Atlanta Hawks: Status quo as CBA sorted out
Sorry for the lack of posts the last couple days, blog people. I’ve been laid up sick after I made a major miscalculation and didn’t initiate my proven NyQuil Strategy at the first sign of trouble.
The Hawks had some meetings before Rick Sund headed off for Chicago but they weren’t detailed discussions about the team’s direction. The Hawks essentially are on the sidelines waiting to see what happens with the CBA. It’s hard for them to make plans that could become moot under the new rules.
ASG’s talks with a potential buyer for the team don’t seem to be affecting the basketball operations side of the organization. The key line in the story by the AJC’s Tim Tucker’s: “[A] deal is not close and that it’s far from assured one will get done.”
So it’s business as usual for the Hawks–or at least it would be if not for the uncertainty about the CBA. I wish I had more for you but everything is pretty much on hold right now.
In the meantime here are links to stories from the last couple days so you can tell me why I’m wrong:
- Teague got caught up in the sexual assault allegations by the former Wake Forest student. In a “Today” show segment, the woman accused Teague of pushing her in the bathroom where a teammate allegedly sexually assaulted her. But the Miami police report does not indicate that the woman told investigators Teague pushed her, nor do the cops list Teague as an alleged offender.
- Here are my player-by-player review capsules that appeared in the AJC today.
- Here are my five reasons to be optimistic about your Hawks that will appear in tomorrow’s AJC.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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378 comments Add your comment
Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2011
7:55 pm
The Rick Sund Glue Factory Committee would like to commend the Atlanta Hawks organization for providing the Old Horse a one-year contract extension per our recommendation. The Committee recognizes that Sund has put the Hawks in the best possible position to win next year on the basis of talent acquired, having retained Joe Johnson, drafted Jeff Teague and traded for Kirk Hinrich.
The Committee fully expects that Sund will, if necessary, continue to save Las Vegas Lame Duck Larry Drew by declining to resign Josh Powell, widely regarded as the worst player in the NBA, and declining to extend a washed-up Jamal Crawford.
The Committee further recommends that the Hawks Organization now take the opportunity to sh1t can Lame Duck and hire Dwayne Casey, the Old Horse’s original preference. Lame Duck Larry has demonstrated in front of a national TV audience that he is such a pathetic excuse for a coach that he can’t even properly employ ECF-level talent when provided with it.
To wit: Josh Powell first big man off the bench? All-NBA Al sat for an entire half of a playoff game with Sund’s and Lame Duck’s jobs on the line? Starting Jason Collins against CHI’s fast, athletic big men? Subbing out Teague in Game 6 to let Jamal Crawford run point and put the Hawks in an insurmountable double-digit first quarter deficit? Leaving Jamal Crawford in for the entire fourth quarter on a 1-for-9 shooting night while Zaza, with the best +/- of any Hawk in the playoffs, sits the entire 4th?
The committee considers the case against Hollinger, Bradley and Big Ray-endorsed Las Vegas Lame Duck Larry Drew to be open and shut. Having locked the Hawks into the current personnel for the foreseeable future, the only additional move Sund can make at this point to improve the team would be to fire Lame Duck and sign an actual, professional-level NBA head coach.
Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2011
8:04 pm
Meant to say “continue to save Las Vegas Lame Duck Larry Drew FROM HIMSELF…” as per Sund’s trade of Bibby for addition by subtraction, since Drew would have started Bibby all the way to a first round exit if the Hawks made it that far.
Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2011
8:08 pm
Your Five Reasons to be Optimistic link goes to A look back at the 2010-11 Hawks.
PS great work covering the Hawks all year.. I can’t always catch the games so I rely on your great coverage.
Than
May 19th, 2011
8:09 pm
HAHA AWESOME I LOVE DA HAWKSSSSSSSS. IM A HUGE FAN. I HOPE WE TRADE JAMAL+MARVIN FOR A BIG BOY CENTER THAT CAN PLAY DEFENSE/REBOUND/SCORE
O'Brien
May 19th, 2011
8:24 pm
MC,
Let’s keep it real. Even if there was no upcoming CBA issues, Rick Sund would sit around all offseason, only to end up signing 2 or 3 vet min guys, watch Jamal sign with somebody else because he is out of our price range, and then say the Hawks are one of only “X” teams to make it to the second round three seasons in a row, so only minor tweaks are needed.
Grandad
May 19th, 2011
8:26 pm
*[reposted from last blog]
I sure hope we don’t get that soft ass Mark Gasol as a FA.
7-1, 265 lbs and only avg 7 rebs durin’ the reg season.
Okay, okay, you say he avg 11 durin’ the post season !
So now he’s mean, tough, hombre ?
Obviously he converted;
had an epiphany.
Will he stay epiphanized…..or will he go the way of Al ?
Or, maybe the play-offs were a fluke?
(21 game sample)
maybe he really is deep down a soft ass?
Al’s career;
always been a fan favorite.
Until that villain Blake Griffin took him down.
(remember how we gushed when he rose up to hit those FT’s)
How about as late as Jan 28th when he had 14 rebs -vs- Amare?
Including;
19 pts on “only” 12 shots, 6 assts, 1 key blk -v- Amare late.
What did we think of Al that night?
Then he just woke up one morning and said;
” I think I shall become a sissy ” !
Well, so much for al’s epiphany !
Oh, by the way, Al is 24 yrs old will be 25 in June.
Gasol is already 26 as of last Jan.
In case you were gonna say Gasol is young.
* clue…..I never could distinct between the two?
Top Gun
May 19th, 2011
8:27 pm
Hawks have got to get a big that does not mind getting dirty. Doing the things that don’t show up in the stats but helps the team win. We don’t need more jump shooters…we need blue collar workers, those players that will hustle back down on defense and dive on the floor for the loose balls.
Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2011
8:28 pm
“Drew’s tactical decisions, especially his defensive schemes against Orlando, worked more times than not.” – MC
I see we’re going to have to update LD’s nickname. He is henceforth Hollinger, Bradley, Big Ray and MC-endorsed Las Vegas Lame Duck Larry Drew. I know he’s your boy after the way you jumped to diffuse the story about an ex-Hawk describing his preparation as a joke. But nobody can look at the tactical mistakes he made in the playoffs and label him anything other than an amateur.
RealSquawk
May 19th, 2011
8:29 pm
MC time flies.
It has been a great year thanks for covering everything.
I can’t remember if this is your first or second season covering the Hawks, but I think this is the second year you have been covering the Hawks maybe three iono…
time flies congratulations on another great year.
Grandad
May 19th, 2011
8:36 pm
O’B;
Sund lacks:
cleverness, imagination, ingenuity, inspiration,
inventiveness, originality, and vision.
-Plus-
He lacks:
the ability to / the want to / the care to / or the know how;
to …” develop a winning culture” … !
Sautee
May 19th, 2011
8:38 pm
Buddy Grizzard,
Did you ever go back and accuse Big Ray of using a straw man?
Oh yeah, I forgot, you don’t know what it means. Sorry, forget I asked.
Funny how as soon as Ray started asking questions that defused your position, you inexplicably disappeared.
Endorsed, my ass. You can post that all you want. It’s your right. And it’s my right to call you out for trying to say I used a straw man when it was clear you didn’t have a clue what it was, or how to use it. Keep it up and I will too. Or not, whatever.
Grandad
May 19th, 2011
8:51 pm
Buddy Grizzard
Let’s get one thing straight;
I’m not an LD supporter.
Plus, *until lately, I’ve been a critic of MC on occasion.
*[northcyde has disacknowledged his previous groupie status]
LD is a master tactician compared with his predecessor.
* In game adjustments was one of his few strengths.
** Discounting his [..two foul..] rule.
Let us not pile on Mr Drew.
I prefer a new Coach as well.
Surely you will come up with some negative examples
to prove your point.
There are much larger issues with Mr Drew.
Grandad
May 19th, 2011
8:58 pm
I didn’t finish one thought from above:
*** Mr Cunningham is fair & square ***
I have his back on that one;
whether it’s a player, LD, we bloggers, or whomever !
Dept. of Unintended Irony
May 19th, 2011
9:05 pm
“But nobody can look at the tactical mistakes he made in the playoffs and label him anything other than an amateur.”
Nobody? I say he’s a professional coach. He coaches professional basketball players. Your statement has been invalidated. Someone looked and still called him a professional. Or maybe you are the nobody of whom you spoke?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2011
9:21 pm
Apparently the Thrashers-to-Winnipeg deal is done.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2011
9:28 pm
It’s not like there is new news (word to Killer Mike) breaking every day about the Hawks now that their season is done, so expecting a new post every day on this blog would be a little unfair anyway.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2011
9:31 pm
“Even if there was no upcoming CBA issues, Rick Sund would sit around all offseason, only to end up signing 2 or 3 vet min guys, watch Jamal sign with somebody else because he is out of our price range, and then say the Hawks are one of only “X” teams to make it to the second round three seasons in a row, so only minor tweaks are needed.”
Real talk.
Sautee
May 19th, 2011
9:48 pm
O’Brien,
Co-sign your 8:24 post. In spades. Well done.
Sautee
May 19th, 2011
9:50 pm
And whatever happened to Major – de Coverly?
O'Brien
May 19th, 2011
10:01 pm
MC,
Drew was a Hawks assistant for the previous seasons but acknowledged he “saw a different side” of his players as head coach.
“I learned even more things about them,” he said. “I will take that and look at it, and I will analyze it and go from there.”.
What I would like to know, is what did LD learn about himself? He made some questionable coaching decisions, and during the season, my impression was he blamed players for not executing his game plan, but very rarely would he take the fall for their performances.
Rev in Tampa
May 19th, 2011
11:18 pm
“What I would like to know, is what did LD learn about himself? He made some questionable coaching decisions, and during the season, my impression was he blamed players for not executing his game plan, but very rarely would he take the fall for their performances.”
OB,
You are on fire tonight. Co-sign.
KevinM
May 19th, 2011
11:27 pm
Well, what we learned this past year is Drew should no longer be compared to Phil Jackson. We saw a roller coaster season where the only thing consistent was the results were inconsistent.
Well, ASG, you get what you pay for, and we will continue to support an average GM, an average coach, and average results. You can call the 2012 Hawks as a non factor.
the truth
May 19th, 2011
11:29 pm
I Say,( FIRE) LARRY DREW. AT TIMES DURING THE SEASON AND DURING THE PLAYOFFS, HE SEEMED LOST AS WHAT TO DO IN PARTICULAR SITUATIONS. TO ME , HE SHOWED THAT HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO MOTIVATE HIS PLAYERS, HE DID NOT KNOW HOW TO PLACE HIS PLAYERS ON THE COURT, HE DID NOT EARN THE RESPECT OF THE REFEREES, HIS MENTAL STATE WAS AT TIMES QUESTIONABLE(DAHHHHHH!!!!!), SEEMED TO BE A DAY DREAMER, WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE ALERT. THE LIST GOES ON. I SAY FIND A MATURE COACH (RICK ADELEMAN) TO HANDLE JOSH, THE REST WILL FALL INTO PLACE, BECAUSE HE WON’T STAND FOR THAT TYPE OF BS BALL PLAYIN THAT THEY SHOWED THIS YEAR. BUT, MARVIN , J POWELL, ETAN THOMAS MUST GO. MARVIN IS JUST NOT A BASKETBALL PLAYER, THATS RIGHT; JOSH IS TALL, BUT (SOFT); ETAN IS SLOW AND OVER WEIGHT. SO THE HAWKS NEED DEFENSIVE MINDED REPLACEMENTS THAT ARE HUSTLERS, PHYSICAL AND NOT “”(SLOW)’”", AND GET RID OF DREW.
DNaren
May 19th, 2011
11:33 pm
I see these main issues with LD
1) Not developing your younger players/rookies
2) Little or no in game adjustments
3) No accountability(except on teague)
and werent these the biggest issues with Woodson ???
I like LD better than Woody … is it enough ??
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2011
11:45 pm
Audible “OKC” chants in Dallas at the end of the Mavs-Thunder game. But yeah, everybody keep believing the played out line that only ATL has bandwagoners and transplants.
Sautee
May 19th, 2011
11:55 pm
KevinM,
“Well, what we learned this past year is Drew should no longer be compared to Phil Jackson. ”
Kevin, I guess I missed it. Some one was seriously comparing Drew to Phil?
Are you sure it wasn’t in jest?
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2011
11:55 pm
@O’Brien: “MC, Let’s keep it real. Even if there was no upcoming CBA issues, Rick Sund would sit around all offseason, only to end up signing 2 or 3 vet min guys, watch Jamal sign with somebody else because he is out of our price range, and then say the Hawks are one of only “X” teams to make it to the second round three seasons in a row, so only minor tweaks are needed.”
ha . . . you say this as if you’ve seen it before. but even if the Hawks don’t want to spend the money they could make trades if things were clearer with the CBA.
UGA
May 20th, 2011
12:01 am
MC:
Is it likely the Hawks make a deal before the draft?
Who are some lower end Vets that would be good for us to look at in your opinion?
Thanks
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:06 am
@Buddy Grizzard: “I see we’re going to have to update LD’s nickname. He is henceforth Hollinger, Bradley, Big Ray and MC-endorsed Las Vegas Lame Duck Larry Drew. I know he’s your boy after the way you jumped to diffuse the story about an ex-Hawk describing his preparation as a joke. But nobody can look at the tactical mistakes he made in the playoffs and label him anything other than an amateur.”
diffuse the story? i just tried to put the quotes of an anonymous player in context. i would do the same thing if, for instance, an anonymous player said: “Drew is the best coach in the league.” but you would have less of a problem with my so-called “diffusion” of that quote because it would bolster your opinion.
if he’s “my boy,” as you say, then i would never criticize him at all. if you’ve been reading my stuff you know that’s not true.
you’ve cherry-picked one positive thing i have to say in what otherwise could be construed as a negative critique of Drew and use it to impeach me. this suggests that you have a hostile reaction to anything positive at all said about Drew. that’s an emotional analysis, not a rational one. it’s unconcerned with balance or reason. that’s fine for you but not my thing.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:08 am
@RealSquawk: “MC time flies. It has been a great year thanks for covering everything. I can’t remember if this is your first or second season covering the Hawks, but I think this is the second year you have been covering the Hawks maybe three iono… time flies congratulations on another great year.”
thanks, i appreciate it. i was hired in January 2010.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:13 am
@O’Brien: “What I would like to know, is what did LD learn about himself? He made some questionable coaching decisions, and during the season, my impression was he blamed players for not executing his game plan, but very rarely would he take the fall for their performances.”
the way i look at this is, what would Drew have to gain by publicly admitting his mistakes? coaches with more security than him don’t do that. the most important thing is that he recognize those mistakes in and learn from them even if he doesn’t talk about it publicly. i’m not sure if learned from his errors or not but maybe there will be more self-reflection and evaluation now that the season is over. or maybe feedback from his bosses will force him to reconsider some of his decisions.
JDK
May 20th, 2011
12:15 am
MC: Your write-up was one thing, but do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that we should be optimistic about this team? One decent playoff run (peppered with a few typical blowouts, I might add) does not a season make.
Haven’t you seen enough of this too often passionless, mishmash-ed bunch to expect anything but the worst?
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:20 am
@UGA: MC: “Is it likely the Hawks make a deal before the draft?”
i don’t think so. i think teams are reluctant to make deals until they know the new rules.
“Who are some lower end Vets that would be good for us to look at in your opinion?”
i haven’t really looked closely at the free agents yet but will do so for a future blog post.
UGA
May 20th, 2011
12:21 am
I think the Hawks should be optimistic. I was just hoping to give Orlando a good series and then we beat them in 6. If we had Hinrich against the Bulls, who knows what may have happened. Now we know Teague can play too. If we can upgrade our second unit to something similar to the Bulls, we will be ok. This is much better than the days of 13 wins!
UGA
May 20th, 2011
12:22 am
Thank you, look forward to that blog.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
May 20th, 2011
12:32 am
I am so tired of all things mediocre. Mediocre management, coaching, and effort leads to mediocre results. Mediocre superstar players underachieving leads to mediocre scoring averages.
Hate to see a brotha lose his job (I said the same about Woody) but if each of the ASG had a pair they would can this Las Vegas Lame Duck Larry guy and hire someone of significance…of conscience.
Obrien, Buddy Grizzard myself and others are all shouting the emperor has no clothes on or better yet, his suits are too big for him. I guess most are resigned to this guy leading the Hawks ship through the troubled waters. The head-coaching waters are too deep for him. We need a Posiedon to man this ship. Chicago hired one. Boston, I presume, resigned one. Have the Hawks ever had one? Does Lenny Wilkens qualify as one?
Major de`Coverly
May 20th, 2011
12:33 am
Mr. Sautee kind sir
I am still around I must keep an eye on brigadierJerry
with him beong navy and all. mostly I read the blog
to amuse miself and post whem i’m nothing else to do.
in my nind the hawsks had a goodyear and are still
headded in the rite direction. i wish marvin was better
fitted. I hop we kake a trade and get kevin olsen from
minnisotta are the guy bwith a beard from thunder.
In the draft iI hope we can get a russian because they
are meaner than college boys or other euro players.
thanks for checking on me.
PS mr irony – I don’t type good.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:35 am
@JDK: “MC: Your write-up was one thing, but do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that we should be optimistic about this team? One decent playoff run (peppered with a few typical blowouts, I might add) does not a season make. Haven’t you seen enough of this too often passionless, mishmash-ed bunch to expect anything but the worst?”
ha . . . nicely put.
well, first understand that i’m coming at this from an analytical perspective. i completely understand why fans don’t want to put much faith in this team. they are frustrating and hard for you to trust.
i expected the worst for the playoffs because i didn’t think this was a group that could mail it and then flip the switch. but they did it and surprised me and lots of others. last year this team was criticized for its playoff collapse after a very good regular season. now i think a pretty good playoff run shouldn’t be totally discounted because of what was an uninspiring season.
i think the things mentioned in my write-up are legit reasons for optimism. of course there are also reasons to be pessimistic, some of which you mention here.
Wabe
May 20th, 2011
12:43 am
So the Thrashers are officially gone.
Now, if only ASG could get the Hawks off their books and into someone’s hands who would put some real effort into getting this team places the fans wanna see them.
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
12:55 am
Enter your comments here
Buddy Grizzard
May 20th, 2011
12:57 am
Sautee,
Do you feel the need to go on basketball fan blogs to try and prove your superior reasoning ability? A straw man is when you change someone’s argument to something absurd, then attack the absurdity (the straw man) as if you were attacking the actual argument. An example would be when you equated my labeling of Big Ray’s remarks concerning the impact of LD’s coaching to an athlete who was almost killed while working out “endorsing” the barbell that almost killed him.
Instead of engaging in an effort to prove to all of us that you got an A in Philosophy 101 at your community college, why don’t you try attacking some of my actual arguments?
JDK
May 20th, 2011
1:01 am
MC: Thanks for the response, and keep up the good work. Believe me, I wish I could be optimistic!
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
1:02 am
5 reasons to optimistic about the Hawks next year:
1. Al will find a low post game
2. Josh will find a mid-range jumpshot
3. Marvin will be traded
4. JC1 will walk
5. ISO will find his perimeter game and shoot 50% plus for the season!
Dream on Slimjr
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
1:04 am
A serious query for Buddy Grizzard:
Are you any kin to Lewis ?
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
1:04 am
AllStar-Al for DeAndre Jordan
Worldwide Clyde
May 20th, 2011
2:13 am
FIRE SUND
Buddy Grizzard
May 20th, 2011
2:59 am
“LD is a master tactician compared with his predecessor.” – Grandad
I agree, but he’s not as good with people. Woody got Smoove to take 200 fewer three pointers the previous season. Lame Duck Larry doesn’t have the players’ backs, and they don’t have his. Bad situation. I’ve been saying all year go look at NBA Playbook and look at the latest game winning play drawn up by Lame Duck and broken down by Sebastian Pruitti.
LD has X’s and O’s no question. But can he motivate players? Can he get them to play hard and play the right way? Or do they not trust him because his rotations are based on his own sense of entitlement, not on who is producing?
Buddy Grizzard
May 20th, 2011
2:59 am
Grandad yes, Lewis was my third cousin, but I never got to meet him. I grew up a fan just like everybody else in Atlanta.
Sautee
May 20th, 2011
3:21 am
Buddy Grizzard,
Do you really want me to dredge up the posts where I attacked your “actual arguments”? That can easily be done, but it might prove too traumatic for you. Your logic in those arguments was laughably weak and I tried to show you how silly you sounded. I’m glad that you now have a glimmer as to what a straw man is. You certainly didn’t before. But to try and say now that my example of Stefan Johnson’s sad accident was a straw man when I NEVER struck that argument down, (as one does with a straw man) shows me that you still misunderstand the use of a straw man, And that you were, and are more interested in saving face, than in defending your position.
MC said it well. You overreact in a hostile and emotional fashion to any mention of positive things regarding Larry Drew. Your suggestion that Big Ray “endorsed” LD when he obviously did not is a clear example of this. And when Ray came back with questions for you on his blog that you couldn’t answer and still defend your prevarications, you disappeared. Saving face again?
If your defense of your arguments is that important to you, why not go back to Ray’s blog and answer him?
Buddy, this is a good blog, and we don’t need unsupportable allegations. I don’t wish to spend all my energy defending the sanctity of this room. I’d much rather that you just understood the need to keep it real. But if you insist on spreading BS, I’ll come back at you. Every time.
superiorblogman
May 20th, 2011
3:29 am
Status quo is all Sund has brought. Re-signing Bibby, Zaza, Marvin, Joe, Josh, and Al. Seriously this foolishness went much farther than the true core which is Joe, Josh, and Al. You can add Teague to the core now that we all see what he can do when given the oppurtunity. To post something about status quo around here and not expect negative comments is just silly.
