For Hawks, Pistons behind, Bulls next
Greetings, all
Hope you’re well. Sorry I couldn’t blog Sunday night. Georgia State is introducing its new coach today (Monday), which I found out last night and so I had to start digging around to find out who it was, right about the time I was going to sit down to blog.
This will be on the brief side, so my apologies again.
- Not sure how much to take from the game. It’s a win, which is the important thing, but a) it’s only one win; b) it was against Detroit. Still, beats the alternative. The Hawks played with a bit more energy. Kirk Hinrich: “We talked about it as a team. We’re aware of it and there’s going to be nights that don’t go our way out there. We have to stick together, rely on each other and just play through it.”
- I counted 40 shots from 16 feet or more, out of 70. The Hawks started out shooting the ball well – they made seven of their first nine from 16 feet and out, and then 11 of the final 31. Off the top of my head, I’m not sure how this compares with a typical game, but it makes me wonder a little if the biggest difference in the game (opponent aside), or at least one of the biggest differences, was that the shots that they took went in after not going in against Miami, Denver, etc.
That said, I did think they were more intentional about running and to some degree played more physically on defense, although the Pistons still shot 50 percent from the field.
- The Jeff Teague update – 11th DNP. Larry Drew’s explanation – he didn’t want to start him because Tracy McGrady was a matchup problem, as well as Richard Hamilton. He said the starting unit got into a flow so he didn’t want to disrupt it. Also, he said he wanted to try to give Jamal Crawford more minutes than he would have otherwise to try to get him going before the playoffs start.
“I’m going to have to get him going and I’ve got to make sure he’s feeling good about himself as we move down the stretch,” Drew said. “He’s a guy we’re going to need down the stretch.”
- Chicago and Philadelphia ahead. Those games, I think we can agree, will be more telling than Sunday.
“We have to mirror this game but play with a little bit more energy and try to get the win against Chicago,” Josh Smith said.
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289 comments Add your comment
J from the A
March 21st, 2011
7:35 am
First!?
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
7:39 am
This team is a joke.
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
7:39 am
Drew used a three-guard lineup at times in large measure because he said he’s trying to help reserve Jamal Crawford break out of a slump. Crawford made three-of-eight shots for nine points — his third single-digit scoring game in the past four, including a scoreless outing in Friday’s loss to the Heat..
After reading this on the other blog, I had to post it over here. LD makes no sense to me. To help Jamal break out of a shooting slump, LD gave him more minutes at backup PG?
Atlanta reserve guard Jeff Teague, who recently started three straight games with Kirk Hinrich moving over to shooting guard, Joe Johnson from shooting guard to small forward, and Marvin Williams to the bench, did not play. In Friday’s loss to the Heat, he did not play in the first half.
Drew explained: “Jeff has done a great job since the trade.. I really wanted to look at a few things and put him in the lineup [last week]. When we made the trade, we brought Kirk Kinrich in here to run things. I think I really need to get into that frame of mind as we get down the stretch. Kirk is going to be our point guard. Jeff will find some minutes.”.
How is he supposed to find minutes? If Jamal gets injured? If the team is up or down by 20? I am ok with starting Hinrich, but since Hinrich played 36 minutes, Teague should have gotten the remaining 12.
Its only his first year, but I might need to get one of Clyde’s T-Shirts for LD.
http://www.nba.com/games/20110320/DETATL/gameinfo.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2/
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
7:48 am
LD is one the worse coaches in Hawks history.
ant banks
March 21st, 2011
7:48 am
hawks have a history of destroying the psyche of young guards…SALIM STOUDAMIRE, AC LAW, JORDON CRAWFORD AND JEFF TEAGUE.
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
7:50 am
Sund=Billy Knight, worst GM in Hawks History
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
7:55 am
Sund has been just as bad as LD. Time to get rid of both of them.
Trojan
March 21st, 2011
8:02 am
Sund has been below average but LD has been bad and getting worse.
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
8:10 am
Sund hired LD. He should get fired first.
NCBravesFan
March 21st, 2011
8:17 am
I’m with you, O’Brien. If you want to help Jamal, don’t let him play the point. Teague should be right behind KH in the PG rotation. The kid needs to play down the stretch and get some experience.
Section 303
March 21st, 2011
8:34 am
So…the Hawks are going to need Teague down the stretch? And, to get him ready, you don’t play him, Coach Drew? Coach Drew, with every passing minute, shows he is totally in over his head with this job. I don’t think Teague is the answer, but if you’re saying he needs minutes, then give him minutes!
There were bad matchups for him yesterday. Fine. But, that means he does not play the entire game? And, will he get a DNP every time there is a suspected matchup problem? Gosh….
You get what you pay for, I guess.
Lost a lot of faith in Larry Drew this weekend. First, he just sits back and lets the team get railroaded by officials on Friday against Miami. Then, his handling of Teague is just a total debacle. Throw in the fact that he has done nothing he said he would do and you have the makings of an awful NBA coach.
Section 303
March 21st, 2011
8:37 am
Oh…one more thing…good to know that Hinrich is aware that there are problems with energy. What a f’ing hot mess of a team. Are there any other teams in this league that say such stupid things?
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
8:37 am
Section 303- Wow, it took this weekend for you to finally give up on LD?
Rashod
March 21st, 2011
8:42 am
And Sund gave Joe Johnson a Max player !!! WTF
Leroy
March 21st, 2011
8:43 am
has anybody noticed jordan crawford is playing pretty good. only thing the kid needed was a chance. i believe his going to get better ,because he wasn’t used to playing.
drmaryb (*_-)
March 21st, 2011
9:03 am
Walk and Chew Gum at the same Time!
” I counted 40 shots from 16 feet or more, out of 70. The Hawks started out shooting the ball well – they made seven of their first nine from 16 feet and out,” – Ken Sigura -
_____________
To use a football analogy: we are a pass first offense and running the ball
appears to be an after thought. The Falcons have an identity of establishing the run between the tackles, (smash mouth football). And, then when the defense utilizes a cover 2 formation or goes into a prevent defense formation, they throw underneath the defense and take what that gives them. Boot legs, QB options or throwing across the middle are all short passes that moves the chain and increases The Falcons time of possessions.
______________
That, fellas is a game plan. The Falcons have 13 starters and the offensive coordinator must substitute the other 43 players in and out to keep the 1st string units fresh! Talk about complex, hugh?
___________
Well in basketball we have 13 players minimum to dress and struggle to find time for the remaining 8. Now, that shouldn’t be this hard to find time for Teague!
“’m with you, O’Brien. If you want to help Jamal, don’t let him play the point. Teague should be right behind KH in the PG rotation. The kid needs to play down the stretch and get some experience.”
_________________
Exactly on point here!
Why can’t coach create a game plan that establishes Al, Josh in the paint foremost, establish Joe and Jamal on the perimeter, (like wide outs),
Throw underneath with Marvin running slashing to the basket, (like across the middle) and let Kirk and Teague QB this team with some boot legs and option plays to penetrate and dish?
Can the Coach not walk and chew gum at the same time.
Jamal is an 11 year veteran, can’t he get himself going and Drew help teage do the same. We are going to need Teague down the stretch too!
________________
Create minutes for Teague already, 15 – 20 mins/per shouldn’t be this hard? Try incorporating 43 players, now that’s a real challenge.
Find out who we are? Establish an identity!
Are we a “Smash Mouth” team or a “Run and Shoot” (red gun), offense?
___________________
Figure it out Drew! I can’t tell? But 40 passes and 30 run plays is quite telling. We are a “run and shoot” offensive team! In the defensive East.
I guess we are a West Coast hybrid offense that dinks, dunks and will never stress the long timing passes that stress the defensive corner backs, ever!
We have usable parts that will never be used.
kaminari
March 21st, 2011
9:15 am
I’m looking forward to the offseason and what changes might happen. First, ownership. I really hope the ASG sell the team. Next, mgmt. Will there be changes at the top? I do hope that they change LD and they will once the Hawks exit the first round. (if the Hawks do make it past the first round, then some kind of major mental and coaching shift must’ve happened, so all my comments here are mute.)
I’m also really excited to see who goes and who comes. I can’t wait till next season. (that’s how good I feel about this one).
Oh, about the Bulls? I’m sure we’ll lose. If I had money to put on it… but I’m not a gambling man.
Not Sund
March 21st, 2011
9:16 am
I agree, L.D. was a mistake, a cheap mistake though. You get what you pay for.
cp
March 21st, 2011
9:17 am
LD just makes it up as he goes smdh..As bad as the Pistons are they still shot 50% from the field smh..Might as well trade Teague in the summer if he isn’t going to get minutes. If LD has Jamal guarding Rose Tuesday night I might just have to give up on this team. I wont be shocked if LD does put him on Rose then come with some crazy explanation as to why he did it. LD is in over his head..And great post O’Brien and dr mary
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
9:30 am
The hawks are only going to win 45 games this year.
clancy
March 21st, 2011
9:30 am
I also have no issue with starting Kirk – but with the way he plays defense, he’s more effective going roughly 30-34 minutes a game. I’m totally on board with JT getting the remaining 14-18 as a general plan. You can’t protect a player from matchups by benching him if you want him to be part of the regular rotation. And that’s not even addressing the issue of the alternative – Jamal at point. Getting JT minutes is not an all-or-nothing he starts or doesn’t play! He should absolutely get a solid stint giving Kirk a breather in both halves.
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
9:35 am
Section 303,
I think Jamal is the guy LD was saying he needs to get going down the stretch.
But playing him at backup PG is not the way to go. Anybody can look at Jamal’s numbers at backup PG on the season, and the team results, and can show that’s not a good option.
I don’t always agree with Jeff Schultz, but I thought this excerpt from his article was on point;
These are your Hawks: some mismatched parts and personalities and a head coach who says all of the right things but unfortunately too often comes off as the second-grade teacher who constantly screams at the kids, “I said, ‘Line up!’”.
This time of season is about more than mismatched parts and personalities. It’s about all of those things the Hawks too often have lacked in difficult moments: heart, desire, resolve. .
bigdave
March 21st, 2011
9:48 am
“I’m going to have to get him going and I’ve got to make sure he’s feeling good about himself as we move down the stretch,” Drew said. “He’s a guy we’re going to need down the stretch.”
@ pg though? so we dont need Teague down the stretch. any period of time w/ Jamal matching up against Rondo, Rose, or Nelson spells curtains. it just appears that opposing teams catch fire when Jamal is @ point.
we’ll just have to accept Jeff being used as a utility, defensive guy. the same way Drew uses a Damien Wilkins. the thing is Jeff is a pg, which makes Drew just throwing him in there rusty from his dnp’s and expecting him to have a positive impact a lot tougher.
Not Sund
March 21st, 2011
9:48 am
L.D. coaches like a 13 year old playing a video game, he just throws out a lineup based on the matchups that exist in his head. In the meantime there is no thought given to team continuity and developing a playing personality of our own.
Who could have seen this coming when he was hired.
Grandad
March 21st, 2011
9:49 am
kaminari:
I don’t gamble either.
However, I think I’m gonna wager on the Bulls.
Mary Ellen:
Great post + your arithmatic = my arithmatic?
drmaryb (*_-)
March 21st, 2011
10:01 am
Jordan Crawford Stats 10-11: from my Blackberry, so bear with format. Here goes:
______________________
G, GS, MPG, FG%, 3P%, FT, Off/Def, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG, TO, PF, PPG:
____________
ATL
16
0
10.0
0.351
0.333
0.667
0.6
1.2
1.8
0.9
0.2
0.0
0.9
0.8
4.2
_______________
10-11
WAS
12
4
25.8
0.410
0.150
0.846
0.6
1.5
2.1
2.3
1.4
0.1
1.9
1.2
13.0
________________
10-11
–
28
4
16.8
0.391
0.224
0.813
0.6
1.3
1.9
1.5
0.7
0.0
1.4
1.0
8.0
___________
Career
28
4
16.8
0.391
0.224
0.813
0.6
1.3
1.9
1.5
0.7
0.0
1.4
1.0
8.0
________________
Not listed on Synergy due to 10 Game played minimum required
doc
March 21st, 2011
10:19 am
yeah dmb, we have gone from woody hayes ball, three yards and a cloud of dust, to air coryell.
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
10:22 am
LD= Jim Mora, CLUELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
10:25 am
JC2 is Ballin!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SUND GAVE HIM UP FOR THE HEIMLICH MANEUVER?????????????????????????? JUST WOW MAN………………………………………………….
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
10:25 am
LD said he couldn’t start because of the matchup problems. WHY WOULD YOU START HIM IF HE HASN’T STARTED MUCH ALL YEAR? AT LEAST BRING HIM OFF THE DAMN BENCH
MY GOODNESS
rusty
March 21st, 2011
10:27 am
If you had a great talented first round player on your bench & didn’t play him for the first season or second season would that player be as good when you did get around playing him he definitely wouldn’t for lack of experience & depression. The hawk coaches are a destroyer of young talent,not only for not playing them but also for playing them in systems which make no sense & for holding everyone accountable differently. As for ld his brain must look like someone who has done too many drugs as the man has no sense.
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
10:30 am
THIS PLAYOFF RUN WILL BE EMBARRASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
10:30 am
Kind of hard to evaluate JC2’s performance considering the situation (i.e. playing on a bad team that is losing and has little alternative other than auditioning young players for next season). I’m just gald that he is able to take full advantage of the extra playing time. My guess is that watching Wall and JC2 run the floor has got to be fairly entertaining and encouraging for Wizards fans.
Meanwhile the Hawks continue to be as exciting as a toothache. 17 of 30 losses by 10 points or more? And Josh continues to say that simply running faster, jumping higher and bringing more energy to the court will resolve all issues. So running faster to the corner on a fast break (as opposed to filling the lane) will suffice to get this team going, huh?
Big Daddy
March 21st, 2011
10:33 am
I take it that no reporter called LD on the other comments he had about Jeff Teague a week ago. He sounds like someone who is being controlled by a higher level power. I wonder how much automomy he does have.
If Kirk goes down, what is he going to do? His reasoning doesn’t fly and he is going to be full of regrets if he has more than one person have a problem. Expect the same excuses after the Bulls game. The Bulls are playing great ball now and our defense has not really proven sustainable for 40 minutes. I keep hoping they are going to figure something out and get into a rhythm. Go Haws!!! (sigh)
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
10:36 am
Al for NeNe yesterday!
Josh for Rudy Gay!
JC1 walk………..
Marvin Waive goodbye
tony
March 21st, 2011
10:51 am
There are 8 members of the ASG and they share equal voting power. Someone in that bunch might be unwilling to reduce his salary in order to bring a super star to the ATL. This is bad for business(I think Belkin saw JJ as an average player). The hawks need 1 owner because in wouldn’t put a dent in his salary.
Starting Teague over Captain Kirk would open the door to more criticism for Sund/ASG……so to them it would be in their best interest to start KH. I believe Teague will get more minutes if he would act like a leader whenever he get’s his opportunity. My advice to Teague:
1) Be more vocal/assertive
2) Take charge(don’t allow JJ and JS to dictate)
3) Use your strength(get in the paint immediately and create havoc)
4) Play with confidence
5) Don’t force shots
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
10:52 am
FIRE LD
FIRE JOSH
FIRE WOODY
FIRE ASG
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
10:54 am
Big Daddy, remember that LD used Teague to demonstrate his offensive scheme during his summer interview. The owner also specifically criticized Woody for not using Teague last year. They fielded a summer league team built around Teague. Lastly, LD was Teague’s position coach in his rookie season AND hired Van Exel for the purpose of tutoring Teague. The notion that LD has oppressed Teague (while Teague has done everything possible from day one to seize all opportunities) is one that I simply don’t buy. With 12 games left, it’s time to set your rotation and starting building chemistry.
