Atlanta Hawks: About that backcourt . . ..
My story the other day included the line: “[P]laying Teague more minutes, especially in combination with Hinrich, would improve the defense.”
If the Hawks started that backcourt next season, it would finally signal they are serious about defense. Teague and Hinrich had developed a good defensive chemistry, with Teague as the relentless ball hound and Hinrich as the tough guy shedding screens and challenging shots. And that alignment moves J.J. to the 3, mitigating two of his main defensive weaknesses: containing quicker opponents and chasing anyone through screens.
Using Teague and Hinrich in combination could have benefits for the offense, too, which presumably means there’s a better chance L.D. would do it. Hinrich is a shot-maker who doesn’t need screens to get good looks. Teague showed against the Bulls that he’s capable of getting into the lane and making runners and floaters or setting up cutting teammates (at least when they did cut–watching Dallas last night reminded me of what that’s supposed to look like).
With Teague and Hinrich handling the ball the majority of the time instead of J.J., the Hawks would have a new, dynamic look (assuming fourth quarters aren’t still allowed to always become Iso-Joe shows). Remember when Teague said this regarding playing alongside Hinrich?
“It’s a lot easier. Defensively, you know he’s going to have your help and I am going to have his back. He’s easy to play with. He passes the ball and gets everybody involved. It makes your job a lot easier when you know a guy is willing to give up the ball. He’s a good player.”
In addition, a starting alignment of Teague-Hinrich-J.J. sends Marvin to the bench, where it’s become increasingly clear he belongs and where he might be a better fit, anyway. But there also is one major problem with using the Teague-Hinrich-J.J. alignment on a regular basis: It sends Marvin to the bench. (It also would leave the bench thin on scoring without Jamal, but that’s a topic for another time.)
Marvin, for all his faults, is a pretty good rebounder–his total rebound rate of 10.1 ranked 21st among small forwards who played at least 10 minutes per game, according to Hoopdata. (EDIT: Marvin bottom five in rebounding-rate differential this season. It could cancel out whatever defensive gains are provided by the Teague-Hinrich backcourt because, as the Hawks saw time and time against the Bulls, good defensive effort can go for naught if the opponent is rebounding too many of its misses.
J.J.’s lack of rebounding production looks worse when you compare his strong, 6-7, 240-plus pound frame to those of some of the better rebounders in the league. Guys like Melo (6-8, 230), Mike Miller (6-8, 220), Q-Rich (6-6, 230), Matt Barnes(6-7, 225), Ronnie Brewer (6-7, 230) and so on lack J.J’s physical gifts but are much better on the boards.
How is it that J.J. could push around J-Rich when he wanted to get to his spots on the floor but J-Rich (6-6, 225) is a much better rebounder?
It takes more than brawn to rebound–instincts, awareness, toughness, technique (blocking out) and persistence are also high on the list of desirable attributes. Plus, a lot of the guys who are good rebounders don’t shoulder nearly the same scoring burden as J.J.
But you’d think a guy with J.J.’s size and strength could be better if he focused on rebounding. He was right when he said the Hawks could use more guys to do the dirty work. It’s also true that the Hawks would be a better team, with a potentially better lineup, if J.J. pitched in on that effort.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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406 comments Add your comment
vava74
May 24th, 2011
8:02 pm
Najeh,
The 3 guard rotation implies, IMO, that either Teague or Hinrich will be quickly pulled for a breather depending on match ups and production with JJ sliding to SG and Marving (or Wilkins) coming in at the SF slot.
For me, it would work fine with Sy being the 4th back court wheel. He seems to have enough handles to give us spot minutes and he looks veeeery quick and agile for his size.
O'Brien
May 24th, 2011
8:08 pm
In the playoffs, Marvin played 216 minutes, and he only had 27 rebounds (1 rebound every 8 minutes). Unacceptable.
That being said, his regular season rebounding total might have been better if the starting Center and starting PF weren’t averaging 18 rebounds per game.
That being said, Marvin is way overpaid. And Rick deserves alot of the blame for giving him a 5 year deal at the salary he did without even letting him test the market.
vava74
May 24th, 2011
8:13 pm
First of all, we should all get used to the fact that we will have the shortest possible roster due to cap restrictions.
The most likely trade to happen will involve Josh.
