Atlanta Hawks: Joe Johnson: ‘No excuses’
LOS ANGELES–Wadup, blog people. Busy day finally over so checking in from the Left Coast, where it’s chilly and rainy just like when the Hawks were here in January. What the hell do I have to do to get blue skies and warm sunshine? Yeah, I’m bitter.
Anyway, no real news for your Hawks reps at the All-Star media session today. Well, Al said he and Amar’e are good after all of their back-and-forth, which he thinks really isn’t news.
“We cool, man,” he said, laughing at the question. “I told you he was just trying to make a big deal out of nothing. I didn’t have to say anything [to him]. He knew he was in the wrong, so he was cool.”
Some interesting stuff from Joe, though. When media types asked him about the Hawks, he kept coming back to the same theme: “No excuses.”
“I think all of the excuses are out the door,” he said. “We can’t hang our hat on we are a young team anymore. We can’t still say it’s a new coach. It’s just put up or shut up.”
Which brings me to something I’ve been thinking about lately. Perhaps some of you saw the quotes from Rick Sund in Hoopsworld a couple weeks back. If you didn’t, no big deal, because you’ve seen these quotes before (though that part about the Hawks being analogous to the Spurs was new–and regrettable).
Sund basically just rattled off the list of the team’s accomplishments. I get a similar list whenever I talk to Sund and certain other people in the organization. They talk about improving the record for five consecutive seasons. They talk about the 14 straight winning months. They talk about being a young team. They talk about doing all of these things while operating below the luxury tax threshold (which is, in my view, justifiable for the market, though the allocation of those funds is open to questioning).
As the beat guy, I have a responsibility to be accurate and fair in my coverage of the team. I strive to give an accurate representation of the Hawks–their strengths and weaknesses, their successes and failures–and place it in the context of what is a fair expectation for the team. I have to figure out what is a reasonable standard by which to judge them, and then do so honestly and dispassionately.
Sometimes formulating that standard can a tough thing, but here’s the thing when it comes to the Hawks: I don’t have to do it. The Hawks already did it for me when they let Woody walk.
After all, Woody was the coach when the Hawks improved their record for five consecutive seasons. He was the coach for 10 of the 14-month winning streak. He coached a young team to the East semis two years in a row. He did all of this with a team with a payroll below the luxury-tax line.
That’s not meant to give Woody a pass. The point is, Woody’s not the coach anymore and that’s tactic tacit acknowledgment from Hawks management that it believes all those accomplishments they like to recite weren’t enough. Shoot, forget tactic tacit: Michael Gearon Jr., Sund, the players,and L.D. all have said they expect more this year after the surrender to the Magic last spring.
Maybe the Hawks don’t get enough credit for their recent accomplishments, especially since this franchise doesn’t have many better times in its past. But, again, they weren’t enough for Hawks brass, and they’ve said so. That’s why I just don’t see how it’s helpful for management to continue to cite those achievements as a defense against calls for change or as some kind of proof that they belong among Sund’s elite.
So when I chronicle the Hawks’ season, I do so with the understanding that their ultimate goal is the East finals (while considering mitigating factors like injuries). If those standards are uncomfortably high for the Hawks, it’s because they made it that way when they parted ways with Woody and then said they think this team should do more.
Once they did that, it’s like J.J. said today: All of the excuses are out the door.
Check back in with you later in the weekend, blog people.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
276 comments Add your comment
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
11:09 am
Note how the players and coaches never mention WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP as a goal for this team. It’s always “we know what we can do” or “we have goals” even though we never actually hear them. I’ve never heard anyone on this team mention winning a title
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:14 am
KevinM – Here’s why I say that. Let’s suppose we don’t make a trade. In that 2012-13 season:
JJ will be 31. Not old for a SG of JJ’s athleticism and build. He’s probably still an All Star. I don’t see another Eastern Conf. SG taking his place anytime soon. Ray Allen was and Eastern Conf All Star at 35 this season, and Stephen Jackson at 32 was arguably the 4th best.
Josh Smith will be 27
Al Horford will be 26
Marvin will be 26
Teague will be in his 4th season, and should be developing very nicely by then. And he’ll only be 24.
JC2 will be in his 3rd season, and only be 24.
ZaZa will be 28 and turn 29 on Feb 10th that season.
We will have 7 guys either at their prime, or near their prime. They will have played together for a very long time. They should have tons of playoff experience by then. And notice I didn’t say they would be in the Finals, I just said don’t be surprised.
And Josh and ZaZa will be in contract years, so they’ll probably play their tails off.
And when you match that team up in 2012-13 with the Heat, who will have LeBron – the Greatest ball player I have ever seen. But does he have playoff heart?
Chris Bosh, who will turn 29 during the season. Can his thin frame hold up?
