When the Hawks started the season hot, J.J. was the one guy who always said he wasn’t impressed because they were beating up on lesser teams.
Now that they are taking regular beat downs from better teams, does he think the Hawks still believe they can get on a roll?
“Definitely,” he said. “We know we can beat any team in the league. It’s just a matter of us bringing our ‘A’ game every night. We can’t play down to our opponents [and] when we play teams on our level or that people think are above us, we have got to take it up two more notches.”
Soon after Hinrich joined the team, he said: “Since I’ve been here we’ve talked about defending and bringing the energy. And when we do that we can be a tough team because of the talent we have and athletes and the shooters. If we can lock down on the defensive end, it will make the game a lot easier for us.”
Now the Hawks are defending better (for the most part) but things haven’t been at all easy because they struggle to score despite the talent and athleticism and shooting hasn’ that Hinrich talked about.
Does he think the Hawks still believe they can be a “tough” team like he said back then?
“I believe that way and I feel like everyone in this room does,” Hinrich said. “We’ve had some bumps, we haven’t played well at times but I think everyone believes if we put our minds to it [we can do it]. That’s kind of what we are trying to focus on these last 12 games: every game going out there and gearing up for the playoffs and play playoff basketball and hopefully be ready for the playoffs.”
J.J. and Hinrich aren’t talking about intangibles, not talent. Ken S. had a nice story the other day on the leadership void in the locker room. It was an issue last season, too, and it’s an issue again with the same mix of guys (now notably minus Bibby’s silly influence since the deadline).
But I still think it’s too simple to blame Atlanta’s struggles on intangible things like a lack of leadership. There are so many tangible, quantifiable and observable issues with this team that it’s no great mystery why they are struggling now that the competition has gotten tougher at the same time the calendar says it’s time for the real teams get serious.
For instance, do the Hawks take too many jump shots because they lack leadership? Or, is it like J.J. says, do they not work the post and drive to the basket for scores or fouls because they just aren’t built that way? Remember, the Hawks have been a jump-shooting team all season but L.D. didn’t really start harping on that until the jump shots stopped falling (and, in fact, he’s pretty much encouraged them in Smoove’s case).
Similarly, does the lack of leadership prevent the Hawks from getting back to defend in transition? Or is it just that they aren’t good at it because all those missed shots from a jump-shooting team, combined with no consistent rebounding outside of Smoove and Al, leading to easy chances on the break for their opponents?
All of this is not to say the Hawks don’t sometimes give in too easily when things get tough. But I think they give in because they realize they aren’t good enough to do what’s necessary to win when Plan A doesn’t work. The Hawks are a pretty good team. They could try harder, be tougher, show more heart or whatever and I still don’t think they can overcome their shortcomings to become a very good or great team.
But that’s somewhat speculative on my part, and I understand the frustration of fans who believe the Hawks could be much better if they had more leadership, heart, toughness, etc. And it would be a nice change of pace to see the Hawks at least try to consistently minimize their weaknesses, exploit their strengths, use all of their bona fide rotation players in roles suited for them and see what happens.
Time is running our for the Hawks to figure it out but they insist they still can do it.
“I still think there’s a belief in that,” L.D. said. “Everybody is aware we haven’t had a great March but we are still in position with 12 games left. It’s just a matter of getting on a roll. There are some teams that have struggled in the East and some still struggling. Chicago is the one team that has been the most consistent. Everyone else has had ups and downs.
“I still think it’s wide open. I really hope that our guys still believe they can get on a roll and anything can happen.”
The Hawks can start against the Bulls.
“I think we are still a confident group,” Al said. “Tonight is a big game.”
Damien has an interesting perspective on all of this. I asked him if he’s ever played on a team that struggled and then got it together in the final month and made a run. Soon after the question was out of my mouth I realized he hasn’t been on a good team since he was a rookie in Seattle.
Now he’s on a team that’s struggling but that he still thinks has a shot.
“That’s why, to me, it was never really a big panic or as big of a deal as it seemed,” he said. “Because, I’m like, everyone is panicking around here and I know we lost a couple games we should have won and didn’t play as well as we should have but at the end of the day we are still the fifth seed. So to me I am still excited.
“I think our effort against Miami, it was almost as if we packed in the season it looked like. Looking back, I can understand why the panic has set in for everybody, or it seemed like it. They know we are a better team than this. But at the end of day I am still excited because I have a chance to get in the playoffs and once you get there the seeds and the records go out the window. It’s about execution and adjustments. We will see what happens when we get there.”
Game notes
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
845 comments Add your comment
Not Sund
March 22nd, 2011
7:27 pm
I’m not gonna run the numbers, has anyone figured out on a per game basis, the number of jumpshots that Josh has to take to guarantee a lost by the Hawks?
