Atlanta Hawks: The Chicago Way?
The Hawks need to get better. The Bulls needed to do the same last summer and Al said the Hawks might learn something from the way they went about it.
“That’s the perfect example,” he said. “They got that kid Asik. They got Korver, a shooter. They addressed their needs and got better. That’s a blueprint that I think if I’m the team I would look at.”
So let’s look at what the Bulls did last summer and see if the Hawks can copy the same formula:
- Al’s theory falls apart from the start: The Bulls had just $34 million in committed salaries for 2010-11 after clearing space to get in on the 2010 free-agent bonanza. The Hawks have about $67 million in committed salaries mostly because of J.J. and Smoove’s contracts and Al’s extension.
- The Bulls cleared more cap space by trading Hinrich and a first-round pick to the Wizards for a second-round pick. The Wizards coveted Hinrich and were willing to take on his $17 million salary. The Hawks don’t have a first-round draft pick. They also aren’t under the cap and so can’t make such a trade without taking back salary (under the current rules).
- The Bulls hired a coach with a single-minded obsession with defense (and didn’t break the bank to do it). L.D. talked a lot about defense when he was hired, too, but his personnel decisions usually didn’t match the talk. (The Hawks did end up playing good D in the playoffs and L.D. deserves some credit for that, especially his decision to use the Twin lineup against Orlando. But D was neither a big part of the team’s culture nor was it usually at the forefront of the way L.D. distributed minutes among his backcourt.)
- The Bulls signed Boozer for five years and $80 million. The Hawks don’t have cap space so they can’t outright sign such a player even if they wanted to pay the tax. But let’s go ahead and say the contract for J.J. last summer was their Boozer move.
- The Bulls signed Korver for 5 years and $15 million (the final year is partially guaranteed). They could do that because they had cap space. The Hawks can’t because they don’t.
- After the Magic matched their offer sheet to Redick, the Bulls signed Ronnie Brewer for two years and $9.5 guaranteed. The Hawks can’t do a deal like that because . . . well, you know.
- The Bulls signed Asik for two years and $3.6 million. They had acquired him in a 2008 draft-night trade with Portland in which they sent away three second-round picks. Maybe Pape Sy or Gladyr can be the next Asik?
- The Bulls acquired Watson in a sign-and-trade with Golden State. The deal was for two years and $7 million guaranteed. They could do this because of their cap room.
- The Bulls signed Bogans, Kurt Thomas and Scalabrine to minimum-salaried contracts. The Hawks presumably make similar moves, depending on the details of the new CBA.
Clearly, because of salary commitments already on the books, the Chicago Way can’t be the Hawks’ Way.
What’s next?
I know there are lots of questions about what the Hawks can and should do. Honestly, they are difficult to answer without knowing what the new CBA rules will look like. The players quickly rejected the league’s latest offer, which reportedly proposed a hard salary cap and salary rollbacks.
What will be the amount of the salary cap? What about the luxury tax? Will there be an amnesty provision to allow teams to shed salary? Will there still be cap exceptions and, if not, what about those teams whose payrolls are above the new salary cap?
“As players we are just trying to do the right thing for current players and the players that are going to come behind us and for what the players before us worked so hard for,” Hinrich said. “We’ll see. Right now it probably looks like July 1 we are going to be locked out. For now, it’s up in the air.”
Under the current rules it’s hard to see how the Hawks could even fill out the roster with the minimum 13 players without paying the tax. Right now their options are limited to trades and using exceptions to acquire players whose salaries that don’t put them over the tax level. Assuming the tax threshold is about the same as it was the past three seasons, about $70 million, the Hawks would have roughly $3 million of wiggle room to sign six players.
Again, that’s based on the current rules and some assumptions. With the way things are going with the labor situation, who knows what the new system will look like when the league starts playing basketball again. But clearly the Hawks, like all teams, are counting on new rules more favorable to owners.
L.D. didn’t want to get into exactly what he thinks the Hawks need because he hadn’t talked to Rick Sund or the owners yet. (Sund, by the way, says he’s not talking until after the team’s scouting combine, which ends a week from Wednesday). But I noted the team’s lack of scoring at the rim and also their low free-throw rate and asked if that’s something that can only change with different personnel.
“Possibly,” L.D. said. “A lot of that is simply making the wrong decision out of ball movement on when to attack or settling for jump shots. You guys heard me say time and time again how we just settled for jump shots. We did not do a good job collectively in attacking the glass and going to the basket. That’s personnel-driven.