Fire LD
Fire Sund
ASG sale to someone with money, which is neither of these clowns that are currently being mentioned.
Meanwhile, Sund should get off of his old sorry arse and make something happen. There are deals that can be made that do not add to your payroll.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
3:57 am
O’Brien
Word to your Mother! Call ‘Em Out – Boy.
Buddy Grizzard
May 20th, 2011
4:17 am
“that’s an emotional analysis, not a rational one. it’s unconcerned with balance or reason.” – MC
Michael I think you missed this paragraph from my post:
Josh Powell first big man off the bench? All-NBA Al sat for an entire half of a playoff game with Sund’s and Lame Duck’s jobs on the line? Starting Jason Collins against CHI’s fast, athletic big men? Subbing out Teague in Game 6 to let Jamal Crawford run point and put the Hawks in an insurmountable double-digit first quarter deficit? Leaving Jamal Crawford in for the entire fourth quarter on a 1-for-9 shooting night while Zaza, with the best +/- of any Hawk in the playoffs, sits the entire 4th?
Those are rational, unemotional and, I dare say, unarguable observations concerning demonstrably bad tactical decisions Larry Drew made in the playoffs. If the Hawks win Game 2 against Orlando, Kirk doesn’t get hurt in Game 6. It’s like when Orlando was in the finals against L.A. Remember the game when Kobe came down and hit a game-winning three and Orlando had a foul to give? Stan Van Gundy’s failure as a coach cost Orlando the best shot at a title it will probably ever have.
The window to compete for a championship closes FAST. When you have the talent to be a top 6 team in the league, it’s not the time to try and help a rookie coach hopefully find his way to one day obtaining competence.
My paragraph above lists 5 monumental tactical errors that cost the Hawks a chance for a spot in the Eastern Conference Finals. Can you name 5 GOOD tactical decisions Drew made in these playoffs to counterbalance those? He played man against Orlando and stayed on their shooters… that’s one. What about two, three, four? Blog people help MC out here.
In the meantime, I’m founding a new Committee. It’s not emotional for me because I’m already resigned to the fact that Larry will be around until the Hawks have new owners because ASG doesn’t have a clue what it takes to compete for a championship. Give $120m to the second worst shooter among active players in win-or-go-home playoff games? Hire a coach who deploys the consensus worst player in the NBA as his first big man off the bench while Zaza sits?
So allow me to introduce The Larry Drew for NBA Coach of the Year, 2011-2012 Committee. Our slogan is brought to you by the AJC’s own Michael Cunningham and Big Ray.
LARRY DREW FOR COACH OF THE YEAR!! BECAUSE:
“He’s not any dumber than his players.” – Big Ray
“He makes slightly more smart decisions than stupid ones.” – Michael Cunningham
JustAThought
May 20th, 2011
7:02 am
Oh Buddy my MAN! I hear you.
Hey MC……….just because you got a mic/recorder shoved in your face don’t mean you gotta say something. Its best to let people think you are a fool than it is to speak and confirm it. You might want to pass that on to Drew.
joe
May 20th, 2011
7:36 am
Larry Drew is just happy to have a job, he is delusional if he really said the Hawks are very close to competing for an NBA championship……… they are a miserable collection of guys that are also just collecting a check ( JJ, Marvin, most of the bench…..)
doc
May 20th, 2011
8:03 am
o’b
“What I would like to know, is what did LD learn about himself? He made some questionable coaching decisions, and during the season, my impression was he blamed players for not executing his game plan, but very rarely would he take the fall for their performances.”
that is a theme if you remember i brought up last week and how sorry i was that LD continues to say he didnt miss the boat on the teague situation. i wish instead he had fessed up to his oversight had learned something from it. how can he get josh to fess up to his issues, jj to his or al to his as captains if he cant lead by example. each of our captains had huge issues last year in leading and doing it the LD way. one of the ways that the bulls did so well was that their star and MVP point guard rose bought in to thibs and lead. sorry, i didnt see it from our leaders and maybe it was from on high.
the other issue i have with LD is, one has to wonder who got left out on the bench in addition to teague that might have performed better. honestly, the two guys who were the best and most consistent players during the playoffs were the two guys who LD seemed to use as examples and neutered during the season giving their play time away for no real good reason in zaza and teague. were there others that could have helped us given better utilization and roles during the season and into the post season besides collins?
one reason the hawks fell on their sword at the end and during the season is the lack of depth and fatigue factor. that also wore them down during the payoffs as well. they rested up came out good in the first 9-10 games like they do in the regular season and then fell on their faces to lose games 5 and 6 with the bulls pulling away. were there others overlooked mr drew?
yup, we need to hear more from LD on why he cant fess up. rev, can you help the man and get him as seat at the confessional kneeling table? confess sir and your sins can be washed clean and you can be a better coach in the process and i am not saying we need to be rid of you just yet. you have just laid the ground work for next season. if you can lead by example you might be able to pull it off and honesty with yourself is the first way to get it done..
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
8:10 am
What is The Question?
“Drew was a Hawks assistant for the previous seasons but acknowledged he “saw a different side” of his players as head coach.
“I learned even more things about them,” he said. “I will take that and look at it, and I will analyze it and go from there.”
_______________________
If this is the answer – What was the quetion?
I tried to find this entire article, to no avail. I can accept this answer, if it is put into it’s proper context. If, Larry Drew was queried, “After your first year of coaching this Hawks team, what have you learned about yourself and in retrospect what would you do differently?
Then, I would hope for a different response, one that address O’Brien’s responses.
mountain_jim
May 20th, 2011
8:12 am
MC – I also wish to express my appreciation for your excellent Hawks coverage this season.
I live in blacked-out NC and refuse to pay for League Pass, don’t have enough bandwidth to stream from the shady sources, so much of my ability to follow the season (pre-playoffs) came from this blog and its contributors.
Thanks all.
I am not optimistic that Hawks can improve without some major changes. I see all these other teams getting better while we stay the course, other than throwing away picks for (imo) unneeded players. I wish Sund was replaced. Drew I can see getting another year.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
8:22 am
An Answer!
“I learned even more things about them,” he said.
________________
To me, it sounds like Larry Drew learned something. That in and of itself, is a mouth full. We don’t know what he learned, but my guess is this:
Like any relationship, you learn things about your mate that you’d didn’t know in the “honey moon phase”. Once the glitter wears off, reality sets in and a change is about to come. You must redefine your relationship to make it grow, or to take it to another level. Everything must change, from both sides.
When you go to battle and are fighting for your life? That is when the truth is revealed. Some of these players must be moved to get to the next level, from a management perspective. See Sund. See ASKG.
You can’t cook a steak, if you don’t have a steak to cook. This team needs a talent infusion and a super star. If not? What do you really expect?
The Thrasher were sold. What’s next – Hawks? Let’s Go!
Westurd
May 20th, 2011
8:23 am
O’Brien nailed it @ 8:24
doc
May 20th, 2011
8:25 am
buddy and MC are you talking diffusing or defusing. it is confusing. heh heh
just in case:
diffusion – the process by which molecules spread from areas of high concentratiion, to areas of low concentration.
defuse – to grow less dangerous; weaken
buddy maybe you were better in math than lewis.
tanker
May 20th, 2011
8:26 am
All of those whose talking about LD with the name calling CAN ALL GO TO HELL! Everything you talk about or call LD, its back to your MOMA! SHUT THE F*** UP! That’s what wrong with this world too much haters. If all of you can do better get off your lazy no good a** and make a differenc. Again, in the meantime you all can go to HELL!
doc
May 20th, 2011
8:37 am
yes MC ot echo others, great job this season. even turned around about your only critic it seems heh heh
as far as that sh!t nyquil, try high dose vit c, high dose echinacea and zinc next time as soon as you feel anything close to your usual symptoms. your body will appreciate it and respond quickly.
as far as LD admissions, i hope that sund has asked him what i brought up here earlier today. i guess we dont need a mea culpa from him nor do we need it from al, jj and josh in the media but certainly it needs to be brought up and addressed in the exit interviews as well as goals going forward for all of those guys. if these things can be repaired, overall, with the proviso there is some bench strength, i am optimistic about this team and without crawford next year. again, if they have money to spend it would be better to get three guys instead of one, if it is a true big with a motor and two motor wing guys one to play d and the other to take the three as needed.
with depth we have a top three team in the league next year, though some may blanch, wail and flail at the idea. they have shown it for the short run and only by getting the depth can they do it going forward. wouldnt it be nice if we could get a few role players for marvin?
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
8:47 am
Doc,
After the game 2 victory, Miami’s coach said (and I’m paraphrasing) he is questioning himself, because he may have missed the boat on Haslem, by waiting so long to give Haslem an extended opportunity to impact the game.
I don’t expect LD to openly criticize himself, but everyone understands that a rookie (HC or player) will make mistakes. To me, LD just comes off as never making a wrong decision, but is quick to deflect the blame on the players for not executing.
I think he is a better X’s and O’s coach than Woody, and he is more flexible. But I still think he would be better off as an offensive coordinator, not the head guy, because he does not hold players accountable enough (except for Teague and maybe ZaZa), and he doesn’t seem able to motivate them consistently.
Geemack
May 20th, 2011
8:53 am
Hopefully Teague sues the “Today Show” for defamation of character.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
9:00 am
Doc,
if they have money to spend it would be better to get three guys instead of one.
Agreed. But the Hawks don’t have money to spend. If the Hawks start Hinrich, JJ, Marvin, Josh and Al next season, our starting lineup alone will be making ~$58 mil.
For a team that does not want to go into luxury tax, it will be difficult to improve their depth without making a trade.
We saw Thibs bench 2 starters (Boozer and Noah) for the entire 4th quarter of a playoff game. Last night we saw Scott Brooks in OKC bench 2 starters (Westbrook (all-NBA PG) and Ibaka) for the entire 4th quarter of a playoff game. If LD wants to do that (although I doubt he would), the Hawks need to give him better options (and he must utilize those options properly).
doc
May 20th, 2011
9:23 am
o’b money games will be decided with the cba until then status quo and wishful thinking. again, i am not putting my money on rick sund getting the right three guys or LD playing them based on umm past performances, if you know what i mean as i talk of a perfect “hawks world”.
coachx
May 20th, 2011
9:32 am
Possible free agents bigs:
Too expensive: T. Chandler, D. Jordan, probably S. Hawes.
Probably too expensive but possible could be had for the MLE (if there is a MLE next year)
S. Dalembert
MLE to league minimum material:
J. Pryzbilla – seemed healthy to close the season after 1.5 years of being injured.
Reggie Evans – rebounding beast at PF
K. Fensenko – Huge dude but stiff….that is what you get for the minimum
A. Gray – see above
C. Smith – bruising backup PF
J. Foster – crafty rebounding veteran
SteveW
May 20th, 2011
9:43 am
ASG’s on the cheap camp roster:
Alade Aminu
Richard Hendrix
Trey Gilder
Sergei Gladyr
Luke Jackson
Magnum Rolle
Hilton Armtstong
tom
May 20th, 2011
9:47 am
Hey MC, when are they going to get you a more custom banner for your hawks blog like D orlando has for the falcons??
bigdave
May 20th, 2011
10:11 am
Luke Jackson refuses to quit.
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
10:24 am
I’m very optomistic about next year as always. It’s good to see that Teague finally got a shot. Hinrich will come back ready and shouldn’t be as injury prone if we have options. Pape Sy looked pretty good out there, he appeared hungry, athletic and absolutely “blue collar”. If anything the Bulls series taught us the value of a real bench mob, not a collection of pieces that won’t gel.
My issues do come with decision making. Sund decides to go cheap. Hawks top 6 decide to never attack the basket. Drew never decides to hold them accountable. Drew counts on Jamal when everyone in America can see he’s having an off night…consistently.
We have very few players signed for next year. We have plenty of flexibility to get the right pieces who will rebound, attack and give our team the tenacity it needs. CBA and the sale of the Thrashers should only help us in terms of getting that type of talent inexpensively.
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
10:28 am
Amen Geemack and O’Brien
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
10:31 am
We need a Captain that actually buys into the system…not a token title. We need a leader who rises to the occassion in the playoffs. We need someone consistent who can push this team like a professional. We need someone to come back from the summer with a strong will and determination to push this team to it’s limit.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
10:42 am
Thank You!
MC
Thank You for a season for phenomenal Hawks Basketball coverage.
Your work has been stellar, informative, inciteful and very much appreciated by myself and as it seems, many, many other bloggers.
Feel better, pace yourself and hopefully next year?
A change we can believe in – is gonna’ come.
________________
Mmmmmwah!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2011
10:46 am
“All of those whose talking about LD with the name calling CAN ALL GO TO HELL! Everything you talk about or call LD, its back to your MOMA! SHUT THE F*** UP! That’s what wrong with this world too much haters. If all of you can do better get off your lazy no good a** and make a differenc. Again, in the meantime you all can go to HELL!”
LD’s granny is still around? She must be old as hell…
Rusty
May 20th, 2011
10:54 am
If they retain the lame duck,it will prove how very stupid &cheap they are . There is no justification in keeping him.
Rusty
May 20th, 2011
11:04 am
Who the hell would want him as an offensive coordinator, there was many games this team could not score the ball
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
11:04 am
Fundamentals, the captaincy that was put on our 3 guys was a huge mistake. Make note, if Sund ever decided to make a trade with 1 of the 3, the blame would be completely placed on that guy’s shoulders.
I think what you’re asking for is a #1, not a bunch of #2s and 3s.
The only way we are going to get a #1 is to rebuild through the draft.
Our shot is now….
- Cleveland has 2 slots available and can take on a captain’s contract.
- Minnesota isn’t interested in another youngster.
Kahn on ESPNU right now discussing his pick. Kahn doesn’t sound the draft is his preference this year.
I move 1 of our all-stars immediately to work with Rubio.
It’s there for the taking to get us a #1……Enes Kanter. ESPNU praising him in the workouts today. 6′11 in shoes and 260, down 10 lbs despite no basketball in a year.
Centers are working now……Draft combine in Chicago.
I hope for this despite my dismal outlook for Sund and Drew returning. When you think the door is open, here’s the ASG once again slamming opportunity on the outside of the door.
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
11:19 am
Looks like Jerry West is going to try his magic out in Golden State.
Expect some major changes there.
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
11:29 am
One more draft prospect who never finished high school for a 2nd round pick, but I wouldn’t expect him to last 48 picks…
Jeremy Tyler, who played overseas in Italy and Japan last year. He’s 6′11/245, a la DeAndre Jordan.
He might be worth the risk to go get a late 1st rounder from someone.
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
11:55 am
Why does anyone expect LD to publicly admit to anything? This is the guy who after he was hired intimated that he had the answers all along, but Woodson wouldn’t listen. Being relfective has not been a strong suit, which may suit him well as a head coach.
We all know what LD learned about his players. When he was the assistant he was Josh’s and probably Joe’s shoulder to cry on and venting platform for how Woody hurt their poor little feelings. He obviously didn’t think that the same players would treat him the same way.
you know it, I know it. Let’s stop pretending its something else.
SteveW
May 20th, 2011
11:58 am
Well the good news is Marc Gasol was a #48 pick
We have the #48 pick
So good things have happened late in the draft.
Ramon Sessions was even later than that in the 2nd round.
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
12:08 pm
I agree, I don’t see a captain coming forth? We might possibly need some sort of trade. Rubio might be nice, but I’m not sure I see him coming here? I don’t see Sund/ASG going after him when they are enamored by Teague.
I tend to like the Teague/Kirk duo and hope for a good C prospect myself. Enes looks to be a decent big. Jordan or Chandler would be good fits. I liked Emeka last year only to get bashed, but he played well along CP3. There are plenty of “blue collar” bigs who can rebound around every draft, we just don’t take on “projects”. We tend to sign folks who never quite fit in?
Would you vote that Hilton deserves a vet min for us? Is he worth a chance? I felt like he showed some toughness, D and rebounding in his short stints? He proved more effective than Powell and Etan in terms of long term chemistry here?
Cleveland liked Marvin? How much we don’t know?
MN definitely doesn’t need more youth?
JoJo the Godfather
May 20th, 2011
12:17 pm
nbadraft.net has us taking freshman Jereme Richmond out of Illinois in the second round. 6′6″- 6′7″ SF that sounds a lot like Pape Sy. Athletic, strong finisher at the rim, no jump shot or range, but could be an excellent wing defender in the nba. Only 19. Sound ok to me for such a late pick.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:20 pm
@Buddy: “Michael I think you missed this paragraph from my post: Josh Powell first big man off the bench? All-NBA Al sat for an entire half of a playoff game with Sund’s and Lame Duck’s jobs on the line? Starting Jason Collins against CHI’s fast, athletic big men? Subbing out Teague in Game 6 to let Jamal Crawford run point and put the Hawks in an insurmountable double-digit first quarter deficit? Leaving Jamal Crawford in for the entire fourth quarter on a 1-for-9 shooting night while Zaza, with the best +/- of any Hawk in the playoffs, sits the entire 4th?”
these are all things i’ve criticized Drew for repeatedly throughout the season. in fact, they are some of the things i criticized him for in the item that from which you cherry-picked one. it’not disingenuous for you to fail to acknowledge this while sarcastically suggesting i think Drew is coach of the year.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:21 pm
@JustAThought: “Hey MC……….just because you got a mic/recorder shoved in your face don’t mean you gotta say something. Its best to let people think you are a fool than it is to speak and confirm it. You might want to pass that on to Drew.”
i don’t see a specific critique anywhere in there.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
@drmaryb: “I learned even more things about them,” he said. “I will take that and look at it, and I will analyze it and go from there.”
“If this is the answer – What was the quetion?”
the question was (paraphrasing): you were the assistant coach for six seasons with these guys but did you learn new things about them, and they about you, as the head coach?
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:24 pm
@mountain_jim: ‘MC – I also wish to express my appreciation for your excellent Hawks coverage this season.”
thanks much
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
12:24 pm
MC – don’t sweat it buddy. We who blog here know your take? Focus on the draft, on who we’ll get and what’s really happening, not on lame rants.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:24 pm
@drmaryb: “MC Thank You for a season for phenomenal Hawks Basketball coverage.”
thanks to you and the rest of my blog people for reading.
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:25 pm
@doc: “yes MC ot echo others, great job this season. even turned around about your only critic it seems heh heh”
thanks . . . i would start to worry if i had no critics.
“as far as that sh!t nyquil, try high dose vit c, high dose echinacea and zinc next time as soon as you feel anything close to your usual symptoms. your body will appreciate it and respond quickly.”
noted . . .
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:25 pm
@tom: “Hey MC, when are they going to get you a more custom banner for your hawks blog like D orlando has for the falcons??”
man, don’t get me started. they’ve been talking about that since they hired me.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
12:26 pm
Naming 3 captains out of 5 starters (and 15 total players) made no sense from the start. Football teams dont even have 3 captains, and there are 53 men on the roster. And it doesnt help when all 3 captains have different answers after a game. So who should the players listen to?
We need one band, one sound. So even if all 3 captains are back next season, I hope LD lets the team vote for one captain.
doc
May 20th, 2011
12:28 pm
dmb, though it could be inciteful, was it insight you were looking for? the only person that got too terribly inciteful was grandad and now buddy with mc’s work. a little irony at work today and diffusing out amongst the minions, or was it defusing them?
Michael Cunningham
May 20th, 2011
12:32 pm
@Fundamentals: “MC – don’t sweat it buddy. We who blog here know your take? Focus on the draft, on who we’ll get and what’s really happening, not on lame rants.”
ha . . . i’m good. all reasonable critiques are welcomed, none are taken personally.
i hope to have some draft stuff when Sund and Co. return from Chicago.
Sautee
May 20th, 2011
12:34 pm
Najeh,
LOL at “LD’s Granny”
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
12:35 pm
Grandad,
Your guy is very confident. From hoopshype;
The last word comes from, let’s say, a highly-confident Florida State forward Chris Singleton: “I’ve been telling everybody I’m a modern day Pippen. I feel I can do everything..
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
12:38 pm
Derrick Williams is out there saying he sees himself at the 3 next year.
This is the one Najeh wants to grab if possible, so if he can work at the 3, I am buying. He has had his talk with Minny, but Kahn doesn’t sound thrilled about another draft pick.
We all know the history of the #2 pick; more downers than ups. Kevin Durant, Alonzo Mouring, Jason Kidd and Gary Payton were the exceptions to the rule. The rest: not so much….
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
12:45 pm
MC: ” hope to have some draft stuff when Sund and Co. return from Chicago”
Come on MC, don’t you want to be in Chicago with Sund? On ESPNU and it looks like a lot of time to get plenty of info from the entire league.
Throw that thought out there to Sund to go get us a lottery selection since he gave away our 18.
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
12:46 pm
MC- I want to jump on the bandwagon and thank you for the good work this season.
I see a direct correlation between LD’s admission that he learned more about his players as head coach than he had in his role as assistant and the fact that his relationship with the players as an assistant was a main selling point in his hire. Essentially his hire was based on the assumption that he knew/respected/was respected by the team more so than Woodson.
Does his admission suggest the different relationship he had with the players than he does as head coach reflect more on the positions of head coach/assistant coach than actually the person that is Larry Drew?
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
12:46 pm
What would you give for the #2 or 3 pick?
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
12:47 pm
I love Kirk, but will agree losing our #1 pick and Crawford is feeling kinda painful right now? We need something, but we’ve gotta be careful…
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
12:48 pm
Fundamentals- don’t forget that another big selling point of that trade was getting rid of Bibby’s contract.
