Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 88, Celtics 83
- The Hawks were down 60-49. They couldn’t score. J.J. dribbled out a possession and missed a forced 3-pointer over Rondo.
- This is where you figured the Hawks would fold. That’s been there M.O. for over a month now. You could sense Hawks fans at Philips bracing for the inevitable.
- Instead, the Hawks kept competing. They got stops. They rebounded. They earned free throws. They came back to beat a tough team with a tough effort.
- “Third quarter it could have gone either way,” Al said. “Guys really stayed together, we took it a play at a time and we didn’t get discouraged. Instead of hanging our heads we focused more on defense. That’s a good sign. We are starting to figure it out.”
- That’s two games in a row where the Hawks found it tough to score against opponents who play good D but managed to stick it out for a W. For all the fretting about the offense, could it be that the Hawks are finally developing a defensive identity that will allow them to win even when it’s not pretty?
- That’s what Al has been looking for all year: “I’m actually happy. In the past I haven’t felt like that. Guys are really buying into defense. Even though struggled defensively, we found a way.”
- “We had to grind it out,” Smoove said. “Boston is a hell of a defensive team and they made us work hard for every shot we took. We answered the bell and guys really stepped up and I’m just really proud of my teammates. Even thought shots were not falling we are playing stingy on the defensive end. We are not scoring, they are not scoring. That’s what we need to do with get consistent wins.”
- Where has that been?
- “We learned,” Zaza said. “Maybe it was late, but it always good to figure out something.”
- L.D. might have discovered that Zaza needs to play big minutes when the Hawks need the physical presence he’s always talking about and regulars can take a seat when they aren’t getting it done.
- “Zaza was playing super, super well,” L.D. said. “I was not going to take him out of the game. He was doing a great job. He was a presence in there, he was rebounding, he was going after loose balls. He was doing a lot of big man things. We got into a rhythm when he came into a game and I did not want to break that rhythm.”
- Zaza thrashed the C’s on the boards, D’d up old nemesis KG and got to the free-throw line by way of aggression. The Hawks can use all of that.
- “I thought Zaza Pachulia was the toughest dude on the floor and changed the whole game,” Doc Rivers said. “He was banging everybody, getting offensive rebounds, and I thought that was a great move by them.”
- Smoove was offering little beyond missed jump shots and lax D so he sat while Zaza played.
- “We was rolling,” Josh said. “Zaza was playing his ass off. You have got to reward a man by putting your trust in him so that’s what I did. I was one of the biggest cheerleaders over there. Individual accolades don’t mean anything as long as we win as a team and play consistently that’s all that matters.”
- There’s something about the Celtics at Philips that turns Zaza into a wrecking machine.
- “Maybe he needs to visualize everybody in a Celtics uniform,” Smoove said. “Like ‘Waterboy,’ make an illusion like he ses KG and Paul Pierce.”
- “They can be very arrogant sometimes,” Al said. “I think they have come at ‘Z’ the wrong way and it’s fired him up. ‘Z’ is not going to back down from anyone. For some reason they think they can come at him. ‘Z’ is a good player and I am very proud that he came out and showed what he can do.”
- “I don’t hate them,” Zaza said. “I just like to play them. It goes back to playoffs, not only for me, but also for the fans.”
- They went crazy when Zaza did damage, finally drowning out all the Celtics supporters.
- “He plays with so much fire,” Jamal said. “He’s one of the few players who gets the fans into it. They love him.”
- They loved Jamal tonight, too. He was the only consistent thing the Hawks had going offensively and the only guy attacking the basket for long stretches. He scored 12 straight points to keep the Hawks afloat in the second quarter.
- “We set some screens for him and he was exploding off the screens,” L.D. said. “He’s Jamal he’s going to dance with it a little bit for the most part I thought he came off the screen-and-rolls and really came off and separated from the screens. That’s how he has to be.”
- Jamal also helped spark the rally in the second half with his rebounding and playmaking. He did both on one key play, rebounding a miss and quickly finding Zaza for a layup that gave the Hawks a 71-69 lead.
- The Celtics scored 16 points in the third quarter and 15 in the fourth.
- “Clearly our defense was the staple tonight,” L.D. said. “When you stay within striking distance at home, all you are looking for is to get on a little of a roll, a little run and gain some momentum. We did that when and Jamal came in the game and energized us when we were flat.”
- The jump shots weren’t falling so the Hawks found other ways to score when things got tight (or at least they did after a few unfortunate renditions of Iso-Joe). In the fourth quarter, they got to the free-throw line and made 11 of 13 attempts and hit the offensive glass for 10 second-chance points.
- “If you are a great defensive team, you can never allow that many points in the fourth quarter,” Doc said.
- Joe was in foul trouble early and then missed 13 shots in a row at one point. He kept pressing for a while but then started darting to the rim and drawing fouls. He made 5 of 5 free-throw attempts in the fourth.
