Atlanta Hawks: ‘Alternative present’ appealing?
At Hoopinion, Bret LaGree uses his Cavs game recap to imagine how Hawks fans might have accepted a team without Joe Johnson:
Last night might have been a glimpse of an alternative present, one where the Hawks, at 12:01am on July 1, 2010, did not immediately offer Joe Johnson every cent they possibly could. A present where the Hawks, following a sober assessment of their current state and future options, chose to take a chance on their young frontcourt, trusted their fan base to accept short-term mediocrity as part of a bid for long-term relevance, and let someone else be the highest bidder for Joe Johnson’s thirties.
Last night’s Hawks game doesn’t prove anything about anything and I acknowledge that this alternative present I envisioned assumed some manner of Mike Bibby disposal to remain a pleasant thought. But say the Hawks had sold the 2010-11 season on the basis of the future. Imagine a 2010-11 season wherein the Hawks still extended Al Horford to a reasonable deal, either got rid of Bibby in some fashion or just played Jeff Teague anyway, looked forward to the options inherent in Jamal Crawford’s expiring contract coming off the books, struggled mightily against good teams, and beat up on bad teams.
It would, I suspect, be, empirically, much like this team. The difference would be the path taken to achieve similar results and if that path frequently included nights like this . . . would the Hawks be significantly worse off in terms of short-term perception? Would the future seem, if not more hopeful, at least less sadly certain?
Of course all of this assumes the Hawks would have a) received some useful players/assets in a sign-and-trade for J.J. and/or wisely used the cap space left over after his departure; b) done the same with Jamal; and c) used whatever assets the team acquired in such a way as to build a team that provided fans real hope for the future. Considering the team’s recent history of drafting, player evaluation, and resource allocation (both in terms of money and player roles), there would be some understandable skepticism about the prospects for such a scenario bearing fruit.
Still, I do think it’s a vision ASG could have sold to fans without much trouble. Normally teams that let their best player walk face a potential backlash. But J.J. (or really any of the current “core” outside of Al) wasn’t popular after last spring’s surrender to Orlando. The Hawks could have leveled with their fans and told them while the team may not have been as good this season without J.J. it still could make the playoffs (and, if not, get a lottery pick).
Then the Hawks could have gone about the process of turning J.J., Jamal, and any of their beloved “core” into a group that plausibly would be better next season than in 2010-11. All the while the Hawks could have whispered that they plan to make an all-out run at Dwight or CP3 in the summer of 2012 because ASG knows you need a top 5-10 player to win a title and will pay the tax for that chance. Failing that, the Hawks could have built a team that truly follows the Detroit model and includes tough-minded, defensive-focused players while still looking for opportunities to acquire a top 5 player or luck up into drafting one.
Instead, ASG found itself in the curious position of giving J.J. the richest contract in the league, in direct contradiction to its (unfair) cheap image, and getting ripped for it. The criticism increased when they failed to follow that bold move with others and settled into a familiar stasis. Now the Hawks are a mess with the playoffs to begin soon.
Their attendance has sagged. As LeGree points out, their esteem in the eyes of fans has declined both among those who are casual and not interested in the Hawks as entertainment, and those who are serious and stay loyal to the team but are dismayed because they saw this coming and now have little hope for future improvement.
So, even if you are skeptical that the Hawks could have competently embraced LeGree’s J.J.-less “alternative present” and then made smart moves for the future I’m sure they could have sold the plan. It turns out that would have been better than what they are selling right now.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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111 comments Add your comment
Mr. Phil
March 29th, 2011
12:26 pm
All these people defending Joe need to remember one thing, He and his max Koncak (see what I did there) are the overriding reason the Hawks will not be more than they are right now for the foreseeable future. This albatross has doomed the team to purgatory. It will NOT be championship caliber. And we will continue to go to the playoffs and get smacked around year after year. A playoff pushover is what we are.
Slimjr
March 29th, 2011
12:28 pm
I agree with vava74 without ISO JJ, this team is a lottery pick this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Duh………..Who would step up Marvin,Josh or Al?? Dream on……………………………………
cp
March 29th, 2011
12:29 pm
there were a lot of people on here who thought the Hawks should have went in that direction. the probkem is that there is no sort of plan from the ownership or front office.
Mr. Phil
March 29th, 2011
12:31 pm
No one seems to get it….People say without JJ the team would be lottery bound…I say that’s is exactly where they should be because what we see night in and night out is worse. You either trying to win a championship or you are rebuilding. Being inbetween is ripping off the fans.
