Atlanta Hawks: ‘Detroit model’ still a lemon
So if you are trying to be a championship contender, would you rather be GM of the Knicks or the Hawks right about now?
In Atlanta, you have a roster that’s been built on the Detroit model, which is historically flawed because a superstar player has almost always been necessary to win a title. But you do have two All-Stars, an All-Star (if enigmatic) talent, a promising young point guard and a solid veteran point guard.
In New York, you have the opposite problem. The Knicks have two superstar talents and not enough around them. Howard Beck of the New York Times breaks down the dilemma face by the Knicks:
As [Donnie] Walsh noted last week in announcing his decision to step down, “we have the stars” required to be respectable. “They will do what they do, and we’re lucky to have them,” he said. But, he noted, “You need more than that” to contend for championships.
The proof is in the playoffs, where each conference finalist had invaluable supporting players: Joakim Noah and Luol Deng in Chicago, Serge Ibaka and Thabo Sefolosha in Oklahoma City, Tyson Chandler and Shawn Marion in Dallas, Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller in Miami.
They are not stars, but they are indispensable in a title chase — the players who “fill in the blanks,” as Walsh said — setting hard screens, pouncing on loose balls, hitting timely jumpers, guarding top scorers, challenging shots in the paint. The great teams have such players in abundance. The Knicks have a dearth of them.
Chicago, Oklahoma City, Dallas and Miami also had at least one player named second-team All-NBA or better, like all but five champions and 10 runners-up in the league’s history. Rick Sund suggested the only way to get those kind of players is by picking No. 1 or No. 2 in the draft or spending free agent cash.
I don’t have to remind my blog people of the many ways the Hawks have messed up selecting a future superstar in the draft before Sund got here. Nor do you need to be told that Sund just gave away a pick to Washington because of his mistake in signing Bibby to that deal. And you already know the No. 1 reason the Hawks don’t have the ability to sign a superstar is because Sund gave J.J. the richest contract in the league but didn’t get anywhere close to superstar-level or even usual J.J.-like production. (The deals for Bibby and Marvin didn’t help, either.)
There’s another way in addition trades and free agency, of course. Top 10 players can be acquired in trades, which isn’t easy to do but is not without precedent. Looking back since 1980, there are a handful of such players who joined new teams through trades and helped them win titles: Kareem, Dr. J (who was actually “sold” to the 76ers by the Nets), Tiny Archibald, Moses Malone, Pippen (after the Sonics drafted him No. 5 overall), Barkley (after he became disgruntled in Philly), Penny (after the Warriors drafted him No. 3 overall), Mutombo (sorry to bring it up), J. Kidd, and Kobe (after the Hornets drafted him No. 13 overall).
So if you doubt the Detroit model is a winner, and you are convinced the Hawks need to get a superstar to be real contenders, then hope Sund can somehow get one through a trade. Sund apparently considers the trades for Jamal and Hinrich to be major deals but neither required the Hawks to give up a major piece.
Getting a superstar would require that kind of bold move, which is tricky since Atlanta lacks coveted assets like draft picks and cheap/productive/promising players. Making such a move while also keeping enough help around for the acquired superstar makes it trickier still, as the Knicks are finding out.
Sund has been involved in some major swaps. In 2000 with Detroit, he traded away Grant Hill in his prime to Orlando for Ben Wallace. Eventually Wallace became the kind of elite defender who made the Detroit model work, to the point that he was voted second-team NBA in 2006. And while with Seattle in 2003, Sund traded away Gary Payton, who was just starting his decline from All-NBA, and got Ray Allen, who would make second-team All-NBA in 2005.
Speaking of trades . . . .
Rusty Simmons of the San Francisco Chronicle reports: “League sources said the Warriors also have discussed [Monta] Ellis, among a variety of other players, in trade talks with Atlanta, Chicago, Memphis, Orlando and the Lakers.”
It’s always hard to know exactly what to make of “trade talks.” But I can’t think of a reason why the Hawks would be interested in Ellis, who has $33 million and three years left on a deal that includes a player option.