DinasaurFenton
May 20th, 2011
12:50 pm
Every Hawks fan right now is in hog heaven. They all know just how great this team is about to become. I will give you five reasons why Hawks fans should be more than excited. #1:Jeff Teague-Teague was unleased in the playoffs and showed himself to be as good as Deron Williams or Chris Paul.#2:Jamal Crawford-Even though Jamal slumped in the Chicago series, Jamal was awesome in the Orlando series and when he is on can shoot the ball like “Pistol” Pete Maravich;#3:Al Horford-Big Al had slumped for the majority of the playoffs including the Chicago series, but when Al wakes up, that sleeping giant will remind us all of Wilt Chamberlain;#4-Josh Smoove-Although Smith is erratic, turnover prone and uncoachable, when he is on he is every bit as good as LaBron James or D-Wade; and #5:Joe Johnson-Joe Johnson proved in the Orlando series that he is still the second best closer in the game behind Kobe Bryant and a certain FIRST BALLOT FUTURE HALL OF FAMER.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
1:03 pm
Daniel,
Hinrich was scheduled to make ~$2 mil more than Bibby this upcoming season, so getting rid of Bibby’s contract was not a selling point (imo).
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
1:04 pm
With the new CBA and possibly shorter NBA offseason (in terms of signings), hopefully the Hawks will be the beneficiary of some good deals, since Rick Sund will be shopping in the clearance aisle.
What can we give for the #2 pick? Minny is open to trading it, and they would prefer veterans. Plus they are under the salary cap for next year, so we wouldnt have to get back equal salary in return.
But they already have Kevin Love, so why would they want Josh or Al. And they already have one disappointing #2 pick (Beasley), so why would they want Marvin?
So would they want JJ for 5 years, $107 mil to try and convince Rubio to come over? And what could they offer the Hawks to make it worth our while?
Rev in Tampa
May 20th, 2011
1:11 pm
@doc – “yup, we need to hear more from LD on why he cant fess up. rev, can you help the man and get him as seat at the confessional kneeling table?… if you can lead by example you might be able to pull it off and honesty with yourself is the first way to get it done..”
doc,
Psalm 51 is my bell-whether for how serious or repentant a person is in their conscience. Since I can’t look into a person’s soul I have to look at their actions/words to see whether a person is ripe for change when I am counseling. 9 times out of 10 a person is just blowing smoke up my butt. They typically say all the right things about “personal responsibility”, “I’m sorry”, “it’ll never happen again”, blah, blah, blah.
But when I hear someone start talking in terms of Psalm 51 I know they mean business and change is not only possible but very likely. People don’t typically talk in those terms because they are at some level too proud or too defensive. I have noticed over the years that people who are unfamiliar with Psalm 51 still talk in similar terms when they are truly ready to make changes in their lives.
Psalm 51, you’ll no doubt remember, is King David’s confession of sin after he knocked up Bathsheba while her husband was away at war fighting in David’s army. After David realized she was pregnant he ordered that Uriah (Bathsheba’s husband) be brought home for leave so he could sleep with Bathsheba and plausably believe that he impregnated her. But Uriah was too honorable to sleep with his wife while his brothers in arms were still in combat (I’ve never understood how that is honorable or maybe I would never be that honorable). So David’s plan B was to order that Uriah be placed on the front lines where the fighting was most fierce. Naturally Uriah was killed in battle and David thought he had covered his tracks, but God told Nathan the prophet to visit David. Nathan told David about a rich man who stole a sheep from one of the poor citizens. And when David got mad and burned with anger toward the rich man Nathan said, “You are the man.” I retold the story from memory so you can check my facts by reading for yourself in 2 Samuel 11-12. Psalm 51 is David’s written confession of his sins in connection with the Bathsheba incident.
Most people in personal conflicts stop short of that type of personal confession and the other person accepts their confession (although inadequate) because they just want the conflict to be over. But invariably the same issue comes up again because the behavior that caused the conflict has never really been repented of.
All that to say that Drew’s words and actions offer us a peek into his soul. I don’t know the man personally, but it seems evident Drew is for himself first. He has thrown his team under the bus several times throughout the year. He has never taken personal responsibility for his decisions. After the 2nd game of the Orlando series when the 2-foul rule seemingly cost the Hawks a win, LD never said he made the wrong question, but after the national reaming he received, he quietly dropped the 2-foul rule. Some on the blog lauded his flexibility. It was just further confirmation to me that Drew lacks the character to effectively lead this team.
I have been commenting on this aspect of LD’s character since at least January because it keeps coming up in one fashion or another.
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
1:14 pm
OB- not saying it was worth it, but the reason that we had to give up a draft pick is that Bibby’s contract although less than Hinrich was considered more out of line with his age and production. These are the arguments that Sund made, not me.
doc
May 20th, 2011
1:20 pm
rev, he kind of fits in well with the askg family doesnt he?
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
1:22 pm
I liked Bibby’s leadership when he came, but in the end it seemed he was more interested in keeping it light, fun and joking…often when it was time to get down to business. Kirk brought a more professional, rigid, business attitude to the table. Kirk seemed to teach Teague, coach him and push Teague and the team to get better.
I’ll agree Kirk got frustrated, but his leadership, defense and toughness is there. He’ll be a better fit going forward. I see him complementing Teague and playing his role…something others can learn from.
I felt like Jamal should’ve and still is expendable. He refuses to play good D, he can’t rebound and we need someone with more strength to get to the bucket consistently. Was Jordan Crawford that…no, but he was a cheap risk to keep on the bench that we’d have moving forward.
The real question now is would MN make it worth or while for Joe or Marvin since they don’t really need Smoove or Al?
What vets are going to be out there that see us as close to making that transition? Who wants to come here? Did we do enough to show long term promise as the Celtics and Lakers look to retool?
I MUS WRITE
May 20th, 2011
1:31 pm
Same ol BS as every other offseason. Didnt we just watch a team that couldnt compete with real title contenders- WTF is there to be optimistic about. Same owners same coach same players. If optimism is what u want: 1. The owners should sell the team 2 explore trades for the following players JJ,AL,Marvin -Wave-Etan Thomas he is of no use much like Joe Smith the year before.
Al Horford complaining again Huh=enuff already add some bulk and a post game and stop cry’n like a lil……_Ytch
“I want to add range” Get theses softies off our team. He is scared of the post and has fallen in luv with his jumper….what happened to the Al and marvin form 2 years ago.On a side note Ive given up all hope of marvin being any more than a bench/reserve player….He is garbage folks
I never thought id say dirk nowitzki is more physical than anyone on the hawks roster……Jezzuz -
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
1:32 pm
IMUS- I am with you except on Al.
joey1
May 20th, 2011
1:33 pm
samuel dalembert is a free agent this summer that would be a great defensive center , we could let jamal go trade m williams for a draft pick and sign him im agine
teague,johnson, smith, horford, dalebert,, what a huge backcourt we would defenitley not get out rebounded much anymore
JoJo the Godfather
May 20th, 2011
1:33 pm
I can think of a few teams that could be interested in Joe Johnson:
1) Cleveland – I expect that Gilbert won’t be able to wait, and will try to pair his new draft picks with a veteran wing player. They may also look at Iguodala or Granger or Rudy G. for the same role. They have Antawn Jamison’s $15M expiring contract & Anderson Verejao at $7M to make things work.
2) Dallas – If OKC beats Dallas, and with the Lakers being somewhat in transition, Dallas may think they’re one SG or SF away from a title. They have Haywood’s long term deal, Jason Terry’s $13M expiring contract, and Jason Kidd’s $8M epxiring contract to work with.
3) New York – If NY feels that Chris Paul and Dwight Howard are not within reach next offseason, they may go ahead and try to get a big 3 of their own. They have Billups’s $14M expiring contract and Turiaf’s $4M player option to work with.
4) LA Lakers – Its possible that the Lakers might see a benefit to adding a versatile player like Joe. They could play a big lineup with Kobe & Joe at the guard spots or move Joe to SF. We all know what they have to deal: Artest, Odom, Gasol & Bynum. I could see them trying to package Artest & Odom for Joe.
5) Orlando – Orlando has to try its best to convince Howard to sign an extension, and sign it soon. Bringing Joe in would give them a consistent #2 scorer. They have the following sizeable contracts as trade chips: Nelson $8M, Duhon $4, Redick $7M, Bass $4M, Turk $10M, and Arenas $20M.
6) New Jersey – They are in the same situation as Orlando. They need to get an extension signed with D-Will & get ready to move in to a new arena. They have the following sizeable contracts as trade chips: Outlaw $7, Farmar $4M, and Morrow $4M.
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
1:37 pm
JoJo- that was a very nice list.
I MUS WRITE
May 20th, 2011
1:39 pm
Joe/Marvin/ZAZA to NJ for Lopez/T William /Morrow
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
1:41 pm
Thanks JoJo
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
1:42 pm
rev- Psalm 51 is the reason that Jesus called David “a man after God’s own heart”. Even though he was an adulterer and murderer (essentially) David realized that God doesn’t want our “burnt offerings” but “our broken spirit and our repentant heart.” I use this example many times when speaking to people who are trying to get clean from alcohol/drug addiction. Always glad to see this topic brought up anywhere. Thanks.
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
1:46 pm
“So would they want JJ for 5 years, $107 mil to try and convince Rubio to come over? And what could they offer the Hawks to make it worth our while?”
OB, while I like the idea of moving that bad contract out of this city, and with Joe not being the #1 elite leader we need, other than the #2, Minny nor the draft has a guy who can replace Joe if we are still trying to contend.
It just may not be a good fit, but I wouldn’t mind seeing what a frontline of Al/Josh or Enes Kanter could do for us here. That would give us the interior we need, and then we go back to wondering if Jamal works for us. But definitely not at his salary demands. He isn’t getting Ray Allen numbers from Sund IMO. He may get it elsewhere if they think he is the missing piece.
Perhaps Wesley Johnson and one of Ellington/Webster plus the #2 gets us some value for Joe:
Teague / Kirk / WJohnson / Smoove or Al / Kanter
Move another captain for a backcourt player to compete with Kirk and I might find that intriguing. But, we are talking about Sund making 2 big moves in one offseason. That along with the departure of Jamal makes that seem unlikely.
If I had my choice, I would move Al to get that number 2 or number 4 from Cleveland. That might be a better fit.
Fundamentals
May 20th, 2011
1:48 pm
being able to fully repent and give your best/heart to fully use your God given gifts to glorify him…isn’t that all God really wants?
I MUS WRITE
May 20th, 2011
1:48 pm
Daniel it may be too soon to make judgements on players ..but I still have images of JJ and Horford stinking it up against Chigao. I was really disappointed in AL he gave us nothing in the playoffs. Now he wants to shoot more and be on the wing -translation-”I dont wanna bang,I dont want contact, I just want to shoot……
Doesnt matter what his Fg % was during the season ….What did u do when the big boys show up…….Not much
With that said i dont want to jus give him away
Here are a few names i would move him for though
Bogut Lopez Hibber/tPsycho T combo Bynum/Shannon Brown combo
DS
May 20th, 2011
1:49 pm
JoJo great list, but:
Cleveland – most likely to deal w/Memphis
Dallas – will find their SF via FA
NY – they need a big man, not another scorer
LA – they need a reliable point guard (will probably go after Nash)
ORL – same division, will not deal w/Hawks.
NJ – No argument here…but we are not getting anything better than Joe from them.
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
1:52 pm
IMUS- I hear you bro, but I think you are just mad at Al right now. He is the keeper and Josh is the trade bait. IMO
Daniel
May 20th, 2011
1:55 pm
JoJo- I think the Clevland scenario is the most interesting version, but the move would have to be predicated on clearing cap space to sign Howard the following off season.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
2:18 pm
Trifling!
“Probably too expensive but possible could be had for the MLE (if there is a MLE next year)
S. Dalembert”
_____________
I don’t like the press clippings on this guy. From all I have gathered from the 76ers beat blog? Dalembert is a narcissistic sociopath. He appears to be the reincarnation of Derrick Coleman, (whom Barkley called out to be utterly lazy with unbelievable potential, when they played).
Now, I’m not saying Dalembert possess Derrick Coleman level talent, however his work ethic is abominable, if what I hear is true. He hates basketball and refuses to pick up a basketball in the off seasons. Word is he disappears from the surface of the earth and no one can account for his whereabouts in the Summer. Refuses to improve his offensive skill set and is allergic to the idea of playing defense hard at all times and has no motor. After he robbed Philly of what – 58M? He has not been seen since. Allegedly, in the locker room he is an incessant complainer and a cancer to his team. Typically, he complains to the media as he did vehemently in Sac-Town re: playing time or trade me, but never to the powers that be within the org. Sounds like a boat load of NOTHING to me.
Please don’t bring him here! He is about as useful as Marvin. But to Marvin’s credit he is a class act personality wise.
__________________
Samuel Dalembert? No thank you.
Worldwide Clyde
May 20th, 2011
2:30 pm
*yawn*
I told yall signing Bibby, Joe and Marvin would hurt us in the long run.
WaltFrazier
May 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
Fire Sund
Fire LD
Cut Marvin Williams
Cut Kirk Hinrich (which means eating his salary)
Then build a dynasty around our starting five:
Collins
Horford
Smoove
Teague
Johnson
Crawford-1st guy off the bench (6th man of the year award last season)
EVERYONE ELSE IS EXPENDABLE
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
2:39 pm
For Rev & others:
A coach [..LD or any other coach for that matter..] cannot afford
to be contrite. I use contrite due to the context of the blog.
Fans are fickle [..r e, Al..] administrators (bosses) are fickler.
Contrition is a sign of weakness or being unsure of oneself.
You would say, rightfully so, nay – it’s a sign of strength.
Try telling that to an angry mob that wants your scalp.
You ever see the movie ‘`Hoosiers”.
That town hall mtg is real life.
NCAA D-1 level = jacked up 10 fold.
Pro ball worth millions upon millions…..X ?
Which brings me to two points:
(1) I don’t blame LD at all for not showing contrition.
[..I wouldn't..] show contrition either.
(2) He is unfit for the job, because he is scared to show contrition.
Wait, did I just contradict myself ?
Perhaps.
My secondary point is one must have an oversized ego to man his job.
[..someone like myself..]
Coaching & being good at it,
is very complex.
You cannot reveal weakness, yet,
in your mind you must be bigger than the job or the job will overwhelm.
Example = If Joe Johnson challenges you,
then you must draw a line in the sand.
2nd example = you man up and say ” I ” cost us the game.
(even though you didn’t)
So you say you did when you didn’t and you don’t say you did…..
” if you did ” simple.
Gdot
May 20th, 2011
2:55 pm
Ok I have remade the roster with 4 new rotation pieces that I think will do wonders. Here we go with the new roster first
Startes
PG – Teague 1.6 M
SG – JR Smith
SF – Joe Johnson 18 M
PF – Horford 12 M
C – Oden
Bench
Hinrich 8 M
Rudy Fernandez 2.2 M
Damien 1.3 M
Carl Landry
ZAZA 4.75 M
Pape Sy 700k
Collins 1.3
With those nine players under contract we will have spent 49.85 million. 10 million under the current deal to get 3 players. We get Oden and Fernandez for Josh Smith and a pick. The Blazers do it because pairing josh and aldridge gives you a great defensive front court who is athletic and can score. That gets rid of their Fernandez problem since he wants out. We do it because we get Oden and a good back up who can score and does the dirty work. We get JR by doing a sign and trade with Marvin. The Nuggets take Marvin because hes cheaper than resigning Wilson Chandler. That leaves us with the midlevel exception to go get Carl Landry. DEFENSE AND OFFENSE for our Hawks.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
2:55 pm
Triple – Double!
If we trade Mr. Johnson for filler, who on this team will draw a double or triple team to open the lanes? People! No one is sending us a super-star in exchange for a 29 year old Joe. Love it or Hate it! This team needs to build this roster around Mr. Johnson.
If the great LeBron & Wade needed help, Why do we feel Mr. Johnson can do it alone? Al disappeared and Josh is erratic, however Josh does show up to play every single game and was arguably the best Hawk in this post season. Teague showed up brilliantly as well.
What a dilema! Get this team SOLD and soon! Aye Sund! Fix your roster Sir. Do something and do it soon! Figure it out – Sir!
That’s why you make the Big Bucks!
Sleepy
May 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
Ive come to the conclusion that all the evidence points to the fact Buddy Grizzard is a idiot .
This is the same stuff every year blame everyone else while still trying to cling to the belief that the “core “will take us anywhere besides the second rd .
Sund is giving the stupid fanbase exactly what they want .
Dept. of Unintended Irony
May 20th, 2011
3:12 pm
doc,
Stealing my gig today? Some fine catches, my friend.
JoJo the Godfather
May 20th, 2011
3:22 pm
Would we all be totally disappointed if Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams & ZaZa Pachulia were traded for expiring contracts, and then we show up next summer with a new owner, a new GM, a new coach, and roughly $28M committed to Josh Smith, Al Horford & Jeff Teague?
Trojan
May 20th, 2011
3:25 pm
Jo Jo: Great point!
JoJo the Godfather
May 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
Joe Johnson for Antawn Jamison & Semih Erden.
Marvin Williams & ZaZa Pachulia for Chris Kaman.
Sign Wilkins to 1-yr deal.
Front line of: Smith, Wilkins, Horford, Jamison, Kaman & Erden
Throw a parade…Have Josh dig up some blackmail pictures from high school days…Name a street after his mama…Whatever it takes to sign Dwight Howard next summer.
2012 Front Line: Smith, Horford & Howard.
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
3:34 pm
Sleepy
Why do we have to resort to name-callin’ ?
Mr Grizzard’s opinions are valid.
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
Pete & Re-Pete
Josh to PHX
—in return—
Hawks get:
Marcin Gortat + filler + PHX # 13 pick in 1st round.
Hawks select Chris Singleton Fla St.
This is a repost of a previous trade proposal.
I suspect you will see it again.
DS
May 20th, 2011
3:41 pm
Jojo you just made me daydream for about 15 minutes about a frontline of Josh, Al, Dwight…if we could somehow get that…wow…can u just imagine that?? Hawks would be the next Spurs or Lakers for the next 10 years…
doc
May 20th, 2011
3:46 pm
dept, i love word plays, couldnt resist stealing your thunder. my apologies, glad to enjoy your efforts going forward. didnt mean to over insight you. heh heh, hopefully not incite you.
LouCostello
May 20th, 2011
3:48 pm
JoJo: You cant be serious. DONT GIVE AWAY FUTURE HALL-OF-FAMER JOE JOHNSON FOR THAT JERK JAMISON. Antoine Jamison is a big stiff. Jamison along with Mo Williams let down LaBron James and that is why LaBron had to take his talents to South Beach. Antoine Jamison and Mo Williams dont play hard unless their is a fire-breathing dragon lighting fire to their britches.
J from the A
May 20th, 2011
3:48 pm
Nene wants out of Denver.
With the new CBA, there might not be a contender/near contender that will have the ability to sign him straight up.
Denver would like to get something for Nene.
Maybe Nene would consider Atlanta?
Hawks give up:
Al, Marvin
Nuggets give up:
Nene, Gallinari, and rights to Chandler/rights to Afflalo (and maybe lottery-protected 1st rounder)
The Hawks get their *true* center, and a pretty good one at that. The Hawks also add a bit of depth with Gallinari and Chandler, both of whom have very reasonable, very flexible contracts. (Chandler would be RFA this offseason; Gallinari next.) Plus, the Hawks get rid of Marvin.
Denver does it because they get real quality in return for Nene. They are going to lose Nene anyways, so being able to pick up a top-3 NBA center who is only 25 and has a lot of upside would be a dream come true for the Nuggets. To make this dream happen, the Nuggets only have to take on a not-so-great contract from a mediocre role player (Marvin) while giving up two other role players (Gallinari and Chandler/Afflalo) and maybe a first round pick.
Alternatively, the Nuggets may be interested in Smith, too, but would the Nuggets be willing to take on Marvin’s contract in a Smith for Nene bundle? Would they be willing to give up a 1st round draft pick or may they even demand a 1st round from the Hawks to make the trade work? I made the above proposal with Al and not Josh, because I think Al gets the Hawks more value. The Hawks need to be able to get a starting-quality center AND depth to make it worth it. With Josh, I think the best the Hawks could hope for would be a straight-up swap (maybe with a small throw in?). With Al, Denver may be willing to take on more/part with more.
J from the A
May 20th, 2011
3:50 pm
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
“Pete & Re-Pete
Josh to PHX
—in return—
Hawks get:
Marcin Gortat + filler + PHX # 13 pick in 1st round.
Hawks select Chris Singleton Fla St.
This is a repost of a previous trade proposal.”
Filler more than likely being Pietrus or Warrick. I think the numbers work with either. I think this would be a solid trade proposal for both sides (though I don’t know if Phoenix would want to include the draft pick).
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
3:52 pm
I’m watchin’ espnU coverage of the NBA combine.
Kenneth Faried is one of the most impressive young men
that I’ve seen in a long time.
He is working harder than anyone, running through drills
as if he’s playing for Chicago in the NBA championship.
He’s sweatin’ buckets !
Interviews like a charm.
Thibs probly gets a chubby watching this guy.
Can’t shoot a lick…..but who cares ?
Works his ass off, inspirational, he will be a champion !
LouCostello
May 20th, 2011
3:56 pm
LaBron James won 66 games and 61 games respectively in Cleveland (best records in the league) with both his sidekicks Antoine Jamison and Mo Williams. Mo Williams and Antoine Jamison pulled up lame in the playoffs and played like mules. Neither of them are hall of famers and they will drag any team they are on into the gutter.
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
3:59 pm
J from the A
I would not do the deal w/o the pick !
