Atlanta Hawks: Back to (serious?) business

Wow, am I FIRST?

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MC,

Is there any truth to the rumors regarding Sessons or the Clippers?

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MC

some say that I am a DREAMER….

I do wonder sometimes who these bloggers cheer for.

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If Sessions or D. Harris gets moved to Denver in a trade for Melo, do you see a possibility of one of those PG and Nene for J Smith? This would enable to get an improved play from the “1″ and move Al to the “4″, his more natural position. Sund might even be able to get an extra draft pick out of Denver in the process.

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LOL @ Sesssions/Harris+Nene for Josh Smith.

What team EVER would trade Nene straight up for Josh? And now you want to throw in a former All Star / solid PG?

Wow

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You know your team is in trouble when Ronny Turiaf is better than anyone besides Jamal Crawford on your bench

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Marvin and zaza has to go, so trade those two and mike bibby for devin Harris. and I prefer to get devin Harris some how … so those three and a first round pick , thrn they can give all those we give them and some for melo to create a even better trade…

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MC,

If you get a chance to talk to Jamal, could you ask him about his slump? The last 4 games he is averaging 5 ppg, and is 0-10 from 3.

Is it because he’s playing more backup PG? Is it just the typical slump a shooter goes through? Is the trade deadline on his mind etc.

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Based on Rick’s comments (and history with the Hawks), I dont think the Hawks will make any moves. Knowing them, they will not get Sessions because his price tag will be too high.

And although Sessions will help us play better, I dont think he is the missing piece to help us get to the ECF.

That being said, I would definitely be okay with Rick trading Mo and Teague for him.

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JeJe,
So you telling me bibby couldn’t start for the heat,sacromento,the Lakers in place of D.Fish,or the T’Wolves?Its other places this man could start at.he may be old but he still shoots.Y you think the Lakers haven’t upgraded?

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Jeje, I hesitate to even inquire about any players that Cleveland has….a Sessions move doesn’t make it much better because we already know his limitations and his salary demands.
Rufus, I dunno, you sound like you understand what Sund is looking at and that a small change is all that is needed because we are so close.
I gotta disagree big time; our Big 3 is not better than any team above us…the closest we get to that is Orlando and 1 DHoward might make up enough of the difference there. Arenas, Turkolu and Richardson have not stepped up yet.
We sound like the only middle of the road team who is satisfied with how this team goes out there and competes. The word elite should not be part of the conversation. And there is a reason why the media this week can only say this team is ‘right in the mix’ of the East, while no one says they can even win a playoff series.

I think they have missed their chance at improving in the playoffs. That ship sailed this past summer with this core. We watch Miami and Chicago blow right by us and they have had zero time to get their chemistry together.
Like Barkley said about Blake Griffin, right now, Chicago and Miami must be getting by on their talent alone and have not learned yet to play basketball. Those 2 teams would not surprise me to be in the ECF going forward.

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Marvin being a punching bag is nothing new on this blog but lets be clear, Zaza should be the real outrage. There is a big difference between under performing and outrageously sucking. While Marvin may have not reached expectations for a variety of reasons, Zaza has been plain sucking for no reason. If the rational for resigning him was based on his age and growth projection, they clearly got hoodwinked because at 27 yrs old he has been on a decline for the last 3-years. His 14 MPG is killing us on defense not to mention his subpar offense. He is ranked 146 out of 219 in efficiency in the NBA so to say he sucks is no exaggeration. His negative impact is one big reason the Hawks are struggling this year. Last year, he stunk just as badly but “The Difference” Jamal was balling so well, it covered-up Zaza’s negatives. This year Jamal isn’t balling at the same level so Zaza negative impact is all so glaring. When he digs us into those familiar holes, Jamal isn’t bailing us out as last year. Zaza might (by himself) be the straw that is breaking the camel’s back since he is always the first big off the bench. In hindsight, the Hawks might have been better off letting Zaza walk and signing a top d-leaguer and gotten better production compared to him, (no joke).

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I like gilk’s idea of getting the PG that Nuggets get for Melo. Maybe we could get a package together for both the PG received and Nene…

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With all these ideas about pilfering the Nuggets once ‘As the Melo turns’ is over, you really think Sund has the know-how after 31 years of NBA retention to work a deal that is pending on a major seismic hit on the NBA landscape prior to Sund getting involved?
Wow, I got a good feeling what Sund thinks about our involvement in such discussions. Well, we got a good feeling from him as well how he deals with in-season deals as well, straight from his mouth.

Its a lose-lose for Atlanta fans waiting on Sund to make that major move to improve our chances of ‘A’ 2nd round playoff victory, much less a series victory.

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MC, AKA: Sgt. Joe Friday “just the facts ma’am”
is never going to let us in on any trade rumors,
goings on, speculation, chatter, or scuttlebutt…
because he is a newsman and he must verify
before reporting.
Yet;
this is a blog, and he hides behind that fact when using
a more earthy language or nicknames e.g. J-Smoove
as opposed to formal register.
But when it comes to feeding a starving fan base a few
tidbits of information whether or not substantiated,
he reverts back to Sgt. Joe Friday “Newsman” JTFM.

Not trying to be coy, but if there’s a trade;
Najeh, drmayb, O’Brien, et al will break it first.
So, keep reading the blog!

