Atlanta Hawks: The Chicago Way?
The Hawks need to get better. The Bulls needed to do the same last summer and Al said the Hawks might learn something from the way they went about it.
“That’s the perfect example,” he said. “They got that kid Asik. They got Korver, a shooter. They addressed their needs and got better. That’s a blueprint that I think if I’m the team I would look at.”
So let’s look at what the Bulls did last summer and see if the Hawks can copy the same formula:
- Al’s theory falls apart from the start: The Bulls had just $34 million in committed salaries for 2010-11 after clearing space to get in on the 2010 free-agent bonanza. The Hawks have about $67 million in committed salaries mostly because of J.J. and Smoove’s contracts and Al’s extension.
- The Bulls cleared more cap space by trading Hinrich and a first-round pick to the Wizards for a second-round pick. The Wizards coveted Hinrich and were willing to take on his $17 million salary. The Hawks don’t have a first-round draft pick. They also aren’t under the cap and so can’t make such a trade without taking back salary (under the current rules).
- The Bulls hired a coach with a single-minded obsession with defense (and didn’t break the bank to do it). L.D. talked a lot about defense when he was hired, too, but his personnel decisions usually didn’t match the talk. (The Hawks did end up playing good D in the playoffs and L.D. deserves some credit for that, especially his decision to use the Twin lineup against Orlando. But D was neither a big part of the team’s culture nor was it usually at the forefront of the way L.D. distributed minutes among his backcourt.)
- The Bulls signed Boozer for five years and $80 million. The Hawks don’t have cap space so they can’t outright sign such a player even if they wanted to pay the tax. But let’s go ahead and say the contract for J.J. last summer was their Boozer move.
- The Bulls signed Korver for 5 years and $15 million (the final year is partially guaranteed). They could do that because they had cap space. The Hawks can’t because they don’t.
- After the Magic matched their offer sheet to Redick, the Bulls signed Ronnie Brewer for two years and $9.5 guaranteed. The Hawks can’t do a deal like that because . . . well, you know.
- The Bulls signed Asik for two years and $3.6 million. They had acquired him in a 2008 draft-night trade with Portland in which they sent away three second-round picks. Maybe Pape Sy or Gladyr can be the next Asik?
- The Bulls acquired Watson in a sign-and-trade with Golden State. The deal was for two years and $7 million guaranteed. They could do this because of their cap room.
- The Bulls signed Bogans, Kurt Thomas and Scalabrine to minimum-salaried contracts. The Hawks presumably make similar moves, depending on the details of the new CBA.
Clearly, because of salary commitments already on the books, the Chicago Way can’t be the Hawks’ Way.
What’s next?
I know there are lots of questions about what the Hawks can and should do. Honestly, they are difficult to answer without knowing what the new CBA rules will look like. The players quickly rejected the league’s latest offer, which reportedly proposed a hard salary cap and salary rollbacks.
What will be the amount of the salary cap? What about the luxury tax? Will there be an amnesty provision to allow teams to shed salary? Will there still be cap exceptions and, if not, what about those teams whose payrolls are above the new salary cap?
“As players we are just trying to do the right thing for current players and the players that are going to come behind us and for what the players before us worked so hard for,” Hinrich said. “We’ll see. Right now it probably looks like July 1 we are going to be locked out. For now, it’s up in the air.”
Under the current rules it’s hard to see how the Hawks could even fill out the roster with the minimum 13 players without paying the tax. Right now their options are limited to trades and using exceptions to acquire players whose salaries that don’t put them over the tax level. Assuming the tax threshold is about the same as it was the past three seasons, about $70 million, the Hawks would have roughly $3 million of wiggle room to sign six players.
Again, that’s based on the current rules and some assumptions. With the way things are going with the labor situation, who knows what the new system will look like when the league starts playing basketball again. But clearly the Hawks, like all teams, are counting on new rules more favorable to owners.
L.D. didn’t want to get into exactly what he thinks the Hawks need because he hadn’t talked to Rick Sund or the owners yet. (Sund, by the way, says he’s not talking until after the team’s scouting combine, which ends a week from Wednesday). But I noted the team’s lack of scoring at the rim and also their low free-throw rate and asked if that’s something that can only change with different personnel.
