the HC holding ALL PLAYERS accountable, and quickly using his bench when he’s not getting the effort or results that’s need, especially on DEF.

The Hawks are a more talented team than the Bulls, but the Bulls are a better team than the Hawks. They have more structure, especially on DEF, and they have far better bench leadership.

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DS-Now that’s some solid reasoning. Heywood as a backup would be solid, and after trading Marvin, we’d have DWilkins, or maybe even Pape Sy, left to backup JJ at SF.

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The thing is, Haywood as a backup or a starter won’t help us compete with Chicago or Miami any better. Frankly I think we need a better a coach, and a whole new look to the team, but keeping the same key parts. IT’s hard for me to say this, but I think Johnson has to go. His contract is holding the team down, he plays stall ball way too much, and his defense isn’t all that great. Ellis is one of the best attackers in the league, and he’s become a lethal scorer. Nene is 5 times the player Haywood is, and he should be our focus in free agency. Johnson is getting older, so replacing him with a young, deadly scoring weapon makes sense, along with snagging a defensive monster in free agency.

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Marvin Williams will ALWAYS have back problems.

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Since 1980 the Lakers have been to the NBA finals 16 times (9 with Magic and 7 with Kobe) and won 10 titles.

The Lakers recently allowed the contract of their Assistant GM to expire. That should be the Hawks 1st step toward winning a title.

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will the sugery help marvin play/walk better?

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I’m pretty sure those deals for Kareem and Dr. J occurred before 1980. Kareem for sure.

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Ken Strickland – I don’t think we should go w/Teague & Hinrich backcourt. Not only are we smaller, but our bench would look pretty thin. I think Hinrich could take the 6th man role, and would actually benefit from it by being a combo guard. Plus, JJ is way more effective at the 2. Josh would definitely need to lose some weight and work on his handling to take the 3 permanently though.

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Hey, just saw on ESPN.com that Sixers/Clippers are talking Iguodala/Kaman trade …. if that comes to pass, does that mean LAC’s 2010 1st round pick Al-Farouq Aminu becomes expendable?

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Sund , get Marvins sorry AZZ outta here yesterday! That back has been an issue with his big azz before…Jettison the core Scottie..

Aye Captain..

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DET never ran 3 guards in 03-04
…..
“Both Billups and Wallace were 2nd Team All NBA in 06. the hawks currently don’t have THAT on this roster. Detroit was more than a team full of role players. they had clutch, hard-working starts with loads of BBIQ and a coach who understood how to get the best out of them. They also had a GM who understood what level of talent it takes to win championships, because he won one as a player.
I’m a homer, but we are NOT built like Detroit. ”

1stly DET won in 2003-04. They didnt get the 2nd Team Accolades until they had won.

Go back and watch those games. They had Rasheed who was 7 foot matched up with an aging Malone who at that point was putting up Al Horford USG%.
They had Ben guarding Malone and Okur.

They had a 6′9 rangy guy guard Kobe and on the other end made him chase and defend Rip Hamilton.
The Lakers put Rick Fox and Devean George at the SF spot to space the floor.

But Larry Brown saw a weakness. Prince would catch leakouts for his 10 points a game and He would put the 6′7 power forward Corliss Williamson at the 3, next to ultimate garbage man defender Ben Wallace and 7′0 Rasheed Wallace in the post.

Billups had a 16.4 PER and 40mpg in the playoffs. Teague had 17.0, in 30mpg this past playoffs. Yes overall Teague was more productive than Chauncey Billups the year Mr. Big Shot won the title.

Rasheed had 14 points on 4 FGA. How? He wasnt a stationary jump shooter and got fouled using his long arms leverage and back to the basket talent.

Basically Detroit went big and matched up with LA who was built on 2 players & had holes everywhere.

Hinrich outperformed Lindsey Hunter. We are built like Detroit its just we cant figure out if Josh is Ben Wallace or Tayshaun and we keep thinking we need
Al to turn into Amare when all we need is a shot blocker & 7 foot defender and shooter to spread the floor and score in the post.

Asik size and Noah size/speed killed us. Rose’s team has holes in it.

Billups > Fisher
Rip,

………
“MC, just wanted to say thanks for continuing to find interesting topics to write about for the Hawks. I’ll continue to read anything you post, and just glad that there’s still hawk talk for us diehards.”
……..

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Wizards, Golden State, Philadelphia, Phoenix

teams that primarily run a 3 guard-level rebounder model

i think we’re trying to become those guys.

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Labron going for 40 tonight!

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“Magic’s Lakers or Kobe’s Lakers?
We need a HUGE defender and post scorer at C.
We need a HOF or Head Coach Quality PG to be our floor general.
We need 7′ rebounders at SF & PF who can play D & Score.
We could go on and on.”

U know James Worthy was their #1 pick AFTER they won the championship. James Worthy is the reason the draft lottery was implemented iirc.

“Shaq & Kobe – 2 HOF Superstars + role players”

Billups 39%FG%[40mpg] – Teague
Hamilton [37/92 in 5 Finals] – Johnson (44%FG%)
Tayshaun (10ppg)41%FG – Smith 15ppg[40%FG%]

now is Horford the 7 footer who can guard Shaq and get off 23 shots inside out
or is he
the 6′9 super jacked ultimate role player who wont see an All Star game till he’s 30?

Ben Wallace 18 points 22 rebounds in close out game. Now granted this was against Shaq who was slow but come on.

Joe can obviously get up a lot of shots. Smith has proven he can cherry pick in the post ala Corliss/Tayshaun.
Even better he block shots.

Horford has already exceeded Rasheed and Ben Wallace in PER. He’s just not going to defend and rebound like Ben or shoot and alter shots like Rasheed.

Horford will never be the shot blocker we need to be or the scorer. Very very solid player but with him here we need a dominant center defender AND dominant low post scorer.

and our bench is still thin.

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Marvin Williams $16 million for two years and a 7.5 mil option for a 3rd year cripples the Clippers.

Clippers are looking for us or the 76ers to slip up and trade u know…a guy who can match up with guys like Lebron and Shawn Marion.
Who does Marv match up with?

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The Atlanta Hawks as currently constructed just need more focus and committment to DEF, and an upgrade or two off the bench. There are a number of fans that seem to be concerned about losing the OFF that Jamal brought. But this team would be much better off bringing a guard off the bench that provides less OFF and more DEF any day.

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The original Detroit Model had 3 combo guards(IThomas, VJohnson & JDumars)who could play solid perimeter DEF, penetrate and shoot. The 2nd Detroit Model had CBillups at PG, and he could shoot, penetrate and play solid DEF. The Hawks have spent the last 3.5yrs trying to duplicate the Detroit Model utilizing a starting and backup a PG(MBibby & JCrawford)that didn’t, or couldn’t, do most of those things, especially the DEF part.

This is the 1st time in well over a decade that the Hawks have put together a roster where 8 of the 9 players under contract have the ability to play good to solid DEF(JJohnson, KHinrich, JTeague, Pape Sy, ZPachulia, MWilliams, JSmith and AHorford). The jury is still out on MRolle, and we can add 2 more to that list if we decide to resign DWilkins and JCollins.

The truth is, we no longer have any players under contract that can be classified as DEF liabilities, especially at the guard position.

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Gilbert Brown of Pitt will be working out for the Hawks

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lol@Teague not the answer but Hilton Armstrong is a keeper. Any post that says Hilton Armstrong is a keeper loses all credibility.

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^^thank you cp

horford – double double

since when is 10 points and 9 rebounds the detroit model

everyone outperformed their positional counterparts in the 2004 DET model except Horford.

if you bring back Shelden Williams to match up with MIA, NYK, and CHI… well someone would have to be assassinated

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Honestly do the Hawks have any incentive to “matchup” with elite frontcourts and aim for a championship?

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LD preached discipline, accountability and toughness, but never got it out of our team. Is it LD’s fault, the players, the organization? Who is to blame?

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TYGER-I don’t understand your reasoning concerning JJohnson and JSmith. What do you think will happen next season that would cause Josh’s rebounding to drop from a career average of 7.7 to 6? And why do you think his scoring will drop to 14PPG after averaging 16.28PPG over the last 5yrs?

JJ had what could be an off season because of 2 factors.
1-He started the season with an injured elbow that ultimately required surgery.
2-After returning from surgery, and being on fire, teams made a committment to double teaming him, and MBibby producing next to nothing offensively made it very ease to do.

Having Teague and Hinrich will make it a lot harder for teams to be as successful double teaming JJ as they’ve been, especially if he’s moved to SF. You’re going to be very disappointed next season, because the Hawks will end up being a big surprise to almost everyone.

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Ken, they were a “big suprise” this year. lol. Almost EVERYONE degressed imo.

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We have to think in 2012 when HOWARD the best center of the league will be at the free agency.
I think that we have to prepare 2013 in 2011/2012, the year of the lockout, isn’t a year very important.

We have to cheapen the roster:
-Horford / Millsap and some utah draft rounds
-Kirk Hinrich / Mike Miller – Udonis Haslem (we’ve got teague and miami needs a PG)
-Sing this year JJBarea (2.5m?)
-Trade marvin and zaza (i don’t know how, but trade)

So in 2012/2013 we will have:
-Teague: 2.5m
-JJ: 20m
-Smoove: 13m (we can trade him too)
-Millsap: 7m
-DHoward: 18m?

Bench:
-JJBarea: 2m
-Sign JCNavarro from FCBarcelona. He says that if he win the Olympic Games he maybe will return to the NBA. I’m an fcbarcelona fan so i would like to see the captain in atlanta. He’s a very complet SG, the best of the spanish league. And there are a lots of rumors that barcelona want to sing Gran Canaria SG, Jacey Carroll the best SG after navarro in spain, and i think is because they know that navarro want return to USA in 2012.He knows the league and he is very inteligent. I’m convinced that we will win the olympic games Maybe: 2m
-Mike Miller: 6m
-Udonis Haslem: 4,5m
-Draft picks: 2-3m? i don’t know

So we will have:
Teague-JJ-Smoove-Millsap-Howard: about 60 million
JJBarea-JCNavarro-MikeMiller-UdonisHaslem-draftpicks: about 15-18 million

75-78 MILLION

So we will pay 10-16 million more ( i don’t know if we can have this roster) but we will have a All-NBA, one of the best interior pair (maybe the best with the zach-marc because in 2013 pau gasol will have 33 years), one of the best SG of the league and a allstar. Smoove is a very good defense player and he can improve this year a lot. And the key: Teague. He’s be very cheap and young and if he want he can be in the future an allstar (it’s difficult, but it isn’t imposible). So will have the best center a top 5 of shooting guards, a top 10 of PG, a top 8-10 of PF(in 2013 dirk will have 35 pau gasol will have 33 and garnett and duncan will have 37) and a top ten of SF.

