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Atlanta Hawks: Status quo as CBA sorted out

7:42 pm May 19, 2011, by Michael Cunningham

Sorry for the lack of posts the last couple days, blog people. I’ve been laid up sick after I made a major miscalculation and didn’t initiate my proven NyQuil Strategy at the first sign of trouble.

The Hawks had some meetings before Rick Sund headed off for Chicago but they weren’t detailed discussions about the team’s direction. The Hawks essentially are on the sidelines waiting to see what happens with the CBA. It’s hard for them to make plans that could become moot under the new rules.

ASG’s talks with a potential buyer for the team don’t seem to be affecting the basketball operations side of the organization. The key line in the story by the AJC’s Tim Tucker’s: “[A] deal is not close and that it’s far from assured one will get done.”

So it’s business as usual for the Hawks–or at least it would be if not for the uncertainty about the CBA. I wish I had more for you but everything is pretty much on hold right now.

In the meantime here are links to stories from the last couple days so you can tell me why I’m wrong:

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

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378 comments Add your comment

Dept. of Unintended Irony

May 20th, 2011
4:17 pm

doc,

no thunder stolen at all. glad to have you step up.

due to your insight, and your ability to incite, you get a “citation” for your excellence in lingual playfulness.

all in lower case in your honor

Grandad

May 20th, 2011
4:25 pm

J from the A

I would trade Marvin for a bag of doughnuts.

My point;
he would not be in my starting line-up.

Not trying to be contradictory.

Marvin’s gotta go.

” shoot up here amongst us,
’cause one of us has got to have some relief “

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
4:25 pm

Has anyone given thought to starting Kirk next season and letting Teague come off (with intent of playing starter minutes)? It would help fill some of the offensive gap if we let JC walk. It would appear to save us from having to spend on trading for another guard, so that we can pour our attention into filling up a 4/5 spot and extra body(s) on the roster.

For all intensive purposes- Sund missed the gigantic opportunity to trade JC at the deadline, I would hope that when he decides to let Kirk go, the exchange would be worthwhile.(8 million reasons)

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
4:27 pm

^come off the bench

J from the A

May 20th, 2011
4:35 pm

@James on Pharr Rd: I have those thoughts, but keep them to myself out of fear of getting crucified!

Grandad

May 20th, 2011
4:50 pm

Nikola Vucevic: – from Southern Cal -
6′ 10.25” (socks) 6′ 11.75” (shoes) 259 (wgt) 7′ 4.5 (w-span)
9′ 4.5” (standing reach) 6.1 (body fat)
9.3 (hand length) 10.3 (hand width)

Will be available at 48 according to most mock drafts.
I don’t see it, but if he is, surely we don’t pass on him.

He will be a steal at 48.

look for him to move up / possibly into the late 1st round ?

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
4:51 pm

J

I know what you are saying exactly…
Ginobli, Odom, Terry, and a few others have done it to perfection. And lets be honest- JT still needs to develop some parts of his game-mid range shot, and 3 point game…

Najeh Davenpoop

May 20th, 2011
4:54 pm

“If we trade Mr. Johnson for filler, who on this team will draw a double or triple team to open the lanes?”

a) No point in drawing a double team to open up the lanes if 1) you can’t pass the ball quickly enough out of the double team and 2) nobody is cutting down the lane

b) No need to have someone drawing those double teams when you have a point guard who can get into the paint against anyone and draw the defense in to set up his teammates

Joe is a very skilled offensive player, but the value of the double teams he draws is only as high as it is because the scheme is built around him to too large of an extent in the first place. If there is a way to de-emphasize him in the offense without his ego getting in the way, that would be a better course of action than to trade him. But if he wouldn’t be OK with sliding into a complementary role in a point guard-dominated offensive scheme — and after six years of being “the man”, it would be hard to blame him — the Hawks’ best recourse would probably be to trade him especially if they can get someone as skilled as Derrick Williams to replace him.

doc

May 20th, 2011
4:55 pm

very honored

Najeh Davenpoop

May 20th, 2011
4:56 pm

“Kenneth Faried is one of the most impressive young men
that I’ve seen in a long time.”