“Possibly,” L.D. said. “A lot of that is simply making the wrong decision out of ball movement on when to attack or settling for jump shots. You guys heard me say time and time again how we just settled for jump shots. We did not do a good job collectively in attacking the glass and going to the basket. That’s personnel-driven.
“Once we do spread the floor and the ball is moved we have to be mindful of just attacking. You can’t be afraid; you can’t be intimidated. You have to go in there with authority. Players that want to get to the free-throw line, they seek bodies. For them it’s not always about finishing the shot, they seek bodies to draw the and-1. That is something we will have to evaluate.”
J.J. seemed to hit on a similar theme when asked about the team’s needs.
“For us it’s guys like blue-collar guys, guys who do a lot of dirty work and do a lot of things that don’t show up in stat book,” J.J. said. “Those are the kind of guys that can help us out. We will see what happens. We’ve gotten better each year. Our postseason [this year] was probably the best it’s been.”
L.D. never could get his team to completely shed its isolation tendencies. When they got open shots and made them, then the ball and players moved and the Hawks were difficult to defend. That’s what happened in Games 1 and 4 against the Bulls.
When the defensive pressure intensified, or when the wrong guys took the wrong shots, then the Hawks started isolating and were easier to defend. That’s what happened in the fourth quarter of Game 5, which ended up being a lost opportunity for the Hawks to win the series.
Does L.D. still think this group of players us capable of running his offense?
“I’m still hopeful we can do that,” he said. “I think Chicago, their defensive pressure was much more intense than Orlando. Sometimes when you are playing under pressure you get sped up and you start getting away from the game plan. I think a lot of what Chicago did had a lot to do with that. That being said, we did not get to our spots like we did against Orlando. That tells me that it was jut the pressure of their defense.
“It was the same coverage [as Orlando] but once we played out of that double team [the Bulls] weren’t as organized as Orlando. I’m not going to abandon something that has been good to us. We just have to do a better job playing out of pressure, double teams. You still have to make plays and in making plays have to move the basketball. I thought we did a great job against Orlando. The Chicago series we weren’t as good.”
Joe said the offense “was kind of up and down” this season.
“We was all trying to feel each other out as far as him implementing his system and us trying to learn it,” he said. “At the same time there are times we looked great. That’s something we can build on and look forward to next year.”
Notes
- Teague said he’s scheduled for an MRI on his right wrist on Tuesday to make sure there’s no ligament damage.
- L.D. on meeting with Sund and owners: “I give them my views and hear their views. You have to slowly and methodically take your time and assess this season and the personnel, talk about things we lack and we need to get better. Do we have those players to make us better in certain areas or do we have to go out and find those kind of players? We have to look at everything and analyze everything and come to a decision about certain things, not necessarily an agreement. I’ve been around for a long time and I know you don’t always agree but important to lay it out on the table and talk about it.”
- L.D. on the postseason: “The question I asked myself, looking at the postseason, is were we better prepared this season than we were last year? Did we compete at a higher level this year than last year? Did we accomplish more goals than last year? I am my biggest critic when it comes to team getting prepared and going out there and executing game the plan, and I thought the answers to all those questions were, ‘Yes.’”
- Al on possibly adding a full-time center: “It’s going to be an interesting offseason because I think there are probably going to be some changes. I think having a bigger player like that to help is always a great strength and a great help. We will see what happens. I do like playing power forward. I like playing the center, as well, but if we can have another bigger body that would be great.”
- Smoove on if he prefers to play the 3: “It is what it is. It’s a controversial question. I’m just here to play.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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476 comments Add your comment
L.D. is a Clown
May 16th, 2011
12:01 am
What would have happed if Woody and LD would have seen the ability of Teague that so many fans, commentators and others saw? What would have happened if we had hired the Chicago coach away from Boston a year ago instead of keeping Woody knowing clearly that you were not going to bring him back? What if Joe did not take up so much of the salary cap? What if the Atlanta Spirit Group was able to spend more on free agents?
bjrufino
May 16th, 2011
1:09 am
my dream hawks lineup for next season
Teague
NIck young (sign as free agent)
Joe Johnson
Al HOrford
Dwight Howard (trade for marvin and josh smith)
Worldwide Clyde
May 16th, 2011
1:25 am
I say trade Horford. Matter of fact I didn’t want to draft Horford. We needed a center that year and years later we still need a center.
