For Hawks, Pistons behind, Bulls next
Greetings, all
Hope you’re well. Sorry I couldn’t blog Sunday night. Georgia State is introducing its new coach today (Monday), which I found out last night and so I had to start digging around to find out who it was, right about the time I was going to sit down to blog.
This will be on the brief side, so my apologies again.
- Not sure how much to take from the game. It’s a win, which is the important thing, but a) it’s only one win; b) it was against Detroit. Still, beats the alternative. The Hawks played with a bit more energy. Kirk Hinrich: “We talked about it as a team. We’re aware of it and there’s going to be nights that don’t go our way out there. We have to stick together, rely on each other and just play through it.”
- I counted 40 shots from 16 feet or more, out of 70. The Hawks started out shooting the ball well – they made seven of their first nine from 16 feet and out, and then 11 of the final 31. Off the top of my head, I’m not sure how this compares with a typical game, but it makes me wonder a little if the biggest difference in the game (opponent aside), or at least one of the biggest differences, was that the shots that they took went in after not going in against Miami, Denver, etc.
That said, I did think they were more intentional about running and to some degree played more physically on defense, although the Pistons still shot 50 percent from the field.
- The Jeff Teague update – 11th DNP. Larry Drew’s explanation – he didn’t want to start him because Tracy McGrady was a matchup problem, as well as Richard Hamilton. He said the starting unit got into a flow so he didn’t want to disrupt it. Also, he said he wanted to try to give Jamal Crawford more minutes than he would have otherwise to try to get him going before the playoffs start.
“I’m going to have to get him going and I’ve got to make sure he’s feeling good about himself as we move down the stretch,” Drew said. “He’s a guy we’re going to need down the stretch.”
- Chicago and Philadelphia ahead. Those games, I think we can agree, will be more telling than Sunday.
“We have to mirror this game but play with a little bit more energy and try to get the win against Chicago,” Josh Smith said.
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289 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
8:48 pm
Sautee, Woody won 47 the season that Josh, Al and Marvn all missed at least 10 ames each.
Najeh, I’m pretty sure that I qualified Woody maxing out the team in the regular season. I understand that I am one of the few around here who doesn’t care about margins of defeat in the playoffs… losing is losing. I have long since rejected the idea that “losing better” is a goal for a professional franchise. If we lose the 2nd round in 5 games this season, I won’t be throwing any parties.
AG, Teague’s defensive value (IMO) was trumped with the arrival of Hinrich. Hinrich is capable of defending, knocking down open jumpers and is less prone to the mistakes of an inexperienced PG.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:50 pm
AJ,
Nice catch. That’s probably a good indicator.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
8:51 pm
Sautee,
I understand SteveW’s emotion. I’m feeling it too. I feel like I have been sold a bill of goods by Drew and the Hawks organization. I keep telling myself that the Hawks are a playoff basketball team so be content, but I know bad basketball when I see it and it ain’t fun to watch.
What’s so frustrating is that this team could be so EXCITING to watch if they had a head coach who took control and valued having a point guard who could get the whole team playing a fast-paced style of basketball on offense and defense.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:55 pm
SteveW,
You and I had already “agreed to disagree” about where blame most laid. I was hoping to open a new thread since we had worn one down to the nub today.
I should have been clearer, in hindsight, but to be honest, I had already forgotten the you and I were on different sides of that argument. So don’t think I was pickin’ at ya’.
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:57 pm
“that”
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:14 pm
Sautee – And I’m in no way claiming Woody is a good Coach. He’s not. I just didn’t trust ASG to get a better one. And I guess you follow the games, and have a right to your opinion, like I do to mine. And I’ve stated repeatedly LD has done many things correct and have listed them.
But overall, he is probably one of the 5 worst coaches in the NBA right now, and is single handidly destroying this team. Every team has had injuries. And let’s look sometime at some horrible Hawks losses and you was out for us, and who was out for the other side.
