Atlanta Hawks: What happened to Joe’s mojo?
Sorry for the late post, blog people. Don’t ever believe ‘em when they tell you the pupil dilation wears off in an hour . . . .
The Hawks aren’t going anywhere if J.J. doesn’t get in a groove. OK, they may not go anywhere even if he does, but they’ve got no chance if his form doesn’t improve as he finishes up his least productive year since his first one in Atlanta and his least efficient year since his days in Phoenix.
The problem is opponents aren’t making it easy for J.J. to find his form. He still draws swarming double teams most nights and it’s seemed to knock him off kilter. There are times when J.J. looks as if he’s not sure what to do, and I think that’s a big reason why he’s sounded so despondent lately.
Clearly the Hawks need Joe (and Jamal for that matter) to find a way to score. Passing off every time he gets doubled isn’t the answer, since it takes Atlanta’s most talented scorer out of the offense and plays into the strategy of the defense.
What’s J.J.’s thinking when he gets doubled?
“Early, I just try to make the right basketball play and get guys in position to where they can make baskets,” J.J. said. “But if it’s not going right I do tend to force it every now and then because I just feel I have to do something other than just sit there and accept the double team and pass the ball.”
Is that because as the Hawks’ top scorer (and top dog) for so many years he feels a responsibility to lift them out of their current funk?
“Yeah,” he said, “but there is only so much I can do. So I just try to give em what I’ve got.”
I asked L.D. if the only way J.J. will find more rook to work is if the Hawks make opponents pay for the doubles by making the right plays when J.J. passes out. He said that’s only part of the equation and he stumbled upon another factor when he couldn’t sleep the other night.
Drew turned on the television at 3 a.m. and came across a replay of the Thunder-Heat game from a couple weeks back:
“I am sitting there watching Kevin Durant and they are double-teaming him all over the place. But he goes quick. He gets his shot quick. He comes off the screens looking to shoot it quick. And he’s accepting double teams and making plays out of double teams. Sometimes it calls for showing a willingness to make the right plays out of double teams. If they see you are a reluctant passer the heat will be turned up even more. Not saying that’s what’s happening with us but those are the things you have to do with double teams. If you are a scorer, knowing that you are going to be double-teamed you have got to go into your shot and your offense a little quicker. If not, you have to make a play out of a double team. The other thing that affects double teams is where you are on the floor. It’s a lot easier to double team when you are on one side of the floor than when you are in the middle of the floor. We’ve gone to where doing more things out of middle of the floor.”
Sounds good in theory, but “quick” has never been J.J.’s style. He’s been at his best deliberately setting up his opponent and using his size to get off his shot (which obviously doesn’t work against double teams). I’m not even sure J.J. can play a more dynamic style like Durant, D-Wade, et al.
The good news is Joe says his health is not an issue, so at least you can scratch that off the list of potential problems.
“You are always going to have your nick-nacks from the first month until the season is over with,” he said. “That’s common.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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221 comments Add your comment
TWO WORDS
March 26th, 2011
11:18 am
OVER PAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!
julius
March 26th, 2011
11:26 am
fire the coach get a point guard trade joe, zaza, and for sure trade soft garbage marvin williams this dude got paid and he sucks
The Game Has Changed
March 26th, 2011
11:31 am
Alright,yall get off Joe. He just needs to be more selfish. He is a top 5 SG. How many shooting guards have been to the playoffs three years in a row and avg 20,5,5. On two. Kobe and Joe. If yall want to complain about a guard making too much money holla at M. Redd. 18 million a year and he has played in 36 games the last three years. @Choosen1-The problem would be getting Josh to commit to the post.
The Game Has Changed
March 26th, 2011
11:34 am
So what if he is over paid. Stop Hating. A brother can take care of his family for generations to come.
Salvador Gonzalez
March 26th, 2011
11:35 am
CAN THE HAWKS SEND JOE´S “TALENTS” TO A RICH TEAM LIKE THE KNICKS OR NEW JERSEY?