Simmons says the Warriors are looking for defensive help and want a big guard, a swingman and a post presence (and who doesn’t want one of those?). For what it’s worth, J.J. is a big guard who also can be a swingman, and Josh is a good defender who can play the 3, but look at the Golden State roster and tell me if there’s anyone the Hawks need/want?
Notes
- Marvin had outpatient surgery today to alleviate what the team says is an “isolated bulging disk” in his lower back. The Hawks said Marvin is set to begin rehab immediately and is expected to return to full basketball activities in six to weight weeks.
- The Arkansas Times talked to J.J., who says he might consider playing in Europe if there’s a lockout but added:” [I]f you go over there and get hurt, your contract is void.” That’s a lob for my blog people.
- The Hawks are in draft mode. They will start holding workouts for prospects next week but, unfortunately, there will be no media access. A list of prospects hopefully will be forthcoming.
- Teague has two basketball camps next week: June 13-15 at Salem High in Conyers and June 16-18 at Wheeler High in Marietta. Registration info is here.
- Al also has two camps: June 25-26 at Emory and June 28-29 in Lansing, Mich. Registration info is here.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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488 comments Add your comment
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
10:51 am
Jay Bilas so called basketball expert, said in 2004 that Josh Smith would be a bust in that draft and that he was the worst player drafted!!
David Locke= Jay Bilas another man’s opinion
Sheed
June 12th, 2011
11:07 am
A power forward is also supposed to be able to play center!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpeCcFVQU7Q
trade Big Gay AL!
Ken Strickland
June 12th, 2011
11:19 am
SLIMJR-You have a point, but not when it comes to your issues with AHorford, which you constantly promote, and not with Derrick Williams, who you’ve been glorifying with absolutely no justication. And like you said, I’m only offering OPINIONS, right.
It’s just that some OPINIONS are considered INFORMED OPINIONS, which are based on logic, common sense and/or facts, and some simply aren’t. I just wanted to let you know that your OPINIONS of AHorford and DWilliams don’t hold up under scrutiny, and they fall into the later category.
I don’t have a problem with you personally, but I do have a problem with your negativity. You’re obviously intelligent, but you’ve chosen not to use it constructively. You seem to prefer the attention getting GLASS HALF EMPTY approach when commenting on just about anything that’s Atlanta Hawk related.
This team and it’s players aren’t nearly as bad as you present. The team will do a lot bettr this season than you keep predicting. Maybe you are the one that should give it a rest and try a different more logical and realistic approach. I’m certain you can contribute more positive assessments of the team, rather than all of the negative doom and gloom that’s been your focus thus far.
Despite your negative assessment and predictions, surely you can appreciate how much of a change, impact and upgrade having a guard rotation and perimeter DEF comprised of DEF capable guards like KHinrich, JTeague and Pape Sy, rather than DEF liabilities like MBibby and JCrawford, can have on a team.
The Bulls are an OFF challenged team, but they maximized their effort and success with DEF. We now have the DEF horses on the perimeter to become a much better DEF team. After July 1, we won’t have a single player under contract that can be classsified as a DEF liability. In both rounds of the playoffs, we all saw the positive individual impact KHinrich and JTeague had on the team.
That impact can and will be magnified with us having both players healthy and functioning for an entire season and at the same time. They both bring OFF/DEF attributes, as well as a versatility and consistency that just didn’t exist with Bibby or Jamal. Please explain why you believe having a back court rotation of Hinrich, Teague, Pape Sy, and what they bring to the team, for an entire season will somehow force the team into a far greater regression than if it had Bibby and Jamal.