A few examples:
Who was hurt for us when the Heat destroyed us Friday? Udonis was out for the Heat
Who was out for us against the Nuggets? Nobody
Who was out for us when crushed by Chicago? Nobody, but Carlos Boozer was out for them
Who was out for us when LA crushed us at home? Nobody
Who was out when the Knicks spanked us by 13 at home? Nobody but Billups was out for NY
BTW – You can’t use Bibby for an excuse for any of the above losses. These were all post trade obliterations with a fully healthy team, as healthy as NBA teams are this time of year, and many of them occurred at home and/or when the other team wasn’t at full strength.
Again, your entitled to your opinion. But look at the facts.
No injuries to lean on
No Bibby or Mo’ to blame.
No road to trip to whine about
Just plain stinkin’ – and it’s because of LD. Now I know the players should man up, play regardless of their coach etc.
But it’s pretty hard when you not on the floor. Or when you totally disregard the coach and there are no consequences.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:15 pm
“and you was out for us, and who was out for the other side.” “You” should be “who”.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:20 pm
AJ – With Teague, it’s not a matter of whether Hinrich should start or not with me. But Hinrich doesn’t need to play 48 minutes per. And Teague gives a nice 15 minute rest for him off the bench, and keeps up the defensive pressure.
But the last two games Teague has been out of the rotation entirely. And the Chicago game 9 or 10 games ago night also. That’s the issue.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:20 pm
Sautee – Thanks for the clarification
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
9:20 pm
SteveW,
I know you have a bigger fish to “sauté” but I am really wondering what a Buford Pusser is.
SteveW
March 21st, 2011
9:22 pm
Rev- Sheriff in Walking Tall
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
9:24 pm
oh yeah. Man that takes me back to my childhood.
Astro Joe
March 21st, 2011
9:26 pm
SteveW, I agree and said as much earlier. 10-12 minutes for Teague feels about right to me. Some continue to suggest that he should start, which I vehemently disagree with as we need 5 capable offensive players to run this offense that is 3rd worse since the All-Star game.
mykhalc
March 21st, 2011
10:00 pm
@Joe…co-sign on the benefits of Kirk. Teague needs minutes but Kirk needs to run this team…at least try to run it. KH/JJ/JS/AH/HA…roll with it ’til the big KA BOOM!!!
Master of the Obvious
March 21st, 2011
10:03 pm
Teague and wilkins (who should both be starting) are very capable offensively. They are both SLASHERS. They get to the cup and draw fouls which is a dynamic that we never had with JJ and now its nonexistant at all with Josh and Horford also going peremeter. Whats Our record when Teague starts? Not only that, but they bring speed and defense.
We don’t need all that (jumpshooting) offensive firepower thats been the problem the whole season. We DO need more Freethrow attempts(a product of attacking the rim)and Defense.
Teague (Like Rose, westbrook, and Rondo) stabilizes the PG position for us with his speed, on ball defense, and ability to get to the line. While Kirk is good, he’s just another jumpshooter on the team. He does however stabilize the bench. JT is also a better ballhandler at this point that Kirk. Teague is the future, Kirk is just support.
Jae Evolution
March 21st, 2011
10:04 pm
Knicks just crumbled during crunch time against the Celtics, it was tough to watch them play at the end.
Master of the Obvious
March 21st, 2011
10:08 pm
Starting linups are about balance, not just offensive(specefically jumpshooting) firepower.
Again, whats the Hawks record with Teague Starting at the PG spot?
cp
March 21st, 2011
10:10 pm
at least the knicks lost again
O'Brien
March 21st, 2011
10:29 pm
Wow. Despite having Amare and Melo, Knicks score 35 points in the second half. The Celtics scored 33 in the fourth quarter alone to beat the Knicks by 4. The Knicks are now 7-9 since the Melo trade, and are in 7th place.
I can understand Teague not starting, but Hinrich should play 30 – 34 mpg (imo). That way, he will stay fresh and will provide the tough physical defense we know he can. Teague needs a consistent 10 – 15 mpg (imo). What is LD going to do next year when his crutch (Jamal) is not here?
