Atlanta Hawks: ‘Detroit model’ still a lemon
So if you are trying to be a championship contender, would you rather be GM of the Knicks or the Hawks right about now?
In Atlanta, you have a roster that’s been built on the Detroit model, which is historically flawed because a superstar player has almost always been necessary to win a title. But you do have two All-Stars, an All-Star (if enigmatic) talent, a promising young point guard and a solid veteran point guard.
In New York, you have the opposite problem. The Knicks have two superstar talents and not enough around them. Howard Beck of the New York Times breaks down the dilemma face by the Knicks:
As [Donnie] Walsh noted last week in announcing his decision to step down, “we have the stars” required to be respectable. “They will do what they do, and we’re lucky to have them,” he said. But, he noted, “You need more than that” to contend for championships.
The proof is in the playoffs, where each conference finalist had invaluable supporting players: Joakim Noah and Luol Deng in Chicago, Serge Ibaka and Thabo Sefolosha in Oklahoma City, Tyson Chandler and Shawn Marion in Dallas, Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller in Miami.
They are not stars, but they are indispensable in a title chase — the players who “fill in the blanks,” as Walsh said — setting hard screens, pouncing on loose balls, hitting timely jumpers, guarding top scorers, challenging shots in the paint. The great teams have such players in abundance. The Knicks have a dearth of them.
Chicago, Oklahoma City, Dallas and Miami also had at least one player named second-team All-NBA or better, like all but five champions and 10 runners-up in the league’s history. Rick Sund suggested the only way to get those kind of players is by picking No. 1 or No. 2 in the draft or spending free agent cash.
I don’t have to remind my blog people of the many ways the Hawks have messed up selecting a future superstar in the draft before Sund got here. Nor do you need to be told that Sund just gave away a pick to Washington because of his mistake in signing Bibby to that deal. And you already know the No. 1 reason the Hawks don’t have the ability to sign a superstar is because Sund gave J.J. the richest contract in the league but didn’t get anywhere close to superstar-level or even usual J.J.-like production. (The deals for Bibby and Marvin didn’t help, either.)
There’s another way in addition trades and free agency, of course. Top 10 players can be acquired in trades, which isn’t easy to do but is not without precedent. Looking back since 1980, there are a handful of such players who joined new teams through trades and helped them win titles: Kareem, Dr. J (who was actually “sold” to the 76ers by the Nets), Tiny Archibald, Moses Malone, Pippen (after the Sonics drafted him No. 5 overall), Barkley (after he became disgruntled in Philly), Penny (after the Warriors drafted him No. 3 overall), Mutombo (sorry to bring it up), J. Kidd, and Kobe (after the Hornets drafted him No. 13 overall).
So if you doubt the Detroit model is a winner, and you are convinced the Hawks need to get a superstar to be real contenders, then hope Sund can somehow get one through a trade. Sund apparently considers the trades for Jamal and Hinrich to be major deals but neither required the Hawks to give up a major piece.
Getting a superstar would require that kind of bold move, which is tricky since Atlanta lacks coveted assets like draft picks and cheap/productive/promising players. Making such a move while also keeping enough help around for the acquired superstar makes it trickier still, as the Knicks are finding out.
Sund has been involved in some major swaps. In 2000 with Detroit, he traded away Grant Hill in his prime to Orlando for Ben Wallace. Eventually Wallace became the kind of elite defender who made the Detroit model work, to the point that he was voted second-team NBA in 2006. And while with Seattle in 2003, Sund traded away Gary Payton, who was just starting his decline from All-NBA, and got Ray Allen, who would make second-team All-NBA in 2005.
Speaking of trades . . . .
Rusty Simmons of the San Francisco Chronicle reports: “League sources said the Warriors also have discussed [Monta] Ellis, among a variety of other players, in trade talks with Atlanta, Chicago, Memphis, Orlando and the Lakers.”
It’s always hard to know exactly what to make of “trade talks.” But I can’t think of a reason why the Hawks would be interested in Ellis, who has $33 million and three years left on a deal that includes a player option.