- “I made a conscience effort in second half to put the ball in Joe’s hand as much as we could,” Drew said. “I thought the guys responded to that.”
- Maybe, but I saw the ball stop with Joe and the offense stangante. Playing that way makes it too easy for a great defensive team like the Celtics.
- The Celtics can be taken on the boards. The Hawks did it, collecting 38 of their 41 misses, including 11 of 12 in the fourth quarter.
- The Celtics made it tough for Al to get position and challenged his jump shots early. He got loose for 10 points on eight shots after halftime and also had seven of his 12 defensive boards.
- L.D. still wasn’t ready to say the Hawks have figured things out.
- “Not yet. I like what I am seeing, especially getting two quality wins against two quality opponents. I’ve been waiting for this type of effort. I see signs but I’m not going to go out on a limb right now and say we are there. There are six games left and try to get as many wins as we can and, more importantly, get a rhythm and some momentum going into the playoffs.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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247 comments Add your comment
doc
April 2nd, 2011
6:04 pm
most important trend right now is keeping teams below 90 points with 12 wins in 14 since feb 1 using that criteria. only one own loss when keeping a team below that number when they blew the lead against the cats. the hawks are NOT going to outscore anyone on a consistent basis. the offense is not as important as the defensive effort. keep talking all you guys want it will ultimately be how they defend and rebound. oops,isnt that woody ball and what other teams preach?
as an example the heat still havent gotten it as they have potential to be great on defense but their collective egos wont allow it. it might be their donfall. they also are limited by a lack of size to the point they are considering eddie curry, that is desperation. well maybe they ought to place a call in to rand mo as well.
najeh responded several times on your comments on mb blog. gist is someone will have to crash and do it, if it has to be zaza because josh wont give that kind of effort and stop throwing up ill timed bombs unlike the ones where he gets the hot potato from a guard at the last minute then zaza will have to get us offensive rebounds. it is truly what has been lacking in the offense that ld established that put the emphasis on having three to four guys at the arc as someone shoots. no chance at getting a miss and we have done it poorly as a team by ill design of personnel. at least if and when jj actually drives to the basket and doesnt get fouled if he goes hard at it then we at least have bodies moving towards the basket.
nice game last night and one executed differently than the previous night which also is a positive.
Grandad
April 2nd, 2011
6:05 pm
Observations from a different perspective;
Negatives:
(1) so called motion;
*lacks proper spacing
*at least one *player is lost at all times
**[Marvin,Josh, Joe, in particular]
*players colliding with one another
*lacks cohesion
note:: when motion starts and ball comes to Joe,
all movement stops.
(2) Zero and I really mean zero offensive rebounding,
other than Zaza.
(literally nobody goes to the off glass)
Positives:
(1) Zaza Pachulia:: tough, hard nosed, rugged, hustles, enforcer !!!!!
(2) Cap’n Kirk:: does alot of little “dirty work” that doesn’t show up in box-score.
(3) Al:: *needs to increase his shot attempts by at least 50%.
**[I believe this to be a coaching decision]
(4) Defense is not too shabby.
*** side-note:::Hinrich was in Josh’s face all night.
Josh was talkin’ back, Hinrich was not backin down.
Once during a TO teammates stepped in between.
Cap’n Kirk has the nuggets to lead.
[now I'm ready for some ass biscuit to come on here and play the race card]
mykhalc
April 2nd, 2011
6:08 pm
as Dimitroff would say…’we need explosive players’!!! we really have none except JC. and in the case of the Hawks, we need explosive and SMART players. another blogger posted that Al was as slow as Joe with his offense. and that ain’t nothin’ but the truth. watchin’ any of these cats with the ball in their hands is painful…PERIOD!!! watchin’ this team tryin’ to run an offensive set is even WORSE!!!
doc
April 2nd, 2011
6:20 pm
bibby colluded the, “oh well, some games you dont have it” attitude that josh mirroed and echoed. the way kirk works he will not accept it. i didnt see the action on the bench as my seats are at the other end but it seems josh didnt get it and sat it out. again as soon as he becomes j smash then he becomes and all star force.
gd agree there is no effective player movement in the ld offense yet. maybe it grinds down to nothing with isojoe when he has it but what i hate worst is the passes around the perimeter between five guys that then settle for an outside “open” shot without any effective personnel near the basket to rebound. i would rather see iso-joe if it means he goes to the basket hard like a kobe to draw fouls otherwise it is a dead stalemate to ultimately mean a loss.
doc
April 2nd, 2011
6:20 pm
bibby colluded the, “oh well, some games you dont have it” attitude that josh mirroed and echoed. the way kirk works he will not accept it. i didnt see the action on the bench as my seats are at the other end but it seems josh didnt get it and sat it out. again as soon as he becomes j smash then he becomes and all star force.
gd agree there is no effective player movement in the ld offense yet. maybe it grinds down to nothing with isojoe when he has it but what i hate worst is the passes around the perimeter between five guys that then settle for an outside “open” shot without any effective personnel near the basket to rebound. i would rather see iso-joe if it means he goes to the basket hard like a kobe to draw fouls otherwise it is a dead stalemate to ultimately mean a loss.