He would be an outstanding fit on the Hawks. This is a weak draft but that guy is going to be a great fit on a playoff team. Every team needs a hard nosed dirty work player like Faried — the Hawks more so than others.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 20th, 2011
5:00 pm

“DONT GIVE AWAY FUTURE HALL-OF-FAMER JOE JOHNSON FOR THAT JERK JAMISON.”

Now that I have stopped laughing at “future Hall-of-Famer Joe Johnson”, I think it’s pretty clear that JoJo’s trade proposal had Jamison coming back in the deal because of his expiring contract, not his on-court value.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 20th, 2011
5:06 pm

“Has anyone given thought to starting Kirk next season and letting Teague come off (with intent of playing starter minutes)? It would help fill some of the offensive gap if we let JC walk. It would appear to save us from having to spend on trading for another guard, so that we can pour our attention into filling up a 4/5 spot and extra body(s) on the roster.”

Assuming Joe is still a Hawk next year and Jamal is not, why would it be any different if Teague started and Kirk came off the bench? The Hawks could budget the minutes similarly between Teague/Joe/Kirk as they did at the start of this year between Bibby/Joe/Jamal. From an offensive standpoint I would think Kirk’s outside shooting would be a good change of pace coming off the bench, and Teague has shown he is more effective as a starter.

Slimjr

May 20th, 2011
5:14 pm

Derrick Williams has ALLSTAR skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is THE REAL DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fearless
Lightning quick first step
Has a post up game
Has a legit Jumpshot with 3 pt range
Has above average handles
Can take defenders off the dribble to the rim for a Photo-op
Can pull up off the dribble and shoot the midrange jumpshot
He is a scorer……………..He is Nasty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He’s listed at 6′8″, 235lb….His vertical has to be at least 36″!! He will posterize people like Nique used to.
Dare I say “Human Highlight film #2″ and some?

Grandad

May 20th, 2011
5:17 pm

Najeh from 4:56 pm

Faried would instantly become a fan favorite !

” The anti – Joe Johnson “

KevinM

May 20th, 2011
5:24 pm

Im digging deep in the draft because I have to based on where Sund has put us…..how about Scotty Hopson, 6′7″ SG who could give us instant offense off the bench. I won’t boast about his defense though. If you want defense/hustle, go get DeAndre Liggins, who can rattle down a jumper every once in a while and he is long and lean.

Someone to give us a punch off the bench if we move Joe or we drop Jamal.

We have got to find that next scorer off the bench because the vet shooters are going to be too costly.

Sund is going to have to manuever to somehow get that 1st round pick back. He sure dumped our near future to punch out Bibby.

Here’s to Kirk getting over the rash of injuries he has fallen into lately.

KevinM

May 20th, 2011
5:29 pm

“Grandad

May 20th, 2011
5:17 pm
Najeh from 4:56 pm

Faried would instantly become a fan favorite !

” The anti – Joe Johnson “

Im wondering what minutes he is going to get from this roster? Are you taking Al or Josh off the floor? If not, the minutes are scarce as proven by LD.

We look at these young guns and we are just asking for it, because LD is going to mess with this kids’ head just like JT. Careful what we ask for here.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 20th, 2011
5:40 pm

“Im wondering what minutes he is going to get from this roster? Are you taking Al or Josh off the floor? If not, the minutes are scarce as proven by LD.”

Considering that Zaza and Collins are the only capable backup big men on this team, and each one is limited in what they can do, Faried would be able to fill a role on the Hawks that currently isn’t filled consistently.