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“Sorry about the errors”

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I know there are ramon sessions trade rumors, but how likely is it for the hawks to acquire kirk hinrich with the expiring contract of jamal crawford? And also what about even looking to acquire camby, who would let horford play his natural pf spot? Or is Sund gonna do what he usually does and stay pat?

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“remember this is the final year of Rick Sund’s contract, too,”

I really, really hope he asks for a huge raise… one the DASG won’t be able to afford.

Sund has no plan. It made no sense to draft Jordan Crawford and not extend Jamal unless Jamal was going to be traded for pieces at other positions. Now we hear that Jamal is not going to be traded either. As good as Jamal is at times, a team that wants to stay under the tax and is as unbalanced as the Hawks would be much better served paying that $10 million to two or three quality players at different positions rather than one player.

This guy seems like he makes decisions using a magic 8-ball. Even BK had a plan — it may have been an unorthodox plan that ultimately backfired, but it was still a plan. What was the point of firing BK anyway when all his successor has done is overpay to keep the core he assembled?

BK > Sund

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Sund please make this trade:

Hawks:
Josh Smith
Mike Bibby
Jamal Crawford

Nuggets:
Nene
Billups
JR Smith

New lineup:
Billups
Joe
Williams
Horford
Nene

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I hope LD follows through on his threat and shakes up the starting lineup (specifically, I hope he starts Teague). I’m not counting on it — just like I’m not counting on the Hawks to make any intelligent moves at the trade deadline (like Jamal/Powell/Mo for Prince/TMac/Ben) — but I’m hoping against hope that it will happen.

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Thank God it’s the final year of Rick Stunk’s contract. If we do make a run in the Playoffs he’d probably be retained. Are GM contracts ever revealed?

And to man man,

LOL @ you thinking Bibby would ever start over Derek Fisher (one of the clutchest shooters I’ve ever seen as well as a brilliant psychological player who knows how to take charges….and I am not his biggest fans), Beno Udrih (solid player who has put up 25 pt games this year), or even Luke Ridnour (another okay PG).

Bibby is pure garbage. Look at his game log. The guy definitely has less than ten 20 point games in the last 3 years

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“No excuses” is the theme of the players this 2nd half.
There is NO EXCUSE if Horford does not get 17 shot attempts per game this 2nd half.
There is NO EXCUSE Teague should not get 20 minutes per game.
There is NO EXCUSE that if Drew believes Teague does not have it, someone he believes can supplant Bibby is not acquired before the deadline.
There is NO EXCUSE to play JC1 at pg when its negatively effecting his game and the homogeneity of the team – development of our future pg.
There is NO EXCUSE for J Smoove to stay camped out on the 3 point line all game long – Dominique was a small forward and drove to the rack (spin move) or played in the post more
Josh Smith ≠ RAY ALLEN
There is NO! I repeat NO EXCUSE!!! For The Hawks to get blown out at home to anyone again this year!

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Smoove for Cuuryy and beidrins. Give them a Second rounder

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Najeh,

Wouldn’t you think that what the ASKG REALLY is doing with Jamal is holding on to that expiring contract for headroom next year (with Al’s raise kicking in)?

I don’t think them not trading Jamal is necessarily an endorsement of his play.

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START JEFF TEAGUE

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I’ve long since come to the conclusion that Sund is a part-time GM. I believe Michael Gearon has his own feelings about certain players (that is, when he’s not having feelings about who to sue next) and that if he wants to keep them, then Sund is not going to offer even the smallest hint of a protest.

Sund is a GM when he is pushed or allowed to be one. Otherwise, he’s a paid consultant. In other words, he’s fine being “slow and methodical” when he isn’t being pushed, and fine doing whatever little bit of actual stuff Gearon actually wants him to do.

Just think about it. Did the Hawks puruse the Jamal trade, or did it fall in their laps? Look at the free agent acquisitions we’ve made. All have been near the end of the free agency period, and minimum contract types. There’s a common denominator: NOTHING HAS BEEN OUTWARDLY PROACTIVE.

Deciding on the coaching situation? Let Woody walk, promote Larry. Proactive? Not. It was a force situation, something HAD to be done.

Sign a SG/SF to backup the position that was one of the shallowest. Didn’t happen until JJ went down, and Marvin and Jamal had already incurred injuries. See? Force is what it takes to get things going.

All the rest of the free agency stuff was easy. Offer your own guys more money than anybody else is likely to, and you voila…your roster is filled.

Sad, twisted fact: We win enough to justify the lack of proactive measures.

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If you want to make a change at point guard, for the sake of not going with the same old issues, then you either start Jeff Teague, or acquire a pg that will:

1) Take Bibby’s place, or a lot of his minutes.

2) Force Jamal back to the SG position, where he truly belongs.

Make all the fuss you want about Ramon Sessions, especially those who keep insisting that Teague is the answer to our pg woes. There’s this thing called evidence. Sessions, regardless of whether he was playing for a losing or winning team, has proven what he can do at the position in this League. Teague has no such proof. For those insisting that such proof is only lacking because of Woody, and now Larry, I agree that his potential is not know because of either guy. But if he truly was an answer to the problem, surely two NBA coaches are not so blind that they can’t see his proof in practice and in games.

Nope, sorry. It’s not just the coaches. I supported Teague for a while as far as his potential. But what I wanted is not what many want. I wanted him to get 18 mpg, and that’s ALL I ever wanted, as I figured he could show what he was worth in that amount of PT. So many want him to start, and I think more than half are saying this only because they are tired of Bibby.

