Bulls at Atlanta Hawks Game 4: Larry Drew: ‘No time to experiment with limitations’
This is what it’s like to coach the Hawks sometimes. . .
L.D. looks at his computer screen, where Smoove’s shooting percentages by distance are displayed. He holds up a shooting chart of Josh’s misses and makes.
These are the tools L.D. uses to try to convince Josh to stop taking Js.
“I’ve had talks with him: ‘You can’t take those shots. You are not making them,’” he said. “When I talk to my players and I am making a point, I back it up with numbers and facts and video.”
It’s not just Josh.
Following Game 3, the theory among Atlanta’s bigs was that their help against D-Rose’s penetration contributed to Chicago’s 18 offensive rebounds. So L.D. showed his players video cut-ups of each of those rebounds and put them into categories.
“Whether it’s Rose involved, or whether a poor block out or bad rotation, or whether they just man-for-man went after that ball more than we did,” he said.
Drew said “not blocking out” won in a landslide.
“At the end of the game, we look at the stat sheet and say, ‘Eighteen offensive rebounds, we have got to do something differently if our coverages are putting us at a disadvantage.’” Drew said. “That was not the case. This is just about man-on-man. It’s my will against his will.”
And so it goes down the list, L.D. showing the Hawks how they can be better and the players seeming to get the message only sometimes.
“You hope as a coach [you have] a team that knows their strengths and knows their limitations,” Drew said. “A player that knows strengths tries to put himself in a position where he can be successful nine times out of 10. A player who has limitations, he is going to try to stay away from it as much as he can because he knows that is going to hurt himself and hurt the team. Here we are in playoff basketball; it is no time to experiment with your limitations now.”
The Hawks shared the ball in Game 1, their best offensive game of the series. But by Game 3 it was lots of dribbling by J.J., no ball movement, no player movement, poor shot selection.
“That’s the story of the whole year,” L.D. said. “We play together and play out of double teams one game, then we come back and try to beat the double teams ourselves the next game. That’s just inconsistency. We watch film and we show where we do move the ball out of a double team. And then we have games where we try to beat the double teams ourselves. We show that day, after day, after day, after day. It’s got to click in and they’ve got to see when we move the ball, it works. And when we move the ball, we become more effective. And when we move the ball, it puts the defense in a bind.”
I told L.D. his players sometimes seem more focused on the result than the process. In other words, if they share the ball and the shots go in then they have no problem keeping it up. If they share the ball and they don’t make shots–even if they creates some good ones–then it doesn’t take long before they abandon that approach and start going one-on-one.
“It’s not going to work all the time,” Drew said. “In sharing the basketball, success should not be predicated on our makes. It should be predicated on are we getting good shots or the shot that we want or if it’s a high percentage shots. As long as we get good looks, and it’s the right person shooting it, that’s successful offense.”
What about Al?
Al’s offensive struggles have caused great anxiety among my blog people. Some of you have implored me to “find out what’s going on with Al,” as if you don’t believe what you see so there must be some hidden reason to explain his ineffectiveness.
Seriously, though, I understand the angst. You may not like it when J.J. dribbles out possessions or Josh jacks up momentum-sapping Js but at least those are expected developments. But if the most reliable scorer on the team for most of the season can’t get it done, then all hope is lost.
In the comments yesterday I said that my view was a) the pick-and-pop hasn’t been there for Al b) he’s been stymied by Chicago’s physical D, led by Noah, when he tries to go inside and c) he’s been taking too long to make decisions with the ball (it got him, too).
Today L.D. gave his view on Al’s issues:
“I don’t think it’s as much they have taken [the jump shot] away as he is rushing his shot when he gets it. Down in the low post he has got to be more of a workhorse. They are matching Noah on him and Noah is a good defender and I think that is bothering him a little bit. They are playing him more physical where he is not getting to his spots. Even Gibson is matched up against him and we are not gaining an advantage. He has got to be more of a workhorse down low, he has got to look for his shot. He’s had some good looks, particularly the last game, last game he was really just rushing his shot. There were a couple he took it looked like they didn’t have a chance. He has got to be more in-tune, more in-focus, and work into getting into his shooting spot and shooting form faster. They are a good defensive team and they get to people quicker.”