And in the bench we will have an ACB’S MVP! the latest acb’s mvp in the nba were Scola Marc and Splitter (he will be a very important player in SAS, he was the best center in europe last 3 years)
And a lot of reliable players like Mike Miller and Haslem.

With this roster in the east conference we will be one of the three best teams with Miami and Chicago (I also think that Knicks and Wizards will be very goods team). We will maybe have best team that Chicago but than miami it’s difficult…
WITH THIS ROSTER WE WILL GO TO CONFERENCE FINALS

Sorry for my english ,
a young spanish hawks’ fan

2013 HAVE TO BE OUR YEAR!!!

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Would anyone mine letting J. Crawford walk and focusing on either one of the SG’s (AA or JRS) from Denver. Either one would be cheaper , we could also insert either one into our Starting 2 shifting JJ to our 3 start Teague at the 1 honestly I would keep Josh and Al as my Bigs but with added size (Another C) at the 5 with Zaza I would love to bring Kirk of the bench as my 6th man a vet with soild D and a steady shooter.

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JJ has to step his game up, and perform to his contract. That remedies one of the issues for the Hawks.

Josh should be wourking all summer with Dirk Nowitzki’s shooting coach. Don’t know how much can be remedied on this in one summer, but get to it, and let’s find out.

If Marvin comes bame from sugery, he has to perform up to his draft status/contract.

Hopefully the Hawks can find a Big Body that can actually play in the low post for Jamals’ money or some fraction of it.

Too bad Sund overpaid in the Kirk Hinrich trade. Either the #1 pick or Jordan Crawford should still be in Atlanta. There’s no doubt he was fleeced.

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I mus write – Al Thorton is from Georgia. No surprise he might be around here in the offseason. Perry is only an hour and a half from Lenox.

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“Does that mean we’re all fools for following a team incapable of winning a title? That we have pinned our hopes on a lemon? It would appear that two-thirds of the NBA teams are lemons as less than 10 have a title banner hanging in their arena. IMO, the best we can hope for is to have our expectations exceeded. ”

I think we’d all be happy if we at least got the sense that the DASG was making a sincere effort to bring a title to Atlanta. I don’t think, for example, that fans of the early-2000s Kings or the Stockton/Malone Jazz are disappointed with the effort their teams made to win titles. But there’s a big difference between doing everything you can to win a title and barely coming up short, and doing nowhere near everything you can to win a title and telling the fans they should be satisfied.

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If Gilbert Brown can shoot 40% from 3 at NBA range, then I’d be all for him in the 2nd round. He’s a 5th yr senior, plays some D, can rebound, a decent passer, just not athletic enough to create his own shot. Good size for a SG at 6′6″ with a 7-foot wingspan. Sounds a lot like Courtney Lee?

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Why does the AJC insist on closing comments on these blogs after a few days?

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36minutes 12 minutes
Jeff Teague (16ppg) Kirk Hinrich (5-6ppg)
Joe Johnson (16ppg) Leslie/Shumpert(5-6ppg)
Josh Smith (16ppg) Andre Kirilenko (5-6ppg)*amnestied/marv
….
[#14pick or trade](16ppg,8rpg) Jordan Hill(6ppg,3rpg) =22ppg, 11rpg
[Hasheem or Trade for center with .100+ wins shared/48](8ppg,8rpg) Pachulia (4ppg,4rpg)

97ppg
………………….
2 deep at every position. Scoring from center will not win. Attacking Derrick Rose with Leslie, Teague and JJ=cutting off the snake’s head

While we’re only seven games into the season and those numbers will surely come down to earth, it’s not a stretch to say that the 7-foot Lithuanian has blossomed into one of the best scoring big men in all of European basketball at the tender age of 20, and likely the most skilled power forward/center in the draft. Offensively, it’s getting easier and easier to see where the comparisons with Pau Gasol are coming from.

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If we had an ownership group that would spend, a Marvin Williams-Kirk Hinrich-ZaZa Pachulia for Andre Iguodala-Lou Williams trade, would work for both teams.

Hinrich & Meeks could back up Holiday & Turner. Marvin & Nocioni could back up T. Young at SF. Pachulia joins Brand, Hawes, Speights & the #21 pick in the front court.

Atlanta: Teague, Johnson, Iguodala, Smith & Horford, with L. Williams as the 6th man. Use the MLE on a center, and then veteran minimum deals to Collins & Wilkins, and we’ve got a solid 9-man rotation. Too bad we’d never spend that much money though.

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MC do you have any details on what the Hawks may have offered Golden State as they made their “exploratory calls” about Monta Ellis?

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was the offer BrokeBack Marvin? i kid i kid

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TERRELL-to say the Hawks regressed is a matter of perspective and expectations. Under Woodson we progressed annually during the regular season. However, we struggled to win 7gm 1st rd series the last 2yrs against lower seeded teams.

We were also totally none competitive both yrs in the 2nd rd. Under LDrew, we struggled a lot more than in the past during the regular season, but won handly during the 1st rd against a higher seeded team that dominated us in previous yrs. We were not only competitive during the 2nd rd, we actually had, and failed to seize, an opportunity to advance.

Now if your focus is on regular season rather than playoff results, like it was with Woodson, then the team definitely regressed this season. However, if you share Sund and the ASG’s vision of playoff results being the ultimate measure of progress, rather than the regular seasoin, then we definitely progressed this season. Like I said, it’s all a matter of perspective and expectations.

And let’s not forget the obstacles that had to be faced this yr. The team had to adjust to a HC, new OFF/DEF systems and philosophy. JJ had early injury problems that required surgery, and there was a trade deadline trade that affected the team. There were also periodic adjustments to our starting lineup that had to be dealt with. These adjustments and changes were never even considered during Woodson’s 6yr tenure.

These might seem like minor issues, but they definitely had an impact on a team without a dominant player at any position, especially a team that was very weak at NBA’s most critical position(PG).

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with a Marvin Williams surgery it is IMPOSSIBLE to trade him now

I’d do a Monta Ellis, Radmanovic (just to make the deal work) & Dorell Wright for Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams….in a freaking heartbeat I would……so fast…like a lightning bolt; quicksilver

Monta Ellis…although a volume shooter….plays with something called HEART. Dorell Wright as well.

We would lose the height and strength advantage of Joe Johnson and his ability (real or imagined) to play defense against 2s and 3s.

We would be small at the guard position but scrappy and explosive on offense and defense. And with the way Ellis, Teague and HInrich play….we will never be out of a game

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Ya ya ya Doc.lol

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Horford + Sy for Rockets Picks: sg-Travis Leslie, pf-Donatas “Zach Randolph” Motiejunas, Thabeet & Hill

You are the most idiotic and annoying poster I have seen around here in a long time

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@Ken Strickland we added Jason Collins they subtracted Gortat from the bench, Lewis from the starting lineup, Pietrus from the bench and Vince Carter from the starting big guard.

And added an injured Gilbert Arenas who may or may not recover.

Orlando regressed and we added a 7 footer. Nobody on our team ended the playoffs shooting above .500.

This roster (the “ORGANIZATION”) puts too much pressure on Josh and Joe to be superstars. They paid Joe like Pau (2nd star) yet failed to recognize Bibby and Marvin were not integral mismatches going forward.

Now we have Smith as our backup four getting easy shots over him by a subpar scorer in Taj Gibson.

Smith cannot score the 20+ points necessary from the SF starter and a backup. Its called lack of depth..
This roster going forward is a transparent loser. You need to determine if Horford will ever learn a fadeaway to shoot over bigs (3s?). At 25 history and his measurables says he wont ever be a dominant scorer.

if hes going to be shooting 3s now then might as well trade him for a competent 3 point shooter a center and a tradeable pick for depth. if Hinrich for a great bench 4 works then u do it and draft Leslie and Shumpert to man the 1 and 2 on the fly.

Johnson/Leslie
Teague/Shumpert
Smith {235 lbs}/ Kirilenko
–
Sanders{233}/Gooden
Bogut/Pachulia

and Smith even at near 250 lbs has significant rebounding advantages over Durant, Carmelo, Pierce, Granger and yes Lebron. If not score against them he crashes the boards better than Marion and Wallace.

caveats
* Teague works hard natural progression over season
* Smith drops 9 lbs. and tones up, stop including him as a stretch 4. If u guys had watched the games u know he rarely posts up bigger players. Against Deng he was crashing, fluid and active in the post.
We need more which means committing to Smith and repackaging him to the referees as a 3. Do this knowing that you have 7 other teams in the playoffs that don’ t want the Hawks to have a large active rebounding lineup.

Sanders adds 10 lbs at the 4. Bogut with Smith and his defense equals an athletic interior passing frontline. Quite honestly he shows a good jump shot and is already an elite defender but he was a negative on offense.

I like the rockets trade better.

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ISO needs some help desperately at the SF!! Josh is not the answer at the 3..The 43 year drought will continue if Josh plays the 3..No ECF visits ever!!!!!!!

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@brigadierjerry ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I sure hope i am wrong about that prediction, but Larry aint the ONE…

Philly and the Knicks coaching is far superior to our Atlanta Hawks thanks to Ricky slippery slope unfortunately…

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I would take Trey Thompkins, Isaish Thomas, Shelvin Mack, or E’Twaun Moore if they are available. I think all of them could be legit back-ups in the NBA, and that’s all you can ask for picking #48.

Now on the original premise of this article, would I rather be the GM of the Knicks or the Hawks?

At 1st glance, I say the Knicks. But when I look at Amare’s knee, which they say has at most 2 or 3 years left if he is lucky, and Carmelo and Billups hooked up with the wrong Coach for their style of play, I say the Hawks. We have some peices that if properly utilized, I say we can win a Championship with.

And if the Heat win a Championship, what does Sund do with his line that only teams with their major players in their 30’s win championships? LeBron, Bosh, or Wade are not 30 yet.

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Josh must get his weight down 225, he would be awesome at small forward.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Championship game a track meet tonite – I wonder who that favors?

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Joe has no fire, desire, or leader ship to take the hawks 2 next level, trade joe now if possible.
JOE, MARVIN FOR ELLIS, BEIDRIN
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yo Labron, WTF?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Rashad Lewis is in Lebrons head…….

