Hawks 83, Bulls 80
Greetings, all-
Hope you enjoyed the game. Abysmal first half followed by an inspired second half, led by Al Horford.
- Hawks gave up 30 points in the second half. That’s their best in a half this season by five points. Chicago shot 30.6 percent and had nine turnovers in the half after 51.4 percent and seven in the first half. The Hawks would have done even better if they’d done a little better rebounding. Chicago had 10 offensive rebounds in the second half alone, leading to eight second-chance points.
- Horford had it in another gear – 31 points, 16 rebounds, including 9 of 12 in the second half. Larry Drew: “He was an absolute beast tonight. … He was our anchor tonight. During the timeouts, he was in the huddles cheering the guys, and just telling the guys to keep plugging.”
I thought it was an interesting observation on Drew’s part. I didn’t get to ask Horford this, but I would imagine that with Josh Smith not in the game and not even on the bench, he felt more comfortable being a vocal leader like that.
- On the game-winning pick and roll: Drew: “We knew that with Jamal, they would be concerned with him coming off of a screen. He came off of a screen earlier and they semi-trapped it and then they broke out of it and then Jamal just broke the guy down and got the ball to Marvin in the corner. I knew that they would be concerned and really focused on Jamal coming off the pick and roll, so we designed a play that brought him off and he made a great pass to Al and Al just had a forceful roll and a strong finish.”
It reminds me a little of his thought process in the play against the Clippers that resulted in Horford hammered by Blake Griffin. The Hawks had run a play just seconds before in which Joe Johnson inbounded to Horford, who handed off back to Johnson. Drew saw how the Clippers jumped on Johnson, so he called for a fake handoff to take advantage of the overpursuit.
- Hawks were awful in the first half – the Bulls were winning loose balls and getting to offensive rebounds (which continued in the second half) while the Hawks offense looked stiff. It wasn’t producing open shots and when Johnson and Crawford had to go one-on-one they weren’t converting at the rim.
- The very crucial play at the end where Johnson defended Derrick Rose with the tenacity of a college walk-on, leading to the bad pass to Rose from Carlos Boozer that led to Johnson’s dunk at the other end can be credited, in a way, to Kirk Hinrich and Jeff Teague.
In the past, as you well know, Johnson has logged plenty of minutes chasing point guards from the first quarter on. Hinrich had Rose most of the night, and Teague had him for a spell, allowing Johnson to go against Keith Bogans.
“That’s what I was telling Kirk and Jeff before the game,” Johnson said. “I was like, Y’all chase D-Rose around early and, come late, I’ll get him in the fourth and give it everything I’ve got. They did a great job. When I got my chance to guard him, I just wanted to make it tough on him.”
I think MC has addressed this, but one huge benefit of the Hinrich trade is that Johnson won’t have those minutes on point guards like he did in the past. I don’t think Johnson’s complaining.
- More on Hinrich – not a great offensive game (1 for 5, three points, two assists) but his value is in Rose’s numbers. Rose was 5 for 21, including 0 for 6 from 3-point range, with 12 assists against six turnovers. I’d say it was an off night for Rose, but Hinrich definitely helped.
- Horford had his first 3-pointer of the season, a corner ball that came out of the offense. Horford shoots them in practice and isn’t bad, particularly from the corners, but said that he hasn’t taken them because the team has other 3-point shooters. He felt free to take it Wednesday because he said Drew has never told him not to take one.
“My heels were at the 3 (line) so I said, ‘I might as well take a step back and I was in a rhythm and I feel confident taking that shot,” he said.
- Smith definitely was missed. Chicago had a bunch of dunks, particularly early, that you’d think Smith would have challenged.
Drew: “Josh, he’s kind of a kamikaze. You know in transition with him bringing the ball on the break that there’s a chance the ball could end up in the stands somewhere but you also know he’s capable of making plays. I’ve come to the point to live with that. When he gets the ball off the glass and brings it down on the break, we are in an attack mode. … His energy when he’s flying all over the court just makes us a much more effective ballclub.”
- Thanks to Najeh for pointing out at the end of the game thread that Kevin Durant turned his ankle Wednesday night. Durant said he’s hopeful he can go Friday against the Hawks.