JUST GET RID OF HIM!!!!!! THE FRANCHISE HAS NO FUTURE BECAUSE OF HIS CONTRACT!!!!
drmaryb (*_-)
March 26th, 2011
11:55 am
“But thats irrelevant now. This roster is the team we have. And even with the flaws in that roster that is always discussed here (Needing a true center, a defednder, etc.) This team should still be better than a 40win team in the East at this point in the season.”
_________________
This is my point. I could care less how much a basketball player makes. How many times do we have to beat a dead horse on the daily.
I could give a rats tail how much money this ASKG spends, its no skin off my nose.
For all I care, the can spend until the Luxury Tax becomes illegal.
It’s all irrelevant to me as a fan!
joey
March 26th, 2011
11:57 am
again, joe is the problem he has the talent to torch teams but hes to passive and has no killer instinct and for those of you who think we should trade josh smith are crazy if j smith can just play like he did against philly we could be a elite team
Woody
March 26th, 2011
12:13 pm
most of the teams that made trades at the deadline are going through an adjustment period. Hawks are coasting a little but if that keeps them fresh for the playoffs then I am ok with it. Playoffs are a whole new season. Hawks will be a better playoff team and win the first round. word
O'Brien
March 26th, 2011
12:19 pm
Question for the blog.
If Josh would consistently play to his strengths (focus on defense, rebounding, filling the lane, and playing in the post), and change his attitude, would you then trade Horford or Josh?
Not Sund
March 26th, 2011
12:36 pm
If Josh would play the right way we wouldn’t need to trade Horford, instead we would be looking for finishing pieces to make us a legitimate contender. As the teams most dynamic player I think he makes the other players crazy with his decision making. Yes, I think Josh could be that good, that’s why he plays drives me to drink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfyFI-4ZsaE&feature=BF&list=MLGxdCwVVULXdYo83uFspHggbnqgz9mSNP&index=26
Damn Teague
March 26th, 2011
12:37 pm
@drmaryb Agreed!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
12:37 pm
WHAT WRONG WITH JOE? TEAGUE NOT STARTING.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
12:43 pm
Teague wake up everybody, but when he is not out there starting the hawks seen 2 drag there feet with no energy, joe need a guard that push the ball up court so he can run and score easily along with josh and horford, this why i feel josh should play the 3 and horford at the 4 so they can get out and run more.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man Man
March 26th, 2011
12:43 pm
Joe would get doubled if he would catch and shoot instead of catching and dribbling all the time.He is a bad ball handler.
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
12:54 pm
O’Brien i say you can keep josh, horford but coah LD have to play them 2 there strength, horford at 4 josh at 3 is there strength.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
12:56 pm
Jamal 10mill come of the books next year, can hawks get tyson chandler next year.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
12:59 pm
2011 STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, TYSON
BENCH HINRICH, DAMIEN, MARVIN, ZAZA, HILTON
RESERVE POWELL, COLLINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
MIKE BROWN OR BILL LAIMBEER COACH NEXT YEAR.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
drmaryb (*_-)
March 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
O’B
If Josh does all this, he could be that SF who doesn’t force outside shots in lieu of a better inside look. Then why trade either? Just add a big man and iron out that PG diema. We’re set with starters.
Build the bench and we can contend. We are still not that far off, but we have taken a step back with the coaching carousel. I remember Chris Webber describing Nellie-Ball as crazy. He would play 5 guards and one of them at Center and win! He would drive other teams crazy by making them match his crazy line ups. Chris said even he played Center.
The Hawks need an innovative coach to make this crazy roster work.
I’d rather see some Luxury Tax spending to get all the right pieces.
