Atlanta Hawks: Rick Sund Q & A
Finally caught up with Rick Sund today. Here’s the transcript of the interview. . . .
Q. I haven’t talked to you since the end of the regular season. You did better in the playoffs but you did worst during the regular season . . .
I pretty much predicted that. I did a radio show and they brought that up that you pretty much said the team wouldn’t be as good during the regular season but better in the playoffs and that’s pretty much what we were.
Q. But do you look at regular season, where you had some blowout home losses and the offense and defense regressed and . . . .
I think other than–Oklahoma City and Chicago were the only two teams that didn’t have a lot of highs and lows during the season. Certainly LA did and Dallas did and Miami did. Your [media] colleagues had Spoelstra fired three times. So it’s been up and down and we fell right into that. We’ve been up and down. I’d like to think that helped us. I’m hoping that was one reason we were stoic during the playoffs.
Q. Do you think this core group has peaked?
No.
Q. How can it be better?
In some ways it might be a little bit like Dallas, although we were younger than Dallas. Dallas went three straight years with disappointing playoffs and eliminated in the first round and I think that prompted Cuban the other day to grab the mic and say, ‘For all you people that didn’t believe in us . . . ‘ Because they kept their core group together including Kidd and Nowitzki and Marion and they got criticized for that quite a bit. And they got beat pretty much embarrassingly, by their standards, in the last three years. I think we have learned along the way. We will look at the possibility of making our team better. We do every year. We’ve made two major trades the last two years and we will continue to look and see if there is something that makes us better.
Q. You look at Dallas, they did make a trade that helped them so . . .
Yeah, well, you asked me about the core group and that’s what I’m responding to. The core group of our players have, I think, improved every single year. I’ve had that question every year, even the year I got here: Can this core group get even better? And they have, I think, in terms of ultimately the playoffs.
Q. So you are not inclined to break it up?
I didn’t say that. I said we will continue to look. Your question was, ‘Can this core be competitive again?’ I think we were pretty competitive in the playoffs. I think we can continue to do it but I think we will look, like we do every year, to see if we can do something to make our club better.
Q. Maybe that was the wrong question, then. Do you think this group is good enough to reach your goals?
Hopefully. Hopefully.
Q. The CBA is up in the air. As it looks now you don’t have a lot of flexibility so how can you improve the team considering those constraints?
I can’t even answer that until we know what the rules are.
Q. Are you hoping to end up with more flexibility in the new CBA?
We can’t even comment on the CBA and I won’t. I think, for good reason, we have one voice, that’s David Stern. Until we get what the new collective bargaining is, it’s very, very hard to assess.
Q. Listening to Al and his comments, it’s clear he prefers to play the four and thinks he’s more effective there. Would you look to get a full-time center to accommodate him?
I don’t know. So many of the players that are really, really good, and Al is one of those, they have the ability to play dual positions. I think he’s established himself he can play five; he’s established he can play four. That’s a good combo for us.
Q. You are just back from Chicago and Minneapolis. You don’t have the No. 18 pick that you traded, but you do have the second-round pick. Any hope of getting help from the draft?
We look at the last 10 years who has been drafted between 45 and 50, because that’s kind of a grouping. It’s too early. The Chicago combine is over, the group workout in Minnesota is over. We have got some group workouts we are doing here in June and you are always hoping you can get someone who has an upside of some sort. It’s difficult to find someone to come in and find someone who can play right away. When you have a good team, it’s difficult to get someone who is drafted [even] in the first round to come in and play right away.
Q. You said after last year you are of the mind that you don’t need an MVP candidate to be a championship contender but when you look at it historically, almost every single champion has had that first team All-NBA guy so how . . .
It is going to be very hard for us to get that MVP candidate unless you pick one or two [in the draft]. And we are not picking one or two. Or unless you happen to have–a few years back when they had free-agent money, to get one in free agency. It’s going to be tough, so we are going to have to do it the hard way. We are going to have to do it similar to what Detroit did in their day, when they had the Eastern Conference finals five straight times, went to Finals and one won, where it is a collective effort. Unless we get an MVP or unless someone emerges as that kind of guy.
Q. Do you have that kind of guy?
I don’t think we have an MVP candidate.
Q. What I mean is, do you have that guy on your team who can emerge into that kind of player?
Time will tell on that. It depends on what happens in the next year or any kind of player transaction or in the future. But basically we have pretty much built it around get as much talent as we possibly can, blend it around and have a team effort. Now we’ve got two players on this roster who have made All-Pro, we have got two players made All-Star and another one knocking on the door. We’ve got a player in Hinrich who has been kind of that gritty, tough complimentary player and has made All-Defense. So it is going to have to be a collective effort.
Q. How is Teague’s health?
He is coming along fine. No surgeries.
Q. After what Teague did against Chicago, do you feel good about point guard with him and Hinrich?
I felt good about it before Chicago with Hinrich and Jeff. He should be a senior in college, graduating this year. He’s just a young guy. He’s always had some real great physical tools. He just had an opportunity where he got an opportunity for consecutive playing time and he responded well. And that’s what you have to do in this league, when your opportunity comes, take advantage of it. And to his credit, I think most of the time he has had an opportunity. . . . . Even a year ago, when we said, ‘We are going to let you play, don’t worry about it win lose or draw,’ and he had a nice game against Cleveland. This year against Boston and it was a situation where Jamal missed four or five games, Joe didn’t play, and Jeff played real good in that game. We did the trade where Mike left and he got significant minutes and in that time. To his credit he has done a really good job for a young player and only getting spot play, role playing, that when he got an opportunity to get consistent minutes he responded pretty well.
Q. Do you see that continuing going forward as far as him getting consistent minutes?
I think so. For him, it was a real confidence booster. Because it’s hard when you are a role player and waiting for your opportunity and your turn as a young player, you need to take advantage of that. And he did and that’s good for him and good for us.