Even with L.D.’s awful coaching still believe Josh is the key to the hawks success.
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
7:32 pm
From the previous blog:
Rod,
It’s pointless to discuss with you but even so, I am feeling generous and again will attempt to penetrate in your thick skull.
You believe that scoring points is THE mark of success in the NBA.
This means that your vision of the game is limited to offense.
The myth that offense – most notably individual offense – beats defense has been long shot down, ever since Russell dominated Wilt.
Again on McGrady:
JVG coached McGrady and has that opinion of him in comparison with OTHER NBA PLAYERS AND WITH WHAT NORMALLY HAPPENS IN PRACTICE.
I gave Kobe and MJ’s examples because it was not only their natural given physical talent that made them winners, it was also their competitive edge and their understanding that to work more on their skills would make then achieve better things.
When MJ entered the league, his shot range was limited. He worked his ass off to improve and expand his game.
Both Kobe and MJ always played both ways basketball (with MJ much better and more focused than Kobe).
McGrady never had any remote inclination to play DEFENSE. His cousin Carter is a similar case. Very impressive career stats, a major LOSER.
Defense is hard work. McGrady felt that he did not have to work. He notoriously underachieved.
So Bird did not practice when he was hurt… umm… how about before he got hurt?
Have you read anything about Bird’s life and career?
He was not physically gifted – at all – but he was devoted to the game and his incredibly awkward but effective moves came out of millions of repetitions on his backyard, that is the precise opposite of McGrady, so you better find better examples.
McGrady had a physical talent but never worked enough to develop both his physical game and his understanding of the game.
Mike
March 22nd, 2011
7:35 pm
Very thoughtful article, Mr. Cunningham. I’m not sure what I think about your suggestion, but it gives me pause about my knee-jerk assumptions on their lack of leadership and is nicely done.
ignition
March 22nd, 2011
7:53 pm
Where is this game online ??
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
7:57 pm
nire,
Fair enough.
One thing I’ve noticed on multiple occasions, is how Josh’s decision making has led to Kirk committing a foul. There were different instances where Josh has the ball on the breakaway, and instead of giving it to Kirk, Josh tries to do what he does (or doesn’t), and it leads to a turnover.
Kirk ends up running back on D and committing a foul. Another instance I’ve seen is Josh not playing his best man to man defense. Instead, he goes for a steal, misses, and Kirk ends up committing a foul behind him.
Josh is not the only one who does this, so this is why we need everyone to stay together, and play good team defense. Defending Rose will take a team effort.
Blast
March 22nd, 2011
8:03 pm
Oh, No! Not Webber and Barry! They hate Hawks!
uh
March 22nd, 2011
8:04 pm
link for the game anywhere? anyone?
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:08 pm
chris webber speaking the truth though
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:09 pm
http://www.soccertvlive.net/watch/56384/1/watch-atlanta-hawks-vs-chicago-bulls.html
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
8:09 pm
Weber said Josh should play the 3? I disagree.
But he did take a shot at management, and that I agree with.
For online feeds, try atdhenet.tv
Michael Cunningham
March 22nd, 2011
8:10 pm
@Grandad: “I believe a lack of intangible qualities;
team attitude, competitive greatness, winning culture, inherent toughness, & character
lead to a breakdown of quantifiable and observable issues with any team.”
that’s a reasonable view. but i think more often the quantifiable and observable issues are a function of just not being good enough. this is certainly the case for awful teams–no one, for instance, would say the Cavs would be good if they only had more of those qualities. for teams like the Hawks, who are clearly not awful but also not great, it can be a fuzzy area.
cp
March 22nd, 2011
8:11 pm
No Jamal guarding D Rose
Section 212
March 22nd, 2011
8:12 pm
Two things for tonights game:
1. START TEAGUE
2. GIVE US MORE “ISO JOE”
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:12 pm
“It’s absurd that Smoove averages just 8.7 rebounds a game with his athleticism and strength. And that’s his career high. He could average 12 per game if he stopped trying to be a guard and made his living within 10 feet from the basket.”
Smoove is at a career high defensive rebounding rate this season, in a virtual tie with Al. Where his rebounding rate has taken a huge hit is on the offensive end, where it’s down by 2.5%. How much of Smoove’s drop in offensive rebounding rate is related to scheme and how much is related to willingness?
Next question: how many people with height, strength, and athletic ability comparable to Smoove have ever averaged 12 boards a game? I can’t think of anyone other than Dennis Rodman. Even Barkley and Ben Wallace were a lot stronger than Smoove is.
So much of the problem with Smoove is simply expectations. Hawks fans in general seem to think he’s capable of being so much more than he actually is.
