Atlanta Hawks: Back to (serious?) business
Los Angeles–Near the end of the Hawks’ shootaround at Madison Square Garden last week, L.D. watched Bibby, Joe, Al, and Josh playing some kind of game (I haven’t exactly figured out the rules but making shots seems to be a secondary goal to keeping the ball in the air with tip shots).
“You ever see that ‘Twilight Zone’ episode, ‘Kick the Can?’” L.D. asked. “That’s what this is right here.”
That classic episode involves old folks who get to be children again and use the opportunity to play games. L.D. was saying the Hawks are a bunch of big kids, and spend any amount of time around the team and you will discover that’s pretty accurate.
There is a goofy chemistry with these players. Guys like each other and have fun. It’s the serious stuff they aren’t always so good with.
“This is one of the loosest teams you will find,” Al said. “I think sometimes that can be a good thing for us and sometimes that can be a bad thing.”
There’s no better time for fun than the All-Star game but look at what Kobe did Sunday night. It was just an exhibition game but you could see he decided no one else was going to win the MVP in his building. So he went out and did his thing (with J.J. hounding him when things got serious at the end).
Kobe then had a message for Al: “He told me, ‘See you on Tuesday.’”
Was he serious?
“You never know with him,” Al said. “He’s probably dead serious.”
Clearly the Hawks are a bunch that likes (and maybe needs) to have a lot of fun. But with a tough remaining schedule and fourth place in the East looking like a tough task it’s time for them to get dead serious, too.
I was listening to KG on this subject the other day. It was surprising to hear him talk about clowning around with his teammates since his ultra-intense image doesn’t seem to allow much room for goofing off. How do the Celtics strike a balance between having fun and being fierce?
“When it’s not competitive, then it’s easygoing,” KG said. “I can separate the two. It’s not that big of a thing.”
He makes it seem easy but it the Hawks still haven’t figured it out.
“I hope we can come back in this second half with a renewed sense of urgency every game we play,” L.D. said. “It’s down to 27 games. I don’t care what happened the first part of the season, it comes down to this. We have got to do things with a sense of urgency and totally commit to the team.”
All-Star roundup
Al played just 10 minutes Sunday, second-fewest behind KG, but that was by design. Doc asked him about his health and Al told him his back “is still a little sore.”
“I felt like I played the right amount of time and made the most of my time on the floor,” Al said.
And how is the back?
“The back is OK,” he said. “It was just all about being able to share the experience with the guys and play a little. I’m happy Joe got to go out there and show what he’s got.”
J.J. ended up playing 20 minutes. He was on the floor at the finish after D-Wade (ankle) took a powder. Joe slipped out of the interview area before I could get to him.
Back to work
The Hawks regroup for practice in L.A. tonight and I will file a report after. L.D. said he would evaluate the lineup over the break but wouldn’t necessarily make a change.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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188 comments Add your comment
bigdave
February 21st, 2011
11:04 pm
the Nets also are in play for Gallinari and Moz.. for 2 first rounders..
i like Prokhorov’s style.
hey, the lost Melo but the Nuggets actually coming away good.
bigdave
February 21st, 2011
11:05 pm
*they
the work of shrewd front offices ..
lucky for their fans.
northcyde
February 21st, 2011
11:07 pm
LOL . . ESPN just took the Chicago game on ESPN off the board . . and replaced it with the March 6th game vs the Knicks.
northcyde
February 21st, 2011
11:07 pm
Unless that was done previously, and I just missed it.
Hawk n the Ham
February 21st, 2011
11:10 pm
The Melo trade is more of a bummer to see other team’s GMs’ actually earn a living.
Sund has the best job in the world. To earn his paycheck all he has to do is publicly say, “I like our core”.
northcyde
February 21st, 2011
11:10 pm
Barring a total collapse by us, the Knicks won’t be able to catch us for the 4th or 5th seed. But they do have a fairly easy schedule and could definitely put pressure on both us and Orlando to play well down the stretch.
Grandad
February 21st, 2011
11:13 pm
SteveW
LD credits Byron Scott, Doug Collins and Alvin Gentry as mentors.
Can’t really blame him for not listing Woody.
