Atlanta Hawks: Joe Johnson: ‘No excuses’
LOS ANGELES–Wadup, blog people. Busy day finally over so checking in from the Left Coast, where it’s chilly and rainy just like when the Hawks were here in January. What the hell do I have to do to get blue skies and warm sunshine? Yeah, I’m bitter.
Anyway, no real news for your Hawks reps at the All-Star media session today. Well, Al said he and Amar’e are good after all of their back-and-forth, which he thinks really isn’t news.
“We cool, man,” he said, laughing at the question. “I told you he was just trying to make a big deal out of nothing. I didn’t have to say anything [to him]. He knew he was in the wrong, so he was cool.”
Some interesting stuff from Joe, though. When media types asked him about the Hawks, he kept coming back to the same theme: “No excuses.”
“I think all of the excuses are out the door,” he said. “We can’t hang our hat on we are a young team anymore. We can’t still say it’s a new coach. It’s just put up or shut up.”
Which brings me to something I’ve been thinking about lately. Perhaps some of you saw the quotes from Rick Sund in Hoopsworld a couple weeks back. If you didn’t, no big deal, because you’ve seen these quotes before (though that part about the Hawks being analogous to the Spurs was new–and regrettable).
Sund basically just rattled off the list of the team’s accomplishments. I get a similar list whenever I talk to Sund and certain other people in the organization. They talk about improving the record for five consecutive seasons. They talk about the 14 straight winning months. They talk about being a young team. They talk about doing all of these things while operating below the luxury tax threshold (which is, in my view, justifiable for the market, though the allocation of those funds is open to questioning).
As the beat guy, I have a responsibility to be accurate and fair in my coverage of the team. I strive to give an accurate representation of the Hawks–their strengths and weaknesses, their successes and failures–and place it in the context of what is a fair expectation for the team. I have to figure out what is a reasonable standard by which to judge them, and then do so honestly and dispassionately.
Sometimes formulating that standard can a tough thing, but here’s the thing when it comes to the Hawks: I don’t have to do it. The Hawks already did it for me when they let Woody walk.
After all, Woody was the coach when the Hawks improved their record for five consecutive seasons. He was the coach for 10 of the 14-month winning streak. He coached a young team to the East semis two years in a row. He did all of this with a team with a payroll below the luxury-tax line.
That’s not meant to give Woody a pass. The point is, Woody’s not the coach anymore and that’s tactic tacit acknowledgment from Hawks management that it believes all those accomplishments they like to recite weren’t enough. Shoot, forget tactic tacit: Michael Gearon Jr., Sund, the players,and L.D. all have said they expect more this year after the surrender to the Magic last spring.
Maybe the Hawks don’t get enough credit for their recent accomplishments, especially since this franchise doesn’t have many better times in its past. But, again, they weren’t enough for Hawks brass, and they’ve said so. That’s why I just don’t see how it’s helpful for management to continue to cite those achievements as a defense against calls for change or as some kind of proof that they belong among Sund’s elite.
So when I chronicle the Hawks’ season, I do so with the understanding that their ultimate goal is the East finals (while considering mitigating factors like injuries). If those standards are uncomfortably high for the Hawks, it’s because they made it that way when they parted ways with Woody and then said they think this team should do more.
Once they did that, it’s like J.J. said today: All of the excuses are out the door.
Check back in with you later in the weekend, blog people.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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276 comments Add your comment
Booo!
February 20th, 2011
10:37 pm
4-team deal. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6fohcbf
Hawks get R.Sessions, C.Kaman, and A.Igoudala
Clippers get Zaza, Marvin, and Bibby
Sixers get Jamal, Etan, Ryan Gomes, and Anthony Parker
Cavs get Mo Evans and Lou Williams
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
10:39 pm
Not to ever wish that anybody gets hurt during an All-Star game, but Wade’s injury could lead to more PT for JJ in this game. Hopefully he’ll take advantage of it by knocking down more open shots..
Right on cue.
