For Hawks, Pistons behind, Bulls next
Greetings, all
Hope you’re well. Sorry I couldn’t blog Sunday night. Georgia State is introducing its new coach today (Monday), which I found out last night and so I had to start digging around to find out who it was, right about the time I was going to sit down to blog.
This will be on the brief side, so my apologies again.
- Not sure how much to take from the game. It’s a win, which is the important thing, but a) it’s only one win; b) it was against Detroit. Still, beats the alternative. The Hawks played with a bit more energy. Kirk Hinrich: “We talked about it as a team. We’re aware of it and there’s going to be nights that don’t go our way out there. We have to stick together, rely on each other and just play through it.”
- I counted 40 shots from 16 feet or more, out of 70. The Hawks started out shooting the ball well – they made seven of their first nine from 16 feet and out, and then 11 of the final 31. Off the top of my head, I’m not sure how this compares with a typical game, but it makes me wonder a little if the biggest difference in the game (opponent aside), or at least one of the biggest differences, was that the shots that they took went in after not going in against Miami, Denver, etc.
That said, I did think they were more intentional about running and to some degree played more physically on defense, although the Pistons still shot 50 percent from the field.
- The Jeff Teague update – 11th DNP. Larry Drew’s explanation – he didn’t want to start him because Tracy McGrady was a matchup problem, as well as Richard Hamilton. He said the starting unit got into a flow so he didn’t want to disrupt it. Also, he said he wanted to try to give Jamal Crawford more minutes than he would have otherwise to try to get him going before the playoffs start.
“I’m going to have to get him going and I’ve got to make sure he’s feeling good about himself as we move down the stretch,” Drew said. “He’s a guy we’re going to need down the stretch.”
- Chicago and Philadelphia ahead. Those games, I think we can agree, will be more telling than Sunday.
“We have to mirror this game but play with a little bit more energy and try to get the win against Chicago,” Josh Smith said.
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289 comments Add your comment
Worldwide Clyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:10 pm
*yawn* from Rio
Rev in Tampa
March 22nd, 2011
2:15 pm
Worldwide Clyde,
Say hello to the President for us.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:19 pm
I’m just looking at it by the numbers.
The way we have things failing around here, you have too look at everything. And if the statistics tell you that certain groups of players play well with each other, the coach should consider playing those guys with each other as much as possible. This team undergoes CATASTROPHIC FAILURES at times. So everything must be looked at.
I agree with Rod about Hinrich. He is not a B+ player. He’s more like a B- or B player. He’s good, but not borderline outstanding, as a B+ grade would indicate. I would give Jamal that same B- grade, due to his ability to flat out explode, when he is hot. Hinrich is steady good. Jamal fluctuates from horrible to flat out great.
But there are too many PGs I would rather have running this team, to look at Hinrich in that high of regard. Truth be told, Hinrich is just as streaky of a shooter over his career, as Jamal is. He’s shooting a career high this year, so maybe we’re acquiring him at the right time. But he’s only a career 41.8% FG shooter himself. Hopefully, he benefits from playing beside JJ, as Bibby did for a few years.
ag
March 22nd, 2011
2:26 pm
Prior to starting Teague against Portland, this lineup got blown out against Chicago with Boozer. Marvin was turrible. If Teague starts, Jr. comes off the bench with a bit of a chip off his shoulder. I say keep Marvin coming off the bench. We are not going to resign Jamal, we are not getting out of the first round, so play Teague, let him get experience.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:30 pm
The Hinrich – JJ – Marvin – Smith – Horford lineup has produced an offensive rating of 88 and a defensive rating of 96.
So strictly by the numbers, while that lineup is good defensively, something is amiss offensively with that unit so far. Can it be corrected? Of course. But Drew needs to find out why that unit has been so inefficient so far this year.
@ O’Brien . . . talk about the Bibby – Jamal backcourt all you want, but by the numbers, that pairing, along with JJ – Smith – Horford, was one of our best 5-man lineups this year, due to their ability to score. And that lineup was outstanding last year for the same reason. But in those lineups, Jamal wasn’t handling the ball a lot with both Bibby and JJ on the court. When he did get the ball, the only thing he was looked to do, was score the basketball.
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
2:32 pm
Should I “Like” the Fire Larry Drew facebook page?