I think he and Byron Scott were together when they “cooked up”
this current version of the motion offense. [NJ]
Ramon Sessions well versed in Byron Scott’s offense…..hmmmmmmm.
lewis
February 21st, 2011
11:14 pm
i checked earlier today and that game was supposed to be on espn
at least we were on national tv a lot last year
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:20 pm
Big Dave – Are you sure we have another game left against the Knicks? I think we’re done with them.
Grandad – I have read were Sessions is a bad defender. But I sure hope all of that is wrong if we obtain him.
Grandad
February 21st, 2011
11:21 pm
Battier switches to Boston;
I’m goin’ over with him.
I cannot begin to imagine how good the Celts
will be with Battier !
They will be old but who cares,
they will be good.
Plus, they will play the game the right way.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:23 pm
Grandad – Yep, I was just about to post about Gentry, Scott, and Collins. But know, being mentored by Woody wouldn’t help his chances with the Hawks. Ha!
Wabe
February 21st, 2011
11:24 pm
Hawk n the Ham
February 21st, 2011
11:10 pm
The Melo trade is more of a bummer to see other team’s GMs’ actually earn a living.
Sund has the best job in the world. To earn his paycheck all he has to do is publicly say, “I like our core”.
Co-sign 100%.
lewis
February 21st, 2011
11:26 pm
The Point Forward – si.com
The passing of a wild All-Star weekend means we have digested, barfed up and re-digested most of the key storylines that will define the last 30 games of the regular season: the trade deadline, from ‘Melo to (Troy) Murphy, and all its implications; whether the looming lockout has made teams gun-shy; the recent struggles of the Lakers; what is shaping up to be a dynamite six-team playoff race in the bottom half of the Western Conference; the return of Roddy Buckets; the rise of the Bulls; and many, many more.
But here’s one underplayed storyline I’m very curious about: We’re about to learn a lot about the Atlanta Hawks, and what we learn could have a significant impact on the future of the franchise and the Eastern Conference.
On the surface, the Hawks are having a fine season. They’re 34-21, tied with the powerful Magic in the loss column and on pace for 51 wins, just two fewer than last season. They’ve played more road games than home, and their 17-12 road record is one of the best in the league — typically a predictor of good things in the playoffs. Watch any Atlanta game, and you’re almost certain to hear the opponents’ announce team describe the Hawks as some sort of forgotten contender.
But peel away the surface gloss, and this looks like a mediocre team masquerading as an interesting playoff club, and there’s a good chance we’re about to see the Hawks tumble toward a win total in the mid-to-high 40s and first-round exit. The bad news starts with this: Atlanta ranks 15th in points per possession and 13th in points allowed per possession, just a tick above league average in both categories. That marks them as an average club, and its statistical profile suggests it should be something like 30-25, according to Basketball-Reference.
Even worse: Atlanta has managed this against what has been the easiest schedule in the league by a wide margin. That is going to change, immediately. Its remaining opponents have a combined winning percentage of about .550, giving Atlanta by far the hardest schedule among Eastern Conference teams. The Hawks follow the All-Star break with a five-game West Coast road swing that includes four games against playoff contenders. They still face the Lakers, Blazers, Heat and Nuggets twice each, and they have three games left against a Chicago team that should have both Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer in tow.
And if you watch the Hawks, you know this team has not solved any of its foundational problems, despite all the early praise for coach Larry Drew’s decision to ditch the Iso-Joe offense that bogged down so often against elite teams. Things started well on that end, with the Hawks scoring more efficiently and getting to the line more often — the latter an expected result of a motion offense designed to get defenders on their heels.
Now? Only four teams get to the line less often, per shot attempt, and the Hawks’ offensive rebounding — once a key strength — has vanished. They still isolate too much, and they fare poorly when they do; only six teams score fewer points per possession on isolation plays, according to the stat-tracking service Synergy Sports. They still don’t use Al Horford enough, and they still take far too many long two-point jumpers; only the Wizards, Heat and Bulls attempt more, according to Hoopdata. Atlanta is an efficient transition team, but it continues to play at one of the slowest paces in the league.