DWade – Who will turn 31 Jan 17th of that season. His game is speed and athleticism. He will be slowing down by then. Great player, and has a champions heart, no doubt.
Mike Miller will turn 33 Feb 19th of that season. He’s already in decline
Udonis will be an undersized PF who will be 32, and probably breaking down. See Etan Thomas.
And Joel Anthony will be Joel Anthony, only he’ll be a 30 year old undersized C with a current PER of 7.0.
I think the Hawks, barring injuries and trades, will match up very well with the Heat. Both teams will have to have picks, Dleaguers and vet minimum guys to fill out the roster, because they both have little cap space.
But the Hawks have alot more cap space than the Heat will have then.
The Heat have 65.7m committed to those 6 guys in 2012-13.
The Hawks will have about 62.15m committed to those 7 players then.
And the Hawks will have 1st picks the next 2 seasons (unless ASG sells them!!!), and the Heat have none.
And the Hawks may have a decent Defensive guy in Sy, who will be 24 then, on the cheap. And he will have some experience also, if he pans out.
The Hawks are in better shape going forward, barring injury etc. than Heat. Plain and simple.
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
11:22 am
WHY IS THERE ONLY TALK ABOUT GETTING SWEPT LAST YEAR? HOW ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO? WE DID NOTHING THESE LAST 2 YEARS. WE GOT SWEPT IN THE 2ND ROUND 2 YEARS IN A ROW
WHY DO WE STILL HAVE THIS SAME CORE?
SUND HAS SPENT 31 YEARS IN THIS LEAGUE STEALING PAYCHECKS AND FRAUDING THESE FRANCHISES OUT OF MONEY. WORST GM IN SPORTS HISTORY
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:24 am
KevinM – The Lakers and C’s Championships, and the Magic’s commitment to one, is not the capologist. That is ownership. And I agree and Arthur Blank, Mark Cuban type would sure look good in Hawks Red and White. But maybe ASG will……well, we can hope can’t we?
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:31 am
KevinM – And you know who it wouldn’t surprise me to see jump over the Thunder in the West (besides the Grizzlies, depending on their moves)? The Clippers. Eric Gordon and Blake Griffin are the closest thing to Westbrook/Durant among the young guns. And if Bledsoe and Jordan develop, and maybe a Chris Kaman in the mix, well, your talking about a team there.
And in the East, if the Nets don’t do this Carmelo thing, they’ve got Lopez and Favors down low, with 5 first picks including some lottery the next 2 seasons. They could easily make some noise also.
And John Wall will be an All Star next year, but not much supporting cast in DC
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:32 am
The Nets also have a free wheeling Russian billioniare at the helm also, along with a rap star…
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
11:34 am
SteveW, the Hawks have already publicly stated that the cap limit is alive and will be the standard…Sund has said the San Antonio/Detroit model is the way…well, we don’t have Duncan/Parker/Ginobli….
And Jarrett Jack is in a bit of trouble isn’t he? Doesn’t bode well going forward for his image….the ASG is not bringing in guys who have issues off the court.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
11:48 am
KevinM – I know, and with the new CBA, the word on the street is hard cap of 70m, with teams having 3-5 years to attain it. and that’s another reason I say the Heat are in trouble going forward. No 1st picks, 65.7m committed to 6 players in a couple of years, and 3 of those players at least having issues by then. Not good.
And Jarrett Jack is Jeff Teague’s off season work out mentor hear in the ATL. Hmmm, maybe that’s why LD won’t play JT.
JoJo the Godfather
February 21st, 2011
11:53 am
One of my biggest beefs with Sund: we have Bibby, Teague, Joe, Jamal, Jordan & Mo Evans that can all play the guard positions. So, who are our “stashed” players / 2nd round picks: three guards!!! Akyol, Gladyr & Sy.
That’s 9 guards that we hold the rights to, and only one of them is capable of playing offense & defense.
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
An excellent SI review of the Hawks and their trade discussions so far only involve Marvin:
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/02/21/monday-musings-hawks-impending-fall/…..
“A first-round loss and, say, 48 wins would be a huge step back for a franchise that has talked about movign forward in its development.”
Spot on..the easiest schedule by far the first 2/3 of the season, and now the toughest…future opponents are at .550….here we go!
So moving Marvin would be the missing transaction that moves this team to playoff contender? The Hawks are doomed to just compete because of Gearon’s and Sund’s blindness.
You know what’s funny? Prokorov doesn’t use a computer either…now he and Sund have something in common.
drmaryb (*_*)
February 21st, 2011
12:37 pm
* Egypt … You can find The Nile River there.
(sorry, brain-fart.)
O'Brien
February 21st, 2011
12:45 pm
Steve W,
7 years in the league, and Josh Smith is still an enigma. A very talented player, but still lacks consistency, still whines to the refs too much, does not always bring it on the defensive end (despite his talents), and his shot selection is still an issue. What will change in 2 years?