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
2:36 pm
My thing with Jamal has always been this:
If he’s balling offensively, you leave him in. If not, you limit his minutes.
He is way too streaky of a shooter and too horrible defensively, to leave him in regardless of the situation. When he’s on, play him 30 minutes. When he’s off, don’t be afraid to play him 18 minutes, if other guys on the team are giving you production.
And sometimes, when you’re down 7 or 8 in a game, the right adjustment is to make a DEFENSIVE ONE, not an OFFENSIVE ONE. If we’re down 8 with 5 minutes to go, and Jamal is 3 – 11 FG, maybe he’s not the one to go with down the stretch for that particular game. LD can’t be afraid to go with another player that plays better defense, to see if the defensive player can spark a run, rather than to look for a shooter to do it.
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
2:38 pm
Sund=Billy knight worst GM in Hawks History..
Al for Nene Yesterday!!!
12 games left. Hawks may win 4??? Then comes the BEATDOWN……………….
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
2:56 pm
On the draft some were talking about, isn’t it almost always best to draft the best available player, then trade for you needs? I mean, if you have 2 NBA PF’s in a draft, and 6 NBA PG’s, shouldn’t you draft one of the PG’s and trade for a PG instead of drafting a 3rd or 4th PF who may not be good enough?
So I think teams with a Rondo etc. would draft another great PG, and trade one of them for a very good player, rather than drafting a need if that player is not nearly as good.
And about Josh at the 3. Josh can’t guard most 3’s, and teams will exploit us by putting in a quick, shooter on him. And since we don’t know how to get the ball where it needs to go on the floor, we will not exploit the matchup on the other end usually.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
2:57 pm
Northcyde,
“If he’s balling offensively, you leave him in. If not, you limit his minutes.”
I totally agree, but the problem becomes, if not Jamal is taken out usually you would replace him with Marvin. The problem with having Marvin on the floor at the end of the Game is that if he is having his usual disappearing game, it’s just like playing 4 against 5. Teams will double JJ hard with Marvin’s man, leave Marvin wide open, and make everyone else shoot jumpers. When Jamal’s on the floor, teams have to account for him, which should make it easier on JJ. That’s the premise, which I understand, but JJ and Jamal have just been terrible this year at hitting shots. The defensive substitution that you speak of is correct, but if we are up 8, and can never score again in that quarter because of our defensive substitution, is it really the right move to make?
SteveW
March 22nd, 2011
2:59 pm
Hinrich seems to be improving his midrange game over the years.
Northcyde – I agree with your post about Jamal. And I would add, if your up 12 with 5 minutes to go, you may want to go with a defensive presence to protect the lead if jamal is not hot.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
3:04 pm
“On the draft some were talking about, isn’t it almost always best to draft the best available player, then trade for you needs? I mean, if you have 2 NBA PF’s in a draft, and 6 NBA PG’s, shouldn’t you draft one of the PG’s and trade for a PG instead of drafting a 3rd or 4th PF who may not be good enough?”
Rarely works that way. Especially high picks. Most teams will either trade down and aquire picks or draft another position. Or they will pick that player for another team, with a trade in mind. No team with a great point guard would draft another point guard. In the NBA, that would show your starting point guard, that you really have no faith in him, or are trying to light a fire under him, and that would cause you major problems in free agency.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:07 pm
I mean damn.
Al Horford is easily our most efficient player on the team this year. And it’s not even close.
So how is it that of the top 18 5-man lineups that Horford has played in this year, the 3 worst lineups that Horford played on, had Jamal Crawford at PG?
Is that a coincidence?
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
3:10 pm
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001905909046&sk=friends&v=friends#!/pages/Fire-Larry-Drew/196704723682688
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
3:20 pm
“Remember, there are two sides to the basketball court, offense and defense. And Jamal’s matador defense, combined with his falling scoring has made him a liability.
Remember, Jamal is only averaging 11.9 and 11.7 ppg in Feb. and March.
Remember, Jamal only shot like 37.5% from the field in Feb.
And Rod, as far as taking folks off the dribble, Jamal recently;
Shot 3 FT’s versus Detroit. In his previous 5 games he had shot 0 FT’s in 4 games, and 1 in the other game.”