Al said after Game 3 that the Bulls have taken away the pick-and-pops and he’d like to get more post-ups. So today I asked him if he still thinks that’s the answer.
“At this point I am really going to focus more on my defense and rebounding,” he said. “If I get the post-ups that’s great but I think I have to keep impacting the team on the defense end and rebounding in order to make a difference.”
Al has had some success by quickly driving the ball when Noah runs hard at him to deny the pick-and-pop. Al said that’s one option to counter it.
“I just have to make adjustments as a player,” he said. “Whether it is giving an extra pass to my teammates or rolling instead of popping—just something different.”
‘Trust each other’
L.D. also had more to say about what Joe needs to do to get on track:
“First of all, you have got to really study film. Look and see what they are trying to take away from you. Look and see from a team defensive standpoint what they are trying to do to you. Obviously with him on the side they are crowding him and bringing an extra guy over–what we saw against Orlando, basically. They are playing him a little bit more aggressive on the ball, but as far as bringing another guy over it’s the same thing [the Magic] did with Dwight and we combated that by not just pounding the ball but swinging it quick and getting it to the other side and attack it. A lot of his attacks have to be from the middle of the floor, we will put more focus on that moving forward. But the one thing you can’t do is pound, and pound, and pound the ball and try to shoot it over double teams because you are playing into their hands. We have got to have the same trust in this series as we had in the Orlando series. We played out of double teams, we got the ball moved, we went into the second phase of our offense. We’ve got to trust in one another. We have definitely got to get the ball moved. Especially in this series because Chicago, on paper, is a better defensive team. Against a team that loads up on the first side, they are rangy, athletic, strong, you can’t hold the ball on one side and try to pound it.”
Notes
- L.D. said he’s considering going with a “big” lineup that includes Twin or Zaza.
- UPDATE: It’s the Twin lineup. Drew’s reasoning: “It gives us a different look. It also helps us on the glass. They had 18 offensive rebounds the last game and the fact we did have some success with that lineup vs. Orlando, our guys are familiar with it. I think it’s time for change. We’ve made the decision to go with a bigger lineup and defensively we will tweak some things.”
- Twin will have to check Noah, who presents a different dilemma than Dwight. “It will be a challenge for him,” L.D. said. “Noah is an energy guy that moves around a lot in the paint area. But I have all the confidence in the world that Jason has the ability to keep him off the glass. Jason certainly took the challenge against Dwight, understanding that Dwight is a little more sataionary than Noah, but I’m confident Jason can get the job done.”
- The Bulls beat writers told me Thibodeau likely will crossmatch Noah against Al and give Twin to Boozer. Maybe Twin can post him up.
- The Hawks have changed up their coverages for D-Rose. “We made some adjustments,” Jamal said. “I am sure you guys will be able to see tonight.”
- Jamal on Atlanta’s plan to be more physical with Rose: “That’s for everybody. It’s the playoffs. We are not getting easy baskets so they shouldn’t, either.”
- Boozer has torn ligaments in his big toe.
- L.D. on the delicate nature of being critical of star players during meetings: “Real pros look it in the eye and say, ‘Coach, you know what, you are right.’ They will say, ‘I have got to do this better, I have go to do that better.’ I am always open to suggestions from any of my players if there is something they would rather do. Sometimes as coaches we can make suggestions and a player says. ‘Let’s come back and try this way.’ I am good with that.”
- Thibodeau on Teague successfully stepping in for Hinrich: “He’s a good player. He can score the ball and he’s done a good job defensively. It says a lot about him. It shows he’s stayed ready. He’s gotten his opportunity and he’s playing well.”
- Thibodeau on the Hawks: “They are a tough team. They are hard to guard. They have a lot of weapons. We understand we have to play well but we are not changing what we do.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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917 comments Add your comment
Slim
May 8th, 2011
6:20 pm
@dukester
I’m saying Josh Smith is not in position to block shots because he is playing the wrong position!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnIH5EaqQWA
0:26 look at Joakim look at Josh Smith. WTH is LD looking at? that’s why we can’t rebound 2 small!