I could care less what it costs them? They owe us!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
1:15 pm
drmaryb i cosign
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rusty
March 26th, 2011
1:15 pm
What the hawks need the most is a real coach. They need a fast penetrating pg , I think jt can be that but will ld not playing him it’s hard to tell, I don’t think kh fits that bill. We need someone who will make this team run & not play that slow tempo half court game with nothing but jump shots.
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
1:16 pm
drmaryb WHO WOULD LIKE 2 COACH HAWKS NEXT YEAR ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
The Game Has Changed
March 26th, 2011
1:18 pm
@Salvador-The Hawks have money. Its up to them if they want to spend. Phillips Arena is paid for. They have much loot to work for. Our payrole is aroudn 65-70million. If they want to go over the cap to bring in more talent and more butts in the seats then thats what they need to do. Signing Shaq would have increased attendance by 20%. Not to mention adding about 10 more games in the win column. So signing Joe has nothing to do with bringing in more talent. They didnt even want to pay Shaq 5 million.
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dK1-PIXoA
SALVADOR
March 26th, 2011
1:42 pm
The Game Has Changed,
I AM WITH YOU 100%!!!!!
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
1:43 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex34K8trUAE
joey
March 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
23
darrell starks
March 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGmu_9PBj90
northcyde
March 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
Darrell . . you do know why that 2003 Detroit team made that big of a turnaround, right? I know you want to give Laimbeer most, if not all of the credit . . but the biggest reason for the turnaround, was Karl Malone’s daughter, Cheryl Ford.
They went from a team that didn’t have a center or a low post presence whatsoever . . to a team that added the best rebounding “big woman” in the game, who could also score on the low block. Her addition transformed that team offensively, enabling them to take on some of the more elite teams like a LA Sparks or Houston Comets. They were always solid defensively, but now, they could compete offensively. And back then, Swin Cash was playing damn near like young Grant Hill, with her all-around game.
So what we REALLY NEED, is to add a center like that to the Hawks . . or have Horford play like a dominant big man who will lead the league in rebounding, while getting his offensively in the paint.
Worldwide Clyde
March 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
FIRE ASG
FIRE SUND
FIRE LD
northcyde
March 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
The problem this season with JJ, is that this offense seems to believe that everybody can be a scoring threat, much like the Celtics of a few years ago. That was Drew’s intent with the new offense. To have
Worldwide Clyde
March 26th, 2011
2:07 pm
The problem with JJ is that he really doesn’t want to be here.
atlgent
March 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
drmaryb (*_-) and Najeh Davenpoop,
It is such a pleasure to read your posts. I normally SMH at may of the idiotic post which ask for centers out of thin air and trades involving superstar players on other teams for bench players on ours….WTF
I just wonder how much overall basketball knowledge, including the business side of the sport, some posters possess!
atlgent
March 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
“many of the idiotic posts” I meant
Worldwide Clyde
March 26th, 2011
2:24 pm
atlsimp instead of atlgent
sam'l
March 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
I will admit this. The exact same *%$@* that went on with Woodson is going on with Drew. Which means a large part of the problem is walking around in a Hawks jersey possibly hung over and wondering how to spend his millions.
The blog is fun and perhaps real friends can be made on ths blog…..okay, all well and good.
But a sale is the only thing that makes any sense……The Hawks were dressed up for a sale and their value does not keep going up and up like it used to….so the “real estate value” is gone.
We know this team could win a first round this year, but it isn’t going to happen. The team is gonna be sold and it’s probably gonna move. So teague for Hinrich and joe johnson’s millions and josh smith’s horrible/brilliant performances and the great curse of Woodson coming back to haunt the Hawks is all pretty much passe. The team lacked brains and humility and it’s pretty much over. .
They don’t stand for what the fans respect, guts and fight and creativity and pride…..not knocking down some player in a fit of anger….pride in sealing off the basket and running screens and knocking away passes.
. When it finally sinks in, some of these players and hopefully Gearon…., they MIGHT shed a tear or two in sadness……for what could have been.