Keep knocking them down JJ.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
10:41 pm
Yeah, I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him in on a minimum salary. He can’t be worse than Powell or Zaza.
Joe is going to get some minutes in this 2nd half now that Wade has tweaked his ankle. I have a feeling he was about to get the Jeff Teague treatment otherwise.
Ra'mon
February 20th, 2011
10:47 pm
Is it me, or is Joe routinely open with this lineup, yet no one from Boston ever passes it to him? The only time Joe has touched the ball is when he got two rebounds.
bigdave
February 20th, 2011
10:54 pm
i hope Josh can get in next year. his play is built for ASG’s
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
11:15 pm
LOOK at JJ . . ripping Kobe and getting the and 1 . . . playing great D on Kobe too.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
11:21 pm
Joe and Al currently lead the East in plus-minus rating.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
11:21 pm
JJ the only good man defender on the floor . . and it showed on those Durant back to back shots.
bigdave
February 20th, 2011
11:26 pm
Smoove woulda hit the three..
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
11:28 pm
Damn Heat gunners. LOL @ Bosh taking that 3.
Good job JJ. You defensively slowed Kobe down enough to get the East back into the game. Funny that when this game ends, JJ and Horford will be in the positive in the plus/minus ratio.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
11:31 pm
haha @ bigdave
As much as I don’t like him taking that shot, he DEFINITELY would’ve hit that 3. Josh seems to always hit the big 3 toward the end of a game ( usually when the Hawks are ahead ).
Ease could’ve used Josh’s open court shot blocking ability. And he definitely would’ve been hustling toward the end of that game defensively.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
11:33 pm
Ease = East
W.R. Terrell
February 20th, 2011
11:39 pm
I just finished watching the Allstar game which signals the start of the 2nd half of the regular season. The Atlanta “SOFTS” or Hawks play the Lakers tuesday evening. If we lose by 20 that will be a blessing and if we win then miracles do happen. This is where we head downhill because every team out there wll be playing for real except us. We will probably have a few highlights an some dunks but that’s about it. I really hope the youngsters get a chance to develop for next year. I’ll be back tuesday with a Hope and a prayer.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
11:55 pm
Haha I thought the same thing. Smoove would have knocked that down. Kinda messed up that the Hawk whose game is best suited for a fast break, exhibition style format hasn’t yet gotten a chance to play in this game. I’ve always wondered what Smoove would look like with a real point guard.
Ra'mon
February 21st, 2011
12:00 am
No one will say this but Joe’s defense on Kobe was what allowed the East to make a run at the end. He literally shut him down.
lewis
February 21st, 2011
12:02 am
Yeah, when Al was in with Rondo, i said to my buddy, stop, I need to see this, Al playing with a real point guard.
bigdave
February 21st, 2011
12:18 am
Joe defends
Kobe.. Wade.. and Lebron extremely well..
he struggles w/ Paul.. and Vince Carter torches him.
bigdave
February 21st, 2011
12:20 am
Al’s game was exposed. cant create his own offense. especially w/ a crowded lane. i think he was in w/ the wrong group of guys. who didnt necessarily stretch the defense ..
MsDee
February 21st, 2011
12:40 am
Last All-Star, Horford out shined Joe but this season, Joe out shined Horford. For some reason, Horford just looked out of place. Everytime Horford set a nice pick and roll for Rondo or Rose, the PG would turn the ball over. I felt bad for my boy but all in all, both guys represented well with positive +/- ratio!!
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
12:49 am
About that Clippers trade – We would be getting either Gomes or Smith to trade with someone else to the Cavs for Sessions. We have 15 players already, so we couldn’t trade Marvin for Gomes and Smith, somebody would have to get cut. And since ASG ain’t going into luxury tax, that’s unlikely.
So Smith or Gomes would go with ? to the Cavs for Sessions I would assume.
If that trade or any trade materializes, which I doubt.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
1:05 am
If that Clips/Hawks/Cavs trade went thru – I would assume we would trade Smith, and he has to give his consent to be traded, and either Teague/Mo’/JC2 and a 2nd pick for Sessions.