Q. When there was trade speculation last fall about Josh, you talked to him and reassured him. Now that there is more speculation, and he seemed frustrated with a lot of the criticism he got during the playoffs, do you talk to him again?
No, I’ve talked to him a number of times—collectively, our team—and the age of the Internet, bloggers make trades and then media feel compelled to write, and don’t worry about that. If an opportunity presents itself to improve our club, they know we would do it. Bibby got traded, Mo got traded, we traded for Jamal, we traded our draft pick—they know we will pull the trigger. But one thing I’m not into is addition by subtraction or shopping one guy or two guys. We are looking to see what makes us better as we go forward.
Q. But I think the difference this time with Josh is the frustration is coming from him as far as saying ‘I’m taking too much of the heat.’
He hasn’t expressed that to me.
Q. Is there any chance Pape Sy will be in the plans next season?
Too early to tell. He’s under contract so he will be here unless he is involved in a trade or something. We will go forward to see how his improvement is. He didn’t get a chance for much playing time, although with Chicago I think it was good that he was on the roster because with Hinrich being hurt and a few games at the end he got to get out there and play a little bit. But he’s a a young player, too.
Q. Larry was in his first year as a head coach. How did he do?
I make comparisons to Larry with Nate McMillan. I was with Nate his first full-time year, first training camp. One time I had a kind of a real nice talk with Nate, I said, ‘You will be better in year two than you were in year one, you will be better in year three than year two, you will be better in year four than year three. Because even tough you were an assistant coach and you were a player it’s completely different position when you move over 25 inches.’ I think Larry got better. I think he was very good in the playoffs. I think his confidence level and his belief in the players and the players’ belief in him improved and that’s just the maturation process that coaches go through.
Q. Why was the team so much worse at home this season?
I don’t know. I didn’t think we would get 34 wins again at home. I felt one thing is for sure, we are a more comfortable team on the road today than the year before.
Q. I only keep bringing up the blowout home losses because you don’t usually see that with winning teams.
Every team has clunkers. We had more than you normally do. The big thing is, Can you bounce back from the clunkers? Do the clunkers affect you going into the playoffs? And they didn’t. Our team seemed to show some resiliency to those. Hopefully you don’t have them again. But we had more than you would expect.
Q. Who do you see as the teams you are chasing? Obviously there is Miami now, is it still Boston, Chicago . . .
We said last year before the season started, we wanted to keep the teams behind us, behind us and make strides in front of us. And Cleveland became Miami with LeBron. I think we made strides on Orlando and we didn’t keep Chicago behind us, they leapfrogged everybody. We did keep everybody else behind us. Again, we need to do that. It’s the same goal as Orlando, Miami, Boston. I think it is pretty much going to be the same. The league gets better. There is no question the Eastern Conference was better this year. That’s another reason I didn’t think our record would be as good but by the time the playoffs came around I thought we would be better.
Q. Larry’s offense didn’t go the way he planned as far as getting team to play that style all the time. Do you still think this . . .
I don’t know. You have got to ask that question to Larry.
Q. Joe got the contract and he had his worst year since he’s been here. He’s getting older, he had the injury, so are you concerned . . .
Well, I don’t worry about the old. When I am seeing Jason Kidd and Nowitzki and the Wades and all these people in their 30s, that doesn’t bother me. Joe has got a durable, strong . . . and he did have a lot of injuries and he had an elbow situation and pre- and post-surgery he is such a tough guy he played with that. Not really [concerned]. I was really happy with Joe’s playoffs. I thought he played really well, particuarly the games that we won, he stepped up big time, particularly in the fourth quarter. I think that’s part of the experience, being into it and the pressure. There are only three teams that have made it to the conference semifinals three consecutive years: L.A., Boston and us. Two of those teams have won the championship. Another thing with Joe, if it is correct I didn’t verify it, Joe has been to the second round a number of times and three with the Hawks. Carmelo Anthony, who was probably one of the most sought after players during the trade deal, he’s only made it to the second round once. [Note: That's correct.] Chris Paul has only made it to the second round once. Deron Williams has only made it to the second round once. All the years Kevin Garnett was with [Minnesota], he only made it once. Joe has made it three times. So he’s done a pretty good job of being the best player on your club in terms of getting there. Now his challenge and opportunity is getting to that next round. I think he gave a pretty good effort in the Chicago series.
Q. During the playoffs Joe expressed frustration with whether it was best share the ball or for him to try to do more. It seems like he never really . . .
I don’t know. That’s between him and Larrry. But from my perspective I thought he did a pretty good job. When the game was on the line, those close games. . . . You take any team. Oklahoma City. Some games Durant was really good in the fourth quarter, some games it was Westbrook; other games [Durant] was terrible in the fourth quarter. Take Miami. There were people that were criticizing Bosh in the first round. Somebody has got to do it. Most of the time, a lot of the time, it’s your best player. Other times it’s not. When Boozer did it for Chicago they were really good in those games. I try not to get too high on the highs or too low on the lows. The playoffs can really cause that. The highs and the lows of the playoffs are unbelievable from a fan and media perspective. Miami loses to Chicago in a fashion where Chicago pretty much dominated and dictated that game, and everyone wrote Miami off and said that’s it. There is no way that Miami is good enough, blah, blah, blah, blah. Dallas wins the first game, loses the second game, and [they said] ‘There is no way Dallas is going to be able to go into Oklahoma City as loud as that is and the enthusiasm.’ You don’t get too high on it. It’s a progress or it’s a leapfrog. Chicago leapfrogged. Ours is more of a progression and I think Joe did a pretty good job.