O'Brien
April 2nd, 2011
6:42 pm
Northcyde,
The Hawks are 11 – 6 when JJ attempts 20+ shots. That’s a .647 winning percentage. Extrapolate that to 82 games . . and you get 53 wins.
So like I said . . is this an anomaly, or is there something to this? .
Look closer. The 11 wins are:
Wizards, Cleveland, Clippers (twice), Toronto (twice), Sacramento, Miami, Knicks, Chicago, and Boston.
The 6 losses: Phoenix , OKC (twice), Houston, Dallas, Denver.
Against teams under .500, we are 7-1 when JJ takes 20 or more shots. If the opponent is .500 or better, and JJ takes 20 shots or more, our record is 4-5. That is a 44% win percentage against good teams. Extrapolate that to 82 games (if every team was over .500), and you get 36 wins.
So how successful will it be in the playoffs against a team thats above .500?
doc
April 2nd, 2011
6:44 pm
interesting at least three posts refused on bradley blog and a repeat goes up here.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
6:56 pm
“the hawks are NOT going to outscore anyone on a consistent basis. the offense is not as important as the defensive effort. keep talking all you guys want it will ultimately be how they defend and rebound. oops,isnt that woody ball and what other teams preach? ”
Why can’t both be equally important? Why can’t the Hawks come with a grind it out defensive effort AND share the ball and get good shots on every possession? This is after all what good teams do…
“i would rather see iso-joe if it means he goes to the basket hard like a kobe to draw fouls otherwise it is a dead stalemate to ultimately mean a loss.”
Asking Joe to go to the basket hard is like asking Smoove to stop taking jumpers, as far as I’m concerned. Both are about equally likely to happen on a consistent basis.
clancy
April 2nd, 2011
7:38 pm
So it seems rather as if some of the folks on here are hoping Jordan lights the Hawks up so they can be right? How odd -
doc
April 2nd, 2011
7:50 pm
najeh, by now i have given up on the concept of sharing the ball because to this team that means passing it around the horn/arc and taking an open shot with ten seconds left on the shot clock because they are open which lately means it goes in less than 40% of the time. we also see no bodies underneath to try and recollect it because they are having so much fun singing kumbaya on the perimeter “sharing”. what i dont see is movement of bodies as they share the ball.
the only way they seem to get bodies moving into rebounding position is when jamal or jj begin to penetrate. if they continue to share like that without movement we are going to see more blow out games because the one and done possessions when the team goes collectively cold is destroying this team. i am sure you have had the same sinking feeling of uh oh this is going to be a long night as they continue to pump away and run back to defend against transition baskets.
sorry, we cant win “sharing” the ball as we dont have sharp shooters to nail it night in and night out. not many teams do either and we arent going to move and change that this late in the season. yes. i would like to think we could i just dont see it happening so smash mouth it will have to be.
doc
April 2nd, 2011
7:59 pm
better get him some stilts then.
drmaryb (*_-)
April 2nd, 2011
8:04 pm
Suited and Booted!
“Dominique Wilkens pieced up ol buddy we have followed suit.”
- unknown blogger -
_____________
Did he say, “SUIT”?
(Sorry NO refunds or returns without receipt)
____________________
-wink wink-
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
8:48 pm
The Hawks are undefeated when Dominique Wilkins beats the sh-t out of someone after the game.
ant banks
April 2nd, 2011
8:52 pm
NAJEH,
you were spot on with your 12:52 a.m. post. this was a very unimpressive win. the hawks won cause the celts were not their regular selves.
ant banks
April 2nd, 2011
8:52 pm
NAJEH,
you were spot on with your 12:52 a.m. post. this was a very unimpressive win. the hawks won cause the celts were not their regular selves.
northcyde
April 2nd, 2011
8:57 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
5:37 pm
“The Hawks are 11 – 6 when JJ attempts 20+ shots. That’s a .647 winning percentage. Extrapolate that to 82 games . . and you get 53 wins.
So like I said . . is this an anomaly, or is there something to this?”
They are also 6-4 without Joe Johnson. Stats only mean whatever you want them to mean.
We have plenty of evidence to suggest this team cannot win in the playoffs if they run the offense through Joe. That was the whole reason for opening up the offense in the first place. Running the offense through Smoove and Al doesn’t mean they have to take perimeter shots.
******************
So would that discount the truth you post about Teague playing 20 minutes a game, and how the team has played when he gets those minutes? I mean, even that stat you post about Teague, isn’t somewhere brought out of the blue.
