Atlanta Hawks: Joe Johnson: ‘No excuses’
LOS ANGELES–Wadup, blog people. Busy day finally over so checking in from the Left Coast, where it’s chilly and rainy just like when the Hawks were here in January. What the hell do I have to do to get blue skies and warm sunshine? Yeah, I’m bitter.
Anyway, no real news for your Hawks reps at the All-Star media session today. Well, Al said he and Amar’e are good after all of their back-and-forth, which he thinks really isn’t news.
“We cool, man,” he said, laughing at the question. “I told you he was just trying to make a big deal out of nothing. I didn’t have to say anything [to him]. He knew he was in the wrong, so he was cool.”
Some interesting stuff from Joe, though. When media types asked him about the Hawks, he kept coming back to the same theme: “No excuses.”
“I think all of the excuses are out the door,” he said. “We can’t hang our hat on we are a young team anymore. We can’t still say it’s a new coach. It’s just put up or shut up.”
Which brings me to something I’ve been thinking about lately. Perhaps some of you saw the quotes from Rick Sund in Hoopsworld a couple weeks back. If you didn’t, no big deal, because you’ve seen these quotes before (though that part about the Hawks being analogous to the Spurs was new–and regrettable).
Sund basically just rattled off the list of the team’s accomplishments. I get a similar list whenever I talk to Sund and certain other people in the organization. They talk about improving the record for five consecutive seasons. They talk about the 14 straight winning months. They talk about being a young team. They talk about doing all of these things while operating below the luxury tax threshold (which is, in my view, justifiable for the market, though the allocation of those funds is open to questioning).
As the beat guy, I have a responsibility to be accurate and fair in my coverage of the team. I strive to give an accurate representation of the Hawks–their strengths and weaknesses, their successes and failures–and place it in the context of what is a fair expectation for the team. I have to figure out what is a reasonable standard by which to judge them, and then do so honestly and dispassionately.
Sometimes formulating that standard can a tough thing, but here’s the thing when it comes to the Hawks: I don’t have to do it. The Hawks already did it for me when they let Woody walk.
After all, Woody was the coach when the Hawks improved their record for five consecutive seasons. He was the coach for 10 of the 14-month winning streak. He coached a young team to the East semis two years in a row. He did all of this with a team with a payroll below the luxury-tax line.
That’s not meant to give Woody a pass. The point is, Woody’s not the coach anymore and that’s tactic tacit acknowledgment from Hawks management that it believes all those accomplishments they like to recite weren’t enough. Shoot, forget tactic tacit: Michael Gearon Jr., Sund, the players,and L.D. all have said they expect more this year after the surrender to the Magic last spring.
Maybe the Hawks don’t get enough credit for their recent accomplishments, especially since this franchise doesn’t have many better times in its past. But, again, they weren’t enough for Hawks brass, and they’ve said so. That’s why I just don’t see how it’s helpful for management to continue to cite those achievements as a defense against calls for change or as some kind of proof that they belong among Sund’s elite.
So when I chronicle the Hawks’ season, I do so with the understanding that their ultimate goal is the East finals (while considering mitigating factors like injuries). If those standards are uncomfortably high for the Hawks, it’s because they made it that way when they parted ways with Woody and then said they think this team should do more.
Once they did that, it’s like J.J. said today: All of the excuses are out the door.
Check back in with you later in the weekend, blog people.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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276 comments Add your comment
sam'l
February 20th, 2011
2:17 am
I think all the Hawks have to stand up and say loudly and with conviction……we will be a team that demands respect for intelligent and courageous basketball. I really think that may be all that is needed. Based on what we have seen recently, that is still like asking for the moon…….
This really is a good time for a trade……but I don’t think you’ll see any changes. The ASG has absolutely no confidence in their own ability at this point. They’re scared to make a move…….
tony
February 20th, 2011
4:24 am
I would like for the hawks to hire Quinn Buckner to replace Rick Sund. 35 years as a gm without a championship had trouble written all over Sund’s resume. The man doesn’t know the difference between a pg and a sg.
