Atlanta Hawks: Ten deep thoughts
Ten random off-day thoughts, which means my rotation is deeper than the Hawks’ . . .
- It’s dang near April and I still can’t tell you who’s in or out of L.D.’s rotation. He played seven guys last night on a back-to-back against an energetic opponent a few days after he lamented his team’s nagging injuries. Two guys who didn’t play, Teague and Damien, are healthy and energetic. They can defend, too, which the post–trade Hawks now don’t do well at all. I don’t understand why they didn’t play.
- I don’t know for certain if Teague is a bona fide NBA rotation player. But I think he’s shown enough to get a chance to prove it on this team. And I know for certain he’s one of only two point guards on this roster and the other guy is more of a combo guard. I don’t understand why Teague doesn’t have a regular role. Sorry, there’s nothing else to explain it but coach’s decision.
- I watched Smoove score on a nice right-handed spin move against the 76ers. It was so impressive. Josh is a smart player (yes, he is) when focused and engaged. He could be a load to deal with on the block for most fours if he put his mind to it. I don’t understand why he doesn’t. Or hasn’t.
- The Sixers were the latest opponent to send aggressive double teams at J.J. Opponents did the same even during his awful start to the season. And yet they sometimes seem almost OK with Al stepping out for mid range Js (at least when he’s not being ignored by his teammates). I don’t understand any of this.
- Accountability can be a tricky thing for L.D. His options are limited. His five-time All-Star and Sixth Man Ward winner are inefficient and unproductive. Drew can direct some of their shots to Al (or at least try to and good luck with that) but then who else? If Joe and Jamal continue to struggle, does he give their minutes to Damien and Teague? If Josh keeps bad shooting jumpers, does L.D. yank him and play Al alongside Zaza or Twin?
- Those last two moves would mean increasing the roles of inferior players. Then again, if Drew were to take such bold action it might finally send that elusive message of accountability to the team. And then if the team struggles because L.D. was forced to take such drastic steps, he could credibly go to Rick Sund and Co. and say: “I tried everything I could with this roster. It’s broken. Fix it.”
- All of that assumes that Sund and Co. would have L.D.’s back even if he did take such drastic action. They backed L.D. when they sent out Bibby for Hinrich. They didn’t when they gave him a two-year contract that pays relatively little. Woody had a similar problem when he had to coach this bunch in the final year of his deal. They knew he’d probably be gone before they would if things went badly and that’s how it went down.
- The Hawks’ average scoring margin for the first quarter is -0.3. It’s +0.3 for the second quarter, +1.0 for the third quarter and -1.4 for the fourth quarter. Only the third-quarter margin surprised me.
- I want to say the Nets offer the Hawks a respite from a tough schedule. But, hell, it might actually be a good chance for the Nets to win the season series.
- Will we ever get to actually see Pape Sy? At this point I want him to get in and suddenly go off for 20 just so my blog people will have some kind of hope.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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349 comments Add your comment
PMC
March 24th, 2011
3:09 pm
Pretty big caveat: Focused and Engaged.
One would think, being able to play in the NBA and make more money than about 90% of the population would be enough. Even if “winning” weren’t enough motivation.
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
3:12 pm
@PMC…yep…the ’smart’ ones are.
aspiring Hawks Fan
March 24th, 2011
3:19 pm
Wouldn’t pick and pop situations work great with like a JJ/Horford, JJ/Smoove situation or just add JC in place of JJ. I see so many teams run this and we have more athleticism and jump shooting than they do. Also, I do not think it would be that hard to implement.
As being a newbie without jaded eyes to the team. The problem is clearly coaching as from being in other cities and watching a ton of basketball, the team has alot of talent but there is not accountability and the players are not being used to their strengths. Furthermore, I do no feel the personality of the coach is a good fit. No inspiration.
Probably a nice guy but I cannot understand why ASG and Sund would just sit around and not do anything about it. It does not take a genius to see that not only the team is going in the wrong direction but that the coach has clearly lost his players confidence in him and now they are turning on each other.
Just a thought but has Nique ever thought about coaching the team? As a commentator, though he tries to stay positive, he seems to do it tongue and cheek and always comments on things he sees before they actually happen. I am speaking in terms of a short term replacement on the spot as something has to be done.
