Atlanta Hawks: About that backcourt . . ..
My story the other day included the line: “[P]laying Teague more minutes, especially in combination with Hinrich, would improve the defense.”
If the Hawks started that backcourt next season, it would finally signal they are serious about defense. Teague and Hinrich had developed a good defensive chemistry, with Teague as the relentless ball hound and Hinrich as the tough guy shedding screens and challenging shots. And that alignment moves J.J. to the 3, mitigating two of his main defensive weaknesses: containing quicker opponents and chasing anyone through screens.
Using Teague and Hinrich in combination could have benefits for the offense, too, which presumably means there’s a better chance L.D. would do it. Hinrich is a shot-maker who doesn’t need screens to get good looks. Teague showed against the Bulls that he’s capable of getting into the lane and making runners and floaters or setting up cutting teammates (at least when they did cut–watching Dallas last night reminded me of what that’s supposed to look like).
With Teague and Hinrich handling the ball the majority of the time instead of J.J., the Hawks would have a new, dynamic look (assuming fourth quarters aren’t still allowed to always become Iso-Joe shows). Remember when Teague said this regarding playing alongside Hinrich?
“It’s a lot easier. Defensively, you know he’s going to have your help and I am going to have his back. He’s easy to play with. He passes the ball and gets everybody involved. It makes your job a lot easier when you know a guy is willing to give up the ball. He’s a good player.”
In addition, a starting alignment of Teague-Hinrich-J.J. sends Marvin to the bench, where it’s become increasingly clear he belongs and where he might be a better fit, anyway. But there also is one major problem with using the Teague-Hinrich-J.J. alignment on a regular basis: It sends Marvin to the bench. (It also would leave the bench thin on scoring without Jamal, but that’s a topic for another time.)
Marvin, for all his faults, is a pretty good rebounder–his total rebound rate of 10.1 ranked 21st among small forwards who played at least 10 minutes per game, according to Hoopdata. (EDIT: Marvin bottom five in rebounding-rate differential this season. It could cancel out whatever defensive gains are provided by the Teague-Hinrich backcourt because, as the Hawks saw time and time against the Bulls, good defensive effort can go for naught if the opponent is rebounding too many of its misses.
J.J.’s lack of rebounding production looks worse when you compare his strong, 6-7, 240-plus pound frame to those of some of the better rebounders in the league. Guys like Melo (6-8, 230), Mike Miller (6-8, 220), Q-Rich (6-6, 230), Matt Barnes(6-7, 225), Ronnie Brewer (6-7, 230) and so on lack J.J’s physical gifts but are much better on the boards.
How is it that J.J. could push around J-Rich when he wanted to get to his spots on the floor but J-Rich (6-6, 225) is a much better rebounder?
It takes more than brawn to rebound–instincts, awareness, toughness, technique (blocking out) and persistence are also high on the list of desirable attributes. Plus, a lot of the guys who are good rebounders don’t shoulder nearly the same scoring burden as J.J.
But you’d think a guy with J.J.’s size and strength could be better if he focused on rebounding. He was right when he said the Hawks could use more guys to do the dirty work. It’s also true that the Hawks would be a better team, with a potentially better lineup, if J.J. pitched in on that effort.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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406 comments Add your comment
Mystikal
May 25th, 2011
8:18 pm
Can’t blame Al for getting tired of being overmatched almost nightly and being the ONLY one bringing his hard hat every night while the rest of the team acts like pansies. More over knowing in the back of your mind that your season will likely end the same since nothing has changed. Al is a winner but can’t help us win if he has no one going to war with him.
Gearon
May 25th, 2011
8:23 pm
“Josh Smith has not stated anything and maybe that is because he has no clue of what he really is or wants to be. He just wants to do what he wants to do. There is a difference.”
Al Horford wants to be a power forward because he’s small and not athletic (strength and/or length ie Ben Wallace, Joel Anthony) enough to make up the difference.