Worldwide Clyde
May 16th, 2011
1:31 am
Kris Humphries is a sleeper on this years free agent market.
Big Ray
May 16th, 2011
2:01 am
Marvin will be a 20ppg scorer ,
Ok, Joe is paid like a guy who should be first team All-NBA, but he’s not. You happy with that? Why is it that whenever somebody wants to compare an inferior player to Joe Johnson, the contract comes up?
I wish Marvin was the guy who was averaging 14 and 6 a game, as he was a few years back. But he’s not. I don’t care how much everyone else gets paid, Marvin is still the most timid, most deferring, and clumsiest guy in the starting lineup.
I mean, come on. You lose your starting spot to Jason Collins? Marvin isn’t in the game at the beginning. He’s not in the game at the end. He’s lost his ability to be effective and you swear up and down it’s becuase the man just doesn’t get enough shot attempts. Man, please. He can’t post up smaller players, gets pushed to the baseline at a bad angle when he drives, and now doesn’t hit open jumpers that often.
And none of that has ANYTHING to do with why a 6′9″ 240 lb guy can’t seem to rebound to save his life.
Big Ray
May 16th, 2011
2:07 am
Northcyde
As a former coach, you know that a player has ( or can have ) different responsibilities, depending on what position he plays.
When Horford plays the 5 and Smith plays the 4, who should play down on the blocks? Our 2 ( seeing that JJ may arguably be our best post player )?
I mean, that’s the imbalance this teams faces. It isn’t necessarily what position they play, but how they play when they play that position. Both Smith and Horford would rather play on the outside. But we need somebody to play on the inside.
Al is perceived to be stronger than Josh. This is why he plays the 5. So when he plays the 5 against bigger players, he can’t play them like when he’s playing a 4 . . whom may take him out on the perimeter a little more ( like how Bass and Boozer did ).
Co-sign. The imbalance can’t continue. And since we can’t get our guys to play bigger, then we must add size. Al goes or Josh goes, because this ownership group isn’t spending MORE money, especially if the CBA ends up lowering the salary cap.
Big Ray
May 16th, 2011
2:09 am
Grandad ,
I’d take somebody like Marc Gasol, but see, that’s how this organization operates. They don’t go after a guy BEFORE his team starts doing really well. The result is us adding guys like Joe Smith, Jason Collins, Josh Powell, etc. We either get them too late, or we get the wrong ones.
And the size/rebounding we need to add has to be in the STARTING LINEUP, not the bench. We have rebounding and physicality on the bench in the form of Zaza Pachulia. No, he isn’t the best backup center in the world, but he’s better than many out there. Gotta make those changes in the starting lineup.
Al goes, or Josh goes.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 16th, 2011
2:24 am
Sund helped ruin the Sonics with an assist from a unscrupulous owner.
What did you expect Sund to do with a GROUP of unscrupulous owners who think they know basketball? Why did the DASG continue to leave Billy Knightmare in place for so long? It wasn’t his ability to scout and draft well. Do you really think the DASG hired Sund because he showed himself to be a superb GM?
See the whole truth, rolled out a little at a time:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Atlanta-Georgia/Atlanta-Spirit-Sucks/114671988618038
The time has come to unite Hawks and Thrashers fans and compare notes: RISE UP!
terrell
May 16th, 2011
6:11 am
In other words, WE’RE SCREWED. Gotta trade Joe, Al, or Josh. It’s the only way we can get better. Y in the heck did we give Joe all that $? Damn! I know we couldnt of used it elsewhere, but you just cant pay Robin Batman’s $. You just cant.
terrell
May 16th, 2011
6:13 am
Al just needs to learn how to play first. Tired of hearing that pf or center crap. He was garbage at BOTH positions when it mattered.
terrell
May 16th, 2011
6:18 am
LD has lost his freakin mind. This team was far worse than last year. If old stubborn butt Woody would have benched Marvin and replaced him with Collins or Zaza vs Orlando, maybe we pull the upset last year too. Not to mention, Orlando was a much better team a year ago. I take nothing from the Orlando upset this year. Absolutely nothing! Woody was bad, but LD is worse. Hire a REAL COACH.