This is not a slump, this is a total disconnect.
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
3:19 pm
i can’t wait to see how the DASG handles their dilemma this summer. the only chance they have of havin’ ANY kinda fanbase is wholesale changes ay HC and the roster. yet they don’t have the cash to do so. i hope they are all in prayer for a buyer ASAP. anyway…KA BOOM!!!
lewis
March 24th, 2011
3:21 pm
Stinger for HC
Astro Joe
March 24th, 2011
3:29 pm
mykhalc, with the likely labor unrest, they won’t have to worry about anything until the new CBA is signed. I found it interesting that they included a clause in LD’s contract in case of a lockout… they are treating him like some type of employee who is not quite a player and not quite management.
Booo!
March 24th, 2011
3:38 pm
Marvin is a wuss who passes up shots. He never had to earn his starting spot, it was just handed to him.The only reason he was playing more assertive is because he doesn’t want to get benched again. But thats not even enough to motivate him anymore. He went back to his old self in the second half agains Philly last night.
Drew makes me sick! The Teague/Kirk/Joe/Josh/Al starting lineup had so much promise, but Larry just threw it away like a dirty diaper. I’m starting to think he has mental issues -_-
mountain_jim
March 24th, 2011
3:39 pm
LD has worn out his welcome with me. Teage and Damien should be starting until some other players wake up.
I hope they can afford to eat his 2nd year, because I feel they need to get rid of him more than blow up the team. Well Sund already blew 2 year’s first round draft choices for a PG rental. After overpaying everyone he kept. Get rid of him and LD.
Willy
March 24th, 2011
3:40 pm
Every time I see DNP beside Teague’s name I think DNC (does not compute).
O'Brien
March 24th, 2011
3:41 pm
MC,
Why is it that LD and management seem to be a step behind fans?
Last year, most fans said Woody is only a part of the problem, the roster was in need of a shakeup, and Woody’s 6 year assistant is not the different voice that’s needed. But Rick and the ASG decided that Woody was the problem, and that LD could fix it.
From January, fans were getting on Bibby for his declining play (not making shots, and horrible defense, and we wanted more PT for Teague). LD continued to trot him out there (refusing to play Teague), until Rick finally traded Bibby. And now LD refuses to play Teague.
Fans were saying Damien should have gotten some of Mo’s PT (Mo is not a SF), but LD refused, until finally Rick traded Mo. And now we see Damien can be a good bench contributor.
Could you ask LD why he insists on playing Jamal at backup PG, when he is not good at initiating the offense, or defending other PGs? (Actually, he is not good at defending anybody).
Rev in Tampa
March 24th, 2011
3:55 pm
MC,
I’m sure you’ve left the blog for the day as is your custom and right. However, I wanted to thank you for giving a little extra attention to the blog-people today. We needed the TLC after the last several days. It was very “pastoral” We are becoming embittered which is not healthy for any of us. Keep up the good work.
By the way, does Big Ray have press credentials? We understand that you have a job to do and relationships to foster with the management and players to get your inside scoop, but Big Ray has no such limitations. We would like to send him in to open up a big can of *&%@ and beat an answer out of Drew on why he is doing what he is doing.
If that plan doesn’t work can you sneak JeJe and Slimjr into the locker room?
jon
March 24th, 2011
3:56 pm
Nobody cares anymore…. Their not committed, why should we? You can’t tell me their playing 120% NO WAY!
Dwayne
March 24th, 2011
3:58 pm
Fire Drew. Get the Hawks a good coach . He’s not ready for the pro’s.Start looking at free agency for next year. Get a Center.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
MsDee
March 24th, 2011
4:00 pm
LOL..Rev in Tampa, watch yo (typing) language!!
slimjr
March 24th, 2011
4:04 pm
“and YES, Marvin IS as bad as HE PLAYS…PERIOD!!!” I co-sign……….
