Atlanta Hawks: Ten deep thoughts
Ten random off-day thoughts, which means my rotation is deeper than the Hawks’ . . .
- It’s dang near April and I still can’t tell you who’s in or out of L.D.’s rotation. He played seven guys last night on a back-to-back against an energetic opponent a few days after he lamented his team’s nagging injuries. Two guys who didn’t play, Teague and Damien, are healthy and energetic. They can defend, too, which the post–trade Hawks now don’t do well at all. I don’t understand why they didn’t play.
- I don’t know for certain if Teague is a bona fide NBA rotation player. But I think he’s shown enough to get a chance to prove it on this team. And I know for certain he’s one of only two point guards on this roster and the other guy is more of a combo guard. I don’t understand why Teague doesn’t have a regular role. Sorry, there’s nothing else to explain it but coach’s decision.
- I watched Smoove score on a nice right-handed spin move against the 76ers. It was so impressive. Josh is a smart player (yes, he is) when focused and engaged. He could be a load to deal with on the block for most fours if he put his mind to it. I don’t understand why he doesn’t. Or hasn’t.
- The Sixers were the latest opponent to send aggressive double teams at J.J. Opponents did the same even during his awful start to the season. And yet they sometimes seem almost OK with Al stepping out for mid range Js (at least when he’s not being ignored by his teammates). I don’t understand any of this.
- Accountability can be a tricky thing for L.D. His options are limited. His five-time All-Star and Sixth Man Ward winner are inefficient and unproductive. Drew can direct some of their shots to Al (or at least try to and good luck with that) but then who else? If Joe and Jamal continue to struggle, does he give their minutes to Damien and Teague? If Josh keeps bad shooting jumpers, does L.D. yank him and play Al alongside Zaza or Twin?
- Those last two moves would mean increasing the roles of inferior players. Then again, if Drew were to take such bold action it might finally send that elusive message of accountability to the team. And then if the team struggles because L.D. was forced to take such drastic steps, he could credibly go to Rick Sund and Co. and say: “I tried everything I could with this roster. It’s broken. Fix it.”
- All of that assumes that Sund and Co. would have L.D.’s back even if he did take such drastic action. They backed L.D. when they sent out Bibby for Hinrich. They didn’t when they gave him a two-year contract that pays relatively little. Woody had a similar problem when he had to coach this bunch in the final year of his deal. They knew he’d probably be gone before they would if things went badly and that’s how it went down.
- The Hawks’ average scoring margin for the first quarter is -0.3. It’s +0.3 for the second quarter, +1.0 for the third quarter and -1.4 for the fourth quarter. Only the third-quarter margin surprised me.
- I want to say the Nets offer the Hawks a respite from a tough schedule. But, hell, it might actually be a good chance for the Nets to win the season series.
- Will we ever get to actually see Pape Sy? At this point I want him to get in and suddenly go off for 20 just so my blog people will have some kind of hope.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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349 comments Add your comment
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
8:49 pm
MC STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, HILTON OR COLLINS
BENCH HINRICH, JAMAL, DAMIEN, MARVIN ZAZA
RESERVE POWELL COLLINS
This line up will win point blank period your balance with the rotation you have size in the paint and teague starting at point give the hawks energy and quickness.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
K-Dogg
March 24th, 2011
8:51 pm
Like i said i dont know if LD a good caoch or not as far as the NBA is concerned but as a coach you have to be able to make adjustments and try differnt things us going big or playing uptempo with AL and Josh at the 4 or 5 are givens to me and LD and Woddy would try this stuff but they would maybe try it for a half or a game and go back to what they do but to me you have to know sometimes i can coach a certain way but if what i got is not going to work with my stlye i will caoch this way. If you not going to start a true center play up tempo.. If you like to run sets and share the ball and set sceeens for back door or open jump shots play those players i just get tired of us playing half court and getting kilt on the boards. playing Josh sometimes at the 3 and not making him9and i do mean making him) post up smaller or slower guys then him!!! Naw man the more i think about it he got to go b/c he been around this the past couple of years so he should no better!!!!!!