And please don’t bring up that worn out excuse about the potential improvement of other Eastern Conference teams. We’ve been subjected to that lame excuse by others who’ve also predicted doom and gloom for the Hawks each of the past 6 seasons. And just for the record, the Hawks have proven them wrong by improving each of those 6 seasons, either during the regular season or playoffs. LET’S SEE WHAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
Buddy Grizzard
June 12th, 2011
11:32 am
Other than simplistic idea that Knight was stupid, etc., this theory (Re: ASG imposing Shelden Williams pick) makes more sense than anything else I can think of. Any comments? – ArtMan
ArtMan that’s damn interesting. I also theorize that ASG imposed the Marvin over Deron pick as well. I thought BK did a solid job of team building and really only lost his job because not shaking Belkin’s hand was a bad move.
ArtMan’s theory is further backed up by the great SI article SteveW linked, which I can’t believe I never read before. From that article:
“In fact, several high-ranking sources indicated the Hawks opened contract negotiations with Casey, only to change their minds when they realized they could sign Woodson’s second-in-command for only 60 percent of what a bona fide NBA coach would cost.”
Just goes to show… you get what you pay for! Hawks might have made ECF if they had more than 60% of a coach.
LOCKOUT!!!! JJ PLAYS OVERSEAS!!!! GETS HURT!!!! CONTRACT VOIDED!!!!!!! – Arvydis Sabonis
It’s nice to dream… I thought the same thing, thus my FC Barcelona comment. But JJ is just a follower. Just like when his agent announced that JJ was going to try to “recruit” other players after signing his contract (when his contract made bringing in other impact players impossible). His agent saying that was just trying to identify JJ with Dwayne Wade.
In the same way, NBA players talking about playing overseas is a means of leverage against a lockout. Some players will do it, but those players have less to lose than JJ. Even if the NBA cancels an entire season, JJ would only lose $20m and have $80m still owed him. No way he would ever risk that, and no way a lockout lasts more than one season.
Josh Smith is a thousand times more valuable as a player than Monta. – Time
Glad somebody said it to save me the effort of typing it.
There is no way the Bulls should be the 2nd best team in the East. The Hawks should be right there behind Miami. – Geemack
And we would be, Geemack, if we had more than 60% of a coach.
“Dont get your hopes up that Sund will be in the midst of those flurry of trades at the draft.” – SlimJr
Ha… not getting my hopes up. I’m saying a flurry of trades throughout the league. Teams are trying to lowball to get Josh and even the ASG isn’t that stupid.
“Marvin will never be healthy enough to play a lead role.” – KevinM
Fortunately we don’t need him in a lead role. We just need him to slim down some and stay healthy so he can go back to the form he had before JC1’s arrival.
Sheed
June 12th, 2011
11:39 am
All Star [Reserve] and 3rd team All NBA AHorford?
“The All-NBA Teams were chosen by a panel of 119 sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada. The media voted for All-NBA First, Second and Third Teams by position with points awarded on a 5-3-1 basis.”
what team was Dirk on? Chris Paul? what team was Blake Griffin on? Deron Williams? Steve Nash?
Don’t make us laugh those media awards are a joke. All it says is “Oh! they like me!” It has little to do with actually matching up and winning an NBA-title
Buddy Grizzard
June 12th, 2011
11:43 am
Please explain why you believe having a back court rotation of Hinrich, Teague, Pape Sy, and what they bring to the team, for an entire season will somehow force the team into a far greater regression than if it had Bibby and Jamal. – Ken S.
I so wanted the Hawks to get past CHI and play MIA in the ECF. I think we would have been crushed, but at least I would have got to see Teague go heads up against Bibby. MIA is lucky Chalmers is having a great series because Bibby has been exposed as exactly as bad a player as I was complaining he was before he was traded.
I still maintain that the Hinrich trade vastly improved the Hawks in the short term. JC2 has similar efficiency to Adam Morrison, who is no longer in the league. Puts up big numbers with volume offense on a horrible team that couldn’t sniff the playoffs, but is nowhere near ready to contribute on a playoff team. And highly unlikely that our first round pick this year would have contributed right away.
So next season we have the backcourt Ken mentioned and vastly improved defense with Bibby gone. Maybe JC2 one day overcomes his deficiencies and becomes an All-Star. I’m saying the trade helps us RIGHT NOW. Maybe Washington hits a Josh Smith-style home run with the pick they got from us in this draft. Maybe.