Simmons says the Warriors are looking for defensive help and want a big guard, a swingman and a post presence (and who doesn’t want one of those?). For what it’s worth, J.J. is a big guard who also can be a swingman, and Josh is a good defender who can play the 3, but look at the Golden State roster and tell me if there’s anyone the Hawks need/want?
Notes
- Marvin had outpatient surgery today to alleviate what the team says is an “isolated bulging disk” in his lower back. The Hawks said Marvin is set to begin rehab immediately and is expected to return to full basketball activities in six to weight weeks.
- The Arkansas Times talked to J.J., who says he might consider playing in Europe if there’s a lockout but added:” [I]f you go over there and get hurt, your contract is void.” That’s a lob for my blog people.
- The Hawks are in draft mode. They will start holding workouts for prospects next week but, unfortunately, there will be no media access. A list of prospects hopefully will be forthcoming.
- Teague has two basketball camps next week: June 13-15 at Salem High in Conyers and June 16-18 at Wheeler High in Marietta. Registration info is here.
- Al also has two camps: June 25-26 at Emory and June 28-29 in Lansing, Mich. Registration info is here.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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488 comments Add your comment
Where the LOGIC???????
June 9th, 2011
11:50 pm
Hawks win 50 games and show slight improvement????
And????
Najeh Davenpoop
June 9th, 2011
11:50 pm
^^one more win for the Mavs that is.
doc
June 9th, 2011
11:55 pm
like it.
seems like just yesterday we had the upper hand on the mavs until woody forgot he didnt have a number on his back.
brigadierjerry
June 9th, 2011
11:56 pm
Saw an interesting posting elsewhere on comparing James with Wilt:
Since the beginning of his career, we’ve compared Lebron James to the greats. He has the dominant scoring ability of Michael Jordan. He has the combination of size and passing of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. But I believe the best comparison may end up being Wilt Chamberlain.
Both Lebron and Wilt are among the athletic greatest talents any sport has seen. They are men among boys physically. On top of this they possess superior basketball IQ and skill. Both players are larger than life stars.
What makes judging Wilt’s career so frustrating is a comparative lack of domination compared to other greats. The Big Dipper ended up with 2 titles, one in ’67 with Philadelphia and one in ’72 with the LA Lakers. His contemporary Bill Russell won 11 titles in 13 years. Most noteably Russell came out on top in ‘68 and ‘69 when his team had aged and Wilt seemingly had the superior talent beside him. First with Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker, Luke Jackson and Wali Jones in Philadelphia, and then with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in LA. Yet Russell’s Celtics were a better team who won with defense, effort and supporting each other’s games. Wilt can be excused for not winning titles the first half of his career with less help than Russell, but in 68 and 69 he has no excuse. The truth is these two seasons take Wilt out of the greatest of all time discussions. If a greatest ever candidate, he wins in those seasons. Period.
One could blame lack of depth or coaching for the Lakers ‘69 failure, and one could point the finger at teammates disappearing in ‘68. But I’ve always felt Wilt lacked the championship character of stars like Russell, Jordan, Bird and Magic. That desire to win and competitiveness. That commitment to their team winning. Wilt was as much about Wilt as the team. He notoriously loved his statistical accomplishments and his lavish off court lifestyle. His teammates in Philadelphia were great players playing with Wilt. His teammates in LA were superstars playing with Wilt. The Sixers and Lakers were great stars playing together, rather than simply a great team.
Lebron’s career path screams Wilt Chamberlain. 0 titles in the first half of his career can be attributed to a lack of help. But now he has Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, giving him more supporting talent than any star. Yet the Heat are lacking something. Sure, their record is near the top of the league at 43-19, a 57 W pace. But a 2-10 record against other top 7 teams shows vulnerability and fragility. This week highlighted this, the Heat blowing a 24 pt lead against Orlando and then getting drubbed by 30 against the Spurs. There is a line in the sand between the Heat and the Celtics, Bulls and Spurs who are great teams with one goal in mind. Whereas the Heat are great stars on the same court. The Spurs rely on each other’s games supporting one another. The Heat rely on each other’s game fitting on the same court.
