Atlanta Hawks: Joe Johnson: ‘No excuses’
LOS ANGELES–Wadup, blog people. Busy day finally over so checking in from the Left Coast, where it’s chilly and rainy just like when the Hawks were here in January. What the hell do I have to do to get blue skies and warm sunshine? Yeah, I’m bitter.
Anyway, no real news for your Hawks reps at the All-Star media session today. Well, Al said he and Amar’e are good after all of their back-and-forth, which he thinks really isn’t news.
“We cool, man,” he said, laughing at the question. “I told you he was just trying to make a big deal out of nothing. I didn’t have to say anything [to him]. He knew he was in the wrong, so he was cool.”
Some interesting stuff from Joe, though. When media types asked him about the Hawks, he kept coming back to the same theme: “No excuses.”
“I think all of the excuses are out the door,” he said. “We can’t hang our hat on we are a young team anymore. We can’t still say it’s a new coach. It’s just put up or shut up.”
Which brings me to something I’ve been thinking about lately. Perhaps some of you saw the quotes from Rick Sund in Hoopsworld a couple weeks back. If you didn’t, no big deal, because you’ve seen these quotes before (though that part about the Hawks being analogous to the Spurs was new–and regrettable).
Sund basically just rattled off the list of the team’s accomplishments. I get a similar list whenever I talk to Sund and certain other people in the organization. They talk about improving the record for five consecutive seasons. They talk about the 14 straight winning months. They talk about being a young team. They talk about doing all of these things while operating below the luxury tax threshold (which is, in my view, justifiable for the market, though the allocation of those funds is open to questioning).
As the beat guy, I have a responsibility to be accurate and fair in my coverage of the team. I strive to give an accurate representation of the Hawks–their strengths and weaknesses, their successes and failures–and place it in the context of what is a fair expectation for the team. I have to figure out what is a reasonable standard by which to judge them, and then do so honestly and dispassionately.
Sometimes formulating that standard can a tough thing, but here’s the thing when it comes to the Hawks: I don’t have to do it. The Hawks already did it for me when they let Woody walk.
After all, Woody was the coach when the Hawks improved their record for five consecutive seasons. He was the coach for 10 of the 14-month winning streak. He coached a young team to the East semis two years in a row. He did all of this with a team with a payroll below the luxury-tax line.
That’s not meant to give Woody a pass. The point is, Woody’s not the coach anymore and that’s tactic tacit acknowledgment from Hawks management that it believes all those accomplishments they like to recite weren’t enough. Shoot, forget tactic tacit: Michael Gearon Jr., Sund, the players,and L.D. all have said they expect more this year after the surrender to the Magic last spring.
Maybe the Hawks don’t get enough credit for their recent accomplishments, especially since this franchise doesn’t have many better times in its past. But, again, they weren’t enough for Hawks brass, and they’ve said so. That’s why I just don’t see how it’s helpful for management to continue to cite those achievements as a defense against calls for change or as some kind of proof that they belong among Sund’s elite.
So when I chronicle the Hawks’ season, I do so with the understanding that their ultimate goal is the East finals (while considering mitigating factors like injuries). If those standards are uncomfortably high for the Hawks, it’s because they made it that way when they parted ways with Woody and then said they think this team should do more.
Once they did that, it’s like J.J. said today: All of the excuses are out the door.
Check back in with you later in the weekend, blog people.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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276 comments Add your comment
superiorblogman
February 19th, 2011
5:39 pm
O’Brien
February 19th, 2011
4:55 pm
superiorblogman,
Say No to Ramon Sessions. Teague can be better and Jordan is already better..
FACT: For his career (this is his 4th year in the league), Sessions averages 11 points, 5 assists, and 3 rebs per game in 25 minutes.
Jordan is a SG who MIGHT be capable of handling the PG position. And even if Teague can be better than Sessions, is he better than Sessions right now? I dont think so. And Sessions is only 2 years older than Teague, so Ramon can still improve too.
I think Teague has the potential to develop into a PG like Sessions (penetrates, gets to the line, not a good shooter), but why take the chance if a sure thing is available.
Sessions is far from a sure thing. There is a reason he was once in the D-League, there is a reason the TWolves got rid of him and those reasons are that he has not always played at the level that his career averages would indicate. He has been up and down. Teague would be just as good if he got 25 MPG. Also the cost. I would not give up Teague nor Jordan for the guy, he is not worth it. Finally, Jordan should have never been drafted, that should have been a C. The Hawks are always looking at things the wrong way.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
6:18 pm
Ty Lawson – I still remember that draft night. ATL wanted Ty Lawson according to the front office after the draft. The Sixers took Jrue Holiday at 17. The only thing that stood between the Hawks and Ty Lawson were the TWolves, who had already drafted Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flynn. I said, “We got Ty Lawson!”
