Atlanta Hawks: Rick Sund Q & A

Finally caught up with Rick Sund today. Here’s the transcript of the interview. . . .

Q. I haven’t talked to you since the end of the regular season. You did better in the playoffs but you did worst during the regular season . . .

I pretty much predicted that. I did a radio show and they brought that up that you pretty much said the team wouldn’t be as good during the regular season but better in the playoffs and that’s pretty much what we were.

Q. But do you look at regular season, where you had some blowout home losses and the offense and defense regressed and . . . .

I think other than–Oklahoma City and Chicago were the only two teams that didn’t have a lot of highs and lows during the season. Certainly LA did and Dallas did and Miami did. Your [media] colleagues had Spoelstra fired three times. So it’s been up and down and we fell right into that. We’ve been up and down. I’d like to think that helped us. I’m hoping that was one reason we were stoic during the playoffs.

Q. Do you think this core group has peaked?


Q. How can it be better?

In some ways it might be a little bit like Dallas, although we were younger than Dallas. Dallas went three straight years with disappointing playoffs and eliminated in the first round and I think that prompted Cuban the other day to grab the mic and say, ‘For all you people that didn’t believe in us . . . ‘ Because they kept their core group together including Kidd and Nowitzki and Marion and they got criticized for that quite a bit. And they got beat pretty much embarrassingly, by their standards, in the last three years. I think we have learned along the way. We will look at the possibility of making our team better. We do every year. We’ve made two major trades the last two years and we will continue to look and see if there is something that makes us better.

Q. You look at Dallas, they did make a trade that helped them so . . .

Yeah, well, you asked me about the core group and that’s what I’m responding to. The core group of our players have, I think, improved every single year. I’ve had that question every year, even the year I got here: Can this core group get even better? And they have, I think, in terms of ultimately the playoffs.

Q. So you are not inclined to break it up?

I didn’t say that. I said we will continue to look. Your question was, ‘Can this core be competitive again?’ I think we were pretty competitive in the playoffs. I think we can continue to do it but I think we will look, like we do every year, to see if we can do something to make our club better.

Q. Maybe that was the wrong question, then. Do you think this group is good enough to reach your goals?

Hopefully. Hopefully.

Q. The CBA is up in the air. As it looks now you don’t have a lot of flexibility so how can you improve the team considering those constraints?

I can’t even answer that until we know what the rules are.

Q. Are you hoping to end up with more flexibility in the new CBA?

We can’t even comment on the CBA and I won’t. I think, for good reason, we have one voice, that’s David Stern. Until we get what the new collective bargaining is, it’s very, very hard to assess.

Q. Listening to Al and his comments, it’s clear he prefers to play the four and thinks he’s more effective there. Would you look to get a full-time center to accommodate him?

I don’t know. So many of the players that are really, really good, and Al is one of those, they have the ability to play dual positions. I think he’s established himself he can play five; he’s established he can play four. That’s a good combo for us.

Q. You are just back from Chicago and Minneapolis. You don’t have the No. 18 pick that you traded, but you do have the second-round pick. Any hope of getting help from the draft?

We look at the last 10 years who has been drafted between 45 and 50, because that’s kind of a grouping. It’s too early. The Chicago combine is over, the group workout in Minnesota is over. We have got some group workouts we are doing here in June and you are always hoping you can get someone who has an upside of some sort. It’s difficult to find someone to come in and find someone who can play right away. When you have a good team, it’s difficult to get someone who is drafted [even] in the first round to come in and play right away.

Q. You said after last year you are of the mind that you don’t need an MVP candidate to be a championship contender but when you look at it historically, almost every single champion has had that first team All-NBA guy so how . . .

It is going to be very hard for us to get that MVP candidate unless you pick one or two [in the draft]. And we are not picking one or two. Or unless you happen to have–a few years back when they had free-agent money, to get one in free agency. It’s going to be tough, so we are going to have to do it the hard way. We are going to have to do it similar to what Detroit did in their day, when they had the Eastern Conference finals five straight times, went to Finals and one won, where it is a collective effort. Unless we get an MVP or unless someone emerges as that kind of guy.

Q. Do you have that kind of guy?

I don’t think we have an MVP candidate.

Q. What I mean is, do you have that guy on your team who can emerge into that kind of player?

Time will tell on that. It depends on what happens in the next year or any kind of player transaction or in the future. But basically we have pretty much built it around get as much talent as we possibly can, blend it around and have a team effort. Now we’ve got two players on this roster who have made All-Pro, we have got two players made All-Star and another one knocking on the door. We’ve got a player in Hinrich who has been kind of that gritty, tough complimentary player and has made All-Defense. So it is going to have to be a collective effort.

Q. How is Teague’s health?

He is coming along fine. No surgeries.

Q. After what Teague did against Chicago, do you feel good about point guard with him and Hinrich?

I felt good about it before Chicago with Hinrich and Jeff. He should be a senior in college, graduating this year. He’s just a young guy. He’s always had some real great physical tools. He just had an opportunity where he got an opportunity for consecutive playing time and he responded well. And that’s what you have to do in this league, when your opportunity comes, take advantage of it. And to his credit, I think most of the time he has had an opportunity. . . . . Even a year ago, when we said, ‘We are going to let you play, don’t worry about it win lose or draw,’ and he had a nice game against Cleveland. This year against Boston and it was a situation where Jamal missed four or five games, Joe didn’t play, and Jeff played real good in that game. We did the trade where Mike left and he got significant minutes and in that time. To his credit he has done a really good job for a young player and only getting spot play, role playing, that when he got an opportunity to get consistent minutes he responded pretty well.

Q. Do you see that continuing going forward as far as him getting consistent minutes?

I think so. For him, it was a real confidence booster. Because it’s hard when you are a role player and waiting for your opportunity and your turn as a young player, you need to take advantage of that. And he did and that’s good for him and good for us.

Q. When there was trade speculation last fall about Josh, you talked to him and reassured him. Now that there is more speculation, and he seemed frustrated with a lot of the criticism he got during the playoffs, do you talk to him again?

No, I’ve talked to him a number of times—collectively, our team—and the age of the Internet, bloggers make trades and then media feel compelled to write, and don’t worry about that. If an opportunity presents itself to improve our club, they know we would do it. Bibby got traded, Mo got traded, we traded for Jamal, we traded our draft pick—they know we will pull the trigger. But one thing I’m not into is addition by subtraction or shopping one guy or two guys. We are looking to see what makes us better as we go forward.

Q. But I think the difference this time with Josh is the frustration is coming from him as far as saying ‘I’m taking too much of the heat.’

He hasn’t expressed that to me.

Q. Is there any chance Pape Sy will be in the plans next season?

Too early to tell. He’s under contract so he will be here unless he is involved in a trade or something. We will go forward to see how his improvement is. He didn’t get a chance for much playing time, although with Chicago I think it was good that he was on the roster because with Hinrich being hurt and a few games at the end he got to get out there and play a little bit. But he’s a a young player, too.

Q. Larry was in his first year as a head coach. How did he do?

I make comparisons to Larry with Nate McMillan. I was with Nate his first full-time year, first training camp. One time I had a kind of a real nice talk with Nate, I said, ‘You will be better in year two than you were in year one, you will be better in year three than year two, you will be better in year four than year three. Because even tough you were an assistant coach and you were a player it’s completely different position when you move over 25 inches.’ I think Larry got better. I think he was very good in the playoffs. I think his confidence level and his belief in the players and the players’ belief in him improved and that’s just the maturation process that coaches go through.

Q. Why was the team so much worse at home this season?

I don’t know. I didn’t think we would get 34 wins again at home. I felt one thing is for sure, we are a more comfortable team on the road today than the year before.

Q. I only keep bringing up the blowout home losses because you don’t usually see that with winning teams.

Every team has clunkers. We had more than you normally do. The big thing is, Can you bounce back from the clunkers? Do the clunkers affect you going into the playoffs? And they didn’t. Our team seemed to show some resiliency to those. Hopefully you don’t have them again. But we had more than you would expect.