Can this be attributed to Lebron? As the team’s biggest presence the team takes after him. It is undeniable he does not have the Michael Jordan, Larry Bird “win or die” gene. If he did the lackluster effort in Game 5 against the Celtics last year wouldn’t have happened. If he did reports of Eric Spoelestra scolding him for not playing seriously wouldn’t have happened. If he did I suspect the Heat would be playing with a competitive fire enough to crush the league. Winning a title is not all that matters to Lebron. Winning wasn’t all that mattered for Wilt either. Teams take after their best player and the Heat are no exception.
So much of the game is mental. A team who’s slightly more focused, slightly more intense, a team with players slightly more committed to taking a statistical backseat for the good of the team – will find themselves more succesful. When I watch this year’s Chicago Bulls play I see a team commitment to a championship run. I wish the Heat played like them.
Lebron is set to go down as one of the game’s all time players no matter what he does. As with Wilt, his stats and MVPs will give him defenders even with a comparative lack of team success. But the difference between Lebron and a player like Jordan may come down to the former lacking that singular championship desire. As a result Lebron’s most apt nickname may end up being the Little Dipper. Which at least for me is a mixed compliment.
doc
June 9th, 2011
11:57 pm
just think if jj was calling for the ball like dirk does or was as active physically when the game is one the line rather than becoming comatose.
SteveW
June 9th, 2011
11:58 pm
Obtaining Chandler and Haywood and ditching Dampier has worked out pretty well for the Mavs. I wonder if we are a similar move away somehow from competing for a Championship?
Slimjr
June 10th, 2011
12:04 am
Mike Bibby starting at the 1 is the problem!!! Real simple… Miami playing 4 on 5 with Bibby out there..They need CP3….LOL
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
12:05 am
Maybe LeBron needs Nick Van Exel to work on awakening his inner dog
Grandmaster JeJe
June 10th, 2011
12:05 am
Watching the Mavs win tonight was more exciting than almost any Hawks win in recent memory, besides that Jamal GW over Jameer in the Orlando series
Grandmaster JeJe
June 10th, 2011
12:06 am
Miami is DEFINITELY benching Bibby in game 6. Problem is House is rusty and Bibby sucks. Chalmers is having a great series though
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
12:06 am
For a guy who just had a triple double, Lebron is sure taking a pounding in the press and among fans.
Maybe he’s deferring to DWade to much.
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
12:08 am
If Chalmers is available, I wouldn’t mind having him as a backup PG. A 4th G behind Teague, Hinrich, and JJ. Been thinking that for a couple of games now.
Slimjr
June 10th, 2011
12:10 am
Also Eric is being out coached! Ken will elaborate……He brought up the fact that Dallas switched to a zone in game 4 and just like our under achieving Hawks, Miami had a tough time scoring against it especially Labron!
Also the Matrix is putting down some clamping defense! Labron first step does not seem to be explosive against the 33 year old Marion!! I give him a lot of credit.. But Labron appears to be distracted again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
June 10th, 2011
12:14 am
Waive Marvin
Wavie Larry
Waive Bibby
Waive Sund Slippery Slope
superiorblogman
June 10th, 2011
12:27 am
Some people are saying that the offer is out there of Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Zaza for Monta Ellis and David Lee
If that is the case do that now, but make it a 3 way. Trade David Lee, Kirk Hinrich, and 2012-13 1st round pick to the Bucks for Andrew Bogut, Corey Maggette.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3be4tfz
Monta/Teague/Earl Watson (minimum)
Joe/Afflalo (MLE)/Pape
Maggette/Jimmy Butler (draft)/Damien
Horford/ Reggie Evans (MLE)/Chris Wilcos (minimum)
Bogut/Jeff Foster (minimum)/Jason Collins (minimum)
2011-12 NBA Champions
Phillip
June 10th, 2011
12:29 am
I wouldnt mind trading Josh and Marvin for Ellis and Wright. See if we can develop Udoh in to a nice player. Starting lineup of Teague, Ellis, Johnson, Wright, and Horford. Use Hinrich off the bench, and pick up a 7 foot center.
doc
June 10th, 2011
12:41 am
jj barea is showing the miami fans what we have seen for the past two years. bibby’s mind is willing but his body isnt. that is the key to the move to start barea and let him have his due on bibby who he matches up better on than chalmers who terry can take. good move.
wonder what effect it would have had on our team and the mavs if dwayne casey had ended up here instead of staying in dallas for this run. hmmm, think cuban isnt pleased that sund dropped the ball of this one too?