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Big Ray,

Nothing Outwardly Proactive.

Perfect Summation.

Big Co-Sign.

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Man yall need to stop re-posting the same ISH from the previous blogs.

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hawks need to trade sharif abdur rahim back to the lakers for pau gasol and leave bibby in san francisco and leave with some curry…

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There’s a reason why Big Ray has his own blog on the ajc. His 6:43 pm post is damn near perfect. Nothing proactive, always reactive.

Even the move that all of us THOUGHT was a proactive move ( trading our 1st round pick to get 2 picks a little later ), turned out to be nothing but a moneymaker for the ASG, because they sold the 31st pick.

When Sund and the ASG do something really proactive, I’ll believe it when I see it. Those 3 big men we signed in the summer would ALL be out of the NBA right now, had we’d not signed them.

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MC;
You should not be so hypersensitive.
I thought my points were clear.
(a) You use casual rather than formal register on the blog.
By your own admission [which is fine and dandy].
You say the blog is informal and we are your “blog people”.
(b) You claim journalistic integrity when the topic becomes;
“trade rumors”.
Then you suggest my attitude about your journalistic style
is due to my wish for a trade.
I would say that:
“I wish for the Hawks to develop a winning culture”.
Now if that be trades or whatnot & you report it then glory be!

Michael, the blog is a pastime for myself and others.
I’m ambivalent towards you as a journalist / blogger.
Which I reckon you could neither care more nor less?

If you throw out some news you hear…what’s the harm?
State it as such, hearsay.
Or could it be that you just don’t care to dig.
After all it’s only a blog.

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* ? Now it’s up to anyone who cares
to figure out where it should have been placed?

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northcyde, i’ve been saying that about our big men the day they were signed. Collins & Thomas, neither will ever wear another team’s uniform. They won’t make another roster.
You might be able to include Mo in that conversation as well. I had high hopes for him out of Orlando, and he never showed anything more than just being filler for 5 guys on the court who hit a few 3’s while employed by the ASG. He has fallen out of the rotation and fallen hard.
Fact is, all 3 are an offseason away from needing to update their resumes and stand in line with so many other fallen NBA pine riders.

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Agree, I get pissed every time I hear some trade rumor that has NO merit here. It simply gets my hopes up, only to dissapoint

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And the thing is, it’s likely Jamal will command at least $7-$8 million per year over three or four years on his next deal even with a new CBA. He’s going to be one of the better unrestricted free agents on the market. The chances of the Hawks re-signing him are pretty slim. If they swap him for several good expiring pieces, though, they can wait for the new CBA and pick and choose which ones they can afford to keep.

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“So many want him to start, and I think more than half are saying this only because they are tired of Bibby.”

I want him to start so that we can decide once and for all whether or not he’s good. Maybe he plays well with the starters and keeps the starting job. Maybe he sucks and proves once and for all that he “can’t ball” in the words of northcyde. I’d just like to know once and for all so we can quit arguing about him and the Hawks can move on accordingly. I think it’s fair to say that when he’s driving and kicking to Damien Wilkins or drawing the defense and dishing to Zaza down low, the result is going to be a little different than if he drives and kicks to Joe or draws the defense and dishes to Al down low. Let’s see once and for all whether he can make a big enough impact with the starters to be considered a part of this team’s future.

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SteveW= Rick Sund

LOL @ “Sund has spaced our salaries out masterfully years into the future with the cap.” Sure, we have a solid cap with the Starting 5 alone… BUT WE HAVE NO BENCH

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@ ag . . . I don’t know what Big Ray’s response will be. But as a person who sees as many Grizzlies games on TV as Hawks games, I can safely say that Thabeet is GARBAGE.

Stop using the word “potential”. Guys who have potential in the NBA usually show it beyond a shadow of a doubt by Year 2.

Thabeet is an unmotivated player who probably won’t become even an average center. Solo was a much better player in Year 2 than Thabeet on both offense and defense.

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Steve W,

I was wrong. Andre Miller’s deal was 3 years $21 mil. but only the first 2 years, $14 mil was guaranteed.

In Bibby’s first 2 years of his deal, he made $12 mil. But next year, we are paying Bibby $6 mil, while Portland does not have to pay Andre Miller a dime (if they chose).

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northcyde,

I dont understand what the fascination with Thabeet is either. They sent him to the D-League, and he couldnt even dominate down there. Just because he was a good shot blocker in college does not mean he will be any good in the pros.

Just look at Shelden Williams. Dude was known as “The Landlord” in college (he was a beast, and he owned the paint), and he was ACC defensive POY. But yet, he is about to be traded to his 7th team in 5 years.

Some fans are still talking about Marvin’s potential, and he has been in the league 6 years…SMH

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SteveW,

Not going hard after Dampier was probably his 2nd biggest mistake. But at the time, everybody thought that Al was C for 82 games, and going big had not yet been tried..

Actually, LD is on record as saying he always thought Al was a PF, so if Sund is listening to LD, I think LD would have wanted Dampier to give Al a break. Isnt that the reason why they signed Collins?

I think you are contradicting your comments…

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northcyde

On the one hand;
you have Fox News = zero journalistic integrity.
Yet FN causes a great deal of harm.
On the other hand;
“NBA trade rumors” may or may not = journalistic integrity.
But they don’t hurt nobody !

northcyde,
you tickle me sometimes.
But you don’t hurt nobody !