Q. Who do you see as the teams you are chasing? Obviously there is Miami now, is it still Boston, Chicago . . .

We said last year before the season started, we wanted to keep the teams behind us, behind us and make strides in front of us. And Cleveland became Miami with LeBron. I think we made strides on Orlando and we didn’t keep Chicago behind us, they leapfrogged everybody. We did keep everybody else behind us. Again, we need to do that. It’s the same goal as Orlando, Miami, Boston. I think it is pretty much going to be the same. The league gets better. There is no question the Eastern Conference was better this year. That’s another reason I didn’t think our record would be as good but by the time the playoffs came around I thought we would be better.

Q. Larry’s offense didn’t go the way he planned as far as getting team to play that style all the time. Do you still think this . . .

I don’t know. You have got to ask that question to Larry.

Q. Joe got the contract and he had his worst year since he’s been here. He’s getting older, he had the injury, so are you concerned . . .

Well, I don’t worry about the old. When I am seeing Jason Kidd and Nowitzki and the Wades and all these people in their 30s, that doesn’t bother me. Joe has got a durable, strong . . . and he did have a lot of injuries and he had an elbow situation and pre- and post-surgery he is such a tough guy he played with that. Not really [concerned]. I was really happy with Joe’s playoffs. I thought he played really well, particuarly the games that we won, he stepped up big time, particularly in the fourth quarter. I think that’s part of the experience, being into it and the pressure. There are only three teams that have made it to the conference semifinals three consecutive years: L.A., Boston and us. Two of those teams have won the championship. Another thing with Joe, if it is correct I didn’t verify it, Joe has been to the second round a number of times and three with the Hawks. Carmelo Anthony, who was probably one of the most sought after players during the trade deal, he’s only made it to the second round once. [Note: That's correct.] Chris Paul has only made it to the second round once. Deron Williams has only made it to the second round once. All the years Kevin Garnett was with [Minnesota], he only made it once. Joe has made it three times. So he’s done a pretty good job of being the best player on your club in terms of getting there. Now his challenge and opportunity is getting to that next round. I think he gave a pretty good effort in the Chicago series.

Q. During the playoffs Joe expressed frustration with whether it was best share the ball or for him to try to do more. It seems like he never really . . .

I don’t know. That’s between him and Larrry. But from my perspective I thought he did a pretty good job. When the game was on the line, those close games. . . . You take any team. Oklahoma City. Some games Durant was really good in the fourth quarter, some games it was Westbrook; other games [Durant] was terrible in the fourth quarter. Take Miami. There were people that were criticizing Bosh in the first round. Somebody has got to do it. Most of the time, a lot of the time, it’s your best player. Other times it’s not. When Boozer did it for Chicago they were really good in those games. I try not to get too high on the highs or too low on the lows. The playoffs can really cause that. The highs and the lows of the playoffs are unbelievable from a fan and media perspective. Miami loses to Chicago in a fashion where Chicago pretty much dominated and dictated that game, and everyone wrote Miami off and said that’s it. There is no way that Miami is good enough, blah, blah, blah, blah. Dallas wins the first game, loses the second game, and [they said] ‘There is no way Dallas is going to be able to go into Oklahoma City as loud as that is and the enthusiasm.’ You don’t get too high on it. It’s a progress or it’s a leapfrog. Chicago leapfrogged. Ours is more of a progression and I think Joe did a pretty good job.

Q. When you say ‘progression’ it sounds like you think you are close to breaking through to that next level?

I thought we were pretty close this year, yeah. I really do. I think a good thing is, last year they were embarrassed in the second round. They didn’t play very good. Orlando manhandled them and they didn’t handle it very well. So they were disappointed by the embarrassment. This year they were disappointed that the opportunity was there, they were close, and they didn’t get there. There’s a big difference in the two. Big difference. I think that’s a progression. I heard Nowitzki say that the other day, ‘Hey we weren’t very happy with the last three years.’ They were concerned because they lost their last nine games to playoff teams in the Western Conference. Then they played New Orleans the last game of the season, it was meaningless, and they won. It’s all, What is your mindset? How does it go in the first playoff game, how does your momentum go? For us, they were focused in the Orlando series. They were focused in the Chicago series; Chicago beat them. But they were focused. It wasn’t a situation of them not competing or giving up. I think they thought it was going to be easier last year in the Orlando series and it wasn’t.

Q. What does the team need, in your opinion?

They need to continue to get the maturity. They need to continue to become the physical team they were in the playoffs. I think they need to deal better with the 82 games when adversity comes. This was a strange year because the whole league was like that with the exception of those two teams [Chicago and Oklahoma City]. Erik Spoelstra was fired three times by the media. You had a situation where the Lakers, three or four games before the All-Star game, ‘They’ve got to break it up. They’ve got to make a trade.’ And then they came out of the All-Star break and they win 17 of 18 games. You’ve got a situation in Dallas where Nowitzki gets hurt they lose six or seven in a row, he comes back they lose two or three more. Nobody picked Dallas. I’ve never seen a season—and maybe it’s because the league has gotten better—that was so up and down and all over the board with the playoff clubs. I think we as a team, to answer your question, we have got to stay more focused during the 82 games. We haven’t proved we are championship-caliber. We knocked on the door; we want to get there. Sometimes you will see really good championship teams coast through the year and say, ‘We are waiting for the second season.’ We can’t do that, even though we are one of the teams that the last three years made it to the second round. I think we have got to focus on that a little more during the season. I think that’s got to be one of our priorities because it helps with with positioning. I think we got a little lax on that because we have gone three straight years. Certainly we got lax at it when we got locked up the last couple weeks. Some of that, though, may have helped us because it got Teague more minutes.

Q. Those are mostly intangibles you are talking about. From a personnel standpoint, what do you think the team needs?

I don’t know. We are still in the process of evaluating that.

Q. Are you talking to Jamal about a contract extension?

I’m not going to discuss contract stuff. Jamal knows that we want to do everything in our power to bring him back but we don’t know what the [CBA] rules are yet.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

445 comments Add your comment


May 28th, 2011
11:03 pm

“Also, what good will it do to trade for draft picks when you have a HC that would much rather make excuses than commit to developing and playing those picks”

@Ken, good point!


May 28th, 2011
11:26 pm

“Josh Smith or Al Horford to Cleveland for Varaejo and the #4 pick. Then move that #4 pick along with a 2nd rounder in next years draft and our 1st rounder in the 2012-13 draft and pick Derrick Williams. I think people are starting to see what I know, this dude is a SUPERSTAR, not star or all-star but SUPERSTAR and he is the only one in this draft. Now, since that’s the only way we can get a MVP in Sund’s flawed opinion, why is he not trying to make the move? He said it himself get the 1st or 2nd pick and you have a chance at a MVP. Why are we not knocking on that door?”

It’s long over due by decades for the Hawks to win the darn thing!!!
If addition by subtraction needs to occur, make it so….Aye Captain!
Derrick is the real deal! I agree with you……


May 28th, 2011
11:51 pm

I think Rick Sund and the ASG can win the fans over if they would allow the fans to chose the players(rather it be in the draft or on the free agent market) and a coach who they feel is capable of winning a championship for the city of Atlanta.

Example:(free agents) 1)Tyson Chandler 2)Tayshaun Prince 3)Shane Battier 4)Zydrunas Ilgauskas 5)Josh Howard

If 65 % of the fans are in favor of signing Tyson Chandler they should sign him. This also should apply in the draft and coaching change if needed.

The present and former owners, gms and coaches had 42 years to bring a championship to the city of Atlanta but failed. Not even a NBA Finals appearance! I think they should give the fans an opportunity to chose the players and coaches who they feel have what it takes to bring a championship to the ATL.


May 29th, 2011
12:00 am

The Awesome BLOGGERS on this site would acquire the appropriate personal and coach them to a championship within 3-4 years!



May 29th, 2011
12:12 am

“I think Rick Sund and the ASG can win the fans over if they would allow the fans to chose the players(rather it be in the draft or on the free agent market) and a coach who they feel is capable of winning a championship for the city of Atlanta.

Example:(free agents) 1)Tyson Chandler 2)Tayshaun Prince 3)Shane Battier 4)Zydrunas Ilgauskas 5)Josh Howard

If 65 % of the fans are in favor of signing Tyson Chandler they should sign him. This also should apply in the draft and coaching change if needed.