I was never a fan of the LD hire, because its hard for me to expect a guy who was the players’ therapist for 6 years to be able to instill change, and hold them accountable.
When Drew was asked in his introductory news conference about why Woodson had not taken more of Drew’s advice on how to change the culture of the team in the six years that Drew served under Woodson, Drew said, “That’s a tough question. Assistant coaches give the head coach as much information as they can. His job is to decide what to use. As a coaching staff, we did our job. Mike made a decision to use what he wanted to use.”.
Given the way the team has played, I dont know what advice LD could have given Woody. We still go ISOs more often than we should, and we still get jumper happy and cant score in crunch time, Teague still gets inconsistent PT. To make matters worse, LD can’t control Josh (or chooses not to), and Jamal has regressed.
The only big difference I see is LD ditched the switching. To me, Woody had to go, but LD was not the right hire. As Steve W said, once again the Hawks got it wrong.
Charlie Sheen
March 21st, 2011
10:45 pm
#Losing! Sizzle! Bye!
Najeh Davenpoop
March 21st, 2011
10:49 pm
I’d actually like to see Teague and Jamal get the same number of minutes — Teague exclusively at point guard, Jamal exclusively at shooting guard. I think 20 minutes or so for each of them would work just fine.
I also don’t buy the idea that Teague is more of an offensive liability simply because he can’t score. The effect Jamal has on the rest of the team, particularly when he’s at point guard, negates the value of his own individual scoring ability more often than not. When Teague is on the floor, either he’s getting in the lane or he’s getting the ball to someone close to the basket. When Jamal is on the floor at point guard, either he’s shooting jump shots or he’s passing to someone else who is shooting jump shots. Teague isn’t Jason Collins.
Jae Evolution
March 21st, 2011
10:52 pm
Well said Najeh, as far as tomorrows game I expect us to come to play. Tomorrow will be a true test of both teams with each of us having full rosters and no excuses, but with all that said if Jamal is guarding Rose, Teague gets a DNP AND we lose, I’ll lose it, Denzel in Training Day style.
sleepy
March 21st, 2011
10:55 pm
Teague is a horrible PG right now.I find it amazing that we pay out all that money for the “core” that some of you deemed untouchable and now want to tank by starting Teague .
JC2 is taking a bunch of a shots for a horrible team that has not beaten anything but other bottom dwellers since he arrived and somehow we miss what exactly about him ?
Ive never heard of a bunch of fans clinging to late first rd picks as somehow saving the franchise after paying out all that money to lottery picks they deemed untradeable…… embarrassing
JeJe
March 21st, 2011
10:59 pm
FIRE LARRY DREW
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
11:08 pm
JeJe,
Thanks for the FIRE LARRY DREW post. Just what I needed.
Rev in Tampa
March 21st, 2011
11:08 pm
And I am not being sarcastic.
N.D.T.K.A.
March 21st, 2011
11:22 pm
SteveW,
Totally agree with your assessment. I remember all of the people on the blog this summer griping about hiring Avery Johnson or Byron Scott saying that they would run the Hawks into the ground. Well, now you got the therapist LD and look how they run all over him.
People always commend Phil Jackson on his ability to take talent to an elite status. Hawks have talent. So why can’t LD get more out of the talent? Woody got more than this out of the Hawks.
The article Doc posted also summed it up: cheap A$$ ASG. I would have even settled for Dwayne Casey!!!
The thing that chaps my hide is that the behavior of the players on the court directly reflects the coach. Thus Josh shooting 3’s and not rebounding or playing in the post, Jamal C. ignoring Hinrich and Teague and jacking up shots while not playing D, Joe not giving a damn, Horford getting frustrated and playing lackluster, and Marvin looking lost as always point to L.D.’s lack of accountibility and leadership. LD said at his hire that his offense would fix alot of these problems.
Really, Woody would be an upgrade at this point. I was all for giving LD a chance but his lies and coaching are atrocious. Any decent organization would have fired him already.
