Atlanta Hawks: Video: The new lineup

I talked Hawks today with CineSport’s Noah Coslov.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

55 comments Add your comment

winner

March 16th, 2011
2:10 pm

you know what it is…

KC

March 16th, 2011
2:27 pm

Louisville?!?

Hawks mane

March 16th, 2011
2:35 pm

Good work MC

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
2:52 pm

At least Teague is now finding a niche with this team as a defensive specialist. I wish he could’ve done this earlier in the season as a reserve PG, maybe he would’ve played more.

But if by him starting helps these guys that much on defense, then Drew has to at least go with this for a few more weeks vs Miami, Orlando and Boston, just to see how the lineup looks vs those teams. Especially against Boston, because that’s the team that has throttled us twice.

If the lineup is somewhat successful, and if it makes our bench stronger, this may be the way to go in the playoffs.

People just can’t expect great, or even good offensive numbers with Teague as a starter. But if he’s able to limit the other guy from going off, then he’ll be OK in his new role.

Rod from College Park

March 16th, 2011
3:09 pm

Marvin’s Grandma,

from the last blog’

“then its a guy on here name Rod from college Park, who always bash Marvin and praises Joe Max everyday…DAMN!”

I actually never praise Joe Johnson. I think Joe is a good player, and compared to Marvin he is a superstar, but I don’t like guys who show no emotion. It’s tough to get a read on them. That’s another reason why I bash Marvin. I bash Marvin because out of our sacred CORE, the only one who is consistenty terrible, is Marvin. Everyone else has their faults, but they all show up a lot more than Marvin does. He is truly one of the worst small forwards in the league, and is the only player on our team who has been given everything. He was only given a starting job because of where he was drafted. Josh, Joe, and Horford all improved their games every year, Marvin does not. Marvin’s balance, and his shot has become worse every year. He deserves every bit of criticism he gets. If it will make you feel better, I have been bashing him for 3 years. I can remember when most of the people on this same blog would attack me for attacking him. Boy how things have changed. Facts are your grandson is not a good basketball player. You need to be thankful that he was drafted by the Atlanta Hawks and not another franchise whose fans might throw eggs on him everytime he leaves his house. If he was drafted by the Knicks #2, and performed there like he has here, he would be public enemy #1 in New York.

MaxxHawk

March 16th, 2011
3:32 pm

Rod from CP also said “Marvin wouldn’t bust a grape” after the NYK game where Marvin went Artest on Shawn Williams. I’m still rolling from that one!

Grandad

March 16th, 2011
3:48 pm

Luol Deng: “This is all About Team”

“Once you start mixing things up, and I’ve seen it happen a lot around the NBA, it doesn’t always work out,” said Deng. “It might sound good on paper, but there’s only one ball out there.”

The obvious comparisons are with the Miami Heat and New York Knicks.

source / HOOPSWORLD

—- * Glory…Glory…this young man gets it * —- !

Rev in Tampa

March 16th, 2011
4:02 pm

MC,

Did you follow the Louisville Baseball team when they went to the College World Series in 2007. The grandson of one of the members of my church played on the team. He was the starting shortstop. He had a great series but he is more known for his height or lack thereof. His name is Chris Cates and is only 5′ 3″.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/apr/03/twenty-two-inches-separate-beloit-teammates-van-mi/

Freshfromatl

March 16th, 2011
4:42 pm

Good work MC

Najeh Davenpoop

March 16th, 2011
4:52 pm

“But if by him starting helps these guys that much on defense, then Drew has to at least go with this for a few more weeks vs Miami, Orlando and Boston, just to see how the lineup looks vs those teams. Especially against Boston, because that’s the team that has throttled us twice.”

It would be foolish to go with this lineup against Orlando or Boston, when Collins has shown he can handle Dwight one-on-one and Al has shown in the past that he can’t get his offensive game going against Dwight or Shaq. I like this lineup against most teams, but the Hawks tried going small against the Lakers to get the offense going and it backfired big time. There are certain teams against whom Al can’t play center, and the Magic and Celtics are two of them.