That dude is D-League role/ bench material
MsDee
March 24th, 2011
4:04 pm
I feel the same way I felt last season around this time when Woody was giving games away and running the starters to the ground..I wanted the team to continue to lose so Woody would be gone. Now I’m feeling the same about LD. Let the team continue to look bad, lose their 5th place to the 76ers, and continue to lose their fans at home so that the ASG and Sund MUST MAKE SOME COACHING AND PLAYER CHANGES. There is no way THIS same team will be here next season, JUST NO POSSIBLE WAY!!!
HB
March 24th, 2011
4:09 pm
Hawks SUCK……time to find a new coach and a new roster…..start from scratch
slimjr
March 24th, 2011
4:11 pm
Do not expect any surprises from the ASGeemen! They have lost 130 million with the lousy Thrashers!!!
In two years the Hawks will be out of the playoff picture…………………
Rev in Tampa
March 24th, 2011
4:11 pm
By the way, those ideas about press credentials and JeJe and Slimjr are not original to me. Najeh, I think, posted something like this several days ago.
slimjr
March 24th, 2011
4:12 pm
Josh and his pride need to find a new City…
MsDee
March 24th, 2011
4:15 pm
Folks, it just dawn on me, maybe the reason Teague isn’t getting consistant minutes is b/c everytime he has a break-out game, afterwards, he walks pass LD’s office and saids,”See a-hole, thats’ why you should play me more!” Well, of course, I dont know if he may have said those EXACT words, but words, no doubt, is being said to LD from Teague cause there HAS to be a reason for Teague to STILL be in the doghouse, esp after LD has had very HIGH hopes for Teague in the beginning of the season. I’m sure Teague isn’t no ‘angel’!
W.R.Terrell
March 24th, 2011
4:19 pm
To even engage in the thought that Josh Smith is smart is ludicrous. You are saying that a smart man launches jumper after jumper and the majority are ineffective and he continues to launch. A smart man does not cry like a baby everytime he gets fouled wanting a free throw. A smart man gives the ball up to the point guard instead of trying to make a fantastic play which by the way becomes a letdown for the team. A smart man would realize the stupidity in going 0 for 9 and STOP launching silly shots. A smart man would realize that he should play within himself. A smart man would put the team ahead of his own selfish ass interest and a smart man would not continually look as stupid as Josh Smith does nightly, looking for the OK if that was a good shot from his mentor LD. and a smart man would enhance the players around him. Josh Smith is none of those, he is more or less a player with a low basketball IQ that’s getting paid to pretend he’s a professional basketball player. Does he have talent? Yes he has talent, which is useless as we saw the other night, 30 points and dumb play after dumb play.
longtime Hawks fan
March 24th, 2011
4:20 pm
The players always have an excuse after the game that sounds like “we don’t know what happened”, but I can tell you that everyone, including his teammates, shudders when Smoov pulls up for jumpers….he WILL NOT LISTEN, even to himself! I say trade ‘em all except Al, because he appears to me to be the only one who is thoroughly disgusted when he loses.
Swingman912
March 24th, 2011
4:20 pm
Against the Bulls, Teague came in after the score was completely out of hand, and he led the team in scoring. If I’m not mistaken he may have scored EVERY FREAKIN POINT in the 4th qtr. Tell me again why he got a DNP-DD(Did not play- drew’s decision, or Dummy’s decision. I prefer the latter)? Yes he’s young, and he’s gonna make mistakes. But it’s best to get those mistakes out of the way with real playing time. If not, he’ll get in the game after an injury to a starter or a rotation player and not be ready. He’s shown his capapbilities, and earned time. I was in denial for a while, but now i know Drew does not have a clue.
In other news, Jordan Crawford had ANOTHER 20+ point game last night. Off the bench. The same bench he spent the majority of his time on with the Hawks, just in another city. There’s only 1 guard on our team that isn’t 30 years old( the beginning of the end, unless you have Ray Allen’s stroke) and that Teague(see first paragraph). Jamal Crawford had 10pts last night, but thats no longer surprising. He’s 30 i think, and he’s NOT the player we saw last year. Maybe its age, maybe the contract situation, who knows. Opinion of my fellow bloggers….Did we trade the wrong Crawford? Both are scoring guards, both have absolutely no fear taking shots, both have been known to be limited defenders. The only difference is thier Height, and age. Why not take a shot with the younger one who could possibly grow into something rather than going with the older one who WAS something? Oh yeah, he’s a young guard and Woody, LD, FFFF it, the Hawks organization doesnt play young guards. The let them sit on the bench…..Might as well let Papae Sy get some burn, cuz this season is all but over. Not looking forward to the playoffs at all. We’ll be playing the Magic, unless the Sixers keep playing like they have been, then we’ll get the Heat. Either way, put a bow on it. It’s a wrap…….CHUUUUUUUUCH
Booo!