“Once we do spread the floor and the ball is moved we have to be mindful of just attacking. You can’t be afraid; you can’t be intimidated. You have to go in there with authority. Players that want to get to the free-throw line, they seek bodies. For them it’s not always about finishing the shot, they seek bodies to draw the and-1. That is something we will have to evaluate.”
J.J. seemed to hit on a similar theme when asked about the team’s needs.
“For us it’s guys like blue-collar guys, guys who do a lot of dirty work and do a lot of things that don’t show up in stat book,” J.J. said. “Those are the kind of guys that can help us out. We will see what happens. We’ve gotten better each year. Our postseason [this year] was probably the best it’s been.”
L.D. never could get his team to completely shed its isolation tendencies. When they got open shots and made them, then the ball and players moved and the Hawks were difficult to defend. That’s what happened in Games 1 and 4 against the Bulls.
When the defensive pressure intensified, or when the wrong guys took the wrong shots, then the Hawks started isolating and were easier to defend. That’s what happened in the fourth quarter of Game 5, which ended up being a lost opportunity for the Hawks to win the series.
Does L.D. still think this group of players us capable of running his offense?
“I’m still hopeful we can do that,” he said. “I think Chicago, their defensive pressure was much more intense than Orlando. Sometimes when you are playing under pressure you get sped up and you start getting away from the game plan. I think a lot of what Chicago did had a lot to do with that. That being said, we did not get to our spots like we did against Orlando. That tells me that it was jut the pressure of their defense.
“It was the same coverage [as Orlando] but once we played out of that double team [the Bulls] weren’t as organized as Orlando. I’m not going to abandon something that has been good to us. We just have to do a better job playing out of pressure, double teams. You still have to make plays and in making plays have to move the basketball. I thought we did a great job against Orlando. The Chicago series we weren’t as good.”
Joe said the offense “was kind of up and down” this season.
“We was all trying to feel each other out as far as him implementing his system and us trying to learn it,” he said. “At the same time there are times we looked great. That’s something we can build on and look forward to next year.”
Notes
- Teague said he’s scheduled for an MRI on his right wrist on Tuesday to make sure there’s no ligament damage.
- L.D. on meeting with Sund and owners: “I give them my views and hear their views. You have to slowly and methodically take your time and assess this season and the personnel, talk about things we lack and we need to get better. Do we have those players to make us better in certain areas or do we have to go out and find those kind of players? We have to look at everything and analyze everything and come to a decision about certain things, not necessarily an agreement. I’ve been around for a long time and I know you don’t always agree but important to lay it out on the table and talk about it.”
- L.D. on the postseason: “The question I asked myself, looking at the postseason, is were we better prepared this season than we were last year? Did we compete at a higher level this year than last year? Did we accomplish more goals than last year? I am my biggest critic when it comes to team getting prepared and going out there and executing game the plan, and I thought the answers to all those questions were, ‘Yes.’”
- Al on possibly adding a full-time center: “It’s going to be an interesting offseason because I think there are probably going to be some changes. I think having a bigger player like that to help is always a great strength and a great help. We will see what happens. I do like playing power forward. I like playing the center, as well, but if we can have another bigger body that would be great.”
- Smoove on if he prefers to play the 3: “It is what it is. It’s a controversial question. I’m just here to play.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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476 comments Add your comment
Buddy Grizzard
May 14th, 2011
5:05 pm
“Menawhile, the remaining JC on the roster was never given a set of double and/or staggered screens versus the Bulls when they were playing inside his shorts after game one.” – Mitch
I endorse this post!
“Then- “Thibs” again holding ALL (everyone) accountable.” – Grandad
Grandad, you only get a coach who holds players equally accountable for about $2m a season. ASG could only afford $1.5m so we get disingenuousness and double standards.
“Among centers he finished 6th behind DHoward, T. Chandler, Noah (who was listed as forward / center), TDuncan, and Chuck Hayes.” – Sautee
Um… let’s go get Chuck Hayes?
“It’s all about coaching now and maximize the talent u have on your team.” – hawkville
Co-sign. As MC catalogues, the Hawks have little wiggle room to make personnel changes (barring a major trade). The single most important factor influencing whether or not the Hawks improve next season is COACHING. The talent we have is the talent we have. Will Vegas be able to maximize it and take it farther than he did this year?