0:26 Josh is near the basket so he doesn’t penetrate
0:37 Rose wants to get to the rim but Josh is near there. So he calls Gibson/Josh up gets into the lane and dunk.
Notice where Deng is at the top of the key with Joe. that is supposed to be Josh not Joe who said he never played small forward up to 2 months ago.
0:51 unathletic Marvin gets burned
1:00 we are behind so Josh is still in. 6′10 Gibson just flips the ball over 6′8 Josh Marvin misses rotation
1:44 Rose penetrates and Joakim easily seals the small Josh off and he can’t contest. Marvin is too slow to help and recover so he just watches. That is what I’m talking about.
Had that been Collins on Noah and Josh on Deng, Smith would have either forced Rose to pass the ball or Rose would have gotten it blocked. He has to see another defender coming.
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
6:24 pm
But Najeh . . we don’t shoot shots near the rim though. Our bigs love to shoot jumpers. So while what you say may be correct, the bigs don’t ( or can’t ) do it.
So we simply have to play to what may be our strengths. And our strengths during these playoffs have been JJ and Jamal trying to score the basketball. Instead of Drew saying that JJ needs to continue to move the ball, how about him devising plays to get he and Jamal the ball before a double team materialize?
Like I said, what good is ball movement, if guys who haven’t made perimeter shots, continue to take them, instead of our main scorers? I’d much rather see a contested off the dribble 20 footer from Jamal, than a wide open 20 footer by Smith.
truthspitter
May 8th, 2011
6:25 pm
Michael Cunningham
May 8th, 2011
4:41 pm
@ Not a bad pick: “@MC Why do the regular posters on here continue to think that AL is 6ft10?..”
because that’s their opinion. didn’t he measure at like 6-9 3/4 at the draft combine?
Yeah, and that was in shoes, but truly Al is bigger for a C than Barkley was for PF. Al does not have the heart to be a championship level C, that’s the truth of the matter. He needs to be the bully physically because his game is so under-developed.
Jason Terry
May 8th, 2011
6:30 pm
The way you judge a coach is simple. Have the players gotten better this year compared to before. Answer that and you will have your answer about LD. Jury is still out if you ask me. I know last year you averaged 101.7 ppg last yr and 95.5 ppg this yr. LD sure didn’t make the better but worst.
Brandon
May 8th, 2011
6:33 pm
“I see now what others have said about LD all season. He places all of the blame on the players, while not placing some of the blame on himself, for the situations we find ourselves in. His offense is the one that encouraged Josh to jack up those jumpers. His offense is the one that turned Horford from a guy trying to develop his post game, to a guy who has been a deadly midrange shooter ( at the expense of continuing to develop that post game ). His offense is the one that let’s Jamal go one on one . . and puts JJ in the position so that he has to pound, pound, pound, since he essentially plays the point for us.”
Excellent point, northcyde. This is exactly the way I’ve felt about L.D. all season long. I know a lot of people place a large part of the blame for our mistakes on the players, but while the players are definitely flawed to some extent, I, honestly, think that L.D.’s scheme has accentuated and even created some of those flaws.
At this point, I basically have just accepted that L.D. is never going to hold himself accountable, and while it’s disappointing, that just seems to be the way it is. This, along with the points that you mentioned in your post above, are the main reasons that regardless of what happens with the Hawks in this post-season, I want to see Drew replaced as a head coach. I’m not saying that he is incapable of coaching or that he is a bad coach for a rookie, but I just don’t think he’s the right guy for the Hawks, and I think that he is just too flawed to coach a team with issues and mental makeup that the Hawks have. To really see what this team’s ceiling is with the current personnel, I really think that we need a better leader on the sidelines. With that being said, I’d also like to see some roster adjustments, but to really progress to the next level, I think this team needs a real coach, first and foremost.
Ant banks
May 8th, 2011
6:34 pm
Rotflmfao at JEJE 5:47 post.
ottoman
May 8th, 2011
6:40 pm
DONT SHOOT J SMOOTH!!!! RIP DOWN F%$@#N REBOUNDS AND DONT LET ANYBODY IN THE PAINT>>>> JOE JOHNSON NEEDS TO TRADE SALARIES WITH JAMAL CRAWFORD.
drmaryb (*_-)
May 8th, 2011
6:43 pm
My Mamma Used to Say!