All telling stats, but luckily for players in the NBA, most coaches don’t make decisions based off a month or two of games. They take what they have seen for a players career, and with Larry Drew, he probably takes all the games that Jamal Crawford torched the Hawks for in the past and makes a logical decision that his team lacks a scoring punch, so he should have one of his best scorers in the game in the forth quarter. Plus lets not forget that LD is supposed to be an offensive coach, so why would we expect him to defer to the defensive side of the ball. Again SteveW your points might be correct, but the alternative is Marvin Williams because we know that Teague and Damien Wilkins won’t get those minutes (for whatever reason).
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:23 pm
Rod . . . on the flip side of that, Marvin’s presence on the court usually doesn’t kill the team defensively. So even if he is a non factor stat wise offensively, there are not catastrophic breakdowns taking place on the defensive end.
It’s all about game situations. If you have a situation in which Crawford is cold, AND the man that Crawford is guarding is lighting him up, you CAN’T leave Crawford in the game. He’s not going to make up for his “coldness” by doing other things to help the team. So you can’t leave him in.
That was the situation we were having with Bibby in February. The Bibby situation would’ve been tolerable, had Mike been making shots to offset what he is giving up on the other end. But when he’s ice cold, and his man is scoring on him at will, it became a HUGE problem for the Hawks.
Say what you want about Marvin individually as a player, but as soon as Drew makes the Jamal for Marvin substitution, bad things seem to begin to start happening to the Hawks. Vava has been pointing this out all year, and I’ve seen it too.
And it may not be all Jamal’s fault all of the time. But watch tonight when he comes into the game, and how the Hawks play on both ends of the floor.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:23 pm
“Rarely works that way. Especially high picks. Most teams will either trade down and aquire picks or draft another position. ”
In the NFL, sure. Not in the NBA. In the NBA, when a team has a chance to draft a superstar, they would be fools to pass it up, considering how essential superstars are to any sustained success. This is independent of the prior roster. This would explain, for example, the Cavs drafting LeBron in 2003 despite Ricky Davis having averaged 20/5/5 at the SF position the previous season.
Also, since there are only two rounds in the draft and teams rarely go into a draft holding more than three picks, trading down or up happens a lot less frequently in the NBA, as far as I’ve seen, than it does in the NFL.
“No team with a great point guard would draft another point guard.”
I think your position that Kirk is not a “great” point guard is fair. But I think it is also fair to say he is a “good” point guard. Both the Bulls and the Wizards had a chance to draft a potentially “great” point guard, while Kirk has shown he is good but not great.
Just because Kirk was supplanted by a superstar in Chicago and a budding superstar in Washington doesn’t mean he is a bad player. It just means he’s not a superstar.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:25 pm
I do, however, totally agree with you on Tracy McGrady. There is a vast, wide gulf between being Kobe and being a “loser”, and T-Mac falls within that vast, wide gulf. “Losers” don’t drag starting lineups laden with the likes of Andrew DeClercq, Darrell Armstrong, and Pat Garrity into the playoffs.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:28 pm
I don’t even really have a problem with Jamal getting extended minutes. The problem I do have is with him a) playing the point guard position and b) guarding players who can score. Against the Bulls, for example, he should only play the 2 and he should only be guarding Keith Bogans. If LD plays him for even a minute at point guard vs. Derrick Rose (or even CJ Watson) he is a f-cking lunatic.
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
Jamal is a one trick pony……..He’s a journey man for a reason…Walk dude, dont run…….
Waive Marvin………………………..
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
up next tonight Chicago by 15……………..
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
“it said the Hawks turned down Kris Kaman for Marvin Williams earlier this season.”
They would have to be certified idiots to turn that down. Forget the benefits on the court of having Kaman; the fact that his contract expires after next season and would open up cap room for the summer of 2012 (unlike Marvin’s contract which has an additional two years on it) alone is worth making that deal.
Kaman is a little too turnover-prone and injury-prone for my taste, but just the contract situation makes it a worthwhile deal.
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
“Through Sunday’s games, the Hawks ranked second to last in the NBA in second-chance points with 11.3 per game, a byproduct of ranking 26th in the league in offensive rebounds per game (9.5). Only Boston averages fewer second-chance points, at 9.9. The Hawks give up 12.7 second-chance points per game. They were also last in the league in drawing personal fouls from the opposition, 18.6 per game. They commit 18.9 per game, third fewest in the league.”
This team is 28th in overall rebounding!!!!!!