ZaZa is not playing well right now (and did not play well last year), so why do you think he will be better in 2 years?
Marvins playing better this season, but 6 years in the league, and we still dont know what to expect from him night in and night out. And he seems to miss 20 games every other season (18 in ‘06, 21 in ‘08, and 17 so far this season). Why will he be better in 2 years?
I havent seen enough from Teague to know what to expect from him.
I agree that JJ and Al should still be playing at a high level then, and I think JC2 will be very good off the bench. But other than those 3, I ‘m not sure about any of the other players.
And regardless of how good the Hawks capologist might be, we also need a good GM. And a guy who gives Bibby 3 years, $18 mil, and Marvin 5 years, $37.5 mil…I’m not impressed.
O'Brien
February 21st, 2011
12:57 pm
KevinM,
That si article had some interesting points. As a fan, I know we get caught up in the game, so its always good to look at the numbers.
Only four teams get to the line less often, per shot attempt, and the Hawks’ offensive rebounding — once a key strength — has vanished.
They still isolate too much, and they fare poorly when they do; only six teams score fewer points per possession on isolation plays, according to the stat-tracking service Synergy Sports.
They still don’t use Al Horford enough, and they still take far too many long two-point jumpers; only the Wizards, Heat and Bulls attempt more, according to Hoopdata. Atlanta is an efficient transition team, but it continues to play at one of the slowest paces in the league..
Yikes…
drmaryb (*_*)
February 21st, 2011
1:05 pm
Senator John McCain doesn’t have a computer either. While his opponent was setting a “Trail Blaze” through the NE.
The only WMD going on there was “Dropping Emails over Baghdad”
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
February 21st, 2011
2:03 pm
only the great Rick Sund can see the light waiting for the core at the end of the tunnel…too bad its a train heading right at him.
ROFL
doc
February 21st, 2011
2:07 pm
or dmb you can always insert ganges for india the next time.
even though he costs 2 mil more, i wish we had gortat for zaza. has anyone noticed what he is posting in phoenix now? he may be a true financial steal in the nba as 7 ft starter. anyway to trade marvin for him and maybe get a player on the side?
that is what we have to begin doing as an organization, finding something in the cracks rather than off the near retired heap pile even though the league pays what, half the salary? million pinching millionaires that askg bunch. man i despise the likes. heh heh got some millionaire change back hiring LD, too, didnt they?
Rufus1
February 21st, 2011
2:08 pm
Very close to Elite….
Everytime I read an article giving data stating the Hawks are not Elite, it reminds me how close the Hawks are to being Elite.
“They still don’t use Al Horford enough, and they still take far too many long two-point jumpers; only the Wizards, Heat and Bulls attempt more,”
The Bulls and the Heat have some of the best finishers at the rim in the game….The Hawks have none. So why are they taking so many long Jumpers?
“The Hawks are 3 and 4 against the top 4 teams in the east”..Bleacher Report
Only Boston has a winning record against the east elite.
The Hawks have the WORST PG situation in the NBA, but we have won 34 games and have one of the best road record in the League.(17 wins)
We can’t or We don’t is all I hear from the local and national media. The “core” sucks, Marvin sucks, Joe suck, Bibby sucks, josh sucks and Al sucks, but we keep wininng….BECAUSE WE ARE GOOD.
We have won against Miami and we beat the Magic twice.
If Bibby was the PG for the Bulls, they might be a .500% team…..That tells me all we need is a .500 PG to move into elite status(sessions), anything more(Aaron Brooks) the sky is the limit.
I agree we won’t win the east with Bibby playing more the 20min a night and Jamal at the PG, but imagine how valuable Bibby and Jamal would be with a real PG… Creating easy open shots for a team that has won doing it the “HARD WAY”….I DARE TO DREAM.
I believe Sund will make a small trade, because he thinks we are very close and I agree with him….
Go Hawks
cp
February 21st, 2011
2:38 pm
I wasn’t a big fan of BK but I would take him over Sund. I would be shocked if Sund/Gearon made a move that would improve this team.
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
3:14 pm
Rufus, you have to tell me who you think is key for us on defense?
Larry is still sending out JC1 and Bibster for the 4th quarter, so that tells me we don’t have much choice. While they are supposed to be stronger on offense, we couldn’t cut into the Knicks’ lead at all. Larry quit on his team in that game and had no plan despite Bibster getting jammed on the predictable pick and rolls the Knicks run.
We are not close; you should not be stating that. We have no idea how to win a playoff series against a higher ranked opponent. If our jumpers fall, and it has to be a bunch of them, we are in the game. We have no other fallbacks.
You think Josh is going to stop shooting that 25 footer? You think Bibster will ever get between him and his PG opponent heading to the basket? The jig is up; the league knows how to beat the Hawks more often than not.