This team is disfunctional and very immuture. If they put Kobe in that lineup they will still be disfunctional and mismanage. Sgs playing pg, fowards and centers dribbling the ball down court and forwards are shooting the ball from sg range.
This team needs a hc who has the ability to incorporate unity and stability with his coaching philosophy. I believe Bill Laimbeer fit the bill. I was very impress by the way he got Kara Braxton to buy into his coaching philosophy whereas Andy Landers was unable to which eventually led him to dismiss her from the team. Laimbeer former team(Pistons) is the only team to have a winning record against M.Jordan, Larry Bird abd Magic Johnson. He has 2 nba titless and 3 wnba titles. The man is a winner.
Hire Bill Laimbeer and draft Keith Benson-C
JoJo the Godfather
February 20th, 2011
6:08 am
Clippers are saying its Ryan Gomes, Craig Smith and a 2nd rounder for Marvin, but not real likely to happen because Hawks were worried about C Smith’s health. Gomes makes $4M in each of the next 2 years. Smith is on an expiring deal.
Trojan
February 20th, 2011
8:31 am
That clippers deal is horrible. We still won’t have a PG worth a crap!
Walter R. Terrell
February 20th, 2011
9:37 am
The permanent “CORE”, is becoming a permanent “BORE”. Everyone is timid about going to the hoop, except one “ALLSTAR” and it’s ,not the “ISO”. A big strong guard that plays small. A lot of that is routine Hawks play. The fold is coming because this time of the season is getting REAL. The Hawks get through this road trip with 3 wins i’ll by the crow and eat it, just gotta figure out if I like it fried or baked. I like Teague and Jordon and Etan even tho he has milage he still has heart. Jordan has the passion of “Stop Me” if you can, Jeff is smooth, slick with his dribbling and passing and Etan…just bangs em out of the way, homeboy is “TUFF”. There’s no sense in going to the playoffs (pipe dream) and lose in round 1 again, that’s to repetitive an seriously boring, but, next year could be a blessing. Youngbloods gotta play so accurate decisions can be made. This is only an opinion, hell, I interested in seeing if miracles can be performed.
SPUD WEBB
February 20th, 2011
9:44 am
trade marvin to toronto for jerryd bayless.
SPUD WEBB
February 20th, 2011
9:57 am
julian wright & jerryd bayless for jeff teague & maurice evans.
brigadierjerry
February 20th, 2011
10:14 am
Could anyone see Doc Rivers coaching the Hawks after this season?There is talk of him leaving the Celtics after this season. HC isnt the only issue I think some moves need to be made as well
Double Zero Eight
February 20th, 2011
12:41 pm
This time next year we will still be playing “Fantasy Basketball” in
Atlanta. We are on a downward spiral with this core. It is fun to dream
about the possibilities of upgrading our players at the PG and C positions.
It looks like it is going to be more of the same for the Hawks. Sund and ASG
have no clue as to what needs to be done. LD is powerless.
Melvin
February 20th, 2011
1:32 pm
Horford confirmed again he’s better playing against PF…..
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18834
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
1:34 pm
Craig Smith for Marvin? So we’re finally going to get a center? Yikes, thanks Sund, but if that’s the type of deal you are looking at, forget it! Smith is 6′7″, undersized for his position, which is being a tweener, with no perimeter game, and he doesn’t pass the ball much…
What other qualities has Sund uncovered on this one?
Sund, if you aren’t going to make a significant move, then get out of the business. So, you have 31 years of experience? Really?
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
1:39 pm
That Clippers rumor might be the worse one and this blog couldn’t have come up with that one. Give me 3 guys off this blog, and we could create a better rumor than that.
Sec 303, OB, SteveW, Grandad….anyone, help Sund…he has no clue what he is doing!
O'Brien
February 20th, 2011
3:32 pm
brigadierjerry,
I can’t imagine the ASG firing LD next season, because they would be on the hook for his $1.5 mil salary, and then they would have to turn around and pay Doc Rivers at least $5 mil. I just dont see the ASG spending that kind of money.