Ak
March 21st, 2011
11:10 am
If Kirk is your PG, why is JC bringing the ball down and setting up the plays. Why bring a guy to run the show and put him in Bibbymode. Larry Drew is a woodyclone…nothing has changed since last year.
Mike is back
March 21st, 2011
11:10 am
Doc, I thought I would never say this…but I don’t know which will be worst…a lockout next season or enduring another season with LD being HC for Hawks…this dude is still making excuses.
Maybe it is time to move Josh…however I would replace LD first before I did anything!!!!
Now, LD gotta get JC1 going…may be than…we can start playing some lock down defense.lol
Geeeeeeeeeeez here we go again.
The true confession of a dispirited Hawks Fan.lol
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
11:13 am
The players, coaches, and fans all know it:
This is a soft basketball team.
No vocal leaders, no leadership, no one who will commit a hard foul, a head coach with two plays (the thumbs up/thumbs down) who doesn’t talk or hold anyone accountable
This franchise is a failure.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
11:18 am
Astro Joe – you said, “The notion that LD has oppressed Teague (while Teague has done everything possible from day one to seize all opportunities) is one that I simply don’t buy”.
So has anyone oppressed JT, or is it his own incompetence as you see it that has kept him off the court?
You also said, “With 12 games left, it’s time to set your rotation and starting building chemistry.”
So we should be starting the Collins, Al, Josh, JJ, Kirk lineup if we are to play Orlando in the 1st round?
How do you know which lineup to play every night to build chemistry, if you are going to change that lineup based on our matchup? What if we fall to the 6th seed and play the Heat? What if we fall to 7th, still a real possibility, and play the Celts? Or what if the Heat and Celts swap places in the standings?
With LD as Coach, the reasoning doesn’t hold up.
Rufus1
March 21st, 2011
11:19 am
Accountability and mental toughness..
Those articles about his children are a clear reflection of the current Hawks team. A lack of accountability,a sense of entitlement given to certain player and no mental toughness describe the current Hawks team.
These facts have caused me to lose faith in LD ability to change are playoff fortune…..sigh. I also think his unwillingness to suffer through the ups and downs of young players is an example of his own lack of mental toughness….YOUR TEAM TAKES ON YOUR PERSONALITY
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
11:20 am
I mean Collins gets DNP after DNP, yet if we play the Magic in the 1st round, he’s going to be starting, and Etan will be getting burn also. How is what we’re doing now setting a rotation and building chemistry? Just asking.
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
11:23 am
From bad to worse, they were soft last season and with our bigs enjoying a soft existence on the perimeter, it has gotten exponentially worse. Zaza gets flagrant fouls called on him because his fouls look so much more violent than anyone else on the team. He’s a victim of his teammate’s timidness.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
11:26 am
And don’t anybody buy we don’t have the talent stuff. It’s coaching plain and simple.
5x All Star in JJ. 3rd team All NBA
2x All Star Al
Close to All Star Josh. 2nd in DPOY voting
Reigning SMOY
Kirk, ZaZa, Wilkens, Teague, and Marvin give us a 9 deep rotation. Compare it to the Lakers, Celts, Miami, Bulls, Spurs etc. Our 9 deep can compete with their 9 deep.
It’s coaching, plain and simple and that’s where we stink.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
11:32 am
SteveW,
I co-sign your 11:26am post
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
11:37 am
No its more than coaching.You have a group of spoiled young Men who are not mental tough and think all they have to do is show up!! You can see they do not put much time into their craft and that’s why as a franchise they will fail miserably for the the third straight playoff run!! They dont get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
11:42 am
SteveW, unfortunately, Collins is pretty horrific against most other centers so I don’t know that I would throw him out there against just anyone (I can’t imagine him starting against Noah or the 76ers). But Hinrich needs to get as much time as he can with the guys who will play the bulk of the minutes in the playoffs (even when Collins plays, he won’t likely get more than 20 minutes). Also, I think our offense is what truly needs work in these last few games, and Collins is a complete non-factor there (other than setting a moving screen here and there).
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
11:46 am
Al and the GIRLS are going to be DISMANTLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jgsbirds
March 21st, 2011
11:47 am
it’s all about coaching, nothing else!
this team has enough talent to be playing way better than it has of late. there’s a lot missing and i mean a lot! the team classifies them selves as a jump shot team but really and truly they are not a great jump shooting team. i mean the two best jump shooters on the team are hinrich and horford (set shot). i used to believe jj would be in that mix but not now–his shot is long been gone. jamal crawford–very streaky as is marvin. jsmoove has improved his outside shot but not near enough to keep hoisting them every trip down. teague is not a great shooter at all, neither is wilkins, zsa zsa not bad, twin-no, etan-no and hilton–don’t know but probably not. so enough already from the hawks about being a jump shooting team–you’re not!
play team ball–move it around and find a great shot. think inside/out and get it out on the break as much as possible. they also need to go over fundamental defense–help out and certainly box out on rebounds…
finally–play with some heart! if a team starts steamrolling you–show some fight. give a hard foul to lebron, wade or bosh or whoever that it may be..kudos for zsa zsa against miami the other night…but if you are going to do it–get your moneys worth next time. they’re going to call it anyway!
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
11:50 am
Amen, SteveW
FIRE LD
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
11:57 am
Hawks dont even make the playoffs this year if they played in the Western Conference. They have been torched by teams from that conference!! Heck, the Thunder own the Hawks and have swept them 3 straight FREAKIN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hold on the BEAT DOWN IS COMIN…………………..
vava74
March 21st, 2011
12:00 pm
Nothing to be particularly happy about this game. The Pistons played reasonably well but never put a real hard fight. Most of their player’s effort was a little above scrimmage level and even so they managed to keep up.
Hinrich is miles ahead of everyone else in the team in intelligence and toughness.
He won the game for us last night with his D on Hamilton (never allowing him to get into the game) and afterwards – with some ups and downs due to his injury – on Stuckey.
Again Jamal had a clear detrimental impact to our game. On both ends. It’s sooo clear when you watch the game devoid of any emotion and with enough time to watch plays more than once.
Josh is never focused during game and has frequent lapses on D to go along with his jump shot happy, TO prone offense. He was good with his jumpers yesterday and delivered a couple of baskets in crunch time but facing Daye who is about 60lbs lighter than he is, that is not a feat.
If something came out of this game is the realization that LD has entered into FULL DIAPER MODE and will run down the starters to exhaustion to try and scrape off as many wins possible to pad up our record, regardless of what will left in the tank for the playoffs.
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
12:01 pm
Phil couldn’t and wouldn’t help this cast of characters………………………..
vava74
March 21st, 2011
12:04 pm
Astro,
You are not entirely right on Collins and SteveW has a point. He needs some minutes per game to keep his mojo flowing.
Collins has not been the problem as the game against the Heat was a good example.
Collins may not be effective against many line ups but his presence usually gives good defensive consistency in the post.
Obviously MIA is not a bad match up for Collins in the post with Dampier, but even so, the fact is that whilst he was in the game we were playing well and had a lead so it was not from his side that things went south:
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20110318&game=MIAATL
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
12:09 pm
vava, I was speaking to the remainder of the season whch includes one throw-away game against Miami. That fact is that Collins is a niche player… effective against some and disasterous against others.
Hey, what happened to all of those Carmelo fans? Knicks were better without him and so are the Nuggets.
doc
March 21st, 2011
12:11 pm
yes moke.
aj good point on fouls, we get so many of the flagrants when we barely push then get ambushed with no call. got to agree with svg, summthn is going on.
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
Joe Johnson’s numbers are down this season in EVERY category besides assists (5.0 vs. 4.9 last year)
Max Player
Trojan
March 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
A real coach would make Tracy McGrady worry about matching up with Teague’s speed.
MannyT
March 21st, 2011
12:24 pm
Fire Woody, fire LD, fire in the hole.
LD has to make playoffs. If he somehow wins in 1st round and wins a game in 2nd round, he’s more job secure than Woody was…and has a lower salary too.
Not saying he’s the answer, but he’ll be forgiven if he finds any playoff success. Remember Woody got a new contract after barely winning at home 3 times and getting blown out in Boston 4 times.
I suspect the Teague playing time deal is similar to what Jeff got in the Woody days. When coach feels pressure, the inexperienced get glued to the bench.
In the 3 guard line up, Hinrich is the PG & Jamal is the SG, BUT, he hoards the ball enough that it’s hard to tell. Easier to tell when Jamal plays with Jeff. Teague barely touches the ball and has little to do on offense except watch Jamal not pass the ball to him.
I hope the Hawks show some fight on Tuesday…it’s a TNT game.
Rufus1
March 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
Defensive roster with an offensive coach…
Play to your strengths…
John
March 21st, 2011
12:28 pm
All Collins does is allow the team to say a seven footer starts at center. He does nothing. That big lineup is so stupid and I don’t think it is why we beat Orlando twice this year. I never thought I would say it, but I miss Woody. At least you knew he wasn’t going to play Teague, instead of telling the press how great he is only not to play him. Talk about messing a young kid up. Iso-Joe and Jamal worked better than Drews “great offense”. I have tried to be patient all year but it is so frustrating. I think every player on the team has regressed offensively except maybe Al and that is because he improved his jumpshot, not a by-product of the offense. I usually don’t bash coaches, but Drew’s decisions make no sense.
John
March 21st, 2011
12:29 pm
Well said Trojan. Let other teams match up with our athletes.
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
12:31 pm
START DAMIEN AND BRING MARVIN OFF THE BENCH
START SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY HAS HEART
vava74
March 21st, 2011
12:39 pm
Astro,
“Collins is… disastrous against others.” When?
Disastrous was Smoove’s overall attitude and game against the Heat. Lebron started 6 for 6 from the field with a few assists with Josh strolling around like a “prima donna”, jacking up jump shots, being completely absent on the boards…
Grandad
March 21st, 2011
12:39 pm
I’m actually pullin’ for a lock-out.
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
12:55 pm
Although Collins has helped us do a better job on Dwight, there is a trickle down effect because Josh ends up on the perimeter even more playing SF. Naturally, I am concerned about his shot selection when that happens.
From Marc Stein’s power rankings, talking about our Hawks;
Going 3-2 on a six-game homestand entering the finale against Chicago is somewhat understandable given the quality of the opposition. The unacceptable part? Atlanta has topped 91 points three times all month..
Nice to see the motion offense that nobody else in the NBA runs or has ever seen racking up the points…
Joe
March 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
Have anyone noticed Jordan Crawford numbers with the Wizards? Amazing how proper coaching and a chance to play makes a significant difference!
EricT
March 21st, 2011
1:00 pm
If Josh smith ever decides to just start taking the ball to the hole and trying to dunk every time he touches it he and the team would be AWESOME!
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
KA BOOM!!! PLEASE!!!
but until then could i please see Kirk/JJ/Josh/Al/Hilton…just one time….please????
bunch of idiots!!!
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
Sometimes I think that our local media is scared to hold these guys accountable. Larry Drew and the sports south broadcasters act like we found something new with yesterday’s lineup. All he did was go back to the lineup that was getting blownout over and over again before he started Teague.
Daniel
March 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
Wow, this blog is nuts today.
Couple of points of clarity, Jordan Crawford’s numbers with Washington are meaningless when playing on a losing team at the end of the season, etc. If you are unaware of this please do not continue to posit any opinions regarding player talent and development.
Anyone that suggests Al Horford is the problem or that he should be traded for Nene(ha!) should immediately have all blog priviledges revoked.
As I have been saying all year long, the problem with this team is its fragile psyche, ever since Orlando embarrassed them and this city and no one on the team had the balls to call out the truth which is that the team are a bunch of whiny, disinterested quitters lead by a former assistant coach who was given the job by blaming his former boss for all the aforementioned problems and an ownership group that doesn’t know anything and the highest paid player who disappears for months, tells the media he doesn’t care what the fans think, but still manages to complain that his team isn’t getting the “proper” amount of fan support.
Daniel
March 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
Manny T “I hope the Hawks show some fight tonight”- I have been hoping for that for a season and a half. Please tell me when it happens.
ICECOLD
March 21st, 2011
1:16 pm
Jeff teague would be a superstar if we can get a true center that is big and a scoring threat… we need a center that can average 10 points , 12 rebounds and 2 blocks a game… tyson chandler, Nene, d Howard , bynum , Perkins , lopez, deandre Jordan , Chris kaman, or Gotact ….. that’s who we need to go after this off season… trade Marvin , and or zaza…. for any one of them… and then start Jeff teague … bench damien wilkins, jamal Crawford, kirk, and armstrong ….9 deep , when you play big teams, go 11 deep with Etan Thomas ( better athlete ) then Collins if you need some extra bigs….. u are a contender like that.
Daniel
March 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
just the facts ma’am “id take Nene over Al all day long” Really? with all that is wrong with this team, you would rather have a mediocre center than a legit all-star 4/5 and easily the best player on your team? Maybe the Hawks should hire you as GM then, since they are clearly not interested in winning. You would do a great job at that.
darrell starks
March 21st, 2011
1:40 pm
Daniel the biggest problem with horford is that he is not a center, but LD continue 2 play horford at center, which his strenght is powerford, look the hawks are rank 26 in NBA in rebounding, and josh, horford in frontcourt just want cut it JUST 2 small.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 21st, 2011
1:42 pm
Why is so hard for LD 2 ROTATE HILTON, COLLINS, ZAZA, at center and keep horford at powerford at all time.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
1:42 pm
Fire Sund
Fire Drew
Fire Dominique
Fire the ball boy who passes the ball to Josh so he can practice on his jumper.
Fire the guy who picks up Jamal jumpsuit when he comes in to play the point.
Rehire Mike Woodson and then fire him again for letting LD be his assistant coach.
darrell starks
March 21st, 2011
1:49 pm
Teague should starte point blank, because of the energy he bring 2 the team, i remember when the hawks made the trade and LD was force 2 starte teague against the warrior’s the hawks blew them off the court, but then it’s like LD HAVE alzheimer’s and forget how teague perform, that not a RICK SUND PROBLEM THAT WOODY JR POOR DECISION, FIRE LD.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
1:51 pm
LD is scared McGrady and Stuckey gonna post of Jeff.
He was scared Andre Miller was gonna post Jeff, but Miller couldn’t keep up with Jeff’s speed and was completely dominated by Jeff.
And LeBron couldn’t handle Rondo recently either.
LD doesn’t like Jeff Teague. Must be a veterans coach. Rest of those have been fired.
But we’ll never know about McGrady and Stuckey, because LD never put Jeff in the game to see.
I guess LD was afraid Bibby was going to post up Jeff also Friday night by not playing him when it mattered.
Fire LD. No GM/Ownership group in history can cover for his incompetence.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
2:03 pm
I guess all PG’s all of a sudden have bad nights against Jeff Teague, because he has handled all of them recently defensively.
Astro Joe – My point was it is impossible for us to shorten the rotation, as one blogger suggested, and get some chemistry, as you suggested. Because we will be playing a different lineup depending on who we play in the playoffs.
So to get chemistry by playing the same 5 and getting the rotation set, we can’t do that, unless you want to start Collins every night and play Josh at 3. Am I making any sense?
If we open with the C’s, we’ll almost assuredly start big if Shaq and Jermaine are healthy. And we’ll need Teague on Rondo to spell Hinrich (not according to LD however). But that puts Josh covering Pierce and Green. Uh-oh.
Bulls – who knows what lineup we’ll throw out there. I think LD just shows up in fetal position.
Same with the Heat.
And against the Magic, it’s big time. But then we got Josh covering wings. Uh-oh.
LD refuses to play a 9 man, sane rotation that will give us a chance. 10 when we play Collins some. We could even go 12 deep giving Hilton and Etan some burn.
But not going to happen. Why?