So MC, are you hot on the sale rumors? You’ve only got the biggest paper in town on your side….do yourself a favor and call Mike Fratello….He sounds like he knows the score…..
.
atlgent
March 26th, 2011
2:45 pm
lol @ Worldwide Clyde…..
not saying that others don’t create great posts, those 2 along with northcyde are very passionate aout the Hawks but also look at things from a realistic point of view. The team is what it is! There are great pieces and not so great pieces. Some of the pieces do outstanding things from time to time but also knuckleheaded and off the wall things..i.e Josh Smith. But one thing that you can not say about Josh is that he isn’t passionate about the sport and is not a tremendous ASSET to the team. We should not wat to rid ourselves of Josh but effort a way to find a coach to centrally focus his talents. JJ is an asset. Horford is and asset but he has toWANT to bang like a Center instead of be passive i the aint ala Dirk Nowitzi (sp). He is nowhere near the offensive talent as Dirk so he should not FINESSE his paint game. That FINESSE is also possibly affecting defense because he has gotten soft as of late. Everyone else except Wilkins is expendable but, if their games can be reigned in, could be an asset if coached properly.
As I said in another blog, there are no specialists on this squad, therefore there is no accountability from game to game.
northcyde
March 26th, 2011
2:55 pm
The most telling thing to me about JJ’s game this season, is that the offense doesn’t play to his strengths anymore.
When you look at a player’s career, you want to look for trends, and throw out statistical anomalies. The 48% from 3 that JJ shot back in his last year in Phoenix as a catch and shoot guy, has to be looked at as a statistical anomaly. He is NOT that good of a 3 point shooter. Not even close. Take out that year, and he’s basically an average and borderline schizophrenic 3 point shooter.
What he is, is a decent midrange shooter off the dribble or via catch and shoot . . . a very good passer and ballhandler . . . a big guard with a good post game . . . and a guy who is crafty enough to get his own shot off and make it.
But this offense in the first few months, had JJ playing an almost Ray Allen like role on this team. While he got better wide open looks from the perimeter, especially from 3, he wasn’t playing to his strengths.
In January, he did play more to his strengths, even though he only shot 35% from three. But he was far more aggressive in getting into the paint, and the midrange jumper started falling. He was also getting up around 20 shots a game.
The statistics show that the shot JJ needs to be looking to take the most, is the floater. Get him the ball in that 15 – 18 foot area, and see if he can get within 10 feet of the rim to shoot the floater. Or post him up, and let him work against the smaller guard.
Also, having the ball in his hands and letting him take an even contested midrange jumper, is a better play than letting him take a 3 pointer. Like Smith, he really shouldn’t even be shooting that shot this year, especially not at a 4 to 5 three point attempts per game clip. And if he misses 2 in a row, he should abandon it altogether.
I wouldn’t have a problem running offense through Horford or Smith, if they actually ran the offense from the low block or even the high post. But when that happens, they also have to be able to create their own shot and make it.
Because since neither guy can efficiently create their own shot in that situation ( Smith is actually better than this than Horford ), teams can simply play both guys straight up, while still keeping their attention on JJ without the ball.
In the end, you can’t have a guy that you look toward to lead your team offensively, taking 16 shots a game. Not on this team with the limited offensive players we have.
We are NOT Boston or Phoenix. Most of these guys need to be set up in order to make a shot. And they don’t shoot the jumper well enough to even rely on that all the time. Without someone who can score down on the block, it’s important to keep the ball in the hands of a guy who can set up others for shots.
If that guy is Hinrich or Teague, then they need to do this when on the floor. But even those two are more of the combo scoring guard nature, than a true PG.
With the way this team is set up, the ball has to be in JJ’s hands and he needs to be looking to score the basketball in the areas he’s most comfortable in.
Can’t run a motion offense with schizophrenic jumpshooters. And everybody with the exception of Horford and Hinrich ( even though what he’s doing so far here is a statistical anomaly ) is a schizophrenic jumpshooter.