The crazy thing is Doc Rivers makes more in 1 year than what LD makes in 3 years. LD’s salary is 3 years, $4.5 mil…TOTAL. I think thats one reaon why they passed on Avery Johnson. His price tag is $4 -$4.5 mil per year.
marcus
February 20th, 2011
3:35 pm
the hawks should not have given joe johnson that big “a” contract. i like the guy and i think he is not portrayed fondly by the atlanta media, but he is not a “prime time” player who you build and solidify a franchise with. given his disposition during last year’s playoffs, i thought the atlanta owners would send him on his way, at least lok at the “feelers” from other clubs and what they thought of his value as a player, but they “blinked”. move should have been made to try and sign and trade him for a player like monta ellis who plays with passion every night and doe shis thing offensively and defensively. you have to ask the question, if johnson played in the west, would he be an all star? and the answer unequivacably would be no. he plays now like a player who got his money and does not give a damn.
O'Brien
February 20th, 2011
3:40 pm
This past offseason, lots of big name FA changed teams. Unfortunately, the Hawks did not have any cap space or the right contracts to make a deal.
In 2012, there could be some big name FA changing teams again. CP3, Deron, Dwight, Nash to name a few. Our only contract coming off the books that year is Bibby, but I hope Rick is keeping 2012 in mind as well.
superiorblogman
February 20th, 2011
3:43 pm
JoJo the Godfather
February 20th, 2011
6:08 am
Clippers are saying its Ryan Gomes, Craig Smith and a 2nd rounder for Marvin, but not real likely to happen because Hawks were worried about C Smith’s health. Gomes makes $4M in each of the next 2 years. Smith is on an expiring deal.
If that deal is true it’s even worse than the Sessions lateral move. For a guy that was quoted recently saying that he did not want lateral moves this shows that Sund is a piece of shi+ GM. If we can’t get Bledsoe or Jordan there is no deal to be made with the Clippers. Finally, I have been saying all along that Sund was brought here to do just what he did in Seattle run the franchise into the ground so that they could move it to Las Vegas. He is far worse than Billy Knight, Drew is far worse than Woody. You guys will wake up when its too late and recognize the decline.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
5:13 pm
“This past offseason, lots of big name FA changed teams. Unfortunately, the Hawks did not have any cap space or the right contracts to make a deal.”
Good point… yet another reason the Marvin/Bibby/Zaza deals given out in the summer of ‘09 are weighing down this team.
sam'l
February 20th, 2011
5:14 pm
Okay, okay bring back Woody. Sorry I got him fired.
drmaryb (*_*)
February 20th, 2011
6:00 pm
“Okay, okay bring back Woody. Sorry I got him fired.”
____________________
As, if you could?
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
6:16 pm
Woody can’t help this situation; its beyond the head coach. With our roster, very few could do more with this core. They have settled in, gotten comfortable, and don’t play every play like its their last.
Too many players expecting playing time instead of earning it.
To me, when a player openly says he’s unhappy, a la Marvin, management finally starts looking for a replacment. One other issue we have had here is that vets don’t want to come in and play behind the young guys we start. No one wants to back up Smoove or Al like a Shaq. The egos in the league will tell you that playing for Atlanta won’t bode well for their career. Joe may have been the only one who has truly benefitted from playing in Atlanta as the others. The rest of the roster would stil be in similar roles on other teams while Joe’s role here is supposed to be a #1 when he really is a 2 or 3. He is a Ray Allen to the elite teams of the NBA. And he would be a terrific 3.
Joe in New York with Stoudamire and possibly Anthony? That would be a tough big 3.
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
6:24 pm
Looking at the assist leaders in the NBA, our representation comes in at 40th….behind 8 non-PGs and 8 backup PGs…..
Now that in itself should be embarrassing based on the number of minutes the Bibster plays (30)….Sessions is 25th playing 26mpg.
That one stat right there should tick every Hawk fan off for not having an efficient PG since this ownership team has taken control.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
6:25 pm
Add 18mpg to his stats, and Bibster would average 2 more apg….yikes!
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
6:30 pm
Bibster is 16th in 3FGA in the league with 253, averaging 5 per game…he gets 9ppg based his 3 pt shooting, but hearing who is rumored to be in trade talks, you aren’t getting any threat of a 3 pt shooter.