Section 212
March 22nd, 2011
8:13 pm
The Hawks were a better offensive team with the ISO JOE offense.
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
8:14 pm
Also from the previous blog:
Rod,
You made an attempt to describe me as a racist due to my praise of Hinrich and my criticism of McGrady and Jamal.
I am glad that you did not pass the level of “attempt”, although I feel that you simply tried not to “step out of bounds” and that your true feelings are those.
For the record, my favorite player of all time is Dominique*. He is the reason why I am an Atlanta Hawks’ fan.
If I were a racist, I would be a Celtics fan since I would have naturally preferred to root for a team with Bird, McHale and Walton back then.
Furthermore, as a child, the player I loathed the most was Koncak, which I considered then to be the #1 factor for the Hawks demise and which absurd contract I linked to a racist driven management decision, making his presence on the floor even more annoying to me.
Now, a few notes on white players: since on average white players are less gifted physically, the guys that make it to the NBA level and succeed are all hard workers, disciplined, mentally tough and the many have a very high basketball IQ to compensate their physical limitations (Bird being a perfect example).
The few exceptions to the above are guys who live off their size or off being shooting specialists and maybe there you will find a few that are only in the league to fulfill kind of a quota.
The above, does not mean – at all – that there aren’t black players which are hard workers, tough, disciplined and have a high basketball IQ.
It simply means that there are many players who live mostly off their physical gifts and do not work other aspects of the game since their physical skills are so tremendous that they don’t need to do that in order to be successful to the point of being seen as starts and making a very good living playing basketball.
This was the case with McGrady, Francis, Marbury, …
Section 212
March 22nd, 2011
8:15 pm
C Web made some great points about Hawks ownership.
Section 212
March 22nd, 2011
8:16 pm
Hey M.C. – are you blocking my comments???
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:16 pm
uh oh bulls fans
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:18 pm
“Weber said Josh should play the 3? I disagree.
But he did take a shot at management, and that I agree with. ”
C-Webb is clearly going strictly by size.
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:18 pm
smh
bigdave
March 22nd, 2011
8:19 pm
Al doesnt even attempt to step up and block a shot. smh.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:20 pm
This is the first Hawks game I’m seeing on TNT this year. I guess I must have been at every previous TNT game.
Rashod
March 22nd, 2011
8:20 pm
I know ya’ll heard what Chris Webber said about the Hawks !!! Joe Johnson Sucks
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:21 pm
Marvin the “extra shooter” with a wide open brick.
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:21 pm
here we go with jumpshots
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
8:21 pm
Thats our shooter Marvin…I hope he gets hot
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:21 pm
please release marvin
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:22 pm
Their star makes his step back contested jump shot. Ours doesn’t. These are the kinds of things that swing playoff series to one team or another.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:23 pm
Funny how the Bulls, despite having arguably the league’s best point guard, started with three or four consecutive post ups. Meanwhile, the Hawks started going all perimeter and didn’t get a post up until the previous possession when Smoove made his little bank shot.
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:23 pm
hordord wouldnt have made that dunk if noah wasnt under the rim(sarcastic)
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:26 pm
did he just say bulls lead by 8?
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:27 pm
Nice look by Kirk. Good little play to free up Smoove.
cp
March 22nd, 2011
8:27 pm
Smh Marvin cant defend Deng
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:27 pm
Deng has improved a LOT.
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:28 pm
man boozer cant be this good I mean geez
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
8:28 pm
For the record, BK could have drafted Deng instead of Childress…
niremetal
March 22nd, 2011
8:29 pm
cp,
Deng made a mid-range fadeaway jumper with a hand in his face. Marvin made him take a low percentage shot and he contested that shot. Can’t do more than that without fouling.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:29 pm
Nice strong take by Marvin.
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:31 pm
lol what is joe doing?
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:31 pm
What’s the point of setting a screen for Joe if he’s just going to pound it into the ground for three seconds after he gets around it?
J.J.M
March 22nd, 2011
8:31 pm
damn there goes josh
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
8:32 pm
But yet Rod is saying if Kirk was good, the Bulls would not have drafted Rose?
sleepy
March 22nd, 2011
8:32 pm
…pathetic the amount of Bulls fans in attendance. The 5th seed is probably better for us as we have no homecourt advantage
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:32 pm
Bulls doing a good job getting back on D.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
8:33 pm
Or was that Samuel?
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
8:33 pm
I like the fact that Jamal is not playing backup PG…
Section 212
March 22nd, 2011
8:33 pm
Josh always gets in foul trouble on national games….
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:34 pm
Wow that was a great lead pass by Joe.
Al gotta box out on the previous possession though. Can’t let Taj Gibson steal second chances over his head.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
8:34 pm
“I like the fact that Jamal is not playing backup PG…”
For now…