Of course he will be a late first round pick and the Hawks are not going to pick in the first round this year, so this is all speculation. But I would be willing to bet he has a DeJuan Blair-like impact on a playoff team next year.

ag

May 20th, 2011
5:42 pm

Oddly, I agree. I do hope they will trade Marvin for a draft pick and the coaches will play the rookie. They now should understand winning today and developing players certainly complement one another. Look at the guys over the last three seasons that were drafted, not developed by the Hawks but productive on other teams: (Jordan Crawford, Solomon Jones, Acie Law). Coaches should understand that every player drafted is not drafted to be a star, but have a role (remember Joe asking for guys who want to do the work that does not reflect in the box scores).
Drafting a rookie will give us room for us to acquire a veteran who will come off the bench and provide us with good defense and shooting. We need a “Chuck Person” type shooter to come off the bench. Maybe Wilson Chandler – if they can get him or J.R. Smith, Ray Allen, Mike Dunleavy, Matt Barnes, Michael Redd, Daequan Cook, Mickeal Pietrus or Shane Battier.
Also, Josh always works very hard in the off season to improve his game as well as Horford, so I expect those two to play better. The only way JJ will be better will depend on the coaching staff and how he is used. It will also depend on the players we are bringing in.
I do like Jamal, but we cannot afford to resign him. Wish him the best of luck and don’t drop 40 on us when you see us. Don’t have to worry about Marvin doing that. Marvin should be traded up to Portland.

ag

May 20th, 2011
5:49 pm

I agree with SlimJr and the 5 reasons why we will improve (even though I don’t think he agrees??)

Buddy Grizzard

May 20th, 2011
6:12 pm

“Buddy Grizzard is a idiot … same stuff every year blame everyone else while [clinging] to the belief that the “core” will take us anywhere besides the second rd.” – Sleepy

Sleepy, your reasoning would work if I was one of the people who advocated keeping the core together. In actuality, I spent most of the past offseason arguing that the Hawks should let Joe Johnson walk, or sign-and-trade him for minimal compensation.

However, when I say Sund has put the Hawks in the best possible position to win “next year,” this is true. If Joe had walked as a free agent last offseason, only a fraction of his cap hold would have been available to sign other players, none of whom would have been of Joe’s talent level. So by retaining Joe, the ASG has gone all in to try to win now.

Furthermore, I’m not just arguing that the core could potentially take us past the second round in the future, I’m arguing that the core COULD HAVE taken us to the Conference Finals THIS YEAR, if properly coached.

The problem I have with Big Ray’s and MC’s analysis of Drew’s coaching is that it sets the bar excessively low. If the best that you can say about Drew is that his decisions are no more stupid than the decisions of his players, or that he makes good decisions slightly more often than stupid ones, then I can’t understand why you wouldn’t advocate Drew’s replacement.

Slimjr

May 20th, 2011
6:19 pm

Hollins defeats the Bulls with the Hawks squad in 6!

LD was a jacked up hire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buddy Grizzard

May 20th, 2011
6:27 pm

“These are all things I’ve criticized Drew for repeatedly throughout the season.” – MC

Here’s my view on that. After Boston went to the NBA finals last year and the Hawks came within two wins of the Conference Finals this year, I really believe that the regular season doesn’t matter. So I’m perfectly aware that you’ve criticized Drew’s rotations throughout the year… I’ve read every word you’ve published since you were hired by the AJC.

I just have a problem with the low standards in analyzing Drew’s coaching when it really counts, when it makes the difference between these Hawks winning two more games and advancing farther than any Atlanta Hawks team ever has before. When Drew’s poor coaching cost the Hawks a chance at going to the ECF, I’m simply not reassured by the idea that “Drew’s tactical decisions… worked more times than not.” They didn’t work often enough to suit me.

drmaryb (*_-)

May 20th, 2011
6:29 pm

Double Shot!

“MC,

Let’s keep it real. Even if there was no upcoming CBA issues, Rick Sund would sit around all offseason, only to end up signing 2 or 3 vet min guys, watch Jamal sign with somebody else because he is out of our price range, and then say the Hawks are one of only “X” teams to make it to the second round three seasons in a row, so only minor tweaks are needed.” – O’Brien -
____________________

Just – Damn!

Katie

May 20th, 2011
6:35 pm

“Has anyone given thought to starting Kirk next season and letting Teague come off (with intent of playing starter minutes)? It would help fill some of the offensive gap if we let JC walk. It would appear to save us from having to spend on trading for another guard, so that we can pour our attention into filling up a 4/5 spot and extra body(s) on the roster.”