The Game Has Changed
March 24th, 2011
8:53 pm
O’Brien- All Im saying is lets give him a chance. What if Sloan came in next year and we get put out the 1st Rd. Do we find another coach the following year? Ill admit, the way he is subing is crazy but he is deserves more than a year. Also, we cant put all the blame on him. We should have kept Woodson. How do you get rid of a coach that has increased the number of wins for five straight seasons? Bad move by the owners
Not Sund
March 24th, 2011
8:54 pm
Hey now, Sund is my folks!
Remember, Sund took over a team on the rise, he gave it three years and two coaches to prove itself.
Now the Sund is gonna create a team in his image. I’m looking for a three-peat within five years.
K-Dogg
March 24th, 2011
8:58 pm
The game has changed i agree i thought Woody got a raw deal i always said this team reached it celing!!!!
Mike is back
March 24th, 2011
9:02 pm
MC, great stuff…thanks for some therapy bro…it has been rough to watch LD vacillate as a HC.
AJ, said something that was very telling on Big Ray blog…I was already feeling it before he said it…hence my absent from the blog…I have become so dispirited with the coaching of LD…I have become disenchanted with NBA basketball.
Even when we had the 23 win season…it didn’t feel this bad…save for the Orlando series…under Woody’s tenure…the Hawks would always come back and fight…now they play like a bunch of chicken hearted losers.
It’s too painful for me to watch any other NBA team right know…knowing my Hawks…don went to hell in a hand basket…what a shame…six years of hard work by Woody…pissed away in one season by the BASG…daaaaaaaang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
9:04 pm
From Ken S
“The Hawks’ 7-14 record since Feb. 5 was the eighth worst in the NBA entering Thursday’s games. … ”
At least if we keep Drew, we will be in the lottery with a pretty good pick next season.
Hawks still knew how to win from the last 2 seasons, but it’s obvious as the season has progressed, we have done worse and worse.
Hey, next season, we may even set some kind of record for futility or something if LD stays.
I say get Mike Brown and be done with it. I think the guy can coach. He had the Cavs with LeBron a whole lot better record than the Heat have with LeBron, with a Dleague cast at Cleveland.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
9:08 pm
Also from Ken S. -
“General manager Rick Sund declined to comment Thursday on specifics of the team’s play or its coaching, as is his custom during the season.
“I thought we’d made a pretty good charge out of the slump, or were making headway out of the slump” after beating Portland and Milwaukee on March 12 and 15, he said. The team has lost four of five since then.”
Funny Sund mentioned the two games Teague started before LD started pulling him out of the rotation again.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
9:10 pm
Sund is slow and deliberate. Maybe he is making plans for life with the Hawks after LD.
I really think ASG/Sund is possible just waiting as long as possible to make the move to save money, and also see who fires a Coach we may be interested in, like Scott Skiles or something.
Not Sund
March 24th, 2011
9:16 pm
My thoughts as well SteveW.
I wouldn’t mind seeing this squad under the coaching of a strong guy who the players respect.
Jcard120
March 24th, 2011
9:21 pm
Anyone work for Redbull? If anyone needs wings it’s Joe Max. He used to be one of the most enjoyable players to watch the last two years. He used to be able to change games with his post up presence and his long range jumper. I saw when he hit five threes in a row, and it reminded me of when he took over games with his offense. Conversely, I remember when Smith and Horford were not talked about so much playing the 4 and 5 because they were in tune. Horford would pick up a defender outside the key, and Smith would provide support inside the ring with jump blocking. It just seems this season they don’t have the energy or drive to make other teams look bad. REMINDER: we pay money to go to games to watch you embarrass other teams.
-JC
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
9:40 pm
Just saw the Rhome – Horford interview. It looked bad to me. Al knows the ship is sinking.
And when asked if the meeting went the way Horford would have liked, he hesitatied, then said he got some feedback, and we gotta show it on the court. Sounded terrible.