If no one is traded and we have to resort to bottom of the barrel filler, we can still be competitive with a very solid but short 7 men rotation based almost exclusively on:
Teague(PG) – Hinrich(SG/PG) – JJ(SF/SG) – Josh (PF/SF) – AL(C/PF)
Marvin(SF/PF/SG) – Zaza(C/PF)
then, giving us spot minutes:
Sy (PG/SG) – Wilkins (SG/SF) – Hilton (PF/C) – Collins (C) (who will almost certainly sign with someone else) – 2nd round pick (?)
That’s 12 guys.
The Heat and the Bulls will be a cut above everyone else. BOS and ORL are washed up as contenders.
NYK are what they are. PHI and IND will continue to be playoff contenders but lack experience and a few pieces. Also, Philly’s players will start to tune out Collins.
No one else looks to be improving next year. Nyets, Raptors, Bobcats, Washington will continue to be lottery bound and MIL’s roster has proven to be a mirage.
Basically, even if we don’t change a thing we will be #3 – #5 material.
The Game Has Changed
May 24th, 2011
8:15 pm
@KevinM-We might just have to pay the luxury tax. Thats up to the owners. But I just dont see us benefiting by rebuilding or making crazy trades. Joe is gonna show you he is worth every dime next year. lol Watch
O'Brien
May 24th, 2011
8:18 pm
Although the Hawks are missing players who are willing to do the dirty work, we are also lacking in leadership (despite the 3 captains). And it starts at the top. LD does not set a good example (imo), and he does not hold players accountable enough and JJ does not set a good enough example (in words and action).
Durant and OKC choked last night. Durant’s comments after the game?
“I feel upset because I let them down,” Durant said of the home crowd. “I let the city down.”.
Hmm…A star player taking responsibility. Imagine that. Compare that to “we could care less if they show up” and “I don’t get all of the glory when we win so I don’t get to take all the [blame] when we lose.”.
JANDREWS487
May 24th, 2011
8:21 pm
Hey MC:
What are your thoughts about Al?
I think he’s a 4, and I think he could flourish in the league with a banging 5 down low.
Blast
May 24th, 2011
8:25 pm
Dennis Rodman said it best, and people laughed at him. Rodman said rebounding was a science, when asked how he snagged all those rebounds, and he was right. I will explain why.
I played point in college, and I rebounded better than centers. How did this happen?
Rebounding is scientific in that it’s all about trajectory, angles and calculations. Even these days sitting in my living room, when a player releases a shot, lots of times I can tell if the ball will swish the net or clang off the rim or backboard. So by watching the balls trajectory, I can guess where the ball will hit, and if it’s a miss, I can calculate where the ball will ultimately end up at, so I’m usually the first to get to that spot, and claim that rebound. Calculation, timming, and speed is why I was able to rebound better than centers, and I am only 5′9 inches tall. Same calculations helped with snagging loose balls and steals also.
Rebounding is not always about taller, bigger and blocking out. It’s about heart, desire, hustle, science and a fierce will that says, “every loose ball is mine, and I am gonna claim it!”
A back court of Teague and Kirk would be superb!
Show some heart tonight, Bulls!!!!!!
Stupid Writer
May 24th, 2011
8:51 pm
The Hawks play as poorly as Michael Cunningham writes. Who the he!! are Smoove, JJ and LD? Here’s an idea: Josh, Drew and Johnson. Why don’t you focus on filling your space with solid content and stop trying to be hip, urban cool and write something we, the season ticket holders want to read?
ant banks
May 24th, 2011
9:27 pm
oh well, it looks like miami is goin’ to rep the east and may win their first ring together. if they do, the league is in trouble. lebron said that boston laid the blue print on how to get a ring, which they did A BIG 3. miami goes and comprise a BIG 3. D12 and chris paul may go to the same team creatin’ a series of SUPER TEAMS, boston, maimi, and where ever paul and d12 end up.