JohnGTFan
March 29th, 2011
12:32 pm
Here’s a fun number about JJ….in 39 games…I’LL SAY THAT AGAIN…39 GAMES he didn’t break the 20 point mark. That’s from a “max player”.
dmr
March 29th, 2011
12:34 pm
Contrary to comments made by M. Gearon, Jr. more than once. The fans actually do understand, they do know what is going on, and they are smarter than the Ownership. I hate to harp on the past, but the ASG have given us no vision to the future.
Everyone knew the Hawks needed a point guard when they passed on Chris Paul. Everyone knew signing Joe Johnson to a max deal was not going to result in a major upgrade for this team, nor would it lead to better playoff results.
In the end, the Hawks are as irrelevant as say “VCU in the NCAA Tournament”! Oh wait, I’m sorry. VCU is relevant; just not the Atlanta Hawks.
RealSquawk
March 29th, 2011
12:37 pm
Mr. Phil – Bingo!!!!
Also its not like Joe has been the best player on the team this season. He hasn’t and only for about two or three weeks could he hold that mantle. He has also only led this team in scoring 24 times this season. That my friends is a problem.
I don’t think we are a lottery team without him either. I do think we are lottery team moving forward with him.
JohnGTFan
March 29th, 2011
12:43 pm
Just thinking out loud here…but I would love to see LD do the following…and I’m sure he knows he’s gone after this season. But just in case, make a point…make a stand. Bench JJ for the rest of the season. I know it sounds crazy..but the Hawks aren’t beating anyone in a 7 game series anyway. How AWESOME would that be. To see him just sitting on the bench. It would HOPEFULLY do 2 things:
1. Light a fire under that idiot’s ***
2. Send a message to the ASG what a horrible mistake they made.
And if nothing else…would be EXTREMELY entertaining!!!!
RealSquawk
March 29th, 2011
12:45 pm
vava74 – you should turn some of that vile you have for Jamal into some objective thinking about the role Joe Johnson plays on this team.
RealSquawk
March 29th, 2011
12:49 pm
One more thing – When Marvin gets the touches he gets to the line like a top player in the league should
Geemack
March 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
Michael Cunningham
You do a great job at covering all angels of the Hawks, and not just the favorable ones.
Now if we can just get a basketball team that’s this good.
tremaine
March 29th, 2011
12:54 pm
I did not want them to waist all that money on Joe especially after what he said in the Orlando series. I did expect them to resign him because as a longtime Hawks fan, I am use to management making the wrong decisions.
tremaine
March 29th, 2011
12:55 pm
SAD!!!
Geemack
March 29th, 2011
12:59 pm
Mr. Phil
As an Atlanta fan you should be used to it.
My suggestion is get a second team on the the west coast, that way you don’t have to root against the Hawks.
You can enjoy the pleasures of winning, and still support the home team.
It’s worked for me since 83. I’ve learned to love the Lakers as much as I love the Hawks.
ole richie
March 29th, 2011
1:00 pm
al horford is the only player on the team worth keeping
Peter
March 29th, 2011
1:01 pm
Ok what do you think the fans should think after the famous statement from JJ he doesn’t care if the fans show up ?
That should have been the statement that let JJ walk from Atlanta.
The fans have just reacted to his statement, and over all attitude of the organization.
The ownership group really is bad, from the top to the bottom…..thus the Max contract, the decline in the team, and attendance.
This team will only get worse.
Big-Mike
March 29th, 2011
1:02 pm
I`m not saying JJ is not all bad…he needs a counter part that poses a real threat…Playoff time you better rebound and get some easy scores off second and third chances…ask Boston…LA killed them on the boards after Kobe horrible shooting…We get one crack at it 80% of the time…throw
in no midrange game from Josh and Marvin and Mr.P ..No real shooter to get the defense from
packing in the lane…….We cant beat no-one off the dribble …shoooot we’ve been lucky to win at all.
JeJe
March 29th, 2011
1:08 pm
Wow @ Vava74. Bringing the heat today!
Gotta agree though. Jamal was my boy last year, but this year he is not finishing at the basket, he’s had way too many Mike Bibby games statistically, and has not controlled the offense. HE SAID WHEN JOINING THE TEAM THAT PEOPLE DON’T REALIZE HOW GOOD OF A PASSER HE IS. SO WHY IS HE FREEZING UP AS PG
Rufus1
March 29th, 2011
1:10 pm
“When Marvin gets the touches he gets to the line like a top player in the league should”-RealSquawk
He is the only one not afraid to get fouled.
MistaGamer
March 29th, 2011
1:19 pm
@Rufus1:
You’ve summed up perfectly what I said would be the biggest problem with the on-the-court (and I believe off-the-court as well, although no player would go there) of this team if we signed Joe to a max deal. And, I believe it has played out as expected.