That would basically mean the trade was Marvin and JC2? for Sessions and Gomes. Would we then start Mo’ or Wilkens at 3? Or go big all of the time?
That trade would keep up under the luxury tax line for the next 3 years or so. If we could keep Sessions and Teague….
Man, wish somebody would take Bibby off our hands if we did that. Bibby and a 1st pick should get you…..BJ Mullen? I doubt it. Just like I doubt any of these trades will ever happen.
sam'l
February 21st, 2011
3:23 am
““Okay, okay bring back Woody. Sorry I got him fired.”
____________________
As, if you could?”
As if I could WHAT, bring him back or get him fired?
For people who need even the simplest things spelled out, and this includes MaryB apparently, here goes………….
People who have eyes and can see but can’t think are having a great time on the blog. That’s fine, but you’re not helping, and the suggestions get crazier and crazier. If you want Woody so much, get him back, fine with me. Your suggestions are old and out of line and don’t do anyone any good.
It is becoming clearer and clearer to anyone with sense that the Hawks need some brains, both in the front office and the coaching department and unfortunately out on the court.
Hey, if you think Woody fills the bill, bring him back……..
I personally don’t and remember his look of dumbfounded confusion as the symbol of a Hawks team that could easily have gone all the way.
Sorry, I want a winner. The blog is fun but the repeated lack of common sense from certain egomaniacs with foul language and blatantly racist comments is wearing a little thin. Being a blogger doesn’t automatically make you a great communicator.
.
O'Brien
February 21st, 2011
7:14 am
Rick Sund has officially put the onus on the players. And I think the players can play better and play more consistently. However, Rick needs to realize that the roster he put together is flawed.
Said Rick: “The next two months and our performance in the playoffs will indicate as to exactly what this team is. The challenge is up to them.”
And this: “We’ve put ourselves in position to do something, so let’s see where it goes. We have to do it collectively and with chemistry and coaching and all that.”
Sund again: “I think our players feel like they can play with anybody. It’s the first time in the last two years I’ve sensed that.”.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/02/20/hawks-sund-puts-onus-on-players-challenge-is-up-to-them/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog/
I’m not sure how a team that can play with anybody lose games by 23, 34 and 41 (with 2 of those games coming at home), but such is the Hawks.
One thing I didnt know until I saw it in Jeff Schultz’ article; As a team, the Hawks have the second-fewest steals (5.9) and are forcing the second-fewest turnovers (12.7) per game. .
I think that starts with the PG on defense…who happens to rank 25th among PG at 3.7 assists per game. Good thing his scoring offsets his defense. Oh wait, he is only averaging 9.6 ppg.
dmr
February 21st, 2011
7:27 am
SIX YEARS….$123.7 Million dollars! Michael Gearon loves to tell fans they don’t understand. Well, fans knew this contract was a massive overreach before Johnson signed it. Fans knew when the Hawks needed a point guard and a center and the best available in the draft was Chris Paul and the Hawks whiffed…the fans knew.
The ASG is the worst thing to happen to Atlanta sports since the Smith family. Maybe someone out there will buy these clowns out. Until that time…mediocrity is the BEST you can HOPE for.
JoJo the Godfather
February 21st, 2011
7:28 am
I would not be surprised if Josh Powell winds up staying behind in LA after Tuesday’s game…A future second rounder, or even better, one of Caracter or Ebanks would get it done…The issue with LD a couple weeks back, the Lakers needing another big since Ratliff is out, the Hawks & Lakers scheduled to play right before the deadline, Sund traveling with the team, and the Hawks needing to save some money, all point to a deal getting done.
drmaryb (*_*)
February 21st, 2011
8:31 am
sam’l
“Okay, okay bring back Woody. Sorry I got him fired.”
____________________
February 21st, 2011
3:23 am
As, if you could?”
As if I could WHAT, bring him back or get him fired?”
________________
Either.
drmaryb (*_*)
February 21st, 2011
8:44 am
Denial!