Grandad
May 16th, 2011
7:44 am
Big Ray
I’m with you all the way;
preferrably Josh being traded as opposed to Al.
I’m still of the belief that Joe can be moved.
I’m not willing to give Joe away
but would trade him for a talented Big.
*[..exp / Pau Gasol..]
Grandad
May 16th, 2011
8:20 am
Last night Chicago made me a Bulls fan.
If you are a fan of basketball;
what I call real, old school basketball,
then Chicago last eve was a clinic.
It was team -vs- “the big three”.
It was Thibs -vs- Stern.
It was “holy crap” defense -vs- “the decision”
It was passion [..Noah..] -vs- pure talent [..LeBron..]
It was “The Miami of Canada” -vs- South Beach.
It was floor burns -vs- Bibby
It was Rose v. Wade
It was the goll-durndest most smothering elite defense
that I’ve seen in the NBA in quite some time.
Makes an old man want to shed a tear.
Yep, I’ll be a Bulls fan until the play-offs are finished.
doug
May 16th, 2011
8:38 am
zaza @ center, al @ pf, Marvin @sf, teague @ pg, jj @ sg. That’s your first team. marvin has shown in the past that he will go to the basket and get fouled. imho. zaza is a hard nosed player and will not back down from anybody. give that a try and see if some cemistry and be found. imo that is a good defensive combo also. what do you think.
ChiTown
May 16th, 2011
8:41 am
Amen Grandad….one of the best team efforts I have ever witnessed at any level.
The Point Forward » Posts The Opening Tip: Monday, May 16 «
May 16th, 2011
8:55 am
[...] Michael Cunningham, Atlanta Journal-Constitution: I know there are lots of questions about what the Hawks can and should do. Honestly, they are difficult to answer without knowing what the new CBA rules will look like. The players quickly rejected the league’s latest offer, which reportedly proposed a hard salary cap and salary rollbacks. What will be the amount of the salary cap? What about the luxury tax? Will there be an amnesty provision to allow teams to shed salary? Will there still be cap exceptions and, if not, what about those teams whose payrolls are above the new salary cap? … Under the current rules it’s hard to see how the Hawks could even fill out the roster with the minimum 13 players without paying the tax. Right now their options are limited to trades and using exceptions to acquire players whose salaries that don’t put them over the tax level. Assuming the tax threshold is about the same as it was the past three seasons, about $70 million, the Hawks would have roughly $3 million of wiggle room to sign six players. Again, that’s based on the current rules and some assumptions. With the way things are going with the labor situation, who knows what the new system will look like when the league starts playing basketball again. But clearly the Hawks, like all teams, are counting on new rules more favorable to owners. … [Joe Johnson] seemed to hit on a similar theme when asked about the team’s needs. “For us it’s guys like blue-collar guys, guys who do a lot of dirty work and do a lot of things that don’t show up in stat book,” J.J. said. “Those are the kind of guys that can help us out. We will see what happens. We’ve gotten better each year. Our postseason [this year] was probably the best it’s been.” [...]
dj dascorpian
May 16th, 2011
8:59 am
Saw the game with Miami Heat and the Bulls. The Bulls are solid fundementally, and they run plays in the halfcourt set. Derrick Rose is their key player. Miami played Chicago almost like Atlanta with the iso’s with the “big three”, but it didn’t work. TNT’s Kenny Smith’s analysis was on point: Miami will not win this series with the that kind of play. Miami will adjust. The Hawks need a coach that has experience and coaching from a defensive standpoint and aquire guys who are willing to throw their bodies around for the sake of the team-as does Chicago. Let this series be a lesson-to Sund, LD, and the rest of the Hawks management-Yes, Chicago should be a blue print for aspiring teams to emulate. Atlanta has a prototype player (Jeff Teague), who can be developed into an aggressive animal such as Rose. I know you can’t teach heart, but you sure can get a player to develop his game to the point of confidence that a Rose type MVP player can accomplish. Everyone knows the MJ story. College players are looking at these playoffs as well. Only a few will take their game to the next level to develop themselves into an MVP calliber talent.