GOD help us all if D12 goes to chicago. HAWKS WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANCE
dap01
May 24th, 2011
10:22 pm
O’Brien: You hit the nail on the head. That would be a great basis for an article by MC.
ntrigue
May 24th, 2011
10:46 pm
Am I the only one but I hate the TEague Hinrich lineup I think Teague should startand hinrich come off the bench we need him to be a floor general with the sencond unit. Maybe at times during the game depending on different situations that will happen but for a regular rotation i dont see the benefit. I’ve always said that the second unit will be a lot better with Hinrich running it. Teague’s game is more fit to play with our starters style of game play. Oh and I look forward to seeing a healthy J Smoove catching oops and blocking shots all over the place. So people stop the trade Josh Smith rumors!!! We need to pick up a perimeter player that looks to slash and attack the basket first and plays tuff defense that can run with our 2nd unit. Lastly we need another Center that can play d and block shots we should’ve tried to get Tyson Chandler. Mc where is Tyrus Thomas at?
Tn Hawk
May 24th, 2011
10:54 pm
Does anyone think Marvin can play the 2? If so:
Lineups shown in order PG, SG, SF, PF, C
Starting Five Tall Lineup: Teague, Johnson, Pickup, Horford, Zaza for rebounds or Collins for Defense
Starting Five Regular Lineup: Teague, Johnson, Pickup, Smoove, Horford
Bench: Hinrich, Williams, Wilkins, Smoove, Zaza or Collins or Horford
All we need is a legit, tough SF.
SteveW
May 24th, 2011
11:59 pm
Well Chicago lost. Hope they can hold serve in Chicago Thursday night. Maybe this series isn’t over yet. They did take it into OT.
Haslem, and now Miller have really come on and saved the Heat. Get those two going with the Big 3, and they just might win it all. We’ll see.
SteveW
May 25th, 2011
12:04 am
I’m still rooting against the Heat. The Bulls looked ok, nothing great, but the Heat just have too much firepower right now.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 25th, 2011
12:06 am
“For me, it would work fine with Sy being the 4th back court wheel. He seems to have enough handles to give us spot minutes and he looks veeeery quick and agile for his size.”
I don’t think the Hawks can realistically roll into next season expecting Pape Sy to play a meaningful role for them. I do think he has talent and can play in this league, but he has done nothing yet. Some people say that people like me are jumping the gun on Teague, but at least he started six games and played major minutes against the league’s best defense and was arguably the most consistent player on the floor, which to me is enough to negate the small sample size argument. Sy has only played in garbage time up to this point. He looked good in garbage time, and he should get every opportunity to move up the playing time ladder during summer league and preseason, but from a GM’s point of view it would be a bad move to pencil him into the rotation at this point in time.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 25th, 2011
12:06 am
Give the Heat bench players props, but really this series just comes down to the fact that both teams are evenly matched defensively but the Heat have three scorers whereas the Bulls only have one. The Bulls’ D has to do a lot more to beat the Heat than the Heat D does to beat the Bulls.
The Mavs have the physicality the Bulls have, but the depth the Bulls don’t have. I hope they can pull off the series victory in the Finals. As far as I’m concerned both of these conference finals series are over. The Thunder are a young team and understandably are probably crushed after that Game 4 loss to the point where there’s no realistic way they can win 3 straight games. The Bulls are not quite as young but I think they probably realize at this point that they can’t score enough to beat Miami.
SteveW
May 25th, 2011
12:06 am
Vava74 – I wish I shared your optimism. Until LD shows me something in the regular season, I see a sub .500 year coming on. Hope I’m wrong.
Grandad
May 25th, 2011
12:07 am
Tn Hawk
No on Marv playing the [2].
Also noto Marv playing:
the {1], [3], [4], [5], 6th man,
or 7-15.
In other words Marv should be 16th man.
I’ll be even more blunt…we are only allowed to carry 15.
Marv needs to wear another uniform in another city.
But whatever team he ends up on, No, he cannot play the [2].
Marv needs training wheels to walk.
I’ll stop for now; but I’ve got more !
Grandad
May 25th, 2011
12:13 am
noto means no to in English.
the {1] should be [1}...not really...[1]
ILL-Logical
May 25th, 2011
12:17 am
For all of the Joe is untadeable alcolytes; I am willing to bet that a certain midwestern team would love to have a veteran ,proven scorer to take some of the pressure off of their super star point guard.
Wabe
May 25th, 2011
12:28 am
Good point about JJ on the boards. I just think this needs to be demanded more from JJ by coach.