Coach is the problem period. Hate to bring up family but send LD home with Jr. as another selfish loser.
N.D.T.K.A.
March 21st, 2011
11:31 pm
And Michael Gearon GTFOH with those comments about how much passion you have for the Hawks and basketball and how you have been around basketball with your father and the Hawks organization.
The gigs up!! Everybody sees the ASG for what they really are cheap, dysfunctional, and bad for the Hawks, Thrashers, and Atlanta sports team fans.
ASG should sell these teams and get on the first thing smokin’ out of town!!
Ruining a decent team and killing a fan base that was already in distress.
Grandad
March 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
You know somethin’,
it’s really hard to be a fan;
when you don’t like most of the players,
you don’t like the coach, or the GM,
and you neither like nor have confidence in the owners.
I’m talking about me.
It’s like Jerry Seinfeld said:
” You’re just cheering for the laundry ”.
The Hawks have one player that I really, really like.
There are probably a half doz. teams in the league
that have two or more players that I like. *Celtics
*[not to mention the coach] *Doc
I was a Celtic from birth until ‘68.
hmmmmmmmmmmm ?
Why have I traumatized myself for 43 yrs.?
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:36 am
Michael Gearon kick Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:37 am
Hawks stink like a wet puppy dog…………………………LOL
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:38 am
Aint won nam nothin in 43 FREAKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
March 22nd, 2011
12:41 am
Hawks are not talented at all.. They are mediocre at best!!!!!!!! They have been getting lit up over the past 10 weeks….
One and Done……………………………..Phil would never coach these scrubs
Little Fawkers
March 22nd, 2011
1:17 am
Could this finally be the last year of these underachievers playing together? I hope so.
+ God bless Drew for trying but dude is not head coach material. Maybe high school basketball.
+ Josh Smith needs to go get his Tiger Woods on for another team and take that ugly jump shot with him. Get in shape dude. Your arms jiggle like a fat man.
+ Marvin Williams. Oh Marvin…. Who the Hell even are you? I only remember you for the foul that got you booted from the Celtics game back in 2008. What have you done since that?
+ Are we stuck with Joe Johnson too for another 5 years? Really?
+ Maybe the Hawks should try the old school Boston white guy majority team next year. That will come across as racist but it’s not. Everyone knows the ATL is Chocolate City (Parliament) and full of distractions for black players. Boring white guys then would only focus on basketball and not out every night partying like these Hawks do. I know they do because my female friends that work in local bars tell me they are always in there. I mean ALWAYS.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:14 am
Sautee
March 21st, 2011
8:20 pm
SteveW,
about this: “And that’s not to say Woody was good, but he had improved the record every year, got us to 53 wins and a 3rd seed.”
OK, Steve, how many games would Woody have won this year, given the number of games lost to injuries, Bibby’s further decline, and an unraveling of chemistry?
**********
Sautee . . SteveW summed it up perfectly. Forget who we beat while we had people hurt ( and keep in mind that we played one of the weakest schedules in the league before the new year ). SteveW’s list of teams who we DIDN’T beat when we were completely healthy, is more alarming. And we lost a good number of those games at home, a place where we’ve been dominant the past 3 years. That’s what should concern people more than anything.
Woody wasn’t a good strategist. But he knew these players weaknesses and he tried to make them play the “right way”. Woody wasn’t the main reason why this team couldn’t get to the next level.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
3:37 am
Drew doesn’t pay attention to detail, nor history. Because if he did, he’d see that maybe THIS is the real Jamal Crawford.