Q. When you say ‘progression’ it sounds like you think you are close to breaking through to that next level?
I thought we were pretty close this year, yeah. I really do. I think a good thing is, last year they were embarrassed in the second round. They didn’t play very good. Orlando manhandled them and they didn’t handle it very well. So they were disappointed by the embarrassment. This year they were disappointed that the opportunity was there, they were close, and they didn’t get there. There’s a big difference in the two. Big difference. I think that’s a progression. I heard Nowitzki say that the other day, ‘Hey we weren’t very happy with the last three years.’ They were concerned because they lost their last nine games to playoff teams in the Western Conference. Then they played New Orleans the last game of the season, it was meaningless, and they won. It’s all, What is your mindset? How does it go in the first playoff game, how does your momentum go? For us, they were focused in the Orlando series. They were focused in the Chicago series; Chicago beat them. But they were focused. It wasn’t a situation of them not competing or giving up. I think they thought it was going to be easier last year in the Orlando series and it wasn’t.
Q. What does the team need, in your opinion?
They need to continue to get the maturity. They need to continue to become the physical team they were in the playoffs. I think they need to deal better with the 82 games when adversity comes. This was a strange year because the whole league was like that with the exception of those two teams [Chicago and Oklahoma City]. Erik Spoelstra was fired three times by the media. You had a situation where the Lakers, three or four games before the All-Star game, ‘They’ve got to break it up. They’ve got to make a trade.’ And then they came out of the All-Star break and they win 17 of 18 games. You’ve got a situation in Dallas where Nowitzki gets hurt they lose six or seven in a row, he comes back they lose two or three more. Nobody picked Dallas. I’ve never seen a season—and maybe it’s because the league has gotten better—that was so up and down and all over the board with the playoff clubs. I think we as a team, to answer your question, we have got to stay more focused during the 82 games. We haven’t proved we are championship-caliber. We knocked on the door; we want to get there. Sometimes you will see really good championship teams coast through the year and say, ‘We are waiting for the second season.’ We can’t do that, even though we are one of the teams that the last three years made it to the second round. I think we have got to focus on that a little more during the season. I think that’s got to be one of our priorities because it helps with with positioning. I think we got a little lax on that because we have gone three straight years. Certainly we got lax at it when we got locked up the last couple weeks. Some of that, though, may have helped us because it got Teague more minutes.
Q. Those are mostly intangibles you are talking about. From a personnel standpoint, what do you think the team needs?
I don’t know. We are still in the process of evaluating that.
Q. Are you talking to Jamal about a contract extension?
I’m not going to discuss contract stuff. Jamal knows that we want to do everything in our power to bring him back but we don’t know what the [CBA] rules are yet.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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445 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
May 28th, 2011
11:29 am
it was not a bad pick,
The problem with Marvin is not that he only averaged 10 and 5 the last 2 years. The problem (imo) is:
1) he goes through stretches where you dont even realize he is on the court.
2) As a 6′9″, 240lb SF, he gets guarded by smaller players very often, and he is unable to take advantage of the matchup
3) When guys get doubled (especialy JJ), Marvin has been the recipient of open looks, and he cant knock down the shot down consistently despite his very good stroke.
4) he is a 31% career shooter from 3 (despite all the open looks)
5) he will give you 15 points one game, and then 5 the next.
Bruce Bowen is 6′7″, 200 lbs SF, with career averages of 6 pts and 3 rebs. But he played excellent defense for the Spurs, and could be counted to knock down that corner 3 at big moments.
Shane Battier is 6′8″, 220, with a career average of 10 and 5. but he plays excellent defense, and can be counted on to do the intangibles that helps a team to win ball games.
What is Marvin known for? He is a solid defender at his position, but that’s it.
Reddjonn68
May 28th, 2011
12:19 pm
@Slimjr
Sorry AL, I have to agree with you slim AL is not a great fit at the 4 spot, he seems like another Boozer in big games! He has great grit & fight but his offense must improve in big games…maybe developing a nice jump-hook or turn around jumper down low would solve this.
As for Marvin Williams, this kid has been the perfect citizen since coming into the league, unfortunately as physically gifted as he is his athleticism has not caught up with his body. He plays like a kid in middle school who grew 6 inches & has yet to get control over his new height!
Reddjonn68
May 28th, 2011
12:36 pm
This interview gives us fans an inside look at what this idiot Sund is telling ownership in their closed door meetings…..talk about a used car salesman! LMAO
Ken Strickland
May 28th, 2011
12:38 pm
Man, there’s some serious venting, blaming and buck passing going on here. What in the devil did you expect from Sund? In addition to his other duties, he’s also responsible for PR. You can’t expect him to reveal every detail of what he and the ASG are planning or thinking just because Hawk fans, especially those suedo arm chair fan experts, want more info.
Hell, most of you won’t admit that you’ve made mistakes or that you were mistaken about something, particularly on these blogs. So why in the devil would you expect him to bad mouth the team and play the blame gm, like so many of you do. He’d be foolish to admit that the approach he’s pursuing, and will continue to pursue, isn’t working.
He was correct when he said our core can improve. We all know Josh, Marvin, Horford, Teague and Pape Sy can improve, and while JJ has peaked, he can certainly improve on his consistency and overall production. Sund is dealing with the same financial handicaps, restraints and ownership meddling that plagued former GM BKnight and forced him into resigning.
Why would anyone be dumb enough to expect him to:
1-bad mouth or give his plans regarding a lame duck HC,
2-say he’s disappointed about a team that did so well in the playoffs,
3-talk about his ideas about trading or acquiring certain players.
4-talk openly about what his team needs, and set himself up to be villified if he fails to adequately fill those needs,
5-reveal his and the teams overall intentions to the world for the upcoming season and put him at a negotiating disadvantage.
What I got from the interview was he is comfortable with returning the core intact. That he knows the biggest improvement can and likely will come internally from the emergence of JTeague, the presence of KHinrich, and the(hopefully)maturity and development of JSmith. However, if a trade offer came along that blew him away and would definitely improve the team, he wouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger.