Maybe that’s what JJ was referring to in his postgame comments about meetings etc. and just gotta show it on the court. Now JJ sounded mad the other night. Saw that interview as well
N.D.T.K.A.
March 24th, 2011
9:41 pm
Excellent article MC,
I think at this point it is obvious that LD leaving the Hawks, a new GM being brought in, and first and foremost new ownership with deep pockets and a commitment to this team are the best medicine for this illness.
One thought is JC2 should have been kept and JC1 or Marvin should have been shipped to Washington. Never should young unproven assets be shipped away especially with an incompetent coach in-house. Of course, I guess we all thought Drew would do an adequate job or at least attempt to play Teague.
Second, someone said earlier that maybe Joe should be moved, this might not be a bad idea if only for salary cap relief and the fact that Joe’s paycheck demands he be a leader on the team. This was mentioned on this blog when Joe signed his deal earlier this year. You don’t sign role players, Robins, sidekicks, or second-tier guys to max contracts. If Joe doesn’t want to lead this team and or put these guys on his shoulders then he needs to be moved, to he!! with his make-up!
Next after the season do not even entertain JC1 let him run not walk away from this team. Thank you for the SMOY but JC1 does not even no what defense is.
Keep your young components, especially Smoove, and I know that might sound crazy but I would be all in for Dwight Howard in 2012. Smoove and him are close friends and the guy is from ATL. Getting him would make me go by season tickets tomorrow!!!
I have moved on from this season’s Hawks and am looking forward to a bright future with new ownership, new management and a new coach!
myrak43
March 24th, 2011
9:42 pm
Hey MC, pull Joe Johnson to the side to tell him to recuit Micheal Redd and T-Mac and Tyson Chandler they are all unrestricted free agents. tell him to do it like boston did it a few years back. only if Redd is healthy, and I am hearing he is. check this out
Hell we can start our on big three with micheal Redd( I am hearing he is healthy) only if he is healthy and T-Mac to had with JJ. then we could get Someone like Nazr Mohammed, Dalembert, Przybilla to hold down the center spot. Maybe even Tyson Chandler would won’t to get in on the next team to sign some stars in the last few years like boston did it. All the players are unrestricted and can go where ever they want to go.
T-mac/ Teague
Redd/Kirk
JJ/Wilkens
Horford/Josh Smith
Tyson Chandler / Przybilla
Josh and Hoford spilt time at the four 50/50 with Smith playing about 5 minutes at the 3 and Horford 5 minutes at the 5.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
9:42 pm
Al looked like a guy who was trying to be diplomatic around tough questions. Almost lying, but you could tell it was the PC things to say, and maybe not what he thinks deep down inside.
Fundamentals
March 24th, 2011
9:43 pm
Face it, we’re lazy, our team has no real desire to be professional basketball players. They got their $$, they’re in the playoffs, they’re afraid to see if they truly can live up to expectations.
Drew never had and won’t regain control.
Teague has proven to me, a skeptic, that he deserves a shot.
Our players just don’t care enough to try. Season was over 3 weeks ago.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
9:44 pm
No way Cuban let’s Chandler get away from dallas I don’t think
But I’m all for minimum salaries for TMac and Redd. Redd should stay in Mil. and play for free a couple of years really though.
O'Brien
March 24th, 2011
9:45 pm
The Game has changed,
How do you keep a coach whose team quit on him? A coach who could not adjust when Orlando figured him out? A coach whose team got swept by an average of 25 ppg in the second round? A team who also got swept in the second round the previous season.
I dont think Woody was the ONLY problem, because the players are grown men, and should be professional, but instead they quit on Woody. So in addition to firing Woody, Rick should have traded somebody to shake the team up.
As for losing in the first round, that is not the issue (imo). if the hawks were playing well, and just lost to a better team in the first round, so be it. but the team has underachieved, and so has LD.