Truth is, for a guy that’s 6-7 with the body JJ has as a 2-gaurd, he plays pretty soft. He could really line up at the 3 with no problem, but he still comes up soft. Sure, he can bang with guys on the block because he tends to have the size advantage. But, again, I just think he’s soft. His style of play is soft. He doesn’t draw whistles, he doesn’t grab boards, he’s too busy taking 20+ seconds off the shotclock to find his own shot when he’s controlling the rock and then he chucks up floaters in the lane. Nothing wrong with the floaters when they’re falling, and they tend to fall at a decent clip, but for a guy with JJ’s size, it’s amazing to see him constantly fall back to this floater. You wanna see the dude attack and draw contact. If JJ could get to the line half the times that most of these other “superstars” are getting to the line, maybe somewhere around 8-10 times a game, it’d up his output. I’m not asking him to be at the level of guys like we see that are still left in the playoffs – the LBJ’s/Wades/Dirks/Roses. He’ll never be that type of player or get that type of recognition. But, a more aggressive personality on the court would suit his game better. He’s got the size to do it, he’s got the talents to do it, he just doesn’t have the instincts/mentality to do it.
But it’d help the Hawks a lot if he did could bring some toughness to the table. He just doesn’t come off tough. Not drawing fouls makes one think he shys away from contact. Not grabbing boards at a higher clip again makes one think he shys away from contact. Might not be 100% accurate, but the numbers speak for themselves. He needs to up his physicality a bit out there. Up his aggressiveness.
bjrufino
May 25th, 2011
12:32 am
let’s sign nick young, he has to ability to replace the scoring punch that jamal provides, sign oden, trade josh for micheal beasly and wayne ellington
Horford is the Hawks problem
May 25th, 2011
12:38 am
Horford is the pink elephant on the Hawks roster. If Horford wants to cry about not wanting to play center, then he needs to score more points. Horford really needs to be a player than can score close to 20 points a night. For all the slack Josh Smith gets on his shot selection, he was the most efficient Hawks scorer from 2 pts in the playoffs. As a matter of fact only Lebron, DWade, Bosh, Leuol Dang and Derrick Rose was more efficient at scoring from 2 points in the playoffs with as many shots as Josh. Horford’s points production as historically slumped in the playoffs while Josh doesn’t. If Horford can’t figure out how to score with his back to the basket, what makes him such a good PF? And he couldn’t handle Boozer or Noah. If Josh can score 15-17 points a night in this current system, I wonder what he could do if Larry Drew actually design plays for him around the basket. The Hawks don’t need a center, they need another 20 point scorer to start alongside JJ. If you don’t believe me you should note the Bulls (supposedly best defense in the league) has lost every playoff game this season when the opposing team as 2 or more 20 point scorers.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 25th, 2011
12:41 am
The Bulls would surely love to have Joe on their team, but they don’t have much in the way of valuable assets to offer the Hawks in return. They won’t give up Noah, and some combination of Asik/Gibson/Brewer/very late 1st round picks is nowhere near equal value.
dj dascorpian
May 25th, 2011
12:44 am
No one wants to be the guy who volunteers to do “dirty work” for sorry players, who don’t even have a heart to rebound. “Blue collar guys” just won’t cut it. That’s because they somehow knowing that a highly paid overrated player like J.J. espoused that kind of bull@3it. Who or what coach is going to make his tired arse hustle for loose balls. His contract is set. There has to be some sort of accountability.
VOL
May 25th, 2011
12:54 am
MC. Can or will the Hawks be players for Dwight Howard? Should they be? What would it take to get it done in your opinion?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 25th, 2011
1:02 am
Ask Orlando who they would want between Joe, Smoove, and Al, throw in five first round picks and Kirk’s expiring contract, and hope Chicago or LA doesn’t trump the Hawks’ offer.
Grandad
May 25th, 2011
1:03 am
Teague -&- Cap’n Kirk in the back-court,
Joe at the [3],
trade Al or Josh…..
on and on it goes.
We / Us / MC – included are trying to fit the proverbial
misshapen pegs into the woebegotten holes.
[woebegotten is not a real word, I just made it up]
(sounds real though…huh)
I’m convinced that our team needs these priorities to challenge
for a championship: (not necessarily in order)
(1) Owner[s] and GM which will promote a championship culture.
(2) A qualified coach
(3) Two -legit- 7 ftrs. [that are also legit players] *defenders*
(4) Players who rebound (the 7 ftrs hopefully)
and a commitment to rebounding,
plus, find one player who lives to rebound…[..Faried..] perhaps.