Running the offense through Smoove or Al means that eventually, those guys are going to have to create their own shot, when teams play everybody else straight up. I actually have more confidence in Smith to score in that situation, than Horford.
I would have no problem running the offense through them if one of them had a decent low post game. That would be the ideal scenario for this team, seeing that we don’t have ( or let ) the PG run the show.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
9:03 pm
“So would that discount the truth you post about Teague playing 20 minutes a game, and how the team has played when he gets those minutes? I mean, even that stat you post about Teague, isn’t somewhere brought out of the blue.”
Like I was telling Astro Joe a few days ago, the point of the Teague updates is not to make him out to be some sort of secret weapon who is a catalyst behind the Hawks winning (although I am not ruling out that possibility). The point of that post is to disprove the notion that Teague is some developmental project who cannot be given a steady role and meaningful minutes without sacrificing wins.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
9:15 pm
“Running the offense through Smoove or Al means that eventually, those guys are going to have to create their own shot, when teams play everybody else straight up. I actually have more confidence in Smith to score in that situation, than Horford.”
I agree that Smoove is more likely to create his own shot than Al. Smoove has a decent low post game, and Al actually has a better face up game, but Al’s passiveness means that setting him up with face up opportunities is less likely to result in success than setting Smoove up with low post opportunities. But I have more confidence in Smoove’s ability to score in the low post than I do in the Hawks’ ability to consistently dominate the offensive boards against Orlando in the first round when Joe starts throwing up contested bricks out of isolation.
“I would have no problem running the offense through them if one of them had a decent low post game. That would be the ideal scenario for this team, seeing that we don’t have ( or let ) the PG run the show.”
I would have no problem running the offense through Joe if he could make even 40% of the contested jumpers he invariably settles for every time the Hawks decide to run iso-Joe. The reason isolations work with players like Kobe and LeBron is because a) they make a higher percentage of those contested jumpers, and b) they are capable of driving inside and getting fouled and/or finishing when the shots are not falling. Joe is both incapable of and unwilling to drive inside and finish and/or get fouled consistently. With a player who is not capable of hitting contested jumpers or driving inside and getting fouled at a high enough rate, running isolations is a recipe for failure against good defensive teams.
And anyway, why shouldn’t the Hawks start letting the point guards run the show? Kirk was acquired to do that. Teague has shown that he can at least set up Al with buckets, if nothing else. Why should Kirk stand around and play Bibby’s role when clearly he has skills that allow him to be more dynamic?
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
9:20 pm
Also, even if Smoove’s ability to create his own shot in the low post isn’t up to the level that would allow the Hawks to run the offense through him full time, why can’t the Hawks run it through him until teams adjust and start playing straight up and subsequently adjust to another strategy (like posting Joe or running pick and rolls with Al for example) if Smoove can’t score on whoever is defending him?
northcydehttp://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/04/02/atlanta-hawks-hawks-88-celtics-83/?cp=4#comment-193034
April 2nd, 2011
9:46 pm
O’Brien
April 2nd, 2011
6:42 pm
Northcyde,
The Hawks are 11 – 6 when JJ attempts 20+ shots. That’s a .647 winning percentage. Extrapolate that to 82 games . . and you get 53 wins.
So like I said . . is this an anomaly, or is there something to this? .
****************************
Look closer. The 11 wins are:
Wizards, Cleveland, Clippers (twice), Toronto (twice), Sacramento, Miami, Knicks, Chicago, and Boston.
The 6 losses: Phoenix , OKC (twice), Houston, Dallas, Denver.
Against teams under .500, we are 7-1 when JJ takes 20 or more shots. If the opponent is .500 or better, and JJ takes 20 shots or more, our record is 4-5. That is a 44% win percentage against good teams. Extrapolate that to 82 games (if every team was over .500), and you get 36 wins.
So how successful will it be in the playoffs against a team thats above .500?
************************
I don’t know O’Brien.
Seeing that we’re currently 12 – 21 vs .500 teams . . ( which means the Hawks are 8 – 16 in games in which JJ didn’t take 20+ shots . . . a .333 winning percentage ) . . the current method was definitely not working.
Even in those losses, here were JJ’s numbers:
- Phoenix: 34 pts ( 15 – 27 FG ) . . lost by 4 . . ( trailed by 2 @ start of 4th )
- Oklahoma City: 16 pts ( 6 – 20 FG ) . . lost by 9 . . ( trailed by 4 @ start of 4th )
- Houston: 30 pts ( 11 – 24 FG ) . . lost by 6 . . ( led by 5 @ start of 4th )
- Dallas: 27 pts ( 13 – 27 FG ) . . lost by 11 . . ( led by 12 @ start of 4th )
- Denver: 22 pts ( 10 – 23 FG ) . . lost by 10 . . ( led by 9 @ start of 4th )
- Oklahoma City: 24 pts ( 11 – 24 FG ) . . lost by 7 . . ( trailed by 4 @ start of 4th )
- averages: 25.5 ppg . . ( 66 – 145 . . 45.5% FG )
. . every game we played in was a winnable game, and we were in striking distance and/or winning going into the 4th. All of those games were winnable. And we weren’t getting the mess beat out of us.