I also think he refused to give any info on player situations because, to a large extent, it will be LDrews call as far as which players will be resigned, traded, or let go. He and the ASG certainly accomodated then lame duck HC MWoodson’s desire to have MWilliams, ZPachulia, JSmith and MBibby resigned. They ever likelihood he’ll do the same for Drew, under the same circumstances.
brigadierjerry
May 28th, 2011
12:39 pm
If the Hawks as it seems to Rick Sund going to be cheap might as well get a bunch of second round picks and pick someone who hopefully makes the team and sticks since the contracts for 2nd round picks are not guaranteed and get some players for the vet minimum You never know hopefully one of them turns out to be decent. Normally not the case but look at Landry Fields of the Knicks Sam Young Dejuan Blair Jodie Meeks, AJ. Price.
To It was not a bad pick:
I see what you are saying with Marvin but you think if JJ still on the team and possibly Jamal back you think Marvin is going to have a good year? Problem with Marvin is that he was the 2nd pick and people expect more from a second pick. He shouldnt have been picked as a 2nd pick. If he was picked 15th you wouldnt hear anyone complain about him. Do I think Marvin is a scrub?No He is at best a third or 4th option on a championship type team. I agree he doenst jack up a lot of shots which is true and I like that about him but he is at best a third option on offense which isnt a problem. Problem is people have high expectations of him being the 2nd pick.
I know you stated Chris Paul hasnt been to the conference finals which is true but to be honest knowing what you know now about Marvin if you had to do it all over again would you still take Marvin over paul, williams or felton?
K-Dogg
May 28th, 2011
12:42 pm
Ok Sund from a media standpoint and sellig his self and his work seems to be bright but if he thinks most of this stuff is true he is dumb as he**!!! The main problem i had with a question is the one about us peeking and him comparing us to otehr teams that had higs and lows during the season. 1 we not only have peeked and so have our players but we dont match up with the better teams and the only way you pass them or leapfrog them like the Chi did this year is to make moves to do that unless players games get better. Let me ask Sund this if i were doing this interview: “Rick over the past 3 years your main core players Joe, Josh, Al even Crawford in your eyes how have they got better or have they; What in their game have you seen that they have been working on translate on the floor??? Has Al got stronger in the post and wored on going left. Has Josh got better wiht his decision making and either decide to improve his jumper or stick to posting up with his jump shot not getting any where; Have Joe and Jamal your two best scorers become more consistent in giving you that each night???? NO, NO, NO, NO to all of them so they have peeked and now you have to get better by trades and if you know what your doing on that it will be adding by subtracting. I still cant beleive they gave up a younger cheaper Crawford and are going to lose the older more expensive one for notihng… Dont compare us to the Lakers, Mavs, C’s b/c one those teams are championship teams with older guys so they will have lows b/c they take nights off but they still dont quit our team is younger and take nights off by quitting so fans pay money to see guys quit.. Last but not least he did bring up a good point with us being one of 3 teams that has made it to the 2nd round in 3 years so RICK use that as a sense of urgency not as a sense to sit back and relax that means you have something here so take advantage of it if not lik i have been saying for the last 3 years we will be a 50 win team for 10 years with nothign to show for it if your ok with that and not winning a title then we are all looking at it wrong and your right and the meida and fans are not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Truth
May 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
“Q. Do you think this core group has peaked?
No.
Q. How can it be better?
In some ways it might be a little bit like Dallas, although we were younger than Dallas. Dallas went three straight years with disappointing playoffs and eliminated in the first round and I think that prompted Cuban the other day to grab the mic and say, ‘For all you people that didn’t believe in us . . . ‘ Because they kept their core group together including Kidd and Nowitzki and Marion and they got criticized for that quite a bit. And they got beat pretty much embarrassingly, by their standards, in the last three year”
The bigger question to ask Sund is: What is his definition of a “Core Group” since he seem to overly abuse the words each time he attempts to justify his actions or inactions in managing the team. We are getting constant rhetoric (or hot air) from him comparing the Hawks to successful NBA Teams to advance the perception that he has a plan. In Hawksville, WE KNOW MANURE WHEN WE SMELL IT. First he compared the Hawks to Detroit now it’s Dallas. If OKC had beaten Dallas, he probably would have conveniently compared the Hawks to OKC. Actually his Detroit model comparison sounded weak since the Hawks who really don’t have a super-star to the title winning Piston who had (in retrospect) two HOF in “Zeke” and nominee Rodman.
Sund is stretching his argument of “keeping the core group together” to include Dallas. Frankly, his argument, now, has gotten even weaker. If “core group” to Sund means tenure, then the only core players Dallas have are Dirk and Jason Terry since they have the longest tenure. Otherwise Dallas roster looks rather transient. If “core group” to Sund means starters, then other than Dirk, Dallas lineup has been a revolving door over the years as well. It’s apparent from this that the Hawks team model is just the opposite of Dallas, so more BS from Sund.
Sund also said this: “We’ve made two major trades the last two years and we will continue to look and see if there is something that makes us better”
The problem is these back-court trades involving Jamal and Hinrich has accounted for nearly 40 million dollars of the Hawk’s budget when the most pressing need has been a front-court upgrade. Our opponents love Sund’s “rose color glasses” because they can continue to have block parties in the paint at Phillips at the fans expense.
No wonder Josh is frustrated since he alone carries the burden of stopping dribble penetration while AL debates with himself whether or not he’s a center or PF.
Reddjonn68
May 28th, 2011
1:07 pm
Ken Strickland
Many teams set blueprints for their future yet demand accountability, the Hawks are not that type of team. Blank & Dimitroff are stabilizing the Falcons for the future, the jury is still out on Wren after replacing Shuerholtz…he has made some questionable deals as well. We all know the Thrashers are outta here, my point is we the fans are settling for mediocre teams as well. Blogging & venting only lets off the steam that is built up after rooting for & hoping to see your team leap that upper 1st tier hurdle. Thats why so many fans can sympathize with the Cleveland franchises. We hear enough out of politicians everyday, that is why these delusional responses in Sund’s interview seems like this organization is in a state of denial !!!!!