Melvin
June 10th, 2011
12:44 am
Not a classy move by the AJC to shut Big Ray blog down for the offseason.
Oh yeah, Let’s Go Mavs. I would really like to see JT, Dirk and Cuban win one..
Ken Strickland
June 10th, 2011
12:54 am
HORFORD+SY-What happened to Orlando and Boston is the result of thinking the grass is always greener on the other side, and that making trades will automatically resolve all problems. Both were veteran teams that weren’t going to get any better by maintaining the same roster. However, changing that roster through trades certainly didn’t make either team any better, and actually had the opposite results.
The Hawks have multiple ways of improving that doesn’t require trading away its core. And although the Hawks are considered a veteran team, the majority of its core players are still young and have considerable room for improvement.
hawksfancents95
June 10th, 2011
1:24 am
last week before the AJC shut down our only way to communicate our hawks thoughts/fantasies with other hawks fans/haters, i found out my guy monta could be on the trading block
http://www.insidebayarea.com/tim-kawakami/ci_18179859
i hope that link works
the warriors want more size and they want a bigger 2 guard(which they’ll probobley take at #11) they dont need josh smith because they are solid with dorrell wright at 3 and d.lee at 4. so plz dont include dorrell wright in any trades he should of beat k.love as Most Improved and they will not trade him. before the 09 season the warriors were the same team as now with jamal crawford, and jamal was a high volume scorer not known to play D. he came here and gave us a great 2 years and in that 09-10 season played amazing with clutch shots and his consistent off the bench production. how would monta not be a great add? he is younger than jamal, he is faster and more athletic than jamal. he is the best player in the NBA that no average fan knows. he will give us easily 20+ a game and with him doing that joe will be able to go back to 20 a game. all we have to give up is al horford. think about it. al is a 6′9.5 C that has pretty much peaked. he is not an agile 6′9 C like joel anthony that is always in the right place and is a great rebounder/pesky defender. he cant stop anyone taller than himself. all he has is that mid-range jumper that only holds up in the wear and tear of the regular season when he plays non-playoff teams big men who cant step out. al is a great player but he is a 6′10 12 and 10 C for the rest of his career and that does not triumph a 6′2 freak athlete who can score 30 every night. if we insert zaza as our starter we will be bigger down low and zaza can go 8 and 8, that doesnt seem like much but id take a 4 point drop off from my starting C if hes bigger and it gets me a SG that can give me 25ppg instead of a mediocre SG or SF(marvin or if we acquire a FA SG and move joe to 3). GS wants size and even tho AL doesnt have size he is an allstar C that is mobile and would be a good fit for GS’s style
11/12 salaries-monta 11mil biendrins 9 mill & horford 12 mill marvin 7.5
11/12 hawks
pg-teague/kirk
sg-monta/sy/gladyr?
sf-joe/damien #48
pf-josh/magnum #48
C-zaza/biendrins/collins
As for the ? MC posed, I would definitley take NY. You have a top 3 scorer in the NBA (Melo) at age 27 and a relentless big man that dominates and has a great drive to win (stoude). that city is a FA magnet and NY will be a eastern conf contender for years to come.
superiorblogman
June 10th, 2011
1:31 am
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2011-06-09-insider-atlanta-hawks_n.htm
We have a bidder on the Hawks and they are a minority group. Atlanta is a urban city, I think it would be great to get some urban owners in here that can mesh more urban entertainment with the team. Hopefully, they love basketball and have basketball minds and deep pockets, but I dont know if I want another group after the ASG. It might be better to have one owner. Interesting though
EmirS.
June 10th, 2011
1:47 am
If Ellis is coming in to replace Jamal then fine.