My speculation is that Drew is getting 1.5m next season whether he stays or goes, so at this point, I doubt he cares. Just play the vets, take the easy way out, tell the media what they want to hear, and wait for the axe to fall. If it doesn’t fall, Coach next year and get your money. Simple
Bird
March 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
LD says that he wants to get JC1 ready because he’s going to need him down the stretch. I guess he’s not going to need Teague down the stretch.
drmaryb (*_-)
March 21st, 2011
2:09 pm
Spiritual Vitamin!
Between the Hoop-La? Take a minute to be aware of The Times:
(This is off topic, so “Get to Scrollin”, if you don’t Believe.)
____________
In response to slimjr’s post a few blogs bag re:
The End of Man’s Rule over The World!
__________
“Matthew 24:3-8 (New International Version, ©2011)
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.”
________________
I know that this blog is an escape from the real world, but fellas, remain on the watch and don’t get caught up.
- drmaryb -
Big Daddy
March 21st, 2011
2:10 pm
Astro Joe, while I hear what you are saying, it is still undeniable that LD has not used his bench, including Jeff Teague, in a way that is going to help the team or Teague in the long run. You can’t say how much you believe in the kid one day and then 2 games later he gets a DNP-CD. Of the games like he had last week, I never saw Stoadamire, Law, JC2 play like that the entire time they were here. As far as rotations being set, what is going to happen in Hendrich goes down just before the playoffs or at the beginning. Is he going to play Crawford at the point? Teague may be just what we need going against Jameer Nelson if we play Orlando.
Our woes are being noticed by many of the sports writers and some or pointing to Drew’s offense as the reason why the team looks dysfunctional. Checkout this writeup from statscube.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/03/19/statscube-the-demise-of-the-hawks/
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
2:16 pm
to the writer of that article…1st and number one fact…Woodson was NOT fired!!! do some damn research if you wanna be or seem credible!!!
ICECOLD
March 21st, 2011
2:18 pm
Fire Sund
Fire Drew
Fire Dominique
Fire the ball boy who passes the ball to Josh so he can practice on his jumper.
Fire the guy who picks up Jamal jumpsuit when he comes in to play the point.
Rehire Mike Woodson and then fire him again for letting LD be his assistant coach.
_______________
That was funny as hell… but u might be right….
Lol.
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
2:21 pm
@SteveW…my guess is LD’s termination pay is tied to his/the teams performance this year. he probably only sees a portion of what his salary would be if he is retained for his final year if the Hawks slip from the Woodson days. my guess anyway…and it’s how i woulda presented a contract offer to him…especially given that he was bitin’ at the bit to get a HC job!!!
Daniel
March 21st, 2011
2:22 pm
tremaine- I am in total agreement with ICECOLD, funny as h.., and probably more true than we can take.
Big Daddy
March 21st, 2011
2:36 pm
@mykhalc. You read the article and the only thing you came away with was he said Woodson was fired. While maybe the words “You are fired” were not stated. In most business circles that I am aware of if you are told your contract will not be renewed, that means you are fired. It may sound nicer but the meaning is the same. Also, I did not see a comment at the bottom of the article by you about that. I did see one by Najeh.
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
2:39 pm
Big Daddy, my guess is that LD believes in Pape Sy too but that doesn’t mean that he will play him in meaningful time for the remainder of the season. I agree with the sentiment that Teague should get more back-up PG minutes than Jamal… but I would cap those minutes right around 10-12 per game.
SteveW, I agree that the starting line-up du jour strategy makes it hard to build chemistry heading into the playoffs. At the same time, I don’t like the notion of using games for player development at this stage of the season. The 5-man unit MUST come first at this point, not any individual player.
vava, I don’t recall the game where LD tried to play Collins and later said “it was too fast for him”.
If LD’s offense is predicated on a “5 Man Attack” (as he said shortly after being hired), then starting out with a player who struggles to score in the scheme (Collins or Teague) kind of defeats the offense from the jump ball. My guess is that both could do better in a different scheme, but I’d much rather see those guys ride the pine then have LD try to install a new scheme at game #70.
I’m not thrilled with LD either, but the cards he is trying to play is not a winning hand. It wasn’t last year with Woody and it isn’t this year with LD. And if they bring in Larry Brown, Coach K or someone else next season and make no roster changes… many of the same issues will re-surface. I personally think that Woody maxed out the “sacred core” with 53 wins in the regular season. Maybe LD could find a way to max out the talent in a playoff run (2 wins in the second round). But this isn’t a championship-level roster, coaching staff, front office or ownership group. Slightly changing anyone of those problems won’t fix things.
ICECOLD
March 21st, 2011
2:41 pm
Numbers ain’t everything… the problem is zaza… have u ever noticed , when the he is in the game.. no matter what he does , if the hawks are winning, the lead shrinks and it ends up tied, or if the hawks are losing , as soon as he gets in, it slowly turns into a blow out
Then when Marvin , jamal, and zaza is on the floor at the same time , it gets real ugly real quick… if you don’t believe me , watch the game tomorrow… zaza might look good as some plays , but he look good at those plays because how of how bad he look on most plays , he is like a little kid, he does one thing good and its like… GOOD JOB.. WHO’S A GOOD BOY… I’M SO PROUD OF YOU FOR TRYING EVEN THOUGH YOU LOST… Marvin is the same way…
Think about it.. what are your thoughts about it..
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
MannyT,
“Fire Woody, fire LD, fire in the hole.”
Nice. An early Steely Dan reference.(even if it was unintentional)
Actually those song lyrics are somewhat apt to the Hawks these days:
“With a cough, I shake it off, and walk around my yellow stripe.
Should I hide and eat my pride. or wait until it’s good and ripe.
My life is boiling over. It’s happened once before.
I wish someone would open up the door”
“Don’t you know there’s fire in the hole
and nothing left to burn.
I’d love to run out now.
There’s nowhere left to turn.”
Ouch, MannyT.
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
2:53 pm
If Ken Sugiura is writing the blogs these days, can we please get his picture on the AJC Hawks page too?
joey
March 21st, 2011
3:11 pm
123…………
phil
March 21st, 2011
3:19 pm
Wow. They beat the Pistons. Stop the presses. A team that stinks worse than we do. The Bulls will run us out of the arena in a day or 2…..
tyger
March 21st, 2011
3:34 pm
Lately, a lot of the heat has fallen into LDs lap. I disagree with the masses, those issues were obvious last spring, during the Orlando massacre. However, mgt. did nothing to address those issues, besides signing JJ to a $120M contract.
LD brought ball movement to the Hawks. Everyone was in 100% agreement that the Hawks offense needed diversification. They could not compete with JJ dribbling the clock out and heaving last second off balance shots. Unfortunately, the new offense is providing worse shooters with more shots and JSmoove has once again taken to the long jump shot.
The Bibby trade was a last ditch effort to salvage a sinking season that has backfired. Neither the defense nor offense has improved with Hinrich and the cost was way too high. Jordan Crawford and this year’s #1 pick? Crawford has had two 25 pt. outbursts and has become a regular part of the Wizards rotation and who needs a #1 pick this year more than the Hawks?
Fortunately, the season is grinding to a slow halt. The Hawks will disgrace themselves before a half-empty playoff house. The coach will get fired and God-willing, the team will get sold to ownership that can afford it.
Deeper questions lie in how to get better? Many franchises go through peaks and valleys, but somehow maintain there winning brands. Lakers, Jazz, Spurs, Celtics, Heat, etc. They identify their core. They don’t hesitate to pull the trigger. They have extremely strong managers and they draft well. They know how they want to play and they get players that fit.
The Hawks do none of these things well.
Katie
March 21st, 2011
3:48 pm
@ICECOLD
Actually, I have come to somewhat like ZaZa’s gameplay recently, more specifically, since the trade deadline. I think they may have tried to deal him but that didn’t work out. Then he had that DNP-CD against the Warriors and the very next game against the Trail Blazers he balled out. I mean, he was our leading scorer AND had the most rebounds at 19/10(it might have been 9, but i think it was 10).
it’s funny, earlier this season my boyfriend and i went to a game where he bought a Pachulia shirt. I couldn’t believe it, especially while clutching my Horford shirt. I asked him why he was getting Pachulia and he said because he plays his best when he’s pissed off. I think now it’s true.
tremaine
March 21st, 2011
3:48 pm
tyger- the hawks hired LD because they thought he was going to make them better. They are worse. That is on him and management.
Katie
March 21st, 2011
3:49 pm
**he was our leading scorer AND had the most rebounds at 19/10(it might have been 9, but i think it was 10) against denver the other night
jhan
March 21st, 2011
4:29 pm
This team looked good early on when they were dedicated to playing defense & running the new offense. They also looked good right after they got Hinrich – his commitment to defense seemed to rub off on everyone else initially. It seems to me that this team doesn’t feel the need to bring maximum effort & intensity every game. I would like to put that on the coach but I won’t. If a grown man always needs someone to keep him motivated then he is only a man in the physical sense. It is time for the little boys on this team to be traded. I’m not in the locker room so I don’t know who they are but my short list would include: Josh, Marvin & JC1. I would like to see what Josh could do if he really dedicated himself to playing defense & rebounding. I’m pretty sure his offense would increase as well through sheer effort on the boards.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
4:34 pm
Astro Joe, you said”I’m not thrilled with LD either, but the cards he is trying to play is not a winning hand.”
I way totally disagree with much of this statement. Of course, Sund/ASG could’ve/should’ve brought in Shaq and/or Dampier, but didn’t. That being said:
LD has totally lost any discipline Josh may have had. He’s shooting way worse % wise than last season. He’s gone from 4 three’s all of last season, to I’m afraid to look at how many this season. This has devastated our low post game, that LD said Josh would be doing more of, not less, this season.
LD has mismanaged the rotations and roles on this team, and has def. not held players accountable or changed poor habits they may have.
Teague is not just player development anymore. He’s in helping this team win mode right now with his defense and up tempo style. LD wants to run, and then DNP’s our fastest player who fits with the athleticism of this team.
He played Bibby and Mo to the detriment of the team. And yes, he had other options in Wilkens and Teague.
He continues to play Jamal at Point which clearly hurts this team.
He doesn’t demand the offense run thru Al for no apparent reason.
LD is a worthless Head Coach. He may be a good assistant, I don’t know. And he hasn’t done everything wrong, he’s done some nice things.
But the negatives way out weigh the positives at this point, and he is a total, unmitigated disaster as a Head Coach.
When you see the games, you know….
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
4:41 pm
@Big Daddy…yep probably ‘coulda’ keep readin’ but that statement zapped any momentum that i mighta had about readin’ his perspective. most of us have been watchin’ this team for 6+years…less time with Al…but bottomline is, it’s ALL been said by the bloggers right here!!! i’ve read it and said it MANY times over the years. KA BOOM PLEASE!!!
Ken Sugiura
March 21st, 2011
4:41 pm
a lot of spice today. i guess you didn’t go for the “the hawks won! all problems are solved!” line of thinking, huh. (joke)
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
4:41 pm
kept not keep…
Najeh Davenpoop
March 21st, 2011
4:43 pm
“the cards he is trying to play is not a winning hand”
It is not a championship hand, and we all know this, but it is a better hand than this and a better hand than one that should suffer the worst playoff series sweep in NBA history.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
4:45 pm
Woodson wasn’t renewed because we were told:
The team had reached it’s ceiling with him as the Head Coach
They had tuned him out in the 2nd round of the playoffs
He didn’t utilize Jeff Teague enough during the season and playoffs, and to a lesser extant Jason Collins during the Orlando series.
Under LD:
We have regressed in record, scoring, playoff seeding, player development, discipline, +/-, and competiveness against elite teams. We beat the Lakers 3 straight at home until this season, when we call a 14 point loss good. Same with the Nuggets. Boston slaughtered us.
Many of our losses have been “name your score” losses, where the opposing team could have beaten us as badly as they would have wanted, like LA at LA, the Sixers, the Hornets, the Bucks, Boston, Chicago etc.
And LD still hates Jeff Teague.
LD is making 1.5m regardless. Check to see if there are performance incentives anywhere. It is 1.5m guaranteed for next season.
LD is do not care mode possibly. We as fans are getting there. But we do still care.
And the cat lost us 2 first picks by his negligence also.
LD=Disaster..
Somebody help!
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
4:49 pm
Ken S – I’m in wanting the Hawks to win mode.
But after that I’m in LD needs to go mode!
And I defended Woodson up to the end, and would not have been upset if the Hawks would have kept him. I agreed with Sund on the reasoning for the most part of he and the Hawks parting ways.
But LD is way past time to go. This guys horrid. And that’s not to say Woody was good, but he had improved the record every year, got us to 53 wins and a 3rd seed. LD is horrible as a HC.
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
4:50 pm
@SteveW…you obviously know more about LD’s contract than i do.
J.J.M
March 21st, 2011
4:57 pm
lol how many times will josh say the same thing “more energy”
Katie
March 21st, 2011
5:00 pm
It’s about time The Hawks jumped on the Charlie Sheen bandwagon, and started winning.
ag
March 21st, 2011
5:08 pm
I was not a big JCII believer, but I am starting to change my mind. For those of you saying he is doing it with a bad team, well Hilton Armstrong AND Kirk Hinrich did not do what JCII is doing! JCII is averaging 24.5 ppg over last three games and has four games this season when he scored at least 20 points. Hinrich has three games over 20. I doubt Hilton has a game over 20 in his career. I guess the worst thing about the trade, was Hilton was a throw in. Why could they not throw in Thorton or Yi Jianlian?
SWAT Native
March 21st, 2011
5:13 pm
@ Katie – I think the Hawks are alredy following Sheen’s example: they’re claiming to be winning when they’re actually losing…
clancy
March 21st, 2011
5:18 pm
@ ag,
Hilton barely saw the floor, and Kirk’s game is not based on chucking up shots. Jordan has a usage over 27% and a TS% of .457. That’s really not good.
Again, glad the kid is getting a chance to show what he can do, but that would not be helpful to Atlanta right now. He’d be sitting, for one, but even if he played that’s actually more in line with chucking than what we get from Jamal.
Rufus1
March 21st, 2011
5:24 pm
No excuses for LD when…
Your coach thinks JC1 guarding DRose of TY Lawson is a sound basketball strategy. When your WORST shooter, take the most shots. When you refuse to play the players you drafted. You don’t get to claim “BAD ROSTER” when you keep making those kind of decisions.
Rufus1
March 21st, 2011
5:25 pm
Correction..”Your coach thinks JC1 guarding DRose or TY Lawson is a sound basketball strategy”
doc
March 21st, 2011
5:28 pm
here you go myk, salary info on LD:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/frank_hughes/06/19/hawks.drew/index.html
“follow the money”, as one of my fav blog people writes and i concur 100%.
Starrman
March 21st, 2011
5:39 pm
LD,is like Stevie Wonder
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
5:54 pm
wow, doc, that was quite an article. it spells things out with brutal clarity. suddenly the hawks screwy season makes a lot more sense.
(i wrote in all lowercase just for you)
W.R.Terrell
March 21st, 2011
5:56 pm
I started quesioning LD’s decisions when Jordon Crawford rode the bench. Jeff Teague just has to hold on for a few more games and then LD will be gone for good. I am looking forward to next year, with the likes of youngbloods, Teague and Hilton Armstrong. Zsa Zsa will play much better under a coach who knows what coaching is about. We are stuck with ISO Joe but under a firm and smart hand he could blossom into more then he is now. That “smoove” person needs to be in a deal that may garnish us a first rounder, he needs to go because this is the best he will ever be and that is not saying too much. Good coaching can’t help him, the boy has no basketball IQ, and he is seriously basketball iliterate. Marvin is still worth the gamble under a good coach, with some off season tutelage on how to play on the inside and the weight room he could definitely be worth that gamble next season if there is a next season. Al Horford could benefit also with a strong and dedicated effort over the summer, especially in the weight room. Damian Wilkins needs to be signed, just by his hustle alone could be catching and spread to the rest of the team, he definitely has desire and effort. We need not let Kirk go anywhere, he’s a class act and hardcore ball player. Jamal does not need to be resigned, the HAWKS need the money to pick up a few wiley vets. There will be some beef out there looking for a job next year who can still be very productive. We play Chicago tomorrow night and I will watch because I just want this season to be gone. I am looking forward to next year with the players we have, some new additions and a new coach, hopefully, Dominique, someone the players will respect and learn from, afterall, he is and always will be our HUMAN HIGHLIGHT FILM, he would dedicate himself to the job and I think, well I know we would be a team that has skill, desire, heart, never say die attitude and hate to lose kind of team.