Josh Smith knows Marvin Williams cannot play center. He has $8 million committed to him. Same reason Bibby Started over Teague.
$$$$$$
You have to play your money players.
What he Actually said was:
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that Hawks forward Josh Smith doesn’t care if he plays small forward or power forward in 2011-12. “It is what it is,” Smith said. “It’s a controversial question. I’m just here to play.”
:::::::
Smith recognized that he is forcing the organizations hand to trade Marvin for a center, only way to acquire a center is thru Horford.
:::::::
This is why nobody respects the Atlanta Hawks. Varejao for Bynum or potbelly offseason party animal Greg Oden. or Nene who has no defense and wants to play the power forward himself like Horford
lmao owning the Hawks is so easy. Just string the fans along.
Derrick Williams is either Dajuan Summers part 2 or Lebron. Hawks fans say Lebron so they trade “Lebron South” who was courteous enough to recognize MArvin is untradeable for a qualtty center and only Horford brings back value.
Hawks suck and there golden cow Horford sucks too and is a midget at either PF or C. TRUTH
Mystikal
May 25th, 2011
8:41 pm
Think we need to accept that this team has PEAKED as currently constructed.
-Al Horford has been playing out of position since he got her and although productive, he is getting tired of it.
-Josh doesn’t know if he wants to be SF or PF; even though he is very effective when he’s in the post, he’d rather shoot long jumpers just to prove he can do it.
- As good as JJ is he can’t lead a team to a championship. So unless we put pieces around him to look like the blue collar 05′ Detroit team, we’ll continue to dwell in mediocrity.
-Marvin (like J Smith) has loads of talent, but after 6+ years is still trying to figure his position/role.
-Sadly Teague still hasn’t truly got a chance to show what he can do. The flash we saw in these playoffs was by default, but hopefully he’ll get a chance now.
-J Crawford is only effective as a green light shooter. Can’t have him running the offense and don’t expect much on defense, but if you need him to score he can help.
-Hinrich gets it done. Not the most talented, but he can hit shots and brings effort on both ends
-Zaza, J Collins, and D Wilkens are good role players and everyone else is dead weight
This is what Larry Drew has to work with and all considered I think he has gotten the most out of this bunch. So unless ASG want to open the pocketbook (pause for hysterical laughter) or we get a GM with a clue (or some balls) don’t expect anything different.
Rusty
May 25th, 2011
8:52 pm
Under ld everybody regressed. He is our biggest problem.
O'Brien
May 25th, 2011
9:32 pm
Milwaukee Hawks,
Smith is to small to post up Garnett. He has no inside game. His jumper needs to be a threat to get past defenders and dunk the ball or draw fouls. Smart defenders sag off of a shooter. Josh becomes worthless without a jumper. He is a slasher 3 not a stretch 4..
I know its the exception, but Dennis Rodman made it to the HOF without much of an offensive game. he made his living on defense and rebounding.
Slimjr
May 25th, 2011
9:52 pm
WITH THE 2011 #2 PICK THE ATLANTA HAWKS PICK ROOKIE OF THE YEAR 2012 DERRICK WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALLSTAR-AL= FAKE POWER FORWARD
JOSH AND MARVIN TO MIN. FOR THE #2 PICK, DERRICK WILLIAMS…
JOEL ANTHONY PLAYS SUPERIOR HELP DEFENSE COMPARED TO ALLSTAR- AL!!
AL IS TOO SLOW TO HELP ANYBODY………………..
Slimjr
May 25th, 2011
9:54 pm
LARRY IS “THE WEAKEST LINK”!
Slimjr
May 25th, 2011
10:01 pm
FYI, Congress is having Congressional hearings to figure out how to generate new tax legislation for your retirement plans..They want to take aleast 15% of your monies….Get ready to bend over again…….