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118 comments Add your comment
JM
March 3rd, 2011
8:54 am
Great win for the Hawks! Al should officially be the leader of this team and both Al and Smoove should be the cornerstones of the franchise. The offense needs to run through them. To me it doesnt matter if Al is played as 5 or 4 or Josh at 4 or 3, as long they both think and play like a 4 on offense (I will say that Al’s range makes it okay for him to play a little farther away from the basket like Atlgent suggest). Go Hawks!
JM
March 3rd, 2011
8:57 am
Teague played well but was benched after a couple of bad offense plays. He needs to learn to that bigs can’t handle such hard passes in traffic. If its not there, circle around and reset the offense. Watch some Rondo tape young fella. Go Hawks!
northcyde
March 3rd, 2011
9:02 am
Atlgent . . I don’t think playing Al in a pseudo SF role is what is in his best interest, but I do see your point.
But your post illustrates how other people benefit from the opponent treating JJ like he is the focal point of the offense.
Contrary to popular belief, it is the mass attention that JJ and Jamal attracts to themselves, that enables others to be in good position to score the basketball. And those 2 attract that attention because they’re the main guys on the team that can create and make their own shot.
It’s no coincidence that the perfectly executed pick and roll was made possible because Chicago had all eyes on Jamal, not expecting him to pass the ball.
It’s also no coincidence that JJ had 5 assists to Horford in the 2nd half alone, due to the Bulls sending an extra person at even an ice cold shooting JJ. Why? Because he has the ability to score one on one and make tough shots.
It’ll always go unnoticed though when JJ is ice cold, that others are still benefitting from his presence on the court, because when doubled, he IS a very willing passer. And when Jamal is a willing passer, he has that same effect.
Fact . . Every one of Horford’s FGs last night came via assists, or from offensive rebound putbacks. He played a tremendous game. But that huge game doesn’t happen if not for our main attention grabbing guards drawing the attention, then passing Horford the ball.
Booo!
March 3rd, 2011
9:02 am
Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith make 4x the bonheaded plays than Teague could ever hope to make in a game. Why aren’t they “benched”? This double standard stuff is really starting to get to me. LD is full of it.
Teagues D is excellent and getting better, he rarely gives up points to the opposing guard.
OldskoolATLfan
March 3rd, 2011
9:09 am
It really gets my blood boiling to hear you people put down J Smoove! Najeh, your comments are most times insightful and dead on but not this time. Buddy Gizzard, go back to that shack in north Georgia and grab your fishing pole.
You can say that Smoove has poor shot selection, or even that he makes bad decisions, but at no time can you question his defense and heart.
Any astute basketball fan can see that this man holds our defense together almost every night, and his energy is always high. He does get frustrated on offense but that is the part of him that we have all accepted and live through.
The reason why we have had all the success defensively lately is because we now have a point guard that does not permit the opposing teams point guards to put pressure on our big guys by breaking down the defense. So if Smoove was out of position it was because he is the first to play help defense when the PG has gotten past our guard. Understand that when J Smoove comes back the defense will only get stronger.
Lastly, I’m tired of all the ATL fans complaining so much. Understand that we are not a complete team, but the pieces that we have are a very good team. We don’t have a complete point guard, we have two power forwards that could start at 4 for 95 percent of the teams in the league, we have a very very good 2 guard in JJ that plays the three more than he should, we have a under achieving 3 in MW that doesn’t shoot the jumper as consistently as he needs to and doesn’t play as physical as his body dictates, we have no center and a journey man bench with the exception of Jamal.
If the Hawks had a Center the current team would be title contenders. Even without one they will give all teams in the east a hard time with the current lineup. We are who we are, drafts could have been better but that is how it goes in the NBA. Some teams get lucky and get a Carmelo or Durant out the daft and some teams bomb and end up with a Sheldon Williams or Acie Law. These things are hard to figure. I’m down win or loose so Go HAWKS, give it all you got!