However, just like last year, the coach is not the ONLY problem. Therefore, in additon to firing LD, I think the ASG should let Rick go, and the new GM should make a couple trades to shake up the team, because are to blame as well.
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
9:48 pm
SteveW i have forgotten about mike brown i like him 2,
between mike brown and bill lambeer would be my choice for the hawks next coach.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
slimjr
March 24th, 2011
9:54 pm
“JCII 28 points 10 assists.”
SAY WHAT?????????????????????????????????????????????
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????????????????????????????????
SUND GAVE UP WHAT FOR THE HEIMLICH MANEUVER???????? JUST RUN AND JUMP OFF THAT LARGE STONE ON THE EAST SIDE OF TOWN SUND. SHOOT…………………………………
Not Sund
March 24th, 2011
10:02 pm
Whoever the next coach is he has to be a guy that has a contract that allows him to play the players who do the right thing.
The Spirit Group has to commit to someone and be willing to pay them.
We gotta get the coaching situation right first, then make some player personnel changes.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
10:03 pm
I didn’t feel this bad during the 13 win season. You knew improvement was coming. This is like watching a ship sinking.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
10:10 pm
Mike Brown:
“In 2000, Brown was hired by Gregg Popovich as an assistant coach with the San Antonio Spurs. While with the Spurs, Brown’s teams won at least 58 games each season. He also was the head coach for the Spurs’ summer league teams in Boston and Salt Lake City. After winning a championship with San Antonio in 2003, Brown was hired as associate head coach to Rick Carlisle with the Indiana Pacers. He helped lead Indiana to consecutive playoff appearances including a trip to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2004.
Mike Brown’s record as an assistant coach is 341–201 (.629).”
From Wikipedia
Playoff record is 42-29. Went to the Championship Series once, and I think the ECF’s twice.
Has some insane career winning %.
Did more with LeBron and nothing in Cleveland than Miami has, regular season wise anyhow.
Came from the Popovich school. Ok, get him Rick Sund and ASG.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
10:12 pm
Brown’s career winning % is .663 having a record of 272-138.
Indy is after him, get him while you can.
Adelman would be good also – word is Houston wants him out.
clancy
March 24th, 2011
10:12 pm
slimjr, at the risk of ruining your depression over Jordan Crawford with a few facts:
It was 25 points, and he took 28 shots to get them. A TS% of .420 is not good, no matter how many points you’ve put up. His points contributed per possessions used was only .74.
This was in 53 minutes, which on a per minute basis is slightly under 17 points per 36 minutes
Those 10 assists were accompanied by 7 TOs.
He’s getting a chance to play a lot. He’s not playing all that well.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
10:14 pm
Oops! Only went to the ECF’s once besides the NBA Finals year.
He still only 41 years old.
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
10:17 pm
I like that SteveW, what the info on bill lambeer as a women coach, i have watch him coach and this guy can coach, plus i guarantee if josh shot a 3 lambeer would not only body slam josh but make him ride the oak.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
slimjr
March 24th, 2011
10:18 pm
@clancy,
Thanks for the details Sir…
N.D.T.K.A.
March 24th, 2011
10:19 pm
Based on the write-up someone posted on this blog two days ago about the ASG and L.D.’s contract. I think if L.D. is canned and Rick Sund is retained and the ASG still own this team – Dwayne Casey will be the next Hawk’s coach. That alot of if’s though. Cheaper than a brand name coach, well thought of in coaching circles, and familiarity with Sund like Damien Wilkens.
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
10:20 pm
I HAVE SEEN MIKE BROWN CURSE OUT LEBRON BEFORE, I BELIEVE THATS WHAT MADE LEBRON THE PLAYER HE IS BECAUSE OF COACH MIKE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
March 24th, 2011
10:23 pm
” I think these players do genuinely like each other ”
— Michael Cunningham —
If true, then they as individuals:
* must not like themselves.
Not trusting themselves either:
* therefore they don’t trust each other.