“Betcha’ can’t figure out what I’m thinkin’ right now.” – Grandad
LMAO. No I can’t… not on your level Grandad.
myrak43
May 14th, 2011
5:06 pm
realatl. plz stop it. JJ is hear we are not moving him. Infact JJ is not the problem. what the Hawks need is someone to score in the post. Pau Gasol, Carl Landry, Bogut, hell even Nazi Mahommand would help us out. see NBA playoffs are about the half court game. and the half court game is played inside out not outside in.
what I mean is you have to establish scoring in the low post for your opposition to respect you ablity to score inside. that will give you spacing so you can have open looks on the perimeter. if JJ had open looks and single coverage he would earn his contract.
mykhalc
May 14th, 2011
5:08 pm
as this team exists now the players KNOW they are NOT competin’ to win a championship…they are workin’ to get better…ONLY. Joe stated as much in MC’s article. and it’s always gonna be the case with this collection of players. they either know that the talent is not here or that the talent that is here will not work hard enough to actually compete for a championship. like i said, it’s ingrained at this point and the fact that this team has NO real leader then there is no one here now to lead them outta this abyss.
ChiTown
May 14th, 2011
5:11 pm
A couple of the posters have it right….its not about about the talent, its about playing smart and hard. With all other things being equal, does anyone think the Hawks would be a better team by bringing in Rose or Labron?
They would be better off spending their money on a coach who would demand 110% from all players at both ends of the court. They would quickly attract players willing to do what it takes, while those not willing to put forth the effort would fade out of the picture.
Grandad
May 14th, 2011
5:20 pm
Buddy Grizzard
nekkid Brazillian maidens
Sautee
May 14th, 2011
5:22 pm
Buddy,
Former USC running back Stafon Johnson dropped a weighted barbell on his throat and crushed his windpipe. But he didn’t die. So, following your logic, since it “didn’t kill him”, (like Ray said Drew “won’t kill this team”), Stafon endorses dropping a weighted barbell on your windpipe, right?
See how silly the reach of that logic is?
tyger
May 14th, 2011
5:25 pm
Excellent article…
1. Trades are the only route….
2. Marvin traded for a lottery pick…
3. Josh Howard, Caron Butler, Tracy McGrady available…
4. Hawks need a true 7”2 center not 6′10…
5. A slasher w/ handles that can play outside/in…
6. Jamal Crawford sign&trade for JR Smith…
7. Not sold on Teague as starter…cant shoot…
8. Smoove is heart/soul, despite mental lapses…
9. LD did a great job for us, regular season is irrelevant…
10. Hawks have to look to D-league for hidden gems…
Buddy Grizzard
May 14th, 2011
5:25 pm
“Menawhile, the remaining JC on the roster was never given a set of double and/or staggered screens versus the Bulls when they were playing inside his shorts after game one.” – Mitch
I endorse this post!
“Then- “Thibs” again holding ALL (everyone) accountable.” – Grandad
Grandad, you only get a coach who holds players equally accountable for about $2m a season. ASG could only afford $1.5m so we get disingenuousness and double standards.
“Among centers he finished 6th behind DHoward, T. Chandler, Noah (who was listed as forward / center), TDuncan, and Chuck Hayes.” – Sautee
Um… let’s go get Chuck Hayes?
“It’s all about coaching now and maximize the talent u have on your team.” – hawkville
Co-sign. As MC catalogues, the Hawks have little wiggle room to make personnel changes (barring a major trade). The single most important factor influencing whether or not the Hawks improve next season is COACHING. The talent we have is the talent we have. Will Vegas be able to maximize it and take it farther than he did this year?
“Betcha’ can’t figure out what I’m thinkin’ right now.” – Grandad
LMAO. No I can’t… not on your level Grandad.
“They would be better off spending their money on a coach who would demand 110% from all players at both ends of the court.” – ChiTown
Can’t afford $2m per season for a coach that demands accountability ChiTown. I mean we can spend $126m all day for players with no heart, but $2m a season for a real coach? Not this organization.
“You might need a bigger shoehorn…” – Sautee
I got my jumbo shoehorn, my tinfoil hat, and I’m sticking to my guns here.
Buddy Grizzard
May 14th, 2011
5:29 pm
“Stafon endorses dropping a weighted barbell on your windpipe, right?” – Sautee
You missed your calling sir… philosophy professor, emphasis in logic.