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
6:00 pm
yo doc…thanks for the link my friend!!! i’ll digest it and then force myself to throw-up…which is what i do with all things Hawks related right now…KA BOOM PLEASE!!!
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
6:02 pm
doc,
I had read the article before, but the very end is telling regarding today’s discussion:
“Sund may be able to fall back on some shrewd personnel moves over the past few years to save his job. But the fact that ownership overruled his decision on whom to hire as coach will undoubtedly create a chasm that likely will never be completely bridged; now, one side can always cast blame for a lack of success.”
“These are, unfortunately, the economic realities of an NBA whose financial paradigm is admittedly broken and requires immediate fixing.”
“In the end, whether teams admit it or not, everybody suffers.”
Ouch. So we are suffering because the ASKG “low balls” their entire operation.
And Sund now can tell the owners “I told you so”, though I’m not sure that would help his own re-negotiation.
I agree with myk: Ka-Boom!
Starting with (please God please) new owners.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
6:03 pm
LOL, myk, I guess I know you well my friend.
I posted my last post without seeing yours at 6:00pm.
Jae Evolution
March 21st, 2011
6:04 pm
Well as far as looking to the offseason for possible moves. We start by not re-signing any of our ‘big’ bench scrubs, Armstrong, Collins, Thomas, and Powell, this clears about 3 million to sign possible FA’s. We trade Zaza to the Nuggets for Mozgov, he is a young legit 7′1 who has shown he can be a quality center (rebound, block, but fouls a lot). We attempt a sign and trade with the Clippers for Jamal, and in return they send over Randy Foye and DeAndre Jordan (he would also have to sign and trade). I think they would do this because they really have limited bench scoring, and this is an up and coming young Clippers team who wants to make noise. Use any remaining space to sign quality minimums and we can be really good next year. Keep in mind, I don’t know if this puts us over the cap or not.
drmaryb (*_-)
March 21st, 2011
6:05 pm
Surmized!
“Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
2:39 pm”
_______________
Just WOW! That post was brilliant. You just rolled up 10,000 comments into one. Absolutely Brillante!
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
6:08 pm
@Sautee…yep…LOL
honest_abe
March 21st, 2011
6:14 pm
i’ve never changed my opinion that getting rid of josh is a plus for this team. like everyone on this blog knows, the guy could be one of the fiercest rebounders in the league and one of the best finishers on the break. but no he just continues to be the most stubborn guy on the team. i really think that josh believes that his skill level is on par with lebron, dwade and kobe. what else would explain always leading the break, shooting all those jumpers and acting like a prima donna. come on man.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
6:16 pm
jhan,
Glad to see you’re still around. Great post at 4:29.
My favorite line: “It is time for the little boys on this team to be traded.”
Big Freakin’ Co-sign, buddy.
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
6:25 pm
“1) Al Horford’s inability to protect the rim allowing free access at will to quick players and or strong big men.”
Red Alert!!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AL for NENE yesterday!
Slimjr
March 21st, 2011
6:41 pm
The Hawks looked good early on because they had the 4th easiest schedule in the league in the first half! Now they are playing playoff caliber teams in the last month and a half of the season.
doc
March 21st, 2011
6:44 pm
rev et. al., folks poo-poohed the article when it came out saying it wasnt true. seems to have spelled out the coming days quite well.
seems the old gang arrived today.
ag
March 21st, 2011
6:55 pm
Astro Joe
I understand you siding with LD and sticking with the same lineup. I understand that it is a bad time to develop young players and Teague should only get 10-15 minutes. You also agree with LD that the team needs chemistry going into the playoffs.
Well, you have bought into the “core” philosophy. Yes, you made great points about how much LD wants Teague to develop and play and only Teague is holding himself back, but really, he has to play. He did have some very bad shooting games, but the alternatives did as well (Marvin & JC).
With the “core” we have been run out the gym. Although he is not a polished scorer, Teague gives us good defense. You also make the other team adjust to us (imagine McGrady bringing the ball up court with Teague defending him?)
Lastly, how far are we going with our “core”? We will be extremely lucky to win a game in the first round, much less win a series. With that in mind are we a little like the Wizards, Clippers, etc. playing for the future? So why not start Jeff Teague?
drmaryb (*_-)
March 21st, 2011
7:15 pm
For Sale! (Please Buy Me … I’m Really Good)
“News
Talks continue in possible sale of Thrashers
Story posted 2011.03.17 at 08:13 PM EDT

By Chris Vivlamore
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Talks are ongoing with three groups interested in purchasing the Thrashers franchise and keeping it in Atlanta, team president Don Waddell said on Thursday. The discussions primarily have been held with two entities, but Waddell said he didn’t want to eliminate the third party yet.
The groups have shown interest in the purchase of the Thrashers — and not in becoming additional investors in the Atlanta Spirit, which also owns the Hawks and Philips Arena, Waddell said. He has dealt directly with three entities, two groups and an individual, and two are from Atlanta.
“There is not much new to report, but talks continue,” Waddell said.
Two other groups have also expressed interest in purchasing the Thrashers, Hawks and Philips Arena from the Atlanta Spirit, as previously reported by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. One has held meetings with officials from the NBA and the NHL. However, Waddell said he has had no direct dealings with a group interested in purchasing all three properties.
At least five non-disclosure agreements, the first step in a purchase, have been procured by the Raine Group, a New York-based banking firm hired by the Atlanta Spirit to seek a buyer or additional investors for all or part of the three properties.
Last month, Atlanta Spirit co-owner Michael Gearon Jr. told the AJC there was a sense of urgency to find a buyer or additional investors to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta. The franchise has lost $130 million over the past five years, court documents show.”
__________________
On February 28, 2010
The ASKG vehemently denied to all that they were for sale.
Aye ASKG! You Lie! Please leave the keys under the flower plot and just leave Atlanta, GA in the middle of the night. We promise not to press charges if you just go away NOW! Bye Bye – 8 orangutans! No one with a brain cell left wants to partner up and join your feces throwing group.
rusty
March 21st, 2011
7:24 pm
Woody was bad,ld out & out is horrible.. How the hell do you play mb,mo,jc1 at pg over jt & jc2 .the only way this team could possibly do anything in the playoffs would to all out play an uptempo game with jt at pg. It don’t stand a chance playing our slow half court game of shooting jump shots.does anyone here agree with me
ag
March 21st, 2011
7:29 pm
Clancy:
If JCII is giving you what JCI is giving you, why did we trade JCII?
ICECOLD
March 21st, 2011
7:29 pm
Katie
March 21st, 2011
3:48 pm
@ICECOLD
Actually, I have come to somewhat like ZaZa’s gameplay recently, more specifically, since the trade deadline. I think they may have tried to deal him but that didn’t work out. Then he had that DNP-CD against the Warriors and the very next game against the Trail Blazers he balled out. I mean, he was our leading scorer AND had the most rebounds at 19/10(it might have been 9, but i think it was 10).
it’s funny, earlier this season my boyfriend and i went to a game where he bought a Pachulia shirt. I couldn’t believe it, especially while clutching my Horford shirt. I asked him why he was getting Pachulia and he said because he plays his best when he’s pissed off. I think now it’s true.
__________________________________________________
thats what im saying… he looks good sometimes even though its basic.., he does so bad, that when he does something good… you really take notice because you are suprise….. just watch next game… when the hawks are playing.. then watch when zaza get in the game… and see how the score change dramatically for the worst.. but its not just him.. its marvin too.. marvin been doing a decent job lately too.. but still.. the same thing.. when he is in, ( especially at the same time as zaza) watch how the score dramatically change
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
7:32 pm
From the article about the LD hire being all about the money;
Think about it: If Casey would get, say, $2 million — two-thirds of what he was paid in Minnesota — and Drew is getting $1 million this coming season and $1.5 million next season, with just 50 percent guaranteed during a lockout, as one source indicated, the Hawks would pay out less than half of what they would have paid either Johnson or Casey or even Jackson, the fourth candidate who is making more than $1 million a year as an analyst for ESPN..
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
7:35 pm
Steve W,
Josh was 0-7 on three point attempts last season. So far this season, he is 46-141 (33%) from behind the arc.
The bad thing is his FG% from 3 has gotten worse as the season progresses.
October: 67%
November: 35%
December: 39%
January: 35%
February: 20%
March: 27%
ICECOLD
March 21st, 2011
7:36 pm
starting five should be
Teague
Joe
Josh
Horford
Armstrong
that should be the starting five.. no if ands or buts about it.. win or lose..stick to something… if you need a big man or play small ball.. you can do it in the process of the game…you dont have to scoop down to they level… you dont c the lakers going small ball when they play golden state.. or any other team.. teams stick to their starting five win or lose… not play down to another team level.. it does something to yo head when you dont know if you are starting or not, or if you think you starting and then you dont,….
STICK TO ONE STARTING FIVE AND GO WITH IT SO PLAYERS CAN KNOW THEIR ROLLS!!!!!!!
vava74
March 21st, 2011
8:09 pm
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
4:34 pm
Vehemently co-sign!
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:20 pm
SteveW,
about this: “And that’s not to say Woody was good, but he had improved the record every year, got us to 53 wins and a 3rd seed.”
OK, Steve, how many games would Woody have won this year, given the number of games lost to injuries, Bibby’s further decline, and an unraveling of chemistry?
clancy
March 21st, 2011
8:21 pm
I can’t take anyone seriously who wants Hilton Armstrong in the starting lineup.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
8:24 pm
vava,
I agree with SteveW as well. I say the Hawks should cut their losses after the playoffs and find a new head coach. I suppose they should not hire a new coach until after the find out if there will be a lockout.
I can’t believe that Woody’s stubborn style of coaching got the most out of this very athletic team. I believe that this year’s team has a higher ceiling than 54 wins and a second round blowout playoff sweep. Yet they are regressing badly. The team is a mess right now – a HOT SMELLY MESS under Drew’s leadership.
clancy
March 21st, 2011
8:26 pm
@ ag,
I said he’s more of a chucker – Jamal’s usage rate is lower and TS% is higher. But I would have been fine with having either JC next season, and JC2 is cheaper – but your post saying he’s contributing more than Kirk is off-base. Anyone looking only at point totals, without considering TS%, is missing a huge part of the story.
darrell starks
March 21st, 2011
8:36 pm
ICECOLD YOUR 100PERCENT RIGHT, LD have stick with the big line up at all time, and keep horford at powerforward, there for you will see and improvement thru out the course,
4years STARTING JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD is not going 2 cut it us fan have seen enough, try something new and stick with it.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
8:37 pm
O’Brien – I know, I’ve posted the numbers before. Woody finally had Josh where he needed to be, and where LD said he would be more. Now look at the monstrosity.
Sautee – How do you know the team chemistry would have unraveled under Woody the way it has under LD this season? If Sund would have kept Woody, which i’m glad he didn’t, but would have been ok if he would’ve, he would’ve made a statement to the players that Woody was in charge. And Woody would have put on a Buford Pusser probably in the preseason to get their attention again.
As I stated before Woody was gone, I would be ok with it if I had more confidence in the organization to hire the right guy. You know, the organization that has gone thru Terry Stotts, Lon Kruger and the likes before Woody came along.
And you, or I, or anybody else has any idea how many games Woody would have won if he would have stayed. Anyone that says they do is a liar.
And LD did well when we had the most injuries earlier in the year. The team has been slowly disintegrating throughout the season, even obtaining Hinrich hasn’t stopped it. Disagree?
And it’s LD’s fault, and I could care less whether you agree with that statement or not.
darrell starks
March 21st, 2011
8:38 pm
Teague should starte with the energy he bring 2 the team.
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, HILTON.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
8:39 pm
“And you, or I, or anybody else has any idea how many games Woody would have won if he would have stayed. ” In my last post, it should read, “And you, or I, or anybody else who says they know how many games Woody would have won if he would have stayed…”
Sorry for the typo.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:43 pm
SteveW,
Whoa boy, whoa.
I was NOT trying to ask an antagonistic question. At all.
When vava co-signed your post, I went back and looked at it. The statement I re-posted just made me wonder if you had given the idea any thought.
And I didn’t ask how many he’d win. I asked how many YOU thought he would win. I was asking for your opinion on this, NOT trying to make a point. Geez. Cool down a little.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
8:45 pm
SteveW,
What is a “Buford Pusser” or do I want to know?
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
8:48 pm
Sautee, Woody won 47 the season that Josh, Al and Marvn all missed at least 10 ames each.
Najeh, I’m pretty sure that I qualified Woody maxing out the team in the regular season. I understand that I am one of the few around here who doesn’t care about margins of defeat in the playoffs… losing is losing. I have long since rejected the idea that “losing better” is a goal for a professional franchise. If we lose the 2nd round in 5 games this season, I won’t be throwing any parties.
AG, Teague’s defensive value (IMO) was trumped with the arrival of Hinrich. Hinrich is capable of defending, knocking down open jumpers and is less prone to the mistakes of an inexperienced PG.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:50 pm
AJ,
Nice catch. That’s probably a good indicator.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
8:51 pm
Sautee,
I understand SteveW’s emotion. I’m feeling it too. I feel like I have been sold a bill of goods by Drew and the Hawks organization. I keep telling myself that the Hawks are a playoff basketball team so be content, but I know bad basketball when I see it and it ain’t fun to watch.
What’s so frustrating is that this team could be so EXCITING to watch if they had a head coach who took control and valued having a point guard who could get the whole team playing a fast-paced style of basketball on offense and defense.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:55 pm
SteveW,
You and I had already “agreed to disagree” about where blame most laid. I was hoping to open a new thread since we had worn one down to the nub today.
I should have been clearer, in hindsight, but to be honest, I had already forgotten the you and I were on different sides of that argument. So don’t think I was pickin’ at ya’.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:57 pm
“that”
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:14 pm
Sautee – And I’m in no way claiming Woody is a good Coach. He’s not. I just didn’t trust ASG to get a better one. And I guess you follow the games, and have a right to your opinion, like I do to mine. And I’ve stated repeatedly LD has done many things correct and have listed them.
But overall, he is probably one of the 5 worst coaches in the NBA right now, and is single handidly destroying this team. Every team has had injuries. And let’s look sometime at some horrible Hawks losses and you was out for us, and who was out for the other side.
A few examples:
Who was hurt for us when the Heat destroyed us Friday? Udonis was out for the Heat
Who was out for us against the Nuggets? Nobody
Who was out for us when crushed by Chicago? Nobody, but Carlos Boozer was out for them
Who was out for us when LA crushed us at home? Nobody
Who was out when the Knicks spanked us by 13 at home? Nobody but Billups was out for NY
BTW – You can’t use Bibby for an excuse for any of the above losses. These were all post trade obliterations with a fully healthy team, as healthy as NBA teams are this time of year, and many of them occurred at home and/or when the other team wasn’t at full strength.
Again, your entitled to your opinion. But look at the facts.
No injuries to lean on
No Bibby or Mo’ to blame.
No road to trip to whine about
Just plain stinkin’ – and it’s because of LD. Now I know the players should man up, play regardless of their coach etc.
But it’s pretty hard when you not on the floor. Or when you totally disregard the coach and there are no consequences.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:15 pm
“and you was out for us, and who was out for the other side.” “You” should be “who”.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:20 pm
AJ – With Teague, it’s not a matter of whether Hinrich should start or not with me. But Hinrich doesn’t need to play 48 minutes per. And Teague gives a nice 15 minute rest for him off the bench, and keeps up the defensive pressure.