Slimjr
May 25th, 2011
10:01 pm
at least ^^^^
Milwaukee Hawks,
May 25th, 2011
10:48 pm
Milwaukee Hawks,
Smith is to small to post up Garnett. He has no inside game. His jumper needs to be a threat to get past defenders and dunk the ball or draw fouls. Smart defenders sag off of a shooter. Josh becomes worthless without a jumper. He is a slasher 3 not a stretch 4..
I know its the exception, but Dennis Rodman made it to the HOF without much of an offensive game. he made his living on defense and rebounding.
Dennis Rodman was faster and more compact than Smith will ever be. In his Prime he was 230 at most. Probably had a different wingspan than Smith, Lebron, Carmelo, Thaddeus etc.
That’s like comparing quick Pacquiao (Rodman) to an Evander Holyfield type.
Beasley Smith and Lebron have similar and near identical measurements and to some extent bone structures.
Shawn Marion as well 6′8 7′0 flat arms.
And Dennis Rodman played what position his first two championships??? Small Forward with Rick Mahorn, Laimbeer, Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas.
is Horford/Marvin Laimbeer or Mahorn lol?
Traded to the spurs with HOF david robinson played PF with a bunch of guards trying to run up and down. Failed to win it all.
Went to the Bulls and had MICHAEL JORDAN and SCOTTIE PIPPEN and Kukoc.
MICHAEL JORDAN and SCOTTIE PIPPEN AL HORFORD one of these is not like the other
Dennis Rodman- small forward who started guarding James Worthy but guarded everyone but Kareem remember that. And he was also traded how many times?
Also remember Shawn Marion 6′8 230 leaking out on the break using pump fakes to get hook shots on the break before the defense gets back.
Can you imagine Hawks telling Shawn Marion to play at 245 lbs lol his career would be over.
Bird Word
May 25th, 2011
11:05 pm
Would anyone trade Josh for Bogut and draft picks if you could keep Crawford?
G Teague/ Hinrich
G Crawford/ JJ
F JJ/ Marvin
F Horford/ Marvin
C Bogut/ Horford/ Zaza
Mystikal
May 25th, 2011
11:33 pm
Hey MC,
Do we even know what the interest for Smith is on the market right now?
Are teams willing to give up the likes of a Bynum?
SteveW
May 25th, 2011
11:45 pm
The weird thing about Al is at the draft combine, he was like one of the 10 strongest guys in the past 10 years or something like that. He was a beast. Did 225lbs. like 20 times. I think maybe Chucky Hayes and Carl Landry have done more – 22 or something, but not many.
Dwight, as a 19 year or so at the combine could only do 7 reps. Now look at him! Noah did maybe 13 reps, same as Jeff Teague. Now look at Noah!
The problem is Al’s strength regimen plain and simple. I don’t know what he’s working on, cardio, stretching etc, but it’s obviously not strength. I don’t think the guy has gained 5 lbs. since he’s been in the League, while Dwight has gained 35, Josh 25 etc.
Same with Marvin. Somebody needs to get these guys pumping some Dwight type iron. Then I don’t think they’ll whine so much being in the paint, and can knock somebody down when they drive.
Lebron weighs more than Al for cryin’ out loud!
Al, hit the weight room buddy. Your friend Noah is bypassing you because he knows how to pump the iron.
SteveW
May 26th, 2011
12:00 am
Actually Teague out benched Noah at the combine.
Teague 225 lbs 13 times
Noah 225 lbs 12 times.
SteveW
May 26th, 2011
12:03 am
The most reps at an NBA combine was a guy named Jason Keep in 2003 with 27 reps.
It was not a bad pick
May 26th, 2011
12:04 am
lol at anybody on this blog who bash Al and Marvin instead of Joe and Josh!..Al is 6ft 8 and has had to play C his whole career..Marvin averaged 14ppg while shooting 45% or better for 3 years straight with solid D…But when jamal and his 1000 shots came to ATL, The Hawks stopped going to him….All while Josh jacked up bad shot after bad shot and Joe hogged the ball……Quick ?