Buddy Grizzard
May 14th, 2011
5:31 pm
Whoops my bad on the double post.
Slimjr
May 14th, 2011
5:41 pm
I wonder what you can get for an ISO+Alice package deal? Maybe an ECF next year????
Kick rocks Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “He’ll escort you right to the rim”.. A buster like your Bro from another mother…………………………………….
Slimjr
May 14th, 2011
5:44 pm
Coach Hollis definitely beats Chicago with the Hawks squad!!
Larry was Lame…………………….
Grandad
May 14th, 2011
5:45 pm
G-Dad’s trade of the day:
(this one is predicated on moving Joe for a Big)
*[in a contiguous deal]
Josh & Marvin to Houston;
—for—
Kevin Martin & [..Brad Miller or Hasheem Thabeet..]
(whichever bad contract Houston wants to shed most)
+ Plus + Houston’s [second] 1st round pick.
# 23 & use it to select Justin Harper, Richmond.
At this point, I think Justin Harper is my early favorite
to be a draft steal as was Tibor Pleiss last year.
(whom we stole then sold) [for $3m]
$3m = 2 yr sal for LD, that’s about right.
Slimjr
May 14th, 2011
5:46 pm
Allstar-Al=fake power forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
May 14th, 2011
5:46 pm
Hollins^^^^^
bigdave
May 14th, 2011
5:49 pm
“Why do some of you insist on knowing what they really mean’t
or what they really want.
Everyone on this board knows we need a Big, at least one if not two.”
what do you mean? what they really meant, is, or should be, exactly what they said. see, when you combine what Al said here, w/ what he said on the all Nba Al blog its quite obvious even if he was being “judicious”. what we really need is the bigs currently on payroll to play as bigs on both sides of the floor, see Al can start by helping himself.
what that quote does reveal is the mindset of one player who is willing to do whatever it takes for his team, vs one who feels the team should cater to his wishes. he’s forcing the hand of the team by going out and working on PF/SF game. people only say he’s a natural PF b/c he physical looks the part.. but he naturally plays w/ the skill of a C. so he’d rather work on what doesnt come as natural rather than bulk and man up and play his role on the Hawks. it comes down to who’s the best PF b/c im not sure i want this guy playing C for me, not w/ that mentality.. now way.
pff.. and this is the “leader” so many of yall make him out to be.. Josh’s play and words look more to part.
Sautee
May 14th, 2011
5:55 pm
Buddy,
“You missed your calling sir… philosophy professor, emphasis in logic.”
How do you know that I’m not?
But you dodged my question. You can stick to your guns all you want, but it’s completely faulty logic to say that because Big Ray said “Drew won’t kill this team”. that he thinks it’s “good for the Hawks” for Drew to stay, and that he “endorses” Drew staying, as my Stafon example showed.
But hey, no one said fanhood was ever logical.
wordsmithtom
May 14th, 2011
5:59 pm
Excellent write up.
I’m of a mind that the trade for Kirk was an admission that JC1 would be leaving. Bibby would soon be a backup to whomever became the point, and he wouldn’t take that role gracefully. We probably gave up a late first round draft pick, but we got experience and defence in Kirk, and JC1’s money can be used for a backup 5. Assuming Teague works on his outside shot this summer and comes in with a leader’s attitude, he’ll be the starting point. Kirk then backs him and JJ with slightly less offense, but much better defense than JC1.
Marvin can return to a 3′rd scoring option.
JJ is not a problem….but he is not the killer who can will this team to greatness.
jason
May 14th, 2011
6:12 pm
Center that will affect this team without trading the “core” Deandre Jordan. Small foward…….. IRDK
Tell the truth
May 14th, 2011
6:17 pm
The Hawks are still in big trouble- they are a jump shooting team with no one who really drives to the hoop other than Teague. They desperately need a big man who can defend AND score. They also need some better talent on the bench- Their bench is terrible.
Sautee
May 14th, 2011
6:17 pm
wordsmithtom,
“JJ is not a problem….but he is not the killer who can will this team to greatness.”
And THAT’S the problem, in that we are paying him such big money despite him not having that kind of “will”. So his contract is an albatross on serious improvements. I don’t think ANY team staying under the luxury tax can afford to pay $16+ M a year for a complementary player vs. a “big dog”.
tom
May 14th, 2011
6:28 pm
JJ needs a post up game with a turnaround jumper like jordan had in his later years. He’s got the size and skill to do it.