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What ’s peoples’ obsessions with Monta?

He’s tiny, plays no defense, and is not a winner. He has made the playoffs maybe once in his career..

You do realize that before coming to the Hawks, Jamal had NEVER been to the playoffs, and he has been in the league much longer than Ellis.

^So what? Jamal had an awful Chicago series and had an okay Orlando series this year. The GW shot over Jameer covered what was otherwise an awful game. I can’t even remember what he did last year in the playoffs, but I’m sure he sucked in the

LOL @ REGULARS HERE WANTING TO DO JOE FOR MONTA + BIEDRINS

Biedrins is a paragon of toilet tissue. he is soft as hell. Monta is tiny

WE ARE NOT THE PISTONS. THEY WON THE RING AND WENT TO ECF/FINALS A MILLION TIMES. WE CAN’T EVEN GET PAST ROUND 2 (CHICAGO WASN’T EVEN AS GOOD AS MANY PEOPLE [NOT ME] THOUGHT)

FIRE LD

FIRE SUND. YOU ARROGANT MORON

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Mike Bibby, Larrys guy getting flat out killed out there……………………..Wow…

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Someone please explain to me why……

…is it that Al Horford *must* be plugged-into some “optmal situation” or “optimal line-up” in order for him to reach this …. (entitled) Hall-of-Fame status… that MANY deluded Hawks fans seem to feel that he deserves?

GREAT PLAYERS *TAKE* this status. They are NOT —– GIVEN IT or “put into some situation” that causes it to occur !!

Does anyone here understand the term TAKE? Or the fact that Al was fully mature when he arrived and not done anything that I described above?

Power and status are NOT things that can be GIVEN or “happened-by” in “optimal situations”.

These things are TAKEN !!!!!

Enough of Al Horford as anything but a damn good role player. That is all he is and all he has the potential to be.

There is no realistic “upside” with Al. MC — you and I completely disagree here. That about the “nuttiest” thing you have EVER written.

No coach in the NBA looses sleep wondering to how to control Al Horford!

It’s got to be a collective effrot or bust for this Hawks team — as it’s presently constructed.

The Hawks need to do (2) two things to win Championships.

1. NEVER put any weak defender on the court — NEVER —regardless of of their offensive prowess. (bye, bye, Jamal Crawford)

2. Have at least 4 guys that can CREATE (not just be set-up ala pick & pop) their own shot when needed.

There’s your Championship team with no “superstar”. They will win year-in and year-out — just like the Pistons.

Bye the way, the Hawks (as pesently constructed) don’t have this. You can’t mix strong and weak and come-up with anything other that mediocre.

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38-43 wins…………..Yawn

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Now Orlando did add Jason Richardson besides Arenas, to be fair….

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Pipen spoek to soon I guess?

Labron ZERO points in the 4th again?????????????/
What the heck is going on dude? Kid is lockin you down along with the rotating defenses..
Imagine All NBA Al playing help defense like that???

Dream on………………….

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Busters & Ballers!

Dallas is ballin’! YEAH! Go Jet Go!

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One more win and LeBron can take his talents on a fishing trip.

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^^one more win for the Mavs that is.

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Saw an interesting posting elsewhere on comparing James with Wilt:

Since the beginning of his career, we’ve compared Lebron James to the greats. He has the dominant scoring ability of Michael Jordan. He has the combination of size and passing of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. But I believe the best comparison may end up being Wilt Chamberlain.

Both Lebron and Wilt are among the athletic greatest talents any sport has seen. They are men among boys physically. On top of this they possess superior basketball IQ and skill. Both players are larger than life stars.

What makes judging Wilt’s career so frustrating is a comparative lack of domination compared to other greats. The Big Dipper ended up with 2 titles, one in ’67 with Philadelphia and one in ’72 with the LA Lakers. His contemporary Bill Russell won 11 titles in 13 years. Most noteably Russell came out on top in ‘68 and ‘69 when his team had aged and Wilt seemingly had the superior talent beside him. First with Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker, Luke Jackson and Wali Jones in Philadelphia, and then with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in LA. Yet Russell’s Celtics were a better team who won with defense, effort and supporting each other’s games. Wilt can be excused for not winning titles the first half of his career with less help than Russell, but in 68 and 69 he has no excuse. The truth is these two seasons take Wilt out of the greatest of all time discussions. If a greatest ever candidate, he wins in those seasons. Period.

One could blame lack of depth or coaching for the Lakers ‘69 failure, and one could point the finger at teammates disappearing in ‘68. But I’ve always felt Wilt lacked the championship character of stars like Russell, Jordan, Bird and Magic. That desire to win and competitiveness. That commitment to their team winning. Wilt was as much about Wilt as the team. He notoriously loved his statistical accomplishments and his lavish off court lifestyle. His teammates in Philadelphia were great players playing with Wilt. His teammates in LA were superstars playing with Wilt. The Sixers and Lakers were great stars playing together, rather than simply a great team.

Lebron’s career path screams Wilt Chamberlain. 0 titles in the first half of his career can be attributed to a lack of help. But now he has Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, giving him more supporting talent than any star. Yet the Heat are lacking something. Sure, their record is near the top of the league at 43-19, a 57 W pace. But a 2-10 record against other top 7 teams shows vulnerability and fragility. This week highlighted this, the Heat blowing a 24 pt lead against Orlando and then getting drubbed by 30 against the Spurs. There is a line in the sand between the Heat and the Celtics, Bulls and Spurs who are great teams with one goal in mind. Whereas the Heat are great stars on the same court. The Spurs rely on each other’s games supporting one another. The Heat rely on each other’s game fitting on the same court.

Can this be attributed to Lebron? As the team’s biggest presence the team takes after him. It is undeniable he does not have the Michael Jordan, Larry Bird “win or die” gene. If he did the lackluster effort in Game 5 against the Celtics last year wouldn’t have happened. If he did reports of Eric Spoelestra scolding him for not playing seriously wouldn’t have happened. If he did I suspect the Heat would be playing with a competitive fire enough to crush the league. Winning a title is not all that matters to Lebron. Winning wasn’t all that mattered for Wilt either. Teams take after their best player and the Heat are no exception.

So much of the game is mental. A team who’s slightly more focused, slightly more intense, a team with players slightly more committed to taking a statistical backseat for the good of the team – will find themselves more succesful. When I watch this year’s Chicago Bulls play I see a team commitment to a championship run. I wish the Heat played like them.

Lebron is set to go down as one of the game’s all time players no matter what he does. As with Wilt, his stats and MVPs will give him defenders even with a comparative lack of team success. But the difference between Lebron and a player like Jordan may come down to the former lacking that singular championship desire. As a result Lebron’s most apt nickname may end up being the Little Dipper. Which at least for me is a mixed compliment.

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Obtaining Chandler and Haywood and ditching Dampier has worked out pretty well for the Mavs. I wonder if we are a similar move away somehow from competing for a Championship?

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Maybe LeBron needs Nick Van Exel to work on awakening his inner dog

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Miami is DEFINITELY benching Bibby in game 6. Problem is House is rusty and Bibby sucks. Chalmers is having a great series though

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If Chalmers is available, I wouldn’t mind having him as a backup PG. A 4th G behind Teague, Hinrich, and JJ. Been thinking that for a couple of games now.

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Waive Marvin
Wavie Larry
Waive Bibby
Waive Sund Slippery Slope

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I wouldnt mind trading Josh and Marvin for Ellis and Wright. See if we can develop Udoh in to a nice player. Starting lineup of Teague, Ellis, Johnson, Wright, and Horford. Use Hinrich off the bench, and pick up a 7 foot center.

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Not a classy move by the AJC to shut Big Ray blog down for the offseason.

Oh yeah, Let’s Go Mavs. I would really like to see JT, Dirk and Cuban win one..

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last week before the AJC shut down our only way to communicate our hawks thoughts/fantasies with other hawks fans/haters, i found out my guy monta could be on the trading block
http://www.insidebayarea.com/tim-kawakami/ci_18179859
i hope that link works
the warriors want more size and they want a bigger 2 guard(which they’ll probobley take at #11) they dont need josh smith because they are solid with dorrell wright at 3 and d.lee at 4. so plz dont include dorrell wright in any trades he should of beat k.love as Most Improved and they will not trade him. before the 09 season the warriors were the same team as now with jamal crawford, and jamal was a high volume scorer not known to play D. he came here and gave us a great 2 years and in that 09-10 season played amazing with clutch shots and his consistent off the bench production. how would monta not be a great add? he is younger than jamal, he is faster and more athletic than jamal. he is the best player in the NBA that no average fan knows. he will give us easily 20+ a game and with him doing that joe will be able to go back to 20 a game. all we have to give up is al horford. think about it. al is a 6′9.5 C that has pretty much peaked. he is not an agile 6′9 C like joel anthony that is always in the right place and is a great rebounder/pesky defender. he cant stop anyone taller than himself. all he has is that mid-range jumper that only holds up in the wear and tear of the regular season when he plays non-playoff teams big men who cant step out. al is a great player but he is a 6′10 12 and 10 C for the rest of his career and that does not triumph a 6′2 freak athlete who can score 30 every night. if we insert zaza as our starter we will be bigger down low and zaza can go 8 and 8, that doesnt seem like much but id take a 4 point drop off from my starting C if hes bigger and it gets me a SG that can give me 25ppg instead of a mediocre SG or SF(marvin or if we acquire a FA SG and move joe to 3). GS wants size and even tho AL doesnt have size he is an allstar C that is mobile and would be a good fit for GS’s style
11/12 salaries-monta 11mil biendrins 9 mill & horford 12 mill marvin 7.5
11/12 hawks
pg-teague/kirk
sg-monta/sy/gladyr?
sf-joe/damien #48
pf-josh/magnum #48
C-zaza/biendrins/collins

As for the ? MC posed, I would definitley take NY. You have a top 3 scorer in the NBA (Melo) at age 27 and a relentless big man that dominates and has a great drive to win (stoude). that city is a FA magnet and NY will be a eastern conf contender for years to come.

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If Ellis is coming in to replace Jamal then fine.

But other then that, I see no other reason for him to be here. As many others have said…he plays no defense…at all. Again if he’s replacing Jamal that’s fine. But given Drews offensive minded coaching, I don’t want Ellis and Jamal out there at the same time. Screw that.