Against Miami, though, I think this lineup has a ton of potential. The only potential problem I see is Joe Johnson having to guard LeBron all game.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 16th, 2011
4:57 pm

I do, however, like the idea of keeping Teague in the lineup even when the Hawks go big with Collins at C and Horford at PF. The guy I’d send to the bench in that situation is Kirk Hinrich.

Against Orlando, LA Lakers, and Boston: Teague/Joe/Smoove/Al/Collins
Against pretty much everyone else: Teague/Kirk/Joe/Smoove/Al

Najeh Davenpoop

March 16th, 2011
4:58 pm

Whether or not Joe can handle LeBron would probably dictate whether I’d go with this lineup or with Teague/Joe/Damien/Smoove/Al against Miami.

lewis

March 16th, 2011
5:03 pm

Video is super spotty in 2 browsers so far it hasn’t really worked

drmaryb (*_-)

March 16th, 2011
5:09 pm

Hot-Rod in College Park!

” If he was drafted by the Knicks #2, and performed there like he has here, he would be public enemy #1 in New York.”
____________

Or, Public Enemy #2? See “Flava-Flave” Public Enemy #1.
Remember Rod, he was a bad pick @ #2. LOL!
___________

In defense of Marvin though, he has played better this year at times and has been very useful off the bench. His shot seems to fall more in his new role. But, from what we’ve seen, he has definitely reached his ceiling as a Hawks Basketball Player. 11 pts 5 rebs is great for this team, if he can do that consistently, we will stop the “hit – parade”.

dave

March 16th, 2011
5:10 pm

I like the new line up too, MC. ditto Najeh

W.R.Terrell

March 16th, 2011
5:10 pm

The question for today is “Can the “SOFT’S”. continue to contain Denver. I say they can but then it would mean for them to play basketball. That would mean the “smoove” person realizes he bogs down the running game when he brings the ball up court and not giving it to the guard, also, the “smoove” person need not launch shots from the outside but play hard on the inside. For our domination of Denver at home to continue then ISO Joe can’t POUND….POUND….POUND, it would also mean that Marvin must play like a baskertball player. Lets see what they are made of in the next 2 games.

lewis

March 16th, 2011
5:16 pm

throw that thing up on youtube or something so i can see it

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
5:17 pm

Najeh . . I didn’t say to permanently keep the lineup. I said try it against those teams. It’s not like we can afford to keep a big center in the game at all times vs Howard and Shaq. At some point, Horford has to simply “man up” and deal with those cats . . especially if it’s the 4th quarter.

And honestly, we need to see how Teague does against Rondo in a non-blowout situation, as well as a scoring PG like Jameer Nelson.

Might as well see how that lineup looks in a regular season matchup against them. We’re not going to be any higher than a 4 seed, and the teams behind us may not catch us anyway.

When it comes to the playoffs, I have no problem starting Collins vs Howard or Shaq. But we also need to see how that “small” lineup can handle those teams as well.

lewis

March 16th, 2011
5:18 pm

Josh and Al are not soft. That statement is just wrong.

The Game Has Changed

March 16th, 2011
5:26 pm

@Terrell- We are not soft. Dallas is soft. The Suns are soft. Not us playboy. We may have some issues but not our manhood. We proved that taking the Celtics to the limit and coming back against the Bucks and the Heat. Joe out played Wade but yall try not to remember those games.

drmaryb (*_-)

March 16th, 2011
5:28 pm

To be fair to Josh, his rhythm shots are just fine, and esp. With the short clock. His teammates are passing that ball to him, usually Al.

The bad shots are dwindling with each game as of late too. Josh has worked on his shot and has hit them very well practice, by all accounts.
Those kami-kaze passes on the breaks are what’s got me scratching my head and pulling that “razor sharp cheetah thong” outa’ my butt crack!

Ouch! Seriously, I get the Dennis Rodman passes, but Dennis didn’t turn those passes over to the opposing teams, like Josh does. He will do that 2 – 3 times in a row and like a blogger mentioned before, it is a momentum killer and game changer. Esp. to start the 3rd Qrtr.

Give that ball to the PG. We got one now, let him learn and get acclimated, Teague and Kirk. Jamal played the PG beautifully last night with 8 assists. We might be gelling guys. This would be the perfect time to do that. We look solid at the 5th slot, unless we topple the Magic.