(the pick is the key)
Deal or No Deal !
Getting a starter at 13 is the only way I part with Josh.
Two starters = Singleton & Gortat / balances the line-up.
Plus we get true Center & replace Josh with a dynamic defender.
superiorblogman
May 20th, 2011
4:03 pm
Enes Canter is less of a C than Al Horford. You will see when the official measurements come out. Derrick Williams or bust at the #2 pick. Joe Johnson to the TWolves for the #2 pick and take Derrick Williams
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
4:04 pm
As much as I like Faried;
Singleton is a better fit for us.
Alas and Alack…we have no 1st round pick !
Sund…get us into the mid 1st round !
Value !
doc
May 20th, 2011
4:09 pm
j from the a has it right, to get rid of marvin you have to give up something good and get something the other guy doesnt like so much but still makes you stronger. what might that be? it may be a contract that doesnt fit or a player that doesnt fit because of others are in his way or the type game the team plays doesnt fit the players style but would ours. good luck rick sund, the real guy who has to make the parts fit. have to wait until the cba is done though before the moves can be made.
grandad has it right on trading josh. you need one starter and a center at that and one guy who comfortably fits into a top seven role or it is not worth it. last year it would have been a center and point guard for josh now it could be a center and wing who can shoot from long distance or plays defense, rebounds and hustles well or strong back up pf. anyway you have to come up with two bodies for josh that can play top seven for you.
J from the A
May 20th, 2011
4:10 pm
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
3:59 pm
“J from the A
I would not do the deal w/o the pick !
(the pick is the key)
Deal or No Deal !
Getting a starter at 13 is the only way I part with Josh.
Two starters = Singleton & Gortat / balances the line-up.
Plus we get true Center & replace Josh with a dynamic defender.”
Agree.
Gortat
Horford
Singleton/Williams
Johnson
Teague/Hinrich
with bench of Hinrich/Teague*, Williams/Singleton*, Zaza, MLE/MLE-equivalent PF, and Pietrus.
Not bad, and as you say, it would bring “balance” to the Hawks line up.
*obviously, which ever one is not the starter.
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
4:13 pm
Enes Kanter:
6′ 9.75″ (socks) 6′ 11.25″ (shoes) 259 (wgt) 7′ 1.5 (w-span)
9′ 1.5” (standing reach) 5.9 (body fat)
9.5 (hand length) 10.8 (hand width)
Dept. of Unintended Irony
May 20th, 2011
4:17 pm
doc,
no thunder stolen at all. glad to have you step up.
due to your insight, and your ability to incite, you get a “citation” for your excellence in lingual playfulness.
all in lower case in your honor
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
4:25 pm
J from the A
I would trade Marvin for a bag of doughnuts.
My point;
he would not be in my starting line-up.
Not trying to be contradictory.
Marvin’s gotta go.
” shoot up here amongst us,
’cause one of us has got to have some relief “
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
4:25 pm
Has anyone given thought to starting Kirk next season and letting Teague come off (with intent of playing starter minutes)? It would help fill some of the offensive gap if we let JC walk. It would appear to save us from having to spend on trading for another guard, so that we can pour our attention into filling up a 4/5 spot and extra body(s) on the roster.
For all intensive purposes- Sund missed the gigantic opportunity to trade JC at the deadline, I would hope that when he decides to let Kirk go, the exchange would be worthwhile.(8 million reasons)
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
4:27 pm
^come off the bench
J from the A
May 20th, 2011
4:35 pm
@James on Pharr Rd: I have those thoughts, but keep them to myself out of fear of getting crucified!
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
4:50 pm
Nikola Vucevic: – from Southern Cal -
6′ 10.25” (socks) 6′ 11.75” (shoes) 259 (wgt) 7′ 4.5 (w-span)
9′ 4.5” (standing reach) 6.1 (body fat)
9.3 (hand length) 10.3 (hand width)
Will be available at 48 according to most mock drafts.
I don’t see it, but if he is, surely we don’t pass on him.
He will be a steal at 48.
look for him to move up / possibly into the late 1st round ?
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
4:51 pm
J
I know what you are saying exactly…
Ginobli, Odom, Terry, and a few others have done it to perfection. And lets be honest- JT still needs to develop some parts of his game-mid range shot, and 3 point game…
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2011
4:54 pm
“If we trade Mr. Johnson for filler, who on this team will draw a double or triple team to open the lanes?”
a) No point in drawing a double team to open up the lanes if 1) you can’t pass the ball quickly enough out of the double team and 2) nobody is cutting down the lane
b) No need to have someone drawing those double teams when you have a point guard who can get into the paint against anyone and draw the defense in to set up his teammates
Joe is a very skilled offensive player, but the value of the double teams he draws is only as high as it is because the scheme is built around him to too large of an extent in the first place. If there is a way to de-emphasize him in the offense without his ego getting in the way, that would be a better course of action than to trade him. But if he wouldn’t be OK with sliding into a complementary role in a point guard-dominated offensive scheme — and after six years of being “the man”, it would be hard to blame him — the Hawks’ best recourse would probably be to trade him especially if they can get someone as skilled as Derrick Williams to replace him.
doc
May 20th, 2011
4:55 pm
very honored
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2011
4:56 pm
“Kenneth Faried is one of the most impressive young men
that I’ve seen in a long time.”
He would be an outstanding fit on the Hawks. This is a weak draft but that guy is going to be a great fit on a playoff team. Every team needs a hard nosed dirty work player like Faried — the Hawks more so than others.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2011
5:00 pm
“DONT GIVE AWAY FUTURE HALL-OF-FAMER JOE JOHNSON FOR THAT JERK JAMISON.”
Now that I have stopped laughing at “future Hall-of-Famer Joe Johnson”, I think it’s pretty clear that JoJo’s trade proposal had Jamison coming back in the deal because of his expiring contract, not his on-court value.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2011
5:06 pm
“Has anyone given thought to starting Kirk next season and letting Teague come off (with intent of playing starter minutes)? It would help fill some of the offensive gap if we let JC walk. It would appear to save us from having to spend on trading for another guard, so that we can pour our attention into filling up a 4/5 spot and extra body(s) on the roster.”
Assuming Joe is still a Hawk next year and Jamal is not, why would it be any different if Teague started and Kirk came off the bench? The Hawks could budget the minutes similarly between Teague/Joe/Kirk as they did at the start of this year between Bibby/Joe/Jamal. From an offensive standpoint I would think Kirk’s outside shooting would be a good change of pace coming off the bench, and Teague has shown he is more effective as a starter.
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
5:14 pm
Derrick Williams has ALLSTAR skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is THE REAL DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fearless
Lightning quick first step
Has a post up game
Has a legit Jumpshot with 3 pt range
Has above average handles
Can take defenders off the dribble to the rim for a Photo-op
Can pull up off the dribble and shoot the midrange jumpshot
He is a scorer……………..He is Nasty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He’s listed at 6′8″, 235lb….His vertical has to be at least 36″!! He will posterize people like Nique used to.
Dare I say “Human Highlight film #2″ and some?
Grandad
May 20th, 2011
5:17 pm
Najeh from 4:56 pm
Faried would instantly become a fan favorite !
” The anti – Joe Johnson “
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
5:24 pm
Im digging deep in the draft because I have to based on where Sund has put us…..how about Scotty Hopson, 6′7″ SG who could give us instant offense off the bench. I won’t boast about his defense though. If you want defense/hustle, go get DeAndre Liggins, who can rattle down a jumper every once in a while and he is long and lean.
Someone to give us a punch off the bench if we move Joe or we drop Jamal.
We have got to find that next scorer off the bench because the vet shooters are going to be too costly.
Sund is going to have to manuever to somehow get that 1st round pick back. He sure dumped our near future to punch out Bibby.
Here’s to Kirk getting over the rash of injuries he has fallen into lately.
KevinM
May 20th, 2011
5:29 pm
“Grandad
May 20th, 2011
5:17 pm
Najeh from 4:56 pm
Faried would instantly become a fan favorite !
” The anti – Joe Johnson “
Im wondering what minutes he is going to get from this roster? Are you taking Al or Josh off the floor? If not, the minutes are scarce as proven by LD.
We look at these young guns and we are just asking for it, because LD is going to mess with this kids’ head just like JT. Careful what we ask for here.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2011
5:40 pm
“Im wondering what minutes he is going to get from this roster? Are you taking Al or Josh off the floor? If not, the minutes are scarce as proven by LD.”
Considering that Zaza and Collins are the only capable backup big men on this team, and each one is limited in what they can do, Faried would be able to fill a role on the Hawks that currently isn’t filled consistently.
Of course he will be a late first round pick and the Hawks are not going to pick in the first round this year, so this is all speculation. But I would be willing to bet he has a DeJuan Blair-like impact on a playoff team next year.
ag
May 20th, 2011
5:42 pm
Oddly, I agree. I do hope they will trade Marvin for a draft pick and the coaches will play the rookie. They now should understand winning today and developing players certainly complement one another. Look at the guys over the last three seasons that were drafted, not developed by the Hawks but productive on other teams: (Jordan Crawford, Solomon Jones, Acie Law). Coaches should understand that every player drafted is not drafted to be a star, but have a role (remember Joe asking for guys who want to do the work that does not reflect in the box scores).
Drafting a rookie will give us room for us to acquire a veteran who will come off the bench and provide us with good defense and shooting. We need a “Chuck Person” type shooter to come off the bench. Maybe Wilson Chandler – if they can get him or J.R. Smith, Ray Allen, Mike Dunleavy, Matt Barnes, Michael Redd, Daequan Cook, Mickeal Pietrus or Shane Battier.
Also, Josh always works very hard in the off season to improve his game as well as Horford, so I expect those two to play better. The only way JJ will be better will depend on the coaching staff and how he is used. It will also depend on the players we are bringing in.
I do like Jamal, but we cannot afford to resign him. Wish him the best of luck and don’t drop 40 on us when you see us. Don’t have to worry about Marvin doing that. Marvin should be traded up to Portland.
ag
May 20th, 2011
5:49 pm
I agree with SlimJr and the 5 reasons why we will improve (even though I don’t think he agrees??)
Buddy Grizzard
May 20th, 2011
6:12 pm
“Buddy Grizzard is a idiot … same stuff every year blame everyone else while [clinging] to the belief that the “core” will take us anywhere besides the second rd.” – Sleepy
Sleepy, your reasoning would work if I was one of the people who advocated keeping the core together. In actuality, I spent most of the past offseason arguing that the Hawks should let Joe Johnson walk, or sign-and-trade him for minimal compensation.
However, when I say Sund has put the Hawks in the best possible position to win “next year,” this is true. If Joe had walked as a free agent last offseason, only a fraction of his cap hold would have been available to sign other players, none of whom would have been of Joe’s talent level. So by retaining Joe, the ASG has gone all in to try to win now.
Furthermore, I’m not just arguing that the core could potentially take us past the second round in the future, I’m arguing that the core COULD HAVE taken us to the Conference Finals THIS YEAR, if properly coached.
The problem I have with Big Ray’s and MC’s analysis of Drew’s coaching is that it sets the bar excessively low. If the best that you can say about Drew is that his decisions are no more stupid than the decisions of his players, or that he makes good decisions slightly more often than stupid ones, then I can’t understand why you wouldn’t advocate Drew’s replacement.
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
6:19 pm
Hollins defeats the Bulls with the Hawks squad in 6!
LD was a jacked up hire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buddy Grizzard
May 20th, 2011
6:27 pm
“These are all things I’ve criticized Drew for repeatedly throughout the season.” – MC
Here’s my view on that. After Boston went to the NBA finals last year and the Hawks came within two wins of the Conference Finals this year, I really believe that the regular season doesn’t matter. So I’m perfectly aware that you’ve criticized Drew’s rotations throughout the year… I’ve read every word you’ve published since you were hired by the AJC.
I just have a problem with the low standards in analyzing Drew’s coaching when it really counts, when it makes the difference between these Hawks winning two more games and advancing farther than any Atlanta Hawks team ever has before. When Drew’s poor coaching cost the Hawks a chance at going to the ECF, I’m simply not reassured by the idea that “Drew’s tactical decisions… worked more times than not.” They didn’t work often enough to suit me.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
6:29 pm
Double Shot!
“MC,
Let’s keep it real. Even if there was no upcoming CBA issues, Rick Sund would sit around all offseason, only to end up signing 2 or 3 vet min guys, watch Jamal sign with somebody else because he is out of our price range, and then say the Hawks are one of only “X” teams to make it to the second round three seasons in a row, so only minor tweaks are needed.” – O’Brien -
____________________
Just – Damn!
Katie
May 20th, 2011
6:35 pm
“Has anyone given thought to starting Kirk next season and letting Teague come off (with intent of playing starter minutes)? It would help fill some of the offensive gap if we let JC walk. It would appear to save us from having to spend on trading for another guard, so that we can pour our attention into filling up a 4/5 spot and extra body(s) on the roster.”
Honestly I think that is the way LD is probably going to do it, but people will still be surprised when Teague isn’t in the starting line up at the beginning of next season. I can’t say I disagree with that decision. Although I too have lobbied for Teague to get more minutes throughout the season(s), it was just a yearning to see what his potential could be. The second round of the playoffs certainly proved that, but we need to be realistic. Can Teague pull off consistent playing like that? Starter minutes off the bench would help get more of a feel of whether or not he can live up to these huge expectations [some] people have for him.
Plus it would take a lot of pressure off the kid. Going from playing minimal minutes in your first 2 seasons in league to being a full time starting point guard for a team that needs some obvious rebuilding? The transition from back up PG to full time starter midway through the season sounds a lot easier… and that’s only if he produces with consistent minutes.
Keep in mind all of the depends on whether or not LD will even play Teague more next season. After round 2 I don’t see how he couldn’t but LD never stops surprising me…
Sautee
May 20th, 2011
6:49 pm
Buddy Grizzard,
I think you are a really good poster when you keep it real. Seriously.
Keep it up.
Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2011
6:56 pm
I don’t know why so many of you are so fixated on getting rid of Marvin. You act like getting rid of him is going to somehow make this team so much better. He’s a 6′9″ 240lb player that can play SF, PF and even SG in a pinch. He’s a good outside shooter, gets to the FT line, and can defend all 3 positions very well.
He doesn’t need to be disposed of, he just needs to come off the bench and be made a part of the regular OFF, and it’s LDrews responsibility to make that happen. A bench of MWilliams, Pape Sy, DWilkins, ZPachulia and JCollins, is solid. We just need to add another shooter and a more athletic big that can defend and block or alter shots occasionally. That’s where players like ARolle or HArmstrong might come in.
Our bench is certainly as good, if not better, than the one fielded by the Heat, who made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Even though he has his limitations, Zaza is one of the NBA’s better backup centers. DWilkins can be very effective, especially defensively, if given consistent mins. I think Pape Sy is close to being a bigger, taller version of JTeague. All Marvin needs is to have his roll defined, like coming off the bench as a primary scorer, rebounder and defender.
It certainly worked out well for Jamal Crawford when Woodson did it with him.
Katie
May 20th, 2011
7:08 pm
@Ken,
I totally agree with you, I think Marvin still has great potential to be a great player. Just not with the Hawks. We’re not what he needs and he’s not what we need, simple as that. If I were Marvin I would want to be traded anyways, go to a team with a coach who knows what to do with me.
Just like Crawford, Marvin may have to bounce around the league for a bit before he gets that chance. (if he ever does)
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
7:12 pm
“9.3 (hand length)”
- grand-daddy -
___________
Hmmmm … can you slip him my #? LOL.
Seriously Grand-Daddy, you know I only have blog eyes for you.
Anyway, very nice find there. You should be on Sund’s scout team, you’re like “Dog -The Bounty Hunter”, if it’s alive and hiding? You will find it and drag it in. -wink-
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
7:23 pm
A Place for Marvin!
Ken Strickland
That is a very well made argument for keeping Marvin. I really do like his personality and class. If he really get’s in the gym and work on his “J” like kD does and MJ did, by putting up 333 shots – three times per day and start nailing that thing at 50%? He would be worth every penny.
Hell, if he could even emulate Keith Bogans at this point, I would be fine with him staying. I just think we all want to see some major talent infusion around here. Another 2nd round exit will not sit well with anyone on this blog.
Sund really needs to go buy a lap-top and hire a tutor to help him push the buttons and find some body to come in here and play. Fast.
ag
May 20th, 2011
7:23 pm
Katie, you really make no sense. If Teague does not start next year….I will not know what to do. I have said it all year, even before the trade. How long do you want to keep him on the bench? He should play 40-45 minutes per game.
Ken, when I look at some of your older post, you were an advocate for hiring LD. You really must be kidding about Marvin. Everyone has made every excuse in the book to keep this kid. Look at his track record in college. HE DID NOT START!!! He is living on his high school rep when he was a monster!
I am intrigued about trading Joe to Mn. They have the cap space and could use a SG. They do not need a SF since they have Beasly. Maybe the Hawks will do like the Nuggets did once Melo was gone? If they did that, they still will have to acquire a shooter.
Again, name two things Marvin is really good at. I will start the list, ANYONE can finish it.
1. Marvin is really good at falling over himself.
2. ???
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
7:31 pm
Najeh and Katie
If Jamal walks this off-season and we don’t make any roster changes, we are going to need to fill that offensive hole. Kirk is a good 3 point shooter, but his game is seemingly better suited as a starter with solid D and knocking down the occasional 3. Teague can still get his 35-40 minutes coming off the bench and provide a great lift off the bench with his shot making ability. If Kirk comes off the bench with Marvin and Zaza (assuming no trades are made) who is going to create opportunities for others?
Hypothetically, if we had Kirk active in the 2nd round against CHI-our second unit with Teague would have created all sorts of problems on D for Chi, instead we had Jamal who is good with creating jumpers and not penetration. (High percentage action at the hoop)
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
7:43 pm
Najeh
Teague looked good as a starter, future star I might add, but he never got an opportunity to play decent minutes off the bench either. This move helps the team in different ways.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
7:49 pm
Tweak It!
“After Boston went to the NBA finals last year and the Hawks came within two wins of the Conference Finals this year, I really believe that the regular season doesn’t matter.”
- My Buddy -
__________________
Please allow me to tweak this comment. Let’s not minimize to regular season standings from #1 – #4, that affords you home court advantage in round 1. That extra game at home, eating from your fridge and sleeping in your bed is huge!
Boston only conceded the #3 spot to the hawks for that #4 spot, by resting key players down the stretch. And, we all know what the magic did to us in round 2.
_______________
Also Buddy, calm down baby … You’re gonna’ have a stroke worrying about Mr. Drew. Sure, he could have done some things differently, I think he had the right schemes, but at some point, these players just have to step up! The coach doesn’t have a joy-stick to make them hit their shots and play with energy. These guys are supposedly professionals and just a modicum of pride should have showed up in those winnable losses.
These guys making 10M to 16M per year, just have to step up and play hard and with passion. Don’t just blame the coach, I seriously doubt Mr.$ Drew asked these guys not to make plays, rebound, box out and defend like their lives depended on it. That was a team loss, plain and simple.
ag
May 20th, 2011
7:49 pm
Why would you put Teague on bench? You guys sounding like LD. Would you put Rondo on the bench? He deserves to start because next year he will make everyone around him better. No more fumbled passes from Hilton and ZaZa resulting in more dunks for AL & Josh – (if they post up or roll to the basket) or open jumpers for Kirk or JJ.
Katie
May 20th, 2011
7:49 pm
Just because he’s coming off the bench doesn’t mean he won’t be playing… As good as he looks he still has a lot of work to do on his game, something coming off the bench can improve. It’ll only make him even better when he does start.
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
7:59 pm
Did I hear Jamison+B Diddy(Davis) for Joe Johnson + future pick?
James on Pharr Rd
May 20th, 2011
8:00 pm
Ag
To increase productivity off the bench.
JoJo the Godfather
May 20th, 2011
8:29 pm
Once we draft Isaiah Thomas in the 2nd round and give him the keys to the 2nd team offense, the bench will be fine.
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
8:48 pm
Hey Buddy “you are the MAN”! Good Stuff Dude!
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
8:50 pm
If Derrick Williams played his cousin one on one, Marvin would quit in 5 mins….
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
8:52 pm
Marvin = 2 left feet…………………shoot……………..
drmaryb (*_-)
May 20th, 2011
9:07 pm
HoopsHype!
Alex Kennedy: The Hawks floated Josh Smith’s name out at the trade deadline and they didn’t like any of the offers that they received. Teams were low-balling them. If they were to shop him today, I think he would generate significant interest. Plenty of teams are looking to package picks and young players for a veteran piece and there would be quite a few teams calling the Hawks. HoopsWorld
Atlanta Hawks, Trade, Josh Smith | share 
Sam Smith: Yes, I expect him to be among several high profile players who are available after this season, and I’m not convinced no matter what the Grizzlies said they’ll keep Rudy Gay. I’d also watch for Monta Ellis, Tony Parker, Michael Beasley, Kevin Martin, Andrea Bargnani, Danny Granger, Rajon Rondo, Devin Harris, Chris Kamen, Stephen Jackson, Jameer Nelson and Richard Hamilton among those who could be moved in trades. NBA.com
Memphis Grizzlies, Trade, Rudy Gay | share 
_____________________
Adrian Wojnarowski: Most honest Pre-Draft Combine answer ever — Western Conference team says to prospect: “We hear you like to smoke, drink and burn bridges.” Twitter

Adrian Wojnarowski: Prospect: “Yeah, I smoke and drink, but whoever told you I burned down a bridge is a (bleeping) liar.” Twitter
____________________
WOW! Be careful with these draft picks, this draftee is a tool. You really have to Voir Dire these players and test drive their minds before you make that pick. I got $5 for anyone who can tell me – who is this guy?