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ZaZa plays hard? Okay but he is terrible, even worse than Joncontract! I doubt he would be on any NBA roster either.

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Steve W,

The ZaZa contract does not bother me that much.

But as for Bibby, you think Philly (who would not give Andre Miller a 3rd year guarantee, despite being one of the healthiest PGs the last 10 years), that they were going to give Bibby a 3rd year?

Doubtful.

As for Al at Center, of course he still plays him there most of the time. Who else is LD going to play there? ZaZa and Collins for 48 minutes combined?

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And we low balled Marvin?

Do you know how many teams had the salary cap space to offer Marvin a 5 year $37.5 mil deal? And of those teams with the salary space, do you know how many of them were in need of a SF?

I dont, but a good GM knows the answer to those questions. And uses the information to his advantage. Marvin was injured 2 out of the last 3 seasons, what was he going to do? Hold out for more money?

Especially when a 6′5″ SG played well enough so that we didnt collapse when Marvin was out?

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If it came about that we ended up with:
Ramon Sessions + Ryan Gomes
and,
we lost Marv – JC2 -&- or – Teaguer – [Mo],
the Hawks would be a better team.

Bibby would be a designated gunner off the bench
-or-
start and give way to Sessions who would play more min.
When Jamal came in to play the [2] Joe would be free to play the [3].
Gomes, Josh & Joe could handle the min @ the [3] pos.

Basically we would be getting two quality NBA players for *one = [Marv]
*JC2 & Teaguer are not quality NBA ready…..yet.

Any way you slice it / it improves our depth this year.

Another point Sessions is a slasher who gets to the line.

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O’Brien – The blogmonster keeps eating another post from July 1st 2009 saying Bibby was most likely going to get 10m per year. Can you believe it?

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O’Brien – The above post was from the Examiner, July 1st 2009

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O’Brien – Remember posts like this concerning Marvin?

The most intriguing free agent: Marvin Williams

Postby HeroicKennedy on Wed May 13, 2009 2:56 am
Not necessarily the best or even the one to be had for the cheapest, but the kid really intrigues me. He’s bigger than Prince (230 vs. 215), he’s got good length and athleticism and seems to have started turning the corner as a player. His TS jumped from 51% to 54% to 57%, and his PER has jumped from 12.2 in 2006-2007 to 16.0 in 2008-2009. The guy seems to being making progress each and every season. I know a lot of people want to move Rip and bring in Gordon, but Gordon has actually regressed in the same period (TS stayed at 57%, PER dropped from 18.2 to 17.0). Something tells me that Marvin is on the verge of really busting out, but I think he won’t be able to do that in Atlanta thanks to guys like Smith and Johnson.

Not that I’m advocating simply removing Prince to bring in Williams, but I really think that Prince is the more valuable trading asset and would net us more than Hamilton, and that I’d rather have a 6′9 230 pound SF who’s showing good progress and has a lot of potential over the 6′2 SG who’s kind of maxed out and wants a lot more money. I don’t know how far Atlanta is willing to go to match, but I do think that Williams has a lot of talent and his size/strength potential could make him the second best SF in the East within the next 2-3 years.

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@ ag . . the following is from thememphisedge.com

************

Questions and answers with Grizzlies beat reporter Ronald Tillery

By Gary Robinson on February 16, 2011 12:37 PM

Share:

If you have questions you’d like asked of Ron Tillery, e-mail them to me at robinson@commercialappeal.com

** A question from reader Keith: Considering how well the Grizzlies have played over the last few games without O.J. Mayo, do you think they will try to make a trade for him at the trade deadline? Consider the trade packages below:

5. Milwaukee Bucks: Chris Douglas-Roberts, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, 2nd rd pick

While I personally believe that Mayo probably would benefit from a change of scenery given his troubles on and off the court in Memphis, I haven’t heard anything concrete that says owner Mike Heisley is looking to trade Mayo. Remember, Heisley called Mayo a “mini Kobe,” referring to Lakers guard Kobe Bryant. I don’t disagree with the notion that it’ll probably take Mayo to sweeten any deal Involving Thabeet. Right now, though, the Griz are more interested in moving Thabeet than Mayo in any package.

*********************

So if a team really wanted Thabeet, they probably could get him. But Thabeet ( or as the fan called him, ThaBUST ) is a garbage center.

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Northcyde – Co-sign – Thabeet is a terrible center. I have no idea how long it would take to develop him, if ever (probably never).

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stevew who? after that blog on sund being competent.

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Man, I wish the Hawks could acquire Harris, Felton or Hinrich. Seems like all three are available….

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The next trade the Hawks should try to get is Nene for Josh Smith straight up. Then you have this line up:

PG-Sessions/Bibby
SG-JJ/Crawford1/Crawford2
SF-Williams/Wilkins
PF-Horford/Powell
C-Nene/Zaza/Twin

That’s much better than what we have now!

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O’Brien – And this whole Gm stuff is such a dicey thing anyway. What if Marv signed for the 5 year deal he got, and then developed into an 18 and 10 guy? Now Sund’s looking like a genius.

Look at the Suns with Childress. He’s made them look stupid, and Sund pretty smart. And Thabeet and Mayo have made the Grizzlies front office look like idiots.