* Psychology 101:::::by:::G-dad
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
10:26 pm
When we traded for Hinrich a month ago, our 1st round draft position was #24
Now it’s #19.
Not that LD would play anyone we drafted anyway
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
10:27 pm
Casey may be ok. In Indy, it’s evidently down to Casey and Brown for their vacancy last I heard.
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
10:33 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMiVs2SInCY
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
10:38 pm
HAWKS NEED 2 BRING BAD BOYS 2 THE ATL
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
March 24th, 2011
10:42 pm
G-dad’s Rebuilding Plan of the Day (step one)
LA Clippers get:
Joe -&- Josh
Hawks get:
Chris Kaman, Mo Williams, Eric Gordon, -&- Ryan Gomes
brigadierjerry
March 24th, 2011
10:48 pm
Grandad,
Good evening Sir. I saw a post of yours awhile back stating you was a Celtics fan until 1968. What made you change your team from the Celtics to the Hawks?
Not Sund
March 24th, 2011
10:52 pm
You making a good case in terms of stats for Brown but I’m stuck on this thing that the new coach has to be able to say sit yo a@@ down if you can’t play the right Josh Smith.
I also need someone who is going to clearly define rolls, we need consistancy from everybody and a big part of that is players knowing their rolls.
Addleman is a perfect example of the kind of coach I want. Also this team is at stage where it’s time to win, please no more low priced coaches, no more career assistants unless he is a Thibodeau clone.
darrell starks
March 24th, 2011
10:52 pm
LAIMBEER 2NBA TITLE
3WNBA TITLE AND THE GREATEST WNBA COACH IN HISTORY IF WIN 1 MORE TITLE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Myrak43
March 24th, 2011
10:56 pm
Grandad that rebuilding plan sux. we would not have anyone that can create his on shot. Mo is a catch and shot guy. Eric Gordon is pretty good, but not Josh Smith worthy. To add why should we totally rebuild and get some players that haven’t done chit.
Let’s start the BIG THREE to the “A” campaign. T-Mac, Redd, and JJ
Jae Evolution
March 24th, 2011
10:57 pm
Man this kid, Derrick Williams is some kind of beast, wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he went #1 in the draft this year.
Jae Evolution
March 24th, 2011
11:14 pm
This may sound crazy, but if we were able to get a 7″ long defensive C, move Al to PF where he wants to be, and a no nonsense HC. Would it be beneficial to move Josh Smith to the bench in a 6th man type role like Lamar Odom?
Not saying this will ever happen, but I think it would make us very deep if we were able to get rid of some of our scrubs and acquire quality players.
Also this would mean Jamal would have to go, he’s showing his streaky side again this season.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
11:22 pm
“He’s getting a chance to play a lot. He’s not playing all that well.”
Yes, but we are talking about a rookie here. Whether he’s playing efficiently right now is not the point as much as the fact that he is clearly showing that in time he can develop into a solid player.
With that said, the reason I wasn’t sweating losing Jordan is not that he wasn’t going to be good (I always liked his game) as much as it was that players like him (undersized 2-guards) are easy to find. I think the Hawks down the road will end up regretting giving away this year’s first rounder more than they regret giving away Jordan.
SteveW
March 24th, 2011
11:22 pm
My only drawbacks with Adelman:
“Adelman is widely regarded around the league as a “players’ coach”…. and is considered one of the more capable coaches in the NBA. However, he is sometimes criticized… for being too hands-off; some NBA observers….have suggested that Adelman’s teams are not as fundamentally sound as their opponents”
“Adelman’s coaching style is similar to the Princeton offense…”
From Wikipedia
I like Adelman – but after LD I’ve had enough of that type of coaching. .