 
steve
May 20th, 2011
9:13 pm
Fire Sund bring in someone young clever and has a good feel bringing palyers who would have good chemstry other than al holford the hawks are a bunch of me players signing sund to a extension is stupid.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
10:03 pm
Ken Strickland,
He’s a good outside shooter.
In 05-06, Marvin shot 25% from 3 (13-53). In 06-07, he shot 24% from 3 (11-45). In 07-08, he shot 10% from 3 (1-10), In 08-09, he shot 36% from 3 (55-155), in 09-10, he shot 30% from 3 (40-132), and this past season, he shot 34% from 3 (37-110).
Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. The numbers say Marvin is NOT a good outside shooter.
Not only is he a career 31% 3-pt shooter, in 6 seasons, he has made 126 three pointers. That’s an average of 26 three pointers per season.
Would you consider Josh a good outside shooter? He is a career 28% 3-pt shooter, and in 7 seasons, he has made 178 three pointers, an average of 25 three pointers per season. Very similar number to Marvin.
JANDREWS487
May 20th, 2011
10:10 pm
Why does everyone want to get rid of Larry Drew!? I think he’s a great coach!
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
10:12 pm
Kyle Korver is a good outside shooter. 41% career from 3, 120 three pointers made this past season. Keith Bogans is a good outside shooter; 38% from 3, 90 three pointers made this season. Anthony Morrow is a good outside shooter. 45% from 3, and an average of 112 three pointers made per season.
Those are good shooters.
tyger
May 20th, 2011
10:14 pm
Marshon Brooks!!!
SteveW
May 20th, 2011
10:30 pm
All of these great draft ideas, but I would not be surprised if:
Hinrich starts and Teague is borderline in the rotation.
If after re-signing Wilkins and Colliins, our “Great Leap Forward” will be:
Signing Armstrong, Rolle, and Aminu for bigs
Drafting Isaiah Thomas from UW or that PG out of Illinois
And call it a summer.
That will not shock me if that happens.
SteveW
May 20th, 2011
10:33 pm
The Atlanta Hawks = The Kiss of Death for Young Guards
Salim
Acie
Royal
Jordan Crawford
Teague until a freak injury pushes him into the limelight
If I was a PG, I would be praying the Hawks did not draft me.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2011
10:42 pm
Steve W,
Rick might draft Isaiah Thomas from UW because he thinks he’s drafting THE Isaiah Thomas (former Bad Boy).
SteveW
May 20th, 2011
10:47 pm
Backcourt: Teague, Hinrich, JJ = Solid
Bigs = Al, Josh, ZaZa, Collins = Solid, if we play Josh at 4 mostly
SF = Marvin, Wilkins = Weak link
That’s 9 players. Throw in Sy, that’s 10.
Rolle is 11.
If our 2nd pick sticks, that’s 12
Not much room for others.
Now if we went out and signed Chucky Hayes, Reggie Evans, Kwame Brown as bigs, and got a Barea as a sparkplug off the bench, could entice Tayshaun Prince or Battier to come work as a wing, I would really like it.
But I’m not going to hold my breath.
I think we will be debating Richard Hendrix, Rolle, Armstrong, Aminu, Gilder and the likes, and do we like Isaiah Thomas from Washington.
SteveW
May 20th, 2011
10:55 pm
Marvin’s salary works for Ramon Sessions and Daniel Gibson.
Move JJ to 3, and we still have 4 solid G’s in Teague, Sessions, Hinrich, and Gibson.
Gibson has averaged 40%+ from the three in his career – he’s the new Jamal.
Any of the three besides Teague could play the 2
But we would have to get the Cavs GM drunk to make this trade.
And as far as Rubio goes, I heard he’s shooting like 29% in Spain this season. Heard on the radio he’s been a disaster.
I don’t think he’s all that. But maybe
Rusty
May 20th, 2011
11:11 pm
Katie you sure don’t know anything about basketball. Kh is on his way down. We need a strong fast penetrating pg like jy, do you want JJ to control our offense, that will never get us there. Ld is a horrible coach who makes horrible decisions, we need an improvement.
Hank Aaron
May 20th, 2011
11:43 pm
You have a guy (Teague) who proved to be the teams’ BEST player in the 2nd round of the playoffs — who could not even see the friggin’ court during the regular season — and you even remotely consider keeping the coach who is responsible for this!
I have no words. Just no words to respond to this. This is not something that (on the surface) takes deep thought or anaylysis to analyze. Someone please tell me where my otherwise logical brain is failing me here.
Jae Evolution
May 20th, 2011
11:55 pm
We really need big men on this team, but I can’t help getting excited seeing some of these Guards.
I’m going to say it until I see him succeed or fail, Marshon Brooks is the biggest sleeper in this draft, if he falls to us that late which a few mocks have him doing, his talent FAR exceeds anything a 2nd round big would give us.
SteveW if we were to not get Brooks, my second choice for a pick would DEFINITELY be Isaiah Thomas. Why can’t he be a Barea type off the bench? He lit it up at Washington for 3 years and he will be a 2nd rounder no doubt.
If this were to happen Hinrich/Jamal would have to go but I wouldn’t mind that too much because Teague would start. I think people put too much into size now, there have been some great little men in NBA past, maybe he can be the next one.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 21st, 2011
12:57 am
Brown Kool – Aid!
“Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. The numbers say Marvin is NOT a good outside shooter.”
_______________
You get brown Kool-Aide, when you mix grape & orange.
Don’t drink it!
Grandad
May 21st, 2011
1:48 am
Rusty
You are not a judge of what or how much basketball anyone knows,
nor am I.
You can annotate all you want – so can others.
If you disagree, then do so nicely.
Name calling is what you hear daily at Jr. High
but it has no place here.
Grandad
May 21st, 2011
2:18 am
Mary Ellen
Kawhi Leonard – San Diego St – (hands) 9.8 length, 11.3 width
Just a little somethin’ for you to “size up”.
Grandad
May 21st, 2011
2:35 am
Kenneth Faried:
A slendid combination of;
Dennis Rodman, Paul Milsaps, Ben Wallace, DeJuan Blair,
and Reggie Evans, with the unbridled intensity of Joakim Noah,
and the all-out bust it every second he’s on the floor attitude of…..
Mario West.
Unfortunately, Mario is a better shooter, maybe even much better.
* He is projecting to go between 10 -&- 14, maybe higher.
** Sund will never make it happen !
*** He is the one player;
— who could change the ‘`Dynamic” of the Hawks — !
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
2:44 am
@ Grandad . . . I’m still a MC “groupie”, if you want to call me that. That dude is as on point and professional as a writer that the AJC staff has. He’s EASILY the best sportswriter on the staff.
I think when it comes down to it though, we basically disagree on how good and/or how important Joe Johnson is as a player, and as a member of this team. Like about 75% of the fan base, I think he believes that JJ is the 3rd best player on the team. Even in his write-up yesterday, he basically lists the players in order of importance in his mind ( my assumption, but I think I’m right ).
All I know is that the opponents we face aren’t trying to stop Horford or Smith . . they’re trying to stop Johnson at all costs. And the reason for that is because Horford and Smith are highly dependent on others to score the basketball. JJ, on the other hand, will light most people up if single covered.
With both Horford and Smith seeing 69% of their made field goals coming off of assists, you’d have to wonder how Horford or Smith would function as the main guy, if JJ wasn’t here? And I’m not talking about for a 5 – 10 game stretch in which opponents would just play everyone straight up. I’d like to see how effective Horford or Smith could be if they were constantly doubled?
But I think that’s the only minor difference of opinion that MC and I have. JJ isn’t outstanding in any area . . he’s simply solid in just about all areas. He’s the kid that would make straight B’s or maybe one C on a report card most of the time, but rarely make an A or a D.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
3:02 am
As for the future of this team, it sure would’ve been nice to be able to add the young players to the team, to possibly remake the supporting cast. If the Bibby trade didn’t go down and if we didn’t sell that 1st round pick last year for cash, this would be our team
Johnson
Smith
Horford
Teague
Marvin
Zaza
Bibby
And this is what we could’ve added either last summer, or this summer coming up
Jordan Crawford
1st round pick 2010
1st round pick 2011
Player from the TPE that we picked up from the Childress trade
Instead, we have none of those final 4 that I listed, and we have Hinrich in place of Bibby. I guess it was just too much for the ASG to potentially add 3 young players + a TPE player to the payroll. Maybe Sundi Wan Kenobi can get us minimum level free agents that can help us.
(( shaking my head ))
Buddy Grizzard
May 21st, 2011
4:49 am
drmaryb mark my word… convincing Josh Smith to stay *OR* getting good trade value for him is the most important thing this franchise needs to worry about. Last time he was a restricted free agent and the Hawks could match Memphis’ offer. Two offseasons from now, he will be an unrestricted free agent. That means this time next year we’ll be having the same conversations about him that Orlando fans are having about Dwight Howard now.
Two years from now, Joe Johnson will be in steep decline. Two years from now, Josh Smith will be the biggest free agent since LeBron James.
Slimjr thanks for the love but you called it sir… it’s all rigged. Even if Vegas could coach drose is always going to get the superstar treatment from the refs.
Buddy Grizzard
May 21st, 2011
7:50 am
Slimjr
May 20th, 2011
8:50 pm
If Derrick Williams played his cousin one on one, Marvin would quit in 5 mins….
How stupid do you feel right now if you are the Los Angeles Clippers? People are saying Blake Griffin must be mad cause he missed out on getting to play with Kyrie Irving. BUMP THAT… front line of Blake, DeAndre and Derrick Williams? GTFO! Plus they already got Mo Williams at point.
Buddy Grizzard
May 21st, 2011
7:52 am
Oh wait I’m an idiot… they wouldn’t have Mo Williams if they kept the pick… they probably would draft Kyrie Irving to replace Baron Davis.
superiorblogman
May 21st, 2011
8:24 am
What should have been.
Teague/Bibby/Darius Morris (1st round)
Joe/Jordan/Pape
Josh/Marvin/Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (MLE)/Jimmy Butler (2nd round)
Al/Reggie Evans (MLE)/Chris Wilcox
Dalembert (sign and trade Jamal for Dally)/Zaza/Jason Collins/
Much better, depper, more versatile team than what Sund will ever bring us. He simply phucked us up with that Hinrich trade and will not be able to fix it.
All we would need is a Center. Bibby has the expiring so you draft a PG, you want to trade Marvin so you draft a SF, if a Center you really like is there you take a chance on him.
Add the best available player with the first round pick. Do the same with the 2nd rd pick, use the MLE on Reggie Evans and Marcus Thorton and we are good.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
10:45 am
Buddy Grizzard
May 21st, 2011
4:49 am
drmaryb mark my word… convincing Josh Smith to stay *OR* getting good trade value for him is the most important thing this franchise needs to worry about. Last time he was a restricted free agent and the Hawks could match Memphis’ offer. Two offseasons from now, he will be an unrestricted free agent. That means this time next year we’ll be having the same conversations about him that Orlando fans are having about Dwight Howard now.
Two years from now, Joe Johnson will be in steep decline. Two years from now, Josh Smith will be the biggest free agent since LeBron James.
****************************
Buddy . . that will only be true if Josh Smith develops a post game. It is imperative that he establishes a good post game to improve his stock as a player. The jumper was fixed for about 6 weeks, but now it’s broken again. So he needs to become a decent post player to truly round out his offensive game.
The real decline that happens in the NBA, is with a player’s athleticism. It’s the athletic players that seem to really fall off in this league as they get older. So it’s important for athletes to do other things well, whether it be as a shooter or as a post player.
As for JJ, unless he gets injured, he isn’t going in steep decline anytime soon either. His game is a low impact below the rim type game. His game isn’t necessarily dependent on his quickness, but his skill as a versatile offensive player. The thing to watch about JJ though, is that elbow and if it affects his long range shot, especially the 3 pointer. That shot was completely broken during the regular season, but he shot 43% from 3 in the playoffs.
So the key to his longevity is for him to continue to make the outside shot, especially the open 3. Also, if he can start to draw more fouls ( especially if he becomes a 3 in the future ), that will help him from a production standpoint as well. ). But if he starts shooting in the low 30% as a 3 point shooter, then I’ll agree that he’ll start to fall off in 2 years.
If you want to say in 2 years that JJ won’t or shouldn’t be the “lead dog”, that’s a fair statement. But JJ, if he gets the shots, can sustain an 18 – 20 ppg . . 4 assist . . 4 rebs . . 44% FG – 80% FT – 36% 3FG level for another 2 to 3 years at least. But the key will be that 3 point shooting.
Hoops
May 21st, 2011
10:52 am
Why live in the past? We have what we have. Why be concerned about who we are not?
Moving forward, if the Hawks are not going to trade up into the first round I would like to see the Hawks move up some and take Keith Benson from Oakland. I saw him play 2 or 3 times this past season. I believe that he has a very bright future in the NBA. The Hawks need a young big. He is 6′11″, has a 7′4″ wing span, and a 9′2″ standing reach. He only weighs 225, so he will have to bulk up. JMHO
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
12:01 pm
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
10:45 am
If you want to say in 2 years that JJ won’t or shouldn’t be the “lead dog”, that’s a fair statement. But JJ, if he gets the shots, can sustain an 18 – 20 ppg . . 4 assist . . 4 rebs . . 44% FG – 80% FT – 36% 3FG level for another 2 to 3 years at least. But the key will be that 3 point shooting.
********************
Just for reference sake, these are the guards ( and SFs 6-8 and under ) who have averaged 20 pts – 4 asst – 4 rebs over the age of 30 since Jordan entered the league in 1984 ( 27 year span )
G. Payton – 5
Jordan – 4
Kobe – 3
V. Carter – 3
Alex English – 3
Bernard King – 2
R. Allen – 1
Drexler – 1
R. Harper – 1
Stephen Jackson – 1
Magic – 1
Mashburn – 1
Pippen – 1
J. Rose – 1
And only 5 of those guys ( Payton, Jordan, Drexler, Kobe, and Vince Carter ) were able to do that at age 32 or older.
So maybe JJ can achieve that feat once, maybe twice more . . especially if a guy like Jamal isn’t brought back, and JJ’s work load as a scorer increases ( but becomes easier ).
He should’ve achieved the 20 – 4 – 4 again last season for the 6th straight time, had it not been for his horrific 3 point shooting, and the fact that Drew’s offense didn’t get him enough shots ( until the 4th quarters of games ), reducing his shots per game by almost 2.
It would be nice if he can find a way to draw more fouls in the future. Even if it’s how Paul Pierce draws fouls. We need him getting to the line 5 – 6 times a game. That would help his offensive game tremendously.
If the same team is brought back next year, Drew really needs to get these guys the ball in areas in which they can score the basketball. At least half of those jumpers that Smith took this year, should’ve either went to Horford, JJ, or Jamal. And conversely, Smith needed more shots in the paint.
Just because people are open, doesn’t mean that they need to be shooting the ball. Drew should scrap the Motion offense, and develop an offense that can get his key guys shots in the areas where they can be most effective.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
12:30 pm
Interesting article from a 76ers blog back in February. As people know, the Sixers failed miserably in 2009 – 10 under Eddie Jordan, when they tried to install the Princeton offense. You need shooters to run that offense, and the Sixers couldn’t shoot worth a dang.
So as the article states, new coach Doug Collins added a wrinkle in the Sixers offense sometime in January that featured Iggy as the point forward ( a role that he usually played anyway under Mo Cheeks ). That article is dated February 8th. And guess who the Sixers played that night?
Yep . . the Hawks.
And they DESTROYED US.
They were already starting to come alive as a team, winning 6 out of 8. But that was the game that really validated that they were on the right track . . and started our freefall from a semi-elite team, to an average team.
Philly finished the year 18 – 14 from that point on. We finished the season 11 – 20 from that Philly loss to the end of the season. Luckily we were able to find some of our mojo in the playoffs.
One thing is for sure, we have to be careful not to overrate or underrate how we finished the regular season and the playoffs. If you add the playoffs, we finished the season 17 – 26.
So does that mean that we need more than just minor tweaks to the roster, as Drew suggests? Or do we need a different mix of players . .and possibly even a new coach?
I said before last season that if things failed here, that you’d have to put most of the blame on the players for that. And while I still agree with that, some of the decisions that Drew made didn’t make things better around here at all.
Even the Orlando series was predicated on us simply letting Dwight destroy us while staying with their shooters, combined with us essentially letting JJ and Jamal go one on one.
Honestly, we need to trade one of our “core” for maybe 2 solid players, just to improve the depth on this team. Get a 2 for 1 for Smith or Horford . . if it’s JJ, try to get a 3 for 1.
Denver dramatically improved their team by getting all of those quality players for Melo. But in the playoffs, you still need that “one guy” that can take and make the big shots.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
12:39 pm
As for Rick Sund . . . I do not trust his evaluation of players, especially big men.
When you draft guys like Saer Sene, Robert Swift, and Johan Petro . . ALL AS 1ST ROUND PICKS . . you really have to question that dude’s judgement when it comes to evaluating big man talent.
Sund has to go. Drew needs to go. And one of “the core” probably has to go . . in order for this team to progress to that next level.
Melvin
May 21st, 2011
12:56 pm
What would be very nice if the Hawks could send Marvin to the CAVS for a TPE b/c the Cavs still have their TPE from the Lebron trade to Miami. This trade would get Marvin off the books and create some cap space b/c the Hawks would not add salary to the payroll in return.
Melvin
May 21st, 2011
12:58 pm
If the Hawks could swing the Marvin trade to the Cavs for a TPE. Then the Hawks could sent the TPE along with the JChills TPE(3.6 mil) to the Clippers for Kamen. However, I’m not sure if NBA rules allow to combine TPEs in a trade.
cp
May 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
SteveW why would the Hawks consider any of those guys? A few played on the summer league but didnt even get an invite to training camp. I seriously doubt the Hawks consider signing any of those guys. And whats up with the Hilton Armstrong love on here? Dude is terrible. I see no reason to bring him back. Wouldnt be shocked if he was out of the league again..
@KevinM, if the kid who skipped college and went overseas was available, I would take a chance on him. I forgot his name but he has good size and seems very athletic. You just have to hope he has matured……Brooks seems like the type who will move up in the draft after the workouts. I doubt he is there when the Hawks pick
STRETCH
May 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
The latest tweet….”Josh Smith and the Hawks maybe finally tired of each other” or something to that effect. Where is this coming from???
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
2:16 pm
cp . . it’s just that sense of desperation us fans have, instead of looking at how the player actually plays. We gravitate toward anything. Even a guy like Pape Sy, people have penciled into the rotation next year.
Armstrong has been with 5 teams in the past 2 years. So it’s hard to
@ stretch . . . I don’t know where that tweet came from, but the idea from that probably didn’t come from Josh Smith or the Hawks. It probably came off of something said off of a Hawks blog or message board. Those national writers are a joke with their “unnamed sources”, knowing that all they do is read the fan blogs and try to make up a story from that.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
Interesting read from hoopinion;
The aforementioned inherent difficulties in evaluating Rick Sund’s 2010-11 season were founded on his lame duck status throughout the season. Not just was Sund universally perceived as a lame duck GM, but also one who did not have authority over either of the head coach hiring decisions made during this tenure. How do you evaluate a man over moves he may or may not have initiated, moves with which he may or may not have agreed?.
This is why as hard as I am on the players and the HC, I think the problem all starts with ownership.
Nor was it just Johnson’s contract that came home to roost this season. Whereas that deal will seriously hamstring the Hawks in the future, it was the prior re-signings of Mike Bibby and Marvin Williams which seriously hurt the 2010-11 Hawks. The amount of money invested in two sub-par starters limited the utility of eminently reasonable contracts for Josh Smith and Al Horford and was partially responsible (shockingly poor talent evaluation being the other factor) for the team’s lack of depth. .
I blame Rick and Woody for those contracts. And now we are stuck with Marvin, and had to give up 2 first round picks to get rid of Bibby.
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2011/05/2010-11-season-review-rick-sund.html/
doc
May 21st, 2011
3:25 pm
northcyde:
@ stretch . . . I don’t know where that tweet came from, but the idea from that probably didn’t come from Josh Smith or the Hawks. It probably came off of something said off of a Hawks blog or message board. Those national writers are a joke with their “unnamed sources”, knowing that all they do is read the fan blogs and try to make up a story from that.
well NC it comes from here:
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/05/21/hawks-and-josh-smith-may-have-had-enough-of-each-other/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog
none other than jeff schultz said it and it is so true, the guy gets thrashed for doing better than the primary stud jj and you continue to defend jj saying he may continue to be stable with a chronic injury that limits him and then neglect to offer similar attributes to josh who continues each summer to go back and tweak each year like no other hawk jj included and you say he will decline quicker? i saw some adjustments in josh’s game even during the playoffs but i am sure he is tired of having the zero on his back and as jeff says, he is our best trade bait.
personally after arguing his value in a trade last year i would like the core to stay together with LD and work on his system to perfect it as we saw in spurts when run it does work. unfortunately the three captains undo it with jj being as prime a target when he gets tired and fails to run off screens goes iso and doesnt attempt to get the open shot like two guards are supposed to do in the ray allen mold and designed for the motion offense of LD. jj better come up with a new jig too as he is in decline clearly and shouldnt be expected to be anything more than htat based on the numbers northcyde posted today.
my thoughts, next year josh will have trade value with an expiring and LD will have either made his mark or not. that will be the best time to begin change again, not now when the team has shown when rested they can be among the best and if given a few more horses can compete for the top three in the east.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2011
3:45 pm
“With both Horford and Smith seeing 69% of their made field goals coming off of assists, you’d have to wonder how Horford or Smith would function as the main guy, if JJ wasn’t here? ”
With the Hawks finally having a real point guard around to run the show, that 69% figure isn’t necessarily going to drop if Joe is not here. Teague’s emergence, provided that LD allows it to continue, changes a lot of things when it comes to evaluating the future of this team.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
Thanks for the link, doc.