O'Brien
May 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
Najeh,
As a GT fan, I’ve seen some of Shumpert’s games. He will not wow you on offense, but he can do a little bit of everthing (play defense, rebound, and pass). Dude had a triple double against VA Tech (22 pts, 12 rebs, 11 assists), and shut down one of the ACC’s top scorers (he also shut down OK State’s big game James Anderson in the NCAA tournament).
Mario West gave all he had on defense, and played with energy, but that was all he could do. I think Shumpert is a better defender than Mario, and a better passer, with more long term potential.
If he is there at #48, he is one of the players I would consider.
tremaine
May 28th, 2011
1:22 pm
I thought Sund contract was up?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
“Actually his Detroit model comparison sounded weak since the Hawks who really don’t have a super-star to the title winning Piston who had (in retrospect) two HOF in “Zeke” and nominee Rodman. ”
To be fair he was comparing the Hawks to the ‘04 Pistons who had Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, etc. But still, it’s a pretty weak comparison.
sam'l
May 28th, 2011
1:29 pm
I thought the questions were really really good….but somehow the answers never really answered anything.
The fans look at the Hawks and see an opportunity lost to become champs or at least finalists. Sund and Gearon express happiness at competing. Surely THEY THEMSELVES see the opporunity lost but since it’s a (real estate type) investment and their bread and butter, they put on this bland, business-like public relations screen.
Sund should work for the Wild Blue complaint department.
Buddy Grizzard
May 28th, 2011
2:10 pm
“I thought Sund contract was up?” – tremaine
Nope they decided to beat that Old Horse for one more year… not dead yet.
Gerald Wallace for Pryzbilla
May 28th, 2011
2:31 pm
wow. Josh Smith will be Lebron’s backup at the 3 in 2 years. Hawks screwed the,selves when they resigned Marvin. Small ball teams:
Phoenix, Golden State, Philadelphia, Atlanta Hawks
Dallas has 7′3 wingspan of Tyson Chandler at the 5, and Dirk Nowitzki and Marion at the 3 to defend and post up the Lebron’s and Durants.
LA has Bynum and Gasol and Artest at the 3 to match up with the Pierce’s and Carmelo Anthony’s.
Atlanta has Jason Collins. Atlanta has Marvin Williams. Atlanta has Al Horford.
Atlanta has Josh Smith at the 4 to defend and play 4 out 1 in.
Phoenix had Shawn Marion at the 4 and play 5 out 1 in.
The only 4s Al Horford has ever shown up are Zach Randolph and David Lee.
Never scores in isos versus Garnett, nor Nowitzki etc
@MC u should have asked him what the chances Marvin can guard 3s as good as a Hulked-out Josh Smith lol.
Think Marvin can be traded for Tyson Chandler smh. Robin Lopez could be had for $3 mil.
cp
May 28th, 2011
2:34 pm
Its hard being a fan of this team. I doubt any improvements will be made.
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
2:41 pm
Buddy Grizzard
NBAdraft.net for some reason has omitted Shumpert.
However, DraftEXpress has him going high 2nd,
while HoopsWorld has him going # 18 in the 1st round.
I can’t possibly see him lasting until 48.
NBAdraft.net must have had a glitch or somethin’,
no way he doesn’t get drafted.
Highway robbery at 48
Goudelock (a Stone Mtn. lad) or Isaiah Thomas
at 48 will be terrific !
The Truth
May 28th, 2011
2:42 pm
“To be fair he was comparing the Hawks to the ‘04 Pistons who had Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, etc. But still, it’s a pretty weak comparison”
Najeh
Thanks for that correction as I misunderstood his Detroit model. But still, when Sund compares the Hawks to Detroit, he overestimates the Hawks heart and underestimates their chemistry. Each player on the 04′ Detroit team knew their role, filled a void and had the heart of champion.
Can we really say that about these Hawks? As previously mention, Al is debating with himself as to whether or not he’s a center or PF. Josh aspires to play point forward and defiantly shoot a high volume of perimeter jumpers while his best work is done in the paint. Ball hog JJ and Jamal styles seem to conflict with Drew’s coaching desires of ball sharing. Marvin is still searching for a ball basketball identity. And Sund calls this team a Detroit 04′ model? Really; again, his rhetoric has the aroma of MANURE IMO.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
This is pretty creative on the part of the Cavs if it pans out. And scary for the rest of the conference if the Bulls can actually get Rip Hamilton for nothing.
Buddy Grizzard
May 28th, 2011
2:56 pm
Grandad I knew he was on some boards… Hoopshype has talked about how he’s helped his stock in workouts.
O'Brien
May 28th, 2011
3:11 pm
The Truth,
Also, the Detroit ‘04 team played for a Hall of Fame Coach in Larry Brown. Does Sund really expect LD (Woody’s 6 year assistant) to be the guy to get these players to do their job?
And does Sund really expect LD, a first time HC to be able to strategize to beat other teams? I give LD credit for playing Collins against Dwight, but thats it.
O'Brien
May 28th, 2011
3:12 pm
Najeh,
It would be nice to see some creativity out of our front office. But Rick likes to play it safe, and go with status quo.
Ken Strickland
May 28th, 2011
3:14 pm
REDDJONN68-You can’t compare the Hawks and their hierarchy to that of the Falcons. Falcons owner ABlank has turned the entire operational and decision making responsibility over to his GM, and he has enough cash to make things happen. The Hawks ownership, as we saw with BKnight, limits what they allow their GM’s to do. They also seem to have an owner or 2 who wants to function in a dual capacity as part a time GM.
Look, you can all continue whining, crying, bitching, moaning, and playing the blame gm all you want, complete with name calling, but it won’t change a doggone thing. And getting yourselves all worked up over not knowing or being told what you want to hear, or not hearing about a certain player(s) you want brought in or sent packing, is an even bigger waste of time and effort.
But, if you are somehow delusional enough, or maybe dumb enough, to think this approach will yield some satisfactory results, then continue to have at it. Right now, I don’t see anything happening until a new CBA is in place. Until then, there’s no way management will know who’s tradeable or available. This is even more important for the Hawks, who definitely have financial constraints, than a lot of clubs.