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
5:28 pm

People have so much confidence in Teague, even though it’s Hinrich that has the playoff experience and will know what to expect when that time comes.

If the decision is to let Teague be the starter in the playoffs, that’s fine. But if he’s sent to the bench, he better play with the same kind of aggressiveness and energy that he’s showing now.

Make an impact, regardless of what grouping you play with.

The Truth

March 16th, 2011
5:30 pm

One thing concerns me about Teague in the starting lineup (so late in the season) is that he might be exploited by the opponent as the weakest offensive link in playoff games. In the playoff where every player is exposed, teams might cheat on Teague by spacing him to double others and dare him to make a jump shoot. If Teague had been worked into the starting lineup sooner, his jumper might be refined by now. Since it is what it is, Teague must now practice shooting jumpers during on-the-job-training to get ready for the playoffs to reduce this risk.

We’ve already experience similar incidences with Josh, now looks like it’s Teague time.

He was not a bad pick-Marvin's Grandma

March 16th, 2011
5:31 pm

@Rod from College Park I am from East Point, but that’s not the only reason i don’t like you, you post false info.. lets break down your post!
“I think Joe is a good player, and compared to Marvin he is a superstar, but I don’t like guys who show no emotion.”
Joe has never shown any emotion, so you must hate him right? And keep in mind Joe has a Max deal and is the face of the franchise, teams tend to take the attitude of their star!
“I bash Marvin because out of our sacred CORE, the only one who is consistenty terrible, is Marvin”
lies again my friend!…Marvin only get around 7 or 8 shots a game…his scoring average is about right for the amount of shots he put up..he also plays very solid D.
Lets face it Rodrick, this team is Joe Max’s team..name me one game where Marvin has lost for the Hawks?..the answer in 0, due to the fact we don’t use him..

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
5:47 pm

The Hawks are most definitely a “soft” basketball team. Even Drew had to call them out on their “softness” on a couple of occasions this year. I think he did it as recently as the Knick game.

I know fans like to villify certain players and protect others, but the whole team is soft from a physical standpoint . . or they just play soft.

Who goes head first into the defense, looking to draw a foul?

Who looks to mix it up on the inside?

Who occasionally gives a hard foul?

In the East, maybe only Indiana is softer than us. If it wasn’t for Hinrich giving us a little more toughness at PG, we’d be hella soft.

We’re soft in the same way as those early to mid 90s San Antonio Spurs teams were soft.

I MUS WRITE

March 16th, 2011
5:51 pm

Marvins the hot topic huh?Tthe only thing i want to hear about Marvin is that he’s been either traded or released…..Marvin Gaye Williams? C’mon Man. The poster showing him so much love must be his cousin-the movie buff.

Who cares about him being held back,it was probably for good reason. Marvin has been in a shooting slump all year-im almost suprised when he makes one.

Scouiting Report: 6′9 Athletic Sf, -Gets his shot blocked regularly by guys 4-5 inches smaller. Unable to get good post position even against the smallest of point guards.Was a good 3 point shooter until he signed his contract. no dog in this man at all. tends to get violent when asked about his failure as a #2 pick(hence the lazy punch thrown at (Shawn Williams). Drives end with him on the ground, shot blocked or fumbled out of bounds.

The Truth

March 16th, 2011
5:55 pm

Are we giving Marvin a bad rap as an inconsistent player? The numbers don’t lie. If inconsistent is measured in FG%, than our Alpha and Beta Dogs (JJ and Jamal) fairs no better with respect to MP. No agenda here, just keeping it real:

Marvin FG% = 45%
JJ FG% = 44.5%
Jamal FG% = 42%

So, if we are going to scream inconsistency, let’s label the whole team as inconsistent because your Alpha and Beta Dogs are the head of the snake.

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
6:00 pm

@ The Truth

Oh there is no doubt that the better coaches like Doc and Van Gundy are going to start devising gameplans to exploit Teague on both offense and defense. It’ll be up to Teague and Drew to foil those plans.