The present and former owners, gms and coaches had 42 years to bring a championship to the city of Atlanta but failed. Not even a NBA Finals appearance! I think they should give the fans an opportunity to chose the players and coaches who they feel have what it takes to bring a championship to the ATL.


Brilliant man…

Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill

May 29th, 2011
12:26 am

low post scorer? high post. mid post scorer?

Jordan, Kukoc
Mark Aguirre?
Dirk Nowitzki?
Shawn Marion?

Josh Smith at 230-236 ie a lankier Carmelo?
Horford has peaked. Smith has peaked unless he loses 10 lbs like Kobe Bryant bulked down to preserve his body.
Looking at this draft there is Motiejunas, a sure thing in UGA Travis Leslie Jordan Hill Thabeet.

we just cant rely on 3s getting us out of holes these small lineups create. Chris Webber blamed the management,

Jeff Teague (16&5)/Joe Johnson (18&5)/Josh Smith (17&9)/Donatas Motiejunas* (18 & 9)/Hasheem Thabeet (8 & 8)

thats a lineup of guys that can all score 2 buckets a quarter by playing inside out.
3 FTA per game is unacceptable from a power forward.

if we get “Kukoc 2.0″ Motiejunas + 24yo Thabeet + a D-Wade clone who is at worst an athletic slasher with who works the pick and roll and gets plenty of free throws. AND an Amare-clone buried on the bench by Adelman.

Sund honestly people want to just see moves made, but we dont want the same media analysts who picked the Hawks too get swept to dictate managements idea of who is untouchable.

We got out of the 1st round again, big deal. Pacers aree a step ahead as they are drafting a center.

Atlanta can be a hub for good players but you have to put a good team together first.
Trading Al Horford is the only way for this franchise to gain respect. Joe Johnson 6′8 sg is unique, that Josh Smith guy who is built like a stretched out Thaddeus Young was pretty unique b4 the org told him they couldnt get a legit center.

The only way to restructure theget a legit center is through all 3rd nba PF Horford..

# Al on possibly adding a full-time center: “It’s going to be an interesting offseason because I think there are probably going to be some changes. I think having a bigger player like that to help is always a great strength and a great help. We will see what happens. I do like playing power forward. I like playing the center, as well, but if we can have another bigger body that would be great.”

# Smoove on if he prefers to play the 3: “It is what it is. It’s a controversial question. I’m just here to play.”

Do we want to add a luxury tax center only for Smith to have no spacing and rely on Horford to space the floor? Horford isn’t Dwight Howard at the 4. He cant get the missed shots .
Hes a feast or famine jump shooter.

How many times did we see fat Josh take a slow fadeaway with no elevation Deng, and hit it.
You’ve seen the 6′10 lefty Zach Randolph PFs in the post dominate since year 3. he plays 5 he cant post them up and becomes more of a shooter.

We’ve seen the 6′8 lefty Smith dominate SFs/SGs in the post dominate since year 4.he plays 4s he cant post them up and becomes more of a shooter.

Stop trying to trick us into thinking Smith is the Superman. Give us a post presence! Do your 2 a days and get Smith at 236 at the 3. He posts up more than Melo despite going against bigger guys andd getting blocked frequently.

Smith: 7′0
Carmelo: 7′0
height difference: .75 inch height

Motiejunas= same small wingspan as lefty Zach Randolph. Did it hurt him or help his stroke?
Travis Leslie= last 6′4/6′5 person with a 6′10.5 wingspan? Dwyane Wade James Harden

Jordan Hill= {6′10.25, drafted@23lbs, Amare= {6′10, drafted@232lbs,7′1.75wingspan}
^^^and we got this guy coming off our bench with Pachulia?!!
come on, he’s so fluid there will be times when theres little no drop off with 7′0 “Zach Randolph”Motiejunas

Do we want positive change or mediocrity?

Mediocrity? then forget drafting two potential Super stars and restructuring the bench.
stay with 3rd all nba mediocre jack of all trades Horford.

We don’t need a 7′3 low maintenance double double threat at center. Hawks will never get any respect if this opportunity is passed.

No elite team is scared of Horford at any position. sad but true.
And No elite team is scared of SF Josh at the 4. Bosh? Dirk? turf toe Boozer nope.

Josh at the 3. leak outs all day and Motiejunas(Z-Bo) trailing with Joe on perimeter
anyone have the SF clearout on the right side where Smith was fouled?

The scary part is Smith was at 245. Imagine how fast he’d be if he was closer 230.

Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill

May 29th, 2011
12:43 am

Michael Beasley was a surefire prospect. Williams is even bigger (less lateral speed) and heavier. Generally Big guys can’t penetrate into the teeth of the defense unless they post up and make a face up move or just fake and get past primary defender.

He is going to be heavily reliant on his jumper and even Lebron lost a lot of games his rookie season I believe. get Donatas (Z-Bo 2.0) Motiejunas and Travis (Tony Allen/Dwyane Wade)

as is your center is Jason Collins huh. If Larry Drew can’t install a post up offense like Dallas or LA then he should be ashamed.
Every championship team has a post option.
1988 &1989 Pistons had Aguirre if I recall. I reckon [a leaner] Smith can get fouled a bit more in a big lineup.

Jeff Teague (16&5)/Joe Johnson (18&5)/Josh Smith (17&9)/Donatas Motiejunas* (18 & 9)/Hasheem Thabeet (8 & 8)

Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
Houston gets

Al Horford
Pape Sy

Atlanta gets

Hasheem Thabeet
Jordan Hill
14th pick
23rd pick

ATL is embarassed they have Marvin and Williams at $8 mil. they had Teague all along and small ball backcourts and frontcourts have failed across the league.

Everyone knows Smith is a 3 and Horford is a veteran tweener. Trade him to Houston for Motiejunas Leslie Thabeet and Hill!
Our bench is incredibly strong. I mean Travis Leslie off the bench? Low case Tony Allen who had a top 5 PER at sg in spot minutes? I cant believe those guys could fall to us if we had those picks.


May 29th, 2011
12:58 am

Release the Atlanta Spirit Group, Release Rick Sund, Release Larry Drew, Release Marvin Williams, Let Jamal Crawford move on, And start from 0.

Ken Strickland

May 29th, 2011
2:31 am

With a lockout looming this summer, it’s going to be a long hot summer and there is every likelihood of there being a never ending accumulation of fantasy trade suggestions. Getting rid of Bibby, the projected release of JCrawford, and the injury to KHinrich, which led to Teague being released from LDrews jail house, has completely transformed what was previously a very pourous and frequently exploited perimeter DEF.

Our current projected backcourt of Hinrich and Teague will be quicker, faster, far, far, far superior defensively, and far more versatile, because of its ability to consistently penetrate into the lane, especially without the use of clearouts and ISO’s.

The ability to get into the lane without having everyone clearout will not only increase our OFF rebounding capability, but create easier scoring opportunities, more FT attempts, and lessen our dependence of jump shots. I also believe the emergence of Teague will factor into the decision not to make any of the drastic trades so many of you are campaigning for.

Can anyone say with any degree of certainty that we wouldn’t have won the Bulls series, or at least won gm 5, if Hinrich and Teague had been able to play together? And for those JSmith and AHorford lovers/haters, you might as well get over your issues with both. Why, because if the Hawks decide to trade one of them for a low post center, they will trade JSmith.

Horford is more versatile and valuable, since he very effectively plays C & PF, more mature, with superior leadership qualities, and his deadly accurate midrange jumper makes him a far better fit playing next to a low post center. The problem I’m having is with LDrews stubborn preference for vet PG’s, even if they’re hurting the team, and his disdane for younger PG’s like Teague. With Hinrich on board, we might see him try to include Teague, our PG of the future, in a trade. That would put the franchise, and its PG issues, back where it started with Woodson.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 29th, 2011
2:38 am

If a guy has already been a total bust on two teams, the last place he’s likely to turn his career around is here, where even this team’s own draft picks can’t get on the floor. Just sayin’.

Worldwide Clyde

May 29th, 2011
2:51 am


May 29th, 2011
4:44 am

Thabbet is a bigger bust than Marvin.