“And then we have games where we try to beat the double teams ourselves. We show that day, after day, after day, after day. It’s got to click in and they’ve got to see when we move the ball, it works. And when we move the ball, we become more effective. And when we move the ball, it puts the defense in a bind.” – Drew -
___________________
My Mamma used to say, “If I tell you once, you didn’t know.
If I tell you twice, you were not listening. If I tell you three times,
You are stupid.” – Myrtle James B. – RIP
dukester
May 8th, 2011
6:47 pm
@slim. I love Josh’s shot blocking skills but you can not rely on that. Even if he played PF. The problem with this team is they are playing under Billy Knights and Mike Woodson dream of a bunch of 6′ 9″ players like they did in Detroit some years ago. Every move we have made was to bring in those types of players starting with Joe, drafting of Marvin,Al and Josh. I am not knocking those decisions except of course marvin. Problem is Knight and Woodson are gone. I told you guys 2 years ago we were doomed if Sund didnt change that philosphy. We resigned Marvin Bibby and Zaza to a whopping 60 million in contracts.
Magic Johnson
May 8th, 2011
6:48 pm
“Being able to play Josh Smith at SF and Horford at his natural PF position are huge advantages for Atlanta, and that is before you include having both Jamal Crawford and Marvin Williams available off the bench.
Though Atlanta may not be one of the flashiest teams in the east, it looks like they have solved their biggest matchup problem. Unlike previous years, they will not roll-over in the playoffs and it looks like Jason Collins may be the reason why.”
Slim
May 8th, 2011
6:53 pm
@dukester
“I love Josh’s shot blocking skills but you can not rely on that.”
Tell that to Larry Drew! He is falling for that “just jump higher” stereotype. We actually went from having a 6′8, 7′0, 6′9.75 front line to played a 6′8 guy against the #1 rebounding team in the league’s center.
Can you believe that? With all the fail this lineup has accumulated I think its a conspiracy.
I mean how can you cannot be that blind to the defensive shift benching Marvin created.
I’m honestly hoping Drew is just trying to trick the Bulls coaching staff and we go big.
Blast
May 8th, 2011
6:54 pm
Drew is not the biggest problem. The players are. Drew’s biggest fault is still starting Marvin in this series. Marvin is useless. After him, Josh has been horrible these last two games closely followed by Joe and Jamal. Chicago is playing harder, and Hawks are wilting under the pressure. That’s all it is.
We’ve all seen Hawks move the ball, move players, move the defence, and win. Game 2 and 3, Hawks played selfishly, which had a negative effect on their defence, consequently causing two losses. Josh jacking up missed jumpers after jumpers, Joe pounding the ball and trying to bully his way through two defenders. Marvin fumbling and bumbling on his clumsy drives, putting up weak layups, and missing open shots. Al was the invincible man. Only Teague played well.
And Joe says he is still gonna force the issue? That’s what you’ve been doing, dude! And in case you haven’t found out, IT’S NOT WORKING!!!!!!
Did I mention defensive rebounding?
I guess Hawks are just satisfied with finally winning a game in round two.
NagoyaHawk
May 8th, 2011
6:55 pm
Bulls know the Hawks are a cake walk. Let’s hope they get too confident.
Blast
May 8th, 2011
6:56 pm
Only good thing is that at least Hawks won’t get swept in this series. LA might be the only team that is swept out of the playoffs. Not a good way to go out, Phil, Kobe and co.
Magic Johnson
May 8th, 2011
6:57 pm
Hey guys when the game begins who is willing to chart the number of times:
A) 6′11 Joakim Noah yanks Josh by the arm out of the way and tips the ball out
B) Marvin gets caught on Joakim
C) the number of times Rose plays pick and roll and gets the dunk because we play small and he is dragging Josh out of the paint.
I hope the Hawks learn to play the right way one day. I don’t know maybe the players did not like the lineup.
@MC
do the players ever speak up about lineup changes. I know it might rub Mr. Williams the wrong way but has it ever come up?