And Shelden, Acie, and Salim, as well as Marvin made BK out of a job.

What if JJ would have blown out a knee last season, he would have looked stupid rejecting Sund’s 4 year 60m offer. But he hit it big.

Brand blows out a knee. Redd the same. Kirelenko becomes oft injured. Now their front offices take a hit. So much is a dicey proposition.

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Steve W,

In the summer of ‘09…

25 year old Jarrett jack was available, and he signed for 4 years $20 mil deal. He averaged 13 points and 5 assists his contract year.

22 year old Ramon Sessions was available, and he signed for 4 years, $16 mil. he averaged 12 points and 6 assists his contract year.

31 year old Mike Bibby was available, and we offered him 3 years, $18 mil. he averaged 15 points and 5 assists.

32 year old Andre Miller was available, and he got 3 years, $21 mil (only 2 years and $14 mil guaranteed). he averaged 16 pts and 7 assists.

The fact that other PGs were available was an opportunity for Sund to get Bibby to accept a 2 year deal, or a lower annual salary. As a GM, you have to look at the market (supply and demand). And there were other options at PG.

I know Woody wanted Bibby back, but a good GM must also do what he thinks is right. Next year, LD will probably want jamal back. Does that mean Rick should potentially overpay to bring him back?

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SteveW,

about this: “LD wanted Powell for his outside shot, his practice presence, his locker room stuff, and to teach the Hawks how to get 2 rings.”

Never saw ANYTHING about this before we acquired Powell. I only saw that LD said something like that AFTER Powell was signed, that he was glad to have him for those reasons.

You make it sound like going after Powell was LDs idea.

Got a source?

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Steve W,

A good GM must also look at the makup of his team. With JJ doing what he does, Josh improving, Al improving, and Bibby doing what he does, how likely was it that Marvin was going to get enough shots to average 18 pts?

And lets say Marvin was to average 18 and 10, what if he was missing 25% of the season every other year (which is what he did for 2 of the last 3 seasons before signing his deal)? Would it be worth it?

And did Rick not realize that the CBA would expire in 2 years, which would probably lower salaries, salary cap space etc?

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LD will not change the starting lineup. We will see the same guys we always see out there….I forgot who suggested it on here but I would be fine with giving Teague about 5 starts to see if he plays better with the starters. As bad as Bibby has been on the defensive end I dont see how it could hurt. Its time to try something new because I doubt Gearon lets Sund make any significant move. The price tag for Sessions is probably growing by the day.

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From the Denver Post;

The Carmelo Anthony trade saga is nearly over.

Indications are that a trade is imminent with the New York Knicks, with only minor details to be worked out before an agreement is reached, a league source said..

I am ready for melo to be traded, so other deals can take place.

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Steve W,

Of course that’s what his agent said.

I just think if Sund was a good GM, then he would have found a way to make the deals more favorable.

Why not offer Bibby 2 years, $16 mil, and then a third year team option for $6 mil? That way he gets an extra $2 mil per year, and the hawks have the option of keeping him for a 3rd year.

At his age, was Bibby going to sign with a non-playoff team?

I know its a risk, but good GMs know how to play their cards. I think Rick Sund just plays it safe…

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O’Brien – I def. wouldn’t have offered 8m per to Bibby, not even for 2 years. The guy was coming off of a 14.9m per year contract, but he had clearly declined. Who could know that Bibby would pull a Koncak on us?

I was going to get you quote from Portland, lobbying for Bibby before they got Miller, calling his contract “modest” and “reasonable”. But his is getting old. You think Sund overpaid. All I’m saying is following it at the time, it was just about market value, slightly overpaid, but you did it to please the 5 year vet Coach who was in a contract year, and give him no excuses for not winning.

So we may could have saved a mil a year. That’s not much in this world of NBA high finance.

But I can show you some bad contracts, if people need to be reminded…

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“his” should be “this’ in my last post

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OB, since this Melo deal is nearly done, prepare to see the Knicks pose a serious threat to the 5th playoff slot.
It won’t take much to blend Melo and Billups into the Knicks’ pick and roll schemes. They lose some of their balanced talent, but it should be worth it to get Amare some big time help.

No excuses going forward, as Joe would say.

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ESPN is reporting that Melo is a Knick. I think the trade wont be official until tomorrow when the NBA office re-opens…

The four team above the Hawks and the team behind the Hawks have made major addition to their teams since this summer. Now what is Sund and ASG going to do?

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so is the reason why the Knicks wanted to act this season is so Carmelo can get the most money vs having to leave it on the table by signing w/ the Knicks this off season or taking the money w/ the Nets..

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NeNe .. Big Moz.. JR.. and Raymond Felton all on block.. sheesh.

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KevinM – First of all, Sund didn’t draft Childress, BK did.

But Sund did quickly assess that Childress was not worth what he was asking. So Sund looks like a smart guy for not signing him, because Josh has turned out to be somewhat of a major bust in Phoenix at 5-6m per year.

That’s what I meant.

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hopefully Dwight wants to come home and makes the Magic send him ..

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our schedule just got a little easier w/ 2 games left against Denver..

that remaining Knick game just got a bit more interesting.

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Knicks gave up a lot to get Melo but Billups, Fields, Melo and Amare is a pretty solid 4 man tandem….