O’Brien,
Based on the excerpt of those comments you posted of Gearon, JR:
The Nile is not a river that runs through India. It runs briskly through the
ASKG corporate offices.
____________________
Aye Gearon! JR, Sir, you got needs. Don’t just blame it on the coaches and players. Granted, they can all perform better as well.
2 PF’s and 2 SG’s does not constitute any balance whatsoever.
Now run along and go get yourself a PG and a Center.
drmaryb (*_*)
February 21st, 2011
8:46 am
* insert Sund and delete Gearon, JR.
Geemack
February 21st, 2011
9:12 am
So if the Hawk finish 4th or 5th and plays Orlando in the 1st round and lose is that an improvement from last year? If not would that warrant a roster shake up?
O'Brien
February 21st, 2011
9:43 am
Geemack,
That is an interesting question. Last year, we got swept by Orlando, losing by 101 points combined.
If we play them in the first round this year, and we lose 4-3, is that an improvement over last year?
On one hand: Yes, because we did not get swept, and we beat them 3 times.
On the other hand: No, because we lost in the first round.
And I do think we will play Orlando in the first round. As long as we lose in the first round, I think a shakeup is in order.
O'Brien
February 21st, 2011
9:47 am
Monty Williams is going well as the new coach of the Hornets. Thibodeau is doing well as the new coach of the Bulls. And I think the biggest reason is because of their PG play. We are not getting enough from our PG.
I’m not putting it all on Bibby, because he is probably giving it all he has. I’m putting the onus on Rick and LD for not finding a way to upgrade the PG position.
I was hoping Hawks would have hired (or at least interviewed) Thibodeau, because his Bulls team is top 5 in defense, despite missing Noah, and Boozer, and its not like Kyle Korver, Luol Deng, and Rose were ever known for their defense either. I dont know how he is doing it, but we could have used his defensive expertise.
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
9:49 am
The Hawks are the only team in the East who stood pat and let everyone else add/delete. A total failure this past summer. We gave our best player a HUGE raise, we play a PG who can’t start for anyone, we refuse to develop the our latest draft pick, and we leave our 6MOY in limbo for the offseason. Why? Because Sund doesn’t like to deal during the season…he told you that..now he comes out and talks a big game about holding the players accountable? The same group he was told about that floundered around last playoffs…because you know he wasn’t watching.
It is embarassing to consider him a mid range good GM. He has not improved the future of this team. He and his puppetmaster have no idea who is a basketball expert….that part is obvious. These guys don’t excel in marketing either….”come see the same stale product we have put out there the last 2 years who fail to step up and be consistent”.
That’s what’s funny about Joe and Al’s consistent comment: this core has been together long enough to get a pension and yet they still can’t play consistently well together….Joe and Al, listen up, you have no idea what team will show up night in, night out. Your leadership skills are in question just as much as the core players who can’t figure each other out.
Well, congrats on the AS notifications, and its on to LA for the remaining 1/3 of the season….at this point, there is no significant move that Sund could make to be a difference maker…his Marvin rumor is only to shed more salary…Marvin is playing for other team’s interest now. I wish we could get Bibster to do that!
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
10:01 am
A trip to the second round would be an upset at this point. The Hawks have to beat the Magic in Round 1 to get there. They have put themselves in a bad position as Sund and Gearon let 2 teams pass up right by when we could have made a significant move to help us come playoff time.
Remember when Miami brought in Shaq? They gave up 4 pieces, pieces that not necessarily played bad together….they lost the previous year in the 2nd round 4-2 to Indiana after beating the Hornets 4-3 in Round 1. They gave up Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, and a 1st rounder.
They brought in Shaq, who averaged 21/11 in the playoffs the previous year.
Riley said it was to bring Miami a championship. Van Gundy as coach, Rafer Alston as PG, and a young DWade.
Now why couldn’t the Hawks do something like this for an elite player?
It is nothing but excuses from Gearon and Sund. They simply don’t know how to build a championship team.
These moves are doable, but you can’t if you overvalue your current roster….and Sund is doing just that…..prime Bibby…give me a break!