He is nothing more than an overhyped Sene

DC Hawk

May 29th, 2011
8:08 am

Can the hawks get sold and leave town? Im tired of one bad decision after another. Its like a running joke. Can you say a team without a future? Its the same team with Mookie Blaylock and Steve Smith. This team has no future and no flexibility to make any significant moves. We need to blow it up again and start over. The problem is that we have terrible owners and a bad GM. I wish we can start with a new franchise with one owner that wants to win and not a group of owners interested in making money.


May 29th, 2011
9:56 am

“Addendum to my last trade idea:

“C.Paul – secretly forms a coterie with D. Howard…
to join him in 2012…in the Atl !

Alas…Alack…but for a GM with vision.”

Nice Dream for us Basketball fans? Can you say Championship run 2113,14?

Rockets fan said

May 29th, 2011
10:45 am

“I think that Atlanta could possibly do something like this. Let’s face facts, you keep Smith and Johnson, but the rest of the team is pretty expendable. The way they are, they’ll make the playoffs, but fail again in the 1st or second round.

This is a team in need of somewhat major re-tooling. I wouldn’t be suprised at all to see teams like Atlanta, Orlando, Indiana, to name a few, that will make some major moves once it is clearer what is happening with the lockout.

If it was offered, (the proposed trade) I’d take it in a heartbeat. It’s not like Carl Landry is part of the deal…….”

Joe Johnson is a bad rebounder and defender, with 6′9 t-rex arms. However on offense he shoots over people easily and has a tight handle.

“Blue collar guys that do stuff that doesnt show up in the statbook”.-Joe Johnson
Jason Collins was our best center as far as pick setting and he was a step slow. Go watch some tape of Thabeet and Jordan Hill and Motiejunas who projects to be Zach Randolph down low with more height to shoot.

check Josh’s +/- on offense then check Horford’s there the exact same +0.1 differential.
Horford getting more iso touches against Bosh will not save this team. Sorry guys. He will never be Amare Stoudemire at this point is career.
We need a center. Next year’s draft the top center is 7′0 200 lbs, Horford is smarter than most centers but at power forward his skills disappear against length and quickness.

Horford is not versatile, he’s admired for being undersized center but he’s gone.


May 29th, 2011
10:51 am

“Horford getting more iso touches against Bosh will not save this team. Sorry guys. He will never be Amare Stoudemire at this point is career.
We need a center. Next year’s draft the top center is 7′0 200 lbs, Horford is smarter than most centers but at power forward his skills disappear against length and quickness.”

This is why Sund has not won name nothing in 31 years.. This is what LARRY AND SUND do not register but most of the Bloggers do about ALLstar AL!!
Excellent analysis of AllstarAl….He should be shopped at least to see what you can get to improve this team..They’ve peaked…Got to use the addition by subtraction formula at this point in the game..

Big Ray

May 29th, 2011
11:11 am

My nomination for best post in the whole blog :

Najeh Davenpoop

May 27th, 2011
8:22 pm

“I think other than–Oklahoma City and Chicago were the only two teams that didn’t have a lot of highs and lows during the season. Certainly LA did and Dallas did and Miami did. Your [media] colleagues had Spoelstra fired three times. So it’s been up and down and we fell right into that. We’ve been up and down. ”

Yeah, I remember all those times when LA and Dallas and Miami were losing by 30 at home to .500 teams.

“In some ways it might be a little bit like Dallas, although we were younger than Dallas.”

Yeah, I see where the Hawks have a future Hall of Famer as a go-to guy on the current roster. Of course.

“When you have a good team, it’s difficult to get someone who is drafted [even] in the first round to come in and play right away. ”

Sure, if your coaching staff is comprised of incompetent buffoons who don’t know anything about developing young players.

“The core group of our players have, I think, improved every single year.”

I guess Jeff Teague is the only member of the core group.

“Or unless you happen to have–a few years back when they had free-agent money, to get one in free agency.”

Which, of course, the Hawks couldn’t do because Sund decided to give $20 million worth of annual salary to Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, and Zaza Pachulia in the summer of 2009.

“And to his credit, I think most of the time he has had an opportunity. . . . .”

…to collect splinters on his ass.

“I make comparisons to Larry with Nate McMillan.”

Coming from a front office that likes to compare Smoove to LeBron James, maybe they should stay away from comparisons altogether.

“There are only three teams that have made it to the conference semifinals three consecutive years: L.A., Boston and us.”

I’m surprised it took him this long to pull that out of the deck.

“Carmelo Anthony, who was probably one of the most sought after players during the trade deal, he’s only made it to the second round once. ”


“You had a situation where the Lakers, three or four games before the All-Star game, ‘They’ve got to break it up. They’ve got to make a trade.’ And then they came out of the All-Star break and they win 17 of 18 games.”

Which of course amounted to sh-t because they got embarrassed in the 2nd round and are now facing an offseason of turmoil and almost certain roster changes. Maybe they should have made that trade after all.


May 29th, 2011
11:37 am

I noticed that whenever Sund refers to the team he says, “They or them” not “We and us.” I think that says alot about this organization’s mentatlity and how it is run. From ownership to management, coaches to players it is just every man for himself. From top to bottom there is not much cameraderie on this team. Players are looking over there shoulder, as is the coach and so on. Sund’s moves do not reflect what Larry Drew is trying to accomplish. There obviously is no system in place; and if there is ppl aren’t on the same page. I’m not sure if Sund even knows what the hell he’s doing. In his interview he just tries to say the right things and manipulate facts that are beneficial to his situation. I’m convinced now, instead of saying we can’t win with JJ or j smith; Should be we cannot win with Sund!!!

Ken Strickland

May 29th, 2011
11:46 am

SLIMJR-As long as the team is owned by the ASG posse, and someone in that posse want’s to function as a behind the scene GM, our GM’s will be little more than puppets. Former GM BKnight resigned because the ASG wouldn’t allow him to do his job and make key decisions, like firing the HC he hired.

He wasn’t willing to be an ASG puppet, but it seems Sund is willing to play along and take the heat for decisions that are being made for him behind the scenes. If BKnight had remained as GM, and been allowed to fire Woodson, you can bet MBibby wouldn’t have been resigned, and JChildress would have been extended before that Greek offer was made.

You can also bet he wouldn’t have made the same mistake he made in hiring Woodson. He would have paid more attention and hired a HC who who would have been more honest about making a committment to developing and playing rookies and younger players. He would have made certain his new HC shared his vision of an uptempo, fast breaking team that actually committed to playing solid DEF.

If you want to blame Sund for anything, it should be for being willing to be a puppet and allow members of the ASG to pull his strings while he does a song and dance and takes the heat. Until Gearon and the ASG sells the team to someone with a clue and some money, we’ll continue down our current path of ups and downs, and uncertainty.

Sund compared the Hawks to the Pistons and Mavericks, but the players on those teams didn’t regress under their HC’s. We saw MBibby and MWilliams all but disappear, we’ve seen JSmith and AHorford take a step back, we saw regression and a loss or confidence with ALaw, and we would have likely seen the same with Teague had it not been for Hinrich’s injury.

When you consider the concept of CAUSE AND EFFECT, you have to blame the ASG for what’s happened, or hasn’t happened with this team. They were the ones who refused to allow BKnight to fire MWoodson, which contributed to us not drafting a quality PG. They forced BKnight out and hired Sund, who in turn hired LDrew, which I was originally in favor of.

They are the ones making the financial decisions and imposing the financial restraints. And they are the ones behind the scenes telling Sund what he can and can’t do. As far as trade suggestions are concerned, we need to be realistic and deal with possibilities, not fantasy league suggestions that have no chance of taking place.

1-DHOWARD-He’s already indicated he has no interest in returning to Atlanta. He wants to go to a much bigger market and be a big fish in a big pond, which is most likely LA.
2-CPaul-He’s already experienced playing for owner GShinn, who, like the ASG, is an owner who likes to meddle in team affairs and can be cheap at times. He also wants to be a big fish in a big pond, and he might have his eyes set on the Knicks.
3-DGranger-The Pacers are improving, and trading DGranger, their top scorer and best overall player, wouldn’t make much sense if they intend to continue improving.
4-ABogut-While he hasn’t had enough impact on the Bucs to improve their fortunes, or put them in the same class with the Hawks, some of you are sold on him. There hasn’t been a single rumor that indicates they have any interest in trading him.
5-Thabeet-Anyone suggesting we trade for him has got to be a total basketball illiterate, who thinks that size and height are far more important than talent and ability.
6-ABynum-He’s proven to be injury prone and immature. I would expect a lot more production from a Big that’s been tutored by Jabbar over the yrs. With the Lakers expecting to make a serious run at acquiring DHoward next season, and with their likelihood of wanting to retain PGasol, why would they trade away one of the assets needed to pull it off?
7-CKamen-With BGriffin firmly entrenched at PF, why would they consider trading for JSmith?
8-TChandler-As the starting center for a team in the finals, with a good chance to win it all, why would he want to go elsewhere, and why would Dallas let him go? Dallas would be far more willing to part with BHeywood and his salary, and we’d stand a much better chance of acquiring him than TChandler.