doc
May 16th, 2011
9:02 am
yeah grandad, i was becoming a believer in chitown early on and really liked what i saw live during the regular season and play offs at the phillips. i must admit last night was the first time i was really able to sit down and concentrate on them and it was wonderful. by the third quarter i was doing fist pumps as they were taking it to the heat. they made the heat big three amigos look as feeble as our big three and maybe it might even put our guys in a different perspective after it is all over.
loved your comment about stern vs. thibs. sad to say it is so true. can you believe a group of professional refs did not give a tech on a 6 against 5 on the court and simply stopped the clock and did a do over? in order for chicago to beat stern it will take several knockouts just like last night. with the analogy to fighting, i said last night that the heat may not be able to answer the bell for seven nights against this team.
also, do you like taj gibson as much as i do. now why do we not have akir instead of glayrs for turkey. man the hawks suck and really hate to find devlopmental bigs dont they instead marching out the old broken down models like etan.
any doubts that bibby isnt and wasnt done? i am glad we got kirk but we paid too much because we had a coach unable to utilize and build all his resources. sorry, that is now true and on his resume just as it was on woody’s. mo and bibby for hinrich would have and should have been enough. maybe throw in the draft pick but hilton for jordan which it was? now that was a steal for the wiz in our panic.
dj dascorpian
May 16th, 2011
9:06 am
Thunder and Mavs-good series. I like the Thunder in the Finals.
doc
May 16th, 2011
9:23 am
gd, one more thing, all that happened on a relatively quiet night by rose where he was apologizing to his team at half time. now, that is accountability. where is that quality in our lead dog?
is there a vegas line on when the queen quits in this series?
vava74
May 16th, 2011
9:30 am
Against CHI’s defense and in particular against Bogans and Deng:
Wade 7/17
Lebron 5/15
If CHI keeps it up, JJ’s numbers (without similar quality help from other guys to attract defenses)
will not look that bad.
Geemack
May 16th, 2011
9:30 am
Grandad
I must admit I hate the Bulls, but I’m a fan of great basketball.
The defensive performance the Bulls put on last night was very impressive.
However here is my questions. Why can’t the Hawks who are just as talented play that way?
They beat the Heat hustle and great defensive intensity.
HoosierHawk
May 16th, 2011
9:33 am
Compare Horford to Josh in this year’s playoffs. I like Horford’s attitude better, but he has higher trade value and does not really bring it on the defensive end. If we trade Josh and do not get a shot blocking center in return, we will be the softest team in the NBA.
Peter
May 16th, 2011
9:35 am
How do you win with a group that plays their own way and doesn’t listen to any coach ?
doc
May 16th, 2011
10:05 am
yes and vava, josh smith’s series against the bulls will look a whole lot better.
al’s will still suck!!!!!!! no excuses, his injury from blake was history.
and zaza and teague; increased cred, babeee!!
geemack, you see it, i am sure knowing your bball acumen so that was rhetorical. they play that way until they look and not see any reinforcements on the bench. never was there a quarter this year that saw al and josh both on the bench flagging on the other two young bigs off the bench as they manhandled, posterized and went to he floor or offensive boards the wat asik and gibson do. there wasnt a watkins off the bench to lead the break or get a busted play back on course with a saved t o and turn it into a three pointer while rose rests. bogans is not your father’s maaarvin. get the differences now for starters? and thibs is in chicago. anything else? they also dont have the askg.
again if this keeps up then our hawks comparably look better as i said last night after the first half.
KCG
May 16th, 2011
10:08 am
I hate to say it but JJ is the biggest problem with this team. Like Charles Barkley said on 790 “It does not matter which industry you’re working in, the highest paid person is always expected to produce more” The entire Hawks team takes on the personality of JJ. That’s why they’re so soft and don’t care sometimes. How would you feel if someone at your job got paid dbl your salary for practically doing the same thing or for even doing less than what you do. JJ’s salary and performance gives every Hawks player an excuse for not playing well. In the back of their minds they are thinking “Well its not like JJ is playing any better and he makes twice as much as I do”. I would trade JJ before anybody else, this is the only way to change the culture of the team.
vava74
May 16th, 2011
10:13 am
GeeMack,
Obviously this is too early in the series but why don’t you put that same question to MIA?