The defense has been solid, but suffers from the same fundamental problems that have bubbled up for years. Mike Bibby can’t defend point guards, forcing Drew to scramble for solutions to what is really an intractable issue. He’ll order the Hawks to switch on pick-and-rolls, a classic Hawks strategy that was supposed to be a bugaboo this season. He’ll use Joe Johnson on point guards for extended stretches and hide Bibby elsewhere, but teams with good balance will find a way to exploit the mismatches that move creates. When that blows up, Drew will go to a zone defense that has been inconsistent on good nights and awful on bad ones. The Hawks lean on Bibby for shooting and Jamal Crawford for scoring, and it’s just hard to play good defense with both of those guys on the floor.
The Johnson-Josh Smith-Horford foundation is solid, and this team can play with anyone on a night when everything is clicking. But the bigger picture is one of mediocrity and points strongly toward a poor last 30 games and a first-round loss to the Magic — the same team that demolished the Hawks last season by 25 points per game in a four-game humiliation. The Hawks have won two of their three games against the Magic this season, and Drew’s decision to start Jason Collins at center as a counter to Dwight Howard has appeared to bother Orlando. But Atlanta fans who point to those two games as a playoff harbinger are getting carried away. History suggests that regular-season head-to-head matchups mean little in the postseason. Also: One of Atlanta’s wins came before Orlando’s big trades and the other in the Magic’s first game with Gilbert Arenas, Jason Richardson and Hedo Turkoglu.
You’ll recall that Orlando’s destruction of the Hawks came in the second round last season. Ditto with Cleveland’s 2009 sweep of the Hawks, in which the Cavs won every game by double digits. A first-round loss and, say, 48 wins would be a huge step back for a franchise that has talked about moving forward in its development.
And such a step back could result in the jettisoning of multiple players once thought to be franchise cornerstones. The Hawks are on the hook for between $31 and $35 million combined to Horford and Johnson every year through the 2015-16 season. Barring some sort of amnesty or salary rollbacks in the new collective bargaining agreement, they’re going to be totally capped out until after the 2012-13 season, when deals for Zaza Pachulia and Smith expire. Marvin Williams is scheduled to earn about $8 million per year through 2013-14.
This does not look good for the Hawks, obviously. They can either ride with this group through 2013 even though they don’t appear to be anywhere close to contending, or they can try to move long-term money soon in an attempt to free up some cap space earlier. They’re reportedly open to moving Williams now, and though he hasn’t produced at a level that matches his salary (or draft status — sorry, Hawks fans), he feels like a guy who will produce as an important role player on a good team. And everyone around the league is waiting for Atlanta to seriously dangle Smith, a move that would make me sad, since Smith, having just turned 25, should be a franchise keeper and not someone you deal because you badly overpaid Johnson.
The worst thing: Even if the Hawks manage to move one of these guys, they still may not be able to do much on the free-agent market until 2013 — particularly if the new CBA includes a reduced salary cap.
Maybe this team will prove the math wrong over the next two or three months. Maybe it will come together, rise to the level of its competition and at least push its first-round opponent to six or seven games. Maybe it’ll even advance to the conference semifinals again.
But I wouldn’t bet on it.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:27 pm
doc – Yes, but I always thought the big 3 could work together. But to me, ‘Melo is halfcourt, Amare is full court. And how is Shelden going to work in a fast break O? I think Billups can go fastbreak or halfcourt O.
I can see where they really don’t fit. But time will tell, and they should at least be entertaining.
I think within 2 years, Amare will be hurt, and ‘Melo will end his career with being often injured, and this turns out bad. But this year, with Billups, they may cause some problems.
So what if the Knicks get the 5th seed. I kinda hope they do. I’d rather face the Bulls in the first round. We definitely have more experience than Deng, Noah, and Rose in the playoffs..
lewis
February 21st, 2011
11:27 pm
Horford talks Hawks’ playoff potential, trades
ATLANTA HAWKS | COMMENTS
Al Horford said the Hawks feel confident in their ability to go far into the postseason this year. (Ray Amati/NBAE via Getty Images)
I touched on Atlanta’s upcoming schedule and long-term cap situation Monday morning. In a happy coincidence, Al Horford and I are two of the few NBA-related out-of-towners still in Los Angeles. We met for a one-on-one at the NBA’s Jam Session on Monday, and Horford answered a bunch of questions about the state of the Hawks, the Eastern Conference and his jump shot. Here’s what he had to say:
The Point Forward: You guys are having another nice season at 34-21, but you’ve got by far the toughest remaining schedule among Eastern Conference teams. Is that something you talk about as a team? Do you worry about that in terms of playoff seeding?