Stop allowing your anger, frustration, or personal issues dictate how you view certain players, the team, and what both can accomplish. If this core is brought back, which is most likely, why not wait and see what LDrew and the team can do with a yr of experience under their belts? If the team and HC don’t show a marked improvement, then it will be time to make drastic changes.
dap01
May 28th, 2011
3:25 pm
If the Hawks can’t get lottery picks correct, why speculate on a #48 pick? Ken is correct but it is frustrating that the most likely scenario is for this team to continue to decline and the whole team is blown up again for a rebuilding process.
The Atlanta Clippers, I meant Hawks are difficult to believe in.
doc
May 28th, 2011
3:38 pm
grandad, it is pretty late in the game for the askg to do anything that is inspiring. sorry, that ship left dock a long time ago. their “brand” is so slimy that here is no way to rehabilitate it no matter who they would get to help them restore confidence much less rick sund trying to go out of character. who the f*ck would believe him?.
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
3:38 pm
Ken Strickland
It wasn’t so much Sund’s answers;
although spinned & canned.
His whole approach, mindset, & demeanor
leaves one wanting and somewhat depressed.
He is unable to articulate in an effusive way
that both engages and recharges the fan base.
At this point, with the Hawks weeping money,
it seems to me that a bit more dynamic approach
from Sund could not hurt the cause.
superiorblogman
May 28th, 2011
3:39 pm
Like I have been screaming all alone Rick Sund is a horrible GM and we are going nowhere with he, the ASG and Larry Drew in leadership.
Josh Smith or Al Horford to Cleveland for Varaejo and the #4 pick. Then move that #4 pick along with a 2nd rounder in next years draft and our 1st rounder in the 2012-13 draft and pick Derrick Williams. I think people are starting to see what I know, this dude is a SUPERSTAR, not star or all-star but SUPERSTAR and he is the only one in this draft. Now, since that’s the only way we can get a MVP in Sund’s flawed opinion, why is he not trying to make the move? He said it himself get the 1st or 2nd pick and you have a chance at a MVP. Why are we not knocking on that door?
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
4:03 pm
Najeh
Thanks for the link.
Imagine a creative GM, working to get his team better !
Their GM; isn’t he the one who used to be a ball-boy,
or a film splicer, or asst GM, or some such here ?
Did we interview Chris Grant and hire Sund instead ?
Somebody refresh my memory.
I think I just developed a case of;
Proctalgia Fugax.
Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill
May 28th, 2011
4:05 pm
Varejao & #4!? Derrick Williams is not a superstar just like Smith is not a superstar. No one is trading up to get a one way player.
Rockets- Motiejunas (starter), Leslie (depth)
In addition to scouting them I included measurements that suggest similar comparisons and similar physical toolboxes.
D.M. the post play and 15 foot & 3pt shot is present in D.M. only thing he does is like Blake Griffin he has short arms and gives up a bit defensively. I think Clippers are happy with Blake though. He takes jumpers. 7′0 Motiejunas shoots accurately with his height advantage like Garnett.
a perfect glue guy.
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
:::::
Houston gets
Al Horford
Pape Sy
Atlanta gets
Hasheem Thabeet
Jordan Hill
14th pick
23rd pick
:::
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3to95gw
don’t know what the Rockets game plan is but this team basically turned
>>>Jason Collins into Thabeet.
Al Horford >>>
1) potential Dwyane Wade/Tony Allen with offense off the bench (no talent drop off):o ,
2) potential Zach Randolph (measurements fit here as well), some say small arms are detriment for bigs but its all about proportions.
3) Moved Marvin a guy who has the arms of a center and moves like it to the bench in favor of Josh Smith a guy who has Lebron’s, Carmelo’s and Thaddeus Young’s points per possession efficiency in 2009-2010.
“After after a summer with Olajuwon, both Kobe Bryant and Josh Smith saw a significant dip in their eFG% around the rim this past season. 6-8 Josh Smith (PF) scored less often per possession and less efficiently in the post than many other forwards, including 6-8 LeBron James (SF), 6′10 Lamar Odom (PF), 6′10 Rashard Lewis (PF) and 6′8 Luol Deng (SF) to name a few.
“This doesn’t mean that they’re not learning, however, or that their time with Olajuwon had a negative impact on their post games. In fact, perhaps due to their summer workouts, both Bryant and Smith internalized Olajuwon’s advice and looked to be more active in the post last season. Bryant spent 19.4 percent of his time in the post, an unbelievably high number for a guard, which equaled the amount of time spent in the post by guards Dwyane Wade (6 percent), Brandon Roy (6.3 percent) and Vince Carter (7.1 percent) combined.
[u]Smith worked 18.7 percent of his offense in the post, which was significantly more than the aforementioned forwards James (6.3 percent), Odom (9.4 percent), Lewis (12 percent) and Deng (6.9 percent). [/u] Carmelo w Ultimately, it’s quite common for a player to experience a drop in efficiency with a large increase in attempts in a certain area, highlighting what tends to be a negative relationship between frequency and efficiency.” Also at work here may be Smith combating actual bigs like Gasol, Bosh and Garnett.
Ideally at 230-236 he has a higher usage and be able to attack more efficiently and stay out of foul trouble.
:::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
Similar height = similar center of gravity. Similar wingspan often means similar ball control/ability to dunk/shoot over defenders in the post.
Oe a catapult’s trajectory.
There are many different combinations of weight, height, and wingspan, standing reach and vertical as well.
For example
Here are similar
Height Wingspan Weight
Donatas Motiejunas 7′0″ 6′11″ 220 lbs.