We play no defense as it is. We have no depth. We have no rebounders. We have no one whose willing to box out on a consistent basis. Our fcous should not be on Ellis. We dont need another guard. We are fine at the guard position. We need permiter defense and post defense more then anything else. Those defenders in the post need to know how to rebound. There is no reason for us to be going after Ellis or Lee or Biedrins. I see no reasoning in this at all!

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SuperDuperBlogman;

“Trade David Lee, Kirk Hinrich, and 2012-13 1st round pick to the Bucks”

A Team cannot trade it’s 1st round pick away in two consecutive
yrs / drafts. I doubt the new CBA would affect that rule.

Since we traded this yrs 1st rounder, we cannot deal next yrs 1st pick.

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Grandad

June 10th, 2011
3:50 am

SuperDuperBlogman;

“Trade David Lee, Kirk Hinrich, and 2012-13 1st round pick to the Bucks”

A Team cannot trade it’s 1st round pick away in two consecutive
yrs / drafts. I doubt the new CBA would affect that rule.

Since we traded this yrs 1st rounder, we cannot deal next yrs 1st pick.

How you doing Grandad?

I know you getting old there but you do realize 2012-13 is the year after next. This is season 2010-11, next year is season 2011-12, and the year after is season 2012-13.

I know the rule my friend that’s why I suggested 2012-13. Take care hope to see you around later.

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Waive Marvin
Wavie Larry
Waive Bibby
Waive Sund Slippery Slope

LOL

Lame Duck and Slippery Slope… hell of a combo we got here.

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Steve W,

The irony is in 2009, OKC traded for Chandler. But they were concerned about his foot injury, and he allegedly failed their physical, so they rescinded the trade. Imagine how better OKC would have looked against Dallas if they had Chandler and Dallas didn’t (since Perkins gave OKC nothing).

Doc,

just think if jj was calling for the ball like dirk does or was as active physically when the game is one the line rather than becoming comatose..

Unfortunately, the ASG has paid him to be that guy, but (imo), he has never been that guy, and has no intentions of being that guy, despite his 6 year max deal.

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Ken Strickland

I agree that the Hawks don’t need to change their personnel, if they implement the type of focus on defense you mentioned yesterday.

However with the coaching style of LD that’s more of a dream than a reality. Therefore in order to maximize our current oppurtunity they have to address personnel.

It’s either change the coaching staff, or change the player personnel.

There is no way the Bulls should be the 2nd best team in the East. The Hawks should be right there behind Miami.

The other team on the rise next year is the Knicks.

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brigadierjerry

Well, Wilt was a better player than Jordan.

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“I agree that the Hawks don’t need to change their personnel, if they implement the type of focus on defense you mentioned yesterday.

However with the coaching style of LD that’s more of a dream than a reality. Therefore in order to maximize our current oppurtunity they have to address personnel.

It’s either change the coaching staff, or change the player personnel.

There is no way the Bulls should be the 2nd best team in the East. The Hawks should be right there behind Miami.

The other team on the rise next year is the Knicks.”

BINGO! There has to be change in either personal or coaching or both.. If not, 39-43 wins.. Knicks and possible Philly will supplant the Hawks and they will slide on down to the 6th or 7th seed..Slide,Slide, Slippery Slide…….Yawn…..

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@superiorblogman

Well, I read that article about those W/C Holdings folks that wants the Hawks/Phillips/Trashers(if they were still here) for 500 mil. I hope that this have legs and DASG will do the right thing and bail the heck out of here.

For the Ellis thing, the question is that you will have to give up one of the major core pieces for Ellis. If we see more 3 guard set or moving J.J to SF, then it will be a good idea but ASG wouldnt do that.

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Dwayne Casey is in a very good position to get a ring. I heard him described as Dallas’ defensive coordinator last night. I’m guessing that some of these GMs with vacancies are waiting for either Casey or Spoelstra to become available in the next few days. After watching what Thibs did in Chaicago, being a defensive guru is like having an Ivy League graduate degree on your resume.

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For all the talk of the ‘04 Detroit Pistons model for the life of me I cannot find where Larry Brown went to a 3 guard lineup with Tayshaun at the 4 and Ben/Rasheed on the bench??? :dontknow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIq6sjGn76o
“yeah and thats a tough matchup for Rick Fox. Corliss Williamson is usually guarded by 4s and they put him at the 3 spot. Thats a tough matchup especially down low.”

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I hope and pray that everything the ASG has their claws in continues to be a failure. Poster boys for how not to run teams….

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Doc – According to SI and others, ASG stepped in and hired Drew over Sunds head objections. Sund was hours away from hiring Casey according to that report.

So LD is ASG’s baby, not Sund’s

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Doc – Here is a little of that SI article I mentioned on the hiring of Larry Drew: From June 19th 2010

“Because, in reality, this decision sets up more people for failure than just Drew. If Hawks general manager Rick Sund really wanted Drew, he would have just promoted him soon after firing Woodson. That should have been readily apparent.

There is no way, after all, that Drew, whom the organization has known for six years, put on such a splendid display during his one last-minute interview, after Johnson had already agreed to terms with New Jersey, that he immediately unseated Casey or Jackson.

The thing that did impress is that Drew was willing to accept far less per year, with his third year the team’s option, than either Casey or Jackson.

As such, this undoubtedly puts Sund in a difficult spot because if Drew’s hiring does work out, then ownership can say that Sund recommended an option — Casey, with whom Sund worked in Seattle — that they did not choose.

And if Drew does not work out, they know that Sund always has the I’m-smarter-than-you hammer hanging over their heads, which no owner ever wants to hear.”

“

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if Orlando trades Turkoglu that person will have to be able to match up with Josh
and every 2 guard in the East has to be able to score AND muscle with Joe

in the past they would hide their 2 on Marvin

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Oh, and please, no more Joe “we need more blue collar” guys on this roster. Another excuse Joe. You go with what management gives you.
Your salary alone is more than an entire roster of blue collar guys for a 15 man roster! Get the current group of guys to give you more..you are our leader!

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@KevinM this thin roster has peaked. Contending teams have 10 man rotations and are 2 deep at every position.

We take our big 2s and make them 3s, make Smith our backup 4 etc. tis a joke sabee?

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“no more Joe “we need more blue collar” guys on this roster. ”

lol what???????????

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I just hate to have to watch another season of the hawks led by ld. I just hate to watch another season of watching the hawks with jj being the man with the ball in his hands.

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Slimjr

The Hawks will still be a top 4 team in the East. Jeff Teague will be a surprise that get Hawks back to 50 wins….if there’s no lock out.

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Teague has only one hurdle to overcome: Larry Drew, the puppetmaster who pulls the strings.

And he has yanked on Teague’s strings long enough to last his entire career.

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Iman Shumpert projects as a 222lb Jamal Crawford, think hes a lock for the 2nd rounder. a bit embarassing though because he’s local and FO has a rep for laziness

on the other hand look at all the European prospects that have yet to import

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Also looking at these playoffs i originally posted I wanted the Hawks to follow the Boston model but I think it would be quicker for the Hawks to follow the Dallas model. Big man who can defend like Chandler, point guard which would be Teague, etc. Problem is Joe Johnson is not Dirk who can carry a team on his back. Even years when Dallas lost in playoffs dirk was carrying team.

Also, unless LD is changed for Larry Brown, I dont see this team becoming a big time defensive team ala 2003-2007 pistons

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Detroit Model Maxims – i.e. guidelines that frame our thinking…

1. ATL Spirit has no money..
2. Our guys are Good, not Great…
3. Cornerstone, JJ requests players that do the “dirty work”…
4. There is a shortage of guards, whether you like Teague or not…
5. Half this team will be minimum wage players…
6. JJ, Horford, Smoove are the core…
7. Jamal Crawford nor Jordan Crawford will be back…
8. Hinrich is no savior, his expiring deal has value…
9. Hawks may not match this year’s performance…
10. Trades are the only way…
11. Nobody is giving away their promising players…
12. Whomever we get will have warts…
13. Shelden can do the dirty work for the minimum…
14. AC Law can run the 2nd team for the minimum…
15. They are role players not starters…
16. Starters will come by way of trade…
17. Hinrich $9M + Marvin $8M = Hamilton, Jianlian, Josh Howard, Prince
18. Remember, Abdur Rahim, Big Dog Robinson and Theo Ratliff…
19. Followed by Jim Jackson and Isiah Rider…
20. Things can get real ugly real quick…

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Hey Michael Bumblingham,
Boring article. We’ve been over the Detroit model about 26 times already in the last 7 years. How about breaking a real story, like, oh I don’t know……an offer to buy the team by minority owners for 500 million dollars? Maybe if you had any kind of relationship with anyone of substance in the organization (owner, front office, etc.) instead of them thinking you were a snake, then you could grab a scoop once in awhile. We get it, you don’t like Sund or the owners. You write negative twists to every story. Glass half empty. You’d rather be back in Miami, cool. We’d rather have Sekou back. You don’t think getting Hinrich and winning the first round was worth “giving away” a crappy first round pick in a crappy draft and keeping Jordan Crawford, who has major off court issues. Ok. We get it. Who were we going to get into Atlanta for 6 millions dollars if we lost Joe? Which superstar? We had 2 all stars and Josh was close. That’s a bad thing, right? Only team in the NBA to make the 2nd round three straight years while being under the luxury tax. Bad news right? Sund has drafted Teague and Crawford in his two drafts. Good or bad picks? Probably at least a B, but your grading scale is different. Check Hoops Hype more often and you can pretend like you broke a new story if you copy and post it real quick to your blog.

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Dwayne – “the east is weak” … you’ve got to be kidding me, East is stronger than the West … anybody who watches basketball knows that

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Steve W,

Mark Jackson, who has no coaching experience (HC or assistant), received a guaranteed 3 year deal paying over $2 mil each year (4th year team option). LD, despite his many years of being an assistant, received a 2 year deal paying $2.5 mil TOTAL (3rd year guarantee).

Doc said all along that the ASG is thrilled with LD. He got them to the second round (just as Woody did), and actually won 2 games. And he probably made one third of what Woody was making.

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ellis was drafted at 177, he may be 185 now.

But Rose is closer to 200 than 190 (drafted at 196). no way Rose is 6′3 190 with long arms; his body would’ve broke down completely by now.

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I MUS WRITE,

Lebron and Bosh should have went to Chicago.

Chicago only had money for 1 max player, so they would have had to choose between LeBron, Bosh, Wade or JJ.

Given the way Rose dominates the ball from the PG spot, I dont think LeBron would be the best fit. But Bosh or JJ should have signed there.