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Did I watch a different games? IMO, Amere did not eat Al’s lunch. I think Al played the better game in NY against Amare. Amare did play better at the all star game, but not against Al in NY last week. Did you see what Al did to him when Amare tried to take the chair from under Al: Straight to the basket. Embarrassing for Amare. Did you see Al block Amare’s shot? Amare ate Al’s lunch? Really?

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the Nets also are in play for Gallinari and Moz.. for 2 first rounders..

i like Prokhorov’s style.

hey, the lost Melo but the Nuggets actually coming away good.

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LOL . . ESPN just took the Chicago game on ESPN off the board . . and replaced it with the March 6th game vs the Knicks.

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The Melo trade is more of a bummer to see other team’s GMs’ actually earn a living.

Sund has the best job in the world. To earn his paycheck all he has to do is publicly say, “I like our core”.

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SteveW
LD credits Byron Scott, Doug Collins and Alvin Gentry as mentors.
Can’t really blame him for not listing Woody.

I think he and Byron Scott were together when they “cooked up”
this current version of the motion offense. [NJ]

Ramon Sessions well versed in Byron Scott’s offense…..hmmmmmmm.

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Big Dave – Are you sure we have another game left against the Knicks? I think we’re done with them.

Grandad – I have read were Sessions is a bad defender. But I sure hope all of that is wrong if we obtain him.

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Grandad – Yep, I was just about to post about Gentry, Scott, and Collins. But know, being mentored by Woody wouldn’t help his chances with the Hawks. Ha!

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The Point Forward – si.com

The passing of a wild All-Star weekend means we have digested, barfed up and re-digested most of the key storylines that will define the last 30 games of the regular season: the trade deadline, from ‘Melo to (Troy) Murphy, and all its implications; whether the looming lockout has made teams gun-shy; the recent struggles of the Lakers; what is shaping up to be a dynamite six-team playoff race in the bottom half of the Western Conference; the return of Roddy Buckets; the rise of the Bulls; and many, many more.

But here’s one underplayed storyline I’m very curious about: We’re about to learn a lot about the Atlanta Hawks, and what we learn could have a significant impact on the future of the franchise and the Eastern Conference.

On the surface, the Hawks are having a fine season. They’re 34-21, tied with the powerful Magic in the loss column and on pace for 51 wins, just two fewer than last season. They’ve played more road games than home, and their 17-12 road record is one of the best in the league — typically a predictor of good things in the playoffs. Watch any Atlanta game, and you’re almost certain to hear the opponents’ announce team describe the Hawks as some sort of forgotten contender.

But peel away the surface gloss, and this looks like a mediocre team masquerading as an interesting playoff club, and there’s a good chance we’re about to see the Hawks tumble toward a win total in the mid-to-high 40s and first-round exit. The bad news starts with this: Atlanta ranks 15th in points per possession and 13th in points allowed per possession, just a tick above league average in both categories. That marks them as an average club, and its statistical profile suggests it should be something like 30-25, according to Basketball-Reference.

Even worse: Atlanta has managed this against what has been the easiest schedule in the league by a wide margin. That is going to change, immediately. Its remaining opponents have a combined winning percentage of about .550, giving Atlanta by far the hardest schedule among Eastern Conference teams. The Hawks follow the All-Star break with a five-game West Coast road swing that includes four games against playoff contenders. They still face the Lakers, Blazers, Heat and Nuggets twice each, and they have three games left against a Chicago team that should have both Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer in tow.

And if you watch the Hawks, you know this team has not solved any of its foundational problems, despite all the early praise for coach Larry Drew’s decision to ditch the Iso-Joe offense that bogged down so often against elite teams. Things started well on that end, with the Hawks scoring more efficiently and getting to the line more often — the latter an expected result of a motion offense designed to get defenders on their heels.

Now? Only four teams get to the line less often, per shot attempt, and the Hawks’ offensive rebounding — once a key strength — has vanished. They still isolate too much, and they fare poorly when they do; only six teams score fewer points per possession on isolation plays, according to the stat-tracking service Synergy Sports. They still don’t use Al Horford enough, and they still take far too many long two-point jumpers; only the Wizards, Heat and Bulls attempt more, according to Hoopdata. Atlanta is an efficient transition team, but it continues to play at one of the slowest paces in the league.

The defense has been solid, but suffers from the same fundamental problems that have bubbled up for years. Mike Bibby can’t defend point guards, forcing Drew to scramble for solutions to what is really an intractable issue. He’ll order the Hawks to switch on pick-and-rolls, a classic Hawks strategy that was supposed to be a bugaboo this season. He’ll use Joe Johnson on point guards for extended stretches and hide Bibby elsewhere, but teams with good balance will find a way to exploit the mismatches that move creates. When that blows up, Drew will go to a zone defense that has been inconsistent on good nights and awful on bad ones. The Hawks lean on Bibby for shooting and Jamal Crawford for scoring, and it’s just hard to play good defense with both of those guys on the floor.

The Johnson-Josh Smith-Horford foundation is solid, and this team can play with anyone on a night when everything is clicking. But the bigger picture is one of mediocrity and points strongly toward a poor last 30 games and a first-round loss to the Magic — the same team that demolished the Hawks last season by 25 points per game in a four-game humiliation. The Hawks have won two of their three games against the Magic this season, and Drew’s decision to start Jason Collins at center as a counter to Dwight Howard has appeared to bother Orlando. But Atlanta fans who point to those two games as a playoff harbinger are getting carried away. History suggests that regular-season head-to-head matchups mean little in the postseason. Also: One of Atlanta’s wins came before Orlando’s big trades and the other in the Magic’s first game with Gilbert Arenas, Jason Richardson and Hedo Turkoglu.