Jamal’s career per 36 minute numbers, with this season’s per 36 minute numbers in parenthesis and his 09 – 10 numbers beside that:
17.2 ppg . . . ( 17.1 ppg ) . . . 20.9 ppg
2.9 rebs . . . ( 2.0 rebs ) . . . 2.9 rebs
4.4 asst . . . ( 3.7 asst ) . . . 3.5 asst
1.1 stls . . . ( 1.0 stls ) . . . 0.9 stls
2.3 tos . . . ( 2.3 tos ) . . . 2.0 tos
41% FG . . . ( 41.8% FG ) . . .44.9% FG
35% 3FG . . . ( 33.9% 3FG ) . . . 38.2% 3FG
84.5% FT . . . ( 84.5% FT ) . . . 85.7% FT
47.6% eFG . . . ( 48.6% eFG ) . . 54.5% eFG
52.6% TS . . . ( 54.5% TS ) . . . 55.5% TS . . . TS = total shot percentage
PER: 15.3 . . . ( 14.5 ) . . . 18.4
WS/48: .075 . . . ( .079 ) . . . .143 . . . WS/48 = win score per 48 minutes
So which is more like the REAL JAMAL?
The Jamal that we saw last year . . . or the one that we’re seeing this year?
How does Drew intend to get Jamal going? By letting him take even MORE bad shots?
If the Hawks need people to run data on things basketball and team related, I’ll gladly take a job with the ASG so that I can provide Drew with this kind of information.
SMH . . . Getting Jamal going, means that instead of shooting 0 – 5 from three, he “only” shoots 2 – 7 from 3.
tjhook
March 22nd, 2011
6:21 am
Let’s assess: everyone has learned LD wants a perimeter attack. It also appears that he prefers to work with veterans instead of a mix of old and new. I propose a trade for one the NBA’s perimeter threats. Tony Parker.
I would like to see Josh, Marvin and Jeff traded for TP and Richard Jefferson. Parker is more scorer than distributor so he and Joe could be a lethal backcourt especially since defenses would have to respect his dribble drives. Jefferson is an athletic throw in. I think Popovich would look at this because he like forwards that shoot Marvin and Josh and Duncan will need help defensively. Hill is not Tony Parker but a combo of he and Teague has potential.
Next we renounce JC1 and prepare to acquire another free agent since Horford, Johnson and Parker are already under long term deal. If Drew wants to shoot jumpers let’s get a great jumpshooter!
sam'l
March 22nd, 2011
6:34 am
If the Hawks have any pride at all, they’ll take it to the Bulls tonight……..Based on what they’re saying…..I think they’ll win…..
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
7:03 am
Well I guess we are back to “GIVE TEAGUE A CHANCE!” Everytime I read a quote from a hawks coach or player, I think about the ESPN commercial with the guy talking sports out of his butt.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
7:07 am
northcyde,
I dont think the Hawks pay attention to stats.
Last offseason (after our playoff beatdown), Hubie Brown talked about the ability of coaches to get players shots at certain spots on the floor where they have the most success statistically.
And this season, we’ve been talking about stats more and more. They need a statistician on staff (imo).
It starts with Rick. Given the switch to the motion offense, most of us fans thought Jamal would take a step back, so he should have been traded when he was at his peak. Rick decided to keep him. And LD has compounded matters worse by playing him at PG, and overalll, not saving Jamal from himself.
As much as I think LD should be replaced, I dont think Rick should be the one to hire his replacement, because I have no confidence in Rick to make the right hire.
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2011
7:08 am
From the new Hawks article;
With the team struggling of late, Drew was asked if that could mean a possible spot in the starting lineup for Wilkins. Drew hedged in his answer.
“At this point, I won’t rule out anything,” he said. “I do love what he brings to the table.”.
And we know how much he believes in Teague too. LD the politician…
Buddy Grizzard
March 22nd, 2011
7:13 am
I’m in no way claiming Woody is a good Coach. He’s not. I just didn’t trust ASG to get a better one. – SteveW
Co-signed. It’s not that ASG and Sund are incapable of identifying a top-flight NBA coach. It’s that they can’t afford one and none of them would want to be employed by the most dysfunctional ownership group in all of professional sports.
Hopefully the team can be sold by 2012-2013. They won’t fire Drew, much as he deserves it, because they won’t want to eat his $1m or so salary for next season and pay another coach. However, there might not be a season next year so we may be seeing the waning days of LD’s coaching career. Could you imagine him getting another head coaching job after he’s let go by Atlanta?