Rusty
May 14th, 2011
6:53 pm
Mitch just read your blog at 3:21 agree with everything you said
ken
May 14th, 2011
7:12 pm
Congrats to the Hawks for a real good season from a Bulls fan. Let me say this, you guys would be crazy to trade Josh smith. He is so talented, and a great competitor. I agree Joe johnson is off an on with his intensity, but what you need to add is a true leader to your team. Someone to get in the face of his teammates and lead them. The hawks lack that more than anything. The only player I would trade is Crawford. I like him as a young man, I remember when the Bulls drafted him, but my friends he is not a winner. For whatever reason. I was always confident in the Bulls winning because i know he is so proned for bad shots, which has been his tradmark. you can have talent, but if you dont know how to use it, its kind of a waste. I am not sure about your coach, I think you need a kick ass kind of coach as well. Cause thibs dont take no sh** from know one, including Rose. see ya, Hawks/bulls conference finals 2012!!!!
Rusty
May 14th, 2011
7:24 pm
The hawks were a better team under woody. Orlando was not the same team as before. JJ needs to go as he will always want to dominate the offense. Ld did not bring anything but dumbness to this team.
RM
May 14th, 2011
7:27 pm
Trade Josh while you can. Stuck with Joe , nobody will take that ridiculus contract. Crawford sabotaged this series b/c he didn’t have a new contract.
superiorblogman
May 14th, 2011
7:29 pm
MC:
You are okay with me but you are wrong as they come on your numbers. The Hawks have $64.268.493 million in reported salary going into next year. Where you are getting the extra $3 million from I have no idea. The Hawks paid out $70.927.923 million this year and did not go into luxury. That means the Hawks have about $6.5 million to spend going into next year before they hit the luxury if all things remained the same in the new CBA or got better. The current mid level exception is less than $6.5 million so the Hawks can be a player for a center such as
1 Dalembert
2 Oden
I think both of those guys are looking at mid level exceptions, but the Hawks can offer slightly more than the mid level exception. They could then split there mid level exception between 2 guys that are needed.
Lastly, let’s not get carried away with the Bulls there model is nothing special. Loul Deng’s contract looked bad a couple of years ago, Noah was a guy that did not get along with teammates in his first couple of years, they did not exactly nail it with draft picks like Tyrus Thomas or he would still be with them. The Bulls model is built around getting lucky with those ping pong balls. Derrick Rose makes Deng and Noah look better than what they are. He makes them forget about Tyrus Thomas as a lottery pick. They simply got lucky the guy has been in the league 3 years and already MVP, get serious, the only way we can follow that is if Teague has a MVP caliber season next year or we pull off a trade to get Derrick Williams and he is a bonafide superstar from the moment he steps on the court. It’s one thing to give the Bulls credit its another to blow them fully out of proportion.
Rusty
May 14th, 2011
7:30 pm
Tom when did you ever see Joe do anything but hold on to the ball. He doesn’t drive hard ever,did anyone ever see him finish a fast break unless he had no one on him. I am so over JJ,I don’t think we can have an NBA offense with him in the lineup & ld has hurt this team so many ways.
superiorblogman
May 14th, 2011
7:48 pm
superiorblogman
May 14th, 2011
7:29 pm
MC:
You are okay with me but you are wrong as they come on your numbers. The Hawks have $64.268.493 million in reported salary going into next year. Where you are getting the extra $3 million from I have no idea. The Hawks paid out $70.927.923 million this year and did not go into luxury. That means the Hawks have about $6.5 million to spend going into next year before they hit the luxury if all things remained the same in the new CBA or got better. The current mid level exception is less than $6.5 million so the Hawks can be a player for a center such as
1 Dalembert
2 Oden
I think both of those guys are looking at mid level exceptions, but the Hawks can offer slightly more than the mid level exception. They could then split there mid level exception between 2 guys that are needed.