Mr. Phil
March 3rd, 2011
9:09 am
From John Hollinger at ESPN:
“The result, though frustrating for the Bulls, was one of the most riveting 83-80 games you’ll ever see. And, because of the continued impressive defensive results, it was also a game that adds a further dose of legitimacy to Atlanta’s post-trade aspirations of challenging the Eastern Conference’s top four teams.”
vava74
March 3rd, 2011
9:24 am
northcyde
March 3rd, 2011
9:02 am
Co-sign.
People overreact to boxscores. This is not basketball. Stats are important only to a point.
JJ played a man’s game last night, taking a beating and dishing out 9 dimes with just 1 TO.
Also, he was unlucky with some of his shots. It was simply a bad day.
Rev in Tampa
March 3rd, 2011
9:25 am
Any word on Josh Smith’s knee? Will he be likely to play on Friday?
Melvin
March 3rd, 2011
9:27 am
I’m still on a high after last night victory. This team showed a lot of heart to win that game. After that gutsy performance, I will refrain from any negative comments toward the Hawks players or organization at least until the next game. They earn that respect from me after the performance last night.
vava74
March 3rd, 2011
9:29 am
“this is not baseball”
Man Man
March 3rd, 2011
9:36 am
Heat fans know when they got a winner.Damn they just won the championship a few years back with Jason Williams and Garry Payton so don’t tell me Bibby won’t be a good pickup for them.All yall do is sit on here a degrate players flaws,but what about his strong points……………Shooting,Experience,Knows how to run the team.Damn every point guard don’t play good Defense in this league.Damn please know the game of basketball.The heat need leadership at the point and now they got it.If they outscore everybody they won’t need any offense.
Atticus
March 3rd, 2011
9:36 am
This game, as always is irrelevant. Everyone will show enthusiasm, the team will show signs as they always have, and then lose in the playoffs. Outside of Horford, this team doesn’t have it. Joe Johnson disappears for too many games, Josh is hot and cold, and they have a coach in over his head. Sorry that is reality. I love Horford and don’t even mind them getting Heinrich, but they can’t win in the playoffs.
vava74
March 3rd, 2011
9:44 am
We now have two leaders: Boss Al and Captain Kirk
Get to the 5th video and watch or re-watch their post game interviews:
http://www.foxsportssouth.com/pages/hawks
KevinM
March 3rd, 2011
9:45 am
Guys, if you think Al got slammed around last night, wait til Round 1!
This is the regular season…..
As for our roster, I can’t say that I am comfortable, but at least there is effort now that wasn’t really being addressed before…that falls back on Larry..he let’s that type of environment exist…you get what you deserve.
The only way this team wins in the playoffs….contributions from a group of guys, and guys who so far havent’ done it consistently.
Marvin should feel good about himself for about a minute…he still has work to do…but I will say he didn’t force anything last night.
He made up for his 2 slip ups with the Rose block his 3….so Marvin should have been in the + last night.
Give me Teague and Kirk sharing duties 50 times more than Bibster being the team favorite.
Funny how the whole Eastern Division had to go out and improve before Sund would do ANYTHING!
Last night was the 1st time in a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggg time I can remember wanting to will these guys to a win. It shouldn’t have taken until Game 61!
And I really didn’t miss Josh last night, though he is needed on this team…he has no replacment right now…unless Al is all-of-a-sudden going to go full-tilt like he did last night…I just think it was the Noah matchup that got him going. That’s a good matchup for us.
And now we see why we would never get a Corey Brewer…..9M from Dallas?
Sund would never be that committed to a guy who wasn’t part of the core.
He has awarded enough long-term contracts.
Sux being constrained by the cap.
Rev in Tampa
March 3rd, 2011
9:46 am
Atticus,
An unsubstantiated, negative post on a fans’ blog is even more irrelevant. Sorry that is reality.
JeJe
March 3rd, 2011
9:48 am
Start Damien Wilkins. The guy brings energy and is crafty on offense. Doing that, we can bring Marvin off the bench, where he is FAR MORE productive
JeJe
March 3rd, 2011
9:51 am
I thought this LD offense was supposed to facilitate things for Joe?