1.With Al really being 6ft8, and Josh being 6ft7, why has no one suggested Josh playing center?…
Al is 25x better than Josh…Marvin is 15x better than Josh…When the Hawks trade Marvin to a team with the following….1.PG, 2.coach, 3. big man, Marvin will be a 20 ppg player in the NBA..Hell, he averaged 15 his 3rd year only taking 12 shots a game..the Hawks need a coach in the worst way!..
SteveW
May 26th, 2011
12:16 am
Al’s standing reach is longer than Noah’s.
Marvin’s is longer than Josh’s, Noah’s or Al’s at 9.0 ft.
SteveW
May 26th, 2011
12:16 am
Al is 6.875
Josh is 6-7
Marvin is 6-7
SteveW
May 26th, 2011
12:18 am
The Mavs are in. Hope Chicago beats Miami
Grandad
May 26th, 2011
12:20 am
Rodman could defend all five positions.
Offensively:
he was unselfish to a fault and a very underrated passer.
If he was in with a [4] I reckon you called him a [3].
If he was in with a [3] coversely you might call him a [4].
If he defended the pg, was he the [1] ?
When he defended Shaq, was he a [5] ?
Nimbers, always caught up in nimbers, [1] through [5].
Rodman was a basketball player. period.
Milwaukee Hawks,
May 26th, 2011
12:21 am
Marvin is at least 245 lbs that’s 17 lbs of muscle added. (cant find nba.com article)
Josh Smith has lost much athleticism and loses the weight so easily. Its not natural or optimal.
Lebron weighs more than Amare and Nowitzki and Blake Griffin but no one says anything because they are better than Al.
Al Horford does not carry weight well. Whatever he’d gain on offense he’d lose in lateral movement and is not a shot blocker anyways.
He’d be a short armed Okafor.
Dwight Howard has longer arms and more skeletal height than Horford. That’s more surface area to add muscle to.
Howard and Horford are actually both close to 6′10 but Howards arm allow him to punch above his height and play “taller” than he is.
Dwight Howard has to jump 8.5″ inches to dunk with a 38″ vertical (has to exert 22% of vert). Horford has to jump 13 inches to dunk with a 35.5″ vertical (has to exert 37% of his vert)
Horford will never be Dwight Howard.
Sad cuz his game is based on trying to dunk on people. Either that or he needs help to get open on pick and pop.
On defense he can become Chuck Hayes a short armed guy who uses lower body strength and has limited offense. Horford is a gimmick player like Hayes. Hayes btw wants to play the 4 as well.
Milwaukee Hawks,
May 26th, 2011
12:30 am
Rodman could defend all five positions.
Offensively:
If he was in with a [4]Bill Laimbeer and [5]Rick Mahorn I reckon you called him a [3].
result 2 championships with 2 low key 2 way player Dumars who was like Joe Johnson with a lower center of gravity less iso but a better defensive stance and a 20 & 10 guy in Thomas.
If he was in with a [3] coversely you might call him a [4].
You mean if he was in with HOF/GOAT Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. With David Robinson he was a 4 and was traded bcuz it wasnt enough. Only when 7′0 Duncan joined a fading 7′0 Robinson.
I said you need to overcome what Josh gives up on offense with good offense. Only example ppl give is 6′6 Dennis Rodman who needed Jordan and Pippen.
If Smith defended Lebron/Deng, was he the [3] ? yes
When he defended [Joakim Noah], was he a [5] ? yes
Numbers, always caught up in numbers, [1] through [5].
Rodman was a basketball player. period. as is Josh Smith
Grandad
May 26th, 2011
12:31 am
Tonite OkC went with four guards. I’m calling Durant a guard,
along with Collison, who’s a natural [4].
My point ( or who was theirs) ?
Collison was guarding Dirk, a [4].
OkC had two pgs a [2] and a [3].
Do you think they were worried about nimbers ?
No !
Their two pgs were not playing the [1].
Harden a [2] was playing pg or the [1].