That is an drastic change to what you have been doing at the PG slot this year.
Rev in Tampa
February 20th, 2011
7:06 pm
February 24: Trade deadline, 3 p.m. ET
Even though I know that there will be no activity between now and then I keep checking the blog hoping to see a blogposting from MC with a blockbuster deal. Oh well…
lewis
February 20th, 2011
7:33 pm
For the record, Gomes is seven times as good as any bench big we have, he’s big, tough and polished. Craig Smith would increase our toughness 10-fold, he is a more muscular dejuan blair type who beasted in college. It would also get rid of Marvin’s contract and strengthen our bench significantly.
lewis
February 20th, 2011
7:48 pm
We should try to get Cousins somehow. Josh or Al.
Ra'mon
February 20th, 2011
8:06 pm
Rev, I do the same thing! I refresh the ajc page all of the times. I still remember the trade that brought Bibby here, and how Sekou broke the story on All Star weekend. And truthfully, as much as Bibby has fell off. That trade took the Hawks into the playoffs, and cost nothing.
Hoops
February 20th, 2011
8:14 pm
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, NEW YORK!!! You can get Melo when this season is over! Let’s get serious about a trade. Here is the trade that puts NEW YORK over the top and helps the Hawks:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4drg5el
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
8:16 pm
SMH @ Ciara
Asked before the pre-game show who her “team” was. She at first said the East. But when asked again who her NBA team was, she mentioned the Heat . . and because she is from Atlanta, the Hawks . . but reinterated that the Heat is who she’s rolling with.
Not to bash ATL fans more, but that’s what irritates me. I don’t have a problem with her liking Miami. But if she’s a Hawks fan, why not show allegiance to the Hawks first and foremost? And I’m not going to excuse her from being “just a girl”, because she does go to Hawks games ( the big games of course ).
It’s sad. The transplants may root for the Hawks on occasion, but root for their home team/favorite squad when they come to Atlanta. But Ciara can’t even stay loyal to the hometeam?
smh
And she’s not the only Hawks fan that does this. As a fan base, that’s what we need more than anything else . . .
LOYALTY
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
8:24 pm
Maybe Ciara knows terrible management when she sees it.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
8:25 pm
Lenny Kravitz . . lol . . thought he was dead I haven’t seen him in so long.
My advertising group in college did an ad campaign on the Dodge Neon back in 1994, and produced a commercial featuring the LK song “Are You Gonna Go My Way”.
Something to look for:
Doc Rivers said after the reserves were announced that he would play all 4 Celtics together at some point. he also jokingly alluded to playing another guy with them ( possibly an upcoming free agent ).
So I guess you’ll see Dwight Howard running with the Celtics 4 guys. And although he’s not a free agent, don’t be surprised if Doc puts Horford at Center, to run with Boston’s 4.
Al may not know what to do with himself.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
8:29 pm
LOL . . Duncan goes from a guy who arguably shouldn’t have even made the team, to an All-Star starter.
Ra'mon
February 20th, 2011
8:37 pm
Northcyde, imagine the uproar if Yao wasn’t injured.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
9:01 pm
So it’s the Celtics + Howard in the game.
Honestly, that East squad right now might get ran off the floor. Unless they play regular season style lockdown defense, it’s no way that East team right now can keep up the type of scoring needed in the All Star game.
O'Brien
February 20th, 2011
9:01 pm
Imagine how good the Celtics would be if they had Howard? Wow. Although there may not have been enough balls to go around.
It would be nice to see Al and JJ have good games…
northcyde,
A guy like Shaq would have won some big name fans over (if the ASG had signed him).
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
9:06 pm
I’ll be satisfied if Al and Joe just somehow top 10 minutes. I doubt that both reach double digits in minutes in this game.
O'Brien
February 20th, 2011
9:13 pm
Didnt Al tell Doc Rivers he wants to play PF…
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
9:14 pm
Bosh is balling, and JJ will be last off the bench. Pierce and Ray Allen playing like garbage.
ant banks
February 20th, 2011
9:15 pm
‘POOP, NORTHCYDE, HOOPS, MARCUS, ET AL,
can someone please explain how MELO DRAMA is NOT tamperin’? stern fined gearon, jr. for makin’ an obvious statement about goin’ over the luxury tax if he could sign lebron.
darien williams has now come out and said that he is interested in the knicks next year when he becomes a f/a.