We already know that teams will double the hell out of JJ when he gets the ball out on the perimeter. So when the ball is swung to Teague, he’ll either have to knock down the open jumper, or quickly attack the paint..

On defense, I can see a guy like Rondo picking him up full court, putting pressure on him to really handle the ball and run the offense.

Teams aren’t planning for him yet . . but they will.

I MUS WRITE

March 16th, 2011
6:01 pm

Golden State is soft… The Nash/Nowitzki Mavs-soft …This team just lacks a true leader/superstar. besides Al and josh who are both 6′9 we dont have any presence in the paint.

Rod from College Park

March 16th, 2011
6:10 pm

Marvin’s Grandma,

“@Rod from College Park I am from East Point, but that’s not the only reason i don’t like you, you post false info.. lets break down your post!
“I think Joe is a good player, and compared to Marvin he is a superstar, but I don’t like guys who show no emotion.”

No real dude (person) from East Point would ever come on a blog, and support a player like Marvin Williams. I don’t believe you are from the southside of the A. If you were, you would know how terrible your grandson is. I can go find 10 better players at the Old Run and Shoot right now.

What did I post that was false? You stated that I love Joe Johnson, I responded that I don’t because I don’t like players who show no emotion. Joe Johnson is a good player, he is a 3 time allstar. I can seperate the fact that I don’t care for Joe being the leader of our team, from the fact that he is a goood player. Marvin is just not a good basketball player.

“lies again my friend!…Marvin only get around 7 or 8 shots a game…his scoring average is about right for the amount of shots he put up..he also plays very solid D.
Lets face it Rodrick, this team is Joe Max’s team..name me one game where Marvin has lost for the Hawks?..the answer in 0, due to the fact we don’t use him..”

Marvin gets 7 or 8 shots a game because he plays like a scared little girl. He is scared to take more shots. He has been given more than ample oppurtunity to take more shots, and all he does is dribble one time and pass to somebody else. The question should not be how many games has he lost, the question should be in 6 years, name me one game that he has won for us.

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
6:14 pm

I’m typing from my phone, otherwise, I would copy and paste what I wrote about Marvin in the last blog.

When compared to other SFs, the only thing Marvin is above average in, is FT shooting and rebounding. And even at 5.1 a game, his rebounding is kind of below average for a guy his size.

His 45% FG shooting is OK. But it should be higher, given that he’s a 6-8/6-9 SF, and sees 60% – 70% of his made FGs coming via assists. That means that unlike JJ and Jamal, who have to sometimes take and make tough shots, Marvin gets wide open looks ( like Smith and Horford does ).

If Marvin was just real good at something, he wouldn’t catch all the heat that he does. But he’s either average or slightly below average at just about everything.

That’s why it’s easy sometimes to overlook his presence on the court.

He was not a bad pick-Marvin's Grandma

March 16th, 2011
6:23 pm

@Rod from College Park
OK..i was at the game when Marvin hit the game winner against the wizards..Remember when Joe Max was hurt and Marvin scored 30 against Melo?…Remember the Houston game last year..How about the Boston game when he actually hit the go ahead basket, but Woody’s switching D caused us the game…..Its real funny that most of Marvin’s best games come when Max is hurt..that means roddy, that he needs more shot attempts son…..I am shocked that Drew refuses to run more plays for the guy…And i don’t understand why Marvin gets bashed when you see that this team has major problem elsewhere..lets start with Joe Max, the team leader, guy with Max contract..yeah he makes the All star team only due to having the ball all game, therefore his stats are padded..especially against bad teams..last night was a perfect example…We refuse to play a center, and I love Josh smith, but his shot selection is terrible and has cost the Hawks so many games!

Rod from College Park

March 16th, 2011
6:23 pm

“Marvin gets wide open looks ( like Smith and Horford does ).”

This is the key point. Marvin gets more clean looks than anyone in the league, due to Joe Johnson. His FG% should be much higher based on that fact alone. He has never experienced a double team in his professional basketball career, and when he is guarded, it’s usually by a guy who is 4 to 5 inches shorter.

ag

March 16th, 2011
6:25 pm

If Teague plays well tonight and becomes a starter the rest of the year, will he be part of the core?

ag

March 16th, 2011
6:28 pm

Like I said in that last blog, It Aint A Bad Pick never blogs during this time because it is close to game time and NEVER post during the game or shortly thereafter… Maybe just maybe….. naw.. couldn’t be Marvin reading the blogs..