Durant was just doing what he always does.
But the other four;
do you think for a moment they were concerned about which nimber
was attached to each player ?
—Or—
Do you figure they just played basketball ?
EmirS.
May 26th, 2011
12:33 am
Whose to say that Derrick Williams will be available with the 2nd pick?
I’m willing to look at the draft from a different angle. Kryie Irving and Derrick Williams are the two most promising star like talents in the draft. But looking at the Cavs roster, they don’t have a need for another guard. Derrick Williams would be twice as more useful to the Cavs then Kyrie Irving. Unless Irving is expected to be like the next Derrick Rose or something, I would go with Williams as the number 1 pick.
But ofcourse every single Mock draft has Irving going first so…its whatever really.
Grandad
May 26th, 2011
12:40 am
Milwaukee Hawks, -&- everybody else
espn the mag asked D.Rose about PEDs in the NBA.
Rose:
when queried if there was a problem,
and if the problem was measured on a scale from 1 – 10
what would he score the problem;
answered: ” 7 ” – then continued:
” there needs to be a level playing field ”
My point;
Take a look at D.Howard and LbJ.
`taint natural.
Milwaukee Hawks,
May 26th, 2011
12:49 am
OkC tried to overload the opposing team with offense and lost
they played a sloppy brand of basketball with undefined equal opportunities. Harden ran numerous pick and rolls but Collison was not a big enough target on the roles.
The objective is to “just play basketball” ie just shoot 3s and sh*t. The OKC Thunder lost. Without mobile 7 foot KG, Kendrick Perkins turned into Jason Collins and they had to go small.
They had no inside-out game no post game to compliment slashers and shooters and the better team won.
Harden is better than Harden just like Joe is better than Bogans but Mavericks were a better defensive team.
“he’s long, he tries to make it hard on Durant. We post him up he has layups and floaters in the lane” Nowitzki on Josh Smith I mean the 6′8 230 lb Shawn Marion lol
OKC was new to playing small and Harden looked like a PG out there they may have pulled it off with more experience.
No team finishing under 12th defensively has ever won the title.
Grandad
May 26th, 2011
12:51 am
If I had the # 1 overall pick, and I could not trade down,
I would select:
* – Kawhi Leonard – *
6-7, San Diego St., 19 yrs old,
I would draft him on 3 criteria:
(1) He’s a physical specimen
(2) Potential
(3) Work ethic, and blue collar mentality
Grandad
May 26th, 2011
12:54 am
Milwaukee Hawks,
You missed my point entirely.
I was not debating strategy.
OKC lost because DIRK played for Dallas !
Grandad
May 26th, 2011
12:58 am
My 12:51 am post was for *— EmirS.—*
The Real Mandingo
May 26th, 2011
12:59 am
@Big Word
I totally co-mickeyfickey-sign. I would seriously consider making that move. Josh Smith’s attitude is like a cancerous tumor that needs to be surgically removed. He’s also a bad teammate but, unfortunately, I think most NBA experts already know this which make him hard to move/trade.
“Bird Word
May 25th, 2011
11:05 pm
Would anyone trade Josh for Bogut and draft picks if you could keep Crawford?
G Teague/ Hinrich
G Crawford/ JJ
F JJ/ Marvin
F Horford/ Marvin
C Bogut/ Horford/ Zaza”
@Grandad
May 26th, 2011
1:16 am
1 Chicago 97.4 <>
2 Boston 97.8 <>
3 Orlando 99.1 <>
<<<>>>
Bogut, Sanders, Mbah a Moute, Salmons . Imagine Mbah a Moute becoming Josh Smith and Jennings becoming Teague and Delfino becoming Joe Johnson. Salmons and Gooden becoming a 6th man= depth.