March 24th, 2011
4:21 pm
MC I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU!
Ahem:
MC, would it be out of line for you to ask the players how they feel about coach Larry Drews rotations (the constant changing)? More importantly, how the players feel about Jeff Teagues minutes and his ability (or lack thereof) to impact the game. Do they belive him game-by-game minute fluctuations are do to the fact that he is not capable of playing at an NBA level? If that’s not the case, then why do they beleive he is not being given a respectable oppoutinity to contribute to the ballclub on a consistant baisis? Also how they felt Jeff did as a starter and if they feel he would be successful in that role? How did the players feel about the three guard lineup with Teague, Kirk, and Joe?
Also could you remind JJ about his comments days after the trade where he stated that now Teague wouldn’t have to worry about being yanked when he made on of his RARE mistakes and he could just “play his game”. In hindsight, does JJ still feel that this is the case? Does he feel that Teague is an important piece to the team that could propel them farther if given significant minutes?
Ask the players how they felt about getting torched by Derrick Rose and if they belive Jeff could have alliviated some of that pressure and made the game easier for everyone.
Ask Horford at what point does he pull a Kobe Bryant (feom the 07-08 season) and demand that either the front office shows signs that they want to win by improving the roster and not pinny pinching or he heads for greener pastures. At what point does Horford start to call his teammates out with no remorse? Horford had five more years here, if Jamal is not resigned (it is not likely that we can afford him at this point) and his replacement having been shipped off, there looks to potentially be a significant hole in our bench next season. How does big Al feel about this, and does he have faith in our management to address these issues. Does Al think our management is doing all that they can? The ASG are now looking for buyers for the Thrashers, does Horford think that the ASG’s inability to afford the Thrashers is having any effect on their ability to provide significant backup support for himself and his teammates (baisically Good bench players to support our captains).
I know have probably already asked Josh this, but ask him “if the opposing team’s gameplan is to keep you out of the paint at all costs because you are a force down there, then why do you let them off of the hook by settling for jumpers when you could be dunking on their bigs and getting them into fould trouble?”
“Josh, you have stated yourself in the past that it is not necessary for you to shoot jumpers because we have guys on this team who are better at it, not only that, but it is their JOB to shoot them. Whereas, yor job is to dominate the painted area. Do you feel that Larry Drew’s gameplan/schemes take you away from your strengths (posting up/ attacking the basket) at times, or is that you just need to make a more concerted effort to be a force down there like you have in the last few games?”
MC, can you ask Joe, what he belives he can do to improve his game in general? Ask him Why he has a hard time drawing fouls unlike other superstars and what he belives he can do in order to change that and get to the line more often? Can you ask him:
“Joe, in the game where you first wore the headband, you had a scoring outburst and I noticed for the next few games you attacked faster and let shots fly without hesitation more than you have in a couple of years, is that something we will see more of in the future?”
“Joe, when you get the ball, you have a tendency to let the opposing defense set before you attack it. Why is this? Wouldn’t attacking before they have time to adjust to you coming off of a screen be ideal? Wouldn’t that geive you the oppoutunity to catch the defense off-guard and put them in a position where they either have to foul you and send you to the line, or concede a basket? What are your thoughts on this Joe?”
Just some lingering questions im my head MC
Rev in Tampa
March 24th, 2011
4:21 pm
MsDee,
I hope I am not being a bad influence on you in your language.
I think that 20 point game against Chicago was Teague’s way of expressing those EXACT thoughts to LD. It seemed if Teague hesitated for a fraction of a second before he shot those 3’s and it wouldn’t surprise me if the hesitation was there because Teague was thinking, “Here’s what I think of your rotations coach.”