Buddy Grizzard
June 12th, 2011
11:48 am
By the way, on draft night, as soon as NY picks at #17 and before Washington makes the #18 pick I want all my bloggers to get on here and say who the Hawks should have picked at #18.
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
11:52 am
@Ken,
I’ll repeat once again you have your opinion and I have mine…It is was it is Sir! Glass half full, Glass half empty its still opinions…….
You have the right to scroll on when you see me..I also…
Shop TITO Jr ASAP..He has great trade value on this squad…A shake up has got to occur to keep this franchise moving toward their first visit to an ECF in 44 freaking years..
It is my OPINION that All NBA Al has peaked. We need a #3 that can drop 20points per game to help our guards with the scoring load..The BIG 3(Marvin ,ALL NBA TitoJr, and Josh) arent the answer..This team has had massive blowouts on the road and at home for a reason????
Opinions Opinions Opinions…………………..
Fyi, without ISO the Hawks dont partake in three consecutive semi-conference finals..Stick that feather in your cap!
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
11:53 am
what^^^^
Sheed
June 12th, 2011
11:57 am
and Derrick Williams is a power 3, just like Josh, just like Lebron, just like Beasley, just like Carmelo etc etc.
I’m tired of hearing this “handles” crap. If Lebron could go inside and do a spin move for the AND 1 how much handles would he need?
How much handles did Dr. J need? but he was 6′7 210 and agile. Lebron unfortunately is built like a tank and cannot post up.
People try to find weaknesses to fit their agenda. How about identifying STRENGTHs such as getting to the foul line for FREE POINTS.
JJ for all his strengths can’t get to the free throw line at a consistent rate. Great player but we should have been a .500 team without him kept the $$$ for a center and a bench to fit a 10-man rotation.
You think Chicago or Dallas would have been this deep had they signed JJ?
We would have had the depth of current Denver or Chicago with more discipline. AND $$$ for a quality center.
For all the inadequacy of Williams going against 3s he has proven to be a stellar 2-guard in JJ’s absence time and time again. Shooting over small 2-guards attacking the rim.
He is absolutely worthless as a 3 and I had no idea ASG would resign both
6′8 245 lb shooters and pigeonhole Josh to the 4/5 spot.
Now we see all along that Joe and Marvin are redundant as we stumbled to a 44-38 record and .500 for the season+postseason.
To make matters even worse Smith looks like the weight is wearing him down. Long gone are the days of a blocked shot then a dunk on the other end. Even worse is Horford struggling against the length of Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson and Joakim Noah in the post and the need for a premier center to mitigate what we thought would be Amare Stoudemire 2.0 and turned out to be a mere offensive role player (and yet a better defender).
Horford is a less fiery taller stockier Kurt Rambis.
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
12:11 pm
Northcyde: or other Bloggers
what was the Hawks record against West Coast teams this year..I bet it was not pretty?? That indicator among others will show that Atlanta has actually regressed..
They have been swepted by the Thunder 3 consecutive seasons. That is another indicator of regression..See i aint buying what Sund is selling…I gits my scoll on dude………..
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
12:21 pm
Here’s a fact: Hawks went 13-26 against teams above .500…Not an opinion..A FACT…………
Sheed
June 12th, 2011
12:40 pm
“if we do move Joe….. lottery draft here we come!!!!!!
I don’t understand why you all don’t see that”"
“this is so delusional it is hilarious , last year, with Joe, the Hawks were .527, without Joe, the Hawks had 6 wins in 10 games, .600, and those wins were against playoff teams like the Griz, Sixers, Magic and Pacers.