Lastly, let’s not get carried away with the Bulls there model is nothing special. Loul Deng’s contract looked bad a couple of years ago, Noah was a guy that did not get along with teammates in his first couple of years, they did not exactly nail it with draft picks like Tyrus Thomas or he would still be with them. The Bulls model is built around getting lucky with those ping pong balls. Derrick Rose makes Deng and Noah look better than what they are. He makes them forget about Tyrus Thomas as a lottery pick. They simply got lucky the guy has been in the league 3 years and already MVP, get serious, the only way we can follow that is if Teague has a MVP caliber season next year or we pull off a trade to get Derrick Williams and he is a bonafide superstar from the moment he steps on the court. It’s one thing to give the Bulls credit its another to blow them fully out of proportion.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm
truhawkfan
May 14th, 2011
7:59 pm
I think that they should keep JJ,JT,Smoove,and Al everyone else can go unless they find away to keep JC and then all the rest can go.I really hope they don’t trade J-smoove cause that is a big hole to fill if they get rid of him. They need a center and a small foward cause what I saw JT held his own at the 1 spot and JJ is still one of the best shooting guards in the league if not he would not get so much attention.Smoove is a all around player on the floor cause he does so much on the floor blocks,steals,scores,rebounds,and a big man who dishes assists.Al is a knock down shooter from mid range and rebounds and come up with some assists and does a liittle dirty work.JC still the best 6th man to me and is a offesive threat when he gets it going only liability is defense but when scoring he can cover that up. IMO the line up should be
pg-JT
sg-JJ,JC
sf-?
pf-J-smoove
c-Al,Horford
then they can fill in the rest with good quality bench players and starting small foward all of whom are defensive minded with the ability to knock down open shots.
Sautee
May 14th, 2011
8:06 pm
Hatter,
“Sautee I wasnt aware that Al had move up in the coaches eyes from number 26 at the center position to number 19. Good job. LOL. I feel you. You are a loyal Al supporter even when ignoring facts and totally relying on opinions.”
I guess I’ll have to repost this, since you obviously missed it:
“Sautee, I can appreciate that. I have no desire to misrepresent the the truth. I wasnt aware that Al had move up in the coaches eyes from number 26 at the center position to number 19.”
Ha! No man, you either don’t get it or you are purposely being obtuse.
Al tied with Josh (and Artest) at #19 among ALL players in the league, not centers. According to the coaches, there were only 18 players better on defense this year than Al.
Let me say that again: According to the head coaches, only 18 players were more deserving of All-Defensive team votes than Al Horford. Get it now?
Among centers he finished 6th behind DHoward, T. Chandler, Noah (who was listed as forward / center), TDuncan, and Chuck Hayes. That’s it. Every other center in the league finished below Al, who had the same number of first team votes as Noah and Duncan.
Hatter, you can try all you want to dismiss this voting, but it wasn’t a panel of sportswriters, it was the Head Coaches of the league. Three of them thought Al should be first team All-Defense. Now I can’t say I saw THAT from Al, but again, I think the coaches know a helluva lot more about their own game than any fan including you and me. They obviously put a greater premium on position defense than they do on shot blocking. Obviously. Or else Ibaka, Perkins, Nene, Bynum and Bogut would have been ahead of Al.
But they were not. Sorry, man but the coaches’ Kool-Aid tastes better than yours. You may not like his defense but the coaches sure do.
Hatter, go ahead and try to make a story released by the league about the All-Defensive Team into “opinion” and not factual. Best of luck, there.
One other thing…aren’t you the same person who said all season long that Teague deserved his dnp-cds and belonged on the bench because he was, as you put it a “turnover machine”? My, my, how things can change. LMFAO!
Sautee
May 14th, 2011
8:25 pm
ken (poster from Chicago),
Thanks, man. Thanks for the politeness, too. Refreshing.
Y’all are fun to watch and I’d love nothing more than to see you sweep the Heat.
J Smoove
May 14th, 2011
8:35 pm
I like to take crazy jump shots that i know i cannot hit. it is what it is…
Marvin will be a 20ppg scorer
May 14th, 2011
8:37 pm
As you can see Marvin was around the 14ppg for 3 seasons in a row..so what changed the last 2 years?..JAMAL CRAWFORD..When he came, Marvin numbers went down, because Jamal is a volume shooter and he and joe jacked up a lot of shots…I can’t wait until Marvin leaves and come back to score 20 in the “highlight factory”!