Jeff Schultz:”I spoke to him (Josh Smith) the day following one bad shooting performance in the playoffs and Josh said, “I know sometimes I take shots I shouldn’t. But I’m not the only one in here who takes bad shots. I just get talked about more than anybody else.”.
And Josh is right. He is not the only one. But his should be the easiest to correct (imo). However, 7 years later, he is still doing it.
And I dont think this core of players is the right personnel to execute LD’s system. A change is needed (imo).
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
4:55 pm
CP – That’s my point – I think we are in for a loser of a summer. If we go after a couple of the vet minimum FA’s, I will be shocked.
I hope ASG shocks me.
But I fully expect us to be discussing Alade Aminu, Richard Hendrix, Magnum Rolle, Hilton Armstrong, Pape Sy (And he’s looked ok to me in the few minutes I saw him play. Looked terrible in Summer League however before injury struck), Sergie Gladyr, and our 2nd pick to fill out the roster.
Hope I’m wrong, we’ll see.
Northcyde – Was Pendefraft with Sund in Seattle? Pendegraft looks like he knows how to draft from what I’ve seen.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
4:57 pm
Forgot Trey Gilder in the search for a wing…..
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:00 pm
I’ve been screamin’ we don’t have the skill set for the Motion O since last Sept.
We have the skill set to play Mike D’Antoni ball. Maybe that’s why LD doesn’t like Teague and played Bibby. Bibby had the skill set for slow ball, Teague for Athletic ball.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:03 pm
Northcyde – I agree about JJ being a B player. I also agree he’s not going to age badly unless an injury strikes. His skill set doesn’t require speed so much as good shooting, ht. and solid bulk to post up SG’s.
In the East, unless there are major trades, I don’t see anybody taking his All Star spot in the foreseeable future. Ray Allen? Stephen Jackson?, Landry Fields? Maybe Evan Turner, or if Iggy was a 2.
Now DWade’s skill set won’t age well unless he develops a J. Speed and an inside game for a 6-4 guy doesn’t last very long in the NBA.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:09 pm
Top SG’s currently in the Eastern Conference:
DWade
JJ
DeRozan
Ray Allen
Jamal
Salmone
Gordon
You may want to put Jackson in the conversation somewhere also. But unless DeRozan or Turner really develop, JJ get’s hurt, or a trade is made, I don’t really see JJ losing his All Star spot in the next year or 2.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:20 pm
How bad the Center situation is in the Eastern Conference:
Out of 15 teams
ZaZa is 10th in scoring among Centers at 4.4 Points per game during the regular season.
Only 7 Centers in the East averaged more than 7 points per game.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:25 pm
Josh Smith is way up the charts at PF in the 15 teams of the Eastern Conference:
You have Amare
Then Josh and Chris Bosh
Then you have Garnett and Brand
Then JJ Hickson and Thad Young
Josh should get his 1st All Star berth next season. Garnett’s too old, and his coach is not picking the subs next season
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:28 pm
Marvin was actually 7th in scoring among SF’s in the East
And JJ was 2nd in scoring among SG’s in the East.
Worthless info, but may help put things in perspective
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
5:32 pm
My concern – We keep LD, get Princeton Motion skill set which equals soft usually, and we get the Indy Pacers frontline: Troy Murphy, Josh McRoberts, Jeff Foster, and throw in a Alexis Ajinca, and don’t get a fierce rebounder D kind of guy we need.
Now Foster is tough, and I don’t mind McRoberts, I just hope we don’t build our team any more soft than it is.
And with Al talking like Bargnani, that’s not a good sign.
We then fire LD, and we have the softs, whose best athletic days are behind them.
That is my concern
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
6:41 pm
@ Doc . . . I still say that is Schultz just reading in between the lines and trying to make a bigger issue out of something that isn’t there. Until Josh says “I want to be traded”, it’s all just wild speculation. Smith may feel slighted, but I don’t think he’s feels slighted enough to want to leave Atlanta.
But let’s say Schultz is right.
If Josh welcomes a trade, he’s naive if he thinks that if he goes to another team, and continues to miss jumpers, that those fans and media won’t talk about him there either. Matter of fact, depending on where he goes, the media scrutiny would be 10 times worse in a city like New York, than it would be in Atlanta.
Plus all of the national media guys see the flaws in his game. And it’s not like they’ll stop calling his flaws out. The more he’s on TNT, the more that Barkley and Kenny Smith will call him out for shooting jumpers. Everybody can see that he probably shouldn’t be shooting jumpers at all.
It’s Smith that refuses to see it, and adjust his game accordingly. After January, he finished 15 – 58 from three . . and shot 3 – 24 from three in the playoffs. That’s 18 – 82 ( 22% ) from 3 . . and he expects fans and the national media not to gripe about that?
What Josh needs to realize is that before this season, he was arguably THE WORST jumpshooter in the league amongst guys who aren’t true post players.
THE WORST.
And there is plenty of data that backs that up. But Smith continues to chuck up jumper after jumper. Why?
Why not just improve his post game, and start dominating other PFs and especially SFs down there? Why settle for jumpers that the opponent is leaving you wide open to take? There’s a reason why he’s wide open all the time. It has to register with him at some point.
I personally thought that Josh was going to make the All-Star team. But because he kept on shooting jumpers, he cost himself a spot.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
6:55 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2011
3:45 pm
“With both Horford and Smith seeing 69% of their made field goals coming off of assists, you’d have to wonder how Horford or Smith would function as the main guy, if JJ wasn’t here? ”
With the Hawks finally having a real point guard around to run the show, that 69% figure isn’t necessarily going to drop if Joe is not here. Teague’s emergence, provided that LD allows it to continue, changes a lot of things when it comes to evaluating the future of this team.
*****************
Really?
So without JJ here, who becomes the go-to scorer? Or do we just put the ball in Teague’s hands, and let him be the go-to scorer?
Regardless of what people think about JJ or Jamal and their ISOs, the facts are that when the going got tough, they could at least create their own shot and make it at times. Without a shot creator, who is going to take that shot if Teague can’t get into the lane? Is it pick and roll with Teague and Horford/Smith at the end of games?
Nah Najeh. With no JJ here, either Horford or Smith are going to have to become better shot creators on their own. Without that, we’d be dead in the water when playoff time came, just like how Denver died.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2011
7:13 pm
“Regardless of what people think about JJ or Jamal and their ISOs, the facts are that when the going got tough, they could at least create their own shot and make it at times. ”
The going will get tough a lot less often if the team stops relying on players who are of league-average efficiency in iso situations to run isos as often as they do.
“Is it pick and roll with Teague and Horford/Smith at the end of games?”
Hell yes. Emphasis on “roll”. Regardless of whether or not Joe is a Hawk next year this is what the Hawks should do at the end of games.
“With no JJ here, either Horford or Smith are going to have to become better shot creators on their own. Without that, we’d be dead in the water when playoff time came, just like how Denver died.”
The playoffs are going on right now and we are currently dead in the water, and a big reason for it is that the Hawks just lost a six-game series in which isolating Joe and Jamal worked in exactly one of them. You really think if Denver was the East 5 seed and the Hawks were the West 5 seed that the Hawks wouldn’t have lost to the Thunder and Denver wouldn’t have advanced to the second round?
I think Joe brings enough to the table as a complementary piece on both ends of the floor that the ideal situation involves him just taking a back seat offensively (or at least riding shotgun), rather than trading him. But I have no way of knowing whether his ego will allow him to do that. Not a criticism of Joe, just an observation on human nature. People in positions of power, even if that power is as inconsequential as being the number one offensive option, generally don’t like to give it up.
Slimjr
May 21st, 2011
7:14 pm
“As for Rick Sund . . . I do not trust his evaluation of players, especially big men.
When you draft guys like Saer Sene, Robert Swift, and Johan Petro . . ALL AS 1ST ROUND PICKS . . you really have to question that dude’s judgement when it comes to evaluating big man talent.
Sund has to go. Drew needs to go. And one of “the core” probably has to go . . in order for this team to progress to that next level.”
@ Northcyde, I totally cosign with your assessment of management..
Sund is a weak GM, always has been, 31 years of yawns and LasVegas Larry is a jacked up HEAD COACH!!!
Allstar-Al for the 2011 #2 Lottery Pick, Derrick Williams! A Star!!! The Next Kobe? Huh?
I will bet that Larry benches JT!!! Cause he’s will………….
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2011
7:26 pm
I just don’t see the point in worrying about having “shot creators” when the “shot creators” the Hawks currently have are not good enough to take the Hawks past a respectable second round defeat anyway. The four teams remaining have players of the caliber of Dirk, KD, LeBrick, D-Wade, and D-Rose creating shots for them. Joe is not and will never be even close to that level. Sure, those teams (and many other teams before them) have succeeded putting a go-to guy in that role. But why should the Hawks do that when they don’t have a player of that caliber?
Northcyde, you consistently talk about how the Hawks need to put their players in a position where they can succeed. Well, part of that is giving Joe a role on offense that is consistent with his ability rather than giving him a role consistent with Kobe’s ability.
Grandad
May 21st, 2011
7:27 pm
Either read the full Schultz article or don’t critique.
JS said nothing more than many, myself included,
have said on this board.
He’s a columnist….his jobis to rankle.
He says some pretty nice things about Josh
in his article which was mostly old quotes
with a re-tread.
___________________________________________________
Princeton / Motion / offense is not soft.
Where did anyone give anybody that idea ?
I’m not defending LD.
I wish for LH as a replacement.
Grandad
May 21st, 2011
7:32 pm
- Kenneth Faried -
“A lot of players are bigger and stronger than me,
but I have a quick first jump
and my second jump is probably more amazing
and is quicker than my first jump,” said Faried.
“I elevate off the floor pretty quickly and just keep going.
I’m relentless and that’s just the way I want to be.
It’s just how I am.”
I like this kid more every day !
Rusty
May 21st, 2011
7:41 pm
Nortcyde. Every time we depend on JJ he never comes through with any good play. The main thing I hate about his play is that he monopolizes the ball. What good is getting doubled & tripled teamed when he can’t make his shots,makes poor passes or gives the ball to someone on the perimeter with no time left. He stops all ball movement & is way to inconsistent with his shot making to be effective. It has always been proven in the past that this does not work,he is so slow in going to the hoop that he will always be double teamed,this is not a good thing. I feel that his effectiveness has been going downhill for the last 2 years, I know that you always come up with a lot of stats that really don’t show the real picture. I don’t believe that we can improve with JJ as our number 1 option.
Rusty
May 21st, 2011
7:47 pm
A lot of team in the NBA seem to have a lot better ball movement than we have & seem to get a lot more open & easier shots while we seem to be taking a lot more jumpshots & forced shots. This is why we need to put the ball in the hands of a quick penetrating pg like jt. I don’t think kh is that good of a penetrating quick pg.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2011
9:19 pm
northcyde,
It would be nice if he can find a way to draw more fouls in the future. Even if it’s how Paul Pierce draws fouls. We need him getting to the line 5 – 6 times a game..
For his career, JJ averages 3.3 FTA per game. is there any reason to believe that after 11 years in the league, he will all of a sudden change his game to get 5-6 FTA per game?
Isnt that the same thing as Josh being Josh for 7 years, and expecting him to change his game?
I think JJ has 3 more good years in him, but I think the last 2 years of his contract will be highly regrettable, since he will be owed $48 mil.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2011
9:21 pm
Melvin,
When the Cavs were “allegedly” interested in Marvin, it was in a sign and trade for Shaq, which means the Cavs would not lose anybody on their roster.
If they wanted to trade for Marvin now, they would have to give up somebody on their roster, which I dont think they will, and I dont see them using their TPE on Marvin.
Also, they have the #1 pick and the #4 pick. They can draft a SF Derrick Williams, and then take a PG (Brandon Knight maybe) with the 4th pick.
Booo!
May 21st, 2011
9:29 pm
Check this out on Sergiy – http://youtu.be/t2n6sGrzKPg (4:07 – 5:18, 6:50 – 7:58, 9:05 – 10:25)
I feel a lot better about letting Jamal Walk now. Dude is the next Peja and FIBA Swithced to NBA 3pt range this past season so that’s NBA range. Dude is pure.
I say we dump Marvin on Cleveland. I beleive they have a 14mill Trade exception. Sign Tayshaun Prince, try to get our hands on a Center etc.
Only Trade smoove if you’re getting back Andre Igoudala, Rudy Gay, or Pau Gasol.
Pape Sy will draw fouls well with PT, we need to use him. He’s taller than Damien at 6′7 and the only way drew will play him him is if Wilkins is NOT brought back. With Prince, we wont need him on the roster anyway.
I think Kirk is good for the team but if the right deal arises he shouls be dealt as well.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
9:30 pm
Grandad – You are correct about the Motion O not being soft. I was thinking what you said I as I typed.
But I was also thinking about what the Hawks need – a new Coach
I’m just concerned we are going to try and construct something based on LD’s offense, which doesn’t play to our current strength’s, then fire LD, and we’ll be stuck with a perimeter oriented team even more so than now.
Sorry I gave the wrong impresseion.
But if we are going to keep LD, I wouldn’t mind a Mike Dunleavy and/or a Josh McRoberts. At least those guys can pass and pop.
Al just discouraged me with his off season plan – more range on his J. I know he mentioned foot work and things later, but that’s tops on his mind.
So “Lion” becomes Andrea Bargnani – not what the Hawks need. We need some paint players.
And we are not a team of jumpshooters. We are a team of wanna be jumpshooters in many instances.
We need some cutters and slashers going to the basket.
And we need some low post O.
We have enough of the soft
And I know a true motion O has tons of cuts to the baskets – we just pass it around the perimeter for the open J too many times – and that is not our skill set at all.
Booo!
May 21st, 2011
9:33 pm
Check this out on Sergiy –
http://youtu.be/t2n6sGrzKPg 4:07 – 5:18, 6:50 – 7:58, 9:05 – 10:25
I feel a lot better about letting Jamal Walk now. Dude is the next Peja and FIBA Swithced to NBA 3pt range this past season so that’s NBA range. Dude is pure.
I say we dump Marvin on Cleveland. I beleive they have a 14mill Trade exception. Sign Tayshaun Prince, try to get our hands on a Center etc.
Only Trade smoove if you’re getting back Andre Igoudala, Rudy Gay, or Pau Gasol.
Pape Sy will draw fouls well with PT, we need to use him. He’s taller than Damien at 6′7 and the only way drew will play him him is if Wilkins is NOT brought back. With Prince, we wont need him on the roster anyway.
I think Kirk is good for the team but if the right deal arises he shouls be dealt as well.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
9:35 pm
Al needs to develop a drop step, better handles, and some monster low post moves, even if he thinks he’s a 4.
Josh needs to be money 15 feet and in, and needs to go back to the 7 trey season he had. Get some more post moves in the arsenal.
Marvin needs to become money from mid -range. Don’t laugh. Hinrich was known as a mediocre shooter from midrange until he was 29 or 30. He’s just developed that part of his game.
JJ needs to go back to the old JJ shooting, except for the “ground and pound” iso. OB, point well taken about JJ driving to the hoop. Most guys say its too much wear and tear on the body to go inside in the NBA. But a couple more times a game would help for JJ, Al, Josh and Marvin. Kirk and Teague for that matter.
Teague and Hinrich can be quality floor generals for this team.
Booo!
May 21st, 2011
9:35 pm
With Guys like Durant, Kobe, Deng (Baisically long and annoying offensive players) I beleive us aquiring Tayshaun Prince is a must in order for us to move up in the east.
Booo!
May 21st, 2011
9:42 pm
Sirgey is a true role player. The Kid is a jumpshooter through and through. Run him off screeens or whatever. just get him open looks and He shouldnt go cold like the streaky Jamal who is just a scorer.
This works out better if you ask me. Sy/Teague for drawing fouls in the paint and Gladyr/Hinrich for shooting. Prince for lockdown peremeter D/better shoting than marvin. Smoove/Horford/Al for general scoring.
Now all we need is a better version of Zaza to hold down the middle. I’m all for verajeao but how do you get him without giving up too much? Also, he is comiong of of a torn achilles tendon. Something to think about.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
9:46 pm
Al – Athlete
Josh – Athlete
Marvin – Athlete
JJ – Athlete
Teague – Athlete
ZaZa – For 275 – Athlete
So we get an Offense, that yes, correctly run requires stamina. But with our guys aversion to the hoop and the post, and lack of willingness to cut, bad offense for us. And i think the regular season showed that.
Get us running, and we’re hard to beat. But I know, playoff bb is about the 1/2 court game. But if Parker, Manu, and Duncan can get it going in San Antonio, we should be able to also.
New nickname for Al – The Little Fundamental.
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
9:46 pm
Booo! Gladyr looked terrible in Summer League. Very slow for the NBA game.
But I hope your correct – if he turned into a smaller Peja – good for us!
SteveW
May 21st, 2011
9:51 pm
Booo! I was reading a scouting report on Sy and the only positive it listed on O was he could get to the rim at will, and draw fouls. I think that is correct about him, and there is a place in the NBA for guys that can drive to the hoop and play D.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
10:15 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2011
7:26 pm
I just don’t see the point in worrying about having “shot creators” when the “shot creators” the Hawks currently have are not good enough to take the Hawks past a respectable second round defeat anyway. The four teams remaining have players of the caliber of Dirk, KD, LeBrick, D-Wade, and D-Rose creating shots for them. Joe is not and will never be even close to that level. Sure, those teams (and many other teams before them) have succeeded putting a go-to guy in that role. But why should the Hawks do that when they don’t have a player of that caliber?
Northcyde, you consistently talk about how the Hawks need to put their players in a position where they can succeed. Well, part of that is giving Joe a role on offense that is consistent with his ability rather than giving him a role consistent with Kobe’s ability.
******************************
Najeh . . that’s not consistent with what the NBA is about though. Even John Salmons was a “shot creator” when we played the Bucks. You simply have to have multiple guys who can get their own shot when the play breaks down. And it would be nice if the team could have shot creators out on the perimeter and on the inside.
Defenses can be designed to shut down individual players and offensive systems. So the only thing that can overcome that sometimes, are guys who can create and make their own shots. Heck, even Teague was a shot creator during the playoffs, and it paid dividends. But we didn’t have one on the inside, and that killed us.
You simply have to have them on your team, whether it be guys who can get the ball out top and knock down tough jumpers, or guys who can get into the lane and score, or guys who can get the ball down on the blocks and score in the post.
Plays should be run for JJ so that he can catch the ball and shoot, or get it in the post, or catch it and immediately get into the lane. But he’s also shown the ability to take and make tough shots all throughout his career . . even in this year’s playoffs. So you don’t take that away from him either.
I got no problem with less ISO. But when a play breaks down, you get the ball to your best shot creator, and let him go. There’s no way that with the makeup of this current team, that JJ can be a complimentary player.
Teague can control the offense. If he can play like a true PG, I have no problem with that. It’s just that he has to get the ball to the scorers in the right spots. But any offense that doesn’t have JJ taking the most shots amongst these collection of players, is an offense doomed for failure. Instead of reaching the 2nd round, we’re 1 and done in the 1st round.
We need more shot creators on this team . . period. Preferably on the inside.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
10:26 pm
@ Rusty . . . we don’t win a single playoff game without JJ doing what he did this year. Not one. The lack of a consistent interior scoring game forces our guards to do what they have to do to score points for the team. So talk about JJ all you want. We get SWEPT by Chicago, if it wasn’t for him. And we don’t beat Orlando without him either.
It’s funny. People don’t want JJ to try to play like a superstar . . but get mad when he doesn’t play like a superstar. Upgrade the overall talent on this team, and balance it out, and maybe some of you can take some of the offensive responsibilities away from JJ.
northcyde
May 21st, 2011
10:32 pm
@ O’Brien . . . no doubt on that. Asking JJ to up his FTs to 6 a game would be like asking Smith to play in the point 80% of the time. Maybe if he played the 3, he’d draw more fouls. But like everyone else on the team not named Zaza, he’s kind of “contact shy” ( aka SOFT ) himself.
hawksfancents95
May 21st, 2011
10:36 pm
i hope the cba gets figured out in a timely manner. id like to see the hawks be proactive this offseason with our hawks doing so well in the playoffs and just one step(it seems) from being a true contender for the eastern conference and making a finals appaerance. with very little cap room it seems everyone is thinking we need to trade josh or al. i love both guys as they have contributed in different ways to getting us to where we are now.
josh +’s
athletic, can play the 3 and 4, IQ, blocks and steals, showed he can play at high level in playoffs,from atl
josh -’s
shot selection, lacadaisical, whines if he doesnt get call, FT consistancy
al +’s
energy, hard worker,gets dirty, developed jumper, rebounding
al -’s
6′9 C, not known for inside offenseive game, good not great IQ, hard to contribute offensively if not hittin J’s
I think if the hawks decide to part with one of the two it would make more since to part with al. He has a high trade value as a 2 time all-star(somewhat by default but he did work for it) as we saw in game 6 of the bulls series by scoring only 73 pts, we need offense. With jamal probobley not resigning we really need someone to help joe and josh get our points. if we part with josh not only will we give up offense but a lot of the hawks fan base will feel torn by that decision. I believe that L.D and Sund will be back after all the cba gets figured out and im ok with that. As a huge hawks fan ive stuck with the team through the early 2000s, and to see this team now, so close to the finals, it would be upsetting to see us not try to add a few neccessary pieces to give us the team required to win the O’Brien.