With such great 3 players together, why can’t they beat “less talent”?
The answer is simple:
COACHING
Thibs was a major party in the Celtics’ success and they missed him this year.
He was COY. A very deserving one.
We played a decently good series but we were out coached, because beyond the X’s and O’s (where there was a marked improvement since last year), hustle can also be coached: you bench the guys who don’t hustle/play according to instructions, regardless of status.
Early in the season, Boozer (80 million contract) was benched in the 4th quarter because he was not getting it done.
He went to the press and whine and then quickly apologized. I am 100% sure that he was told to shut up, hustle and then he would get to play and that if not, he would not even see the daylight.
Some of our guys received the completely opposite treatment: disobeyed orders and did not get penalized:
When JJ pounded too much and went astray from a collective game, he should have been “sanctioned” (bear in mind that he still deserves some ISO plays per game), but he didn’t;
When Smoove went perimeter happy, he should have been “sanctioned”, but he didn’t;
When Al became soft and whining as girl, he should have been “sanctioned”, but he didn’t;
When Jamal showed no interest in even trying to play D or improve his shot selection, he should have been “sanctioned”, but he didn’t.
The only guys that was sanctioned when he made a mistake were Teague and the bottom of the bench guys!!!
SteveW
May 16th, 2011
10:30 am
I feel better now that Chicago destroyed Miami. Maybe we’re not so bad after all so to speak.
Chicago is just 12 deep and TT knows how to use his depth.
Everybody seems to know their role.
No agendas to keep superior talent on the bench.
No head cases.
No prima donnas
Just BB players with an amazing PG in Rose.
SteveW
May 16th, 2011
10:30 am
I know we can never be certain, but I wonder who would win if LD coached Chicago and TT coached the Hawks?
My guess would be the Hawks.
SteveW
May 16th, 2011
10:32 am
During the Exit Interviews I wonder if management told Al to work on his post game and get stronger?
Wonder what they told Josh?
Rusty
May 16th, 2011
10:32 am
Get rid of that dumb coach
ILL-Logical
May 16th, 2011
10:56 am
@KCG
May 16th, 2011
10:08 am
My point exactly. After taking a moment to reflect on the Hawk’s season, I have come to the conclusion that as the old adage states-the same rope that pulled you up can hang you- the contract thaat brought Joe Johnson to Atlanta and caused the rift that continues to cloud the team’s future because of the same ,minus one-the seemingly smart one,owners continue to practice Joe-ism.
Every decision from Coach,style of play and financial revolves around Joe and his status with the team. And while Joe the player has paid some dividends; his contracts are killing the the team’s growth and potential. And it isn’t like he is going to get any better.
The Chicago Way? No way ,unless there is new ownership who might look at Dallas; an ambitious and wealthy owner bought a stagnant yet promising franchise from a group of bickering owners and look at them now.I don’t want to keep up the straw man arguments that continue after every loss. trade this one or that one when the problems begin at the top.
doc
May 16th, 2011
11:00 am
yes vava.
as far as the iso offense as the tnt guys put it iso wont work against teams that play set plays and dont fall apart on offense or defense. both sides take discipline with defense requiring more effort.
PBT Monday morning one liners | ProBasketballTalk
May 16th, 2011
11:15 am
[...] hard to talk about improving the Hawks without knowing what the new CBA will be. Once we all do know, we’ll see just how insanely [...]
Fundamentals
May 16th, 2011
11:16 am
Bulls definitely proved what real team basketball is all about. I agree that the Queen and her court will collapse if Chicago can go up 3-1. They might just make our showing look good against the Bulls.
My issues with the team is our lack of passion and professionalism. I’ve said it 1000 times. We played them toe to toe in a few games, we gave a few away without even trying. They embarassed us at home twice, especially in the final game. Why can’t we bring it when it counts? We don’t play team ball every night, and thus we’re at home watching a team we very possibly should’ve beat? Will that make our kids work harder over the offseason? Time will tell, at least now we can raise the bar to ECF? Maybe even higher with a few key moves. Wherever we set the bar…that’s where they’ll stop. Why not ask for a championship? Isn’t that why we play the game?
We enter next season with the same questions and no answers.