If I was JJ, I would have signed there. Bulls had a young star PG, and a HC who is known for his defensive principles, and has a championship ring from Boston. Plus the Bulls fans would have allowed him to start fresh.

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The miami heat coach remind me of coach LD.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Joe is hurting the hawks, with his lack luster desire to be the best, and with him dribbling the ball 18seconds on a 24 shot clock he must be traded if opportunity present it self, and warroir’s are knocking on the door for joe.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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@MarkeyMake

Dont get on Michael like that, besides that story about the protential owners come out last night (by U.S. Today, not AJC), besides they will have to adjust the cost since Thrashers (NHL, you could had the first minority owners, but oh well) is gone up north. I am hearing around 350-400 mil atleast and it is only two people versus the Dumb of 8.

The only way I give up Smith is for a CP III or Dwill, we just got too many questions, not enough answer.

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I don’t see why the Hawks would be interested in Ellis. Sure, he’ll score 23 – 25 pts. per game but he is not a good defender at all. The only trades that should be considered are trades that HELP the Hawks. Not trades that leave them in the same or worse shape. Made it to the second round so maybe they are one piece away from challenging for a title. With that being said, Ellis is not that piece.

What Sund needs to do is take a hard look at last season and subtract the negatives (I don’t see Williams or JJ as positives. Doubt anyone would want to take them from the Hawks though). And then acquire a proven all around team leader. Only a couple of those types are probably available but I see no harm in at least making the phone calls to see what it would take. The Hawks are close to competing but a superstar is missing. JJ can be outstanding as long as he isn’t the main guy you’re depending on.

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Apparently that story about the potential $500 million bid to buy out the DASG is false. Would have been nice though.

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TEAGUE, ELLIS, JOSH, HORFORD, BEIDRINS TEAM A

TEAGUE, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD TEAM B FOUR YEARS IS ENOUGH

GIVE ME TEAM A

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Another great point that sums up Lebron James i saw

James needs to put all that hype aside and man up. And learn a position. Master something. This jack of all trades crap dont win. I felt he would have been best at becoming a highly skilled power forward who playing in the paint. And use his passing skills to help his team when doubled in the paint.

He cant do that on this team because Bosh wont play center. He could learn to be a true PG but Wade handle the ball a lot for that. All that can be comfortably done here, is to make the jump shot automatic and be a 2nd scorer. I suppose he could be a PG. But I think thats more of a gimmick and will be more difficult with age.

And before some outsiders says im hating or bitter, I have always said this about james. Its impossible to build a team around him as is. He plays a floating swing position. And takes the responsibility away from other essential positions. He plays High School basketball. He has never been developed into a pro player. Its his unreal combo of size and athletic ability with his skill set that gets regular season wins.

You are looking at a super sized version of allen iverson. Marbury. Fransis. These are players that mimicked the ball domination of Jordan. But being young, missed the essentials of what made him who he was. The hardest worker and most determined individual on the court.

Maimi could still pull this out. But that wont change anything. James does not have that fire. And ESPN wont feed it to him. What we saw last night was a gimmick. A attempt to set up a bounce back game. A passive player that could not focus on the rim. So he tried to switch gears again and be something else. His team loses when he is forced to do this.

James needed to have the ball. And continue to attack. But there is a pressure to share the responsibility put on him now in Miami. For him to do this, Wade must fall back. And why do that? When its wade leading the team? While Wade was forgetting to limp, James is on his heals trying on hats. Never focused on a single responsibility.

James is who he has always has been. A young raw undeveloped talent that is big and strong enough to get past regular season teams easily. He needs to be developed into someone. Not the “king”. No king would celebrate a moral victory over a team he could not beat alone.

Part of the problem is NO ONE has stood up to the media created king and gave him a dose of reality. I question if he is mentally strong enough to deal with it when it happens

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Najeh,

New regimes dumping the old regime’s players is a pretty common occurrence across all sports..

The Hawks hired a new GM, but he basically resigned all the players who were here (except for Chills), and they even kept most of the same coaching staff. Rick also promoted the long time assistant to HC, the same assistant who the previous GM was not allowed to promote.

I wish the Hawks could find new ownership.

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“ellis was drafted at 177, he may be 185 now.

But Rose is closer to 200 than 190 (drafted at 196). no way Rose is 6′3 190 with long arms; his body would’ve broke down completely by now.”

NBA.com is the source….that makes it legit in my mind. And Ellis is not dimunitive. He needs to play PG though if he were to come to this team. That would push Teague and Kirk’s minutes down because Monta is going to get the big minutes.

Myself, I don’t think Ellis is as critical to get as a inside presence for both offense and defense. And I think Al and Josh need to split up as their talents are redundant. Those who want Josh outside the paint must have not watched many games last year. And its not pointed to the defensive side of things. But with Josh at the 3, his rebounds will go down That should be easy to understand.

Again, Josh and Teague stay, the rest of the ‘core’ bunch can be put on the relocation list. Standing pat won’t improve you in the least. Chicago and Miami blew past the Hawks last year….reminds me of the Braves…its not just one team that gives them fits. In the playoffs at home, every team gives the Braves fits.
But like many, getting to the playoffs obviously is enough.

Can anyone see a Hawk posing with the Finals trophy in the next 5 years?
Even during the series?

This roster has to be gutted like a fish. The coaching staff doesn’t present an advantage. Core no more IMO.

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LOCKOUT!!!!
JJ PLAYS OVERSEAS!!!!
GETS HURT!!!!
CONTRACT VOIDED!!!!!!!
WE START OVER WITH A CHANCE TO GET THE THRASHERS BACK!!!!!!!!

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Josh plays outside the paint as a 4. If he touches the ball as a 3 he plays inside.

I cant remember him posting up 1 elite 4 but I do remember him posting Durant, Deng.

not Amare not Garnett not Bosh

heck he can barely post up back ups!

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IMO, a succesful offseason would be trading Marvin for anything of value, and finding/developing some rotational players for the bench.

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Some of you are simply hung up on star power, and can’t think beyond that hangup. Some of the players you covet are little more than products of a given system, and that’s magnified when it involves teams like the Warriors and Suns.

How can anyone with a clue about basketball think Monte Ellis will be as effective playing in a far more structured system that actually expects him to play DEF? Also, how can he be expected to be as effective as a #2 scoring option who won’t have total control of the ball.

We’ve already seen him have issues trying to coexist and share the ball with SCurry. Do you dreamers really think these issues will simply go away just because he’s with another team? THINK! Why trade for another version of Jamal Crawford when we can resign the real thing for less, and without having to trade away a single player? AGAIN, THINK!

Wake up and face the facts. The Atlanta Hawks are going into next season with the same 9 players that will be under contract after July 1. And those 9 players are JJohnson, AHorford, JSmith, MWilliams, JTeague, JHinrich, Pape Sy, MRolle and ZPachulia. The key to how successful we’ll be this season will depend on who we sign to fill the remaining 4-5 roster spots.

If we sign a PG that mirrors Teague’s style of play, a shooter that’s not afraid to play DEF, and a mobile DEF minded big, we’ll be in the hunt for the Eastern Conference title. Teague will give us as much scoring as Jamal gave us last yr, although with less flair, along with a helleva lot more DEF.

When was the last time the Atlanta Hawks fielded a team where every starter is good to above average defensively, and has the ability to average double figure PPG?

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LESS FLAIR?? NO!!!!!!!!

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Super

I look at that from several different angles:
(1) I would not include Zaza (our only Center)
(2) I would not exchange Josh for Lee:
Lee would bring rebounding, but would further duplicate positions
without Josh’s versatility.
(3) It -Would- ! get rid of Marv.
(4) I like Monta & would rather trade Joe, but as is it makes no sense.

From a different perspective: [your 2nd trade]
(1) Now I like it as it get us a Big [5].
(2) We end up with Monta & Bogut and minus Marvin.

One other thing:
I would try to add in GS’s # 11 pick in the 1st round [this yr].

Final thought:
Sund does not have the chops to pull it off !

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brigadierjerry

Keep up the good work;
your posting so much good stuff,
which I can’t remember it all,
in order to throw you a specific compliment.

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ArtMan, I like your theory about Billy Knight and the Shelden Williams pick. Knight, in my opinion, usually chose athletes with versatile skill sets and Shelden does not fit that profile.

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trade Smith to the Clippers for Kaman, I’m pre-ordering my Smith and Griffin jerseys!!!!!!

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I still say that a backcourt rotation of Teague, JJ, and Hinrich is not that bad offensively or defensively. And a frontcourt rotation of Josh, Al, and ZaZa i quite good also.

So we need a better 3 and more depth to be a quality team.

Before I get any feedback about losing in 6 games in the second round being a quality team, quality teams don’t set records for the NBA and for the franchise of how many Home 20+ losees you have, and how many 30+ point losses you have.

Quality teams don’t set records like that.

But we do have pieces.

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If you really wanted to blow things up, trade:

Al for Bogut straight up if the Bucks would, because Al is soft. Bogut was 3rd team All NBA in 2010 wasn’t he before the injury?

Trade JJ and Marvin, our two worst contracts to the Bulls for Deng, Asik, Watson, Brewer, and the Bulls #28 and 30 picks in the first round.

The Bulls would at least consider this, because Batman would now have his Robin.

Then trade Josh and Hinrich to GSW for Curry, Lee, and we agree to eat Beidrins terrible contract.

We also eat Lee’s terrible contract. Josh is only signed for two years, and Hinrich for 1, so GSW may bite for monetary reasons.

You then start:

Teague and Curry in the BC, with one of the fastest BC’s in the League. And Curry is lights out from 3

Brewer and Watson back them up.

Deng, Lee, and Bogut give you a FC where at least everyone knows their role.

Asik, Beidrins, ZaZa, and Wilkens back them up. You also have Sy and Rolle in there.

Draft a couple of guys at 28 and 30 who can develop.

Man, could you imagine the screaming and hollering on this blog if we did something that drastic!!

Ain’t happening….

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In a more realistic scenario, we keep JJ, Hinrich, and Teague, along with Sy in the backcourt.

We re-sign Wilkens and Collins in the frontcourt/wing.

We try like crazy to get 2 of these 4 players: Battier, Hill, Prince, McGrady

And we draft a combo G, aka Shelvin Mack. I doubt Shumpert is there at #48.

Off season should be interesting….

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“In a video posted earlier, Rashard Lewis denies that he ever hooked up with LeBron James’ girlfriend Savannah Brinson. In fact, he says they’ve never met. Listen to the audio inside”

Wheres the entertainment reporter when you need her?