This team does not even make the playoffs if they played in the Western Conference because they really do suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This season is a wrap!! Time will finally catch them up in 4 weeks…..Stick a fork in this bird!!!!!!!!!
Start over……………..Sund kick rocks!!! 31+ yrs of mediocrity…Retire already??????????????????????
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
“All telling stats, but luckily for players in the NBA, most coaches don’t make decisions based off a month or two of games. They take what they have seen for a players career, and with Larry Drew, he probably takes all the games that Jamal Crawford torched the Hawks for in the past and makes a logical decision that his team lacks a scoring punch, so he should have one of his best scorers in the game in the forth quarter. Plus lets not forget that LD is supposed to be an offensive coach, so why would we expect him to defer to the defensive side of the ball. Again SteveW your points might be correct, but the alternative is Marvin Williams because we know that Teague and Damien Wilkins won’t get those minutes (for whatever reason).”
*****************
And that line of thinking will cause Drew to lose his job either in the summer, or next season when his contract isn’t renewed.
But what he’s been for his entire career, is arguably one of the streakiest shooters in NBA history. It is literally feast or famine with Jamal. A guy that could score 50 one night, and 6 the next ( which he has actually done ).
You can’t rely on players like that for overall stability. Those players should be used as weapons, much like how Karl uses JR Smith. But even he only plays 24 minutes a game, because Karl has sense enough to know that when JR isn’t on, he can shoot you right out of the game.
It’s like the situation with JJ and his 3 point shooting. Do you continue to encourage JJ to keep jacking up 3s, just because he’s a career 37% shooter from that range . . despite him shooting 30.5% this season?
I say NO. I say you tell him to be reluctant to take that shot throughout the game, especially if he misses his first few. When a player isn’t doing something right, there has to be a stop sign or at least a blinking yellow caution light going off.
The same goes with Josh Smith’s 3 point shooting. It was all good when he was making them. But he’s now reverted back to his sub 30% shooting self the past 2 or 3 months, even though his overall shooting is still around 33%. But the stop sign should be up for him as well.
If playing Marvin, or Teague, or Damien down the stretch of a game in the place of an inefficient Jamal, slows down the bleeding on the defensive end, that may give our other guys a chance to get us back into the game. And if that grouping without Jamal can secure defensive rebounds and maybe force a few turnovers, that can turn into quick transition points on the offensive end.
Sometimes, the best way to offensively get back into the game, is to make a defensive substitution.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
3:46 pm
Rod,
The issue is if Jamal is cold, then you wont get much offense from him. And on defense, he will give up points.
Marvin may not score on offense, but at least he plays better defense. And JJ, Josh and Al are still in the game, so with ball movement, we can play through them. But if Marvin is being Marvin, then I can understand LD not going to him. I think he should consider Damien an option as well.
Plus lets not forget that LD is supposed to be an offensive coach, so why would we expect him to defer to the defensive side of the ball..
Because defense is what wins, especially in the playoffs. D’Antoni has Melo and Amare, 2 very good scorers, but yet the Knicks are 7-9 since the trade.
Double Zero Eight
March 22nd, 2011
3:46 pm
Unfortunately, tonight we will see the REAL Hawks!!
Will they play like Buzzards and stink the place up
as they usually do against “elite” teams???????
Najeh Davenpoop
March 22nd, 2011
3:49 pm
“Those players should be used as weapons, much like how Karl uses JR Smith. But even he only plays 24 minutes a game, because Karl has sense enough to know that when JR isn’t on, he can shoot you right out of the game.”
Good point about JR Smith. He’s probably the most similar player as far as strengths, weaknesses, and overall contributions to Jamal in the league. I didn’t even realize he only plays 24 minutes a game. That is exactly how Jamal should be used.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
LOL @ last in the league in drawing fouls . .and in the bottom 5 in the league in getting 2nd chance points. That’s a recipe for disaster, when a team is almost strictly a schizophrenic jumpshooting team.
That’s a by-product of Drew’s offense. Horford and Smith are on the outside shooting jumpers, and there is no one in the paint to rebound their misses. At least when JJ and Jamal were taking the most shots, Horford and Smith were near the paint to rebound their bricks.