Do the players recognize the advantages?
Do they not trust each other to play up a spot, namely Josh and/or Al to play “big”?
or is it everyone just wants to play and no one wants to push Marvin out of the “regular” lineup?
Michael Cunningham
May 8th, 2011
7:00 pm
blog updates with L.D. going with the Twin lineup.
Magic Johnson
May 8th, 2011
7:02 pm
@MC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k
O.O don’t play with the fans’ emotions
Blast
May 8th, 2011
7:02 pm
In the NBA, Hawks are the only team that doesn’t deliver hard fouls, and allow guards to just waltz to the rim and get a dunk or layup. When Hawks do come with their weak fouls, it’s usually and 1 fouls.
Slimjr
May 8th, 2011
7:17 pm
Enter your comments here
truthspitter
May 8th, 2011
7:18 pm
Michael Cunningham
May 8th, 2011
7:00 pm
blog updates with L.D. going with the Twin lineup.
Watch we win.Should not have taken 3 games for LD to figure this out but I will take it. Should have never went away from the big lineup in the first place. What is the worse thing that can happen, Deng murders Josh on the perimeter, who cares? Atleast that gets the ball out of Rose hands. LD, you big dummie (Fred Sanford)
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
7:19 pm
I don’t care what anyone says about Joe, good or bad. He needs to f’ing destroy whoever is guarding him and quit whining and playing at this lethargic pace.
He is the 2nd best player in this series and needs to damn-well start acting like it
Slimjr
May 8th, 2011
7:19 pm
I have decided to keep my trap shut till after the game…
Enjoy I hope………………………….Go Hawks………..Go Big,Strap on your goggles and cups and destroy the rim and repaint the paint area!!!!!!!!!
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
7:26 pm
LD’s comments in this blog do not impress me. I think we can win tonight but we better not get down 8 points early. If we are down by more than 5 after the first quarter, this game is over.
As SVG said, we do not play well when down
TheAntiMe
May 8th, 2011
7:32 pm
There are many technical reasons why this series has played out the way it has but it really all comes down to this: These Hawks are a freaking Road Runner cartoon. If they get up by 10 or more points early, then they will most likely play the part of the Road Runner and wind up ahead of their nemesis when the show is over.
On the other hand, if the Hawks find themselves down by 10 or more points early, they will then, almost surely, revert to reprising their role as Wile E. Coyote as he goes straight over the cliff, never to be seen again until the next episode.
Go Hawks and go early!!!!!! Beep, Beep!!!!!
Sleepy
May 8th, 2011
7:35 pm
We shouldve never started Marvin in the first place . We essentially gave our team a identity in the first series that was very successful and then dropped it against the Bulls just so we can start Marvin who has never lived up to any expectations placed on him .
What possessed him to do it in the first place ?
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
7:37 pm
So Collins is the starter. OK . .
Now Mr. Horford, Drew just told you to secure most of the defensive rebounds that go up. According to what people say, Collins should be blocking out Noah, preventing him from getting to offensive rebounds. At that point, it’s up to you to limit the number of offensive rebounds that they get.
So the thing to track tonight is how many offensive rebounds do the Bulls get off of missed shots with Collins in the game, as opposed to when he is out of the game.
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
7:39 pm
And how many offensive rebounds does Collins get, despite him blocking out Noah, or whomever he blocks out? We will see.
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
7:39 pm
Amen @ northcyde
Stop letting the turf toe cripple destroy us on the glass
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
7:43 pm
For your viewing pleasure . . . the epic Nique vs Bird battle in the 1988 playoffs. What a great game this was. Nique is the Godfather of the ISO in Atlanta.
Instead of listening to Kenny and Charles babble, I’ll watch this for the next 9 minutes.
Booo!
May 8th, 2011
7:47 pm
Thank you northcyde! I was watching NBATV instead of Hearing Chuck and Kenny (I like hearing from C-webb though)
i_am_soulstar
May 8th, 2011
7:51 pm
When/If Joe and Josh stop trying to coach, the Hawks will win.
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
7:52 pm
With the big lineup tonight, we will finally see some hard fouls. Collins and Z will get physical out there.