There just aren’t a lot of trade options for acquiring a quality center, or All Star caliber players like DGranger, CPaul, DHoward or ABogut. There’s no way in hell Sund and the ASG will trade Horford, JJ or JSmith for anything less in value, or for anyone that can’t immediately improve this team. So, that leaves retaining our core and seeing if KHinrich and Teague can change the overall dynamics and fortunes of the Hawks.


May 29th, 2011
11:49 am

we’ll probably miss out on Smith, Motiejunas, Thabeet frontcourt

somebody suggested Varejao, Horford and Derrick Williams. Varejao and Horford. Varejao and Horford. lol

Varejao is even less physical than Joakim Noah. Derrick Williams is Michael Beasley part 2 on offense and moves like Marvin Williams on defense.

We have a top 20 +/-guy in Josh Smith who can guard Luol Deng’s Rudy Gay’s and Durant’s.

Kobe 4.3
Bogut 4.2
Artest 3,2
Joe 3.2

Carmelo’s lack of defense makes him a +1.1
Horford’s lack of offense makes him a +1.4.
Shawn Marion. 0.8
Durant.lack of defense. lack of post ups. +1.1

Horford is a +1.4
Haywood is a +1.4.
Haddaddi is a +1.4.

stop the lovefest if we are to advance its not going to be on Hinrich as a backup, and Marvin
(virtually untradeable for a defense-1st player)Williams as a backup, and Jordan HIll as abackup, and Travis LESLIE as a backup with Dwyane Wade potential
and blue-collar Pachulia being a backup,

Motiejunas as what Horford will never be a Z-Bo with point guard awareness.
NOT win on giving up the best paint clogger starting being Josh Smith and Jason Collins.

Horford is a rebounder thats better than a lot of small guys but not star material and thats it.

“Over the past 20 postseasons, a 23-16-8-2 game happened nine times. Smith’s company is Shaquille O’Neal (three times), Hakeem Olajuwon (twice), Brad Daugherty (twice) and Pau Gasol (once). In the last five seasons, that stat line has been accomplished just three times in the regular season (twice by LeBron James, once by Vince Carter) and twice in the Playoffs (Smith and Gasol).

After the near triple-double in Game 4, Smith took the podium and was asked some questions about the previous game. “If you all want to blame it all on me for losing Game 3, it’s cool. I’ll take it, I’m a man,” he said, “You know we got a quote in there in the locker room that says, ‘Tough times never last, but tough people do’ and I consider myself a tough person.”
Smith has semi-HOF credentials but is a career loser. This gimmick ball must end. Smith lose the weight. Take Houston’s Jordan Hill and Thabeet as a 280 lb 7′3 starting center and

HINRICH is a backup to Teague. TEAGUE developing into a positive floor general=SUCCESS.
TEAGUE as a backup or SG = fail.
6′8 23, 16, 8 small forward=success

Thinking Al will become Dirk Nowitzki=fail.

Drafting a 7′0 pg-sg-sf-pf= success
Drafting a Tony Allen clone with better vert than D-Wade and potential to split doubles and work pick and rolls= success

Hell, at 6′4 Leslie could become the best slasher on this roster. lol if Joe Johnson becomes the 2nd best slasher sg on the team. wow.

nice to see Sund puts a lot into Horford being an All Star. Note to Sund that is a biased vote from coaches.
Coaches love Horf, great smile, well-spoken. Hell, he got 3 DPOY votes! Al Horford got 3 defensive player of the year votes.

Josh Smith who was 2nd overall last year I believe got 1. No one could guard Dwight.
But who couldn’t guard Joakim Noah? Al.

Who grabbed 16 boards and stepped up to defend Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, AND Joakim Noah to hide Al? Josh

who guards 7′1 power forward Andrea Bargnani? 6′8 Josh.
who guards 6′9 220 lb Amir Johnson? 6′10 245 lb Al

Coaches are propping up Al so Sund trades Smith away and Hawks are no longer a threat.

Scared to succeed Sund? trade Josh and/or play him at the 4.

Hamed Haddaddi has as much +/- as Al Horford. We could literally replace Horford with 20 7 footers centers and just replace Marvin with a mediocre power forward and replace Marvin with Josh and win the same amount of games.

Ken Strickland

May 29th, 2011
12:08 pm

ROCKER FAN-Thabeet is projected to continue being the disappointment he’s proven to be so far, and he’s shown no potential for getting better. And Montiejunas, who some of you seem to be in love with, is too young, light in the butt, and inexperienced to do what you and others are projecting for him.

He’s been judged and lauded for his OFF skills, which are considerable for a player his height, but he’s projected to be a PF, not a C, at the next level. His scouting report says he very soft and lacks the size and inclination to play center. He’s unwilling to put forth any effort on the DEF end of the court, and he’s a worse rebounder than most NBA guards.

Exactly what is the basis for projecting him to be an 8-9RPG player, when his career rebounding average in the Euro League is identical to what PG MBibby produced over the last 2yr? You obviously haven’t seen JJohnson play if you think he doesn’t play DEF. And what tape have you watched of Thabeet, and what should I be looking for. Hell, there probably isn’t any tape of him, considering his pitiful rebounding, shot blocking and scoring production for a player his size.

BIG RAY-That really was one helluva post wasn’t it?

Joe Johnson is basketball illiterate?

May 29th, 2011
12:25 pm

“5-Thabeet-Anyone suggesting we trade for him has got to be a total basketball illiterate, who thinks that size and height are far more important than talent and ability.”

First of all it was Al Horford and his 3 FTA per game for a more complete TEAM and moving Marvin to the bench. Nice low blow though.

Avoiding the luxury:
Losing Crawford will rob the Hawks of some scoring punch. But playing Teague more minutes, especially in combination with Smith at the 3 again, improves the defense.

“Needs can be had for cheap NBA teams tend to overvalue scorers. Fortunately for the Hawks , they still should have plenty of that even without Crawford.”
” What they lack is offensive diversity, rebounding and, as guard Joe Johnson noted, players who are scrappers instead of scorers.
“Blue-collar guys, guys who do a lot of dirty work and do a lot of things that don’t show up in the stat book, those are the kind of guys that can help us out,” Johnson said.

If I’m so basketball illiterate tell me how many ppg Jordan/Drexler etc averaged in college, then tell me Thabeet and Horford.
Only way production can come even close to increasing is through having speed, coordination to draw free throw attempts.

Horford will never be Dirk or Bosh and you saw it in the playoffs. Size matters. Undervalued offense can be had at other positions in THIS draft by mixing and matching positions.

Whoever said Horford is versatile is clueless. Gibson’s 7′4 reach is versatile, 6′9 Tayshaun Prince with his 7′2 wingspan at the 3 was versatile. Dennis Rodman at 6′7 who ran like a gazzelle and could undermine Shaq is versatile.

Al Horford is as versatile as David Lee with his shoes untied. On offense and defense. Sure he can guard centers but when Dwight comes out Dwight shoots over him with no effort.
Can’t say the same about 280 lb Perkins, 270 lb Thabeet or 270 lb? Jason Collins.
Dirk takes Horford too town, Bargnani takes him to town, Bosh takes him to town, etc.

what Thabeet and Perkins do doesn’t often show up in the box score. Thabeet is a 7′3 Joel Anthony, Kendrick Perkins stretched out etc.
Basketball illiterate doesnt entail following what ESPN and blogs say. Thabeet shows surprising skill for a 7′3 player and I would go as far as too say you could replace
Horford with
+7′0 foot Motiejunas, who has the footwork and length to score and play equal “defense” that is he gives up 10 lbs where Horford gives up ability to contest and long arms to grab boards.
Trading Horford replaces Marvin with JOSH SMITH, and Smith with Motiejunas and Thabeet. And Jordan Hill who is a taller Udonis Haslem and is still underdeveloped.
AND Travis Leslie who is a longer Tony Allen.
AND makes Pachulia the second best center AND replaces Jason Collins who is a younger longer quicker version of him.