Although Jamal admitted in a round about way he reads the blogs….

Rod from College Park

March 16th, 2011
6:29 pm

Marvin’s Grandma,

Out of 6 years, you name 4 games, none of which Marvin actually won a game for us, I don’t remember the Wizards game, so that game might be true. Drew would be an idiot to run plays for a guy who trips, stumbles, can’t dribble, can’t hit an open jumpshot or stay upright to save his life. You realize his is trying to keep his job right.

Lou. Cardinal in ATL

March 16th, 2011
6:32 pm

Go Cards!!! MC, I always knew you were a smart man.

northcyde

March 16th, 2011
6:51 pm

Hawks fans calling Dallas “soft”, is like Milwaukee fans saying that the Hawks are a bad shooting team.

ag

March 16th, 2011
6:57 pm

Marvin has scored 20 points in three games this season, two of which happened when Joe was hurt. His season high was during Joe’s absence. Yet in 10 games without Joe, he scored less than 8 pts 4 times. His best game of the season was the last game Joe played before he went out, Marvin scored 17 pts 12 rbs.

In 09-10′ Joe missed 6 games, Marvin scores in double figures only once (15points) and also has a 2 pt performance on 1-10 shooting.

In 08-09′ Joe missed two games, both games Marvin shined scoring 23 pts and 29 pts.

I will say it again, every season since 08-09′ his production has gone down. In his third year, he averaged 14.8 ppg and every year he improved. Since, his shots and average have dropped – even his FG % and 3 pt %. Ironically, that was Hortford’s first year, so we need to add a 5th guy to hinder Williams – Horford!

Rod from College Park

March 16th, 2011
7:01 pm

ag,

Trust me they read the blogs. The owners and coaches do as well. You would have to be an idiot to not want to know what the people who support your product think about it.

ag

March 16th, 2011
7:03 pm

Most athletes tell you they don’t..even the college athletes (i.e. Joe Cox etc)

Rod from College Park

March 16th, 2011
7:03 pm

ag,

Great stats. Sick of hearing that Marvin steps up when Joe is out.

ag

March 16th, 2011
7:04 pm

Okay at work and will watch game tonight so long until midnight GO HAWKS… START JEFF TEAGUE!!! .. oh my bad.. he is!

ag

March 16th, 2011
7:07 pm

Well meant to add again, Marvin has gained a lot of weight these last couple of years… that is the real reason why he is not producing

Najeh Davenpoop

March 16th, 2011
7:07 pm

“Marvin FG% = 45%
JJ FG% = 44.5%
Jamal FG% = 42%

So, if we are going to scream inconsistency, let’s label the whole team as inconsistent because your Alpha and Beta Dogs are the head of the snake.”

Joe and Jamal face much greater defensive attention and much greater roles in the offense than Marvin. Comparing FG% outright doesn’t really mean much, or else Nene would be the best front court scorer in the league year in and year out.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 16th, 2011
7:09 pm

“When compared to other SFs, the only thing Marvin is above average in, is FT shooting and rebounding. And even at 5.1 a game, his rebounding is kind of below average for a guy his size.”

He seems to be better at rebounding when he comes off the bench, though. I don’t know if there is a stat that backs that up.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 16th, 2011
7:10 pm

slimjr

March 16th, 2011
10:52 pm

Waive Marvin……

Gainesville#1

March 17th, 2011
3:25 pm

Marvin is not the problem. I said it a long time ago that Jeff Teagues lack of a jumper would hurt the team. He hustles and plays good defence but can’t shoot. I don’t think he’s that much better than Acie Law was. The biggest problems are that Josh keeps shooting and Joe only shows up twice a month.

The Game Has Changed

March 17th, 2011
7:47 pm

@Gainesville-On what planet do you spend most of your time. Marvin hasnt produced in five years. Marvin is the weak link. Thats why LD put him on the bench. He is garbage.