I know it may be “boring basketball” and even predictable. But sometimes, you simply have to play to your strengths. :Last year, that meant letting JJ and Jamal go ISO, while our big guys crashed the offensive boards.
Trying to get everyone involved in the offense has resulted in us being a far less effective offensive rebounding team, and a team that turns it over more. Either let the guy play ISO and tell others to hit the board or be ready for a pass . . or set up better plays for him to get his shot off within the rhythm of the offense.
In either case, he needs to be putting up more shots, not trying to set up every player on the team.
*********************
Here’s a number for you concerning the playoffs the last 3 years:
We’re 4 – 3 in games in which JJ takes 20+ shots. ( wins vs Boston ( ‘08 ) – Miami ( ‘09 ) – Milwaukee twice ( ‘10 )
We’re 6 – 16 in games in which JJ takes less than 20 shots . . ( in all eight 2nd round losses, he has attempted less than 20 shots )
*************************
So like I said . . . is this an anomaly, or is there some truth to all of this? And it’s not like he shot well in those wins either.
northcyde
April 2nd, 2011
9:50 pm
Not sure how all of that other crap got in my name, but I’ll post this again:
*********************
from O’Brien:
Look closer. The 11 wins are:
Wizards, Cleveland, Clippers (twice), Toronto (twice), Sacramento, Miami, Knicks, Chicago, and Boston.
The 6 losses: Phoenix , OKC (twice), Houston, Dallas, Denver.
Against teams under .500, we are 7-1 when JJ takes 20 or more shots. If the opponent is .500 or better, and JJ takes 20 shots or more, our record is 4-5. That is a 44% win percentage against good teams. Extrapolate that to 82 games (if every team was over .500), and you get 36 wins.
So how successful will it be in the playoffs against a team thats above .500?
************************
I don’t know O’Brien.
Seeing that we’re currently 12 – 21 vs .500 teams . . ( which means the Hawks are 8 – 16 in games in which JJ didn’t take 20+ shots . . . a .333 winning percentage ) . . the current method was definitely not working.
Even in those losses, here were JJ’s numbers:
- Phoenix: 34 pts ( 15 – 27 FG ) . . lost by 4 . . ( trailed by 2 @ start of 4th )
- Oklahoma City: 16 pts ( 6 – 20 FG ) . . lost by 9 . . ( trailed by 4 @ start of 4th )
- Houston: 30 pts ( 11 – 24 FG ) . . lost by 6 . . ( led by 5 @ start of 4th )
- Dallas: 27 pts ( 13 – 27 FG ) . . lost by 11 . . ( led by 12 @ start of 4th )
- Denver: 22 pts ( 10 – 23 FG ) . . lost by 10 . . ( led by 9 @ start of 4th )
- Oklahoma City: 24 pts ( 11 – 24 FG ) . . lost by 7 . . ( trailed by 4 @ start of 4th )
- averages: 25.5 ppg . . ( 66 – 145 . . 45.5% FG )
. . every game we played in was a winnable game, and we were in striking distance and/or winning going into the 4th. All of those games were winnable. And we weren’t getting the mess beat out of us.
I know it may be “boring basketball” and even predictable. But sometimes, you simply have to play to your strengths. :Last year, that meant letting JJ and Jamal go ISO, while our big guys crashed the offensive boards.
Trying to get everyone involved in the offense has resulted in us being a far less effective offensive rebounding team, a team that turns it over more, and a far less efficient offensive team overall.
Either let the guy play ISO and tell others to hit the board or be ready for a pass . . or set up better plays for him to get his shot off within the rhythm of the offense. In either case, he needs to be putting up more shots, not trying to set up every player on the team. We still need his playmaking ability. But he should be more of a scorer than he is a facilitator. My only suggestion would be for him to look to drive more and draw fouls when he’s cold.