Then the Wolves drafted Lawson, their 3rd PG in the 1st 18 picks. I was shocked. They did trade him to the Nuggets. But that’s how we got Teague. It basically ended up between Teague and Maynor, and Maynor was immediate help, but Teague had more upside. So we got Teague.
I don’t blame LD for not playing Teague. LD’s contract is in win now mode. He has not time to develop JT or JC2. He needs vets to save his job, so I understand. I really think Woody would have developed Teague more this 2nd season than LD has.
But LD is coaching for his job, so he’s looking for vets, not developing players. And I hate it, because I really think Teague is going to be a player in this league.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
6:36 pm
That 2009 draft. I remember thinking it may be good to draft that Mullen guy from Ohio St. He’s done nothing. But I keep reading from NBA types he’s going to be a good to very good NBA player.
And I also remember DeJuan Blair falling down to #45. He was projected at 15 or 16, and I like him in college at Pitt. I remember thinking, why don’t the Hawks grab this guy? Popovich has done pretty well with him in SA.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
6:44 pm
MC . . it is what it is.
That’s why I NEVER cast Woody as being the villian in the Hawks organization. He wasn’t the problem, no matter what the fans thought. He got as much out of this team ( as constructed ) as he could.
No true PG . . no center . . no go to low post player . . no perimeter defender at the point. Same issues he had back then, we have now. Jerry Sloan, contrary to popular belief, couldn’t get much more out of this bunch, because we’d still have the same issues. No defense at PG . . no bench . . no low post scorer.
People just simply need to not concern themselves with what the ASG will ( or won’t ) do, and just watch this team simply because they are fans of the squad. WE know they’re not going to do much of anything. So if you go out to support them . . good. That’s what you SHOULD DO as a fan. If not . . then that’s your business.
But as you said MC, with the ASG basically choosing to do the bare minimum, or nothing at all, they too ought to just shut up about everything as well. Don’t complain about the crowd, or the fans, or even the team that THEY constructed. Just shut up and watch the games, hope everything works out, and if it doesn’t, oh well. Just stop speaking altogether. Because eyes and ears are watching and hearing what you say, and we don’t forget ish.
The Hawks as a team ( and not as an organization ) have my full support. Whatever happens . . happens.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
6:47 pm
And in a roundabout way, I think JJ understands this. That’s the reason why you don’t see him get too high or too low after a good win or a bad loss.
I remember last year in which fans criticized JJ for downplaying that first victory over the Celtics, while Jamal and some of the other guys thought it was a huge stepping stone. JJ saw the bigger picture. One game ( whether good or bad ) does not make or break your season.
At the end of the day, this year’s version of the Hawks will be judged by how they play in April, May, and hopefully June.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
6:54 pm
KevinM – Unless I’ve missed something, the Heat are in abysmal shape with the cap. Miller and Haslem are both 30+, oft injured, and have 5 year deals. The big 3 all get raises every year. So they basically are the big 3, with an aging Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem, and vet minimum guys or rookies, nothing else. Did I miss something?
The Heat are toast in the cap. And they traded away almost every 1st pick between now and doomsday to sign LeBron and Bosh to their max contracts in sign and trades. They have no room to manuever. You must be a blind Miami fan. I’m a Hawks fan, but I’ve got my eyes wide open to our pros and cons (I hope).
Najeh Davenpoop
February 19th, 2011
6:59 pm
Teague may very well be better than Sessions given playing time, but if the Hawks are not going to develop him it’s irrelevant. A decent player who will get playing time is more valuable to this team than a better player who won’t get playing time.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
7:03 pm
Searching on Sessions on Cavs blogs, Cle newspapers, and other sites:
Sessions plays terrible D, but can drive to the hole.
He’s basically a SG playing PG, but has no 3.
JC2 played at Xavier, so the Ohioans want JC2 and a 2nd pick for him. Believe it or not, they also want Bibby (some of them) because of some trade that Petrie shafted the Cavs a few years ago and didn’t send them Bibby in a proposed deal. Now thats the fans (some of them), I hope the brass feels the same way. Ship them Bibby and a 2nd pick, and now your cooking….
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
7:05 pm
The Cavs fans assesment – He’s a backup PG, no more, and not part of the Cavs future rebuilding (most of them feel that way.
And look how the Lakers are getting exploited at the Point with Fish and Blake. But they have some low post beasts that can make up for some of it.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
7:17 pm
Najeh – I agree with you 100%. I’m not sure LD would play Sessions if we got him. What if he got in here, and couldn’t learn the offense or something. I like Sessions, and have since Neveda, but I’m not sure he’s our answer.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
7:38 pm
Miami’s cap nightmare – 64.7m committed to 8 players next year. That includes Z and Eddie House with player options which you would assume they would exercise. So basically spots 9-13 would have to be picks and vet minimum guys.