LOL
Rev in Tampa
March 3rd, 2011
9:58 am
I am surprised Marvin’s block did not make any of the highlights. I did not get to watch the game but it sounds like the block was a real turning point. I have posted the video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=839R7kGRKZc
northcyde
March 3rd, 2011
10:09 am
@ vava
JJ had a game like this earlier in the year @ New York. In that game, JJ was 3 – 15 FG. I think he missed something like 10 of his final 11 shots in that game. He missed 6 threes ( took way too many ). And he only scored 7 points.
But he grabbed 10 rebounds ( a team high ) and dished out 7 assists ( I believe 5 of those assists were for threes ).
I’m a “stat guy”. And sometimes, you simply need to look at the right stats. Popcornmachine.net has something they call “help value”.
Rebounds + assists + steals + blocks – turnovers = “help value”.
This is a stat category in which Horford and Smith almost always leads the team in every game. They both average somewhere between a 12 to 14 help value number in a typical game. JJ’s help value is usually a little above 8 in a game.
In that Knick game, his help value of 17 led the Hawks, despite his horrific shooting game.
Last night, he did it again, posting a help value number of 17, just edging out Horford.
A guy who has the highest help value number doesn’t necessarily mean that he had the best game. But it does show who is having an impact on a game outside of scoring the basketball.
The fact that JJ doubled his normal help value number on a night in which he was ice cold, showed that he still had an impact on the game.
Tremaine
March 3rd, 2011
10:12 am
I think one of the best things from last night was seeing the fans go crazy in the stands. ASG “IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME!”
Observation
March 3rd, 2011
10:15 am
Some of you Marvin Haters got so much hate invested in the man, must feels strange not to post a negative comment about him huh? Your hate has clouded your vision and made you speechless. I know it sucks to think that it is possible that you could be wrong about him. Anyway, you can crawl back under your rock until Marvin plays again. Your credibility just went south.
Freshfromatl
March 3rd, 2011
10:22 am
As big of a liability as Bibby was defensively, the Hawks were ranked 13th in defensive efficiency WITH Bibby. Replace him with someone who can actually stay in front of their man, and the Hawks go from decent to elite on defense.
northcyde
March 3rd, 2011
10:26 am
I like how Drew described Smith as a “kamikaze” type player.
That term does somewhat imply that he’s out of control at times, but it also shows that he’ll go all out and wil do whatever it takes to win.
That’s the reason why some will label Smith as a guy with “low BBIQ”, while others see him as a potential all-star.
To me, Smith is simply a risk taker. Sometimes, taking a risk isn’t the right thing to do. Other times, taking a risk is the only way that a play can be made. It’s that risk taking/wild card nature of Smith, that will always see people either support him, or criticize him.
Honestly, the only thing he needs to work on is when to take the risk or not.
The Truth
March 3rd, 2011
10:33 am
NC: “Honestly, the only thing he needs to work on is when to take the risk or not.”
Agreed
MJC
March 3rd, 2011
11:20 am
@northcyde: That may be the perfect way to explain Smoove’s game.
lewis
March 3rd, 2011
11:33 am
any word on Josh’s knee yet? its sketchin me out
SteveW
March 3rd, 2011
11:33 am
Josh is not only a risk taker, but a whiner whose complaining hurts the team. He also let’s bad calls affect him mentally. And occasionally he shows no heart, while at other times, he’s got the most heart of anybody out there. Get these intangibles under control, and you have a perennial All Star on your hands.
SteveW
March 3rd, 2011
11:37 am
No word on the knee yet. You would think if it was fine, they would just say, so that concerns me.
But they may be waiting until after OKC’s practice today to announce, so OKC can’t practice knowing for certain whether Josh will be in or not.
SteveW
March 3rd, 2011
11:40 am
Last nights game made ASG alot of money. If the Hawks come out and do the same to the Thunder, your looking at alot of enthusiasm for the Hawks in this city.
And baseball season hasn’t started, the Falcons aren’t playing, and the Yellow Jackets stink, so the Hawks are the only game in town right now, and happen to play 11 of the next 14 at home. Good combination
SteveW
March 3rd, 2011
11:45 am
Observation – Marvin has been playing pathetically in some cases recently. I mean to the point of feeling sorry for him. He didn’t even look like a DLeaguer out there. I’m no Marvin hater, but a Hawks fan, and when he consistently looks pathetic, you do just say give me Manny Harris and Trey Gilder and let’s move on with life.