The one guy I would like to build around from last night’s ASG? Deron Williams…..the one guy who could be available in the near future if Utah cannot get back on track. Offer them a Jersey/Melo type deal to get it done.
But you’re gonna have to get us another head coach as well. Larry won’t be earning anyone’s respect after this season.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
10:27 am
KevinM – I never said the Celts, Lakers, Bulls etc were in better shape going forward than the Heat. The Celts and Lakers are toast max after next season – both too old. And Lion hearted DWade will not be playing great basketball at 35 – count on it. His style of BB is not conducive to a long career. The All Star game showed that last night. And Mike Miller is already on the downhill slope. Udonis is to small and getting to old to bang down low on a regular basis. And Joel Anthony is well, Joel Anthony.
Miami is caught in a perfect storm. Big 3, terrible 3 contracts after that with Miller, Udonis and Anthony, and a C’s team the match up terrible with, especially in the post season blood baths. If the C’s are healthy, no way Miami beats them this year or next.
And after that Dwade, Miller, and Udonis fall apart, and they have no cap space or 1st picks to save the day. No 1st picks until 2014.
Now I expect Miami to go 77-5 or something crazy next season. It will be their best. But i don’t think they can make it past the C’s then either. Garnett, Oneil, Oneal, Big Baby, and Kendrick will dominate Z, Dampier, Magliore, and Bosh inside. And Rondo and Nate will run rampant outside. Pierce and Allen can at least slow Wade and LeBron down, esp. Peirce. If the C’s are healthy, Miami never wins a championship
vava74
February 21st, 2011
10:28 am
“The Nile is not a river that runs through India” WTF ???
Am I missing anything? Nile in India? Is this a joke that I am not aware of?
slimjr
February 21st, 2011
10:32 am
“Sund again: “I think our players feel like they can play with anybody. It’s the first time in the last two years I’ve sensed that.”.
RICK SUND you Sir may need to commit yourself!!!! Even you don’t believe that sh*t coming out of your butt hole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lose by 41 at home to New Orleans,Get blown out by stinking Detroit by 23, lose by over 30 at home to Philly….You Sir are a sad Joke………………..
Ask yourself this, do you really believe your squad can beat the 8 teams with better records in the NBA in a 7 game playoff series?? For once be honest with yourself…………………
Sund= major fail… The Beat down is coming…
Up next the Lakers and then Phoenix on the road. Can you spell massacre?
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
10:34 am
And Boozer and Amare will get hurt probably, and weigh down their teams starting next season. The Bulls can’t afford Deng, Boozer, Noah, and Rose. Reisendorff is a cheapskate.
And the NY Press is already on D’Antoni, howling he’s playing Amare to much, and his surgically repaired knees are gone in 3-4 years max, D’Antoni is coaching for his next job etc.
As crazy as it sounds, whoever the Hawks capologist is is very good. The Hawks are in great shape moving forward. Don’t be surprised in 2013 if it’s not the Hawks and Thunder in the Finals, and if the Griz’s can keep Randolph, and get quality for Mayo, don’t be surprised if they’re not in the conversation also.
slimjr
February 21st, 2011
10:36 am
Sund=Got pictures..Who is this buster?? 31+ years and one nam nothing……
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
10:38 am
KevinM – But now would I rather have Pat Riley as my GM rather than Rick Sund? Yes, in a heartbeat.
And are DWade and Udonis Haslem 2 of the great all time hustle players? Yes, on both counts
Does LeBron have the guts to take this team to a championship? I doubt it, until he shows me different.
I MUS WRITE
February 21st, 2011
10:40 am
Leeny Kravit and his band was the highlight for me last night. That was some serious guitar playing- the guy w/h the bushy hair is one of the best ive heard outside of Slash and The legend-JIMI HENDRIX. O yeah the game was okay
We need a PG C and new owners…………… 1st round exit on the horizon theres nothing to see here folks keep it moving. LD has ugly suits and Ty Hill is just ugly. Wake me when a trade is made or Boston plays Chicago in the playoffs.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
10:41 am
KevinM – Cosign DeRon Williams comment
slimjr
February 21st, 2011
10:41 am
9-12 against the winners so far, but its going to get worse…Oh yea your team can play with anybody???? It’s not funny Sund……………….
slimjr
February 21st, 2011
10:46 am
25th worst defense spells disaster SUND the delusional GM…..