A small deal from our thinkmeister Sund won’t do the job. Its not Marvin that is holding this team back from contending in the playoffs.
Bibby is not marketable, and I would be surprised to hear that Zaza or even Teague at this point is marketable. Collins, Thomas, Mo…..they don’t fit into an opposing uniform after this season.
As much as I want to see them steadily improving, and I wouldn’t even mind being wrong in seeing Larry succeed, I just don’t have that level of comfort knowing that this team takes every game, much less every possession seriously. Let me when you see these guys doling out all their efforts to win a ball game.
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
3:17 pm
So now the Nets are going to work ‘with’ Denver and help the Knicks get Melo? Can this one get any more bizarre?
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211188/Nets_Nuggets_Discuss_Trade_Involving_Knicks_Players
The Truth
February 21st, 2011
3:42 pm
Marvin being a punching bag is nothing new on this blog but lets be clear, Zaza should be the real outrage. There is a big difference between under performing and outrageously sucking. While Marvin may have not reached expectations for a variety of reasons, Zaza has been plain sucking for no reason. If the rational for resigning him was based on his age and growth projection, they clearly got hoodwinked because at 27 yrs old he has been on a decline for the last 3-years. His 14 MPG is killing us on defense not to mention his subpar offense. He is ranked 146 out of 219 in efficiency in the NBA so to say he sucks is no exaggeration. His negative impact is one big reason the Hawks are struggling this year. Last year, he stunk just as badly but “The Difference” Jamal was balling so well, it covered-up Zaza’s negatives. This year Jamal isn’t balling at the same level so Zaza negative impact is all so glaring. When he digs us into those familiar holes, Jamal isn’t bailing us out as last year. Zaza might (by himself) be the straw that is breaking the camel’s back since he is always the first big off the bench. In hindsight, the Hawks might have been better off letting Zaza walk and signing a top d-leaguer and gotten better production compared to him, (no joke).
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
February 21st, 2011
5:44 pm
The Truth I agree.
“No excuses” is the theme of the players this 2nd half.
There is NO EXCUSE if Horford does not get 17 shot attempts per game this 2nd half.
There is NO EXCUSE Teague should not get 20 minutes per game.
There is NO EXCUSE that if Drew believes Teague does not have it, someone he believes can supplant Bibby is not acquired before the deadline.
There is NO EXCUSE to play JC1 at pg when its negatively effecting his game and the homogeneity of the team – development of our future pg.
There is NO EXCUSE for J Smoove to stay camped out on the 3 point line all game long – Dominique was a small forward and drove to the rack (spin move) or played in the post more
Josh Smith ≠ RAY ALLEN
There is NO! I repeat NO EXCUSE!!! For The Hawks to get blown out at home to anyone again this year!
drmaryb (*_*)
February 21st, 2011
6:18 pm
All The No Excuses in the world, will not cover up the fact that there is, No PG.
Ethan
February 21st, 2011
8:29 pm
Amen. The hardest part about the Hawks are that (from top to bottom) they are okay with being average. Talk about underachievers. Horford, Smith and Johnson? Three years ago that was sick to look at on paper. But our greatest players arent leading the team.
Horford – He plays harder than anyone. But Al still isnt vocal enough. He doesnt demand more from the team. Hes Mr. Nice Guy.
Jsmoove – His raw talent outweighs anyone on the team. But emotionally he’s a child. Not to mention he cant leave dribbling up the court or shooting 3-pointers to Bibby. Selfish is an understatement. And he wonders why he isnt an All-Star.
Joe Johnson – Ive seen deaf mutes talk more than Joe Johnson. If he had an ounce of aggressive in him Id say we’re going to the Finals. More inconsistent than old peoples bowel movements. He just acts like another guy on the team. And he is…minus getting paid $120 million.
Larry Drew – I like Larry Drew as a person. I even like his talk…if he backed it up. If the lineup is the same against the Lakers Ill know L.D. was really just B.S. He talks about all these things that need to change and does nothing to change them. I also question his personnel decisions. I don’t know what hes seeing but its not working. He puts some atrocious lineups out on the court.
If one person who could make a difference in the Hawks organization would grow a pair and DO what needs to be done, we’d be rocking. But instead, we are average. Great core, average coaching, bad bench. 5 seed…gone in the first round. Again.
slimjr
February 22nd, 2011
12:36 am
“Spot on..the easiest schedule by far the first 2/3 of the season, and now the toughest…future opponents are at .550….here we go!”
Yes, the real Hawks will be revealed and it will not be pretty down the stretch! Down goes Frazier!
One
February 22nd, 2011
7:09 am
We won’t be having this PG problem if we drafted Paul or Dwill in the first place, instead of Marvin. That pick will always haunt them. (Now its moving Marvin thats a problem) I hope they can pull off something good. (But i doubt it, with Sund still up there)