If you dont think that’s a better package than an injury prone Bogut with Gooden and Salmons and Sanders who is an elite shot blocker but underdeveloped as a starter than fine.

But there is no way in Hades you can argue Horford and Williams is better than any two of those players combined.

Motiejunas +Thabeet>>> Williams + Horford

Williams is untradeable unless you attach him to Horford for Bogut but even then you get long contracts back.

If Leslie is merely Tony Allen or Gerald Henderson Jr (he plays SG/undersized SF for Charlotte for those who are basketball illiterate) and never works on his jump shot he is a better bench player than even John Salmons.

Those kind of players usually contribute to rebounding, defense and overall toughness. They also tend to be low-priced role players, who slipped in the draft.


May 29th, 2011
12:40 pm

Big Ray: Cosigning your 11:11 am post! I thought Najeh’s post was hilarious & so on point!

JoJo the Godfather

May 29th, 2011
12:46 pm

Thabeet is actually a decent rebounder & shot blocker, but he commits fouls at one of the highest rates in the league (would commit 8 fouls in 40 minutes), and has trouble even doing the simplest of offensive tasks (attempted 40 shots this year & committed 17 turnovers).

JoJo the Godfather

May 29th, 2011
12:48 pm



May 29th, 2011
12:59 pm

Ken S.,

I have to disagree with on C. Kaman of the L A Clippers. He can be had because of the emergence of D. Jordan. Crazy as may seem, the Clippers offered Gomes, Craig Smith, and a 2nd round pick for Marvin Williams at the trade deadline, but it was the Hawks who turned down the deal. Again, speaks to the ASG ineptness, Gomes is a servicable SF at 4 mil per season, C. Smith is an undersized PF but whose contract expiried at the end of the season, plus a 2nd round pick.
My point is that if the Clippers have expressed interest in Williams then now is the time for the Hawks to offer Marvin and ZaZa for Kaman. Sure his contract expires at the of next season 11.8 mil ,so Marvin and ZaZa contracts match. I would to keep Hinrich, but more than likely the Clippers will want to move Gomes. So the deal will end up being Gomes and Kaman (15.8 mil) for Marvin and Henrich (15.6 mil), hopefully Marvin finds his wings and the Hawks find their Center.

JoJo the Godfather

May 29th, 2011
1:05 pm

Horford has gotten better every year in the league. He still projects as a Carlos Boozer clone. Remember Boozer played some 5 early in his career as well. After 4 years in the league, Al is better in nearly every statistical category. Year 6 was when Boozer became a 20/10 guy. (Horford’s rebounding rate did drop but only on the offensive side where scheme was the reason. Horford dropped by .5 offensive rebounds per game and Josh dropped by 1.5 offensive rebounds per game. ZaZa & Marvin also saw smaller drops in their offensive rebounding rates.) There’s still plenty of upside to Teague, Josh & Al. Hinrich, Johnson, Williams & Pachulia are likely at or past their peaks, which is sad when you think about how young Marvin is.


May 29th, 2011
1:10 pm

Horford will never be a superstar, period. He can be most affective as a power forward with a decent center alongside him. As a center he will continue to be average at best.

He is a winner, maybe the only one on this team. Don’t hold it against him that the rest of the team is soft and (sans Hinrich), no one else wants to get their hands dirty.


May 29th, 2011
2:01 pm

This Q&A showed me that Sund and the ASG are content on being an average team if he’s comparing the Hawks to LAL and DAL…Please!?!?!?! ..Those teams are far more accomplished than ATL, in which LAL is just at a bump in the road where they have to make decisions and their GM will do ANYTHING to make that team better…DAL has made the personel changes also to make their team better and they to have a GM that will do ANYTHING to make his team better…I read a post where in the summer of 2009 where we dished out 20mil on Marvin, Bibby, Zaza, and let Chillz leave…Imagine if they had a mindset to even think about summer 2010!?!?! ..JJ and maybe a top notch sidekick??? Those bad contracts are the contracts that will haunt this team because no team wants Marvin and Zaza…Judging from Sunds comments ATLs “core” will be even better next season, I don’t know what team he is looking at but these guys have met their peak together and seem to tune each other out including the coach who is no better or worse than Woodson…What the Hawks need is for the ASG to NOT be their owners because these guys are clueless on how to run any kind of franchise, ie, the Thrashers too…I predict if a trade happens it will not be of equal value and ATL will be getting the short end of the stick…Peace…


May 29th, 2011
2:11 pm

They are sure if they want to seek a full time center? what since does that make? Look at all the other teams. This is why Atlanta continues to not support the HAWKS because dumb management. And this team was worse this year than last year. The only reason we handled Orlando is because Orlando made poor trades. There was nothing changed. Larry Drew sucks!! Get a new coach, get us a center, and get us a true leader with the killer instinct who can close out games. Joe Johnson is not a leader or a game closer, he is a second threat type of guy who is timid and gets nervous too much


May 29th, 2011
2:18 pm

Horford or Josh Smith for Varaejo and the #4 pick then move that pick along with next years 2nd round pick and 2012-13 1st round pick to the Twolves for #2 and select Derrick Williams.

Then put Varaejo, Hinrich, Williams, and Zaza all on the market. Any combination is available in a package that would bring you back. Bogut,Bynum, Javal McGee, Kaman, Marc Gasol or Nene.

Be creative for once Sund.

Joe Johnson is basketball illiterate?

May 29th, 2011
2:36 pm

what is a disappointment to you?

He’s a 7′3 double double threat given minutes. He’s a faster Jason Collins with more blocks. You don’t think that would have helped?
Montiejunas, who some of you seem to be in love with, is too young, light in the butt, and inexperienced to do what you and others are projecting for him.

” Horford, who some of you seem to be in love with, is too old, heavy in the butt, short armed without athleticism to make up for it and experienced to do what you and others are projecting for him which is make a quantum leap into Amare/Dirk status as a pivot man who can beat you off the dribble.”
He wants no part of trying to score over longer defenders in the post.

“He’s been judged and lauded for his OFF skills, which are considerable for a player his height, but he’s projected to be a PF,”
I projected him in the lineup as a PF. Euroleague is just like college not a lot of size so someone has to do the dirty work. Are you being disengenuous or did you actually think the goal was Thabeet to start and Motiejunas as a 5. Twin Towers Ken, twin towers
His scouting report projects him as a 4. His team produced Toni Kukoc, Barganani, and Garbajosa.

“Exactly what is the basis for projecting him to be an 8-9RPG player”
who ever said 9 rebounds? LMAO Dirk averages 7 this year! Tyson Chandler -9. Okafor 9.5.
all that was said that he is only one of 5 power forwards with 6′11 arms.
Zach Randolph, Troy Murphy, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love. That’s why they’re so fluid and on balance on offense. Similar proportions and limitations lead to similar offense.

PFs who rebound

LaMarcus Aldridge, 39 mpg, 8.8 rpg
Amare Stoudemire, 36.8 mpg, 8.2 rpg
Chris Bosh, 36.3 mpg, 8.3 rpg
David West, 35 mpg, 7.5 rpg
Dirk Nowitzki, 34.3, 7 rpg
Power forwards are not generally known for being better rebounders than you’re center.

“when his career rebounding average in the Euro League”
CAREER? he’s 20 years old and still 5-10 lbs from ideal weight how far are you going here? wow. really reaching here. PFs arent generally known for being great rebounders double doubles. And if they are they are probably limited offensively and not very fast or fluid (Al Horford)

Motiejunas is likely good for 7-8 rpg, like Dirk which is about 2 rebounds per quarter.
I honestly expect Smith at the 3 to average close to 9 rebounds and pass ahead or hit Motiejunas off the trailer for 3s and slashing. Horford can handle but Motiejunas has his strengths and weaknesses and Horford has his. overall Horford’s skillset is easily replaced via committee.
Josh+Thabeet+Motiejunas can score inside out and are low maintenance players who can create just like Chicago. Horford is just a brick who can score inside on occasion like Thabeet but wants to run the pick and pop more. Motiejunas+Josh+def.rebounder has more chemistry than Horford and any combination ever will.
Horford is nigh existent on offense.