[5] Develop an attitude of toughness & a warrior mentality.
[6] Quoting MC; a single minded purpose of having a:
” Defense 1st Mentality ”
** Not a necessity but my supposition only;
would be to conduct a sweeping comprehensive search
for a trade partner or even a menage a trois with two teams
for the purpose of trading Joe.
Not Josh, not Al, but Joe;
and it really has nothing to do with his salary.
*** Try and get back into the 1st round.
Somewhere between 12 -&- 20 if possible.
Two picks if possible.
Singleton & Faried would go a long way toward reaching
the goals I set forth up above.
**** Trade Marv
***** Sign preferrably Ajinca / -&- / or / Hamady N’Diaye
I’m Done, G’nite !
Reddjonn68
May 25th, 2011
1:14 am
It has to be said, our guys are lazy & need a kick in the butt. Teague & Hinrich give 100 % when put on the floor, but I don’t kow if playing them together is the answer, the other Hawk players act like they are the Alanta Spirit ownership group…uninterested & lacidasical. JJ is a non factor as a leader & Smoove is in another world when it comes to teamwork.This team will never challenge the East contenders….Sund must go, start fresh & go with Teague as a starting block!
Worldwide Clyde
May 25th, 2011
1:24 am
DWade had more blocks at the 2 guard position than Al Horford.
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2011
1:29 am
“If Josh can actually play to his strengths he’ll be our only All Star next season.” – Fundamentals
This.
I’d say it’s easy to imagine at this point that Joe Johnson will play out all 6 years of his current contract at $20m per season and not receive one single All-NBA vote for the entire duration. If All-NBA Al really refuses to play center, we may have seen his last All-NBA vote as well. He does not stand out nearly as much as a PF.
superiorblogman
May 25th, 2011
1:48 am
Teague/Kirk/Earl Watson (minimum)
Joe/Justin Holiday (draft)/Pape
Josh/Marvin/Damien
Al/Reggie Evans (MLE)/ Chris Wilcox (minimum)
Fesenko(minimum)/Zaza/Jason Collins (minimum)
Worst case scenario we still need a Center
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2011
1:51 am
“Josh had 67 free throw attempts for the playoffs. Our two All Stars Horford and Joe combined for 68 free throw attempts. Which guy is uncoachable?” – Rod
Made me want to choke Shultz when I read that article. Josh will be an All-Star this year (quite possibly the Hawks’ only All-Star as Fundamentals said). Hopefully Josh learned his lesson about how things can change in the postseason. In the regular season, he had a better 3-point percentage than Joe. In the playoffs, Joe shot 42% from three while Josh’s percentage plunged to 12%.
Worldwide Clyde
May 25th, 2011
2:01 am
From Jeff Shultz article:
“Al Horford won’t be traded because he’s the team’s most consistent player.”
SHAKING MY GOT DAM HEAD
Worldwide Clyde
May 25th, 2011
2:03 am
Where was Horford during the Chicago series?
superiorblogman
May 25th, 2011
2:18 am
Yeah Grandad: I agree we should trade Joe.
Joe and Zaza to Portland for Gerald Wallace, Brandon Roy and #21 pick
Portland gets rid of Roy’s contract and get a big in Zaza, we get a defender, energy guy, and rebounder at the SF position in Gerald Wallace. We then pick Marshon Brooks to replace Joe.
PG Teague
SG Marshon Brooks
SF Gerald Wallace
PF Josh Smith
C Al
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2011
2:32 am
“Man, this is a tough crowd for optimism.” – MC
No sir! Here’s my list of things to be optimistic about for next season:
1. The Hawks do not re-sign Jamal Crawford.
Point blank, this guy doesn’t guard anybody, and against elite defense he is nowhere to be found on offense (see CHI series). Letting JC1 walk is addition by subtraction. It instantly improves the Hawks’ team defense and the Hawks have plenty of other scorers who can take his shots while playing competent defense at the other end.
2. Teague plays starters minutes.
Teague already has chemistry with Kirk (because they are both team players, not stat-obsessed, defensively-questionable jump shooters like JJ and JC1… imagine that… ). He showed against DRose that he can guard the league’s fastest point guard without embarassing himself, and he’s a decent scorer. His emergence raises the Hawks’ prospects substantially. With a year under his belt running the show, the Hawks will have their best opportunity to advance to the ECF since 1987.