Thank you Jeff Teague for showing us how to raise our game when it matters. Thank you for playing with heart, professionalism and skill when it really counted. I look forward to seeing more of you next season.
I MUS WRITE
May 16th, 2011
11:23 am
So basicly we dont have the money to sign the players or the coach we need. Same ol same ol in 2011-2012…………….Wow They thought attendance was bad last year….
I MUS WRITE
May 16th, 2011
11:28 am
Ray dont waste your time pointing out the obvious when it comes to Marvin -some people just dont wanna see/hear the truth including our current and former coach….This guy is terrible and so is his contract……Pape Sy would give us more if he played those minutes…..
JAke
May 16th, 2011
11:37 am
Trade Al horford for Andrew Bynum
PG.Teague
SG.Hinrick
SF.Joe Johnson
PF.Josh Smith
C.Andrew Bynum
doc
May 16th, 2011
11:38 am
fundamentals:
My issues with the team is our lack of passion and professionalism.
my problem is with the askg who does not get the resources or a coach. i said before the series against the magic that i thought they would only last 5 games unless they really needed the rest and the last 6 games of the season were to recharge the batteries. they often come out strong and then fade as the depth isnt there.
they did well until the fatigue factor set in with the bulls and that happens when you are 7 playing against 9 to 11 over time. it is also what the heat may find as they are thin, too especially against big quick aggressive bigs. anthony cannot hold his own there and mike miller wont provide much. funny korver is playing defense and miller cant get healthy and i might have taken miller over korver. well, not really because i have liked his game and effort for awhile but it is to make a point that the bulls grew with their coach and either they got the guys who had talent or they got coached up and got better instead of floundering waiting for a chance off the bench.
dawgrific
May 16th, 2011
11:50 am
What happened to Al’s low post game. Was I dreaming when I recalled him having a baby-hook shot and a few other moves down low. Now it seems that he is only a 12-18 foot “shooter.” Also, I don’t believe Josh will ever give up wanting to be an outside shooter. The shame of his game is he IS a good ball-handler and passer, and I think that makes him think that he is a good shooter as well. If he committed himself to being a low post player in the half-court offense, I truly believe that he could be almost unstoppable. I don’t believe that will ever happen however, and that makes me think that we could be better moving him while his value is still (I assume) relatively high.
northcyde
May 16th, 2011
11:52 am
JJ’s contract isn’t doing anything of the sort. Not yet at least.
Some people act like he’s making 20 million a year already. The only way that JJ’s contract wouldn’t hurt the team, would be for the Hawks to not have him on the team at all . . and to not have added anybody over the summer.
People were talking about signing John Salmons in place of JJ at 1/2 the price. Is that what people really want around here?
If JJ is Robin, what is Salmons? Alfred?
northcyde
May 16th, 2011
12:04 pm
And people need to stop throwing out the word “potential” around here. There comes a point to where you see what a guy is as a player. When a guy is into his 6th or 7th year, and you’re still talking about his “potential”, his window of opportunity to drastically improve may have passed him by. Then, by the time you realize that his “potential” will not materialize the way you wanted it to, it’s already too late.
JChikara
May 16th, 2011
12:07 pm
I don’t know if this is possible, but is there a way that Atlanta could trade Josh Smith for say, the number two pick in this year’s draft (even if they have to do it with other salaried players) and select SF Derrick Williams from Arizona?
shawn
May 16th, 2011
12:13 pm
the scary thing about the bulls is they are under the salary cap now! and they are on d12 list of teams he would go to by trading boozer and asik and the 5 first round draft picks they have for the next 2years they would be unstopable imangine rose/freeagent/deng/noah/howard who could stop that lineup being coach by thibs Hawks we need to make serious moves the bulls went from 8seed to first in one year and were happy we won two games in the semi against a team who was put together over the summer! last but maybe most important the bulls payroll is 56mil the hawks is 67mil how are we paying 11mil more for this team did you all watch the game last night that team is below the cap we need changes doing the samething over expecting different result is INSANE!
Geemack
May 16th, 2011
12:14 pm
@Vava74
I’m a Hawks and Lakers fan. I could careless about the way the Heat played. Also the Heat are in the Eastern conference finals and still have the opportunity to change their fate, with improve play.
I do agree with you that coaching is a major issue with the way this team plays.