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
10:49 am
That Marvin to the Clips for Gomes, Smith, and a 2nd pick is an interesting rumor. Especially since we have 15 players (the max), so another trade would be on the horizon most likely.
Looking at the cap, I would say we would then send Smith and JC2 to the Cavs for Sessions. The Hawks would be in great cap position with that move. Who knows, we may even trade the Clips and Suns 2nd picks for the Heats 1st pick the Cavs own in 2012 or something. Who knows.
But again, I’m highly skeptical of any trade occurring involving the Hawks.
O-Brien – If we do get Gomes/Smith, I did think that would be LD’s comeuppance to Josh Powell. But as far as Powell to the Lakers goes, I think Phil has seen enough of Josh Powell. In advanced statistics, it showed Powell was one of the worst players in the NBA. Phil gave Powell every opportunity with Odom, Gasol, and Bynum hurt last season, and Powell kept bombing the chance.
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
10:49 am
Worst starting PG in the NBA and there is a handful of team with 2nd and 3rd PGs FAR better than Bibby
Our coach plays Bibby HUGE minutes even against backup PGs
No Center
Josh Smith who tries half the time
Joe who goes to sleep half the time
Jamal who doesn’t show up half the time.
Great team, Sund!
The guy has made 1 move of any significance in 3 years with this team. Wow
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
10:51 am
SteveW, your argument for the Hawks in the Finals is far-fetched…you gotta back that statment up….you gotta tell me what you see on this roster or on this managment team that tells you the Hawks will even compete in 2-3 years.
We have no PG, we have no C, we have no bench once JC1 is gone this year…..our draft picks are currently bottom level of the 1st round.
What do you know that I don’t see here?
slim….you’re predicting a Lakers/Suns double blowout the next 2 games?
How can you tell how this team is going to play? Not that I disagree with you, but this team is so unpredictable, only the great Rick Sund can see the light waiting for the core at the end of the tunnel…too bad its a train heading right at him.
SteveW
February 21st, 2011
10:52 am
We play 12 of 15 at home in March. We may surprise some of these folks.
Can’t wait to see how we play against the Bulls. I think the Bulls are better than us, but only slightly. We’ll see. Do we have any answer for Derrick Rose will the the key. We can take them at the other positions.
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
10:56 am
SteveW, in your prediction, you forget to mention that the Lakers, Celtics and Orlando pride themselves on competing for championships. If you think a cap is going to prevent them from trying to attain a title….
Like Utah and San Antonio, OKC will ALWAYS have to go through the Lakers. That’s the capologist I want for the Hawks….I know what his mission statement is…….
What will it take to bring a championship banner to the LA Laker family?
I don’t see a limitation in that mission statement.
slimjr
February 21st, 2011
11:00 am
“only the great Rick Sund can see the light waiting for the core at the end of the tunnel…too bad its a train heading right at him.”
LOL
KevinM
February 21st, 2011
11:02 am
The Hawks are already charging $250 for a lower level ticket to the Celtics, Heat, Magic…any game where the other team is the draw.
Who cares if it goes up to $500 or $1000? I don’t have to commit to the Hawks any more than they have committed to us….their mission statment should be to bring a championship to this city…if they want to be fiscally responsible also, hey, that’s their perogative. They can’t see the big picture should they decide to finally attempt such a big task for them.
They shouldn’t have gotten into the business if they didn’t want to commit to such a scenario. They aren’t bringing in lottery picks….they have already wasted their allotment this time around.
It’s a shame, because they could use numerous pieces to help Joe and/or Al going forward….consistent failures/disasters in the playoffs only weakens their roster’s supposed talents.