“You obviously haven’t seen JJohnson play if you think he doesn’t play DEF.”
Joe Johnson had to defend JJ Redick and Keith Bogans. Big whoop and he gets up for defense on Kobe and Wade at times.
But you have tunnel vision if you think our version of Nellie-ball/Suns ball will be anymore successful with Joe and Hinrich on the wrong side of 30.
Basically every game we would be relying on Teague to exploit every mismatch and Josh Smith to erase all mistakes. 2 players to cover for the whole TEAM.

2 & 3
Wade and Lebron
Harden and Durant

Hinrich and Johnson really?
Put that regular season gimmick out to pasture.

“And what tape have you watched of Thabeet, and what should I be looking for. Hell, there probably isn’t any tape of him, considering his pitiful rebounding, shot blocking and scoring production for a player his size.”
minutes-per-game, true shooting %,
There it is: you want scoring from a center. You want a scoring center go after Greg Oden, Yao Ming or Andre Bynum.
per 36 minutes he averages 4 bpg.

Hornets win: 27:29 minutes; 4 offensive boards, 7 def. 11 total. Okafor 6 reb 7 pts.
Mavericks loss: 4/4 fga, 9 pts, 7 reb, 2 fouls in 30 minutes against Haywood and Dampier. 4 offensive rebounds.*Mike Conley 7 for 18, they lost by 26.

Thabeet started 13 games as a rookie and has never been the Shaquille O’Neal that everyone wants. First game of the season Marc Gasol starts and they lose to Pistons by 22.

Everyone wants scoring from the center position but Dwight Howard averages 20 ppg on a .500 team, Bynum averaged a career HIGH 14ppg and 6rpg in the playoffs and they lost.

DEFEND and REBOUND. Let JJ and Motiejunas post up and shoot 3s. The PG sets the table, Smith runs and slashes and crashes boards.
geez. If you dont get ppg you’re useless. Thabeet is a better version of Jason Collins in every way. Taller target in the paint, Faster Dunks, offensive rebounds, moves his feet quicker. Boxes Out larger area etc.

Thabeet is a bust sounds a lot like “You’re going to use Jason Collins to box out Howard and Noah, yeah right.”
and you probably dont know about Jordan Hill neither. He’s never played next to a real center only Chuck Hayes and Luis Scola. Shockingly similar measurements to Amare and yet solid defender at the speed 5 and fluid offensively at both the 4 and 5.
“What does Bynum average for his career? If Thabeet was drafted 10th and averages 11 and 7 in 24 minutes would you call him a bust?

Thabeet is a diamond in the rough that changes the matchup dynamics just like a 30 year old Jason Collins did and Collins will never be as good getting boards as Thabeet.
Horford will never develop a spin move to dunk a fade-away jump-shot in the post or a fluid pull up jump shot. His mechanics are wrong, his physical tools are all wrong.

But his mindset is right and that’s why we love him and give him 3 DPOY votes. A for effort lol. You cant shoot over Ryan Anderson, Carlos Boozer then you’re basically a midget with a very slow and low release.

“The Hawks also need players who realize scoring doesn’t have to mean shooting jump shots. This season they ranked last in the league in points scored at the basket and next to last in free-throw attempts.”

You think Horford failing at the 4 against Ryan Anderson and Bass and is a fluke?


May 29th, 2011
2:42 pm

anyone has a link for tonights game


May 29th, 2011
2:45 pm


Co-Sign @ 11:37 am -&- 1:10 pm !

Buddy Grizzard

May 29th, 2011
2:47 pm

7-CKamen-With BGriffin firmly entrenched at PF, why would they consider trading for JSmith?

Because they need a SF.

8-TChandler-As the starting center for a team in the finals, with a good chance to win it all, why would he want to go elsewhere, and why would Dallas let him go?

He’s an unrestricted free agent. Dallas can’t make him stay. Joe Johnson to Dallas in a sign-and-trade for Chandler.

Buddy Grizzard

May 29th, 2011
2:50 pm

By the way, I’m not advocating a trade with the Clippers. Chris Kaman is a career-ending-injury waiting to happen. He’s overweight, slow and has padded career stats playing on horrible teams that went nowhere. We’re much better off with Zaza as our starting center.

Buddy Grizzard

May 29th, 2011
2:56 pm

“what is a disappointment to you?”

A disappointment to me is a #2 overall pick that gets sent down to the dleague and can’t even get minutes there.


May 29th, 2011
3:27 pm

Sund thinks we’re almost there….what does that tell you about his outlook? Few, if any changes.
He will state that Jamal got a better offer and we couldnt commit to that amount. Okay, so we have a backcourt of Kirk and JJ, because you know Drew is going with the savvy vet who was injured. After all, he will say while JT filled the void, we lost that series. He will have plenty of excuses all set to go.
So Kirk/JJ/Josh at the 3 (ugh),Al/filler with JT/Zaza off the bench. Those IMO are the foundation we will go with.
The rest is up for grabs. So not improving that, not much to be excited about other than perhaps the amnesty clause to move Marvin off the cap restrictions. That might not be enough to give us more depth on the bench.

Varaejo, Hinrich, Williams, and Zaza

May 29th, 2011
3:28 pm


Varaejo, Hinrich, Williams, and Zaza. You really think the Lakers would downgrade at center for Marvin Williams contract?

Who is more committed to wins
low maintenance Motiejunas + Jordan Hill+ Travis Leslie +Thabeet + {a top 15 +/- guy in Josh Smith} who has been as good as Kobe Bryant (yes that Kobe Bryant has deficiencies too) and +/- of Andrew Bogut.

OR Derrick Williams: a high maintenance David West clone who is 20 yo and is happy losing in Cleveland as long as he gets as much attention as Lebron + the hope a 5 year-vet develops a post game even though he said in exit interviews he’s going to work on his jumper some more {Horford} and Varejao {an injured pf-masquerading as center} who never wants the ball in crunch time to overcome his mistakes at center.

top dynamic game changer (Josh Smith)
+ a 7′0 floor spacer (Donatas Motiejunas)
+ 7′3 Jason Collins with dunks, speed, blocks and twice the rebounding (Thabeet)
+ 6′10.25 PF/C; a bargain basement Amare PF/C (Jordan Hill) off the bench who was picked 6th and buried on the bench anyways in favor of vets and just wants to play; low-key blue collar attitude
+and Dwyane f****n Wade clone who is Gerald Henderson at worst off the bench and has Tony Allens defensive tools and is from U of Georgia.

or a slow bulky mechanical Horford and slow bulky mechanical Williams sharing floor space. wow.

You guys love your non-athletes. Just for laughs draft high maintenance Iman Shumpert with 48 so he can iso with Joe at the 1, not play any defense and kill the locker room.

trade Horford+Pape Sy for Houston’s picks and Thabeet+Hill+Motiejunas+Leslie. No one respects Atlanta when they sign guys like Magnum Rolle and
try to sell the idea that Teague + Hinrich backcourt is better than a Derrick Rose/John Wall + Hinrich backcourt.
Hinrich gets raped at the 2, not too mention Joe is a horrid rebounder.

We need an upgrade in the intangibles department. Horford is undersized at the 5 and slow at the 4.
When he shows he is more than a midget version of Brendan Haywood call me.
Until then to Houston for the chance at NOT being a mediocre rebounding and scoring team.

Jordan Hill, #14 Motiejunas, #23 Leslie, Hasheem Thabeet.
Last year Mike Bibby started 50 games over Jeff Teague. NBA loves mediocre defenders who can shoot but get locked down in the playoffs.
Blake Griffin get locked down at center? Troy Murphy? Randolph? Dirk?

Horford is not a baby. The development stage is over. His arms are right between David Lee and Amare. He plays like David Lee in high heels. He has had consistent minutes from the get go and the only area he can improve is 3 pt shots. I dont want someone shooting 3s if they cant pump fake Drive past somebody and shoot a pull up.