But I always try to give the exception, unless Marvin breaks out etc. I think everybody honestly knows he has the talent. It’s the performance that is lacking many times. It’s like Northcyde said recently, just give us 12 and 6 with solid D, limited mistakes from Marvin and we’re happy.
SteveW
March 3rd, 2011
11:55 am
Thoughts – most have already been posted, and I’ve said some of them already, but here it goes:
Jamal is no PG, but he can pass occasionally. He just looks so unnatural and tentative doing it, you know it’s not his first option.
Hinrich/Teague has a much better sound than Bibby/Teague. I hope he keeps getting playing time. He sure looks natural with the Hawks out there. His leadership and O will come. And he did play alot of Point in college, did you guys not follow Wake Forest when he was there? He was the floor general when he was on the court, and yes he had “it”. Best player on the court most nights regardless of who he was playing against.
LD has struggled as a HC, but he has alot of basketball knowledge.
I’m glad Sund traded Bibby and Mo’. Why LD kept playing them lamost exclusively and not Wilkens and Teague in the mix is hard to explain.
The post draft analysis’ that this trade would help JJ has come true, at least on the defensive end.
Maybe JJ is saving up for the playoffs, so he can play in May like he did in January. It is a possibility.
The scouting report on the Hawks must be double JJ, because teams have been doing it more aggressively it seems recently.
Josh has a high basketball IQ, but also has maturity issues.
That if the Hawks really want a game, like Miami and the Bulls, they are hard to beat. I hope they are mentally tougher in the playoffs as well.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
12:10 pm
“It really gets my blood boiling to hear you people put down J Smoove! Najeh, your comments are most times insightful and dead on but not this time. ”
Don’t know why you’re calling me out — I am on your side. All I conceded in the earlier post was that occasionally Smoove has the lapses mentioned in the post to which I was responding. His overall positive impact outweighs any of that, since none of it happens nearly as often as his detractors like to claim.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
12:16 pm
“Also, he was unlucky with some of his shots. It was simply a bad day.”
I’ll remember to use that line the next time Smoove has a bad jump shooting game and everyone on here is pulling their hair out in rage and frustration at his alleged lack of basketball IQ.
Observation
March 3rd, 2011
12:16 pm
SteveW
“I’m no Marvin hater, but a Hawks fan, and when he consistently looks pathetic, you do just say give me Manny Harris and Trey Gilder and let’s move on with life.”
No you’re no hater but others are. Why do you represent them and feed the hate? Marvin has the right to struggle just like other players but singled out. By you responding to me means you are stirring up hate again. At least when you bring up his past struggles also recognize his contribution toward the win last night. Protect your credibility and leave this topic alone.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
12:22 pm
“The heat need leadership at the point and now they got it.”
They have three max players and they need leadership?
“Heat fans know when they got a winner.”
I guess they don’t show off that knowledge by showing up to games…
“If they outscore everybody they won’t need any offense.”
Dept. of unintended irony where you at?
doc
March 3rd, 2011
12:24 pm
get josh a good sports psychologist like smoltz got and he is HOF er.
learn controlled chaos is all he needs.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
12:25 pm
“A guy who has the highest help value number doesn’t necessarily mean that he had the best game. But it does show who is having an impact on a game outside of scoring the basketball.”
Then again, I would argue that Hinrich had the second most impact on yesterday’s win, and his help value probably sucked.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
12:29 pm
northcyde @ 10:26, co-sign. Smoove’s problem is overconfidence. He thinks the risks he takes have a higher rate of success than they actually do.
On the flip side, I wish Al would become more of a “kamikaze” player. Last night, he was. But in general, as efficient as he is, he’d probably help the team even more if he took a few more risks of his own instead of deferring or passing up good shots for the sake of moving the ball as he is so often prone to do.
JoJo the Godfather
March 3rd, 2011
12:43 pm
Has anyone talked about the zone defense the Hawks have been running more of the last few games. It seems to me that when we’re using it, that that’s when I’m seeing more breakdowns (layups & dunks by the oppositiion). Has anyone else noticed, or am I way off base?