But the last two games Teague has been out of the rotation entirely. And the Chicago game 9 or 10 games ago night also. That’s the issue.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:20 pm
Sautee – Thanks for the clarification
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
9:20 pm
SteveW,
I know you have a bigger fish to “sauté” but I am really wondering what a Buford Pusser is.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:22 pm
Rev- Sheriff in Walking Tall
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
9:24 pm
oh yeah. Man that takes me back to my childhood.
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
9:26 pm
SteveW, I agree and said as much earlier. 10-12 minutes for Teague feels about right to me. Some continue to suggest that he should start, which I vehemently disagree with as we need 5 capable offensive players to run this offense that is 3rd worse since the All-Star game.
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
10:00 pm
@Joe…co-sign on the benefits of Kirk. Teague needs minutes but Kirk needs to run this team…at least try to run it. KH/JJ/JS/AH/HA…roll with it ’til the big KA BOOM!!!
Master of the Obvious
March 21st, 2011
10:03 pm
Teague and wilkins (who should both be starting) are very capable offensively. They are both SLASHERS. They get to the cup and draw fouls which is a dynamic that we never had with JJ and now its nonexistant at all with Josh and Horford also going peremeter. Whats Our record when Teague starts? Not only that, but they bring speed and defense.
We don’t need all that (jumpshooting) offensive firepower thats been the problem the whole season. We DO need more Freethrow attempts(a product of attacking the rim)and Defense.
Teague (Like Rose, westbrook, and Rondo) stabilizes the PG position for us with his speed, on ball defense, and ability to get to the line. While Kirk is good, he’s just another jumpshooter on the team. He does however stabilize the bench. JT is also a better ballhandler at this point that Kirk. Teague is the future, Kirk is just support.
Jae Evolution
March 21st, 2011
10:04 pm
Knicks just crumbled during crunch time against the Celtics, it was tough to watch them play at the end.
Master of the Obvious
March 21st, 2011
10:08 pm
Starting linups are about balance, not just offensive(specefically jumpshooting) firepower.
Again, whats the Hawks record with Teague Starting at the PG spot?
cp
March 21st, 2011
10:10 pm
at least the knicks lost again
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
10:29 pm
Wow. Despite having Amare and Melo, Knicks score 35 points in the second half. The Celtics scored 33 in the fourth quarter alone to beat the Knicks by 4. The Knicks are now 7-9 since the Melo trade, and are in 7th place.
I can understand Teague not starting, but Hinrich should play 30 – 34 mpg (imo). That way, he will stay fresh and will provide the tough physical defense we know he can. Teague needs a consistent 10 – 15 mpg (imo). What is LD going to do next year when his crutch (Jamal) is not here?
I was never a fan of the LD hire, because its hard for me to expect a guy who was the players’ therapist for 6 years to be able to instill change, and hold them accountable.
When Drew was asked in his introductory news conference about why Woodson had not taken more of Drew’s advice on how to change the culture of the team in the six years that Drew served under Woodson, Drew said, “That’s a tough question. Assistant coaches give the head coach as much information as they can. His job is to decide what to use. As a coaching staff, we did our job. Mike made a decision to use what he wanted to use.”.
Given the way the team has played, I dont know what advice LD could have given Woody. We still go ISOs more often than we should, and we still get jumper happy and cant score in crunch time, Teague still gets inconsistent PT. To make matters worse, LD can’t control Josh (or chooses not to), and Jamal has regressed.
The only big difference I see is LD ditched the switching. To me, Woody had to go, but LD was not the right hire. As Steve W said, once again the Hawks got it wrong.
Charlie Sheen
March 21st, 2011
10:45 pm
#Losing! Sizzle! Bye!
Najeh Davenpoop
March 21st, 2011
10:49 pm
I’d actually like to see Teague and Jamal get the same number of minutes — Teague exclusively at point guard, Jamal exclusively at shooting guard. I think 20 minutes or so for each of them would work just fine.
I also don’t buy the idea that Teague is more of an offensive liability simply because he can’t score. The effect Jamal has on the rest of the team, particularly when he’s at point guard, negates the value of his own individual scoring ability more often than not. When Teague is on the floor, either he’s getting in the lane or he’s getting the ball to someone close to the basket. When Jamal is on the floor at point guard, either he’s shooting jump shots or he’s passing to someone else who is shooting jump shots. Teague isn’t Jason Collins.
Jae Evolution
March 21st, 2011
10:52 pm
Well said Najeh, as far as tomorrows game I expect us to come to play. Tomorrow will be a true test of both teams with each of us having full rosters and no excuses, but with all that said if Jamal is guarding Rose, Teague gets a DNP AND we lose, I’ll lose it, Denzel in Training Day style.
sleepy
March 21st, 2011
10:55 pm
Teague is a horrible PG right now.I find it amazing that we pay out all that money for the “core” that some of you deemed untouchable and now want to tank by starting Teague .
JC2 is taking a bunch of a shots for a horrible team that has not beaten anything but other bottom dwellers since he arrived and somehow we miss what exactly about him ?
Ive never heard of a bunch of fans clinging to late first rd picks as somehow saving the franchise after paying out all that money to lottery picks they deemed untradeable…… embarrassing
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
10:59 pm
FIRE LARRY DREW
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
11:08 pm
JeJe,
Thanks for the FIRE LARRY DREW post. Just what I needed.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
11:08 pm
And I am not being sarcastic.
N.D.T.K.A.
March 21st, 2011
11:22 pm
SteveW,
Totally agree with your assessment. I remember all of the people on the blog this summer griping about hiring Avery Johnson or Byron Scott saying that they would run the Hawks into the ground. Well, now you got the therapist LD and look how they run all over him.
People always commend Phil Jackson on his ability to take talent to an elite status. Hawks have talent. So why can’t LD get more out of the talent? Woody got more than this out of the Hawks.
The article Doc posted also summed it up: cheap A$$ ASG. I would have even settled for Dwayne Casey!!!
The thing that chaps my hide is that the behavior of the players on the court directly reflects the coach. Thus Josh shooting 3’s and not rebounding or playing in the post, Jamal C. ignoring Hinrich and Teague and jacking up shots while not playing D, Joe not giving a damn, Horford getting frustrated and playing lackluster, and Marvin looking lost as always point to L.D.’s lack of accountibility and leadership. LD said at his hire that his offense would fix alot of these problems.
Really, Woody would be an upgrade at this point. I was all for giving LD a chance but his lies and coaching are atrocious. Any decent organization would have fired him already.
Coach is the problem period. Hate to bring up family but send LD home with Jr. as another selfish loser.
N.D.T.K.A.
March 21st, 2011
11:31 pm
And Michael Gearon GTFOH with those comments about how much passion you have for the Hawks and basketball and how you have been around basketball with your father and the Hawks organization.
The gigs up!! Everybody sees the ASG for what they really are cheap, dysfunctional, and bad for the Hawks, Thrashers, and Atlanta sports team fans.
ASG should sell these teams and get on the first thing smokin’ out of town!!
Ruining a decent team and killing a fan base that was already in distress.
Grandad
March 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
You know somethin’,
it’s really hard to be a fan;
when you don’t like most of the players,
you don’t like the coach, or the GM,
and you neither like nor have confidence in the owners.
I’m talking about me.
It’s like Jerry Seinfeld said:
” You’re just cheering for the laundry ”.
The Hawks have one player that I really, really like.
There are probably a half doz. teams in the league
that have two or more players that I like. *Celtics
*[not to mention the coach] *Doc
I was a Celtic from birth until ‘68.
hmmmmmmmmmmm ?
Why have I traumatized myself for 43 yrs.?
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:36 am
Michael Gearon kick Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:37 am
Hawks stink like a wet puppy dog…………………………LOL
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:38 am
Aint won nam nothin in 43 FREAKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:41 am
Hawks are not talented at all.. They are mediocre at best!!!!!!!! They have been getting lit up over the past 10 weeks….
One and Done……………………………..Phil would never coach these scrubs
Little Fawkers
March 22nd, 2011
1:17 am
Could this finally be the last year of these underachievers playing together? I hope so.
+ God bless Drew for trying but dude is not head coach material. Maybe high school basketball.
+ Josh Smith needs to go get his Tiger Woods on for another team and take that ugly jump shot with him. Get in shape dude. Your arms jiggle like a fat man.
+ Marvin Williams. Oh Marvin…. Who the Hell even are you? I only remember you for the foul that got you booted from the Celtics game back in 2008. What have you done since that?
+ Are we stuck with Joe Johnson too for another 5 years? Really?
+ Maybe the Hawks should try the old school Boston white guy majority team next year. That will come across as racist but it’s not. Everyone knows the ATL is Chocolate City (Parliament) and full of distractions for black players. Boring white guys then would only focus on basketball and not out every night partying like these Hawks do. I know they do because my female friends that work in local bars tell me they are always in there. I mean ALWAYS.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:14 am
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:20 pm
SteveW,
about this: “And that’s not to say Woody was good, but he had improved the record every year, got us to 53 wins and a 3rd seed.”
OK, Steve, how many games would Woody have won this year, given the number of games lost to injuries, Bibby’s further decline, and an unraveling of chemistry?
**********
Sautee . . SteveW summed it up perfectly. Forget who we beat while we had people hurt ( and keep in mind that we played one of the weakest schedules in the league before the new year ). SteveW’s list of teams who we DIDN’T beat when we were completely healthy, is more alarming. And we lost a good number of those games at home, a place where we’ve been dominant the past 3 years. That’s what should concern people more than anything.
Woody wasn’t a good strategist. But he knew these players weaknesses and he tried to make them play the “right way”. Woody wasn’t the main reason why this team couldn’t get to the next level.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:37 am
Drew doesn’t pay attention to detail, nor history. Because if he did, he’d see that maybe THIS is the real Jamal Crawford.
Jamal’s career per 36 minute numbers, with this season’s per 36 minute numbers in parenthesis and his 09 – 10 numbers beside that:
17.2 ppg . . . ( 17.1 ppg ) . . . 20.9 ppg
2.9 rebs . . . ( 2.0 rebs ) . . . 2.9 rebs
4.4 asst . . . ( 3.7 asst ) . . . 3.5 asst
1.1 stls . . . ( 1.0 stls ) . . . 0.9 stls
2.3 tos . . . ( 2.3 tos ) . . . 2.0 tos
41% FG . . . ( 41.8% FG ) . . .44.9% FG
35% 3FG . . . ( 33.9% 3FG ) . . . 38.2% 3FG
84.5% FT . . . ( 84.5% FT ) . . . 85.7% FT
47.6% eFG . . . ( 48.6% eFG ) . . 54.5% eFG
52.6% TS . . . ( 54.5% TS ) . . . 55.5% TS . . . TS = total shot percentage
PER: 15.3 . . . ( 14.5 ) . . . 18.4
WS/48: .075 . . . ( .079 ) . . . .143 . . . WS/48 = win score per 48 minutes
So which is more like the REAL JAMAL?
The Jamal that we saw last year . . . or the one that we’re seeing this year?
How does Drew intend to get Jamal going? By letting him take even MORE bad shots?
If the Hawks need people to run data on things basketball and team related, I’ll gladly take a job with the ASG so that I can provide Drew with this kind of information.
SMH . . . Getting Jamal going, means that instead of shooting 0 – 5 from three, he “only” shoots 2 – 7 from 3.
tjhook
March 22nd, 2011
6:21 am
Let’s assess: everyone has learned LD wants a perimeter attack. It also appears that he prefers to work with veterans instead of a mix of old and new. I propose a trade for one the NBA’s perimeter threats. Tony Parker.
I would like to see Josh, Marvin and Jeff traded for TP and Richard Jefferson. Parker is more scorer than distributor so he and Joe could be a lethal backcourt especially since defenses would have to respect his dribble drives. Jefferson is an athletic throw in. I think Popovich would look at this because he like forwards that shoot Marvin and Josh and Duncan will need help defensively. Hill is not Tony Parker but a combo of he and Teague has potential.
Next we renounce JC1 and prepare to acquire another free agent since Horford, Johnson and Parker are already under long term deal. If Drew wants to shoot jumpers let’s get a great jumpshooter!
sam'l
March 22nd, 2011
6:34 am
If the Hawks have any pride at all, they’ll take it to the Bulls tonight……..Based on what they’re saying…..I think they’ll win…..
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
7:03 am
Well I guess we are back to “GIVE TEAGUE A CHANCE!” Everytime I read a quote from a hawks coach or player, I think about the ESPN commercial with the guy talking sports out of his butt.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
7:07 am
northcyde,
I dont think the Hawks pay attention to stats.
Last offseason (after our playoff beatdown), Hubie Brown talked about the ability of coaches to get players shots at certain spots on the floor where they have the most success statistically.
And this season, we’ve been talking about stats more and more. They need a statistician on staff (imo).
It starts with Rick. Given the switch to the motion offense, most of us fans thought Jamal would take a step back, so he should have been traded when he was at his peak. Rick decided to keep him. And LD has compounded matters worse by playing him at PG, and overalll, not saving Jamal from himself.
As much as I think LD should be replaced, I dont think Rick should be the one to hire his replacement, because I have no confidence in Rick to make the right hire.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
7:08 am
From the new Hawks article;
With the team struggling of late, Drew was asked if that could mean a possible spot in the starting lineup for Wilkins. Drew hedged in his answer.
“At this point, I won’t rule out anything,” he said. “I do love what he brings to the table.”.
And we know how much he believes in Teague too. LD the politician…
Buddy Grizzard
March 22nd, 2011
7:13 am
I’m in no way claiming Woody is a good Coach. He’s not. I just didn’t trust ASG to get a better one. – SteveW
Co-signed. It’s not that ASG and Sund are incapable of identifying a top-flight NBA coach. It’s that they can’t afford one and none of them would want to be employed by the most dysfunctional ownership group in all of professional sports.
Hopefully the team can be sold by 2012-2013. They won’t fire Drew, much as he deserves it, because they won’t want to eat his $1m or so salary for next season and pay another coach. However, there might not be a season next year so we may be seeing the waning days of LD’s coaching career. Could you imagine him getting another head coaching job after he’s let go by Atlanta?
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
7:45 am
OB,
“Rick decided to keep him” (referring to Jamal)
The hard fact is that NO ONE OFFERED ANYTHING VALUABLE FOR HIM.
Everyone in the league knew that Jamal’s last year – which in my opinion was still detrimental to the team in many, many, many games and a good reason why our D went to the worse in comparison with Flip’s presence – was an anomaly as northcyde correctly pointed out.
An ANOMALY. At a management and coaching level, Jamal is perceived as badly as I constantly report here and on the Hawks Nest.
Only fools who have high octane, no defense systems may look at Jamal as anything more than a streaky shooter who an even bigger liability on D than an asset on offense.
Jamal’s D is atrocious and his offense is “going solo”, so he does not make anyone around him better which is the reason why his presence on the court to close the 3rd quarter and the whole 4th quarter keep on generating low scoring quarters for us.
Rev in Tampa
March 22nd, 2011
8:07 am
vava,
Good post about Jamal. It seems like I remember Drew expressing his desire to resign him. Maybe I am just remembering a bad dream.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
8:12 am
@ O’Brien . . . Yeah it’s obvious that they don’t pay attention to stats. Because if you went by the stats, our WORST 5-man lineup, is the very lineup that Drew is trying to force feed at times.
PG – Crawford
G – JJ
F – Marvin
PF – Smith
C – Horford
92 offensive rating . . . 123 defensive rating
In fact, when you look through those 5 man lineups, almost every lineup in which Jamal plays PG . . . FAILS. The only one that didn’t, was when Jamal was the point, and JJ and Mo Evans were the 2 and the 3, along with Smith and Horford. The rest of those lineups in which he plays PG, FAIL. So why Drew tries to force feed Jamal at the point, is beyond me.