Horford: [laughing] I actually wasn’t aware of that, man — that we have the toughest schedule. I didn’t know that. So it’s one of those things where we’re going to have to take it game by game. You can’t look ahead at all. A lot of those games are at home, so at least that’s a good thing. (Note: 15 of Atlanta’s 27 remaining games are indeed at home.)
PF: As things stand now, you would face Orlando in the 4-5 series in the first round. We all know what happened last season in the playoffs, but you guys have beaten them twice this season with Jason Collins starting at center against Dwight Howard. Are you guys more confident you can beat Orlando in a seven-game series if it comes to that?
Horford: Oh, yeah. We’re a lot more confident against them this season as opposed to last season. If we have to do it, we do feel like we have a really good chance.
PF: The Eastern Conference is better this season and going forward than it was a year ago, with Chicago on the rise and Miami set for the next half-decade. Do you look at your record — you’re on pace for about the same number of wins this year as last — and your cap situation and worry about the team’s place in the conference in the next few years?
Horford: No question. You have to look at that. Everyone else is getting better, and that opens up questions as to what your team is doing and whether we need to make changes. What happens in this postseason is going to be really important in that sense.
PF: The worst-case scenario is that you lose in the first round, which would be a step back from where you finished the last two seasons. Would that change your long-term view of the franchise?
Horford: I definitely agree that would be a huge step back or us. We feel like we do have the capability to go deep into the playoffs.
PF: Let me be more specific — you guys are pretty much capped out until 2013, at least as things stand now. That raises the possibility of either going forward with this group of guys or making a move to free up cap space before then. Is that something you guys talk about internally — the possibility that someone like Marvin Williams or Josh Smith could get moved, even in the next three days before the trade deadline? Would you support something like that?
Horford: I don’t worry about it, and it’s not something we talk about as players. We don’t talk about the salary cap. But I do want to be in a position where I can win and be successful, and whatever it takes for us to do that, I’ll be supportive of that.
PF: There have been reports that the team has put Marvin Williams on the block. Do you ignore those, or do you start thinking in your head about what the team would be like without him?
Horford: Oh, yeah, you think about it. Marvin is one of our core guys. He’s a starter. You wonder about it, for sure. But the general manager [Rick Sund] makes those decisions, not us. He’ll do whatever he feels is best. Same thing with Josh. It can really be any of us.
PF: Let’s talk about on-court stuff. There was a lot of hype earlier in the season about Larry Drew moving away from so many isolations and implementing a new motion-style offense. But how different are things, really, from your perspective? Sometimes I watch you guys, and the offense — the sets and stuff — do look a lot more motion-oriented. But in other games, like against the Knicks before the All-Star break, you tend to isolate more — and in that game, you had good matchups to do it.
Horford: We’re a little bit more of a half-court team this season. Last year we were running more. And I think we need to get out and run more and freelance more. Coach Drew is doing a good job, it’s just that sometimes we tend to get away from running more and the things we do best.
PF: When I hear players say that — that the team is not always doing what it should be doing on offense — I always wonder why that is. Is it because of the coach’s philosophy and play-calling, or are players breaking plays on the court and improvising? Some of both?
Horford: It’s both. A lot of times, we as players get caught up in saying, “Oh, we’ve got a mismatch!” But teams in this league are very good at positional defense. They’ll double-team you and front you and really disrupt that mismatch.
PF: You guys are playing a lot more zone defense this season. Do you feel it’s working? Do you like it?
Horford: It’s really different for us. We weren’t used to it at first. But it’s always good to mix it up on teams. Overall, it’s OK. I’d rather play man-to-man, though.
PF: You’ve got a pretty unique-looking jump shot, in terms of form. It obviously works, but it’s not textbook form. Your feet come apart and you almost tend to slide instead of jump, it looks like. Have coaches tried to change that form?
Horford: I’ve worked a lot with Mark Price, and he told me that it’s really all about footwork. But he did say that he wasn’t going to change my form. He wants me to use my legs a little bit more, and that seems to work for me.