Joe got an “Alpha Dog” contract and he’s no “Alpha Dog”. He doesn’t play like one, he doesn’t lead like one, and he doesn’t carry himself like one. Just think of what that deal did to undermine this team both on the court and economically.
Trojan
March 29th, 2011
1:21 pm
Poll Question: How many of you Hawks fans get excited when you see the headline, “Joe Johnson to play tonight after the injury…..”.
I am not. It’s almost a downer to me.
ILL-Logical
March 29th, 2011
1:33 pm
MC: The story is alternately subversive; promissory and slightly irreverent in tone. Interesting. In fact, save for your gratuitous ASA reference ,it’s quite good.
AB
March 29th, 2011
1:36 pm
One thing that I think a lot of people miss is the fact that if we had not signed JJ, then who would you get. JJ is not only here to make our team better, but he is here to attract other free agents that are looking for a team. I hear people say CP3 and Dwight Howard…why would either of them even think about coming to a team that is rebuilding when there are championship contenders begging them to come. Our best hope is to keep Joe, continue developing our supporting players and get a big man in here so that everyone is playing the correct position. Anything other than that is fantasy.
Mr. Phil
March 29th, 2011
1:44 pm
@ ab “JJ is not only here to make our team better, but he is here to attract other free agents that are looking for a team.”
JJ couldnot attract ants if his face was covered with honey. Other players don’t take him seriously. Remember the snickering from Paul Pierce when Joe got selected to the all star game the second time. Please.
No team is going to play with JJ with this coach and with this ownership for any reason other than cold hard cash. Something ASG is sorely lacking.
vava74
March 29th, 2011
1:44 pm
Realsquawk,
I posted a reply but the blog monster ate it.
In a nutshell:
I am not happy with JJ’s season and not happy with the fact that he sulks and disappears.
But even blog favorite Al does the same, playing like a sissy when he gets frustrated or there is too much beef down low.
But I know why JJ is not playing well: he is fed up with LD and fed up with how he rewards Smoove and Jamal – who play recklessly and without discipline.
JJ is the #3 SG in the league. Even today, given his ability to defend as well as he attacks.
DC
March 29th, 2011
1:45 pm
I understand the gripe about JJ, however I do not think he is the complete problem nor the solution. My biggest issue with JJ is that he does not seem to play hard are shoot like he wants to hit.
My biggest issue with the team as hold is: JS, LD & RS oh and the ASH too.
Who told JS he is jump shooter or point guard? LD has no clue and was not ready to be a head coach, RS just doesn’t have the money backing him up in his decsions and I am pleading with the ASG to sell the team.
DC
March 29th, 2011
1:45 pm
Issues with the team as a whole, sorry my typo.
Mr. Phil
March 29th, 2011
1:48 pm
excuse…i meant no star player wants to play with JJ.
DC
March 29th, 2011
1:49 pm
@VAVA74 – you make a great point. I seriously think this team does not get along with each other overall. They do not have that relationship like a Lebron, D-Wade and Bosh or Rondo, Ray Allen, Paul and K.G. Everyone wants to be the man instead of having a role they can handle to perfection and at the end of the day LD is the first one that should go buh-bye!!!
Peter
March 29th, 2011
1:50 pm
Is anyone paying attention to Jordan Crawford who starts for the Wizards ?
He had 25 points last night.
Please tell me why we traded him away someone ?
Other then the Hawks can’t judge talent ?
Barton
March 29th, 2011
1:51 pm
Can we trade the Atlanta Hawks for the Washington Wizards and give Jerry Sloan a 6 year $120 million contract to come out of retirement.. I think that may be worth our time and money.
Mr. Phil
March 29th, 2011
1:52 pm
@DC
don’t dare get rid of LD before you get rid of the man that hired him and the men that hired him.
Barton
March 29th, 2011
1:55 pm
Also, JohnGT.. if you could get a petition going around for that I would absolutely sign it
nique
March 29th, 2011
1:55 pm
It’s easy to second guess, but the second guessing sure is appealing here.
ToeKnee
March 29th, 2011
2:03 pm
MC,
Is there any realistic way that we could trade Joe?
Or does his contract really make him ‘untradeable’? Could you see any team willing to take on his contract, like the Mavs or maybe the Rockets? To me it seems any team with cap space might be saving to try and get a Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, or Deron Williams in the coming years. What would the Hawks have to do to trade him?
Rufus1
March 29th, 2011
2:04 pm
@Mr. Phil
Sund wanted to hire Dwayne Casey, but ASG said hire LD.
Barton
March 29th, 2011
2:04 pm
Sorry, should have combined these posts/thoughts, but maybe we should let JJ ride the bench for the rest of the season to “get healthy” aka show how good this team is without him and let Marvin, and Teague if he ever gets in the game, build some confidence going into the playoffs.