You’ll recall that Orlando’s destruction of the Hawks came in the second round last season. Ditto with Cleveland’s 2009 sweep of the Hawks, in which the Cavs won every game by double digits. A first-round loss and, say, 48 wins would be a huge step back for a franchise that has talked about moving forward in its development.

And such a step back could result in the jettisoning of multiple players once thought to be franchise cornerstones. The Hawks are on the hook for between $31 and $35 million combined to Horford and Johnson every year through the 2015-16 season. Barring some sort of amnesty or salary rollbacks in the new collective bargaining agreement, they’re going to be totally capped out until after the 2012-13 season, when deals for Zaza Pachulia and Smith expire. Marvin Williams is scheduled to earn about $8 million per year through 2013-14.

This does not look good for the Hawks, obviously. They can either ride with this group through 2013 even though they don’t appear to be anywhere close to contending, or they can try to move long-term money soon in an attempt to free up some cap space earlier. They’re reportedly open to moving Williams now, and though he hasn’t produced at a level that matches his salary (or draft status — sorry, Hawks fans), he feels like a guy who will produce as an important role player on a good team. And everyone around the league is waiting for Atlanta to seriously dangle Smith, a move that would make me sad, since Smith, having just turned 25, should be a franchise keeper and not someone you deal because you badly overpaid Johnson.

The worst thing: Even if the Hawks manage to move one of these guys, they still may not be able to do much on the free-agent market until 2013 — particularly if the new CBA includes a reduced salary cap.

Maybe this team will prove the math wrong over the next two or three months. Maybe it will come together, rise to the level of its competition and at least push its first-round opponent to six or seven games. Maybe it’ll even advance to the conference semifinals again.

But I wouldn’t bet on it.

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Horford talks Hawks’ playoff potential, trades
ATLANTA HAWKS | COMMENTS

Al Horford said the Hawks feel confident in their ability to go far into the postseason this year. (Ray Amati/NBAE via Getty Images)

I touched on Atlanta’s upcoming schedule and long-term cap situation Monday morning. In a happy coincidence, Al Horford and I are two of the few NBA-related out-of-towners still in Los Angeles. We met for a one-on-one at the NBA’s Jam Session on Monday, and Horford answered a bunch of questions about the state of the Hawks, the Eastern Conference and his jump shot. Here’s what he had to say:

The Point Forward: You guys are having another nice season at 34-21, but you’ve got by far the toughest remaining schedule among Eastern Conference teams. Is that something you talk about as a team? Do you worry about that in terms of playoff seeding?

Horford: [laughing] I actually wasn’t aware of that, man — that we have the toughest schedule. I didn’t know that. So it’s one of those things where we’re going to have to take it game by game. You can’t look ahead at all. A lot of those games are at home, so at least that’s a good thing. (Note: 15 of Atlanta’s 27 remaining games are indeed at home.)

PF: As things stand now, you would face Orlando in the 4-5 series in the first round. We all know what happened last season in the playoffs, but you guys have beaten them twice this season with Jason Collins starting at center against Dwight Howard. Are you guys more confident you can beat Orlando in a seven-game series if it comes to that?

Horford: Oh, yeah. We’re a lot more confident against them this season as opposed to last season. If we have to do it, we do feel like we have a really good chance.

PF: The Eastern Conference is better this season and going forward than it was a year ago, with Chicago on the rise and Miami set for the next half-decade. Do you look at your record — you’re on pace for about the same number of wins this year as last — and your cap situation and worry about the team’s place in the conference in the next few years?

Horford: No question. You have to look at that. Everyone else is getting better, and that opens up questions as to what your team is doing and whether we need to make changes. What happens in this postseason is going to be really important in that sense.

PF: The worst-case scenario is that you lose in the first round, which would be a step back from where you finished the last two seasons. Would that change your long-term view of the franchise?

Horford: I definitely agree that would be a huge step back or us. We feel like we do have the capability to go deep into the playoffs.

PF: Let me be more specific — you guys are pretty much capped out until 2013, at least as things stand now. That raises the possibility of either going forward with this group of guys or making a move to free up cap space before then. Is that something you guys talk about internally — the possibility that someone like Marvin Williams or Josh Smith could get moved, even in the next three days before the trade deadline? Would you support something like that?

Horford: I don’t worry about it, and it’s not something we talk about as players. We don’t talk about the salary cap. But I do want to be in a position where I can win and be successful, and whatever it takes for us to do that, I’ll be supportive of that.

PF: There have been reports that the team has put Marvin Williams on the block. Do you ignore those, or do you start thinking in your head about what the team would be like without him?

Horford: Oh, yeah, you think about it. Marvin is one of our core guys. He’s a starter. You wonder about it, for sure. But the general manager [Rick Sund] makes those decisions, not us. He’ll do whatever he feels is best. Same thing with Josh. It can really be any of us.

PF: Let’s talk about on-court stuff. There was a lot of hype earlier in the season about Larry Drew moving away from so many isolations and implementing a new motion-style offense. But how different are things, really, from your perspective? Sometimes I watch you guys, and the offense — the sets and stuff — do look a lot more motion-oriented. But in other games, like against the Knicks before the All-Star break, you tend to isolate more — and in that game, you had good matchups to do it.