would become Top 12 Defense at worst: Teague(!)/Johnson/Smith/Sanders/Bogut
(Ronnie Price)-Salmons/Al Thornton/Gooden/Pachulia-Collins
5 Miami 100.7 <>
6 LA Lakers 101.3 <>
7 Dallas 102.3 <>>
8 New Orleans 102.5 <<>>
Memphis 102.5 <>>
Philadelphia 102.5 <>
11 San Antonio 102.8 <>
12 Indiana 103.4 <<>>
13 Oklahoma City 104. <<>>
14 Portland 104.2 <<>
15 Atlanta 104.6 <>
16 Denver 104.8 <<>>
Little Fawkers
May 26th, 2011
2:47 am
Trade Josh Smith for whatever we can get. Just get him out of Atlanta! I predict he becomes a decent player under a real head coach (sorry Drew) but ain’t happening here. Time to move on and take some of the other scabs with you.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 26th, 2011
2:52 am
James Harden reminds me of a young Joe. Hopefully he gets to play the complementary role throughout his career that his talents dictate rather than being miscast as a #1 like Joe has been.
superiorblogman
May 26th, 2011
3:17 am
MC, are the Hawks looking into Derrick Williams?
EmirS.
May 26th, 2011
3:27 am
@Najeh
Lol funny,
During the OKC/Dallas game I was watching Harden. And like all other players we usually, as fans, like to compare them to other known stars. So I started thinking to whom I could compare Harden to.
Only one…literally…only one other player I could compare him to…Joe Johnson. It’s funny because his knowledge of the game seems to surpass that of JJ. He’s a very good passer and a decent scorer as well as defender. A pretty inconsistent scorer tho. But decent none the less. TNT and ESPN crew’s call his game “Old Man’s Game”. As in old school basics…which show quite well. I’ve been watching him as a player all season. Not often but every now and then. Thru the playoffs, I’ve gotten a chance to see more of him. He’s a starter that comes in off the bench. And only because OKC needs ammo off the bench.
Sadly tho, I don’t see him as a future All-Star player.
O'Brien
May 26th, 2011
8:05 am
I am big fan of OKC. But Scott Brooks, KD and Westbrook should be getting alot of heat from OKC fans and media.
Anytime a team crumbles in the last 5 minutes of back to back playoff games, you have to question the leadership on the sideline (HC), the floor leader (Westbrook), and the team’s best player (Durant).
Although Westbrook is more talented, he reminded me of Josh Smith. By that I mean terrible decision making at times, and terrible shot selection at times. And KD reminded me of JJ somewhat, in that he was not demanding the ball at crucial times down the stretch.
For example, last night, down 1, one minute to go, Eric Maynor tells the team to clear out. and let him go one on one (despite the fact that KD and Harden are available to receive the pass). And what does KD do? Nothing. At that point, he needed to go over to Maynor and demand the ball. Those are the little things that can change the outcome of a game.
They are still a young team with a young HC, and Westbrook was not a natural PG in college, so he is learning. But they could have been up 3-2 going back to OKC. A wasted opportunity for them, because who knows which teams they will play in the playoffs next year.
ag
May 26th, 2011
8:32 am
Mystikal – you must have missed the playoffs or you don’t consider those games being played at night. Al sucked.
Trojan
May 26th, 2011
8:40 am
I am still puzzled at how Al could be so soft in the playoffs. I love Al but he totally disappeared. We need toughness, right now Al is not tough enough to play PF much less center.
Slimjr
May 26th, 2011
9:56 am
Westbrook= Josh, no winners here…. shoot
Slimjr
May 26th, 2011
9:56 am
Al got soft cause he played for LARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
doc
May 26th, 2011
10:14 am
o’b though i have heard very little from brooks mouth, what comes out is not sharp nor inspiring.
SteveW
May 26th, 2011
11:55 am
I wouldn’t bet the house that LeBron weighs more than Blake Griffin as asserted above.