But other then that, I see no other reason for him to be here. As many others have said…he plays no defense…at all. Again if he’s replacing Jamal that’s fine. But given Drews offensive minded coaching, I don’t want Ellis and Jamal out there at the same time. Screw that.
We play no defense as it is. We have no depth. We have no rebounders. We have no one whose willing to box out on a consistent basis. Our fcous should not be on Ellis. We dont need another guard. We are fine at the guard position. We need permiter defense and post defense more then anything else. Those defenders in the post need to know how to rebound. There is no reason for us to be going after Ellis or Lee or Biedrins. I see no reasoning in this at all!
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2011
2:40 am
LOL nbadraft.net has the Hawks taking Kendall Marshall in their 2012 mock draft:
http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft
Not if LD is still around! He won’t have the Hawks taking any player with obese parents!
Grandad
June 10th, 2011
3:50 am
SuperDuperBlogman;
“Trade David Lee, Kirk Hinrich, and 2012-13 1st round pick to the Bucks”
A Team cannot trade it’s 1st round pick away in two consecutive
yrs / drafts. I doubt the new CBA would affect that rule.
Since we traded this yrs 1st rounder, we cannot deal next yrs 1st pick.
Grandad
June 10th, 2011
3:59 am
SuperDuperBlogman
It’s called the “Stepien rule” named after Ted Stepien;
former owner [deceased] of the Cleveland Cavs.
The pseudonym was cleverly coined after the rule was instituted
due to Mr Stepien’s penchant for trading away his 1st round picks.
superiorblogman
June 10th, 2011
5:31 am
Grandad
June 10th, 2011
3:50 am
SuperDuperBlogman;
“Trade David Lee, Kirk Hinrich, and 2012-13 1st round pick to the Bucks”
A Team cannot trade it’s 1st round pick away in two consecutive
yrs / drafts. I doubt the new CBA would affect that rule.
Since we traded this yrs 1st rounder, we cannot deal next yrs 1st pick.
How you doing Grandad?
I know you getting old there but you do realize 2012-13 is the year after next. This is season 2010-11, next year is season 2011-12, and the year after is season 2012-13.
I know the rule my friend that’s why I suggested 2012-13. Take care hope to see you around later.
doc
June 10th, 2011
5:49 am
just as flawed as tye detroit model is the model that says you can break up a team, go to zeronwins and draft yoir way back to significance. that hasnt been done yet with the first attempt in modern times by the post jordan bulls. the gm thought he was the mastermind of success not jordan. silly arrogant little twerp wasnt he?
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2011
6:13 am
Waive Marvin
Wavie Larry
Waive Bibby
Waive Sund Slippery Slope
LOL
Lame Duck and Slippery Slope… hell of a combo we got here.
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2011
6:37 am
brigadierjerry
June 9th, 2011
11:56 pm
Great post.
O'Brien
June 10th, 2011
8:34 am
Steve W,
The irony is in 2009, OKC traded for Chandler. But they were concerned about his foot injury, and he allegedly failed their physical, so they rescinded the trade. Imagine how better OKC would have looked against Dallas if they had Chandler and Dallas didn’t (since Perkins gave OKC nothing).
Doc,
just think if jj was calling for the ball like dirk does or was as active physically when the game is one the line rather than becoming comatose..
Unfortunately, the ASG has paid him to be that guy, but (imo), he has never been that guy, and has no intentions of being that guy, despite his 6 year max deal.
Time
June 10th, 2011
9:09 am
Ellis is a good player, great scorer. Doesn’t do much else. Quit showing your basketball ignorance people. Josh Smith is a thousand times more valuable as a player than Monta.
JJ for Monta. That’s a deal I’d be interested in. Josh for Monta and we become Golden State….a 40 win at best team.
Geemack
June 10th, 2011
9:14 am
Ken Strickland
I agree that the Hawks don’t need to change their personnel, if they implement the type of focus on defense you mentioned yesterday.
However with the coaching style of LD that’s more of a dream than a reality. Therefore in order to maximize our current oppurtunity they have to address personnel.
It’s either change the coaching staff, or change the player personnel.