Rev in Tampa
March 29th, 2011
2:12 pm
@Geemack
“Michael Cunningham
You do a great job at covering all angels of the Hawks, and not just the favorable ones.
Now if we can just get a basketball team that’s this good”
I’m stepping in for the Dept. of Unintended Irony:
The Hawks have wings but none of them are “angels”. And what is an unfavorable angel? A demon.
JohnGTFan
March 29th, 2011
2:20 pm
It would really suck for the team itself, and some don’t deserve it, but I almost wish that the last regular season game at home, that absolutely ZERO PEOPLE attended the game. If LD won’t bench JJ (just my dream…never happen), then how about the message the community would send by not showing at all. Be the most exposure (albeit bad) this team gets all year.
yeahsure
March 29th, 2011
2:24 pm
MC,
What is the status of the acquisition of Hawks/Thrashers?? We hear there were multiple interested parties a few weeks ago, now nothing. Someone come save this team.
slimjr
March 29th, 2011
2:28 pm
Sorry Rev. Angels and Demons are two totally different spiritual entities/beings….Don’t piss off your guardian Angels?? LOL….
This subject matter is for another blog on another server……
Back to the count down to “Houston I think we’ve got a problem”….(Hawks and their 4th consecutive playoff run. PLAYOFFS?).
JohnGTFan
March 29th, 2011
2:36 pm
Yea, they’ll be in the playoffs, but it will end quickly. Not even worth watching. I “might” watch a game, but I highly doubt it. Probably be more exciting to watch paint dry.
Grandad
March 29th, 2011
2:36 pm
Alt. present could have included enough $ for a quality Coach.
slimjr
March 29th, 2011
2:41 pm
The team to watch in this playoff run will be the surging THUNDER CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have swept the freaking Hawks 3 years in a row!!!!!! They are the real deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!EXCITING..What the Hawks should be with this CORE, aye SUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Run dont walk…………………
Geemack
March 29th, 2011
2:49 pm
@ Rev in Tampa
I meant “Angle. My bad rev. thanks for pointing that out.
M@
March 29th, 2011
2:50 pm
You’re exactly right with the, ‘but are dismayed because they saw this coming and now have little hope for future improvement’ comment. I argued with some other avid fans about this once we signed JJ.
We are the Knicks when they signed Allan Houston. And now we’ll be succumbed to mediocrity at best for the next 4 years in a top-heavy East. But AFTER those 3 years, we’re bottom feeding and cash-strapped. Just like the Knicks.
And it only took them, what….10 years to come out of it? (And then, only kinda so far…6th in the East)
O'Brien
March 29th, 2011
2:54 pm
After being resigned, JJ’s agent said he (JJ) would try and recruit other players to come to the A. But the bottom line is, ownership and money play a big part in recruiting. Hawks are already over the salary cap and refuse to go over the luxury tax, so that alone limits the players we can afford. And then our ownership is horrible, so I dont blame JJ for other players not wanting to come here.
As for JJ’s lackluster performance, I think the blame is shared between him and LD.
JJ has been our captain for 4 or 5 years, and he has NOT provided the leadership necessary to keep guys in line. All he has done is keep his mouth shut, and try to lead by example, when clearly that approach never worked.
So if he is made at Josh, Jamal etc for rebelling (or doing things on their own), he deserves a big part of the problem for his (lack of) actions as a leader, since he was our only captain for years. And if he is mad at them, he needs to talk to them, not sulk and distance himself.
And LD is to blame because I dont think he knows how to maximize the strengths of these players.
SWAT Native
March 29th, 2011
3:00 pm
Joe Johnson is the only major free agent that hs wanted to come play for the Hawks in the last ten years, even though many of the big time players in the league own homes here or at least love to visit. There is a reason that they don’t want to come here. Not resigning Joe would have sent a message to the rest of the league that the Hawks won’t pay to keep their star players, and the Hawks would never have signed another major free agent. The Hawks had to keep Joe or the future would be even more bleak than it looks right now. I, for one, wouldn’t want to see another ten years of lottery ball.
By the way, it seems that much of the fan base has given up on LD. But think about the message it sends to the coaches fraternity if the Hawks fire a playoff coach after one year. Will this be seen as a desirable job? I bet a lot of coaches already feel that the Hawks did wrong by Woody.
O'Brien
March 29th, 2011
3:02 pm
FYI, New blog up
Bird
March 29th, 2011
3:27 pm
Somebody mentioned lets see what the Hawks can do against elite teams without Joe, hell the outcome can’t be much worse than the outcome against elite teams with Joe!