*********************
Here’s a number for you concerning the playoffs the last 3 years:
We’re 4 – 3 in games in which JJ takes 20+ shots. ( wins vs Boston ( ‘08 ) – Miami ( ‘09 ) – Milwaukee twice ( ‘10 )
We’re 6 – 16 in games in which JJ takes less than 20 shots . . ( in all eight 2nd round losses, he has attempted less than 20 shots )
*************************
So like I said . . . is this an anomaly, or is there some truth to all of this? And it’s not like he shot well in those wins either.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
9:51 pm
“We’re 4 – 3 in games in which JJ takes 20+ shots. ( wins vs Boston ( ‘08 ) – Miami ( ‘09 ) – Milwaukee twice ( ‘10 )
We’re 6 – 16 in games in which JJ takes less than 20 shots . . ( in all eight 2nd round losses, he has attempted less than 20 shots )”
How many of those were games in which the Hawks were getting blown out so badly that Joe got pulled before he could put up 20 shots? I would imagine most if not all of the 2nd round losses would fall under that category.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
9:56 pm
In fact, forget “2nd round losses”… all but two of the Hawks playoff losses, period, in the Joe Johnson era have been by double digits.
northcyde
April 2nd, 2011
9:57 pm
25 – 20 vs .500 or better teams in 09 – 10
17 – 23 vs .500 or better teams in 08 – 09
12 – 29 vs .500 or better teams in 07 – 08
And to think that we had to recently beat two +.500 teams just to get to those 12 wins this year, it shows you just how dismal we’ve been vs good teams this year.
O'Brien
April 2nd, 2011
10:14 pm
northcyde,
Last year against Orlando in the playoffs, these were JJ’s numbers;
Game 1: 4-11 in 30 minutes, Game 2: 5-16 in 30 minutes
Game 3: 3-15 in 36 minutes, Game 4: 5-15 in 44 minutes
So would it really have helped if he took 5 more shots each game?
What’s interesting is he struggled from behind the arc against Orlando in the playoffs too. For the series, he was 3-17 from 3. But he still insists on taking three pointers as if he is making them at a good %. And it has carried over to the regular season.
northcyde
April 2nd, 2011
10:21 pm
Najeh . . that’s true for some of those games, no doubt. But part of the problem was that he wasn’t getting up enough shots to begin with. I mean, all of this stuff is easily researchable.
I’ll do just the 1st half of those games, and list how many shots JJ took in each of those games in the 1st half.
vs Cleveland
Game 1: 2 – 4 FG . . down 5 @ halftime
Game 2: 3 – 8 FG . . down 14 @ halftime
Game 3: 5 – 11 FG . . down 1 @ halftime
Game 4: 4 – 7 FG . . down 2 @ halftime
vs Orlando
Game 1: 2 – 5 FG . . down 20 @ halftime
Game 2: 4 – 9 FG . . up 8 @ halftime
Game 3: 1 – 9 FG . . down 19 @ halftime
Game 4: 3 – 7 FG . . down 9@ halftime
The playoffs are known for guys who attempt to take over games. In that instance, it’s JJ’s fault that he didn’t look to shoot more in those games in which he had it going a little. But because he’s always been the defacto PG for this team, he has to try to set everyone else up as well.
He and Crawford are the only guys on the team who can create something out of nothing. That’s why they took the most shots last year. If we had a high assist pass first type PG that could completely control the game ( Nash, Paul, possibly Andre Miller, etc ), that type of PG could make the game easier on everybody, and get the scorers the ball.
But because the way we are constructed, our main guys can’t afford to play passive basketball. Our complimentary players like Marvin aren’t dependable enough to shoot a high percentage, when the main guys are covered.
So like I said. It’s not like the current way of playing is working. And our defense in the 2nd round has arguably been worse than our offense in the 2nd round.
The Hawks simply need to play to their strengths, not play to what they think will work. If that means more ISO and more switching, so be it.
northcyde
April 2nd, 2011
10:30 pm
O’Brien . . it may have helped if he stayed ultra aggressive throughout those games. Only 2 of those games were out of reach by halftime.
In the playoffs, the shotmakers are usually the ones who tend to take over the game, while the complimentary players make timely plays. If he even starts out remotely hot in the 1st quarter, he needs to look to put up a huge number in the playoffs.
We’re 7 – 4 when that dude scores 20 or more in the playoffs. And two of those losses came at Milwaukee, in which he played great, but the others sucked.
When it comes to the playoffs, we can’t depend on the balanced scoring to carry us. We have to defend first and foremost. Then we need to get and keep the ball in the hands of our most capable scorers. If a complimentary guy steps up and provides timely offense, that’ll be great.
But in the playoffs, only JJ, Smith, Horford, and Jamal ( if hot ) should be taking more than 10 shots in a game. And if JJ leads us in shots, maybe Smith and Horford can gather up some of his misses and put the ball back in the hole.
We’re dead in the water though, if JJ doesn’t play aggressive offensively, and Smith and Horford live out on the perimeter 60% of the time.
Slimjr
April 2nd, 2011
10:33 pm
Robin needs BATMAN,He’s gone now(JC2)……..LOL
As long as the Hawks feature the 3 stooges(AL=I dont want to break a finger nail blocking shots at the rim,Josh=I am as good as Magic was, and Marvin=I miss mommy) as starters and closer in games, this franchise is going to continue to get their beat downs in the playoffs..Real simple they are over rated as bigs! Other blogger’s are pointing out the obvious against the +.500 teams the Hawks have a dismal record and these three are not getting it done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! iso cant do it all by himself out there..Poor Guy……………………….LOL
Scottie jettison the core asap!!!!!!! AYE Captain!!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
10:39 pm
“The playoffs are known for guys who attempt to take over games. ”
Those “guys” are almost without exception much better than Joe. It’s not that Joe isn’t taking over games; it is that he can’t, at least against good defenses.