As for my feet, the further the shot is from the hoop, the more I tend to be square. As I get closer to the rim, my right legs goes in front of my left leg a bit for some reason.
PF: You mentioned going further from the hoop. Any plans to add the three-point shot to your game?
Horford: Yeah, eventually. I have to put in the work, but it’ll be a part of my game I some point. I made a couple last season. [Note: Horford is 2-of-11 career from deep, with both makes coming last season — one in the regular season, one in the playoffs.)
Grandad
February 21st, 2011
11:29 pm
SteveW
LD is not going to play Teague or JC2
so, use those assets to find someone who will play
and contribute now.
Alot of times defense is “want to”.
If we get him, then it’s up to LD to provide the motivation.
Let’s just do something…anything…everyones movin’ and shakin’
but we stand still.
lewis
February 21st, 2011
11:29 pm
Hawks cannot beat the Bulls. Kurt Thomas owns us.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:33 pm
Lewis – I saw that earlier. The biggest flaw? After this West Coast road trip, we play 12 of 15 at home in March. That’s worth something.
But who could have seen LD as a guy who wouldn’t develop young talent? I sure didn’t see it coming.
And that SI writer is an idiot, I think. The Heat, Bulls, Lakers, Magic etc. are in alot worse cap space problems than we are.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:35 pm
Grandad – I sure understand that. I wish the Cavs would take Bibby and our two 2nd picks the next two years for Sessions. At least then we would have a good young BC with Sessions and Teague. Maybe LD would be forced to play them
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:36 pm
And in that trade, we would still have the Suns 2nd pick this year, and Houston’s next year, both of which figure to be better than ours.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:46 pm
Lewis – Thanks for the post. Good stuff.
2012-13 cap – For example – Miami has 65+ mill committed to 6 players: an aging DWade, a 33 year old (then) Mike Miller, a 32 year, undersized PF in Haslem, LeBron and Bosh.
We have 61+m committed to 7 players: a 31 year old super athlete JJ, a 27 year old Josh, 26 year olds Al and Marvin, 24 year olds JT and JC2, and a guy who turns 29 during the sesaon, ZaZa.
We’ve got more players, more cap space, younger players – Who’s in the worse cap position, us or the Heat?
The Bulls will have Boozer pulling down about 19m, Deng about 19m, Noah 12m, and who knows how much Rose will be making. Did that without looking, numbers may be off a bit. But they’re toast, and know it. They’re desp. trying to move Deng, so they can sign Rose. And watch Boozer get hurt, he does alot.
The Magic have Hedo on the hook for about 11m, and Arenas for 21m or so – that’s terrible.
We are in good cap space compared to the rest of the League.
Even the Knicks will have an aging, injured Amare, and Melo making 22m per, and he’s hurt alot.
Freshfromatl
February 21st, 2011
11:47 pm
I can almost guarantee there is going to be a trade involving the Hawks before the deadline. I don’t know how large the trade will be but I would be absolutly floored if the Hawks didn’t make a move.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:48 pm
I forgot the beast – Joel Anthony off the Heat above – they’re committed to mister 7.0 PER for 5 years as well.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 21st, 2011
11:50 pm
“His TS jumped from 51% to 54% to 57%, and his PER has jumped from 12.2 in 2006-2007 to 16.0 in 2008-2009. The guy seems to being making progress each and every season. ”
Unfortunately, he abruptly stopped progressing right after he signed that extension.
SteveW
February 22nd, 2011
12:05 am
Najeh – You are exactly correct
Najeh Davenpoop
February 22nd, 2011
12:10 am
Well, now that this trade is over, no more excuses. Time to make the Hawks better, Pretty Ricky.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 22nd, 2011
12:14 am
ESPN’s poll: “Which of these teams is the favorite to represent the East in the NBA Finals?”
The choices: Heat, Celtics, Bulls, Knicks, Magic
We like our core.
SteveW
February 22nd, 2011
12:19 am
I really think we are in be respectable now, wait for the Heat, Celts, Lakers, Knicks, Magic, and Bulls to collapse in the next couple of years, then make our move. That’s how we’re set up anyway.
But Tricky Ricky may surprise us.