‘05-’06 ATL 8.5
‘06-’07 ATL 13.1
‘07-’08 ATL 14.8
‘08-’09 ATL 13.9
‘09-’10 ATL 10.1
This year 10.4
Marvin will be a 20ppg scorer
May 14th, 2011
8:39 pm
WOW! Boy this fan base is horrible and know nothing about basketball
This was Marvin’s best year ‘07-’08 ATL 424-918 .462 ..Notice the good FG%..He was hurt in 08-09, but look at his attempts in ‘09-’10 ATL 302-664 .455 ..that’s 300 less shots…look at Jamal stats 09-10 ATL 496-1,105 0.410%..Marvin production only went down due to JAMAL jacking up more shots…Jamal jacked up over 1000 shots and everyone wonder why Marvin stats dropped!
RA
May 14th, 2011
8:52 pm
I know how they can get better. It’s something none of them will want to do. Restructure your contracts so that the team has more fiscal wiggle room. To a man most of the Hawks have said that the team needs to be upgraded. Don’t talk about it, be about it. Get with your agents, restructure your deals and go into next season with a team more like the Bulls have. Either that, or rely on the next Etan Thomas that the team can get ahold of at a bargain basement price.
Buddy Grizzard
May 14th, 2011
9:02 pm
Former USC running back Stafon Johnson dropped a weighted barbell on his throat and crushed his windpipe. But he didn’t die. So, following your logic, since it “didn’t kill him”, (like Ray said Drew “won’t kill this team”), Stafon endorses dropping a weighted barbell on your windpipe, right?
Well I was keeping it light and not looking for an argument but, if you insist…
Your Stafon argument is a strawman whereby you are equating my assertion with the absurd idea that an athlete “endorses” something that nearly killed him. Obviously my assertion that Big Ray “endorses” Larry Drew’s continuation as head coach of the Hawks is a (playful) exaggeration. If he was litterally “endorsing” Drew’s status as coach, he would say something like “I think Drew should remain as coach.”
What he does instead is break the bad news to Hawks fans that ownership is highly unlikely to fire Drew, subject themselves to a coaching search and eat the last year of his contract. While he does this, he offers the reassurance to the fan base that Drew’s continuation in the capacity of head coach “won’t kill the team.”
To me, this is the equivalent of saying, “Drew will remain as coach, but hey Hawks fans, it could be worse, at least they’re not firing Drew and hiring superiorblogman in his place.”
This reassurance from Big Ray rings so hollow to me, and is so unambitious, that I have decided to shoehorn Big Ray in with other media who have said Drew should remain in his position. Saying Drew won’t kill the Hawks is like saying, “Hey we’ll never win a championship with Drew as coach, but our mediocrity is in no immediate danger.”
dap01
May 14th, 2011
9:08 pm
Why was Al so soft this post season? That is disturbing.
However, I do agree with LD. I want a jump shooting, ISO team for the playoffs. I also want to demand perfection from rookies and let my power forward camp out at the 3 point line. I know basketball and the rest of the league can keep playing their way.
Offense wins, jumpshoots win.
Larry Drew
cdog
May 14th, 2011
9:15 pm
larry dew grew up as an NBA head coach this season. he should be brought back next year..next move should be to release rick sund as GM and bring in a GM like the falcons have in thomas dimitroff who only cares about winning a championship and not looking for excuses like the salary cap as sund usually does. he also wastes draft picks on players who will never suit up for the hawks or who can’t play in the CBA.the cap don’t stop the championship teams from getting the best players.sund is a poor excuse for a GM.he only holds the francise back.replacing him should be the first move then the next should be to bring Dwight howard home to the wks so we can start planning to play for the NBA title next year.sund is too stupid to be a GM in the NBA
Write right
May 14th, 2011
9:26 pm
This is probably a good piece Mr Cunningham wrote. However, I will not read any of his work until he addresses players and coaches by their names. What’s up with this Smoove, LD, JJ crap?
If he would focus more on his work, and less on trying to be hip, I would take him seriously as a writer.
Sautee
May 14th, 2011
9:26 pm
Hatter,
So now your former hero Mike Woodson is a “puppet coach”?
This gets funnier by the post.
And, BTW, didn’t you see my post to you where I said I had no idea how Al made All-NBA?
Most of our disagreements have come when you have made, let’s say, less than totally truthful accusations about Al Horford. And my repeated defense of him was much less out of ardor for his game, than feeling you were being unfair and and many times disingenuous with those false claims. Hence my defense. Which was more about “keeping it real” on the blog.
To me Horford is a solid player who is versatile enough to play at either the 4 or the 5. He’s not going to win a title for you by himself, by any stretch of the imagination. He has great intangibles, but unless he steps up his production next year, he’ll be another overpaid Hawk. This year, still on his rookie contract, he’s a bargain.