Conversely, our best lineup is Teague + the “core” . . with Marvin. Why? Because of the defensive rating that group has.
114 offensive rating . . . 81 defensive rating
I noticed way back in November, that Drew tends to make offensive adjustments before he makes defensive adjustments. If a player is lighting the Hawks up, his response is to not try to slow down that player, it’s to put more offense in the game so that we can outscore that player.
*******************
So I agree, it’s Rick Sund who is culpable in all of this. Even if he is hamstrung by the ASG’s financial limitations, it’s up to him to make sound decisions on personnel and coaching moves.
People talk about LD costing the Hawks Jordan Crawford and a draft pick, because Sund was “forced” to trade them away for Hinrich. NO . . . Sund didn’t have to do that. If he thought that Kirk Hinrich wasn’t worth all of that, then he had no business trading those pieces to get a player who is decent, but nowhere near as good as he used to be.
It’s just been bad decision after bad decision by this ownership group and the GM all year.
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
How about one of us win the lottery tonight and buy the hawks.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
8:44 am
I woke up this morning.
LD is still coach
Sund is still GM
FIRE SUND
Not Sund
March 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
Hey hey, easy on the sund.
L.D. is a career assistant, he was given a chance to be an HC and he failed. Let’s not point fingers, instead it’s time to put together a shortlist of cheap coaches who could replace him. This season is done.
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
9:32 am
northcyde:
“…to get a player who is decent, but nowhere near as good as he used to be.” (referring to Hinrich)
I have grown to like your posts with time (I think you have improved your quality recently) but I think you are completely out of line in relation to Hinrich.
Hinrich is an excellent player (B++) and has produced very good numbers playing with this dysfunctional group of nincompoops.
You should be aware that he is injured (calf) and even so has been able to produce solid numbers across the board.
The only thing you can point at him have been the excessive numbers of TOs, however, that has been a result of two cumulative factors: initial lack of knowledge of our offense and him trying to do too many things and too hard to make our zombies wake up from their slumber.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
9:37 am
LOL @ these articles about Horford enjoying playing against NYK and Chicago. The dude put up 6 &7 in Chicago in the last game.
Wow
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
9:38 am
One more thing:
Horford and Hinrich could be a demolishing pick ‘n roll and pick ‘n pop duo.
We had a small sample of that – finally – against the Pistons and honestly I would go with this play at least 7 out of 10 possessions to close games.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
9:40 am
It’s pathetic people think LD needs more time, that it’s only his first year. He’s been with the team forever
Awful coach who is not vocal at all, who is timid, and who holds no one accountable
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
9:42 am
By the numbers
Through Sunday’s games, the Hawks ranked second to last in the NBA in second-chance points with 11.3 per game, a byproduct of ranking 26th in the league in offensive rebounds per game (9.5). Only Boston averages fewer second-chance points, at 9.9. The Hawks give up 12.7 second-chance points per game. They were also last in the league in drawing personal fouls from the opposition, 18.6 per game. They commit 18.9 per game, third fewest in the league.
^^This pretty much means no one crashes the glass and all this team does is take jumpshots.
Good job, LD. This is after EVERY SINGLE pre-game interview you talk about how we need to attack the basket. How do you make the same assertions every game yet no one follows your “plan?”
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
9:46 am
“The only thing you can point at him have been the excessive numbers of TOs, however, that has been a result of two cumulative factors: initial lack of knowledge of our offense and him trying to do too many things and too hard to make our zombies wake up from their slumber.”
Exactly
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
10:02 am
LD is way over his head and is a complete disaster.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he was hired since he always said the right things.
The problem is that he is a spineless wimp who is unable to back his own words.
ICECOLD
March 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
@clancy
March 21st, 2011
8:21 pm
I can’t take anyone seriously who wants Hilton Armstrong in the starting lineup.
___________________________________________________________
Why not start Hilton…. Collins doesn’t rebound, block shots, or score. or really play that good of defense, he just a big that can be out their to absorb other bigs… Zaza cant start, he does too much dumb stuff and he can not guard bigs, he is the mike Bibby of centers… you know Larry drew is not going to start Etan Thomas… Josh Powell… No… so who else are you going to start
Hilton Armstrong…
-He can guard bigs,
-he can score a little bit better then any other bigs on our team
-of course he will struggle with Dwight Howard just like anybody else.. but he is an aggressive player who has the capability of playing hard.
-He is actually a center and not a power forward.. So he will stay down low..
-he is athletic so he wont be the last one up the court like Collins ( because Collins be running full speed and still be last up the court!!! )
his numbers might just be 8 points, 9 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game… but with this team getting 9 more rebounds a game then usual… that is a big boost…
SO TELL ME WHY HE SHOULDN’T START AT CENTER?
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
10:27 am
Hilton averages 8, 9, and 2 a game?
ICECOLD
March 22nd, 2011
10:32 am
Also.. a new offense.. especially going from a isolation offense into a motion offense.. your team is going to shoot a lot of jump shots.. players production are going to go down.. and be more evenly spreaded. you also see people strengths and weaknesses in a motion offense… Some games are going to be lost badly.. and people are going to think its terrible coaching.. A lot of the players on this roster has had the same isolation mindset coach their whole nba career, bad habbits are hard to break.. maybe they will get better every year just like they did under Woody.. because he started with 17 wins and ended with 53 wins.. Maybe Larry Drew will start with 47 wins and end with 68 wins… You never know.. name a team thats good that doesnt have either a star center, or a star point guard… you cant!! if you wanna say Miami… Lebron and D Wade are top 5 in the league.. and they still struggle at times.. this team, until they decide to give teague the keys to this team, or get a real center… this team is not going to win a championship… they have been doing good to get to the playoffs with out either, but dont expect rings !!!
Just saying
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
10:42 am
ICECOLD,
Hilton is known to be an underachieving career scub.
I like his vitals (physical skills) but his hands are known to be the worse in the NBA and he is known to be lazy.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
11:04 am
It is 11:05 AM.
FIRE LD
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
11:09 am
FIRE RICK SUND
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
Fire JeJe
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
We play Boston Orlando Houston and San Antonio 4 games in a row
FIRE LD
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
11:29 am
vava74,
“Hinrich is an excellent player (B++) and has produced very good numbers playing with this dysfunctional group of nincompoops.”
Boy, some of your post make me think you are a straight up racist. With your (Jamal) streetball references and Tracy MCGrady (loser) references, and other slick comments. Now Hinrich is excellent (LOL). He’s average at best, good shooter and defender that’s it. No handles, mechanical, has not been able to run the point good enough for the last two teams he’s played for, not to draft a point guard, and I sure don’t see this tremendous basketball IQ I keep hearing about. He has been a backup point guard in this league for the last two years for a reason. He’s slow and has no explosion. Very fundamental, but excellent is not a word I would use to describe him. Neither would the Bulls, or the Wizards use that description either. I hope it’s not as simple as black and white with you. He sure doesn’t look like his high basketball IQ is helping him run this magical offense that no one else in the NBA knows anything about. All the Hawks problems will come to light in the playoffs when we will all see what we have seen the last 2 years. When teams play tighter defense in the playoffs, WE CAN’T SCORE. That’s why LD puts Jamal in the game so much, because the guy (Joe Johnson), who is supposed to be our go to guy, can’t score anymore. I ask you, and anyone else on this blog this question. In the playoffs, when teams double Joe, and deny Al from shooting that wide open 15 footer, who else on this team, has the ability to score? I already know your answer, Kirk Hinrich (LOL).
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
Icecold – Hilton also is not as big as Collins. Centers like Perkins, Shaq, Bogut, and Dwight would eat him alive. Collins is just bigger than Hilton, and one of the few things Collins gives us is body on body D against the larger centers in the League.
And icecold, LD wasn’t brought in to take the team back, but to take the team forward. We are in win now mode, remember? That’s why we trade good young players like JC2, who we wouldn’t play, trade 1st picks, that keep getting better and better the worse we play (now down to the 21st pick, it was 24 when we made the deal with the Wiz’s), and won’t play Teague.
And a depending on your definition of star and good, teams that are good without a star center or pg are:
Denver – I wouldn’t qualify Ty or Nene as a star, and I would say the Nuggets are good..
Grizzlies – I wouldn’t qualify Conley or Marc Gasol as a star, but the Grizzlies are good this year.
The Sixers – No center to speak of really (I like Hawes and Speights, but really?), and I wouldn’t classify JRue as a star, and they’re good.
Even Dallas – Tyson and Haywood are not stars, and Kidd used to be, but he’s lost a step or two. So you could possibly include Dallas in this mix.
Portland doesn’t have a star center or pg, but they’re good.
And some teams have star, or at least very good pg’s and c’s, yet they’re not good, like:
The LA Clippers – Mo’ and Bledsoe are really good, and so is Kaman and Jordan, but the Clips stink
The Bucks have Jennings and Bogut, but they stink
New Jersey had Devin Harris and Brook Lopez, now Deron and Brook, but they stink
Toronto has Bargnani and Calderon, but they stink
The Wizards have Wall and McGee, but they stink
And the Magic have the best center in the league with Dwight and 3 very good pg’s in Jameer, Arenas, and Duhon, yet they’re 4th in the East.
Your logic just doesn’t hold up icecold.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
On another web site, it said the Hawks turned down Kris Kaman for Marvin Williams earlier this season. Wow? I wonder if that’s really true.
darrell starks
March 22nd, 2011
11:46 am
vava74 Hilton is not a scrub, he is a solid player on defense end of the court, but for some reason he have been delt a bad hand because of the coaching he have played for who can’t coach, you tell me hilton at 6′11 can’t play center and defend and rebound in the paint, then your missing somthing because hilton is a guy who have the quickness and and athleticism who can compete at center if under the right coach.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
IF YOU STARTE HILTON AT CENTER AND HORFORD TO POWERFORD I GUARANTEE THE HAWKS WILL NOT BE RANK 26 IN REBOUNDING.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:50 am
Rod – I would agree, Kirk Hinrich and excellent are not the same. But Kirk is very good, probably a top 20 PG because of his defense, and his mid-range game. But no handles. Smart BB IQ however.
But his deficiencies are why we need Teague to play. Teague, good D, handles, and fast as almost anybody in the League. They make a great 48 mpg tandem
And Rod, I know your point about Jamal. But northcydes good post about Jamal, he’s really not that good of a scorer – 41% career shooting? Come on. I also understand LD’s point of playing him, but with his defensive liabilities, it’s just not working.
Our best combo according to the stats Northcyde pulled up is Teague with the starters. I wonder how that would close out games? Maybe LD should give that a try. Or even Teague, Jamal, JJ, Josh, and Al sometimes.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:53 am
Hilton is an athletic 6-11 235 tweener. Not good enough moves and hands to be a PF. Not enough beef to play C consistently. And he doesn’t work out enough, so he gets pushed around in the post. But he does play hard and can leap.
He’s close to a scrub however. He may be slightly above Josh Powell territory.
Now I don’t think Etan is a scrub, but LD won’t play him enough for us to ever know.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
About Nene not being a star in a previous post – I can’t consider any Center who hasn’t average 7 boards a game, or a block a game a star, sorry. And he’s not that good of a scorer either compared to your Bargnani’s and Lopez’s of the world.
But would I like the Hawks to have him? Yes, of course. But I wouldn’t trade Al for him. Al’s younger and better, plain and simple.
Now Al for Nene and Ty or Felton, it’s getting tempting.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:58 am
“Averaged” it should read in my last post
clancy
March 22nd, 2011
11:59 am
The argument to start Hilton seems to be that everyone else sucks and we don’t know that he sucks (yet). I’ve watched him (not) play all season with Washington before coming here. He’s a nice guy. He’s a good bench guy. He has no more reason starting than the other nice guys hanging out on the bench that everyone is so fed up with. Even if he is the best possible choice to start at C for the Hawks, it only says the Hawks have nothing to start there. Suggesting that putting him in the starting lineup shores up anything is beyond humorous to me.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
12:03 pm
Now could I see Hilton being a decent backup for Josh? Yes. 3 to 5 minutes spurts of energy giving Josh a breather would be a good role for him.
darrell starks
March 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
SteveW STARTING JOSH, HORFORD IN THE FRONT COURT IS ENOUGH, 4years playing together in the post is not going 2 cut it, and it shows come playoff time when every thing is half court the hawks get punish in the paint, look i no COLLINS, HILTON, ZAZA ARE NOT THE BEST IN THE WORLD AT CENTER, but size do matter and it make’s a different on defense, JOSH AND HORFORD IS JUST 2 SMALL.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 22nd, 2011
12:13 pm
THE HAWKS ARE RANK 26 REBOUNDING OUT OF 30 TEAM, so how can any one argue that statistics don’t lie.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
12:17 pm
Rod,
Your baskeball knowledge – namely, the lack of – was already exposed for a long time for me.
You have issues and biased. I don’t, I am 100% sane and fair on my assessment of people. I would love that Jamal found the fountain of wisdom and started to play bball as he could, but the fact is that he doesn’t.
The same goes for J-Smoove who wastes his talent due to his incapacity to focus and play hard and the right way all the time (you can go and check on the Hawks’ Nest my play by play summary of the first 20 minutes of the game against MIA if you don’t agree with me).
On McGrady:
This LOSER has recently said, in reply to Jeff van Gundy’s statement that McGrady could have been much better if he had not relied so much on his immense talent and worked in his game and practiced harder (like MJ and Kobe ALWAYS DID/DOES), that he did not agree that he should have practiced more/hard and did not believe that practicing mattered.
Do you need me to argue more that McGrady is a LOSER? Do I need to present you with more facts?
Read this: http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/03/tracy-mcgrady-admits-he-didnt-practice-hard/
If you show this to MJ and Kobe and ask them – privately – their opinion, they will certainly say that McGrady underachieved due to his own miss conception of what it takes to be a winner.
Do you happen to know why MJ had such a lousy last season with the Wizards (riddled with nagging injuries – tendinitis)?
Because he was such a freak for preparation that he over trained in the summer and punished his body beyond the limits of his age.
Kobe, after the loss in MIA, went to practice at midnight because he was frustrated with himself.
Winners do this. Winners know that talent alone is not enough. You need to work hard to take the next step.
And on Hinrich, you are dead wrong. Both the Bulls and Wiz had the opportunity to draft Grade A+ talent PGs, so your argument is worthless.
For instance, Thibodeau said this about him:
“Kirk Hinrich, I’ve always admired his game because of his versatility and great competitive spirit,” Thibodeau said at his introductory news conference before the impending trade. “He has the ability to play both guard positions and defend three positions. In our (2009) playoff series, he guarded Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo. He has great versatility. You can play him with Derrick (Rose) or even at small forward. That adds a lot to your team.”
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
12:26 pm
“And Rod, I know your point about Jamal. But northcydes good post about Jamal, he’s really not that good of a scorer – 41% career shooting? Come on. I also understand LD’s point of playing him, but with his defensive liabilities, it’s just not working.”
He is that good of a scorer, he just does not shoot a high percentage from the field. He is a streaky scorer, he has been his whole career. His problems this year and many other years stem from the fact that because he can handle the ball so well, people keep thinking he can run the point. He is not a point guard. We all know that, LD is the one that needs to be convinced. At this point, I have more faith in Jamal scoring than Joe. Northcyde can post all the stats he wants to, the bottom line is that on this team, the two best scorers are Jamal and Joe. They also are the only two guys on the roster who can take their man off the dribble and create a shot. Those two playing so poorly this year, is is direct reflection of why the team looks so bad. The NBA is a league of scorers. If you can’t score, you won’t win, and the Hawks right now can’t score when they really need a bucket.
bigdave
March 22nd, 2011
12:31 pm
“Even if he is hamstrung by the ASG’s financial limitations, it’s up to him to make sound decisions on personnel and coaching moves.”
absolutely! so you agree that we as fans have nothing to do w/ this. this is exactly what i meant when i used Matt Ryan as example.. no matter how many jerseys we buy.. he will suck or do well by his on merit..