Honestly I think that is the way LD is probably going to do it, but people will still be surprised when Teague isn’t in the starting line up at the beginning of next season. I can’t say I disagree with that decision. Although I too have lobbied for Teague to get more minutes throughout the season(s), it was just a yearning to see what his potential could be. The second round of the playoffs certainly proved that, but we need to be realistic. Can Teague pull off consistent playing like that? Starter minutes off the bench would help get more of a feel of whether or not he can live up to these huge expectations [some] people have for him.

Plus it would take a lot of pressure off the kid. Going from playing minimal minutes in your first 2 seasons in league to being a full time starting point guard for a team that needs some obvious rebuilding? The transition from back up PG to full time starter midway through the season sounds a lot easier… and that’s only if he produces with consistent minutes.

Keep in mind all of the depends on whether or not LD will even play Teague more next season. After round 2 I don’t see how he couldn’t but LD never stops surprising me…

Sautee

May 20th, 2011
6:49 pm

Buddy Grizzard,

I think you are a really good poster when you keep it real. Seriously.

Keep it up.

Ken Strickland

May 20th, 2011
6:56 pm

I don’t know why so many of you are so fixated on getting rid of Marvin. You act like getting rid of him is going to somehow make this team so much better. He’s a 6′9″ 240lb player that can play SF, PF and even SG in a pinch. He’s a good outside shooter, gets to the FT line, and can defend all 3 positions very well.

He doesn’t need to be disposed of, he just needs to come off the bench and be made a part of the regular OFF, and it’s LDrews responsibility to make that happen. A bench of MWilliams, Pape Sy, DWilkins, ZPachulia and JCollins, is solid. We just need to add another shooter and a more athletic big that can defend and block or alter shots occasionally. That’s where players like ARolle or HArmstrong might come in.

Our bench is certainly as good, if not better, than the one fielded by the Heat, who made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Even though he has his limitations, Zaza is one of the NBA’s better backup centers. DWilkins can be very effective, especially defensively, if given consistent mins. I think Pape Sy is close to being a bigger, taller version of JTeague. All Marvin needs is to have his roll defined, like coming off the bench as a primary scorer, rebounder and defender.

It certainly worked out well for Jamal Crawford when Woodson did it with him.

Katie

May 20th, 2011
7:08 pm

@Ken,

I totally agree with you, I think Marvin still has great potential to be a great player. Just not with the Hawks. We’re not what he needs and he’s not what we need, simple as that. If I were Marvin I would want to be traded anyways, go to a team with a coach who knows what to do with me.

Just like Crawford, Marvin may have to bounce around the league for a bit before he gets that chance. (if he ever does)

drmaryb (*_-)

May 20th, 2011
7:12 pm

“9.3 (hand length)”
- grand-daddy -
___________

Hmmmm … can you slip him my #? LOL.
Seriously Grand-Daddy, you know I only have blog eyes for you.

Anyway, very nice find there. You should be on Sund’s scout team, you’re like “Dog -The Bounty Hunter”, if it’s alive and hiding? You will find it and drag it in. -wink-

drmaryb (*_-)

May 20th, 2011
7:23 pm

A Place for Marvin!

Ken Strickland

That is a very well made argument for keeping Marvin. I really do like his personality and class. If he really get’s in the gym and work on his “J” like kD does and MJ did, by putting up 333 shots – three times per day and start nailing that thing at 50%? He would be worth every penny.

Hell, if he could even emulate Keith Bogans at this point, I would be fine with him staying. I just think we all want to see some major talent infusion around here. Another 2nd round exit will not sit well with anyone on this blog.

Sund really needs to go buy a lap-top and hire a tutor to help him push the buttons and find some body to come in here and play. Fast.

ag

May 20th, 2011
7:23 pm

Katie, you really make no sense. If Teague does not start next year….I will not know what to do. I have said it all year, even before the trade. How long do you want to keep him on the bench? He should play 40-45 minutes per game.