Horford: We’re a little bit more of a half-court team this season. Last year we were running more. And I think we need to get out and run more and freelance more. Coach Drew is doing a good job, it’s just that sometimes we tend to get away from running more and the things we do best.

PF: When I hear players say that — that the team is not always doing what it should be doing on offense — I always wonder why that is. Is it because of the coach’s philosophy and play-calling, or are players breaking plays on the court and improvising? Some of both?

Horford: It’s both. A lot of times, we as players get caught up in saying, “Oh, we’ve got a mismatch!” But teams in this league are very good at positional defense. They’ll double-team you and front you and really disrupt that mismatch.

PF: You guys are playing a lot more zone defense this season. Do you feel it’s working? Do you like it?

Horford: It’s really different for us. We weren’t used to it at first. But it’s always good to mix it up on teams. Overall, it’s OK. I’d rather play man-to-man, though.

PF: You’ve got a pretty unique-looking jump shot, in terms of form. It obviously works, but it’s not textbook form. Your feet come apart and you almost tend to slide instead of jump, it looks like. Have coaches tried to change that form?

Horford: I’ve worked a lot with Mark Price, and he told me that it’s really all about footwork. But he did say that he wasn’t going to change my form. He wants me to use my legs a little bit more, and that seems to work for me.

As for my feet, the further the shot is from the hoop, the more I tend to be square. As I get closer to the rim, my right legs goes in front of my left leg a bit for some reason.

PF: You mentioned going further from the hoop. Any plans to add the three-point shot to your game?

Horford: Yeah, eventually. I have to put in the work, but it’ll be a part of my game I some point. I made a couple last season. [Note: Horford is 2-of-11 career from deep, with both makes coming last season — one in the regular season, one in the playoffs.)

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Hawks cannot beat the Bulls. Kurt Thomas owns us.

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Grandad – I sure understand that. I wish the Cavs would take Bibby and our two 2nd picks the next two years for Sessions. At least then we would have a good young BC with Sessions and Teague. Maybe LD would be forced to play them

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Lewis – Thanks for the post. Good stuff.

2012-13 cap – For example – Miami has 65+ mill committed to 6 players: an aging DWade, a 33 year old (then) Mike Miller, a 32 year, undersized PF in Haslem, LeBron and Bosh.

We have 61+m committed to 7 players: a 31 year old super athlete JJ, a 27 year old Josh, 26 year olds Al and Marvin, 24 year olds JT and JC2, and a guy who turns 29 during the sesaon, ZaZa.

We’ve got more players, more cap space, younger players – Who’s in the worse cap position, us or the Heat?

The Bulls will have Boozer pulling down about 19m, Deng about 19m, Noah 12m, and who knows how much Rose will be making. Did that without looking, numbers may be off a bit. But they’re toast, and know it. They’re desp. trying to move Deng, so they can sign Rose. And watch Boozer get hurt, he does alot.

The Magic have Hedo on the hook for about 11m, and Arenas for 21m or so – that’s terrible.

We are in good cap space compared to the rest of the League.

Even the Knicks will have an aging, injured Amare, and Melo making 22m per, and he’s hurt alot.

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I forgot the beast – Joel Anthony off the Heat above – they’re committed to mister 7.0 PER for 5 years as well.

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Najeh – You are exactly correct

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ESPN’s poll: “Which of these teams is the favorite to represent the East in the NBA Finals?”

The choices: Heat, Celtics, Bulls, Knicks, Magic

We like our core.

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trade for nuggets nene

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“Spot on..the easiest schedule by far the first 2/3 of the season, and now the toughest…future opponents are at .550….here we go!”

Yes, the real Hawks will be revealed and it will not be pretty down the stretch! Down goes Frazier!
PREDICTION: AFTER THIS NEXT MELTDOWN, SUND AND JC1 WALK!!!!!! BOTH CONTRACTS ARE FINISHED…………….BYE RICK SUND, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED……………….

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Freshfromatl,

I understand your belief that a trade will happen before the deadline. With the Hawks weaknesses at center and point so glaring, the unbalance of the team, and the players who have become available in the aftermath the Melo-drama, it is only rational the Hawks would make a move. I felt the same logical imperative this summer when Shaq was available. The logic was irresistable, but nothing happened. If a trade occurs I think it will underwhelm us. We may pick up Sessions in exchange for some of our spare parts. But I am not holding my breath waiting on Sund to find a way to bring in Nene, Felton, etc. I think Big Ray was right when he observed that Sund is reactionary rather than proactive.

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Enter your comments here

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Joe Johnson still an All-Star, but he had doubts. LOLOLOL…I have serious doubts also. Lets face it the Hawks gave away too much money for his kind of play and they will never reap the rewards because there are none. I see Devin Harris name is being mentioned and Ramon Sessions as a possible point guard replacement for Mike Bibby. They will have the same headaches, Josh the smoove” smith. Who thinks he’s Mr. everything will grab a rebound and bring it upcourt and anything the point was seeing is over and done with. Stop blaming Mike Bibby, he’s not your scape goat. Here’s an idea, how about some plain and simple basketball sense….ooops..I’m sorry THERE’S NONE!!!!

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