Also I think roster changes will be made without addressing the coaching issue…first.
As a Hawks fan it’s hard for me to stomach, our team losing to a less talented, and less experienced team because, we didn’t play hard. SMH.
alk
May 16th, 2011
12:17 pm
What can the ASG boys do, to clean their mess? They have several players with unwieldy contracts, who don’t want to play, and probably no teams willing to take a chance on without the hawks paying a huge portion of their contracts.
And of course the players see that there is no punishment for their antics, so why change?
So, the hawks will probably continue play this when, until their contracts expire?
How about a preemptive strike, my ownership, trade or buyout the contracts of everyone, except the over paid trouble makers. Bring in development league players to fill out the team. ASG can afford those guys.
Then run our trouble making out there on the floor for the whole 150 minutes, every game. Or as large a portion of that, as possible.
And with the help they’ll have, if the tm’s don’t bust their behinds, they will lose most every game. Along with any respect they might have, from the rest of the league, for their potential abilities.
Yes, it sounds extreme and a little petty, but nothing else that’s been tried has had any affect on these over paid babies.
I wonder if the other teams fans, who seem to be in the majority, in Atlanta, will even come out for the games?
Other benefits, a buyer for the team can pick it up for a song. And either bring the right people to run it, or move it?
All the mental energy from fans, wasted on the hawks, could then be directed to the other Atlanta teams, that yearly fall short of their potential.
That’s my two cents worth.
alk
vava74
May 16th, 2011
12:22 pm
JJ’s numbers against CHI:
Conf. Semifinals ATL G6 GS6 mpg41.5 FG% 0.489 3FG% 0.500 FT%0.889 oreb0.5 dreb2.2 rpg2.7 apg3.2 spg1.7 bpg0.0 topg2.5 pfpg1.7 ppg19.7
If anything, either JJ failed to shoot enough to try and carry us or the Hawks failed to execute an offense that allowed our best player to shoot more when we needed him to.
It’s obviously early in the series but CHI contained Wade to 7/17 and Lebron to 5/15 with only 4FTs each.
It’s very difficult for CHI to replicate this but this game allows to think that if Lebron and Wade which are Batman and Batman could not get it done (and it was their Alfred (Bosh) who got free enough to get a good offensive night) then JJ without any significant help had it tough to do much better.
Heck, Jamal was miserable, Diaper Al was missing in action for most games, Josh cannot be relied upon co-carrying an offense… and it ended up being Teague who managed to keep defenses honest.
With Thibs this same group of guys would have been put in line and executing much better on both ends of the floor.
vava74
May 16th, 2011
12:25 pm
Geemack,
“As a Hawks fan it’s hard for me to stomach, our team losing to a less talented, and less experienced team because, we didn’t play hard. SMH.”
You are not entirely right: POOR/LACK OF DISCIPLE COACHING ALLOWED THIS HAPPEN.
The players tried much harder than last year but there were lapses in coaching/preparation/mindset (and some really bad officiating in crucial moments) that little by little created the conditions for them being over matched.
Teezo
May 16th, 2011
12:30 pm
After a nice roundtable with my homeboys I came to realize that JJ will not be traded unless its to a up & coming team that needs a vet and Im pretty sure there isn’t a team out there that fits the bill…Anyway, this team HAS to get rid of Smith or Horford in a package deal to get a sidekick for JJ, whether its a big body or wing player…JJ needs a partner, as someone said, Teague had to floor opened up because of the JJ double/triple teams so imagine what another player of JJ calibar would do…This team is only missing a 2nd threat and effort…For those bashing JJ, look at what CHI did to Wade/James…That is a team that knows who to take out of games and who to let take over, they knew Bosh couldn’t beat em by himself….I call that good coaching, something we don’t have…Peace…
shawn
May 16th, 2011
12:33 pm
Ppl who still believe in josh are fooling themselves it not like he does’nt have talent. he is a head case he just doesn’t play to his strength and it hurts the team. he has been in the league 7 years its time to move on. another thing joe should avg somewhere near 18 to 20 shot a game this ideal that horford gets 12 shoot smoove get 14 shoots and on and one this team needs to know there role in the offense because it seem to me everyone thinks they are equal.