‘012-’013 – 66,143,000 committed to only 6 guys, the big 3 and Miller, Haslem and Anthony
‘013-’014 – Over 71 mill committed to the same 6 players.
The next year, all 6 guys have player options for over 76 mill.
They have no room for anything other than vet minimum, and picks.
But about the picks. Miami’s 2011 1st pick goes to the Raptors for Bosh. Their ‘12 and ‘13 picks go to the Cavs for LeBron. Their ‘15 pick goes to the Cavs also (1st pick).
Now they have 3 second round picks coming to them in the next few years. But no 1st pick until 2014.
And Joel Anthony is signed until he’s 32
Mike Miller is signed until he’s 35 (he’s 31 now)
Udonis is signed until he’s 34.
DWade turns 30 January 17th of next year
Bosh is signed until he’s 31
If the Heat don’t win this year or next, in my opinion they are toast. Miller and Haslem will be to old, they have no 1st picks, and DWade will begin to age rapidly with his kamikaze style of play.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
7:57 pm
Astounding Josh Smith stats:
Josh is averaging more 3 point attempts per game in Feb. than any other month this season (in 7 games).
But he’s only shooting 21.1% on 3’s in Feb.
Josh would be shooting 60.4% from the field in Feb. if he had not shot a 3.
Josh has not had a block in 3 of 7 games in Feb.
Josh’s blocks per game has fallen every month this season so far. I don’t like him playing so far away from the basket.
SPUD WEBB
February 19th, 2011
8:05 pm
let’s trade marvin williams and jeff teague to washington for kirk hinrich and cartier martin.
slim4jr
February 19th, 2011
8:27 pm
“Dont underestimate the possibility of the Hawks going on a losing streak and the Knicks going on a winning streak.
I cosign @ O’Brien
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
8:29 pm
SteveW . . . I would kill to be “capped out” like Miami, if it meant that I had 2 bonafide superstars on the team, a 3rd guy who is an All-Star, a streak shooter, and a guy on the frontline who you know will at least rebound, if anything else.
Miami is not worried at all about their cap number, because the Big 2.5 will bring in the revenue by the boatloads. They’ve already proven that at least in the regular season, that they can win a ton of games with veteran cast off type players.
One name you’re forgetting though when it comes to Miami, is Desean Butler out of West Virginia. He was a projected top 20 pick last year, before he tore his ACL in the Final Four. If that guy comes back fully healed, he’s going to be a very good player for that team in a complimentary role.
LOL . . Miami will be more than OK for the next 3 – 4 years, regardless of what their payroll is. As long as they can get quality vets to go to South Beach for pennies on the dollar, while drafting quality young guys late in the 1st and 2nd round, the Heat are going to be very relevant for years to come.
I’d switch places with them in a heartbeat.
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
8:52 pm
we won something!
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
Al and Smitty bringing home the all star hardware..
Najeh Davenpoop
February 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
Team ATL wins the Shooting Stars competition. The WNBA representative looks like she’s going bald, but it’s all good. ATL’s first championship in 16 years, word.
Mac-Town, Georgia (urban-macon.blogspot.com)
February 19th, 2011
8:55 pm
TEAM ATLANTA won the shooting stars game. We got a trophy.
When is the next time we’re gonna see a trophy in this state?
Good on one hand, on the other, more of an excuse for Sund not to get something done.
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
8:56 pm
CoCo’s looked that way since her UGA days.. i remember watching her there rocking the same pony tail when i was in middle school..
Najeh Davenpoop
February 19th, 2011
8:56 pm
“more of an excuse for Sund not to get something done.”
LMAO I can’t wait to see what the fake Rick Sund has to say about this.
“We have a team full of STARS and since we won the Shooting Stars competitions clearly we are CHAMPIONS”
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
8:57 pm
lol @ Rick using the shooting stars competition as leverage to his elitist argument..
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
8:57 pm
* in his
Mac-Town, Georgia (urban-macon.blogspot.com)
February 19th, 2011
9:02 pm
lol he’d use anything.
“One of our core members, a big at that, is out here knocking down half court bombs against NBA Champion guards like Kenny Smith, All Star Marksmen like Nowitzski and briniging home a piece of hardware, and you guys think we need to make moves???”
O'Brien
February 19th, 2011
9:04 pm
I wonder if the ASG will add this to their list of accomplishments.