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If they will take Joe for Ellis, a draft pick and, a throw away I think the Hawks should go for it. If not expect to see Jamal there next year and the Hawks in up with Bubkis

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“Is Nash a sub-par point guard due to the fact
he’s never won a championship.”

A pretty large percentage of the elite point guards in NBA history didn’t win titles, at least not as the centerpiece of their team. Think Gary Payton (who did win one as a role player), John Stockton, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd (who is hopefully about to win one as a role player), etc. Right now it would seem that Chris Paul and Deron Williams may be headed down the same path.

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Here’s my rebuilding trade based on rumored draft wishes of several teams:

1) Al Horford to Minnesota for Wes Johnson & #2.

2) Marvin Williams & #2 (Williams) to Cleveland for #4, #32, and trade exception.

3) #4 (Kanter) to Washington for #6 & #18.

4) Trade exception to Dallas for Brendan Haywood.

5) Hawks draft Kawhi Leonard, Kenneth Faried, and Nikola Vucevic (32 & 48 traded if needed).

6) Free agent signing of AK47.

Guards: Teague & Johnson, with Hinrich & Sy as backups.
Forwards: Smith & AK47, with Johnson, Leonard & Faried as backups.
Centers: Haywood, with Pachulia & Vucevic as backups.

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@Grandad, I agree, Phoenix got robbed by the Chief Gangster and godfather. 06 was their year to win it all..They were on a roll!! The fix was in……

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Next season, Cleveland will play Baron Davis and Sessions $18 mil combined. In 2012, they will make $19 mil combined. And what will Cleveland do with one of their draft picks? Draft a PG. So they will look to move Sessions (nobody wants Baron Davis).

And even if they get Derrick Williams, they would still need help at SF. I think they would take Marvin for Sessions if it would be a straight swap. Unfortunately, Marvin makes $7.5 mil per for 3 more years, while Ramon makes $4.3 mil per for 2 years.

A backcourt rotation of Teague and Sessions, with JJ and Hinrich would be solid. But once again, we are stuck with Marvin. Thanks Rick.

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Can we call Monta Ellis what her really is. And that Allen Iverson light. Just like Iverson, Eliis is a high volume shooter. Who needs the ball in his hands all the time to be effective. If he misses a shot the rebounder needs to pass the ball back to him, so he can shoot the ball again. Too small to be the shooting gaurd. Doesn’t want to pass, so he can’t play the point. Can’t make the players around him better.

But unlike Iverson, I’ve never heard Ellis missing practice.

One thing I wouldnt want to see here is people wanting Iverson in Atlanta since he is now saying he wants to play again in the NBA. I saw the games when he came back to Philly he looked like he couldnt move. Lost all of his athleticism. He has the same problem Steve Francis and Marbury had when you lose you athleticisim you have to change your type of game. That was one of the things Grant Hill has been able to do and to a lesser extent Tmac

Grandad,

Thanks for the response. I know the discussion always talk about Jordan winners but to me Russell is the greatest winner. Also I think a lot has to do with this players personality since he is somewhat aloof but no one ever talks about how great a player Kareem was. Won on every level high school college pros leading all time scorer in NBA but no one ever talks about him.

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So in other words the front office does nothing to improve frontcourt rebounding? and also adds Grant Hill (didnt want to come off bench for Cs, relishes starting in career’s twilight); McGrady (as soon as it goes bad, hes a malcontent).
………………….
@SteveW said:
“In a more realistic scenario, we keep JJ, Hinrich, and Teague, along with Sy in the backcourt.
We re-sign Wilkens and Collins in the frontcourt/wing.
We try like crazy to get 2 of these 4 players: Battier, Hill, Prince, McGrady
And we draft a combo G, aka Shelvin Mack. I doubt Shumpert is there at #48.
Off season should be [lazy]…”

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The hawks will never play for a nba title until they sign a championship caliber player who will become the centerpiece for this team. If we just sign a player just because he’s a very good shooter and passer, we are just repeating the same old moves that have kept this team from competing for a nba title. 43 yrs without an nba final appearance is mind boggling. THIS MUST CHANGE!

We need players who are smart, coachable, mentally tough, committed to winning, can lead by example and capable of maintaining their composure from start too finish……only then will this team be able to compete for a championship.

OH, I forgot to mentioned. They might need to get rid of that cancer in the process. You know! The one who the referees like to make call against.

Smart Championship Caliber Players:
1) Tony Parker
2) Manu Ginobili
3) Tim Duncan
4) Chauncey Billups
5) Pau Gasol
6) Paul Pierce
7) Kelvin Garnet
Richard Hamilton
9) Kobe Bryant

If this franchise is ever going to turn the page from their failures they need to start by signing one of those guys or learn how to evaluate players like them in the drafts.

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and KG/Kobe play 30 minutes per game and declining with age.

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I dont know if the numbers would work but I would actually consider the following trade

Hawks send either Smith or Horford and Marvin Williams and a future first round pick for Scola,Thabeet, Courtney Lee and Terrance Williams

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RIP Mike Mitchell, 55 yr old former All Star and Cleveland Cavalier. His unsuccessful battle with cancer just drives home just how fortunate I am. Sometimes I tearup just thinking about how I had was affected by haviong a killer inside of me, and now I can move forward with my life without that threat.

GRANDAD-I’m with you. Wilt is the greatest player ever, no offense to MJordan fans. We’ve heard of the Jordan rules, but Wilt changed the rules that ended up making the NBA we know today. Because of Wilt the NBA initiated:
1-the 3 sec rule,
2-the rule that prevents FT shooters from crossing the FT line before the ball hits the rim,
3-the goal tending rule,
4-the rule preventing double teaming a player without the ball,
5-the 24 sec clock.

If I had to select one player to start a franchise, it would be Wilt hands down.

Wilt was every bit as good at rebounding and shot blocking as Bill Russell, if not better. But as a scorer and passer, he was head and shoulders better. No team bothered, or even gave thought to double teaming Russell. But Wilt was routinely double and triple teamed, which as I’ve said, caused the implimentation of rule #4.

Wilt could dominate any gm, any time, on both ends of the court, and in any one of several ways. He could dominate as a rebounder, defender, especially shot blocking, scorer, and as a passer. Michael Jordan, who some consider the greatest of all time, didn’t score, rebound, pass, defend in the multiple ways, nor dominate in all of the ways Wilt did.

I also remember when he considered become a professional boxer. He also drove coast to coast to coast without taking an overnight break as a test of his endurance. All of his exploits, and always trying to test the limits of his endurance and abilities, might be the reason he’s no longer with us now.

TO ALL OF MY FRIENDS ON THESE BLOGS, AND THAT INCLUDES EVERYONE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON’T TAKE YOUR HEALTH FOR GRANTED. GET TESTED PLEASE!

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Give them Kirk & Marvin for Ellis & either Charlie Bell or Vladimir Radmanovic

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I’m open to trading anybody on this team due to coaching issues and developmental problems.

Joe is beyond it. He’s paid and he won’t get better. In fact, he’s getting worse, and we can only hope he hangs around 20 ppg if we cannot unload him and that mammoth contract (we can’t).

Josh could have been better than Shawn Marion, Derrick Coleman, and Shawn Kemp rolled into one, simply because he is a better passer and shot blocker than any of them. He will not even be an all-star, however, because he is an idiot who lacks discipline in the worst of ways. Uncle Larry the favorite players coach of all time does not help this fact. The man is a fool.

Al Horford has the potential to this day, to be a solid all star player for several years. However, he will regress into nothing more than a very good player who can start for most teams if he continues down the path of least resistance. He does not fit great at power forward, but between him and Larry the Fool, the plan has been made already.

Marvin is not even on the radar. Nobody wants him, not even his own team. One of the worst #2 overall picks of all time. Easily.

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drmaryb, Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez…the down time brings the worst out of the trolls.

Dang, you know it’s bad when the trolls are scrubbing.lol

Peace Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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If this Ellis thing doesn’t pan out maybe we should trade up in the draft get Charles Jenkins out of Hofstra. I heard he was a dynamite scorer.

I think we also really need to adress our gaping hole at the small forward and center positions. We should go really hard after Nene in the free agency, and trade Joe, his huge contract, and Marvin for a high 1st round pick and a quality player, or trade them for just Ellis and Wright.

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Traded = Josh Smith for C= Andrew Bynum LA wants to move him plus they will get a new Center…

The Lakers are not looking to trade Andrew Bynum.

This is another worthless trade suggestion based on a false assumption. At least try to make it believable if you propose trades.

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“Traded = Josh Smith for C= Andrew Bynum”

lmao center’s are at a premium. The only way I see to increase all our toxic assets is if Hawks play Joe at the 1 with Marvin and Josh at the 3, 2.

This commitment to running and getting to the free throw line and posting up the 1 and 2s leaves Teague and Hinrich benched

but that’s ASG’s fault. We’re screwed and shouldve tried this against the Bulls

.Marvin scores 31 points on 14 shots as a near 250 lb 2 guard now all we need is a center to lift us to the elite

so what do we do? $120 million to Joe. Marvin is sadly a better slasher and set shooter than Joe.
Marvin sucks at the 3 and we couldnt see past it and offered him $8 mil to play against 3s a position Josh played better at 235 lb.

Hawks f****ked themselves so many times over the past 3 years. its insane

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Allstar- Tito Jr for the Super Star Derrick Williams!

I agree, Phoenix got robbed by the Chief Gangster and godfather. 06 was their year to win it all..They were on a roll!! The fix was in……

“slimjr. I agree they should’ve went to the finals but how exactly was the fix in if Amarea and Diaw came off the bench?”

They took one lousy step and were immediately stopped in their tracks by coaching staff does not constitute being suspended! Outrageous he is, Chief Gangster himself….Phoenix hands down was going home with the Hardware that year!!!!! godfather, is terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Derrick Williams is a #3,SF that will fill the seats! He is gifted in many ways like Joe! But is bigger, stronger, faster and plays above the rim. Will posterize anybody! Absolutely beautiful jumpshot with 3 pt range!.Can also shoot the mid-range jumpshot; on the move!!! Very quick first step with crossover capability for handles.. Dare I say The “Human High-lite Film remix!”
Oh did i mention he can post up with confidence???? Say WHAT??????? Bring him into camp and he will dismantle the 3 stooges………………….

Scottie make it so! Aye Captain……………..