J.J.M
February 22nd, 2011
12:28 am
trade for nuggets nene
Fussball Fan
February 22nd, 2011
12:40 am
Steve W., are you really serious?!!? Wait for the Heat, Celtics, Lakers, Knicks, Magic and Bulls to collapse!! ROFL!! These teams have something that the Hawks do not and have not ever had……aggressive and intelligent front offices. These teams/organizations are intent on getting to the Finals. The Hawks, umm, not so much. So again, let me get this straight, our only hope is to wait for 6 teams (5 of whom have made significant upgrades/moves over the year, while the Hawks “like their core”) to collapse. I have to thank you though, I had a real rough day, now you’ve made me end my day with slide splitting laughter. You should take your show on the road.
slimjr
February 22nd, 2011
12:40 am
“Spot on..the easiest schedule by far the first 2/3 of the season, and now the toughest…future opponents are at .550….here we go!”
Yes, the real Hawks will be revealed and it will not be pretty down the stretch! Down goes Frazier!
PREDICTION: AFTER THIS NEXT MELTDOWN, SUND AND JC1 WALK!!!!!! BOTH CONTRACTS ARE FINISHED…………….BYE RICK SUND, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED……………….
88hawksfan
February 22nd, 2011
12:40 am
In an unrelated story, when the Hakws played Charlotte the other say and I saw (ex-Hawks player) Jackson, I said, oh, oh, he could be trouble. There is always that player in every team that just kills the Hawks. What surprises me is that from the Hawks coach on down everyone seems surprised that Jackson had such a good game against the Hawks and hit the 3-point shot that sealed the loss for the Hawks in that game. Really? No one thought he would be the one to do the Hawks in? Mo defended as well as he could have defended and Jackson still made the shot. That’s why we should have forced the ball off his hands and let someone else beat us.
Rev in Tampa
February 22nd, 2011
3:51 am
Freshfromatl,
I understand your belief that a trade will happen before the deadline. With the Hawks weaknesses at center and point so glaring, the unbalance of the team, and the players who have become available in the aftermath the Melo-drama, it is only rational the Hawks would make a move. I felt the same logical imperative this summer when Shaq was available. The logic was irresistable, but nothing happened. If a trade occurs I think it will underwhelm us. We may pick up Sessions in exchange for some of our spare parts. But I am not holding my breath waiting on Sund to find a way to bring in Nene, Felton, etc. I think Big Ray was right when he observed that Sund is reactionary rather than proactive.
Rev in Tampa
February 22nd, 2011
4:04 am
A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has posted over the past several hours. The debate has been sustained at a much higher level than I can remember. It has been very enjoyable to read.
Thank god Rick Sund contract is expiring end of this season. He has over paid Bibby, Zaza, Joe, and Mervin and he has one of the worst draft picks for the last 10 years. The ASG has been trying to win, but they keep hiring the wrong Gms, the problem with
February 22nd, 2011
7:57 am
Enter your comments here
ryan
February 22nd, 2011
9:29 am
I saw on ESPN rumors that the Hawks are interested in Devin Harris i rather take Harris over Sessions .
W.R.Terrell
February 22nd, 2011
1:19 pm
Joe Johnson still an All-Star, but he had doubts. LOLOLOL…I have serious doubts also. Lets face it the Hawks gave away too much money for his kind of play and they will never reap the rewards because there are none. I see Devin Harris name is being mentioned and Ramon Sessions as a possible point guard replacement for Mike Bibby. They will have the same headaches, Josh the smoove” smith. Who thinks he’s Mr. everything will grab a rebound and bring it upcourt and anything the point was seeing is over and done with. Stop blaming Mike Bibby, he’s not your scape goat. Here’s an idea, how about some plain and simple basketball sense….ooops..I’m sorry THERE’S NONE!!!!
Samuel
February 22nd, 2011
5:12 pm
Horford: We’re a little bit more of a half-court team this season. Last year we were running more. And I think we need to get out and run more and freelance more. Coach Drew is doing a good job, it’s just that sometimes we tend to get away from running more and the things we do best.
You guys whined to no end about us running more under Woody. Everytime I hear an LD interview he’s talking about “controlling the tempo”/slowing the ball down. LD is full of sh_t.