Hawks are better when Joe is not playing, because he is like Westbrook,…. Marvin, Jamal, Horford, and Josh all play better and shoot a higher percentage with Joe is not on the floor.
with Joe, the Hawks shoot .462FG and .352 from three, without Joe, the Hawks shoot .467 and .385 from three. the Hawks play better team ball, passing and getting everybody involved like the Mavs, averaging 23 apg and 12 turn overs per game, without Joe. with Joe their is less ball movement and more ball hogging, the Hawks average 21apg and 14 turn overs per game.
the Hawks couldn’t make the lottery if Joe left, because the Hawks are a better team without Joe. all the numbers and game film shows that the Hawks are better when Joe is not acting like Westbrook.
even if you are right and the Hawks do make the lottery, it would be a whole lot better to let Joe walk and go lottery than keep him, because with Joe’s horrible season, right now, Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes, McAdoo, Perry Jones, Quincy, Lamb, Beal, Gilchrist, Adonis Thomas…. are all better than Joe hands”
Buddy Grizzard
June 12th, 2011
1:30 pm
And yet we’re stuck with Joe at $20m a season for 5 more years. If the lockout erases next season, at least ASG won’t have to pay Joe $20m for next season. But they’re still on the hook for $80m over the final 4 years of the deal. Think about how Joe’s production fell off last season. Yes he was injured. But think about Joe if we skip 2011-12 and look ahead to 2012-13. Josh is in a contract year. Kirk is gone. Joe is 31 and fading. At that point it’s going to be like a Brandon Roy/Gilbert Arenas contract.
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
2:37 pm
You assumed Billy Knight had an “INFORMED OPINION” when he drafted the worst #2 pick in Atlanta Hawks History over a first ballot Hall of Famer in CP3?
What is it called when you assume and try to back up your argument based on another person so called informed opinion? Fill in the Blanks…………………..Scroll….
Grandmaster JeJe
June 12th, 2011
3:12 pm
Co-sign Northcyde’s post from yesterday….LOL @ people wanting to do Joe for Monta/Biedrins
Grandad
June 12th, 2011
3:18 pm
Comments & Questions:
* For DC;
I’ve watched film of Charles Jenkins
& he has the most pure stroke of any youngster observed lately.
* Joe is a solid player for sure, but he is also an anchor.
* “Joe does not make his teammates better” -Grandad-
* Sheldon was a worse pick than Marv.
At the time…no one could have dreamed how bad Marv would turn out.
He was highly rated by everyone, and easily could have been the 1st pick.
* GATA Dallas !
Ken Strickland
June 12th, 2011
3:36 pm
SLIMJR-Anyone can disect every NBA GM and find where he had draft picks that turned out to be both busts and successes. It all depends on whether you choose to focus on that GM’s busts or successes. There are numerous instances of players that didn’t live up to their potential being drafted ahead players that ended up becoming potential first ballot HOFer’s.
Consider the GM’s, HC’s and fans of the respective teams that traded Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups to the Pistons. Don’t you think they readily traded them because they felt both had peeked, and they didn’t see enough in either to warrant significant mins? You could appreciate and comprehend this if you’d stop drinking all of that HATERADE.
It only took an open minded GM like Joe Dumars, a HC like LBrown, and some knowledgable fans, to see them differently. They previous obviously focused on, and took advantage of, what they did well, rather than the opposite, and turned them both into All Stars and NBA champions. Neither were All Stars or starters before they were traded.
And you’re suggesting we trade AHorford after he’s already become a 2 time All Star and 3rd team All NBA, just because you feel he’s peeked. Hell, I’ll bet every NBA HC, GM, Exec and fan would just love to see most of their players peek the way you claim Horford has.
Let’s talk about Derrick Williams, who you’ve said will be a sure fire All Star, a distinction AHorford has already achieved, TWICE. Why sugggest we trade a known commodity in Horford and draft an unknown commodity in Williams, who definitely shares most of the same issues you attribute to Horford?
If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You can’t come on these blogs espousing negative minded uninformed opinions and not expect to be challenged.
KevinM
June 12th, 2011
3:48 pm
Don’t forget Josh Childress as a #6 pick….we got very little as a result. Somehow, Sund thought more of both Al and Marvin than the 2 Joshes.