Gary
May 26th, 2011
11:57 am
I can see Harden as a future all-star, in the JJ mold of course. He has a lot of confidence and basketball IQ. Celtics probably kicking themselves for not insisting on him instead of Green in the Perkins trade.
northcyde
May 26th, 2011
12:36 pm
Enter your comments here
dj dascorpian
May 26th, 2011
12:58 pm
If we traded Al to the Lakers: Al would flourish off of the bench. If we traded Josh to Orlando: Josh will flourish for Van Gundy. If we traded Zaza to LA/Orlando, Zaza would flourish under that system. Even Marvin-with his big ole butt-would flourish under the right coaching circumstances. I read a lot of these post with bloggers tweating about the kind of Hawks team they want. This is the common tread that must be done. Hire a great coach who is about winning, period. The Hawks issue is -as much as they are talented; they’re not big enough at certain positions, and once those issues are handled, the Hawks will again-make the playoffs and possibly get past round two.
ILL-Logical
May 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
Congrats to the Mavs for a well played, tough win. It look like a 2006 rematch for the Finals; MC, who you got?
ILL-Logical
May 26th, 2011
1:04 pm
*looks*
brigadierjerry
May 26th, 2011
3:11 pm
I was thinking what model is the quickest was for the Hawks to really become a contender and I think it is the Celtics model. I would move JJ to the 3 since he is crafty and getting his shots like Pierce. The problem is who is going to be the Garnett type player for the Hawks from a defensive ?Can it be Horford or smith or do they have to get someone for that role?Also, I dont mind the idea of putting Kirk at the two guard but if not then I wouldnt mind a person like Anthony Parker or someone who can shoot from the 2 guard spot. Teague will be the point. Funny Teague reminds me of Eric Manyor a lot their games are very similar.
Also since Drew seems to like offense a lot why not get a defensive assistant to focus on that side of the ball?If Lester Conner is that I dont see the results on the court
northcyde
May 26th, 2011
3:15 pm
You guys do know that the 3-guard backcourt didn’t work during the regular season . . . right?
It was only a small sample size ( 30 minutes vs 3 teams ). But that lineup was one of the worst we could put out on the floor last season. That lineup only held its own vs Milwaukee, and that was partially because JJ was red hot ( the 1st headband game )
But when that lineup played against Denver, they got destroyed offensively. And in the brief time they played vs Chicago, they got destroyed on the boards.
It’s a reason why teams don’t go to 3 guard lineups as their main lineup. JJ’s potential rebounding issues is only part of the issue with that lineup.
Hinrich, while a good defender, isn’t a defensive stopper by any means. And that lineup would put even more pressure for Smith and Horford to rebound the basketball.
***********************
The main problem with JJ’s assessment of his rebounding, is that while it is low ( for how big he is ), MC compared JJ to guys that play mainly SF.
Of the guys MC listed, only Brewer exclusively plays SG most of the time. Melo never plays SG . . Q-Rich plays SF about 70% of the time . . Matt Barnes may guard SGs, but plays almost exclusively at SF. And as far as J-Rich being a much better rebounder, I think MC must have meant Q-Rich. Because J-Rich’s total rebounding rate is slightly below JJ’s ( 6.9 to 6.7 for J-Rich ).
But those other guys rebounding had more to do with the position they played on the court, and their role in the offense, than their size and physical strengths.
But JJ is the highest paid. And like Barkley said . . there’s a certain amount of responsibility that comes with that contract. LOL . . and while people don’t think he’s the best player on the team, that contract will expect him to play like the best. So it is what it is. If coach needs for him to rebound more, that’s just what he has to do.
MIke Miller, while technically listed as a SG, still played 45% of his minutes at the 3. Miller has always been a very good rebounding G/F though, and ranks #1 amongst SGs.
Melo a SF, is #3 in rebounding amongst SFs ( 12.4 total rebound rate ). Melo plays around the rim, so he’s going to get his share of offensive rebounds, and has always been a very good defensive rebounding SF.
Brewer’s TRR is a very good 8.6. In his case though, he’s told to crash the boards because he’s going to get few plays ran for him. That’s one of the reasons why he’s ranked #6 amongst SGs in Offensive Rebounding rate.