3. Josh Smith will be an All-Star next season.
He will look at how his jump shot tailed off in the post season and resume playing to his strengths. It’s the season before his contract year so he knows he needs to step it up. He knows that standing outside shooting jump shots kept him out of the All-Star game last year. This is Josh Smith’s time. This will be his best season as a Hawk.
4. Sund will let Josh Powell walk.
The Mike Bibby trade showed that Sund understands that his only means to influence LD’s player rotations is by what players he makes available to LD. By taking Bibby out of the equation, Sund put the Hawks in position to challenge CHI in the second round. Sund may be an average GM, but he knows that LD’s deployment of JC1 and Powell when better players were available cost the Hawks a shot at the ECF this year. Powell will not be back and LD will be forced to give Zaza those minutes.
5. Drew will get better.
Yes, you read it here first, folks. LD is a decent x’s and o’s coach and this was his first experience as an NBA head coach in the playoffs having his player rotations questioned by national media. I think he will tighten it up and be assisted by Sund’s personnel moves this offseason. Maybe he’ll even get a clue and start Zaza at center, giving the Hawks much-needed toughness.
Given Al’s determination to play PF, I don’t see how moving JJ to SF works. You’ve already got Josh and Marvin there, and Marvin’s contract isn’t going to be easy to move. Teague, Hinrich will be one of the best 3-guard rotations in the league next year. We don’t need a 3-Small Forward rotation.
E43
May 25th, 2011
2:41 am
Ill take the three guard lineup on any day as long as Al is at the 4. Until then its just beating around the bush in my opinion.
Magic Johnson
May 25th, 2011
3:38 am
Al Horford, Marvin Williams, and Hinrich must be traded for
Teague+Johnson+Smith+Horford+Bogut to be contenders.
Al Thornton+Gooden+Pachulia
Assuming you trade Joe to make a play for Howard, altho he claims to hate the Hawks franchise.
Marvin has played his best games as a tall catch and shoot 2.
However, Marvin Williams will not be defended by 2s unless the 3 is Josh Smith or someone physical that occupies the 3.
Smith is too heavy to be the 3. Lose weight and we’ll talk. However, Smith playing the 3 as Smith said is controversial because it means financially restructuring the team.
Magic Johnson
May 25th, 2011
3:57 am
edit:
Al Horford, Marvin Williams, and Hinrich for starters Sanders, Bogut, Gooden, Salmons
starters:
Bogut+Sanders+Smith+Johnson+Teague
bench: John Salmons+sg/pg/sf+Al Thornton+Gooden+Pachulia
-Salmons a big pg that would have punished Rose next to Joe, we could have been in the ECF
blue collar team that gives Teague pnR and iso finishers in Smith, Sanders, and Joe spotting up for 3s. Smith has worked on his post game where he gets fouls and FTA. James Worthy played the 3, Adrian Dantley played the 3, Smith can play the 3. Who can guard him when he has speed in the playoffs? only Lebron and maybe Deng but Carmelo, Pierce and others struggle with his quick spins and strength in the post.
This is the tough change that needs to be made.
Magic Johnson
May 25th, 2011
4:07 am
“Does anyone else find it dissapinting that Al has turned into Mr. softie? I mean, you got [6′9] Joel Anthony in the post snagging rebounds and blocking shots.”
everyone thought the Heat overpaid for Anthony but i’ve always liked him as a tough role player who plays bigger than his size.
Joel Anthony 7′4 wingspan, 6′9, 260 lbs,
Al Horford 7′0.75 wingspan, 6′9.75, 245 lbs
Anthony has better defensive size than Al. His touch and balance on shots seems to suffers bcuz of wingspan.
superiorblogman
May 25th, 2011
5:01 am
Honestly we should be trading Joe but I think we can get more for Al or Josh. I would trade Al or Josh to the Cavs for the #4 pick and Varaejo. I would then trade the #4 pick,2011-12 2nd rd pick,2012-13 1st rd pick to the Twolves for the #2 pick.