I think it’s safe to say here our failures in the draft is what has made us average. Of all of our draft picks, we are left with 5 of those out of 16 since 2004. We have 2 starters and 3 backups. We sure can’t talk about Minnesota and their failures. It looks like they have 5 left out of their 23 choices. Minnesota has also had a WCF in their history. So to think we are continuing to improve are basing it on finally winning a playoff game in the 2nd round. So in reality, Minnesoata has has more success than Atlanta. I find that embarrassing as an organization and for this city.
If there is ‘improvement’, it will only be if Teague is the lead guard and they commit to defense for a change. So far, we can’t stop many opponents. It takes 6 centers on this roster to compete with one Dwight Howard and the all-star center we have isn’t even capable of guarding him. Its been
proven.
Oh well, we continue to watch other teams make changes while we stand consistent with our core.
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
3:51 pm
“If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey Ken Take your own advice!!!!!!!!
You come in here with a holier than than thou attitude attacking bloggers consistently..I am going to call your azz out!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
3:56 pm
“Flawed” Thats your word you throw around!!!!!!!
Look in the mirror at your own jock sniffin as this franchise continue to throw dung at us and you eat…
This franchise has been seriously flawed for years and I am calling it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Use your scroll button………..Dude……………
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
4:08 pm
“Oh well, we continue to watch other teams make changes while we stand consistent with our core.”
@KevinM,
apparently there are folks that are buying the Sh__t, Sund is selling?? LOL
Showtime Frontcourt: Smith, Motiejunas, Hill, Hasheem, Pachulia
June 12th, 2011
4:13 pm
“It only took an open minded GM like Joe Dumars, a HC like LBrown, and some knowledgable fans, to see them differently. They previous obviously focused on, and took advantage of, what they did well, rather than the opposite, and turned them both into All Stars and NBA champions. Neither were All Stars or starters before they were traded. ”
fans did not orchestrate those trades.
Chauncey Billups – big guard who people wanted to defend and score as the 2. Dumars stuck him next to 6′6 Rip Hamilton.
Ben Wallace- muscular 6′9 defender.
Rasheed Wallace – talented 6′11 forward-center shoot over you dunk over you post up get fouled in the post. 7 rebounds a game.
Corliss Williamson- usually played undersized power forward {hint} and Larry Brown saw an advantage in making 3s guard him, an aggressive you-guard-me-in-the-post approach {hint, hint}
Tayshaun- 6′9 length to defend, averaged 10 points in the playoffs, team scoring was balanced, volume of shots went to guards and touches to Rasheed to slow game by getting fouls & free points
larry drew MO: only two guys {one being 6′8} rebound everyone else shoot, no size/finishers in transition
no stops=no fast breaks
I don’t see how anyone sees Rasheed or Ben in Horford. Joe is an overpaid Rip
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
4:14 pm
better yet I gonna use my scroll button…….LOL
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
4:27 pm
“You could appreciate and comprehend this if you’d stop drinking all of that HATERADE.”
Dude you appear to be drinking the Cool-aid…Taste good??? 44 years later it hasn’t spoiled???Wow…
Awesome…LOL
nba-stinks
June 12th, 2011
4:29 pm
When is this crap team moving to SEATTLE ???? Needs to have been gone from This city years ago. Worthless franchise & owners and everything that goes with it. Send them to SEATTLE ASAP Please, Atlanta does not need pro basketball, Who Cares ??????
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
4:35 pm
Miami by 8 tonight!! Labron goes for 25,10, and 5….