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
7:45 am
OB,
“Rick decided to keep him” (referring to Jamal)
The hard fact is that NO ONE OFFERED ANYTHING VALUABLE FOR HIM.
Everyone in the league knew that Jamal’s last year – which in my opinion was still detrimental to the team in many, many, many games and a good reason why our D went to the worse in comparison with Flip’s presence – was an anomaly as northcyde correctly pointed out.
An ANOMALY. At a management and coaching level, Jamal is perceived as badly as I constantly report here and on the Hawks Nest.
Only fools who have high octane, no defense systems may look at Jamal as anything more than a streaky shooter who an even bigger liability on D than an asset on offense.
Jamal’s D is atrocious and his offense is “going solo”, so he does not make anyone around him better which is the reason why his presence on the court to close the 3rd quarter and the whole 4th quarter keep on generating low scoring quarters for us.
Rev in Tampa
March 22nd, 2011
8:07 am
vava,
Good post about Jamal. It seems like I remember Drew expressing his desire to resign him. Maybe I am just remembering a bad dream.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2011
8:12 am
@ O’Brien . . . Yeah it’s obvious that they don’t pay attention to stats. Because if you went by the stats, our WORST 5-man lineup, is the very lineup that Drew is trying to force feed at times.
PG – Crawford
G – JJ
F – Marvin
PF – Smith
C – Horford
92 offensive rating . . . 123 defensive rating
In fact, when you look through those 5 man lineups, almost every lineup in which Jamal plays PG . . . FAILS. The only one that didn’t, was when Jamal was the point, and JJ and Mo Evans were the 2 and the 3, along with Smith and Horford. The rest of those lineups in which he plays PG, FAIL. So why Drew tries to force feed Jamal at the point, is beyond me.
Conversely, our best lineup is Teague + the “core” . . with Marvin. Why? Because of the defensive rating that group has.
114 offensive rating . . . 81 defensive rating
I noticed way back in November, that Drew tends to make offensive adjustments before he makes defensive adjustments. If a player is lighting the Hawks up, his response is to not try to slow down that player, it’s to put more offense in the game so that we can outscore that player.
*******************
So I agree, it’s Rick Sund who is culpable in all of this. Even if he is hamstrung by the ASG’s financial limitations, it’s up to him to make sound decisions on personnel and coaching moves.
People talk about LD costing the Hawks Jordan Crawford and a draft pick, because Sund was “forced” to trade them away for Hinrich. NO . . . Sund didn’t have to do that. If he thought that Kirk Hinrich wasn’t worth all of that, then he had no business trading those pieces to get a player who is decent, but nowhere near as good as he used to be.
It’s just been bad decision after bad decision by this ownership group and the GM all year.
tremaine
March 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
How about one of us win the lottery tonight and buy the hawks.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
8:44 am
I woke up this morning.
LD is still coach
Sund is still GM
FIRE SUND
Not Sund
March 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
Hey hey, easy on the sund.
L.D. is a career assistant, he was given a chance to be an HC and he failed. Let’s not point fingers, instead it’s time to put together a shortlist of cheap coaches who could replace him. This season is done.
vava74
March 22nd, 2011
9:32 am
northcyde:
“…to get a player who is decent, but nowhere near as good as he used to be.” (referring to Hinrich)
I have grown to like your posts with time (I think you have improved your quality recently) but I think you are completely out of line in relation to Hinrich.
Hinrich is an excellent player (B++) and has produced very good numbers playing with this dysfunctional group of nincompoops.
You should be aware that he is injured (calf) and even so has been able to produce solid numbers across the board.
The only thing you can point at him have been the excessive numbers of TOs, however, that has been a result of two cumulative factors: initial lack of knowledge of our offense and him trying to do too many things and too hard to make our zombies wake up from their slumber.
JeJe
March 22nd, 2011
9:37 am
LOL @ these articles about Horford enjoying playing against NYK and Chicago. The dude put up 6 &7 in Chicago in the last game.
Wow