Pick Derrick Williams with #2 overall pick
Teague/Hinrich/Earl Watson
Joe/Marcus Thorton/Pape
Derrick Williams/Marvin Williams/Gary Flowers
Al/Reggie Evans/Chris Wilcox
Varaejo/Zaza/Fesenko
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2011
5:13 am
“And the 7 we have do not give us enough ammunition to ‘compete’ for a ECF appearance.” – KevinM
I completely disagree. I believe we could have been in the ECF *RIGHT NOW* if Larry Drew had simply played Zaza instead of Powell, Crawford and Collins. Marvin’s drop in production was proportional to his drop in minutes during the playoffs. Next year JC1’s 30 minutes per game (regular season and playoffs) will be redistributed among more complete players.
In Game 6 Drew started Collins and the Hawks immediately went down 8 as the Bulls attacked Collins with quicker big men. Have you noticed Boozer doesn’t look nearly as good against Bosh as he did against Collins? To compound his failure, Drew then subbed in Jamal Crawford for Teague and let him run the point. By the end of the first quarter of Game 6, the Hawks were in a double-digit hole they never dug out of.
In each game of the series against the Bulls, the team that won the first quarter won the game. Drew showed an inability to make adjustments and abandon failed strategies. If he had simply started Zaza and not played JC1 any minutes at point guard we might be in the ECF as I type this.
“Collins/Sy/Damien/Sy – do you see anyone that is critical to retain?”
I wouldn’t call any of them critical but Collins is useful if he is deployed only for the single function his diminished abilities can serve… guarding Dwight Howard. The reason he can guard Dwight Howard but can’t guard Boozer is because Howard has no face-the-basket game. He has to power his way to the basket and Collins is stout enough and plays good enough position defense to get in his way, draw charges and force turnovers. Starting Collins against CHI’s big men who all have face-up games is absurd.
Damien is the player on that list I would most like to retain because of his defensive ability and hustle. He and Zaza bring a toughness to the Hawks that is sorely lacking.
“Contrary to what Jeff Schultz and the people at Peachtree Hoops think, Al should not be untouchable when it comes to trade discussion.” – Najeh
Co-sign. Al is actually our most attractive trade asset. You will never get value for Josh because he’s so talented but there are too many questions about his attitude. Some writer with ESPN tweeted that teams low-balled the Hawks with offers for Josh when they dangled him for trades this year.
Meanwhile, All-NBA Al is a two-time All-Star with a value contract. He has zero character issues and is highly overrated. Best trade chip we have.
STRETCH
May 25th, 2011
6:13 am
The following scenario was generated by ESPN’s Trade Machine, and could be mutually beneficial for both sides:
Lakers receive: PF Josh Smith, PG Kirk Hinrich, F Magnum Rolle
Hawks receive: PF Lamar Odom, SF Ron Artest, PG Steve Blake, SF Luke Walton
But only time will tell if the two teams are interested in teaming up for a deal.
STRETCH
May 25th, 2011
6:15 am
Artest might be a reach, but gotta like Lamar at PF and Blake as a servicable PG.
STRETCH
May 25th, 2011
6:25 am
I would probably try and hold on to Hinrich and send Williams to the Lakers, but thats only in a perfect world.
Jose
May 25th, 2011
6:54 am
Not much hope. Old African saying: “When the lead cow limps, the rest of the herd never reaches the destination”. From ownership, management and coaching. How about JJ as the Hawks leader, is he? Who decided that JJ is worth $120,000,000? We need help from top to bottom. Surgery won’t help. OVERHAUL from ownership to management, and someone with eyes to see that JJ is not a leader and neither is Josh as good as he thinks. I thought we were headed somewhere, I was very wrong.
terrell
May 25th, 2011
7:07 am
It was “increasingly clear’ to me that Marvin belonged on the bench years ago. You can only live off “potential” for so long. Get rid off this dude already. lol
O'Brien
May 25th, 2011
7:54 am
Buddy Grizzard,
Josh will be an All-Star this year (quite possibly the Hawks’ only All-Star as Fundamentals said)..
So you think Josh will finally get it in his 8th year? I dont think so. Despite Josh’s declining FG % all season, that didnt stop him from taking a bunch of 3’s and long jumpers in the playoffs. I think this offseason, he will work on his jumpers again, and still take them next year.
O'Brien
May 25th, 2011
7:59 am
terrell,
Rod from CP has been calling out Marvin and the organization from way back (BK for drafting him #2, and Rick for giving him a 5 year $37.5 mil contract). And now Marvin is proving Rod right.
Somebody should send Marvin some of Rod’s posts, and maybe that will motivate Marvin to improve his game this offseason.