Zach Randolph 6′10.25 6′11″ 255
Blake Griffin 6′10″ 6′ 11.25″ 248
Kevin Love 6′ 9.5″ 6′ 11.25″ 255
**Prospectus: 7′0 Boris Diaw/Zach Randolph. why he may fall: nonchalance.
#14 Atlanta Hawks Select: Donatas Motiejunas
Chris Paul 6′ 1″ 6′ 4.25″ 190
Jeff Teague 6′ 1.5″ 6′ 7.5″ 175
Derrick Rose 6′2.5″ 6′ 8″ 196
**Prospectus: skies the limit
Jordan Hill 6′10.25 7′1.5″ 232
Amare-lite
Amare Stoudemire 6′10 7′ 1.75″ 233
**Prospectus: bootleg Amare, more fluid Al Horford,
James Harden 6′ 5.25″ [u]6′ 10.75″ [/u]222
[u]Dwyane Wade [/u] 6′ 4.75″ 6′ 10.75″ 222
Travis Leslie 6′ 4.25″ 6′ 10.5″ 205
Tony Allen 6′ 4.25″ 6′ 9″ 214
#23 Atlanta Hawks Select: Travis Leslie
**Prospectus: low center of gravity, explosive slasher, defend
///////////////
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
model: 07-08 Celtics
Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill
May 28th, 2011
4:07 pm
hold onto Horford and think we don’t have a rebounding problem, were dead
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3to95gw
:::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
:::::
Houston gets
Al Horford
Pape Sy
Atlanta gets
Hasheem Thabeet
Jordan Hill
14th pick
23rd pick
:::
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
4:08 pm
dap01
If one does their job,
a player can be found at 48.
However, if Sund and Pendergraph,
say to themselves;
” why bother ”
which is what they seemingly do,
then pick # 48 is as useless as a…..
- frenchmen in the D-league – (}{)
superiorblogman
May 28th, 2011
4:16 pm
By the way, Phuck you Rick Sund. Since you read or hear about blogs enough to express that bloggers can make trades nowadays. Your opinion has not proven to be better than the better bloggers around here. So, what makes you want to slight or insult us? You work for us also you know? If we don’t support the team in showing up to games and just giving a phuck period you would not have a job. What you need to do is learn how to be a bigger man and stop being a mouthpiece for the ASG. Why don’t you step up and get the #1 or #2 pick so we can get a MVP type. Why don’t you quit with that BS about Al being a Center for the Hawks rather he likes it or not. Why don’t you quit comparing yourself to teams that have won championships or made it to the Finals multiple times when this team has never even gotten to the ECFinals. Let this 33 year old give you some wisdom Mr. Sund. There is nothing wrong with being optimistic as long as you have optimized your situation, and you have not optimized this situation.
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
4:18 pm
doc
You are correct my friend,
it’s just that he gives me constipation and diarrhea…
both at the same time ?
Such a painful malady.
Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill
May 28th, 2011
4:39 pm
50 wins guys?
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
Travis Leslie has similar measurements to Dwyane Wade last two guys who I noticed with measurements were Marcus Thornton (short arms=shooter) and James Harden (exact wingspan near same height). Harden became an incredible slasher. Both Wade and Harden are 220 currently but when Wade was drafted he was 212.
Leslie is just like Tony Allen. Game based on athleticism but he has Wades wingspan=ability to dribble and also more explosive.
Atlanta this is the only way. also Zach Randolph Blake Griffin Kevin Love and Motiejunas have same 6′11 compact wingspan and will be there at 14.
a 7′0 Zach Randolph. come on.
Trade Horford for Thabeet. He started and his advanced stats confirm that he is like Jason Collins/Yao he doesnt have to touch the ball he’ll get tip ins and easy dunks.
the next step is playing time for him and Jordan Hill. Hill measures verify his Amare comparisons but easier to hide on defense as he pays attention to detail and is a bit stockier skeletal frame.
A bunch of underdogs ala Jeff Teague. No pt = inconsistency. Please Horford has no mismatch upside.
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
4:54 pm
* G-Dad’s Trade O’ the Day *
-editor’s note-
For those who whine about useless meaningless trade ideas;
” I don’t care ” !
Now…on to business…
We send To New Orleans:
Joe…Josh…-&-…Jeff (as in Teaguer) nobody calls him Jeff
The Hawks Get:
Chris Paul…-&-…Okafor
For us a no brainer !
Well except for Sund, Joe is such a winner & all.
Moreso, than Paul, you know according to ” Sundowner ”
NOH;
I can’t imagine them getting a better offer.
if they had a 1st round pick [they don't] I would ask for -it- as well.
Oh yeah…It works on tr.mach.
JoJo the Godfather
May 28th, 2011
5:03 pm
Did you actually say Jordan Hill is “Amare-lite” and “a more fluid Al Horford”?
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
5:10 pm
Addendum to my last trade idea:
C.Paul – secretly forms a coterie with D. Howard…
to join him in 2012…in the Atl !
Alas…Alack…but for a GM with vision.
Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill
May 28th, 2011
6:32 pm
@Grandad
Okafor’s combination girth and length would look very nice next to Horford but alas Okafor is a center!
NBA/Hornets organization would never do that. Hinrich would have to play the two and Marvin the 3 as well!
U cant just trade uneven positions.
Centers for Centers rule of thumb.
Horford + Sy for Rockets 2 HOF Picks, Thabeet & Hill
May 28th, 2011
6:34 pm
@Grandad
Okafor’s combination girth and length would look very nice next to Horford but alas Okafor is a center!
NBA/Hornets organization would never do that. Hinrich would have to play the two and Marvin the 3 as well!
U cant just trade uneven positions.
rules of thumb: 1) Centers for “Centers” and Marvin is currently untradeable due to the toxicity of his contract.
Ken Strickland
May 28th, 2011
6:48 pm
GRANDAD-I feel your pain. I understand why Sund and the ASG places little value on draft picks. They demonstrated as much by giving them away just to get rid of Bibby. Why should they care, with the way draft picks, especially guards, and money have been wasted due to being ignored and undeveloped by Woodson and Drew. With the exception of lip service and a bunch of lame excuses, there’s been a total lack of committment and effort by both HC’s to develop a single rookie or young player, especially guards.