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They took one lousy step and were immediately stopped in their tracks by coaching staff does not constitute being suspended! Outrageous he is, Chief Gangster himself….Phoenix hands down was going home with the Hardware that year!!!!! godfather, is terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rule is if you get off the bench during something like that you get suspended. Remember the Heat/Knicks brawl?Ewing hardly got off the bench same way and he got suspended but it was Phoenix fault for not getting to the Finals all those years.

You think Derrick Williams will be as good as Nique or Joe Johnson?I think he will be a good player but you think he is going to be a better player than say Jeff Green or Lou Deng?

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I commend LD for his efforts, but he didn’t get anyone to play to their strengths. Joe, Marvin, Josh, Al, Kirk all do best when they know when and where the ball is coming from and then go quickly or shoot immediately b/c they anticipated the pass. This motion crap leaves too much indecision and thus bad possessions.

I think Horford can improve. I think he relaxed a bit when he got the contract. Stars usually take a dip the first year after signing. I look for Joe and Al to improve next year.

The real question is can Teague maintain his confidence and can Marvin do the same as he strives to become Jamal’s role.

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Derrick has better handles than Nique but Derrick cant jump 47″ off the floor like Nique in his prime..But I believe Derricks vertical is more than 36″, I am guessing? Also Derrick has a superior Jumpshot than Nique as a rookie. Nique could not shoot from 3 point land early in his NBA career but he certainly tried like J not so smoove does all the time…..Nique worked at it and it got real good!!

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Allstar-Tito Jr= a #4 in the EURO League…………………………Yawn……………

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Crap’s about as usefull as all the trade fodder that’ll never come to fruition. We’re getting Monta, Dwight, Steph Curry, Williams, ect.

We’re getting 4-5 vet mins…maybe 2-3 new ones, that’s all.

We’re going “organic” like the rest of the state. Haven’t you figured that out by now.

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The success and failures of a pro franshise always begins and ends with the ownership. If we had good ownership, is there anyone on this blog that believes that Sund and Drew would still be GM and coach? The owners are content with mediocrity.

Sund has been and is a mediocre GM. Do you think Arthur Blank would settle for Sund and Drew? Do you think Mark Cuban would settle for them?

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“We’re getting 4-5 vet mins…maybe 2-3 new ones, that’s all.

We’re going “organic” like the rest of the state. Haven’t you figured that out by now.”

Your right! Ken said the same thing yesterday..I am a dreamer..Being a Hawks fan, thats about all you can do….. sigh….

43 wins……..Yawn……

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LeBron can’t handle it, but who could?
Jason Whitlock, FOX Sports
1 day ago
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DALLAS — The crown is too heavy now.

It crushed Tiger Woods. Serena Williams rejected it. Peyton Manning only wears it when it suits his needs. Alex Rodriquez had it stripped from his head by performance-enhancing drugs. A rape allegation dethroned Kobe Bryant.

Michael Jordan is our last global sports icon, and even he couldn’t bear the weight of the crown in this era. Neither could Muhammad Ali, Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth or Joe Montana.

LeBron James had no idea what he was signing up for when he accepted the nickname “King James,” tatted “Chosen One” across his back and teamed with Nike in pursuit of global-icon status.

There was no Facebook or Twitter when this all began. James had probably never heard of Skip Bayless or Stephen A. Smith. Cellphones didn’t double as cameras and devices to watch, send and receive porn. Hardcore sports fans weren’t in their parents’ basements dreaming of inventing Deadspin.

You want to understand LeBron James and why he is struggling in this moment, in these NBA Finals, despite Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh helping him with his crown? You must first understand the time we live in.

The crown is too heavy now.

It’s weighed down by the infinite voices with access to an athlete’s mind. It’s weighed down by our outdated insistence on viewing athletes as role models while scrutinizing their personal lives the way we would a politician. It’s weighed down by technology, the 24-hour news cycle, reality TV and the sports world’s embrace of celebrity culture.

The mountain LeBron James is trying to scale is much higher than the one Jordan, Ali and Ruth climbed.

Is James shrinking? No. He’s getting crushed.

In the self-described biggest game of his life — Game 5 of the NBA Finals — James recorded a harmless triple-double and a harmful, 2-point fourth quarter on a night when, because of Wade’s hip injury, the Heat needed James to perform Magic.

I’m talking Magic Johnson, the 1980 rookie who opened for Kareem at center and dropped 42, 15 and seven on the Sixers in Game 6.

In Dallas’ 112-103 victory Thursday night, James finished with 17, 10 and 10. Good numbers. Not enough. And not what Miami needed with Wade spending considerable stretches trapped in the training room receiving treatment on a hip contusion.

Of James’ 10 rebounds, only one was offensive. He missed all four of his three-point shots. He made a single trip to the free-throw line. He turned the ball over a game-high four times. On the offensive end, he left the low block in the fourth. At the defensive end, Jason Terry torched James.

James said he’s not bothered by the pressure of the Finals, of the fourth quarter. He’s in denial.

“We as a team, we played good enough to win again,” he said. “Put ourselves in position to win down the stretch. Everyone, guys made plays. They just made a few more than we did. That’s what it came down to.”

The final score says the Heat did not play good enough to win. Dallas closed the game on a 15-2 run. Miami’s penchant for late-game collapses and James’ penchant for fourth-quarter offensive disappearance in this series indicates there’s a problem.

“I don’t think it was a case of offense again tonight,” James said. “There was enough offensive play. We shot 52 percent. They shot 56 percent. We scored 103 points. They scored 113. The offense wasn’t a problem.”

It’s true: Defense wins championships. This is also true: Sometimes your best defense is a good offense.

In a single-platoon sport like basketball, when you’re blessed with unprecedented talent, you can beat up and demoralize an opponent so badly on the offensive end that you destroy his confidence on both ends of the court.

Dropping 40 on someone is intimidating and distracting.

Chris Bosh is a different player in this series compared to the Chicago series because Dirk Nowitzki is inside his head. Bosh has yet to clear his brain of Dirk’s left-handed game-winner in Game 2. It’s scary playing against someone better than you.

Jason Kidd, Jason Terry and Shawn Marion are not afraid of LeBron. They don’t respect his moves on the block. They’re thrilled James is shying away from driving the ball and challenging Tyson Chandler at the rim.

James is lost.

The Decision and this marvelous NBA season vaulted him to global-icon status. Thanks to America’s fascination with James, the anticipation for Game 5 felt like an NFL playoff game. King James is must-see TV.

We shouldn’t be surprised he’s having trouble handling the moment. There was no Skip Bayless sitting on TV dissecting Jordan daily. There was no Stephen A. Smith going on national radio insinuating problems in Jordan’s personal life. Jordan never tweeted or gave millions of detractors easy access to rip him.

Jordan was prepared to wear the crown by two parents and Dean Smith.

It’s a different era now. The crown is too heavy and many of the kids haven’t been given instructions on how to wear it.”

Interesting Take!
Miami in 7….

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Has AI grown up from his days of not thinking practice or the regular season games were worth playing. He’d reinforce the cancer that’s destroying this team. Lack of character, lack of professionalism.

AI = no thanks.

What’s up with the Bonzi Wells and Crittenton chatter in NY’s camp?

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“sf-derrick williams pf-B-easy C klove.”

Firstly Love hates the center position. Compromises size/defense.

2ndly, you cant start “B-easy” next to Williams. B-Easy is 6′8 and most small forwards would guard him and the power forward would harass Williams with their length.
Not that it’d matter if he’s truely skilled he can play around it. But B-Easy is an inefficient stretch 4 at best and a defensive and rebounding liability at his worst.

I think 3s would rather guard Smith in the post and force Williams to the perimeter as well. Teams have size for a reason guys. Its to force favorable matchups.

For example Lebron played with guys who were big to force matchups like the late Tractor Taylor just because they were big enough to draw the correct matchup attention.

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Lesson, Traded Josh Smith , Marvin Williams, and Joe Johnson this is there highest rating ever then take center Andrew Bynum , for J. Smith LA wants to move Bynum make the deal !! Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams to Cleveland for there 2= 1st round picks and C= anderson Varejao, SF=Samardo Samuels and in the draft take SF= (Derrick Williams) period hes josh smith but shoots better and has a more complete game , then take PG/SG= ( Iving or Knight) having C=Bynum, PF= Horford, SF= Derrick Williams, SG= Crawford ,PG=Teague as your starters and Varejao,( Iving or Knight) one may beat out Teague, Hinrick, Samuels, Collins as your back-ups;; this is a great young team your strength is inside for once not Depending on jumpers from JJ to win the game !!

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“tb-in-atl

June 11th, 2011
11:09 pm

Lesson, Traded Josh Smith , Marvin Williams, and Joe Johnson this is there highest rating ever then take center Andrew Bynum , for J. Smith LA wants to move Bynum make the deal !! Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams to Cleveland for there 2= 1st round picks and C= anderson Varejao, SF=Samardo Samuels and in the draft take SF= (Derrick Williams) period hes josh smith but shoots better and has a more complete game , then take PG/SG= ( Iving or Knight) having C=Bynum, PF= Horford, SF= Derrick Williams, SG= Crawford ,PG=Teague as your starters and Varejao,( Iving or Knight) one may beat out Teague, Hinrick, Samuels, Collins as your back-ups;; this is a great young team your strength is inside for once not Depending on jumpers from JJ to win the game !!”
Scottie make it so!! Aye captain….

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Ra’mon,

Its not that Kirk is a great leader. But he has not played for Woody and LD, and he has not been playing with JJ and Josh for years.

Therefore, his mindset will be a little different, and he has not been programmed to defer to JJ all the time. And LD is not uncle Larry to him.

So more than anything, we are hoping that as the PG, he will be able to make a difference in his play and his leadership (and on this team, replacing Bibby, he should be an upgrade in both categories).

But that is also one reason why Rick needs to shake up the roster and trade one of the core (imo). We need change, and Kirk wont be enough.

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Kirk will be in the starting lineup no matter what Teague does this summer. Drew has him in emergency situational mode only. Sad really that the fan base has to tell the head coach of the talent rotting on the bench. And our bench doesn’t have a lot of talent to waste rotting.
I will believe Teague has a place here only when I see it. The head coach is beyond common sense int his situation.
Now, to stay quiet this offseason without any veteran addition would seem like suicide, but I would not be surprised to see Sund depend on pick 48 for our bench scoring needs. He simply will say there wasn’t a deal out there that we felt made us better. What he will mean is no one on this roster is valued as high as I value them….and that includes Marvin!