Horford is not a baby still figuring out the game hes grown up and has severe limitations at the PF spot and rebounding deficiencies at the 5.
Tough changes remember ?Trade him.

drmaryb (*_-)

May 29th, 2011
4:17 pm


Nephilim’s! LOL! Wow! I really learned a lot from that link!
Thanks – a – Mill! Too bad the Hawks can’t get one of them to man the paint!

Horford + Sy for Rockets picks Travis Leslie+Motiejunas + Thabeet & Hill

May 29th, 2011
4:27 pm

Crazy that both Marvin and Hinrich should be coming off the bench.

Josh Smith wont be the 3 for the simple fact that that “filler” will be Jason Collins so Zaza comes off the bench.
Smith will come back at 245 so we can hide AL Horford on defense. Anyone who thinks Horford is going to do anything but be a stiffer Boris Diaw is crazy.
Horford has shown and said nothing to demonstrate he is not a tweener. He cant guard 5s he cant guard or score on 4s.
If Ryan Anderson has the tools to take away your post game. What playoffs 4s can he actually score on? exactly, None,.

That’s why you listen/read his exit interview he’s going to work on jump shooting. His set jump shot is only thing he has going for him.

This dude is Kurt Rambis. Too bad there’s no kareems or Magics on this team. We got a James Worthy 3/4 type but we need to trade him because Al Horford thinks he’s a 4. Then he plays the 4 and says his range must improve lol.
With Josh Smith gone Hawks have no post presence. For all the BS he gets Smith posts up twice as much as 6′8 Lebron, Deng and 6′10 PF Lewis.

lol Marc Gasol has no defense. Knicks dont want his sh*t. He cant start no fast breaks but I guess it wouldn’t matter since our best athlete would be Jeff Teague lol.
Hinrich+Teague+Johnson+Horford+Marc Gasol
mmm 1st round exit. sexy. Turkoglu goes for 30 points on switches onto Teague lol. No ability to switch or play defense. lol
Marc Gasol. Horford needs to be traded for restructuring the frontcourt versatility and rebounding.

And Travis Leslie. a Tony Allen Type at worst. But we’re not looking for an 18mpg guy who can come in and guard Duramt we want to see Joe and Kirk try to outshoot those guys.

Its more relateable seeing a shooting contest than inside domination. When I go to the park no one posts up so thats how the Hawks should play!
Horford is great but he is not better than Motiejunas+Hill at the 4 or Thabeet at the 5. Joakim effin Noah locked Al up. Taj Gibson. Carlos frickin Boozer.
if Hawks miss out on Hill+Leslie+Thabeet+Motiejunas
Horford has effectively gone from help to handicap. We cannot afford Marvin or Joe as the 3 anymore. Josh loses 10 lbs and he is a top 10 sf, just like 2009-2010.
Bet you guys did not know Smith was behind only Carmelo, Durant, and Lebron in efficiency the past 2 years. This year he fell behind Pierce.

ahead of Gay, Marion, Granger, Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace, Thaddeus Young. You guys want to build behind your 2nd best player at best. Why? Because he got an All Star nod at center. Who cares if he gets shut down in the playoffs.
Thabeet can’t get minutes he must suck! start Hinrich his efficiency doesnt matter it doesnt reflect how we feel about him. YAY for ATL another year of earthbound suckiness.

P.S. I hope Smith is traded for Kaman so he can play that Shawn Marion role and Horford misses the all-star game lol.

Garnett, Stoudemire, Anthony, Pierce, Lebron, Deng. PF backup at best.
heck once Lopez and Bogut get a PF Horford wont even be an “All Star” center lol.


May 29th, 2011
4:27 pm

Call me clueless I guess, but I’ve read a couple of things here that make little sense:

- trading to put yourself in position for Derrick Williams…really? Do we really need another PF who has said he wants to play the 3? Heads up: we have rebounding/shot blocking/getting to the FT line needs. 2 words: practice Josh!
- Josh is anything but a perimeter player. He is more Elton Brand than Lamar Odom. He needs to get back around the basket. It simple really but the problem is what to do with all-star Al? He is not a fit with Josh. I would rather see Zaza starting and we may move him into the starters role this year. Collins’ minutes were less than Powell and Damien? That tells you that Collins has very limited use for us going forward and should be replaceable.

To me, it’s either get in the draft lottery with a trade and free us some cap room, or make a much needed decision on Al vs. Josh. We aren’t going to be able to add a big component retaining our 3 captains. So with that in mind, other than Dallas, Miami and OKC, we might be the least active in major moves because we cheaply have to fill a roster.
Sund and the ASG sure have left few options out there for us. They truly don’t have a blockbuster move in their peabrain approach to developing a championship team.
Sure they spend money, to a limit, but they haphazardly spend money.
If they get an exception for Marvin, I feel that’s the best we can ask for as far as major moves. An incompetent front office that rivals the Clippers is anything but proactive.

- Sund getting more than one major move accomplished this offseason? Odds are not good in that regard. He is simple, likes what we have, and


May 29th, 2011
4:33 pm

Here’s a thought….lets just get rid of Rick Sund and bring in a REAL general manager! Al is not a center, doesnt want to play center…and Sund doesnt want to bring in one? This guy is a idiot! FIRE RICK chants next season at the highlight factory!

Horford + Sy for Rockets picks Travis Leslie+Motiejunas + Thabeet & Hill

May 29th, 2011
4:37 pm

as far as winning in an increasingly center-deprived league goes Al Horford has more beneficial returns than Smith. we woudnt trade Horford for Deron Williams. Knicks were swept. That shows how much size/rebounding matters.
Scoring comes and goes against different defenses. Horford as much as admitted he cant operate in the post. Expand his range and work on putting the ball on the ground lol.

He so athletic he twisted his ankle in the Heat game trying to do that. Not Dirk not Z-Bo not Stoudemire. He’s a brick.
No post game so What does Horford do when his jumper goes? nothing. Even at 245 when similar players play 236, Smith blocks shots makes the assist and actually can create in the post against top SFs and some PFs.
Horford cannot create anything against elite PFs and Cs. Not even elite, hes been shut down by role players.


May 29th, 2011
4:40 pm

The more I think about Marvin and his decline, he more I think about that guy on Seinfeld who depended on George to get a birthday card for Steinbrenner to him. The card ends up getting framed without the guy’s signature and the guy says, “Well Constanza, you screwed me again!”
Reminds me of how so many hope for anything good to come out of Marvin, in any situation.

Living on false hope and impossibility.


May 29th, 2011
4:49 pm

And I always thought that Al was going to be this team’s Tim Duncan? In the playoffs, he plays more like Elle Duncan.


May 29th, 2011
4:51 pm

Question: Do you think the core has peaked?
Sund: No.

Ugh……..very depressing.


May 29th, 2011
5:23 pm

Crazy trade idea, Joe,Kirk, and Al for Pau and Bynum.


May 29th, 2011
5:26 pm

If we buy a second rounder, which is very likely, I’d look at Greg Smith, Keith Benson (meh) or Willie Reed. Greg Smith is the kind of big body that we sorely lack on the roster and he has motor and desire. Keith Benson is a finesse guy but he’d space the floor .and for such a wiry frame, he blocks shots and rebounds. Willie Reed is an athletic guy; raw but big on potential and tools. And if by chance we do reach for a guard in the second round, I’d take a hard look at Norris Cole, Iman Shumpert or Deandre Liggins. Norris is a small school guy but he tested well at the combine Think a better shooting, yet not quite as fast with the ball version of Mike Conley Jr. Shumpert is an improving shooter and decisionmaker. He is a big and athletic combo guard that at the least could be a stopper off the bench. He’s athletic as heck and confident, he’d fit well alongside Kirk or Teague. Liggins is a bit of an enigma. He is versatile enough to play the one, two or three. He is a capable, long range shooter and athlete. He was often overshadowed by the presence of the other Kentucky big names but projects to be a good utility guy. There are some red flags but none surround his play; he is solid if not spectacular.


May 29th, 2011
5:38 pm

Derrick Williams is a superstar you always make a move to get one of the few if you can and he is a SF. He wants to play SF and Al wants to play PF. Quit trying to make people into things they aren’t, take there word and let them live up to there own standards. You will find that most self-respecting people have higher standards for themselves than you do.