Must-win tonight
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
7:53 pm
i’m ready TO SEE SOME PHYSICALITY.
SOME ALTERCATIONS
TECHNICAL FOULS
FLAGRANT FOULS
WHERE IS THE DAMN HEART AND TENACITY AND PASSION OF THIS TEAM?
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
7:54 pm
Can’t tell if those were the toilet rags on the seats or the itchy transparent t-shirts
Anyone know?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2011
7:55 pm
“But Najeh . . we don’t shoot shots near the rim though. Our bigs love to shoot jumpers. So while what you say may be correct, the bigs don’t ( or can’t ) do it.”
Well, they obviously can. They just choose not to. Just like Joe could be aggressive all the time, but he just chooses not to.
And I think if the Hawks executed the game plan LD has in his head, Smoove and Al would be getting shots near the rim. This is why I think LD’s problem as a coach comes down to motivating his players, not coming up with schemes.
tremaine
May 8th, 2011
7:55 pm
Finally LD going with the big lineup. Marvin has been useless going up against Deng. I think Al will have a good game tonight at PF.
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
7:56 pm
Referring to the 1988 battle . . . wow @ the field goal percentage that they flash in the 4th quarter of that game with about 6 minutes left. We were shooting 82% . . Boston 77%
Just an unbelievable game that was. I remember that game vividly because it took place the day after my b-day. Two superstars going at it. And mainly by just knocking down midrange jumpers. Now people claim that it’s the worst shot in basketball.
No . . it’s just that people can’t make that shot anymore, because they’re jacking up too many 3s. Guys back in the 80s routinely made around 45% – 50% of their midrange jumpers. Nowadays, 40% is average and 45% is damn near great. The midrange jumper is a lost artform in todays NBA.
Sautee
May 8th, 2011
7:58 pm
JeJe,
As long suffering as the Hawks fans have been, maybe they should have given out hair shirts, lol.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2011
8:00 pm
JeJe, it’s toilet rags again.
As I expected, this place is pretty dead right now. Doesn’t seem like as many Bulls jerseys as Friday though, which is a good thing.
bigdave
May 8th, 2011
8:05 pm
LETS GET IT!!!!!
BE SPECIAL…
Sautee
May 8th, 2011
8:06 pm
Game time. bigdave, where you at?
Willy
May 8th, 2011
8:06 pm
How did LD get to the point where he needs videos, percentages etc. to “convince” Josh to play the right way? Sund needs to adress this foolishness.
Brandon
May 8th, 2011
8:08 pm
With Josh at the 3, expect the bricks to rain down tonight. Here’s to hoping that that isn’t the case, but when you put Josh at the 3, it’s kind of tough for him not to get baited into jump shots. After all, the SF position is primarily a wing position, and to “space the floor”, Josh will likely be outside of the 3 point line a lot during this game. I just hope that he makes the right decisions with the ball and takes advantage of his matchup inside with Deng. He should be able to overpower Deng big time in this matchup.
bigdave
May 8th, 2011
8:09 pm
Sautee..
was @ game fri..
$900 spent on alter ego hawks… haven’t had much to say. guys simply have to step up and show some pride.
this game is all about effort.
back on post tonight.. full stomach and Remy.. hopefully guys get right. its now or never.
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
8:09 pm
Kerr’s 3 points
- JJ and Jamal must get going
- Keep Rose out of the paint
- Rebound
Totally agree with Mr. Kerr.
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
8:10 pm
It appears Joakim Noah has overtaken Horford as the best center in the East.
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
8:10 pm
Hopefully we’ll see the playmaking version of Smith tonight. He’s capable of being a very good passer in the halfcourt set. So if he plays the 3 tonight, I want him to gather up the assists.
Here we go.
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
8:10 pm
JeJe’s keys to the game:
1) Rebound
2) 45+ for Joe/Jamal
3) Commit hard fouls
JeJe
May 8th, 2011
8:11 pm
Joey Crawford is officiating. I can see this game getting ugly
northcyde
May 8th, 2011
8:11 pm
Quick shot by JJ . . . didn’t even hesitate.
That’s “forcing the issue”