The Game Has Changed
March 22nd, 2011
3:56 pm
I think LD worries too much about how we match up with other teams instead of worrying about how teams match up with us. Teague may have been a challenge for Hamilton and Tracy but he would have been able to run those guys off the court. Maybe five years ago I could see LD not playing Teague against those two guys but they are only a shell of themselves. @Double Zero Eight-I think we will play well against the Bulls tonight. Go Hawks.
Double Zero Eight
March 22nd, 2011
4:07 pm
@ The Game Has Changed
I hope you are right. I prepare myself
for the worst, hoping for a pleasant surprise.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
4:24 pm
northcyde,
That’s a by-product of Drew’s offense. Horford and Smith are on the outside shooting jumpers, and there is no one in the paint to rebound their misses. At least when JJ and Jamal were taking the most shots, Horford and Smith were near the paint to rebound their bricks..
I think part of the problem too is because when the jumpers go up, our guys start back pedalling on defense so that we minimize the opponents opportunity for transition points (especially before Bibby was traded).
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
4:26 pm
The Game has changed,
I think LD worries too much about how we match up with other teams instead of worrying about how teams match up with us..
I think that is one of the things that got Avery Johnson fired in Dallas. As the #1 seed, he changed his lineup and rotation to try and match up better with Golden State the #8 seed, instead of forcing the Warriors to adjust to him, or taking advantage of their weaknesses.
The Warriors won that series.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2011
4:28 pm
No problem with any of you guys statements concerning Jamal. I agree, but the same arguement applies to Marvin offensively that applies to Jamal defensively. He’s so bad offensively that it’s not worth having him on the floor, especially on a team that can’t score in the 4th. In my opinion, Marvin’s defense is no where close to Jamal’s offensive ability, and I’m sure Drew and Woodson feel the same way. I agree with the JR Smith comparison also, but the difference is Carl has much better options to go to if JR Smith is cold than Drew does. I personally would put Damien on the floor, better defender than Marvin, and he will attack the rim, but obviously for whatever reason that won’t happen. I personally would take the guy that has the ability to go for 50 one night and 4 the next, as opposed to the guy who will give you 8 points every night and pose no offensive threat, and is an average defender.
Also I say to most of you, that I don’t believe that defense is our problem, I believe offense is. The playoffs have proved that for the last 2 years. I’ve posted this several times. I don’t belive we averaged over 82 ppg in the Cleveland playoff series or the Orlando playoff series. We are too easy to shut down in the playoffs because we settle for too many jumpshots, and no one attacks the rim. For instance take the Denver game. I think Denver is one of the highest scoring teams in the league, we held them under their season average, but we only scored 87 points. Better defense was not going to win that game for us, better offensive execution was.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
4:31 pm
Start Teague Joe Damien Horford and ZaZa
Hinrich Duck and Smoove off the bench
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
4:32 pm
Damien is making about 1/6 now of what Jason Collins is
Westurd
March 22nd, 2011
4:34 pm
Our best looking games this past month came when temper tantrum throwing Josh Smith was out.
I don’t have the numbers, but know most of you would love to look them up. Someone prove me wrong cause I really think I am right on this one…
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
6:45 pm
northcyde,
Some valid points, but you are way off downgrading Hinrich.
His value is superior to his stats – just like Battier, for instance. It was not a fluke that he was called toream USA.
Jamal on the other hard is worse than his numbers – which are not out of his world.
You will notice that Rod conception of the game is so skewed that he miss understood you: as you say, most of the times when you are down etting stopsyou need to make a move to upgrade the DEFENSE and not try to go with a more offensive line up.
Good teams make runs by getting stops and then getting easy baskets in transition. Just like we did in Portland. In the rare occasions that Jamal plays D we become very good. The problem is that this rarely happens.
Rod thinks just like LD.
slimjr
March 23rd, 2011
12:15 am
HAWKS DID WHAT TONIGHT?????????????????????????????????????????
michael turner
March 23rd, 2011
8:20 am
As a die hard hawks fan i don’t even find interest in watching a hawks game anymore. They are all smiles after a win against detroit. News flash guys you’re suppose to be detroit. The hawks barely have any wins against playoff teams this year when last year that had a ton. Larry Drew is a you get what you pay for situation. Truth be told though he is garbage. The man is set to ruin jeff teague like woodson ruined his young guards. When will ownership decide to spend the money and give this city a contender not just a playoff first round team. Start at the top Larry Drew and Rick Sund must go. The city of ATLANTA needs to boycott every home game till we get a better product