It’s just crazy how this season has gone.
- JJ is taking almost 2 less shots per game, scoring less, and can’t hit a 3 consistently
- Smith will take 150+ threes this year, after only taking 7 threes total last year
- Al has found his niche as a catch and shoot guy, at the expense of him scoring in the post, which still leaves us deficient of post scoring.
- Jamal is back to being a player that I always despised. Speaking of statistical anomalies, last year was his anomaly.
- Marvin is having almost the exact same year that he did last year.
- Teague is in a “doghouse” unlike any other player in Hawks history.
- And we had our last losing month right before Bibby joined the Hawks, but had our first losing month in 3 years immediately after he left. If it doesn’t turn around, we can officially label this “The Curse of Mike Bibby”.
northcyde
March 26th, 2011
3:12 pm
@ atlgent . . . that’s a good point you made about “specialists”. We really don’t have one.
- a defensive lockdown defender? . . People say that’s Damien, but the numbers say otherwise. But he’s the closest.
- a 3 point specialist? . . . Hinrich? But dang, he’s the PG.
- the energy guy? . . . People want that to be Teague
- the fierce rebounder? . . . Zaza maybe ( on the offensive boards )
It’s kind of the reason why I wish that Drew would consider starting Teague and Zaza, with JJ, Smith, and Horford. I don’t particularly like Smith being at SF, but he has handled playing that better than what I thought he would. But to start halves, I would rather Teague and Zaza be playing with our better players, than to bring them off the bench and look to them to do more than what they’re capable of.
Drew is going to have to find a combination that will sustain the Hawks for the ENTIRE game. Too often, we have a bad mix out on the court for maybe a 4 minute stretch, that sees this team look like absolute garbage.
You got 3 weeks to find a combo that works Larry.
O'Brien
March 26th, 2011
3:18 pm
northcyde,
All the Hawks have done is overpay to keep their players. I have not seen any serious attempt to bring in the right role players.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 26th, 2011
3:27 pm
“The 48% from 3 that JJ shot back in his last year in Phoenix as a catch and shoot guy, has to be looked at as a statistical anomaly. He is NOT that good of a 3 point shooter. Not even close. ”
You give Steve Nash and Mike D’Antoni too little credit. Joe is not the only player who put up much better numbers from 3 playing in that system — look at Shawn Marion and Channing Frye for example, or even Shawne Williams now with the Knicks.
In any case, as Joe gets older he is going to have to make adjustments to his game. If you ask me, the guy whose game he has to start emulating as he gets older is Paul Pierce, who despite having below average explosiveness has steadily become a more reliable jump shooter as he has gotten older, to compensate for the fact that his body can’t take the punishment of 11-12 trips per game to the free throw line. Joe already can’t get to the line, so the least he can do is become a deadly shooter from outside so as to provide him more avenues to score as he gets older. I don’t think it is asking too much for him to, you know, work on his game and continue to get better, given the investment the Hawks have made in him.
I MUS WRITE
March 26th, 2011
3:36 pm
How is it that our PF and C are shooting better from the outside than our PG/SG? Yet some people complain,Put your enery into -Why has Joe played so poorly this year? Why is jamal less effective under LD vs Woodson. Why doesnt teague get minutes instead of DNPs?.Why am I drinking moscato at 3 in the evening? If god had a name what would it be? Who killed Jimmy Hoffa and Biggie Smalls? Y do u blow your hot breath on food to cool it? Does counting sheep really make u sleepy. How is it that sum of the most powerful men in the world homosexual (adolf hitler Julius ceasar)- No gay basher here…..Why is it raining and i want to be out doors. Y is afrojack ft.eva simmons -take over control -the hottest house ive heard all year.