So let’s give up this fantasy of yours that I think Horford hung the moon. I like him a lot, but he is a solid player, not a superstar.
And rant on, if you like but try to keep it real.
Later, Hatter.
KevinM
May 14th, 2011
9:38 pm
303, I’ll take that bet with you re: Marvin. That is not the worse contract out there, (3/23M)but I bet there is very little we can get in return and it won’t be a contributor. It’ll end up being someone who also has a bad contract, a Mo Williams, who simply does nothing to better the team. Give me a timeline on that bet and let’s wager a leftover Bibster jersey from the Philips store…I am sure there are a few hanging around on sale.
Speaking of Bibster, did you see who Coach LeBron said would be defending DRose? Game 1 to the Bulls with that comment alone.
Mitch, you made one GREAT point about this past season….6-0 to start the year, and .500 the rest of the way..that includes the playoffs!
Truly, could that sound any less impressive and not a good enough reason to bring back LD? He, in fact, did worse than Woody overall.
He was handed and 50 win team, and won 50…meaning no improvement as a whole, and just as much to look forward to as we had last summer.
We aren’t going forward until we know the status of Sund and LD. It would be total shocker in my book if either was not here next year, unlike my bet with 303 about Marvin….
I didn’t spend a dime on tickets last year, and I don’t plan on spending 2 dimes on tickets this upcoming year…unless there is truly something done with a team who played .500 ball the bulk of the season.
As I said before, keep JT/Josh, both still very young. move 2 all-stars while you can…Al would look very good on a Dallas team or a New Jersey team who has a PG that is asking for help. That Jersey #1 might be worth striving for.
KevinM
May 14th, 2011
9:39 pm
Doh! New Jersey gave that pick to Utah…Sund gotta go get involved with Utah now.
KevinM
May 14th, 2011
9:42 pm
Joe Johnson in a Bulls uni? That is a solid starting 5. And Joe can be a #3 in that lineup.
Dub C
May 14th, 2011
9:43 pm
Sure, Al somewhat disappeared during this post season, but to call him ’soft’ or a guy who plays ‘no defense’ is just stupid. The people who are saying these things are some of the same people who just a few months ago were saying how he’s our only leader and he shows more leadership than anyone else on the team. Unreal.
Regarding moves this summer, Marvin must go, but he has little to no trade value. Josh Smith is our only valuable trade asset. Not sure what happens with Kirk or Jamal.
This will be an interesting summer!
beone
May 14th, 2011
9:45 pm
Neither Sund nor LD should not be retained. The home blowouts without repercussions from MGT cannot be ignored. First get a GM with something to prove (younger with ambition) and a HC with enough guts to ensure accountability of the players. Then find some players that have some backbone. I don’t care if they lose every game if they hustle, work hard and show improvement over time. The current Hawks fail on all three counts.
JeJe
May 14th, 2011
9:46 pm
LOL @ people wanting Gasol
We are already soft as hell (no hard fouls)
You people want to get SOFTER
FIRE LD
FIRE SUND
FIRE JAMAL
FIRE MARVIN
beone
May 14th, 2011
9:47 pm
Edit: Neither Sund nor LD should be retained.
Brandon
May 14th, 2011
9:47 pm
“But I noted the team’s lack of scoring at the rim and also their low free-throw rate and asked if that’s something that can only change with different personnel.”
In my opinion, this is definitely not a personnel issue. Rather, it’s a style issue. As I’ve said over and over again, the Hawks do not operate in an offensive system that makes the most of their talents, and the low-free throw rate is more evidence of that. Jeff, Jamal, Marvin, Josh, and Al are all quick and athletic enough that they should be able to get to the free throw line just as much as any players at their positions.
Marvin will be a 20ppg scorer
May 14th, 2011
9:57 pm
@Bad Dude you said “Good point about Marvinl”
All the people on here do is bash Marvin..Marvin is not a bust.He was a around 15ppg every year until his shots got cut in half due to Jamal, he could have easily did what Josh does, and jack up shots, but the guy plays team ball…..Now they are actually bashing Al!..How can you bash a guy who is 6ft8 and has had to play center his whole career?..And yes the guy is 6ft8, which makes him the smallest center in the NBA other than Chuck Hayes..So yes by the playoffs, after banging with guys 6ft 10 or better, he was going to be wore down…