*oh ya/ a few names of FA maybe we could sign (mostly bench help)
Jarred Jeffries backup PF
Josh McRoberts backup PF
Troy Murphy backup PF/ maybe he finds new life can go 15&7 as starting C
Kwame Brown- might sign for more than we can afford
Sheldon Williams- (just kidding)
Ryan Hollins=poorer Javale Mcgee
My Dream Hawks trade
AL for Monta Ellis/throw in a 1st or 2nd if they wont take it straight up
*get better MC* i need more posts so i got something to read during work
Worldwide Clyde
May 21st, 2011
11:08 pm
Every year yall come with these crazy trades and free agents we need to sign.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2011
11:26 pm
Damn, Nick Collison is really underrated.
Jae Evolution
May 22nd, 2011
12:40 am
Some steals I think are very makeable in the draft for us having a late pick. If we are looking to get a big that would would rebound block shots and run the floor we could go for Keith Benson who has a crazy vertical leap and is legit 6′11. Another big that could be very good for us is Nikola Vucevic he averaged a double double this season for USC and is as close to 7 feet (6′11.75) as we’re going to get with all the undersized positions we have, I think we should go after this guy for sure with our pick.
If we are looking at guards there is Isaiah Thomas who I think will be there regardless of how late our pick is. But someone who I think is being overlooked big time in this draft is Reggie Jackson. Didn’t play for a big school but put up great numbers, arguable that he isn’t a true PG but neither was Teague and look how he played when given a chance.
I doubt Reggie drops this low and I think we should pick either of the bigs above but he would be a great choice that late.
Grandad
May 22nd, 2011
1:00 am
SG is more athletic than Redick.
He will never be Tony Allen on defense
but he is what he is.
“a shot maker”
A perfect fit for a real motion offense;
if indeed that’s what LD has in mind.
SteveW had it right,
where are the -Hard- screens away from the ball,
with cuts to the basket ?
SG / Serg glad
Grandad
May 22nd, 2011
1:02 am
[..I left this out..]
SG is more athletic than Redick:
per scout reports.
excellent vert leap.
Buddy Grizzard
May 22nd, 2011
1:23 am
Soon as we start talking about Josh Smith here comes Jeff Shultz with a column saying the Hawks should trade him because he shoots too many threes. If I was Josh, I would want out of Atlanta as well. The guy shoots threes because that’s the way the offense is designed, shoots them better than Joe Johnson, and gets labeled a villain for it. Meanwhile Joe says “I don’t care if the fans show up,” has the second worst shooting percentage among active players in win-or-go-home playoff games, and gets rewarded with a $120m contract.
The Hawks biggest problem is the absence of a championship culture. This culture includes equal accountability for everyone involved, and the Hawks have nothing like that. The biggest reason for this is the hiring of Larry Drew. Contrast this with the Bulls, also coached by a rookie head coach. But you can’t question the fact that the Bulls have a championship culture.
So I wonder what kind of garbage we’re going to get for our best player.
Ramon
May 22nd, 2011
9:23 am
The deal I’ve thought of is a high risk high reward type of move. I would considered a trade of Al and Marvin for Roy, Camby, and the rights to Oden
sam'l
May 22nd, 2011
9:28 am
Seeing Teague mentioned in an alleged sexual assault dampens my enthusiasm for the Hawks next year.
I agree….it’s purely an emotional reaction.
doc
May 22nd, 2011
9:36 am
ramon, that is as dangerous was asking ryder to come back here for steve smith. roy has no cartilage in either knee and oden has a broken body from head to toe, throw in camby whose body is too old? you better have good insurance to cover those salaries.
Ramon
May 22nd, 2011
10:12 am
Doc keyword is consider meaning investigate. And if my doctors thought either of them could duplicate their old selves or be productive I would be tempted. To me the ultimate trade is still Al and Macintosh for Gasoline with acquiring a center in free agency along with Prince
I MUS WRITE
May 22nd, 2011
11:08 am
Ramon who is this gasoline u speak of?
I MUS WRITE
May 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
Do we really expect our players to come back next year greatly improved………..NO !!!! Marvin will still be who we know him to be. Al will add a few pounds but will still lack the post moves/game we need- and yes He’ll keep shooting that jumper get used to it- Josh- no comment
Clyde u know the routine around here were all arm chair GM’s when the season is over. All we have is hopes n dreams o of what could be – because we dont make major moves in the off season. normally its Joe smith,Resign collins, Hilton armstrong etc etc
With that said here is my crazy trade lol……….
JJ/ Heinrich/Marvin/2012 2nd to Denver for NeNe/ Gallanari/Afflalo
Sign AAron Brooks
Teague
Afflalo
Josh
AL
NeNe
Bench-Brooks,ZaZA,Galanarri,Sye,Collins, FA -SG
Ramon
May 22nd, 2011
12:13 pm
Al and Marvin for P Gasol. Typing on phone
Najeh Davenpoop
May 22nd, 2011
12:23 pm
Al and Macintosh for Gasoline? I know gas prices are through the roof but damn…
ant banks
May 22nd, 2011
12:48 pm
IMUS,
why in the hell would denver go for that? WHEN MAKIN’ TRADE PROPOSALS, PLEASE MAKE IT MAKE SENSE FOR BOTH TEAMS.
all of the trade proposals that i have seen on here are severely favorin’ the hawks, which is wasteful typin’ and readin’. I DO ENJOY READIN’ THE TRADE PROPOSALS THAT MAKE SENSE FOR BOTH TEAMS
ant banks
May 22nd, 2011
12:49 pm
BERNARD HOPKINS has to be one of the ignorantest mf’s on the planet. he ripped donovan mcnabb for not bein’ “black enough.” wtf does that mean? i guarauantee you that b hop kids are not livin’ the way that bernard did, so are his own kids not black enough? smf
O'Brien
May 22nd, 2011
3:24 pm
Ramon,
IMO, there are too many issues.
Lakers already have Ron Artest for 3 years, $22 mil, so I dont think they would want Marvin, who is also owed 3 years, $22 mil.
And in addition to paying JJ big money, can the Hawks afford Gasol’s remaining salary, 3 years, $57 mil?
And where do we play Gasol? Center? he is better at PF.
I MUS WRITE
May 22nd, 2011
4:20 pm
Ant banks I’ll throw in ZAZA if it makes u happy……. O and you are about two weeks late on the Bernard hopkins story try to keep up why dont you. Or maybe Lil Ant cant use the computer when mommy aient home……..FAIL
O'Brien
May 22nd, 2011
8:48 pm
Steve Kerr talking about Mike Bibby. “His post season struggles continue.” And to think, if Bibby was still a Hawk, he would probably still have started over Teague…SMH at LD.
Bibby is shooting 26% from the field in the playoffs, 23% from 3.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 22nd, 2011
8:59 pm
Drum Circle!
At Siesta Keys – Sarasota, FLA on the beach chilling to the drum circle with about 4K people and live belly dancers. So kewl. Life is Good.
What’s up with my Hawks? Anything SOLD yet?
Worldwide Clyde
May 22nd, 2011
9:13 pm
drmaryb post a bikini pic of you on the beach.
The Hawks ain’t gonna make no moves yall. Stop wit the trades and free agent we need to sign. This will be our squad.
pg- Hinrich
sg- Joe
sf – Marvin
pf- Jsmoove
c – Horford
Bench – Teague, Sy, Gladyr, Damien, Zaza, Collins, Powell, 2nd round draft pick
Spirit Group ain’t gonna make no major moves until the Thrashers are sold. Same old routine next year without Jamal.
hawkfan
May 22nd, 2011
10:13 pm
seeing bibby play well in the heat game, it’s hard not to cheer for him when the ball goes in
SteveW
May 22nd, 2011
10:24 pm
ATL’s idea of a Motion O about 80% of the time – Swing the ball outside:
Ball swings to JJ – He holds it to long to decide what to do – rarely drives
Ball swings to Josh – Shoot
Ball swings to Al – He will square up his man, and usually shoot, but sometimes a nice dish. He won’t drive to the hole.
Ball swings to Marvin – he ditches it like a hot potato usually
Jamal will dribble, back out, pretend to drive and shoot a weird shot that goes in many times.
Or there’s the pretend motion O we run – We swing it around the perimeter for 22 seconds, then hoist a terrible shot or get a shot clock violation.
Every so often we run the real Motion O, and is a beauty to watch.
But all too rare.
O'Brien
May 22nd, 2011
10:25 pm
Worldwide Clyde,
Bench – Teague, Sy, Gladyr, Damien, Zaza, Collins, Powell, 2nd round draft pick.
Dont be surprised if the Hawks second round pick spends next season overseas. And I dont know if Gladyr is ready to come over. I think the Hawks are more likely to sign a player for the vet minimum
SteveW
May 22nd, 2011
10:26 pm
Northcyde – Agreed we need more shot creators. Look at the Heat with DWade and LeBron, or OKC with Durant and Westbrook, and also Harden.
Those two teams may lose their series, but they do create matchup nightmares for opposing teams.
And we did also with JJ and Jamal
SteveW
May 22nd, 2011
10:42 pm
My analysis of Josh Smith:
Josh has a decent low post game.
He’s just at a stage in his career with knee injuries, and a loss of athleticism, he really needs to consider bulking up, working on his game from15 feet on in, being 6-7 255 of chiseled muscle and be a 22 and 12 guy for the next 5-7 years of his career.
But he has a problem. He he plays on a team with a 5 who desperately wants to be a 4. So I think Josh thinks his future on the Hawks is as a 3. Josh is a much better NBA 4 than 3 both offensively and defensively in my opinion.
So we basically have a team with two 4’s, as has been observed ad naseum on this blog.
Josh is not that far away from being a modern Buck Williams, Charles Barkely, Karl Malone kind of hybrid.
I think if he would use this summer to perfect some low post moves, and play 15 feet on in on O, he could be a dominant All Star for the next 5 years or so.
Otherwise, I see a tweener 3-4 who is frustrating Coach’s, fans, and probably himself, and costing himself a brilliant career in exchange for a very good career.
And i don’t care if Al improves his range. 80% of his summer needs to be working on his low post game also. We have the tools to be a grind it out, physical playoff basketball team. I’m just concerned our players are going to misuse their talents in a different direction.
SteveW
May 22nd, 2011
10:49 pm
With Al and Josh’s passing abilities, could you imagine the nightmare they would cause if they both played the low block?
Could you imagine if Al reported this next season 6-10 260 and ripped?
And Josh reported 6-8 255 and ripped?
And both said “We’ve been working on our low post game. We aim to grab every rebound and punish every slasher?”
I think ATL fans would faint
Grandad
May 22nd, 2011
11:18 pm
SteveW
I imagine ‘roids will make your “bollocks” shrink.
KevinM
May 22nd, 2011
11:29 pm
OB, the one statement you just made re: Bibby should be just cause for LD not returning, That along with a team who underachiever all year only to finally show ’some’ heart in the playoffs.
No way I let LD run this team further in the ground.
And Bibby is living on borrowed time in Miami.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 23rd, 2011
12:33 am
Nitro-Glycerin!
Yeah Worldwide! I could do that but, you’re gonna’ need to put that pill under your tongue. -wink-
___________
You stoopid boy. Naw man … The Hawks aren’t going to do diddly squat until they are shamefully forced to do so. All the excuses are lined up for these 8 feces throwing orangutans to – do nothing!
The CBA
The SALE
The FANS
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
12:52 am
Prediction for Bulls – Heat Series:
Bulls in 6, unless Rose, Boozer or somebody significant gets hurt for the Bulls.
Why?
They now begin playing every other night. No more long layoffs. This very much favors the Bulls, with the deeper bench.
Haslem is the difference maker so far in this series. We’ll see how well he continues to hold up with the every other night format.
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
12:56 am
15 weeks between June 1st and Sept. 15th.
Al can easily gain 1 lb. of muscle per week until then, and actually increase his agility and speed.
Josh can easily gain .667 lbs. of muscle per week until then and do the same.
It just takes the right training regiment. These guys have the bucks, so cost in not an issue.
And both can improve their handles also. Dribble with the off hand.
You just gotta have the want to – Great book by Alan Oggs
northcyde
May 23rd, 2011
2:14 am
@ SteveW
I was almost convinced that we could win with those two playing alongside each other.
That their skill could make up for their lack of size, if only they’d play bigger.
But when it became apparent that both guys wanted to play on the outside, I thought that could lead to trouble. That fear was validated by the time the All-Star break came around.
If we keep both guys, one of them is going to have to start playing more in the paint. And since Horford has the better outside shot, that guy has to be Smith. But we can’t have both of them playing on the outside, and expect to be successful as a team. SOMEBODY has to battle.
That free agent low post scoring and defending PF or center isn’t going to walk through that door, because of our financial constraints. We’re not going to be able to afford him. So if we don’t trade for a low post scoring/defending PF or C, Horford or Smith MUST decide to play much more on the inside.
It sure would be nice at time, that, instead of running ISO all the time down the stretch up top, that we could throw the ball into the post, and let Smith or Horford go ISO down on the blocks and score that way. And if they couldn’t score, they’d be able to pass it out to a shooter ( who may be wide open ). Like you said, both guys are good passers out of the post.
But if they can’t consistently score down on the block, they won’t consistently draw double teams, and the passing lanes won’t be there.
If we keep Smith and Horford together, Smith must be the guy that plays more on the low block, while Horford must get tougher defensively and be able to guard bigger centers.
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
7:55 am
KevinM,
The Bibby situation also falls on Rick too, because he was the one who signed Bibby to a 3 year guaranteed deal. If he was an expiring contract, he would have been easier to trade, and would probably not have costed us 2 first round picks.
northcyde,
And if they couldn’t score, they’d be able to pass it out to a shooter ( who may be wide open )..
Agreed. But who on this team would you consider a “shooter”? I dont think we have any, and that goes back to Rick and his mismanagement of the roster. Where are the role players?
Question for you. Do you think we have the personnel to execute a motion offense consistently?
Trojan
May 23rd, 2011
10:12 am
If Larry was the right coach, we would not be having the conversation about someone needing to play on the inside.
We need leadership.
JoJo the Godfather
May 23rd, 2011
11:43 am
As far as shooters, a motivated Joe Johnson & Kirk Hinrich both shot 42% from 3 in the playoffs this year, but did it by only making just over 1 a game. That’s all we got.
Gladyr’s shooting 35% from 3 for the season.
JoJo the Godfather
May 23rd, 2011
11:47 am
I don’t expect Chicago to win another game. Heat in 5. Chicago is behind, is inexperienced, and is facing a much more athletic team. The only depth that matters is that Miami has 3 all-stars that can score, and Chicago has 1. Chicago doesn’t have enough fire power to keep up. Their only hope is for a guy like Korver to catch fire and hit like 7 threes in a game.
Sautee
May 23rd, 2011
12:18 pm
JoJO,
That’s what I see as well.
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
12:19 pm
JoJo – We’ll see. I understand about Chitown being inexperienced.
I just don’t think Miami has the depth to keep up against the Bulls over the long haul.
Indy should’ve won at least another game, yet by the 5th game, Chicago had taken control.
ATL should’ve gone up 2-0 in the series, but by the last 2 games, Chicago had taken control.
Asik, Gibson, Watson, and those guys are still fresh. Chicago’s 11 man rotation just wears folks down.
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
12:21 pm
Now I could be letting my anti-Miami bias slant my vision….
I try to be objective, but I am still human
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
12:23 pm
But I still see Miami wilting with only one off day from now on. The longer the series goes, the more it favors the Bulls.
Unless Rose goes out or something
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
1:03 pm
Before the playoffs started, I picked the Bulls to win this series. But after the first 3 games, I’m not so sure anymore. Rose is finding out what LeBron found out in Cleveland. One terrific player is not enough in the playoffs when you go up against a team with multiple terrific players.
Remember, LeBron won the MVP in Cleveland (just like Rose won with the Bulls), and Cleveland won a bunch of games and was the #1 seed (just like the Bulls).
But when the Cavs went up against a veteran team with a big 3 (Boston) LeBron was not enough to get them over the hump. And now Rose is up against a big two and half.
The Bulls are still learning, and once the Heat (who are a very good defensive team) clamp down on Rose, who on the Bulls can create their own shot?
And that is what Northcyde talks about with the Hawks needing Jamal and JJ. When you play good defensive teams, the offense will struggle at times. And when it does, you need multiple guys who can create their own shot. Miami has 2 (James and Wade), but the Bulls only have one (Rose). And this is only Rose’s 3rd year in the playoffs, and his first year getting this far, so he is still learning.
I woldnt be surprised to see Miami win this series (but I am rooting for the Bulls).
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
1:19 pm
If in the playoffs we are seeing stars and defense win. Why would we trade our best defender and aarguably best player. For what its worth, Josh has still only been coached by woody and ld. He has yet to be coached by an experienced coach. So what if you traded horford for cp3 the hornets wont find a better deal. Then you are able to go out and get a center in dalembert. And possibly have Joe still on your roster to move for Dwight next year. But for this year you have a star who takes the ballout of Joe’s hands and makes the defense so much better
northcyde
May 23rd, 2011
1:37 pm
O’Brien
May 23rd, 2011
7:55 am
northcyde,
And if they couldn’t score, they’d be able to pass it out to a shooter ( who may be wide open )..
Agreed. But who on this team would you consider a “shooter”? I dont think we have any, and that goes back to Rick and his mismanagement of the roster. Where are the role players?
Question for you. Do you think we have the personnel to execute a motion offense consistently?
*****************
No we don’t have the personnel to execute the motion offense. And no we don’t have “shooters’. Even guys like JJ and Jamal can best be described as streak shooters from the outside. Marvin used to be a dependable midrange shooter 3 years ago, but he’s streaky as hell now too. Hinrich may be the best “shooter” on the team now. But we don’t have another guy on this team who could be considered a “shooter”. Not even a catch and shoot guy off the bench.
LOL . . we don’t have a slasher OR a shooter. That’s a damn shame.
As for the Bulls, that’s exactly what their problem is. They don’t have another reliable shot creator/maker. Rose can’t do it by himself. He’s essentially in the same situation that Lebron was in Cleveland. You need 2, even 3 guys who can get the job done with the ball in their hands.
If Miami wins the title in their 1st year together, you may see all of the top free agents from now on trying to group themselves with other good players who can’t get over the hump. That means Howard will go to LA to join Kobe . . and Paul will go to NYC to join Melo and Amare.
If the Heat win with 2 superstars, one star, and a bunch of scrubs, that should change how GMs who want to win a title, should think. It worked for Boston. It worked for LA once they got Gasol. And it may work for Miami.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
1:48 pm
I picked Miami in 7 in the conference finals before the playoffs started and I see no reason to back down from that now. The Bulls are just last year’s Cavs or the ‘01 Sixers reincarnated, but I do think they can win two more games in this series. You can’t win championships, though, when one guy has to shoulder all the offensive responsibility.
Where I disagree though is in the implication that the Hawks’ situation relates to either of these teams. The Heat have two guys who can create offense (three if you are a Bosh fan which I am not). The Bulls have one. At least against good teams, the Hawks have zero. Joe Johnson is not on that level. We have already seen the results when Joe is asked to be the go-to guy in the playoffs. And if not having a go-to guy means the Hawks can’t win a title, then so be it. It’s not like that conclusion contradicts what we all know about this team anyway.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
1:53 pm
I still think (hope?) that the winner of the West series will win it all. I had OKC doing that before the playoffs started but now it looks more like it will be the Mavs. The Mavs certainly have the firepower, depth, and physicality to keep up with the Heat; whether they have the athleticism is the question they will have to answer.
ILL-Logical
May 23rd, 2011
2:38 pm
2011 Playoff success factors: defense,depth and desire. Well to quote the immortal Eleanora Fagan..”Thems that got will get.. thems that don’t will lose”
Grandad
May 23rd, 2011
2:50 pm
Now I have to ask;
what type personnel best fits “motion offense” ?
Inquiring minds wanta’ know ?
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
2:52 pm
Grandad what team is usiing motion out of the court teams still playing
Grandad
May 23rd, 2011
3:27 pm
Ramon
If you mean the final four of:
Dallas, OkC, Myme, Chi.
answer = none
Grandad
May 23rd, 2011
3:29 pm
Ramon
My question was in reference to discussion between
SteveW -&- northcyde.
northcyde
May 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
The Hawks situation is the same situation that Minnesota was in back in the early 2000s. All they had was KG, Wally Szczerbiak, and Troy Hudson.
It wasn’t until they added reliable shot creators/makers like Sam Cassell and Latrell Spreewell ( two guys who couldn’t do it on their own all the time, but were good enough shot creators to win games on occasion ), that they made that leap from perennial 1st round and done playoff team, to a borderline championship caliber playoff team. If not for Sam Cassell’s injury, they may have beaten the Lakers in the WCF in 2004.
You add or develop more shotmakers to the Hawks, and we’ll advance further in the playoffs. And part of that is because we’ll play better during the regular season and have a better seed.
That’s the other thing that isn’t being discussed. The notion that the regular season doesn’t matter is straight BS. The regular season definitely matters, because it not only gives you more games on your home court, it enables you to possibly have an easier road in the playoffs.
Trojan
May 23rd, 2011
3:35 pm
I pick the ESPN Heat to beat the Chicago Bulls in 7 games. Then we will have the ESPN Heat playing the west team (who cares who). Hopefully the ESPN Heat will prevail because ESPN has already dispatched all of their reporters to cover the Heat and they have no one left to cover the other common teams.
Go Miami (ESPN) Heat!