There is no way the Bulls should be the 2nd best team in the East. The Hawks should be right there behind Miami.
The other team on the rise next year is the Knicks.
Geemack
June 10th, 2011
9:16 am
Time
Kirk Hinrich for Monta, and a trade exception.
Geemack
June 10th, 2011
9:20 am
brigadierjerry
Well, Wilt was a better player than Jordan.
Nate ArchiBALL
June 10th, 2011
9:38 am
@ Geemack Ditto on your 9:20 am comment.
Slimjr
June 10th, 2011
9:51 am
“I agree that the Hawks don’t need to change their personnel, if they implement the type of focus on defense you mentioned yesterday.
However with the coaching style of LD that’s more of a dream than a reality. Therefore in order to maximize our current oppurtunity they have to address personnel.
It’s either change the coaching staff, or change the player personnel.
There is no way the Bulls should be the 2nd best team in the East. The Hawks should be right there behind Miami.
The other team on the rise next year is the Knicks.”
BINGO! There has to be change in either personal or coaching or both.. If not, 39-43 wins.. Knicks and possible Philly will supplant the Hawks and they will slide on down to the 6th or 7th seed..Slide,Slide, Slippery Slide…….Yawn…..
Slimjr
June 10th, 2011
9:56 am
it was a great pick= Marvin’s now an 8ppg scorer since his latest back injury/surgery….
A #2 pick buster………………….
Neki Ecko
June 10th, 2011
10:02 am
@superiorblogman
Well, I read that article about those W/C Holdings folks that wants the Hawks/Phillips/Trashers(if they were still here) for 500 mil. I hope that this have legs and DASG will do the right thing and bail the heck out of here.
For the Ellis thing, the question is that you will have to give up one of the major core pieces for Ellis. If we see more 3 guard set or moving J.J to SF, then it will be a good idea but ASG wouldnt do that.
Grandmaster JeJe
June 10th, 2011
10:05 am
LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Did someone just say they want to trade JOE (5x All Star and a top 5 SG) for MONTA ELLIS?
‘
LOL
Astro Joe
June 10th, 2011
10:09 am
Dwayne Casey is in a very good position to get a ring. I heard him described as Dallas’ defensive coordinator last night. I’m guessing that some of these GMs with vacancies are waiting for either Casey or Spoelstra to become available in the next few days. After watching what Thibs did in Chaicago, being a defensive guru is like having an Ivy League graduate degree on your resume.
Grandmaster JeJe
June 10th, 2011
10:20 am
Wade said he doesn’t want to reveal injuries and make it a fun-loving story
Guess he was calling out Dirk
LBJ and Wade also made fun of Dirk’s sickness
I hope they choke in game 6
Horford + Sy for Rockets Picks: sg-Travis Leslie, pf-Donatas "Zach Randolph" Motiejunas, Thabeet & Hill
June 10th, 2011
10:43 am
For all the talk of the ‘04 Detroit Pistons model for the life of me I cannot find where Larry Brown went to a 3 guard lineup with Tayshaun at the 4 and Ben/Rasheed on the bench??? :dontknow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIq6sjGn76o
“yeah and thats a tough matchup for Rick Fox. Corliss Williamson is usually guarded by 4s and they put him at the 3 spot. Thats a tough matchup especially down low.”
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
10:56 am
SB – Basically, ASG has said they are not going to use the MLE. And if they did, do you think we could get Afflalo and Evans by splitting it? It sounds good, but may not work in real life.
Also, if I’m the Bucks, no way do I trade Bogut and Magette for Lee, Hinrich, and a 1st pick. Centers are to hard to come by in this League.
OB – I dare say OKC may be winning a championship if they had Tyson Chandler.
If LeBron doesn’t win this season, next season may be his next big hope, and only hope. I think after that Haslem, Miller, and even DWade will be to old.
And everybody better be watching out for OKC and the Griz. And if the Bulls sign Jason Richardson or even Jamal, include them in teams everybody needs to look out for.
And with Bryant, Gasol, Odom, and Bynum, I can’t imagine the Lakers not making at least 1 more run…And maybe even the Celts.