MB in SC
March 24th, 2011
4:22 pm
I believe–and I bet a lot of others here do as well–that his exact group of players could make a great run in the playoffs. They could use a beast 5, but that isn’t the problem. They could use a better starting 3, but that isn’t the problem. They need a COACH–a coach the players have confidence in. A coach that the players truly believe knows more about how to run the floor than they do. A coach that the players want to play hard for and listen to; because they know that with his knowledge coupled with their skill, they could make something special. That gives them reason to play hard.
They don’t have that confidence in LD. They look lost because, well, they are lost. The players’ body language and attitudes are a direct reflection of their lack of trust in LD’s schemes.
Why are the fans so passionate here? Because they know this team could be special.
They need a seasoned coach that isn’t in above his head. Send LD to the Utah Flash or something. Let’s get someone in here that takes control, looks the part, and coaches at the NBA level.
ant banks
March 24th, 2011
4:25 pm
during last summer, sund and the asg, stressed “keeping the core together.” they re-signed marvin, zaza, bibby, josh, and jj. what’s the significance of keepin’ the core together if they get blown out as such?
the hawks lead the league in double digit point losses. and this CORE you want to keep together?
ant banks
March 24th, 2011
4:28 pm
i have heard that the organization will be purchased by ONE OWNER by july 1st. i surely hope that he/she is an avid basketball fan and owner, like mark cuban and will make the necessary changes to bring this organization outta the abyss. atlanta is a top 10 market for basketball, according to reports. if they build a championship team, WE WILL COME!!!
Trojan
March 24th, 2011
4:28 pm
Fire LD and get Jerry Sloan.
That would be great but Sloan would not be cheap and so far CHEAP has been the most important consideration in every hire:
Billy Knight – Cheapest GM available
Woody – Cheapest Coach available
Sund – Cheapest GM available
LD – Cheapeast Coach available
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
4:31 pm
Horford on Jim Rhome…comin’ up…
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
4:32 pm
let the ASG be a lesson to all of us…DO NOT buy things that you CANNOT maintain…PERIOD!!! you’ll lose ‘em or have to sell ‘em!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
4:36 pm
“The Sixers were the latest opponent to send aggressive double teams at J.J. Opponents did the same even during his awful start to the season. And yet they sometimes seem almost OK with Al stepping out for mid range Js (at least when he’s not being ignored by his teammates). I don’t understand any of this.”
I understand at least part of this perfectly. Teams realize that Joe is slow as hell reacting to double teams and getting the ball out of his hands, which means that they can double team him with impunity knowing that he is unlikely to make them pay for it. If Joe could pass out of the double team as decisively as Smoove does, the aggressive double teaming strategy wouldn’t work nearly as well.
Why teams haven’t adjusted to Al, I’m not so sure about.
longtime Hawks fan
March 24th, 2011
4:37 pm
Good comment ant bank….does anyone think that Jerry Sloan would hesitate for one second to yank Smoov out after a three point air ball????
slimjr
March 24th, 2011
4:38 pm
“i have heard that the organization will be purchased by ONE OWNER by july 1st. i surely hope that he/she is an avid basketball fan and owner, like mark cuban and will make the necessary changes to bring this organization outta the abyss. atlanta is a top 10 market for basketball, according to reports. if they build a championship team, WE WILL COME!!”
Man I hope your right on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This owner should come in here and get the broom out..Sweep till your tired of sweeping this garbage out of here………………………………..
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
4:40 pm
Al Horford is on Jim Rome Is Burning right now.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
4:41 pm
“aspiring Hawks Fan ”
Not exactly something worth aspiring toward.
doc
March 24th, 2011
4:42 pm
they are over matched and have little reserve as the season wears on; no depth and no true superstar to carry them wears a team down mentally. they are done and sorry to see it come to this. need bulk and depth is only solution along with a karl type of genius running the show if they are going to settle for fiscal prudence.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
March 24th, 2011
4:42 pm
Ill-logical
I thought Marvin Gaye’s song said ” I been really trying to hold BACK these feelings for so long ” !!!!!
MC
Saying that Smoove plays smart sometimes is cool, but that’s like saying a wino is sober sometimes.True, but not often enough !!!!