Just because what the Hawks have been doing this year hasn’t been working as well as expected doesn’t mean the old way is better. At least from a playoff standpoint, there is ample proof that it is not. What the Hawks need is to continue sharing the ball but in a way that will generate shots inside as opposed to jump shots from outside.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
10:43 pm
I mean for crying out loud, it has only been three days since the Hawks faced another quality opponent, built up an 8 point lead by sharing the ball and running the offense through Smoove, and then nearly gave the lead back by going to iso-Joe in the 4th quarter. Just because the “old way” worked once doesn’t mean it is better.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
10:48 pm
Another problem with looking at Joe’s production over the past few years and using them to decide what to do now is the simple fact that Joe is a much less efficient player now than he used to be.
Slimjr
April 2nd, 2011
10:51 pm
Al and Josh have no go to post up shot on the block! Real simple they will not get you to an ECF…………………….Keep Jacking up those Jump shots the 2011 season for you guys will be over real soon…………………………..
AL for NENE
Josh for RUDY GAY
Marvin for a bag of dounuts….LOL
O'Brien
April 2nd, 2011
10:55 pm
Regardless of how many shots JJ takes, I think JJ needs to be decisive with the ball. He can’t pound the ball for as long as he does and expect guys to stand around and wait for him to shoot
Slimjr
April 2nd, 2011
10:56 pm
iso appears to have lost a step or two???????????? guess his pockets are weighed down at 200k per night…………..LOL
Get Real
April 2nd, 2011
11:41 pm
Josh Smith once did one thing better than almost anyone else in the NBA. Block shots. He was a game- changer in this respect. Teams had to change their strategy because he was so proficient at this one skill.
Now…. Nothing. Absolutely nothing in this department.
It’s all been abandoned in favor of the one thing in which he was most inept. Shooting jumpers. This is almost an unbelievable turn of events.
And yet, “stat nerds” keep pointing to their meaningless bulllS%$% statatistics in order to justify what has actually become of this guy this season.
It seems that very few people here are capable of carrying on a debate without attempting to quote individual statistics. Basketball is a team game!
Anyone, any coach or any team with an IQ above a rock would double with Josh’s man and allow him to destroy his own team!
Questions:
1. If you were coaching against the Hawks, how many of you would not induce Josh to shoot jumpers?
2. And how may of you would prefer him out on the perimeter as opposed to inside the paint?
3, How many of you would not want Josh guarding the 3 — so that you could instruct your 3 to stay out of the paint?
And if it were me, I would allow Al to shoot his mid-range jumpers as well. It would keep the misguided “Al Horford Love-Fest” intact amongst bloggers and induce Josh to continue to try to achieve the love that Horford has (somehow) attacted from the fans.
I don’t like either Smith or Horford. The former doesn’t have “it” upstairs and the latter doesn’t have “it” downstairs.
superiorblogman
April 3rd, 2011
12:00 am
Kirk “Lateral Move” Hinrich has done absolutely nothing to help the Hawks. As for Grandad you can try to sell Kirk being in Josh face all you want but until Kirk can produce on the floor his talking will get him no respect, that is just the way life goes. Trading Jordan Crawford and a 1st rd pick while adding more salary has done more harm than help. Kirk was and is the wrong move. I can’t wait to see him gone.
northcyde
April 3rd, 2011
12:01 am
Najeh Davenpoop
April 2nd, 2011
10:43 pm
I mean for crying out loud, it has only been three days since the Hawks faced another quality opponent, built up an 8 point lead by sharing the ball and running the offense through Smoove, and then nearly gave the lead back by going to iso-Joe in the 4th quarter. Just because the “old way” worked once doesn’t mean it is better.
**********************
LOL . . so I guess that was the reason why Smith was crying to LD to get Collins back into the game. Because the offense was so bad?
JJ had taken a total of 2 shots in the 4th quarter, until the final 2 minutes of the game, in which he took 3 more shots down the stretch. That lead didn’t disappear because of ISO. That lead disappeared because Horford couldn’t guard Howard.
It is what it is, when it comes to the Hawks.
We have don’t have a great PG, nor a great low post presence to throw the ball to down low. So our star players simply have to do what they have to do in order to win games. Whether it be Smith, or Horford, or God forbid . . JJ . . they simply do what they have to do.
The Hawks aren’t winning anything in the playoffs trying to get 6 or 7 people into double figure scoring.