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
11:24 pm
“This may sound crazy, but if we were able to get a 7″ long defensive C, move Al to PF where he wants to be, and a no nonsense HC. Would it be beneficial to move Josh Smith to the bench in a 6th man type role like Lamar Odom? ”
I don’t think that’s crazy at all. Smoove’s game is quite similar to Lamar Odom. Keep in mind, though, that the Lakers have the luxury of doing this because they have two players playing ahead of Odom who are better than him. Can the Hawks find a 7 foot center who is good enough to warrant bringing Smoove off the bench, and can Al justify this move by becoming more assertive on offense and developing a better back to the basket game? I think the part about Al can and eventually will happen, but finding that 7 footer is much easier said than done.
Ethan
March 24th, 2011
11:28 pm
When you look at Josh on paper everything looks great. But when you see his UNTIMELY plays, lends to one going gray early or uprooting what little hair they have left from the last five seasons of his 3-pointers with 4:00 left in the 4th that bricks, gets turned into a fast break for the opposition, and subsequently kills what little confidence the Hawks rarely muster. I dont see how you think Josh is a smart player AT ALL.
Without purpose and leadership to fulfill the intended goal, you are an aimless ship. Led by a first year guy that is manic at best with some of his coaching decisions. His erratic moves with the bench leave the moral low and good players confused. It promotes frustration instead of grooming and confidence building.
Not to mention all the teams around the Hawks made themselves better and we got Hinrich. Woopty frickin doo….
Im rooting for losses in the hopes that the team will finally be sold, or some drastic moves are made. Even if that means a couple of crappy years to re-think the whole strategy. But we all know what will happen…
Nothing.
Sleepy
March 24th, 2011
11:28 pm
Its pretty funny how basically demanding that Al and josh get more touches and now that they have basically failed that everyone wants to turn to JJ and jamal when they’ve basically given you what you asked for .
Fewer isos and giving the ball to Al and josh those two just arent the offensive juggernauts in the making that many of you were claiming them to be with simply more touches last summer.
Last year we went stagnant in the 4th at times but the energy level never wavered and JJ and Jamal wouldve went down shooting but it wouldve been a 5-7 pt loss not a 20+ point loss .
Woody ran too many isos but he made certain to get our best offensive players going and then trusted them to make good decisions and get others involved and the majority of the time they did it well enough for us to win 50+ games .
This year we have JJ and Jamal basically watching the game at the start of the 4th quarter as we seem to call everyone elses number and then cross our fingers that they can do something. I certainly didnt feel that way last year you could at least anticipate that JJ or jamal was going to strong together a few baskets or timely passes and we would pull it out.
I feel like now JJ and jamal are standing around waiting on someone to call off this Al and Josh are offensive anchors experiment like we can go through them every game. We are over 60 games in and it seems as though they are waiting on the coach to say okay this simply aint working and to simplify the game again for Josh,Al and the team .
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
11:30 pm
@SteveW…yep…exactly my take on Al’s interview. posted it earlier in the day…immediately after seein’ it. th emost tellin’ thing was his reply yo JM’s question about the team meetin’. it ain’t good in Hawksville…PERIOD!!! KA BOOM!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
11:33 pm
I have felt for three years now that an offense similar to what the Kings ran with Webber and Divac would benefit Smoove and Al greatly, so Adelman would be the kind of coach that I think would help this team. Keep in mind, it’s not LD’s offensive scheme that is the problem as much as his inability to hold his players to that scheme. Even now, I think LD’s knowledge of X’s and O’s and his scheme in general is a good one. He just doesn’t have the juice to hold his players accountable to run his scheme, which is why we haven’t really seen the Hawks run motion since early in the season.
Adelman has had success everywhere he has gone. I think the concerns over him being too hands off or whatever are overblown.
I definitely don’t agree with the implication that since Woody had more success with these players than LD (at least to this point) the Hawks should go back to a defensive coach who doesn’t give a sh-t about offense. Going with a coach who has a sound offensive scheme was and is a good plan. Going with a coach who was already an assistant on this team and had no head coaching experience, in hindsight, was a bad plan.
Not Sund
March 24th, 2011
11:35 pm
I hear ya on Adeleman and I wasn’t saying him per’se, but someone with a track record of winning even though he hasn’t won a ring as a HC.