Ken, when I look at some of your older post, you were an advocate for hiring LD. You really must be kidding about Marvin. Everyone has made every excuse in the book to keep this kid. Look at his track record in college. HE DID NOT START!!! He is living on his high school rep when he was a monster!

I am intrigued about trading Joe to Mn. They have the cap space and could use a SG. They do not need a SF since they have Beasly. Maybe the Hawks will do like the Nuggets did once Melo was gone? If they did that, they still will have to acquire a shooter.

Again, name two things Marvin is really good at. I will start the list, ANYONE can finish it.

1. Marvin is really good at falling over himself.

2. ???

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
7:31 pm

Najeh and Katie

If Jamal walks this off-season and we don’t make any roster changes, we are going to need to fill that offensive hole. Kirk is a good 3 point shooter, but his game is seemingly better suited as a starter with solid D and knocking down the occasional 3. Teague can still get his 35-40 minutes coming off the bench and provide a great lift off the bench with his shot making ability. If Kirk comes off the bench with Marvin and Zaza (assuming no trades are made) who is going to create opportunities for others?

Hypothetically, if we had Kirk active in the 2nd round against CHI-our second unit with Teague would have created all sorts of problems on D for Chi, instead we had Jamal who is good with creating jumpers and not penetration. (High percentage action at the hoop)

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
7:43 pm

Najeh

Teague looked good as a starter, future star I might add, but he never got an opportunity to play decent minutes off the bench either. This move helps the team in different ways.

drmaryb (*_-)

May 20th, 2011
7:49 pm

Tweak It!

“After Boston went to the NBA finals last year and the Hawks came within two wins of the Conference Finals this year, I really believe that the regular season doesn’t matter.”
- My Buddy -
__________________

Please allow me to tweak this comment. Let’s not minimize to regular season standings from #1 – #4, that affords you home court advantage in round 1. That extra game at home, eating from your fridge and sleeping in your bed is huge!

Boston only conceded the #3 spot to the hawks for that #4 spot, by resting key players down the stretch. And, we all know what the magic did to us in round 2.
_______________

Also Buddy, calm down baby … You’re gonna’ have a stroke worrying about Mr. Drew. Sure, he could have done some things differently, I think he had the right schemes, but at some point, these players just have to step up! The coach doesn’t have a joy-stick to make them hit their shots and play with energy. These guys are supposedly professionals and just a modicum of pride should have showed up in those winnable losses.

These guys making 10M to 16M per year, just have to step up and play hard and with passion. Don’t just blame the coach, I seriously doubt Mr.$ Drew asked these guys not to make plays, rebound, box out and defend like their lives depended on it. That was a team loss, plain and simple.

ag

May 20th, 2011
7:49 pm

Why would you put Teague on bench? You guys sounding like LD. Would you put Rondo on the bench? He deserves to start because next year he will make everyone around him better. No more fumbled passes from Hilton and ZaZa resulting in more dunks for AL & Josh – (if they post up or roll to the basket) or open jumpers for Kirk or JJ.

Katie

May 20th, 2011
7:49 pm

Just because he’s coming off the bench doesn’t mean he won’t be playing… As good as he looks he still has a lot of work to do on his game, something coming off the bench can improve. It’ll only make him even better when he does start.

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
7:59 pm

Did I hear Jamison+B Diddy(Davis) for Joe Johnson + future pick?

James on Pharr Rd

May 20th, 2011
8:00 pm

Ag

To increase productivity off the bench.

JoJo the Godfather

May 20th, 2011
8:29 pm

Once we draft Isaiah Thomas in the 2nd round and give him the keys to the 2nd team offense, the bench will be fine.

Slimjr

May 20th, 2011
8:48 pm

Hey Buddy “you are the MAN”! Good Stuff Dude!

Slimjr

May 20th, 2011
8:50 pm

If Derrick Williams played his cousin one on one, Marvin would quit in 5 mins….

Slimjr

May 20th, 2011
8:52 pm

Marvin = 2 left feet…………………shoot……………..

drmaryb (*_-)

May 20th, 2011
9:07 pm

HoopsHype!