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
12:35 pm
Rod,
Just for reference: Hinrich is hitting 3 pointers at .476 clip (20/42) so I am pretty comfortable with him getting the pass out of the double teams on JJ.
Your man Jamal is usually more worried about extending his record of 3+1 than to correctly launch his shots (LD even had to point that out to him recently) – he’s shooting at .339 just to refresh you a bit on the subject.
Again, I am not saying that Jamal is worthless, so don’t distort what I have to say about him.
What I say about Jamal is that he is better suited to play less minutes (maximum average of 20 and I am already conceding here) and in particular in much shorter shifts – come in, shoot, if hot, continue, if cold, out he goes.
LD has been using him completely wrong.
A good example: against DEN Jamal helped us build a nice lead (+12) with some of trade mark instant offense.
That was the moment that LD should have removed him and inserted a defensive line up since it was CLEAR AS WATER that DEN would try to make their run.
Winning basketball is all about stopping runs by your opponents.
Instead, LD kept Jamal on the floor and the lead went down and later re-inserted him to close the game with us trailing and Jamal GOT EXPLOITED ON THE PICK AND ROLL AS IF HE WAS A STATUE.
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20110316&game=DENATL
mykhalc
March 22nd, 2011
12:36 pm
like i’ve posted before until Teague SHOWS that he WANTS and WILL lead then i want him comin’ off the bench. havin’ 2 (on-court) like personalities in JJ and JT, is just too much for me to fathom right now!!! you can debate Kirk’s skills all you want but the cat wants to and will lead. he will direct the team…that’s if the other players allow him to fulfill that roll. this team and city has been waitin’ for and lookin’ for THAT leader. JJ coulda been it. Josh certainly coulda been it. Al coulda (might be) been it. it was primed for the takin’. ALL comers failed to accept the challenge…includin’ Teague (to date). i DO NOT get why at this point Teague doesn’t play with such a big chip on his shoulder that it just smacks cats in the face. instead he does the JJ…who just wreaks of $120 mil leadership. KA BOOM PLEASE!!! gimme someone that WANTS the ball, DEMANDS cats listen, DEMANDS accountability, and will get in cats faces if they don’t get with what helps the team win. and yes, LD is a HUGE part of this problem. it’s all been said…again…KA BOOM PLEASE!!!
ag
March 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
I have read many of you would rather start Hinrich instead of Teague to give us scoring options at every postion, but no lineup with put together will give us weapons at every position. I think Teague is capable of scoring (Portland, Boston game). He has to focus on what he does best. Then AJ, Mistikal, etc. are saying starting Armstrong, man you guys love going on blind dates! It is like your buddy’s girlfriend tell you all the great characteristics about a woman, but she refuses to meet you. Yet, in her past, she has dissapointed all the men she has ever been with. You look at her, admire her beauty but your other friends warn you about her.
Hilton has all the attributes of being a good player, but in NO, SAC,GS and Washington, he has never proved himself. Why do you think magically he will do well here?
sleepy
March 22nd, 2011
1:03 pm
@vava – against Denver jamal came in off the bench we were down 10 points .He and the bench got us to within 3 when psycho josh took over with the long jumpshots and turnovers. I dont why you think the coach would take out one of the best 4th quarter players in the nba with erratic as the team has been.
I would understand all this whining if JJ josh and Al were playing consistent ball because if they were then you can put in a lessor player and they could carry him while letting him just do his thing but right now none of our big three are pulling there own weight consistently so you have to play the players who have a chance to impact the game.
Josh killed all the momentum we had with silly mistakes and then JR smith went nutz AT SMALL FORWARD .
@ Rod you are right but some simply dont understand. They actually think that when jamal is on the floor the opposing coach is saying hey dont guard him he only shoots 41% for his career so that means he cant score roflmao . That some Hollinger geek speak type _hit there.
Our offense this year has done nothing but create more long jumpshots for JJ and Jamal even though they are sharing the ball more .
Woods offense while too much isolation allowed these guys to get to spots where they were most comfortable and thus more successful.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
vava,
A good GM would have found a deal for Jamal (imo).
northcyde,
Lets not forget those games where LD would go with Bibby and Jamal together down the stretch when the Hawks needed defense.
mykhalc,
I am ok with Teague coming off the bench. But LD needs to give him a consistent 10 – 15 minutes each game. He is young and still learning, so he needs game repitition.
mykhalc
March 22nd, 2011
1:08 pm
@ag…here’s a tip for ya…NOBODY has proven themselves on this team…PERIOD!!! NOBODY!!! so yeah i’m all for givin’ Hilton a look with the starters. the worst he can do is what everybody else has done. simple…really.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
1:11 pm
vava74,
“You have issues and biased. I don’t, I am 100% sane and fair on my assessment of people. I would love that Jamal found the fountain of wisdom and started to play bball as he could, but the fact is that he doesn’t.”
I’m biased, but Tracey McGrady, Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford are losers, but Kirk Hinrich is excellent. Ok. I guess those 1,000 plus blocks and all those points that Mcgrady and Crawford have scored in their careers happened by chance. No practice or effort was put forth huh. LOL
“This LOSER has recently said, in reply to Jeff van Gundy’s statement that McGrady could have been much better if he had not relied so much on his immense talent and worked in his game and practiced harder (like MJ and Kobe ALWAYS DID/DOES), that he did not agree that he should have practiced more/hard and did not believe that practicing mattered.”
So are Kobe and MJ the only winners in your eyes. Kobe and MJ are the exception, not the rule trust me. I guess injuries had nothing to do with it huh. So when you are walking around with serious back problems, and no cartilidge in your knees, you should be going full bore in practice. That makes a lot of sense. Being that you never played the game, I assume you have never seen an NBA practice. No one on this earth goes all out in every practice. That is the biggest misconception that could ever be put out there. The Human body will not allow you to go all out in that manner. Some practice harder than others, but trust me, there are many guys walking around with multiple rings, who did not go all out in practice. If I heard correctly the great Larry Bird (late in his career) and Steve Nash, barely practice, so I guess they are losers too. If you become the second best 2 guard in the league behind Kobe Bryant, that does not happen by accident.
“And on Hinrich, you are dead wrong. Both the Bulls and Wiz had the opportunity to draft Grade A+ talent PGs, so your argument is worthless.”
If he was such an excellent player, as you say, then why would you not upgrade other positions? If I had an excellent point guard, I surely would not draft a point guard that high in the draft. Maybe I’m crazy (LOL). I’m sure Oklahoma City, Boston, Pheonix, Golden State, Sacramento …. would not have taken John Wall. They would have traded down. What Tom Thibodeau said was what any coach would say cocerning a player that he respects. He talked about his strengths, and left out his weaknesses. If the Hawks traded Jamal Crawford or Jaosh Smith would you expect Larry Drew or Woodson to talk bad about them at a press conference?
mykhalc
March 22nd, 2011
1:13 pm
@OB…definitely agree Teague needs consistent minutes. and like a lotta folks i hate the way LD handles him. i hate the way LD handles EVERYTHIN’!!!
ag
March 22nd, 2011
1:32 pm
Northclyde
I agree and they need a coach on the staff that is analysing the stats. I read ESPN the magazine that JJ had the worst 3pt% when shooting from the corners. Yet, he still takes that shot. I also read Horford has the highest fg% of all players who take the shot from the top of the key.
I watch almost every Hawk game, and I like the JT/KH/JJ/JS/AH lineup. Even if JT is not giving you points, Marvin plays better off the bench. Also, the rotations flow because JC gets JT and KH moves to point. JT returns to get KH and JC runs SG the entire game. We had some quality wins with that lineup 2-1).. The loss to Denver I put on LD because Teague was on the pine while Denver went with TWO PG’s and JR Smith.
That crap we put out Sunday has been getting blown out the building – and only one quality win (Chicago). That team is 2-5 (KH/JJ/MW/JS/AH). The Detroit game I do not consider that a quality win and for those all on Hinrichs sac for shutting RIP down, I didn’t realize they were letting him play.
ag
March 22nd, 2011
1:36 pm
mykhalc, you probably want Pepe Sy to get some run to, although he averaged 8 ppg in the DLeague. Again, Hilton was TRASH in Washington. Heck, if you can’t start on a bad team, what makes you think he can start on a good team? Okay, I am sure he is better than Twin, but that is not saying much. ZAZA is not athletic, but when he plays with his heart, heck I love watching him and Al play together. At least he will get fouled. Hilton does not have a post up game. Funny, J. Powell has a nice post game, but he opts to take those jumpers.
Harpie
March 22nd, 2011
1:40 pm
I HATE Larry Drew!
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
1:42 pm
Sleepy – You said this in regards to Jamal, “I dont why you think the coach would take out one of the best 4th quarter players in the nba with erratic as the team has been.”
Remember, there are two sides to the basketball court, offense and defense. And Jamal’s matador defense, combined with his falling scoring has made him a liability.
Remember, Jamal is only averaging 11.9 and 11.7 ppg in Feb. and March.
Remember, Jamal only shot like 37.5% from the field in Feb.
And Rod, as far as taking folks off the dribble, Jamal recently;
Shot 3 FT’s versus Detroit. In his previous 5 games he had shot 0 FT’s in 4 games, and 1 in the other game.
In my perfect world, to reference Lessing, Kirk would play 25-36 mpg. Teague would get the rest.
JJ and Jamal would play at SG. JJ would see some minutes at the 3 also. This may give Jamal 20 mpg, none at the the Point.
And I think the Hawks would be the better for it.
And I would try very hard to never have Josh guarding the perimeter if I could help it.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
1:45 pm
Rod – And as far as practice, I think Vava was referring to practice outside of team practice. You usually don’t hurt anything there. And you can work on mechanics and the like.
Kobe shot for an hour or hour and half by himself after midnight when they lost to the Heat recently.
And of course Bird could not practice with his bad back late in his career.
mykhalc
March 22nd, 2011
1:46 pm
@ag…yep i’m for replacin’ ANY of these heartless players…PERIOD!!! so yeah give Pape some burn too!!! i’m already in KA BOOM mode!!! and the Hawks are NOT a good team!!!
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
1:50 pm
I think the frustrating thing to all Hawks fans, and we are trying to quantify it, is that we have 9 legit pieces in place that can help us win if properly used. And if we go back, I would call Collins a 10th legit piece (barely) because of his basketball knowledge, and ability to body up C’s in this League.
We just see the pieces being used wrong. And some of the pieces aren’t obeying the Coaches game plan. But isn’t it the coaches responsibility to enforce his game plan when a player repeatedly violates it?
That’s why most fans have come to the conclusion it’s all about coaching with the Hawks. Pieces being used incorrectly, and no accountability when the pieces use themselves incorrectly.
Put McMillan or Karl in charge of this team, you may have a different story.
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
1:55 pm
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
On another web site, it said the Hawks turned down Kris Kaman for Marvin Williams earlier this season. Wow? I wonder if that’s really true.
What site was that?
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
1:57 pm
And of the top 50 scorers in the League, of which Jamal is not one of them, 49 of 50 have a better shooting % than Jamal. That’s bad.
But we need his streaky shooting when he’s on.
Only Stephen Jackson is worse
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
1:58 pm
Tremaine – Peachtree Hoops. That’s why I wondered if it was legit
ag
March 22nd, 2011
2:00 pm
Hilton has been in the league six years. He is just like Marvin, a high first round pick that has not delivered. Unlike Marvin, his other previous teams awarded him with his walking papers. In six seasons, he has grabbed more than 6 rebounds in a game 9 times.. 4 times this season. He has had more than 2 blocks once! Like the famous quote “He is who he is!” I am sure we will not be ranked 26th in rebounding with him, maybe 28th?
Okay, Teague is a seoond year player. At ppg he also has one game with more than two blocks and one game with more than six rebounds. Yet, he does it in other areas, assist, rebounding… but mostly energy. The box score never shows how the PG harasses the the other PG bringing the ball up the court to disrupt the offense sets.
Also, take one of those losses off the Hinrich, Marvin lineup… because Twin started against Miami. The Hawks record as Hinrich as the starting PG 2-5.
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
2:02 pm
I forgot Kirk and Jamal played together for the Bulls years ago. I wondered when they asked Kirk about the players his answer was about Jamal, I know what he is all about. Sounded kinda backhanded.
And that quote is from memory, so it may not be verbatim.
Ben Dover
March 22nd, 2011
2:07 pm
People, don’t forget that the only reason that LD was hired was because no one else would take the job.
Worldwide Clyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:10 pm
*yawn* from Rio
Rev in Tampa
March 22nd, 2011
2:15 pm
Worldwide Clyde,
Say hello to the President for us.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:19 pm
I’m just looking at it by the numbers.
The way we have things failing around here, you have too look at everything. And if the statistics tell you that certain groups of players play well with each other, the coach should consider playing those guys with each other as much as possible. This team undergoes CATASTROPHIC FAILURES at times. So everything must be looked at.
I agree with Rod about Hinrich. He is not a B+ player. He’s more like a B- or B player. He’s good, but not borderline outstanding, as a B+ grade would indicate. I would give Jamal that same B- grade, due to his ability to flat out explode, when he is hot. Hinrich is steady good. Jamal fluctuates from horrible to flat out great.
But there are too many PGs I would rather have running this team, to look at Hinrich in that high of regard. Truth be told, Hinrich is just as streaky of a shooter over his career, as Jamal is. He’s shooting a career high this year, so maybe we’re acquiring him at the right time. But he’s only a career 41.8% FG shooter himself. Hopefully, he benefits from playing beside JJ, as Bibby did for a few years.
ag
March 22nd, 2011
2:26 pm
Prior to starting Teague against Portland, this lineup got blown out against Chicago with Boozer. Marvin was turrible. If Teague starts, Jr. comes off the bench with a bit of a chip off his shoulder. I say keep Marvin coming off the bench. We are not going to resign Jamal, we are not getting out of the first round, so play Teague, let him get experience.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:30 pm
The Hinrich – JJ – Marvin – Smith – Horford lineup has produced an offensive rating of 88 and a defensive rating of 96.
So strictly by the numbers, while that lineup is good defensively, something is amiss offensively with that unit so far. Can it be corrected? Of course. But Drew needs to find out why that unit has been so inefficient so far this year.
@ O’Brien . . . talk about the Bibby – Jamal backcourt all you want, but by the numbers, that pairing, along with JJ – Smith – Horford, was one of our best 5-man lineups this year, due to their ability to score. And that lineup was outstanding last year for the same reason. But in those lineups, Jamal wasn’t handling the ball a lot with both Bibby and JJ on the court. When he did get the ball, the only thing he was looked to do, was score the basketball.
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
2:32 pm
Should I “Like” the Fire Larry Drew facebook page?
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:36 pm
My thing with Jamal has always been this:
If he’s balling offensively, you leave him in. If not, you limit his minutes.
He is way too streaky of a shooter and too horrible defensively, to leave him in regardless of the situation. When he’s on, play him 30 minutes. When he’s off, don’t be afraid to play him 18 minutes, if other guys on the team are giving you production.
And sometimes, when you’re down 7 or 8 in a game, the right adjustment is to make a DEFENSIVE ONE, not an OFFENSIVE ONE. If we’re down 8 with 5 minutes to go, and Jamal is 3 – 11 FG, maybe he’s not the one to go with down the stretch for that particular game. LD can’t be afraid to go with another player that plays better defense, to see if the defensive player can spark a run, rather than to look for a shooter to do it.
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
2:38 pm
Sund=Billy knight worst GM in Hawks History..
Al for Nene Yesterday!!!
12 games left. Hawks may win 4??? Then comes the BEATDOWN……………….