Rusty
April 3rd, 2011
12:06 am
It’s quite obvious that Joe wasn’t good enough to take over our offense in the past & now he is playing poorly,probably due to the tremendous pressure he’s put on himself with that superstar contract. I have always thought that the only chance to win that this team had was to play uptempo basketball & the only chance they had doing that was thru teague, but due to ld’s stupidness that time has passed.
Rusty
April 3rd, 2011
12:09 am
You can’t play every one max minutes leading up to the playoffs & max minutes in the playoffs & expect to win anything, this is just poor coaching.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 3rd, 2011
12:19 am
“LOL . . so I guess that was the reason why Smith was crying to LD to get Collins back into the game. Because the offense was so bad?”
The Hawks only scored 16 points in that quarter. Their offense might not have been the most obvious problem, but it was a major problem.
Teams without go to scorers need to play like the Nuggets and Sixers to maximize their chances of success. Joe is not a go to scorer, at least not against good defenses.
northcyde
April 3rd, 2011
12:28 am
That means we’re dead then.
Because Denver and Philly aren’t doing anything this year in the playoffs. Teams without a guy capable of taking over the game during the playoffs don’t win jack.
Season over.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 3rd, 2011
12:34 am
“That means we’re dead then.
Because Denver and Philly aren’t doing anything this year in the playoffs. Teams without a guy capable of taking over the game during the playoffs don’t win jack.
Season over.”
Yeah, this city already knows that. That’s why the Hawks are near dead last in attendance.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 3rd, 2011
12:39 am
I stand corrected. The Hawks’ average home attendance has actually climbed to 22nd now.
The broader point, that ATL fans have tuned out this team because they see that this team doesn’t have a guy who can take over a game and know this team isn’t going to “win jack”, still stands.
brigadierjerry
April 3rd, 2011
1:09 am
I think the thing with Joe Johnson is when the game grinds down and you need his points, I am not sure he can deliver it.Johnson is really not that type of player never has been that is going to be given you 35-45 points on a regular basis. Joe Johnson game has peaked to be honest a few years ago. The problem for the Hawks is that other players such as Horford and Smith and Williams to a lesser extent have to pick up the slack and they cant do it on a consistent basis. It is really a catch 22 because Joe really cannot carry the team like he used to. Joe will put up good numbers from a point standpoint because his game is going down at a glaciers pace rather than a rapid drop
I look at Johnson’s game a lot like Paul Pierce’s game. One thing with Pierce and even Kobe altough less so and more so Melo and Durant, when their games are off they get to the line to makeup the difference and Johnson needs to do that more but that isnt really his game. I think Johnson needs to pattern his game like Pierce look for contact to draw fouls and work inside out
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
April 3rd, 2011
1:15 am
What’s in the water up there in the A around Phillips? Joe Johnson, ZaZa, Nique and according to Drnaryb, Grandad – are all roughin’ up punks in the arena! I’d be remiss if I did not through Marvin in mix from back in the last Knick game in ATL. I do feel they are attempting to shed that soft rep.
Just like LD thinks the Hawks aren’t there yet, I still say LD stands for Lame Duck before he enters his last year of his contract.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 3rd, 2011
1:20 am
“I look at Johnson’s game a lot like Paul Pierce’s game. One thing with Pierce and even Kobe altough less so and more so Melo and Durant, when their games are off they get to the line to makeup the difference and Johnson needs to do that more but that isnt really his game. I think Johnson needs to pattern his game like Pierce look for contact to draw fouls and work inside out”
I was thinking the exact same thing watching that Hawks-Celtics game. It also helps that Pierce is damn near automatic from mid range and is able to create space for his jump shots by using his little step back move better than Joe.
slimjr
April 3rd, 2011
1:30 am
Do these Hawks players even study film??? A: no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why they are going to get their azzes handed to them………………………………….
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
April 3rd, 2011
1:36 am
Kirk “Lateral Move” Hinrich
good one Superiorblogman – I totally agree with your post.
EmirS.
April 3rd, 2011
4:49 am
NBA.com is advertising Hawks playoff tickets. Starting at ONLY $11.
Anyways, I was watching highlights of Jordan Crawford on youtube…in a Wizards jersey. Now he may be going 8-18 or 9-20 , but this guy….can play. I think its great we acquired Kirk. He’s helped the team alot. But this Crawford kid….is making me eat my words up.
I gotta agree with northcyde, we will regret giving this kid away.
doc
April 3rd, 2011
7:17 am
najeh agreed and i have often compared the two, pierce and jj. it is more that than kobe or s wade at this point to compare like games to jj. not bad company but he falls a bit short of all three. jj doesnt have the killer instinct nor ability to pull it off like pierce does when it counts. pierce also plays the position that i for years have thought jj should be playing.
to this point:
Teams without go to scorers need to play like the Nuggets and Sixers to maximize their chances of success. Joe is not a go to scorer, at least not against good defenses.
we have woody lite not karl nor collis as our coach.