Alex Kennedy: The Hawks floated Josh Smith’s name out at the trade deadline and they didn’t like any of the offers that they received. Teams were low-balling them. If they were to shop him today, I think he would generate significant interest. Plenty of teams are looking to package picks and young players for a veteran piece and there would be quite a few teams calling the Hawks. HoopsWorld

Atlanta Hawks, Trade, Josh Smith  |  share  

Sam Smith: Yes, I expect him to be among several high profile players who are available after this season, and I’m not convinced no matter what the Grizzlies said they’ll keep Rudy Gay. I’d also watch for Monta Ellis, Tony Parker, Michael Beasley, Kevin Martin, Andrea Bargnani, Danny Granger, Rajon Rondo, Devin Harris, Chris Kamen, Stephen Jackson, Jameer Nelson and Richard Hamilton among those who could be moved in trades. NBA.com
Memphis Grizzlies, Trade, Rudy Gay  |  share  
_____________________

  Adrian Wojnarowski: Most honest Pre-Draft Combine answer ever — Western Conference team says to prospect: “We hear you like to smoke, drink and burn bridges.” Twitter


Adrian Wojnarowski: Prospect: “Yeah, I smoke and drink, but whoever told you I burned down a bridge is a (bleeping) liar.” Twitter
____________________

WOW! Be careful with these draft picks, this draftee is a tool. You really have to Voir Dire these players and test drive their minds before you make that pick. I got $5 for anyone who can tell me – who is this guy?
  

steve

May 20th, 2011
9:13 pm

Fire Sund bring in someone young clever and has a good feel bringing palyers who would have good chemstry other than al holford the hawks are a bunch of me players signing sund to a extension is stupid.

O'Brien

May 20th, 2011
10:03 pm

Ken Strickland,

He’s a good outside shooter.

In 05-06, Marvin shot 25% from 3 (13-53). In 06-07, he shot 24% from 3 (11-45). In 07-08, he shot 10% from 3 (1-10), In 08-09, he shot 36% from 3 (55-155), in 09-10, he shot 30% from 3 (40-132), and this past season, he shot 34% from 3 (37-110).

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. The numbers say Marvin is NOT a good outside shooter.
Not only is he a career 31% 3-pt shooter, in 6 seasons, he has made 126 three pointers. That’s an average of 26 three pointers per season.

Would you consider Josh a good outside shooter? He is a career 28% 3-pt shooter, and in 7 seasons, he has made 178 three pointers, an average of 25 three pointers per season. Very similar number to Marvin.

JANDREWS487

May 20th, 2011
10:10 pm

Why does everyone want to get rid of Larry Drew!? I think he’s a great coach!

O'Brien

May 20th, 2011
10:12 pm

Kyle Korver is a good outside shooter. 41% career from 3, 120 three pointers made this past season. Keith Bogans is a good outside shooter; 38% from 3, 90 three pointers made this season. Anthony Morrow is a good outside shooter. 45% from 3, and an average of 112 three pointers made per season.

Those are good shooters.

tyger

May 20th, 2011
10:14 pm

Marshon Brooks!!!

SteveW

May 20th, 2011
10:30 pm

All of these great draft ideas, but I would not be surprised if:

Hinrich starts and Teague is borderline in the rotation.

If after re-signing Wilkins and Colliins, our “Great Leap Forward” will be:

Signing Armstrong, Rolle, and Aminu for bigs

Drafting Isaiah Thomas from UW or that PG out of Illinois

And call it a summer.

That will not shock me if that happens.

SteveW

May 20th, 2011
10:33 pm

The Atlanta Hawks = The Kiss of Death for Young Guards

Salim
Acie
Royal
Jordan Crawford
Teague until a freak injury pushes him into the limelight

If I was a PG, I would be praying the Hawks did not draft me.

O'Brien

May 20th, 2011
10:42 pm

Steve W,

Rick might draft Isaiah Thomas from UW because he thinks he’s drafting THE Isaiah Thomas (former Bad Boy).

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