The Truth
March 3rd, 2011
12:47 pm
Teague defers he’s an incomplete player, Hinrich defers he’s an emerging leader, go figure. But I understand the politics. Acquiring Hinrich at the cost we paid means he must be the starter. Teague will need to wait 2 years or a permanent injury to Hinrich before he upgrades his status. That will put him 4 years into the league. I hope he got the patience of Job because that’s a long time playing limited minutes.
cp
March 3rd, 2011
12:51 pm
Great win last night but how did this turn into a bash Josh Smith thread. If you don’t think he was missed last night then you didn’t watch the game. Powell, Zaza, and Collins were terrible out there defensively. They couldn’t grab a defensive board to save their lives. Guys were getting to the rim at will. Josh makes bad plays at times but dude is important to this team.Its nice to have two pg’s who can play defense. Hinrich was stellar on defense and Teague was good on the defensive end when he came in. He has to know his personnel though. You cant make those type of passes to guys like Powell because he has terrible hands…Hopefully Joe comes out of his shooting slump soon. If they can keep playing this type of defense I think they can make some noise in the playoffs.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
1:00 pm
“Has anyone talked about the zone defense the Hawks have been running more of the last few games. It seems to me that when we’re using it, that that’s when I’m seeing more breakdowns (layups & dunks by the oppositiion).”
I agree. As well as this team plays man to man defense now it makes no sense to go zone for more than a couple of possessions at a time just to change up the pace. It’s pretty clear this team doesn’t practice zone enough to be proficient at it within games, particularly against teams that move the ball well.
Kerry
March 3rd, 2011
1:00 pm
That’s what im talking about, Horford showed out, let’s kepp it up with Oklahoma on Fri, GO HAWKS!!!
mykhalc
March 3rd, 2011
1:13 pm
@Observation…Marvin is STILL the worst startin’ SF in the league…PERIOD!!! but as a Hawks fan i’m glad he gave us somethin’/anythin’ last nite!!! last nite doesn’t change who he is…
Grandad
March 3rd, 2011
1:25 pm
Observation
I defended Marvin for the past two years.
Now, I’m done.
Josh has grown over the years;
Marvin has regressed.
To be critical does not make one a hater.
*[however, I am, at this point sick & tired of Marv]
“he would have stuffed me in the basket”
says it all !
What amazes me is all the opprobrium,
along with the brickbats thrown at Josh.
Accordingly, ” I ” have been critical of Joe,
but this has more to do with not living up
to the responsibilities of his huge reward.
Admittedly, I did not see the game last eve
but according to the box-score MW’s game
was nothing to shout about.
*[yes he did have a couple of nice plays]
Bottom line, Marv has had ample time to show
what he is and what he is to be.
mykhalc
March 3rd, 2011
1:29 pm
and whomever said start Damien…COSIGN!!!!
jond
March 3rd, 2011
1:37 pm
Following a Wednesday MRI, Josh Smith remains day-to-day with a sprained right knee.
Now that we know there is no structural or ligament damage, owners can breathe a sigh of relief. It doesn’t mean that Smith will definitely play on Friday, but there is a chance. We’ll know more after Thursday’s practice.
Grandad
March 3rd, 2011
1:41 pm
Of all the stats, these are most important:
*[notice I did not say " the " most important]
(1) five man combination (+/-)
“It’s not your best 5 players, but your 5 best that play together”
– John Wooden –
(2) defensive field goal %.
(3) defensive rebounds (team & individual) / likewise opponent off rebs.
(4) turnovers (team & individual) ” Yours ” not [so much] opponents
(5) Good teams always ” make ” more FT’s than their opponents ” take “
Grandad
March 3rd, 2011
1:45 pm
Sign Joe Alexander from the D-League.
Golden State already signed Jeff Adrien.
Observation
March 3rd, 2011
1:48 pm
Grandad
“Admittedly, I did not see the game last evebut according to the box-score MW’s game was nothing to shout about.”
Your credibility is at risk for exposing your ignorance; if you didn’t see the game, then you have no authority to comment on Marvin’s contribution last night. The only thing worse than a hater, is one who’s a hater and doesn’t know it. Your hatred is exposed.