STERN IS VERY INCONSISTENT
ant banks
February 20th, 2011
9:19 pm
‘melo would be a fool to go to the nets who are garbage right now and will be for atleast next year too. atleast the knicks are headed to the playoffs. i feel sorry for the hawks if this deal is done.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
9:24 pm
It’s not tampering if the team that currently has the player allows other teams to talk to the player. In this case, the Nuggets have allowed the Nets and Knicks to talk to Melo.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
9:34 pm
We all know that Stern is biased. He’ll say that a player can say that, but an owner can’t.
@ O’Brien . . the ASG are definitely clueless on how to market the Hawks and make money. Shaq was a marketing no brainer for the Atlanta markt. But I can imagine either Gearon or Sund being one of those “I hate Shaq” type people, that wouldn’t want him even if he was in his prime.
I can see Ciara right now, still liking the Heat, but showing up to All-Star in a red Shaq Hawks jersey dress. She’d be all for the Hawks then.
Rev in Tampa
February 20th, 2011
9:34 pm
ant,
I think your point is well-taken regarding the tampering. With guys telegraphing their intentions and colluding to form ’super’ teams, it weakens the entire integrity of the NBA. It will reach a tipping point, eventually, when the whole league will be looked upon as a joke.
northcyde
February 20th, 2011
9:40 pm
OMG . ., you mean that TNT ( the hometown network ) actually took time to devote 2 or 3 minutes to the Hawks, interviewing both JJ and Al? And they actually asked relevant questions?
And there you have it folks, JJ’s comments indicate that he doesn’t expect the Hawks to make a move. He and Al both stressed “consitency” as the main problem.
Hard to be consistent when some of the players suck, but that’s another issue.
Booo!
February 20th, 2011
9:51 pm
Actually JJ said we needed to be better on DEFENSE. To me that translates to “Trade mike Bibby, Mo Evans, and Marvin Williams”
Hoops
February 20th, 2011
9:51 pm
northcyde,
Be nice about your Hawks! They will keep their core together for @ least 10 more years!
Booo!
February 20th, 2011
10:00 pm
See this is why a PG who dominates the Ball like Jeff Teage should be starting instead of mike Bibby. Did you see how Smooth JJ’s threes looked? He used to get looks like that all the time in PHX (led the league in 3pt FG % that season). But With Bibby not being able to dribble a basketball, and jamal always looking to get his, JJ has to fend for himself. We he has to not only make plays for himself, but for others as well. He and Jamal are SG’s they shouldnt have to do that.
If Bibby cannot do his job (distubete the ball effectively and create as A POINT GUARD) then why in the H E L L is he on the floor?
Do you know how many blogs I go to where other teams WANT JEFF TEAGE in their trade proposals that involve the Hawks? Somtimes you just dont understand what you have until its gone. Yet the guy who sucks (Bibby) gets a pass.
I’m all for trading Marvin, Jamal, Mo, and Bibby (all whom happen to be sub par to average defenders). If it lands us chris Kaman or Devin Harris, im all for it. Jordan Craword will Fil in nicely for Jamal.
Booo!
February 20th, 2011
10:03 pm
We gotta shake something up. Outside of our Captains, pretty much everyone should be “on the block”. I would only trade Jeff Teage if i’m getting back a really spectacular PG or center in return.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
10:13 pm
By the way, Sean Williams won the MVP of the D-League All Star game yesterday. Just thought I’d throw that out there for Worldwide Clyde.
O'Brien
February 20th, 2011
10:22 pm
Najeh,
Maybe Hawks should bring in Sean Williams for a workout. I’m sure the mood in the locker room would be high(er) than what it is right now.
On a serious note though, I would be fine with the Hawks bringing him in for a 10 day tryout. And in practice, I would have him and Josh Powell play one on one.
Sean Williams played good defense at times, but his mind was not always where it needed to be,