With the fanatical bias that exists with LDrew, which favors vets over rookies, or less experienced players, no matter what, and shared by MWoodson, trading draft picks for vets seems to be the only way to get any production out of the picks. After all, we’d still be talking about FREE JEFF TEAGUE, and getting excuses from LDrew and little to no production from Teague if not for the Bibby trade and KHinrich’s injury.
In fact, JTeague will be the 1st draft pick that’s not a SF, PF or C that’s gotten more than excuses and a chance to produce before his rookie contract ran out. The reason Sund feels our core has room to improve is because there’s been no effort by our HC(s) to impliment any sort of effort to help any of our young players develop and improve.
In fact, we’ve actually seen a number of our players regress as a result of this stupid approach. It’s far more important to design an OFF, or DEF, that fits the talents of your players. It’s never a good idea to fall in love with a particular OFF, or OFF philosophy, and try to force players into an OFF when their talents don’t fit. The old square peg into the round hole syndrome.
I remember JSmith getting so excited after spending an entire off season working on his inside gm with Hakeem. However, Woodson stuck with his ISO approach and added absolutely nothing to his OFF that took advantage of what Josh had worked on. Hence, he worked on his jump shot the following off season, drifted to the perimeter and started shooting jumpers, just like everyone else.
Everyone feels Josh should remain in the post where he seems to be most effective. But if you’re in a jumpshooting OFF that doesn’t routinely feed the post, what is he going to do to get any scoring opportunities, continue drifting to the perimeter and shoot jumpers, just like everyone else, or just disappear like MWilliams?
The biggest improvement to be realized by the Hawks has to start with HC LDrew.
Booo!
May 28th, 2011
7:15 pm
Keep up the Good Work MC!
Slimjr
May 28th, 2011
9:48 pm
Sund+Larry= 38-39 wins..What a lousy duo of so called “basketball men” These two are not talented enough to take the Hawks to the next level….
Send in the clowns…………
Sund you dont have the balls to draft a star in Derrick Williams anyway.. This organization does not deserve super talent like that??? Except for Nique, this franchise for 44 years has run from the exceptionally talented and specially gifted players which spells no EFC or Finals visit in half a FREAKIN CENTURY!!!
Here’s a partial list of players they could have put on the floor and won the FREAKIN THANG!
*Bill Russell
*Dr. J
*David “The original Sky Walker” Thompson with a 48″ vertical! STANDING at 6′4″ Scored almost 80 points in an NBA GAME!!!
*Charles Barkley
*CP3
*Rudy Gay
*DWill
*Rondo
*Granger
*Andre
Please feel free to add to this incredible list of individuals. And some of you cant understand why the fan base has had enough of the BS after a lousy half of a Century…. Wow Gus??
Slimjr
May 28th, 2011
9:49 pm
^^^^ECF^^^^
Slimjr
May 28th, 2011
9:51 pm
Al for the #2 pick..
Buddy Grizzard
May 28th, 2011
10:08 pm
Ken S.,
I don’t believe Lame Duck has any say in personnel. I believe the owners are closet Al Davis’ who hired Sund to rubber stamp their amatuer moves. I’ve heard it said that BK wanted DWill but the ASG veto’d it.
Give credit to the Old Horse because there will be a complete change of defensive culture on the team next year with the absense of Bibby, Crawford and ADAM MORRISON, I mean JC2, as well as the addition of Kirk and the emergence of Teague (who Sund drafted).
Ken Strickland
May 28th, 2011
10:22 pm
SLIMJR-For someone who thinks he knows more than any GM alive, and thinks he’s qualified to pass judgement on anyone, YOU ARE REALLY ONE EXTREMELY NEGATIVE MINDED INDIVIDUAL. All of your comments represent nothing more than a bunch of judgemental negative minded BS. GIVE IT A BREAK!
I guess making all of these fantasy league trade suggestions helps some of you pass the time during the down season.
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
10:27 pm
H+Syf R2HOFPT&H
If we had a pg = C.Paul
+
A true Center = Big Ok
+
Al…..as our core;
I could go with that !
I -know- of -no- rule of thumb,
Center for Center.
I actually saw a Josh for C.Paul trade proposal…
-on another site-, which included Ok & Teaguer,
but not Joe. (it may have included Kirk and or picks)
But no center.
* PS – I still want Singleton.
Trade Marv for a pick – mid 1st. (throw in whatever)
Gotta get back in 1st round !
Grandad
May 28th, 2011
10:32 pm
Ken Strickland
” I guess making all of these fantasy league
trade suggestions helps some of you
pass the time during the down season.”
Shoot-fire Ken…..Trade ideas are my hobby.
Ken Strickland
May 28th, 2011
10:36 pm
BUDDY GRIZZARD-You could be right about the ASG vetoing BKnight’s attempts to get a PG, but I do know MWoodson went on record as being against drafting CPaul or DWilliams. He said he doubted their ability to be successful at the NBA level due to their statue. He said CPaul was too small and DWilliams was too stocky, and neither was known for their jumpshooting ability.
I just don’t see Sund and the ASG letting LDrew finish out the final yr of his contract and not allow him to choose who he wants on his team. They certainly gave Woodson what he wanted, which is why we resigned Bibby, Zaza, JSmith and Marvin. After all, didn’t Sund and the ASG accomodate Drew when he wanted JCollins resigned? And didn’t they accomodate his wishes to buy out Pape Sy’s contract, and then sign him? WHY WOULD THEY DO A 180 NOW?
Ken Strickland
May 28th, 2011
10:50 pm
GRANDAD-like I said, if it helps to get you through these dull and down times, have at it. Also, what good will it do to trade for draft picks when you have a HC that would much rather make excuses than commit to developing and playing those picks?
Slimjr
May 28th, 2011
11:01 pm
“Shoot-fire Ken…..Trade ideas are my hobby.” LOL