I would give Josh a C+ as a post player -i think he becomes less effective solely playing in the post.. If we could get him to tae half of his shots down there great but i dont see it happening in this jump shot happy offense.
drmaryb (*_-)
March 26th, 2011
3:49 pm
Coach ‘Em Up!
darrell starks
I like Jeff Van Gundy to coach my Hawks..
I’ll never forget the little guy hanging onto Alonzo Mourning’s leg, like a flea flicker, in a play off series where Dennis Rodman got under Zo’s skin, (I believe Dennis grabbed his junk).
Man, little Van Gundy flew in there and coach was riding Zo’s leg like it was a mechanical bull! Classic stuff for real. We need a coach who will fight for a win and be that team leader and button pusher to motivate these soft personalities and keep Josh on the inside.
I really don’t mind Josh taking a few threes, within the context of the games. Sort of like Rasheed Wallace and Chris Webber did.
What bothers me about Mr. Drew is his refusal to play Teague, whatsoever. From what I have seen, Jeff is a good and humble kid who possesses a really good attitude. Besides, we are thirsty for a PG. Why not see what we got before we go on a shopping spree?
drmaryb (*_-)
March 26th, 2011
4:11 pm
Secret Admirer!
atlgent, thank you Sir, for the shout out. I must admit I rather enjoy your posts as well. Najeh is one of my huge favorites. Najeh communicates on a very high level and leaves out all the emotional stuff.
I’m not real high on emotional outbursts myself, but sure do enjoy a good laugh and a few low jabs below the belt does me just fine.
I love a good ole’ cat fight now and then. I fight dirty! LOL!
It’s all about the fun though and Hawks Basketball, of course.
jhan
March 26th, 2011
4:12 pm
The Game Has Changed – how would Shaq’s broken down ass equated to 10 more wins? He couldn’t keep healthy in Boston when they only needed spot minutes from him. A young healthy Shaq maybe – but not the current version of him.
DWBaller
March 26th, 2011
4:33 pm
Trade him (or Marvin) to Minnesota for Anthony Randolph. Have Randolph compete with Josh Smith. Joe is not getting it done. Keep paying the salary if you have to do it. Need more moves but it sends a message you want to win and nobody is safe!
Booo!
March 26th, 2011
4:41 pm
All of these posts are just further advocation for the three guard lineup of Teaue, Kirk, and Joe.
JJ is in a slump and needs the backcourt responsibilities taken off of him for a while so he can foucus soley on scoring and getting back into a rythym.
Also, JJ is no PP. Pual is shorter than JJ but Paul has pretty much an unguardable post-up jumper. JJ’s release point is much lower than guys like Pierce and kobe. Actually Joe has a comparable release point to Durant, but Durant has FIVE inches on JJ so its a moot point. Though, I do beleive JJ can thrive at the Small forward position simply because he will get more spot-up oppourtinities(a la marvin) with Kirk and Teague in the backcourt alongside him.
Booo!
March 26th, 2011
4:43 pm
I also beleive that Kirk is more suited for the SG spot than Joe because of the fact that he doesn’t hesistate to shoot. All he needs is a sliver of daylight and he will let it fly, which is what you want out of your shooting guard. Oh, and he plays a little D unlike Jamal.
drmaryb (*_-)
March 26th, 2011
4:45 pm
ICONIC BLOGGER’s LIST!
Psyche! I ran this list last year and like a Grammy Winner?
I left off too many names. I’m too start to go down that road again.
I had forgotten to mention “worldwide clyde” among many others.
I will say this though, between The Hawks Blog featuring MC and
The Fan’s Nest featuring Blu-Ray, we have the best bloggers in the world.
I’ve seen other fan blogs and we have no competition whatsoever.
By the time I go back and forth with MC’s people, I have little to no time left to visit other blogs due to work. But, I enjoy the personal converstions between the bloggers more than anything else though.
Booo!
March 26th, 2011
4:54 pm
northcyde,
Im feelin’ that lineup with Teague and Zaza in it.