I’m just @ a lost w/ the Teague situation, but when I had a chance to watch the other NBA game, of course, I find myself watching the majority of the Hawks game. FAN-atic I guess !!
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
4:47 pm
AL bein’ politically correct…but what’d ya expect. Rhome asked him if he got the kinda response he was hopin’ for in his players only meeting….AL did NOT say yes. he said he got some feedback. like i said…KA BOOM!!!
mykhalc
March 24th, 2011
4:48 pm
he was bein’ pretty careful with his choice of words IMHO…
Reading Is Fundamental
March 24th, 2011
4:48 pm
Matt
March 24th, 2011
1:50 pm
“If Josh is a “smart” player, why does he spend all his time on offense standing in one place outside the three point line? I have to believe that is where our opponents want him.”
If Matt is a “smart reader” how did he miss the qualifier that MC added: “when focused and engaged”?
When focused and engaged, like last night, Josh goes inside. You missed MC’s point in your haste to trash Josh.
Reading truly is fundamental.
joey
March 24th, 2011
4:54 pm
the only problem is joe. he has the talent to be a top 10 player but he is to passive,and he has no killer instincts, he needs to take the team on his shoulders and carry them like he did in 2007 against boston if he does that the hawks have the talent to contend but the problems is he lacks killer instinct that d rose d wade l james, k bryant have, when he starts becoming more aggresive this team the hawks will drastically become better
Prison Mike
March 24th, 2011
4:57 pm
The reason josh and others are out on the perimeter is to give joe operating room inside. Any fake hawk fan would know this much less a casual one.
To be honest this offense hasn’t deviated from woodson’s reign, dribble, dribble, shoot.You’ve traded four players including a mid first rounder for hinrich, make him the main ball handler.
joey
March 24th, 2011
4:59 pm
and ld needs to start or at least play teage , every time hes in the game the defense is better at he pushes tempo we are a better team
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
5:07 pm
“So what as fans are we supposed to do ….???? Do we have to watch a half hearted effort everytime this team takes to the floor . I think not”
I have actually considered the possibility of just chanting MVP for every opposing team’s best player, regardless of how well they are playing or what the score is, until the Hawks acquire a legit MVP candidate. People clown Hawks fans now because this happens, but if it started happening every game people would start looking at it as more of a protest than simple bandwagon jumping. The problem is that in order to do so one must pay the DASG for tickets in the first place.
Neki Ecko
March 24th, 2011
5:07 pm
@ant banks
So where did you get that information from? I am curious about that, but it could give us false hope.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 24th, 2011
5:11 pm
I don’t even buy that Smoove is only a smart player when he is engaged. People don’t lose their intelligence when they lose focus and get it back at will whenever they decide to focus in again. Smoove is a smart player, period. As anyone who can think back to high school can remember, though, having intelligence doesn’t necessarily translate into making intelligent decisions. Especially when the coach isn’t willing to hold him accountable, Smoove’s overconfidence overshadows his intelligence and causes him to make bad decisions. Calling him a dumb player requires making the assumption that all bad decisions are caused by stupidity, when in reality many intelligent people make bad decisions due to other reasons.
nique
March 24th, 2011
5:13 pm
Difficult to care about the Hawks these days. The only players with heart are Al and Zaza…..
MaxxHawk
March 24th, 2011
5:14 pm
Mc, I don’t understand any of it either. all I know is we traded our 1st round pick from this past year and next year’s 1st round pick for Kirk Heinrich, which set us back years. Jordan Crawford is scoring and playing great for the Wizards. Joe Johnson is the most overpaid athlete in Sports. The Hawks have tuned out their coach, who is only the coach because he came the cheapest, and the Hawks have become accustomed to being on the wrong end of epic blowouts. the Hawks have mailed it in, they play with no toughness or heart, and nobody knows who to point the finger at. Ownership needs to finally admit defeat and sell this team, new Owner needs to replace Rick Sund with Kevin Pritchard, hire Mark Jackson and trade Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson for as much value as we can get. That’s how we begin to fix the Hawks. The organization is a mess from the top-down. Keep Josh, Al, and Teague and ship everyone else out of town.