2011-12 roster – Joe / Josh / Al / Kirk / Zaza / Collins / Marvin / Teague / Sy / Wilkens / pick 48 / Armstrong & player 13 is a player no one else wanted on their roster…typical Sund maneuver.

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SLIMJR-You’re so busy promoting your own BS agenda, and putting down every Hawk player you can to promote that agenda, especially AHorford, you can’t recognize your own BS. Here’s what I mean. You constantly glorify Derrick Williams, a college player you’re facinated with and obsess over that hasn’t proven a doggone thing at the next level.

Then you make these silly comments and assessments of what you perceive as AHorford’s shortcomings. The following is a comparison between AHorford and the negatives you attribute to him, and gathered from a scouting report by David Locke on your beloved Derrick Williams.

AHORFORD-You claim he’s soft and plays too much on the outside.
DWILLIAMS-”He is a power forward whose ability to play on the outside is going to be an asset to his OFF game.”

AHORFORD-You claim he’s undersized and isn’t aggressive enough.
DWILLIAMS-”Two enormous concerns in his gm, he is undersized and I am not convinced he plays very hard.”

AHORFORD-He’s not a shotblocker and isn’t good with help DEF.
DWILLIAMS-”Defensively he is a great robounder but a poor help defender. Often doesn’t leave his man in order to stay in rebounding position.”

These are samples of the BS you espouse when it comes to your assessment of AHorford compared to the glorification of your beloved Derrick Williams. You have no problem whatsoever in criticizing a 2 time NBA All Star and 3rd team NBA player. Yet, you glorify a college player who shares many of the same negatives you attribute to Horford.

DWilliams seems to shares MWilliams and JJohnson’s problem of being a vertical jumper. His scouting report says, “AS GOOD AN ATHLETE AS HE SEEMS TO BE HE IS A TWO FOOT JUMPER WHICH HURTS HIS ATHLETICISM. WHEN HE GOES OFF ONE FOOT THERE IS NO EXPLOSION. THE NEED TO BRING THE SECOND FOOT IN OFTEN MEANS IT TAKES TOO LONG AT THE NBA LEVEL. NOT AN ALL OUT EFFORT PLAYER, HE RUNS THE FLOOR AT HALF SPEED WITH REGULARITY AND POORLY IN TRANSITION. RUNS THE FLOOR UPHILL ON THE DEFENSIVE END. THIS WILL HAVE TO CHANGE IN THE NBA.”

QUICK SYNOPSIS: “A SOLID NBA PLAYER WHO STARTS, BUT NOT A STAR IN THE NBA. HE WILL STRUGGLE AT TIMES BEING A POWER FORWARD.”

Are you telling me you’d actually be stupid enough to take this unproven player, and his numerous shortcomings, especially when it comes to DEF and effort, over hustling All Star and 3rd team All NBA AHorford? WHERE’S THE DAMNED LOGIC SLIMJR?

1-You claim he relies on shooting jumpshots rather than working inside.

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Why bother we skip coach of the foremer who is Lakers coach which will be in NBA finals now…..Us we have cry owners who go to 680 the Fan cry fake tears and Mayor will cry soon when Hawks Move to Buffalo n become the Buffalo Braves in 2013…unless Reed save hawks if he do we remind him where was thou when Thrasher were leavin he said eh we live with it….Hawks have no clue of GM n coach hire rag muffins and oh Jason Terry about ring a NBA title take that Joe Johnson n friends…Dallas Mavericks 2011 NBA champions….Labron James Crybaby champ for Miami heat for 2011….wear the Bib well sucker!

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Hey Ken, chill out dude..Everyone has an opinion! You have yours, I have mine….Enough said!

Scroll button works wonders…………………………………………………………………………..

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“Does anyone know when the 2011-2012 salaries take effect?”

July 1st, the day the lockout starts. Sekou Smith told me it’s business as usual for the NBA until then. Expect to see a flurry of trades at the draft.

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“News Flash” Ding! Ding! Ding!

Nique was a two footed jumper and had a 47″ vertical!! Dugh?
A fantastic Athlete…..imho…..I dont care if he jumps off one or two legs the objective is to put the ball in the hole!

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@Kevin,

I feel like going fishing…LOL

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A power forward is also supposed to be able to play center!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpeCcFVQU7Q

trade Big Gay AL!

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Other than simplistic idea that Knight was stupid, etc., this theory (Re: ASG imposing Shelden Williams pick) makes more sense than anything else I can think of. Any comments? – ArtMan

ArtMan that’s damn interesting. I also theorize that ASG imposed the Marvin over Deron pick as well. I thought BK did a solid job of team building and really only lost his job because not shaking Belkin’s hand was a bad move.

ArtMan’s theory is further backed up by the great SI article SteveW linked, which I can’t believe I never read before. From that article:

“In fact, several high-ranking sources indicated the Hawks opened contract negotiations with Casey, only to change their minds when they realized they could sign Woodson’s second-in-command for only 60 percent of what a bona fide NBA coach would cost.”

Just goes to show… you get what you pay for! Hawks might have made ECF if they had more than 60% of a coach.

LOCKOUT!!!! JJ PLAYS OVERSEAS!!!! GETS HURT!!!! CONTRACT VOIDED!!!!!!! – Arvydis Sabonis

It’s nice to dream… I thought the same thing, thus my FC Barcelona comment. But JJ is just a follower. Just like when his agent announced that JJ was going to try to “recruit” other players after signing his contract (when his contract made bringing in other impact players impossible). His agent saying that was just trying to identify JJ with Dwayne Wade.

In the same way, NBA players talking about playing overseas is a means of leverage against a lockout. Some players will do it, but those players have less to lose than JJ. Even if the NBA cancels an entire season, JJ would only lose $20m and have $80m still owed him. No way he would ever risk that, and no way a lockout lasts more than one season.

Josh Smith is a thousand times more valuable as a player than Monta. – Time

Glad somebody said it to save me the effort of typing it.

There is no way the Bulls should be the 2nd best team in the East. The Hawks should be right there behind Miami. – Geemack

And we would be, Geemack, if we had more than 60% of a coach.

“Dont get your hopes up that Sund will be in the midst of those flurry of trades at the draft.” – SlimJr

Ha… not getting my hopes up. I’m saying a flurry of trades throughout the league. Teams are trying to lowball to get Josh and even the ASG isn’t that stupid.

“Marvin will never be healthy enough to play a lead role.” – KevinM

Fortunately we don’t need him in a lead role. We just need him to slim down some and stay healthy so he can go back to the form he had before JC1’s arrival.

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Please explain why you believe having a back court rotation of Hinrich, Teague, Pape Sy, and what they bring to the team, for an entire season will somehow force the team into a far greater regression than if it had Bibby and Jamal. – Ken S.

I so wanted the Hawks to get past CHI and play MIA in the ECF. I think we would have been crushed, but at least I would have got to see Teague go heads up against Bibby. MIA is lucky Chalmers is having a great series because Bibby has been exposed as exactly as bad a player as I was complaining he was before he was traded.

I still maintain that the Hinrich trade vastly improved the Hawks in the short term. JC2 has similar efficiency to Adam Morrison, who is no longer in the league. Puts up big numbers with volume offense on a horrible team that couldn’t sniff the playoffs, but is nowhere near ready to contribute on a playoff team. And highly unlikely that our first round pick this year would have contributed right away.

So next season we have the backcourt Ken mentioned and vastly improved defense with Bibby gone. Maybe JC2 one day overcomes his deficiencies and becomes an All-Star. I’m saying the trade helps us RIGHT NOW. Maybe Washington hits a Josh Smith-style home run with the pick they got from us in this draft. Maybe.

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@Ken,

I’ll repeat once again you have your opinion and I have mine…It is was it is Sir! Glass half full, Glass half empty its still opinions…….
You have the right to scroll on when you see me..I also…

Shop TITO Jr ASAP..He has great trade value on this squad…A shake up has got to occur to keep this franchise moving toward their first visit to an ECF in 44 freaking years..

It is my OPINION that All NBA Al has peaked. We need a #3 that can drop 20points per game to help our guards with the scoring load..The BIG 3(Marvin ,ALL NBA TitoJr, and Josh) arent the answer..This team has had massive blowouts on the road and at home for a reason????

Opinions Opinions Opinions…………………..
Fyi, without ISO the Hawks dont partake in three consecutive semi-conference finals..Stick that feather in your cap!

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and Derrick Williams is a power 3, just like Josh, just like Lebron, just like Beasley, just like Carmelo etc etc.

I’m tired of hearing this “handles” crap. If Lebron could go inside and do a spin move for the AND 1 how much handles would he need?

How much handles did Dr. J need? but he was 6′7 210 and agile. Lebron unfortunately is built like a tank and cannot post up.
People try to find weaknesses to fit their agenda. How about identifying STRENGTHs such as getting to the foul line for FREE POINTS.

JJ for all his strengths can’t get to the free throw line at a consistent rate. Great player but we should have been a .500 team without him kept the $$$ for a center and a bench to fit a 10-man rotation.
You think Chicago or Dallas would have been this deep had they signed JJ?
We would have had the depth of current Denver or Chicago with more discipline. AND $$$ for a quality center.

For all the inadequacy of Williams going against 3s he has proven to be a stellar 2-guard in JJ’s absence time and time again. Shooting over small 2-guards attacking the rim.
He is absolutely worthless as a 3 and I had no idea ASG would resign both
6′8 245 lb shooters and pigeonhole Josh to the 4/5 spot.
Now we see all along that Joe and Marvin are redundant as we stumbled to a 44-38 record and .500 for the season+postseason.

To make matters even worse Smith looks like the weight is wearing him down. Long gone are the days of a blocked shot then a dunk on the other end. Even worse is Horford struggling against the length of Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson and Joakim Noah in the post and the need for a premier center to mitigate what we thought would be Amare Stoudemire 2.0 and turned out to be a mere offensive role player (and yet a better defender).

Horford is a less fiery taller stockier Kurt Rambis.

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Here’s a fact: Hawks went 13-26 against teams above .500…Not an opinion..A FACT…………

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And yet we’re stuck with Joe at $20m a season for 5 more years. If the lockout erases next season, at least ASG won’t have to pay Joe $20m for next season. But they’re still on the hook for $80m over the final 4 years of the deal. Think about how Joe’s production fell off last season. Yes he was injured. But think about Joe if we skip 2011-12 and look ahead to 2012-13. Josh is in a contract year. Kirk is gone. Joe is 31 and fading. At that point it’s going to be like a Brandon Roy/Gilbert Arenas contract.

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