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
3:38 pm
Ramon,
Assuming you are referring to Josh, he is not our best defender (imo). Josh is our best help/weak side defender, and he is our best defender of the rim. But overall, JJ is our best defender (imo). JJ can effectively guard 3 positions (PG, SG and SF) if he has to.
northcyde,
I think you will see more and more All-Stars getting together, which is why NJ better make some big FA moves this offseason (Jamal as their starting SG?), or they will lose D-Will next offseason. However, these starts will have to be willing to take paycuts with the new CBA.
As for the Hawks, Chills used to be our slasher. And although his jumper is ugly, he was money when he was open.
northcyde
May 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
Grandad . . you need shooters to make the motion work. It doesn’t matter if its in the pros or college. If you don’t have guys who can knock down open shots, that offense will NOT work.
Legit basketball teams are not going to let you back cut them to death, or get easy shots 15 feet and in. They’re going to choke off the inside and make you beat them from the outside. And if a team running the motion offense can’t beat you from the outside, you’re dead in the water.
It helps if you have a penetrating PG who can create off the dribble to get himself or other people open shots. It helps if you have a slasher or a post player who is good around the rim. But you need at least 2, possibly 3 guys, who can consistently knock down open shots to make the motion work.
northcyde
May 23rd, 2011
3:50 pm
@ O’Brien . . And Chill would offensive rebound as well. It looks like we gambled on the wrong SF, seeing how Marvin has regressed over the past 2 years. Chill has regressed too, but he was a better fit here, especially when we got out and ran the floor.
Marvin’s regression has been a big detriment to this team. Sund’s and the ASG’s incompetence is greater though.
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
You know what’s a scary thought is that Woody may have gotten the best of most of the guys here, minus Teague and potential one hit wonder Collins. The rest simply are not better than they were 2-3 years ago.
Marvin is another #2 so-so that was supposed to be oh-so much more.
Chills did regress once he left.
Al is not improving…I don’t care what all-accolade teams he belongs to.
Josh is a mixed bag.
Joe is a mixed bag.
Jamal lost his swagger many times this season. He was much more clutch in his 1st year here.
Since we now have more chaos with the Hawks’ exclusitivity deal dying, I don’t have a lot of hope for a bright future now we know the ASG is trying to ‘dump’ its holdings. They deserve to take a monetary bath after what they’ve put together for both teams.
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
4:15 pm
Chills was also a decent ball handler (Woody had him bring the ball up sometimes), and Chills would not fumble and stumble like Marvin. Rick gambled on Marvin and lost (he also gambled on Bibby and lost).
But I dont know what has happened to Chills’ game. Its one thing to miss shots, but prior to this season, he was a 80% FT shooter. But this year, he shot 49% from the stripes. Something is going on with him. When he was here, he averaged 30 mpg, but with Phoenix, he only averaged 17 mpg.
He has 4 years left on his deal, and Marvin has 3 years left on his deal. But if Phoenix would throw in Robin Lopez, or a first round draft pick, I would consider trading Marvin for him.
Speaking of Chills, I wonder if Rick has any plans to use the ~$3 mil TPE we acquired in the trade with Phoenix.
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
4:16 pm
Ob, Josh can guard 2-5 and be effective. Joe falls asleep too much on the defensive end and fails to rotate.
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
4:23 pm
Grandad the problem with the motion is the shooters it take to run it are often not the defenders that you need to be good in the playoffs.
Fundamentals
May 23rd, 2011
4:30 pm
Bulls are playing scared, like they are inexperienced, like they looked against us in Game 1. If they can regain that defensive intensity, there will be no series. Heat in no more than 6.
As for us, Collins did what he always did, don’t make it an ATL coaching bright spot. Dude has always been capable.
I agree, members of our team aren’t vastly improving. We had hopes for Josh at the onset of the season, but he took his confident, short range jumper and slowly crept out to the 3 pt line. He reverted back.
Al digressed this year, he lost any attempts at an inside game on both ends. He, Josh and Marvin refuse to rebound efficiently. Rebounding is a measure of effort and heart. All 3 would rather shoot jumpers.
Marvin – digressed every year since his contract. Dude is in it for the $$.
Joe – had physical issues, but more importantly we all know he lacks leadership and drive. We need a real alpha dog to motivate him…we all know that’s not coming. He’s an excellent compliment to the talent that isn’t developing on this team.
Teague – proved he 100% bought into “our system” of “play when it counts”. He wasn’t professional enough to stay ready and thus only really tried and flourished at key times…yes the playoffs, but dude needs to realize “our system” isn’t a good one. Hopefully he’ll bring intensity and leadership as his role expands on this team.
Jamal – we knew what he was, is and will be. Don’t knock him, just realize his role and coach him effectively. Shoot when you’re hot…splinters when you’re not.
I could go on and on…point is it’s on our players to find ways to improve this team this summer. We need a coach who can work with the guys to define roles, delegate responsibility and keep people hungry. We need a desperate, hungry bench hoping to prove themselves, not vet-mins who follow the lead.
Use the summer as a time to prepare…it’ll show next year, just like it did this year. We could easily be playing the Heat…instead we’re at home.
Is Chris Bosh only a 1/2 for playing his role? Seems they’re in position to do just what they planned to do, roll to the finals using him when the opportunity arises and Wade/Lebron when it doesn’t.
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
4:35 pm
I wonder what you would have to give up for Varajao. Honestly the starting lineup isn’t the problem as it is having good pieces coming off of the bench. So trading Crawford salary for Battier and Dalembert makes too much sense. And finding a way to bring in Prince for Marvin does as well.
The reason I suggest trades for Al is I believe he is the best asset to getting a star
Lebron James
May 23rd, 2011
4:37 pm
Al is not improving. Josh can improve by losing weight and getting his speed back so he can be the sparkplug he used to be before the Hawks committed to him as a 4. Now they want a center so they need him at the 3 now.
Marvin Williams is the odd man out talent wise. Since Horford’s offense becomes moot if you put a quick long defender on him the question is can Horford play center on a contender.
Horford theoretically could play center defensively on a winning team if you had:
Smith-{Dirk/Bosh/Stoudemire}-Horford.
Lebron-Smith-Horford
maybe even Carmelo-Smith-Horford
but the fundamental ability to defend and rebound is not found on this undersized SF-PF-C combo.
Williams needs to be moved in any trade
Booo!
May 23rd, 2011
4:39 pm
SteveW,
Gladyr play better D than Jamal IMHO. He at least tries to slow the opposition down with at least a foul instead of just watching them waltz into the paint. Sy has a lot of potential, mainly due to his age and measurements but still. He, fits the mold of a bruce bowen type. Lockdown peremeter defender, but instead of being a shooter he slashes to the basket and draws fouls. I beleive he will get better with playing time, and I hope he is workinng on his jumper in his spare time.
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
4:41 pm
Fundamentals rebounding failures are not because of Al or Josh. They both ranked in the top 15.. You can’t ask for more. The rebounding problem is the backcourt doesn’t. Box out and no one on the bench sells out for rebounds. The only time Zaza rebounds iswhen he plays 23 minutes. Or more
Trojan
May 23rd, 2011
4:41 pm
Seems everyone regressed on the Hawks this year. What do they all have in common? Coaching?
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
4:43 pm
The ultimate trade for the Hawks is Joe for Gasol.
Booo!
May 23rd, 2011
4:47 pm
I bleleive we now have more than a few playmakers:
Joe, Jamal(if he comes back), Teague, Kirk (to some extent), and Smoove.
I would love to swap marvin for an explosive derrick williams lol, but i’m satisfied with just shipping him outta here (hopefully on draft day). Does anyone think DET wouls swap prince for him on D-Day?
We mainly need VERY GOOD role players now though (shooters and defenders)….and another post presence (I’m gonna go try marvin etc. for nene in the trade machine)
Booo!
May 23rd, 2011
5:05 pm
Maybe we should take a look at wilson chandler?
Rod from College Park
May 23rd, 2011
5:09 pm
Two thing from the Chicago, Miami series stand out to me. Miami has been making Derek Rose go left, and he has a much harder time scoring when he is forced to go left. I stated that when we were playing them. They are defending him well with Bibby, because once he penetrates guys like Joel Anthony come over and take the correct angles to affect his shots, or they put him on his back, which is something that Al Horford failed to do one time in our series. Contain Derek Rose, you contain the Bulls. The Heat, and the Mavs will be in the finals, with the Mavs taking home the trophy. They will have to much depth for the Heat to compete.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
5:25 pm
Only if Marvin “wasn’t such a bad pick”, we could send him to the Cavs for their TPE like I suggested the other day…
“the Cavaliers offered the fourth pick to the Memphis Grizzlies for high-scoring small forward Rudy Gay, using the trade exception they received from the Miami Heat in the LeBron James sign-and-trade deal to absorb Gay’s salary, “
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
5:39 pm
“He has 4 years left on his deal, and Marvin has 3 years left on his deal. But if Phoenix would throw in Robin Lopez, or a first round draft pick, I would consider trading Marvin for him.”
Co-sign. And yes, at their current trade values, Phoenix would have to throw in someone else to make it work.
I wonder if they would give up their #13 pick to dump Childress’ salary for Marvin. Mickael Pietrus wouldn’t be a bad pickup either.
bigdave
May 23rd, 2011
5:49 pm
“All I know is that the opponents we face aren’t trying to stop Horford or Smith . . they’re trying to stop Johnson at all costs. And the reason for that is because Horford and Smith are highly dependent on others to score the basketball. JJ, on the other hand, will light most people up if single covered.”
exactly.. and while everyone tries to sh!t on Bosh.. he showed you last night exactly what Al Horford wasnt capable of doing..
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
5:50 pm
Ok, so people here think that Sund has the ability to bring in any free agents? Who has he talked into coming to Atlanta?
Josh Powell (minimum)
Randolph Morris (who ended up calling him and never gave the effort)
Flip Murray (minimum – IMO as good as Jamal Crawford was for us)
Etan Thomas (minimum – the whole blog here was anxious with anticipation who would be our 3rd-4th string center)
Joe Smith (minimum – another Rick Sund coup)
Jason Collins (minimum, who got paid 2 years for 1 serviceable year)
Did I forget any big name FA yet? Anybody?
Point is, I see all the suggestions, and what is the truth is that Sund depends on the draft more than any other facet. We know where we are for next month, so don’t expect a lot of hoopla.
Anyone going to next month’s draft party? You think the beloved ASG will hold one? I can’t wait to hear the way Rathburn explains how we got a 2nd round guy who can step right in and give us meaningful minutes. And he will probably be versatile too! We don’t have a combo PG-C yet.
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
5:52 pm
Would you agree that Sund’s best moves are deals with teams who think their trash is our treasure? So far…
Marvin
May 23rd, 2011
6:14 pm
I heard on hoopsworld.com that the hawks are willing to trade josh smith to L.A. for chris Kaman.
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
6:25 pm
KevinM,
There was also Mo Evans. But to get him to come here, Rick had to give him a 3rd year player option.
I think Rick is better at trades. At draft picks, lets not forget this is the same guy who drafted Johan Petro, Robert Swift, and Saer Sene, all in the first round.
Najeh,
I dont think Phoenix would give up Pietrus. He only has 1 year (player option) left, and if if they throw him into the deal, Hawks would have to match salaries. I would do Marvin for Chills and #13 pick though.
Ramon,
JJ does fall asleep at times on defense, but Josh is not a good “one on one” defender, especially if he is going up against a SG or SF (imo).
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
6:26 pm
Yeah, here’s the hoopsworld article. They pretty much just read Schultz’s article and then speculated on top of that. I wouldn’t be surprised if they even got that idea from the blog comments on his article. Typical media nonsense.
Neki Ecko
May 23rd, 2011
6:49 pm
It seems like the ASG wants to contiune the nightmares of the Hawks fans, with them pull out of that deal(I swear that whole thing was rigged but that just me), I think that they wont do any deals since we are good anyway, I hate them with every fiber of my being.
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
6:50 pm
OB, Rick is average at best…..if you look at each year’s roster, the roster did not improve top to bottom to consider this team a contender. I disagree totally after watching the last 4 playoff years. The influx of talent has been marginal at best……
Its painful to watch up ‘creep’ up the hierarchy and other teams are just jackhammering the door in.
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
6:53 pm
Rick riding the coattails of one Billy Knight and not looking like he wants to make a ‘major’ move.
Yes, his hands are tied, yes, he had to accept Drew even though he wanted another assistant. Excuses are excuses for those who don’t get the job done.
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
6:53 pm
Wow, that was quick, Rich Cho out as GM in Portland….
Would they be interested in a stable 31 year company man?
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
7:25 pm
Rumor: Cavaliers try to offer No. 4 pick for Rudy Gay
Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter_media.html#ixzz1NDl5QrXg
What can we get that pick for?
ag
May 23rd, 2011
7:28 pm
OBrien, never really watched him play (Chills), but I would make the trade straight up. Honestly, I would trade Marvin for ANY forward in the league, even Boris Diaw,- whom I fell is the worst in the league.
ag
May 23rd, 2011
7:31 pm
I would love Lopez, but that will not be the deal breaker
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
7:42 pm
The #4 pick in this draft is pretty worthless in my opinion. Derrick Williams will be a star and Kyrie Irving will be a very good player, but everyone past them is as likely to be a journeyman/role player as they are to be a star of any kind. Whoever is drafted at #3 or #4 is going to get paid a lot more money for basically the same amount of expected production as whoever is getting picked around #20.
ag
May 23rd, 2011
7:50 pm
Like I posted before, we need role players. We can build from our “core”. Adding Josh Powell to the core will not make it better. Adding Wilson Chandler or another shooter – maybe in the draft will make us better. I would love Derrick Williams in Atlanta, if we trade Joe to Cleveland – getting rid of that contract will allow us to build a solid bench. Horford may develop into a 20 -10 guy.
Grandad
May 23rd, 2011
8:06 pm
northcyde
Good to know.
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
8:08 pm
Najeh,
We really liked the Perkins trade at the deadline. And I was surprised when OKC gave him a new contract instead of waiting to see what the new CBA looked like.
But I have been very disappointed in his play. Kendrick Perkins is -32 for the Dallas/OKC Series. And when he is on the bench, OKC is +23. Magic Johnson said he would consider starting Nick Collison for him.
What do you think about the trade now?
Grandad
May 23rd, 2011
8:11 pm
Ramon
Thanks
O'Brien
May 23rd, 2011
8:43 pm
The Josh for Kaman swap is not a good move (imo).
Kaman is an injury waiting to happen. He missed 52 games this year, 51 in ’08-’09, and 26 games in ’07-’08. And I think Josh is more talented than Kaman, so Clippers would have to sweeten the deal for me to make that trade.
I would do Josh for Kaman and Clippers 2013 first round pick (if I’m not mistaken, they can’t trade successive first round picks).
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
8:55 pm
I think the Mavs are a bad matchup for Perkins, because Chandler is so much more athletic than Perkins is, and because their only low post scorer (Dirk) is a threat out to the 3 point line which means Perkins can’t guard him one on one. I still think the trade is good for them overall. If they make it to the Finals (doesn’t look likely now but who knows) I think having Perkins around makes them a much greater threat to beat the Heat than having Krstic starting at center would.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
8:56 pm
As for Smoove-for-Kaman, even if Kaman could stay healthy (which he can’t) he’s a turnover machine, doesn’t get to the free throw line nearly often enough to be a go-to scoring option, and doesn’t make the defensive impact that his 7 foot frame would suggest. I think his stats are inflated by playing on a bad team to an extent.
I wouldn’t trade Smoove for DeAndre Jordan either, but I’d prefer Jordan on the Hawks to Kaman.
doc
May 23rd, 2011
9:17 pm
durant has just gone off, geez.
o’b your comments echo what i said to myself when thinking about the bulls, heat series. i would love for the heat to bomb, however i was very afraid of seeing what i am seeing now. haslem is very underrated and a glue player.
JoJo the Godfather
May 23rd, 2011
9:18 pm
I’d give Marvin & Pachulia for Kaman, and I really think it would be a good move for the Clippers. They don’t have a lot of cap space, and they have Gomes & Aminu sharing the SF spot and neither is producing, plus they have no depth behind D. Jordan because Kaman is always hurt.
If it doesn’t work out for the Hawks, we’ve got a $12M expiring contract to shop with at the deadline.
JoJo the Godfather
May 23rd, 2011
9:20 pm
Marcus Camby is another big man on an expiring deal that I would put a package together around Marvin for. If he gets ticked off and retires after the trade, even better.
doc
May 23rd, 2011
9:22 pm
i want a two for one if we trade josh including a center.
i would accept a two for three if marvin and al were shipped.
only teams with legit healthy young bigs with comfortable contracts need apply, otherwise, continue as we are.
doc
May 23rd, 2011
9:24 pm
o’b he is still feeling it out on the trade of perkins
.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
9:24 pm
Kendrick Perkins looks every bit of 300 lbs….
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
9:48 pm
I would trade Marvin to Dallas for Haywood straight up. If Dallas continue to play well, maybe they won’t resign Caron Butler this summer. He would be a nice pickup at SF spot…
doc
May 23rd, 2011
9:50 pm
o’b my comment got swallowed, i think perkins is very affordable and he is a guy who adds strength to the bench, any bench. i would take him on my bench. i also say no to heyward who is not far from etan ville. one more question. would you trade perkins for marvin even up? i would in a second.
KevinM
May 23rd, 2011
10:11 pm
OB, you aren’t getting the Clipper 2013 pick. The Clips have already moved their 2012 pick and that has been moved to the Celtics in the Perkins deal.
I disagree on the value of the 4th pick. A very good player is coming off that slot. A big man is available and give me anything but a PF. Even if you get a Derrick Williams, are you slotting him inside or are you gonna let him sit on the 3 pt. Line? I think there’s just duplication here with Williams.
I go find a cheaper version of an Al Horford who is actually willing to play center and play close to the basket.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
10:19 pm
Doc,
I don’t think OKC would pay a guy (Marvin) 8mil to play behind Durant. Especially not for their only center Perkins.
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
10:27 pm
Anybody for a trade to GSW – David Lee, Beidrins, Stephen Curry for Josh Smith, Marvin, and Hinrich
We then have a backcourt rotation of Curry, JJ, and Teague
A Frontcourt rotation of Al, Lee, ZaZa and Beidrins.
And a SF rotation of Wilkens and somebody else we sign.
GSW seems determined to trade Curry, and I don’t know why.
And they really want out of the Beidrins and Lee long term contracts.
Probably a terrible move, just wondered what ya’ll thought.
It’s the type trade Sund may pull off that would not shock me.
We would then have PG and Bigs solidified for a little while.
Lee plays some C – he’s just not big enough to me however .
doc
May 23rd, 2011
10:29 pm
just saying if you got 8 mil to spend would it be marvin or another tough big with championship experience. i am not suggesting a trade melvin, just suggesting a perspective of what worth might represent in the big picture.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
10:32 pm
doc,
Agreed. The Hawks are investing way too much money into Marvin for the production he brings to the floor. Moving Marvin should be the Hawks first line of business personnel wise this summer.
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
10:34 pm
Now I am all for signing Alexis Ajinca – 7-2 248 – I think he could be developed
SteveW
May 23rd, 2011
10:39 pm
I wouldn’t do that Josh for Kaman trade either.
And Beidrins looks awful to me as well.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
10:39 pm
doc,
what’s wrong with Haywood? Even Van Gundy referred to him as a guy who would be a starting center if he wasn’t playing behind Chandler (which I agree with).
hawksfancents95
May 23rd, 2011
10:42 pm
draft prospects analysis
1.kawhi leonard- 7′3 wingspan standing 6′7, i think leonard is going to have the biggest impact for whoever takes him of all the rookies. he is not going to win ROY but he will be a solid defender and stable offensively.
2.derrick williams- will be a starting PF.7′1 wingspan and 9′0 standing reach is impressive. I think cleveland should draft dwill 1st and try to take a PG with #4
3. Chandler Parsons- I think he is the most underrated prospect and will be a great pickup. I would use a lottery pick on him.(9-14)
4. since im advocating hard for a monta ellis for al horford trade. why not fantasize that if GS makes that trade that with their 11th pick they take jimmer freddette. GS starting lineup 11-12 s.curry jimmer dorrell d.lee Al. (i know dicky V would be a GS season ticket holder to watch stephon curry and jimmer freddete in the same backcourt)(id have to buy NBA league pass to watch them too)
5.with the HAWKS pick at 48 we will have to wait to draft day to see where the chips fall but most of us are hoping for a Center. If Jeremy Tyler is left around I think he would be worth the pick to see if we can mold him into a deandre jordan type athletic C. at 6′10.5 and 260, a 7′5 wingspan and also standing reach of 9′2.5, i hear he has maturity issues but i think as crazy as it sounds some of the hawks can give him leadership. also keith benson would be a good pickup. I think if either are still on the board at 48 we will have a successful draft.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
10:50 pm
Durant or Lebron?
ag
May 23rd, 2011
11:08 pm
durant
Najeh Davenpoop
May 23rd, 2011
11:19 pm
The only Warriors players I like at the salary they are getting or will get once their rookie contracts expire are Ekpe Udoh and Dorell Wright, to be completely honest.
Melvin
May 23rd, 2011
11:27 pm
Doc,
Could you explain why this scouting report on the kid (Anthony Davis) below says b/c he had a 7-inch growth spurt in a year, it will cause him knee problems.
“Was a 6′3″ guard his junior year before a major 7-inch growth spurt. Growth spurt could cause some issues with his knees, could experience some significant pain and could also be a little injury prone for the next year or so.”
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
11:32 pm
Lebrn. He’s a better defender, play maker, rebounder, and more marketable.
Ramon
May 23rd, 2011
11:40 pm
Would you trade Al for Evans and Cousins?