hawksfancents95
June 12th, 2011
4:58 pm
@ buddy grizzard
ill be on here during the whole draft to give my two cents and listen to everyone elses thoughts. I cant wait till june 23rd. The draft is usually a very stressful time for me because I know how the hawks are and i cant really trust their scouting/decision making. But no first rounder this year so im not too stressed so i just hope we draft someone who can A) be on the team next season not some foreigner who might come over in two years B) give us some decent minutes and actually get off the end of the bench and contribute (plz god no 6′8or 6′9 tweener pf/c combo player we got enough of them)
second thought… why during the NBA lottery are cameras not allowed to film the balls coming up live? we get to see our beloved GA mega millions #s come up live so we know there is no fraud, yet the NBA does not let us see them come up live..hmmmm
ArtMan
June 12th, 2011
5:27 pm
Ken,
I generally can relate to your perspective on many of your posts but I am still somewhat skeptical that the Hawks will be improved next year. Defensively we should be better but I am skeptical that the effort will be there on a consistent basis. I still make the assertion that the players have already stopped listening to Drew. If you remember the last few games of the season where the Hawks were playing poorly and Drew stated the players needed to pick up their intensity for the last couple games to get ready for the playoffs. It didn’t happen. If your coach says to pick up the intensity and the players don’t, isn’t that a sign the players were not listening to him? Of course the players did pick up the intensity for the playoffs which I think is attributed to prior playoff experience. When Josh was shooting long shot after long shot at a sub 30% rate, did Drew take him out? Why would your two best inside players play on the perimeter and leave no one to rebound? A good coach would try to maximize the players talents and not accept whatever they wanted to do. From my perspective the Hawks underperformed as a team and that falls on the coach. If we had a better coach it would be easier to share your optimism.
Showtime Frontcourt: Smith, Motiejunas, Hill, Hasheem, Pachulia
June 12th, 2011
5:45 pm
make the trades sund. Leslie, Motiejunas, Jordan Hill, Hasheem
or
Marvin Williams + Kirk Hinrich + Al Horford ($12mil) from Milwaukee Larry Sanders + Andrew Bogut ($11mil) + John Salmons + Drew Gooden
36 mpg: J.Teague (16), J.Johnson (16), J.Smith (16), L.Sanders*(10), A.Bogut (14) = 72ppg
12 mpg: K. Hinrich (4), J. Salmons (4), A. Kirilenko (5), D. Gooden (5), Z. Pachulia(4) = 22ppg
Showtime Frontcourt: Smith, Motiejunas, Hill, Hasheem, Pachulia
June 12th, 2011
5:49 pm
make the trades sund. Leslie, Motiejunas, Jordan Hill, Hasheem
or
Marvin Williams + Kirk Hinrich + Al Horford ($12mil) from Milwaukee Larry Sanders + Andrew Bogut ($11mil) + John Salmons + Drew Gooden
36 mpg: J.Teague (16), J.Johnson (16), J.Smith (16), L.Sanders*(10), A.Bogut (14) = 72ppg
12 mpg: I. Shumpert***(4), J. Salmons (4), A. Kirilenko (5), D. Gooden (5), Z. Pachulia(4) = 22ppg
Damnit
June 12th, 2011
5:50 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jqrq9g
Najeh Davenpoop
June 12th, 2011
6:07 pm
A front court that includes Motiejunas, Hill, and Thabeet can only be characterized as a garbage time front court.
hawksfancents95
June 12th, 2011
6:38 pm
Heres a look at a decade of Hawks picks from 2000-2010
Of our 26 total draft picks we traded away 3(Pau Gasol,Terrence Morris, Jordan Crawford) and kept 23
-of those 23 only 6 are still on our current roster(sy,teague,gladyr,horford,marvin,josh)
–of our 23 picks since 00, 11 are not in the league anymore, 6 are on our team and 6 are across the league (diaw, childress, sheldon,soloman,acie,Jordan Crawford)
*break down of our darft class by year*
2000-#6-Demarr Johnson #40 Hanno Mottola #57 Scottie Penn
coulda been’s- Deshawn Stevenson #23
2001- #3-Pau Gasol(traded to MEM with Lorenzen Wright,Breven Knight for Shareef Abdur-Rahim) #27-Jamal Tinsley #34 Terrence Morris(traded to HOU for future pick)
coulda been’s- #29-tony Parker #31 Gilbert Agent 0
2002-#37 David Anderson
coulda been’s- #46 Matt Barnes #56 Luis Scola
2003-#21-Boris Diaw #37 Travis Hansen
coulda been’s- #27 Kendrick Perkins #47 Mo Williams
2004-#6 Josh Childress #17 Josh Smith #35 Donta Smith #38 Royal Ivey #43 Viktor Sanikidze
coulda been’s- #9 Andre Iguodola #44 Trevor Ariza
2005- #2 Marvin Williams #31 Salim Stoudemire #59 Cenk Akyol
coulda been’s- #3 Deron Williams #4 Chris Paul #40 Monta Ellis
2006- #5 Sheldon Williams #33 Soloman Jones
coulda been’s- #8 Rudy Gay #42 Daniel Gibson
2007- #3 Al Horford #11 Acie Law
coulda been’s- I thought Al was a lock at 3 and I loved Acie out of TA&M being a lefty and being clutch. We blame woody for Acie. weak class other than KD35
2008- No picks
2009- #19 Jeff Teague #49 Sergi Gladyr
coulda been’s-no one. Teague shows great promise and there is no one picked behind Gladyr that is a factor in this league.