Karma
June 10th, 2011
10:58 am
I hope and pray that everything the ASG has their claws in continues to be a failure. Poster boys for how not to run teams….
Ken Strickland
June 10th, 2011
10:58 am
GEEMACK-Can’t argue with that logic. But remember, this is the last yr of LDrew’s contract, and if he pulls a MWoodson and finishes his final yr doing everything his way despite what’s needed and expected, he’s out of here.
While ABogut is a good player, he hasn’t done anything career wise to distinguish himself from AHorford. Here’s a comparison: Bogut(Horford)
PPG-12.7(12.8), RPG-9.3(9.6), BPG-1.6(1.1), APG-2.3(2.4), FG%-.525(.536), FT%-.575(.762). Horford is more durable and more versatile.
Over Bogut’s career, the Bucks have not had a single winning season, hasn’t won more than 46gms and made the playoffs only once, which was a 7gm elimination by the Hawks. He hasn’t done anything well enough to have had a significant impact on his team’s fortunes.
CMaggette was a complete disappointment for Milwaukee, and waste of money. He didn’t do any better than Marvin. MAGGETTE(MARVIN)
PPG-12(10.4), RPG-3.6(4.8), APG-1.3(1.4), FG%-.453(.458), 3PTFG%-.359(.336).
All of this GRASS IS GREENER TRADE CRAP is nothing more than wishful thinking, and isn’t a solution to any of our problems, no matter how much you TRADE FANATICS continue to indulge in these fantasy trade suggestions. And if you have your mind set on trading for MEllis, forget it.
It would make more sense, financially and otherwise, to resign JCrawford. Crawford would likely sign for less money than Ellis now makes, and we wouldn’t have to trade any players. After all, they are very simular players, both offensively and defensively. WISHFUL THINKING IS AN EXTREMELY POOR SUBSTITUE FOR ACTUALLY THINKING.
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
10:59 am
Doc – According to SI and others, ASG stepped in and hired Drew over Sunds head objections. Sund was hours away from hiring Casey according to that report.
So LD is ASG’s baby, not Sund’s
Rusty
June 10th, 2011
11:03 am
Anyone watching the Miami Dallas series can see these teams are well coached they play a passing offense getting many easy baskets & play hard aggressive defense. When you watch the hawks you see we have a horrible offense ( iso & nothing but jump shots) . The reasons being is just very poor coaching & no accountability.
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
11:05 am
Doc – Here is a little of that SI article I mentioned on the hiring of Larry Drew: From June 19th 2010
“Because, in reality, this decision sets up more people for failure than just Drew. If Hawks general manager Rick Sund really wanted Drew, he would have just promoted him soon after firing Woodson. That should have been readily apparent.
There is no way, after all, that Drew, whom the organization has known for six years, put on such a splendid display during his one last-minute interview, after Johnson had already agreed to terms with New Jersey, that he immediately unseated Casey or Jackson.
The thing that did impress is that Drew was willing to accept far less per year, with his third year the team’s option, than either Casey or Jackson.
As such, this undoubtedly puts Sund in a difficult spot because if Drew’s hiring does work out, then ownership can say that Sund recommended an option — Casey, with whom Sund worked in Seattle — that they did not choose.
And if Drew does not work out, they know that Sund always has the I’m-smarter-than-you hammer hanging over their heads, which no owner ever wants to hear.”
“
SteveW
June 10th, 2011
11:10 am
Bogut had that horrific elbow injury, and I think that slowed him down quite a bit this past season. I still think he has some upside still to come. Even if he’s not a great scorer, his rebounding and shot blocking is still an asset.
I think Bogut may shock a few folks this season, and have an 17 and 12 type season, with 2.5 blocks a games. That’s solid numbers.
Horford + Sy for Rockets Picks: sg-Travis Leslie, pf-Donatas "Zach Randolph" Motiejunas, Thabeet & Hill
June 10th, 2011
11:13 am
if Orlando trades Turkoglu that person will have to be able to match up with Josh
and every 2 guard in the East has to be able to score AND muscle with Joe
in the past they would hide their 2 on Marvin