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
2:56 pm
On the draft some were talking about, isn’t it almost always best to draft the best available player, then trade for you needs? I mean, if you have 2 NBA PF’s in a draft, and 6 NBA PG’s, shouldn’t you draft one of the PG’s and trade for a PG instead of drafting a 3rd or 4th PF who may not be good enough?
So I think teams with a Rondo etc. would draft another great PG, and trade one of them for a very good player, rather than drafting a need if that player is not nearly as good.
And about Josh at the 3. Josh can’t guard most 3’s, and teams will exploit us by putting in a quick, shooter on him. And since we don’t know how to get the ball where it needs to go on the floor, we will not exploit the matchup on the other end usually.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
2:57 pm
Northcyde,
“If he’s balling offensively, you leave him in. If not, you limit his minutes.”
I totally agree, but the problem becomes, if not Jamal is taken out usually you would replace him with Marvin. The problem with having Marvin on the floor at the end of the Game is that if he is having his usual disappearing game, it’s just like playing 4 against 5. Teams will double JJ hard with Marvin’s man, leave Marvin wide open, and make everyone else shoot jumpers. When Jamal’s on the floor, teams have to account for him, which should make it easier on JJ. That’s the premise, which I understand, but JJ and Jamal have just been terrible this year at hitting shots. The defensive substitution that you speak of is correct, but if we are up 8, and can never score again in that quarter because of our defensive substitution, is it really the right move to make?
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
2:59 pm
Hinrich seems to be improving his midrange game over the years.
Northcyde – I agree with your post about Jamal. And I would add, if your up 12 with 5 minutes to go, you may want to go with a defensive presence to protect the lead if jamal is not hot.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
3:04 pm
“On the draft some were talking about, isn’t it almost always best to draft the best available player, then trade for you needs? I mean, if you have 2 NBA PF’s in a draft, and 6 NBA PG’s, shouldn’t you draft one of the PG’s and trade for a PG instead of drafting a 3rd or 4th PF who may not be good enough?”
Rarely works that way. Especially high picks. Most teams will either trade down and aquire picks or draft another position. Or they will pick that player for another team, with a trade in mind. No team with a great point guard would draft another point guard. In the NBA, that would show your starting point guard, that you really have no faith in him, or are trying to light a fire under him, and that would cause you major problems in free agency.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:07 pm
I mean damn.
Al Horford is easily our most efficient player on the team this year. And it’s not even close.
So how is it that of the top 18 5-man lineups that Horford has played in this year, the 3 worst lineups that Horford played on, had Jamal Crawford at PG?
Is that a coincidence?
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
3:10 pm
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001905909046&sk=friends&v=friends#!/pages/Fire-Larry-Drew/196704723682688
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
3:20 pm
“Remember, there are two sides to the basketball court, offense and defense. And Jamal’s matador defense, combined with his falling scoring has made him a liability.
Remember, Jamal is only averaging 11.9 and 11.7 ppg in Feb. and March.
Remember, Jamal only shot like 37.5% from the field in Feb.
And Rod, as far as taking folks off the dribble, Jamal recently;
Shot 3 FT’s versus Detroit. In his previous 5 games he had shot 0 FT’s in 4 games, and 1 in the other game.”
All telling stats, but luckily for players in the NBA, most coaches don’t make decisions based off a month or two of games. They take what they have seen for a players career, and with Larry Drew, he probably takes all the games that Jamal Crawford torched the Hawks for in the past and makes a logical decision that his team lacks a scoring punch, so he should have one of his best scorers in the game in the forth quarter. Plus lets not forget that LD is supposed to be an offensive coach, so why would we expect him to defer to the defensive side of the ball. Again SteveW your points might be correct, but the alternative is Marvin Williams because we know that Teague and Damien Wilkins won’t get those minutes (for whatever reason).
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:23 pm
Rod . . . on the flip side of that, Marvin’s presence on the court usually doesn’t kill the team defensively. So even if he is a non factor stat wise offensively, there are not catastrophic breakdowns taking place on the defensive end.
It’s all about game situations. If you have a situation in which Crawford is cold, AND the man that Crawford is guarding is lighting him up, you CAN’T leave Crawford in the game. He’s not going to make up for his “coldness” by doing other things to help the team. So you can’t leave him in.
That was the situation we were having with Bibby in February. The Bibby situation would’ve been tolerable, had Mike been making shots to offset what he is giving up on the other end. But when he’s ice cold, and his man is scoring on him at will, it became a HUGE problem for the Hawks.
Say what you want about Marvin individually as a player, but as soon as Drew makes the Jamal for Marvin substitution, bad things seem to begin to start happening to the Hawks. Vava has been pointing this out all year, and I’ve seen it too.
And it may not be all Jamal’s fault all of the time. But watch tonight when he comes into the game, and how the Hawks play on both ends of the floor.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:23 pm
“Rarely works that way. Especially high picks. Most teams will either trade down and aquire picks or draft another position. ”
In the NFL, sure. Not in the NBA. In the NBA, when a team has a chance to draft a superstar, they would be fools to pass it up, considering how essential superstars are to any sustained success. This is independent of the prior roster. This would explain, for example, the Cavs drafting LeBron in 2003 despite Ricky Davis having averaged 20/5/5 at the SF position the previous season.
Also, since there are only two rounds in the draft and teams rarely go into a draft holding more than three picks, trading down or up happens a lot less frequently in the NBA, as far as I’ve seen, than it does in the NFL.
“No team with a great point guard would draft another point guard.”
I think your position that Kirk is not a “great” point guard is fair. But I think it is also fair to say he is a “good” point guard. Both the Bulls and the Wizards had a chance to draft a potentially “great” point guard, while Kirk has shown he is good but not great.
Just because Kirk was supplanted by a superstar in Chicago and a budding superstar in Washington doesn’t mean he is a bad player. It just means he’s not a superstar.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:25 pm
I do, however, totally agree with you on Tracy McGrady. There is a vast, wide gulf between being Kobe and being a “loser”, and T-Mac falls within that vast, wide gulf. “Losers” don’t drag starting lineups laden with the likes of Andrew DeClercq, Darrell Armstrong, and Pat Garrity into the playoffs.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:28 pm
I don’t even really have a problem with Jamal getting extended minutes. The problem I do have is with him a) playing the point guard position and b) guarding players who can score. Against the Bulls, for example, he should only play the 2 and he should only be guarding Keith Bogans. If LD plays him for even a minute at point guard vs. Derrick Rose (or even CJ Watson) he is a f-cking lunatic.
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
Jamal is a one trick pony……..He’s a journey man for a reason…Walk dude, dont run…….
Waive Marvin………………………..
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
up next tonight Chicago by 15……………..
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
“it said the Hawks turned down Kris Kaman for Marvin Williams earlier this season.”
They would have to be certified idiots to turn that down. Forget the benefits on the court of having Kaman; the fact that his contract expires after next season and would open up cap room for the summer of 2012 (unlike Marvin’s contract which has an additional two years on it) alone is worth making that deal.
Kaman is a little too turnover-prone and injury-prone for my taste, but just the contract situation makes it a worthwhile deal.
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
“Through Sunday’s games, the Hawks ranked second to last in the NBA in second-chance points with 11.3 per game, a byproduct of ranking 26th in the league in offensive rebounds per game (9.5). Only Boston averages fewer second-chance points, at 9.9. The Hawks give up 12.7 second-chance points per game. They were also last in the league in drawing personal fouls from the opposition, 18.6 per game. They commit 18.9 per game, third fewest in the league.”
This team is 28th in overall rebounding!!!!!!
This team does not even make the playoffs if they played in the Western Conference because they really do suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This season is a wrap!! Time will finally catch them up in 4 weeks…..Stick a fork in this bird!!!!!!!!!
Start over……………..Sund kick rocks!!! 31+ yrs of mediocrity…Retire already??????????????????????
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
“All telling stats, but luckily for players in the NBA, most coaches don’t make decisions based off a month or two of games. They take what they have seen for a players career, and with Larry Drew, he probably takes all the games that Jamal Crawford torched the Hawks for in the past and makes a logical decision that his team lacks a scoring punch, so he should have one of his best scorers in the game in the forth quarter. Plus lets not forget that LD is supposed to be an offensive coach, so why would we expect him to defer to the defensive side of the ball. Again SteveW your points might be correct, but the alternative is Marvin Williams because we know that Teague and Damien Wilkins won’t get those minutes (for whatever reason).”
*****************
And that line of thinking will cause Drew to lose his job either in the summer, or next season when his contract isn’t renewed.
But what he’s been for his entire career, is arguably one of the streakiest shooters in NBA history. It is literally feast or famine with Jamal. A guy that could score 50 one night, and 6 the next ( which he has actually done ).
You can’t rely on players like that for overall stability. Those players should be used as weapons, much like how Karl uses JR Smith. But even he only plays 24 minutes a game, because Karl has sense enough to know that when JR isn’t on, he can shoot you right out of the game.
It’s like the situation with JJ and his 3 point shooting. Do you continue to encourage JJ to keep jacking up 3s, just because he’s a career 37% shooter from that range . . despite him shooting 30.5% this season?
I say NO. I say you tell him to be reluctant to take that shot throughout the game, especially if he misses his first few. When a player isn’t doing something right, there has to be a stop sign or at least a blinking yellow caution light going off.
The same goes with Josh Smith’s 3 point shooting. It was all good when he was making them. But he’s now reverted back to his sub 30% shooting self the past 2 or 3 months, even though his overall shooting is still around 33%. But the stop sign should be up for him as well.
If playing Marvin, or Teague, or Damien down the stretch of a game in the place of an inefficient Jamal, slows down the bleeding on the defensive end, that may give our other guys a chance to get us back into the game. And if that grouping without Jamal can secure defensive rebounds and maybe force a few turnovers, that can turn into quick transition points on the offensive end.
Sometimes, the best way to offensively get back into the game, is to make a defensive substitution.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
3:46 pm
Rod,
The issue is if Jamal is cold, then you wont get much offense from him. And on defense, he will give up points.
Marvin may not score on offense, but at least he plays better defense. And JJ, Josh and Al are still in the game, so with ball movement, we can play through them. But if Marvin is being Marvin, then I can understand LD not going to him. I think he should consider Damien an option as well.
Plus lets not forget that LD is supposed to be an offensive coach, so why would we expect him to defer to the defensive side of the ball..
Because defense is what wins, especially in the playoffs. D’Antoni has Melo and Amare, 2 very good scorers, but yet the Knicks are 7-9 since the trade.
Double Zero Eight
March 22nd, 2011
3:46 pm
Unfortunately, tonight we will see the REAL Hawks!!
Will they play like Buzzards and stink the place up
as they usually do against “elite” teams???????
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:49 pm
“Those players should be used as weapons, much like how Karl uses JR Smith. But even he only plays 24 minutes a game, because Karl has sense enough to know that when JR isn’t on, he can shoot you right out of the game.”
Good point about JR Smith. He’s probably the most similar player as far as strengths, weaknesses, and overall contributions to Jamal in the league. I didn’t even realize he only plays 24 minutes a game. That is exactly how Jamal should be used.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
LOL @ last in the league in drawing fouls . .and in the bottom 5 in the league in getting 2nd chance points. That’s a recipe for disaster, when a team is almost strictly a schizophrenic jumpshooting team.
That’s a by-product of Drew’s offense. Horford and Smith are on the outside shooting jumpers, and there is no one in the paint to rebound their misses. At least when JJ and Jamal were taking the most shots, Horford and Smith were near the paint to rebound their bricks.
The Game Has Changed
March 22nd, 2011
3:56 pm
I think LD worries too much about how we match up with other teams instead of worrying about how teams match up with us. Teague may have been a challenge for Hamilton and Tracy but he would have been able to run those guys off the court. Maybe five years ago I could see LD not playing Teague against those two guys but they are only a shell of themselves. @Double Zero Eight-I think we will play well against the Bulls tonight. Go Hawks.
Double Zero Eight
March 22nd, 2011
4:07 pm
@ The Game Has Changed
I hope you are right. I prepare myself
for the worst, hoping for a pleasant surprise.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
4:24 pm
northcyde,
That’s a by-product of Drew’s offense. Horford and Smith are on the outside shooting jumpers, and there is no one in the paint to rebound their misses. At least when JJ and Jamal were taking the most shots, Horford and Smith were near the paint to rebound their bricks..
I think part of the problem too is because when the jumpers go up, our guys start back pedalling on defense so that we minimize the opponents opportunity for transition points (especially before Bibby was traded).
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
4:26 pm
The Game has changed,
I think LD worries too much about how we match up with other teams instead of worrying about how teams match up with us..
I think that is one of the things that got Avery Johnson fired in Dallas. As the #1 seed, he changed his lineup and rotation to try and match up better with Golden State the #8 seed, instead of forcing the Warriors to adjust to him, or taking advantage of their weaknesses.
The Warriors won that series.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
4:28 pm
No problem with any of you guys statements concerning Jamal. I agree, but the same arguement applies to Marvin offensively that applies to Jamal defensively. He’s so bad offensively that it’s not worth having him on the floor, especially on a team that can’t score in the 4th. In my opinion, Marvin’s defense is no where close to Jamal’s offensive ability, and I’m sure Drew and Woodson feel the same way. I agree with the JR Smith comparison also, but the difference is Carl has much better options to go to if JR Smith is cold than Drew does. I personally would put Damien on the floor, better defender than Marvin, and he will attack the rim, but obviously for whatever reason that won’t happen. I personally would take the guy that has the ability to go for 50 one night and 4 the next, as opposed to the guy who will give you 8 points every night and pose no offensive threat, and is an average defender.
Also I say to most of you, that I don’t believe that defense is our problem, I believe offense is. The playoffs have proved that for the last 2 years. I’ve posted this several times. I don’t belive we averaged over 82 ppg in the Cleveland playoff series or the Orlando playoff series. We are too easy to shut down in the playoffs because we settle for too many jumpshots, and no one attacks the rim. For instance take the Denver game. I think Denver is one of the highest scoring teams in the league, we held them under their season average, but we only scored 87 points. Better defense was not going to win that game for us, better offensive execution was.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
4:31 pm
Start Teague Joe Damien Horford and ZaZa
Hinrich Duck and Smoove off the bench
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
4:32 pm
Damien is making about 1/6 now of what Jason Collins is
Westurd
March 22nd, 2011
4:34 pm
Our best looking games this past month came when temper tantrum throwing Josh Smith was out.
I don’t have the numbers, but know most of you would love to look them up. Someone prove me wrong cause I really think I am right on this one…
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
6:45 pm
northcyde,
Some valid points, but you are way off downgrading Hinrich.
His value is superior to his stats – just like Battier, for instance. It was not a fluke that he was called toream USA.
Jamal on the other hard is worse than his numbers – which are not out of his world.
You will notice that Rod conception of the game is so skewed that he miss understood you: as you say, most of the times when you are down etting stopsyou need to make a move to upgrade the DEFENSE and not try to go with a more offensive line up.
Good teams make runs by getting stops and then getting easy baskets in transition. Just like we did in Portland. In the rare occasions that Jamal plays D we become very good. The problem is that this rarely happens.
Rod thinks just like LD.
slimjr
March 23rd, 2011
12:15 am
HAWKS DID WHAT TONIGHT?????????????????????????????????????????
michael turner
March 23rd, 2011
8:20 am
As a die hard hawks fan i don’t even find interest in watching a hawks game anymore. They are all smiles after a win against detroit. News flash guys you’re suppose to be detroit. The hawks barely have any wins against playoff teams this year when last year that had a ton. Larry Drew is a you get what you pay for situation. Truth be told though he is garbage. The man is set to ruin jeff teague like woodson ruined his young guards. When will ownership decide to spend the money and give this city a contender not just a playoff first round team. Start at the top Larry Drew and Rick Sund must go. The city of ATLANTA needs to boycott every home game till we get a better product