2010-#24 Damion James(traded to NJ for Jordan Crawford) #53 Pape Sy
coulda been’s- Willie Warren at #54 might be something in the next few years but Sy might turn up to be a good player
how will this decade turn out? June 23, 2011
2011-#48
coulda been’s-hope I don’t have to fill this in
Ken Strickland
June 12th, 2011
6:40 pm
SLIMJR-I guess when it’s all said and done, you’re unable to accept the challenge of providing anything beyond your unstantiated self serving negative minded BS opinions. Even though I’ve tried to get you to do so, I’ve noticed you haven’t had anything else to say about your beloved Derrick Williams and his scouting report, other than to put down the person who made the report.
I do agree with you about one thing, and that is you need to use your scroll button, because with you, it’s obvious the truth hurts.
There’ll be one very big question facing the Hawks this upcoming season, and it’s whether LDrew will continue his bias against youth. Will he continue making excuses simular to the ones he made to keep Bibby in place, and just hand the starting position to Hinrich? Or, will he consider moving JJ to SF and start them both?
Also, will he have the same repressive attitude and approach towards Pape Sy that he had towards Teague last season? Will a HC who heavily favors OFF over DEF give any serious thought to starting, or consistently playing, 2 young guards(Pape Sy and Teague)who are more DEF than OFF minded?
I just don’t see how having Hinrich’s added speed, quickness, consistency, as well as penetrating and DEF ability won’t be a tremendous upgrade over MBibby. And Teague’s speed, quickness, penetrating and DEF ability will make up for the loss of JCrawford.
In fact, his 14.5PPG against the Bulls and the league MVP is about what we got from Jamal this past season, except Jamal didn’t bring any DEF or consistency. I am very excited about seeing how well this team will do with a compentent PG and solid perimeter DEF.
DC
June 12th, 2011
6:49 pm
Does anyone think Leslie will be available at 48, because if he is, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE that pick. I know he probably wouldn’t play much but he is an athletic freak. Imagine a line up of Teague, a developed Leslie, and Smoove. I’m sure we’d see that lineup at some point and we’d just over power teams with sheer athleticism. Leslie has all the tools to make it work in the NBA, and I’d love him to stay in GA where he’s been all along. The only issue is I’m sure the Hawks would find a way to kill his career because we fail at player development.
Again, no one has echoed my sentiments, but I think Nene is a MUST. Does anyone else think that? He would be the perfect addition to this team for the center position, which would shift Al down to the 4 he so desperately wants to play, Smoove to the 3 where he can go to work in the post (if we can find a damn way to get him off the three point line), then Teague and Joe, unless we trade Joe (fingers crossed!). Nene is the perfect blue collar worker, with an absolute beast rebounding prowess and physicality, again, a rich man’s Kendrick Perkins. Does anyone else think Nene should be our FA focus?
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
7:05 pm
Take a hike buster!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
June 12th, 2011
7:07 pm
Keep drinking the Cool-aid, you deserve too…