The only question with JJ is if he could rasie his current 6.9 total rebounding rate, to close to what Marvin’s is right now at 10.1 if he exclusively played SF. But with that 3-guard lineup, that still may not even be enough.
Because you’d still have a situation in which Smith and Horford would have to rebound better, and force Teague and Hinrich to up their rebounding as well.
Here’s the real about rebounding. I’ll use hoopdata as well. We’ll go with guys who have played in 40+ games . . averaged at least 20 minutes a game. Here is where our main guys rank by position. When you click on the link, you’ll also have to click on the blue TRR column ( not the first TRR on the League Averages line, but the TRR column on the Player Name line ). Click on that column once or twice to get the numbers to descend from highest to lowest.
Johnson - tied 15th amongst SGs ( 6.9 total rebounding rate )
Marvin – 10th amongst SFs ( 10.1 )
Smith – 16th amongst PFs ( 15.0 )
Horford – 16th amongst Cs ( 16.0 )
I mean . . sometimes people must tell the entire truth about this team. We all know what the problem is.
Rebounding has been an issue with this team since forever. I think it’s hilarious that Marvin, of all people, has a higher total rebounding rate for his position, than JJ, Smith, AND Horford. And Marvin flat out disappears from a rebounding standpoint at times. But because other guys get more offensive possessions, their lack of rebounding doesn’t stick out as much . . or they’ll have a monster rebounding game and pad their stats to balance out the weak rebounding games.
By the way, using this standard of reference, Jamal Crawford ranks LAST in this sample amongst SGs, even behind guys like Jason Terry, JJ Barea, and JJ Redick.
So the question is not only can JJ raise his rebounding rate playing SF, but also can Smith and Horford raise their defensive rates respective to their position into the top 10, if we go small? I mean, unless we’re going to ask Teague and Hinrich to also produce respectable rebounding rates as well for their position.
By the way, amongst the regular rotation guys, Zaza has the best total rebounding rate at 16.1
Balance out the roster ASG.
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2011
3:25 pm
A solid week of negativity…I along with you find myself guilty.
Entering 2011 we have
Teague, Kirk and Joe can handle the backcourt well. We need to add someone who can drive the basket like Teague did in the playoffs. Possibly a spot up shooter. Teague can work on his shot. Kirk will be fine with more time to develop the offensive sets. He needs to know when his shot is coming and from where…as do all good shooters.
Josh isn’t such a big deal at SF if he can put some post moves together. Horford likes the perimeter. If they both effectively work together, they’re a pretty dangerous combo. They just need to focus on post moves and mid range jumpers this summer. No more 3’s.
ZaZa might benefit from more time at C, but we honestly need an impact C this summer. An athletic draft project would be nice. Someone who can finally fill that defensive post defender role, someone who can rebound and clean up the mess while giving Al & Josh the support they obviously need.
Sy will be the “blue collar” type player we need to help in the backcourt and SF. I’m almost guessing they’ll bring Collins and Damien back as inexpensive role players.
Other than that we have Marvin under contract…who for the how many summers in a row is still wondering what to do to fill a role on this team? Nothing personal…I see his talent, but he needs a chance to bloom somewhere. Maybe if Jamal moves on he can get his touches. It’s obvious he doesn’t mesh with Josh, Joe and Al. He can either lead the 2nd unit in scoring like Jamal…or move on.
Jamal is an assett when you need an unstructured scorer who takes advantage of opportunities. He can’t handle PG or defensive assignments. He’s great for a boost, but can’t be expected to run the offense or show leadership on D.
We’ve got alot of positions that will be open this summer. We need to find a way to make some trades for some young, hungry talent. We need heart and energy…or as Joe said it…blue collar players.
We also need LD to realize he’s got to use those players. Everyone needs a role. Everyone can make an impact if utilized correctly. We just have too many folks that aren’t allowed to fit in.