“One of our players was a member of a championship team on all-star weekend, so fans should come out and support the Hawks”
O'Brien
February 19th, 2011
9:06 pm
northcyde,
co-sign. And the same thing will happen in NY if they gut their team to sign Melo. With Amare and Melo, every aging all-star who didnt end up in Miami, Boston, or LA, will sign for cheap in NY.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
9:10 pm
Northcyde – Not forgetting DeSean – They waived him, but because we signed Pape Sy, and LD is not interested in developing for the future right now, we couldn’t sign him because we are maxed out at 15 players. I was one of the one’s saying the only good thing that will come out of them signing Dampier, is they had to waive Butler.
And the Heat can’t win a title in my opinion. Boston will crush them inside and dominate them with Rondo at the point. A 7 game bloodbath Boston is built for, but the Heat are not.
P.S. I also think LeBron is gutless and Garnett will break Bosh like a twig. Wade has the heart of a lion, but he’s not enough. Just my thoughts.
But would I like to have LeBron, Wade, and Bosh – yea. And do I think they are closer to a Championship than ATL – yea. Do I think they can beat Boston or LA in a playoff series? No, not this year or next. And then DWade, Haslem, and Miller are to old.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
9:10 pm
See Hawks fans . . . we can be winners.
OK . . so the Heat won’t have 1st round picks for the next 3 years. I’d still trade places with them. They’ll be able to find a low wage vet or two that will produce for them.
Heck, we found Flip Murray on the side of the road, and he had a pretty good year for us 2 years ago.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
9:18 pm
Nothcyde – you said, “while drafting quality young guys late in the 1st and 2nd round,” about Miami
They don’t have a first round pick until 2014
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
9:20 pm
Northcyde – oops! You beat me to my last post. And yes, you can find Tracy McGrady’s and Rafer Alstons on the cheap.
On the other hand, I think if they get beat in the 2nd round let’s say the next 2 years, they may have a tougher market to attract the quality vet minimum guys.
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
9:24 pm
Da’Sean is in fact currently a Free Agent and can sign with any team. If we didn’t need Etan for Dwight, I will once again say the Hawks sure need to sign him. Maybe if Pape is a bust, ship him back to Le Havre and sign Da ‘Sean!
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
9:35 pm
i swear Junkyard Dog Jerome Williams is @ every all star..
how long has he been out the league..
SteveW
February 19th, 2011
9:44 pm
Let’s see – the Knicks starting Billups, Landry, Carmelo, and Amare. That’s pretty good right there. Carmelo’s more of a half court guy though. I’m not sure if he’s built for transition basketball on a regular basis. But that’s still a good team.
brigadierjerry
February 19th, 2011
9:46 pm
Funny thing is I think that Teague’s ceiling could be that of an aaron brooks type who I would love the hawks try and obtain.
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
10:18 pm
lol @ Nique..
too cool for school every time the camera finds him..
pigeon toed shawty..
O'Brien
February 19th, 2011
10:44 pm
So many rumors out there. Now they are saying the Nets did meet with Melo this evening. From espn.com;
The long-awaited meeting between Carmelo Anthony and the New Jersey Nets took place late Saturday afternoon at a Los Angeles-area restaurant, according to a league source.
The Nets owner, Russian billionaire Mikhail Prokhorov, and minority owner Jay-Z informed Anthony of the club’s short-term and long-term vision — the certainty of their move to Brooklyn for the start of the 2012-13 season, as well as their plans to build a championship-caliber team around him, largely through free agency..
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
10:50 pm
I hate being here at work, running back and forth to my computer trying to see this. What dunk did Derozan do to get a 50?
McGee’s 3 ball dunk was impressive, no matter how many times he took to make it.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
10:51 pm
The ASG made a mistake with Teague, by not sending him to the D-League, after it was obvious that both Woody and Drew didn’t trust the kid enough to give him consistent minutes. The same goes for Acie.
But then again, that may have exposed him quicker.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
10:54 pm
Oh . . and Javale McGee’s mama could get it.
Wow @ Griffin’s dunk. Damn he got up high.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
11:04 pm
Nice presentation, but Griffin’s dunk was over the hood, not the roof. If he’d jump over the roof, that would’ve been impressive. I hope Javale McGee comes up with something spectacular.
northcyde
February 19th, 2011
11:07 pm
Oh well . .not spectacular enough. I guess I have to wait until I get off to see Derozan’s dunk.
Mac-Town, Georgia (urban-macon.blogspot.com)
February 19th, 2011
11:17 pm
Dunk contest couldnt have been more obvious….
Najeh Davenpoop
February 19th, 2011
11:20 pm
That kinda went downhill after the first round. Ibaka, Griffin, and McGee in the first round and DeRozan in the second round had the best dunks. The car dunk was pretty lame. Maybe if he had jumped over the top of the car it’s more impressive. If Kobe can jump that high so can Blake.
bigdave
February 19th, 2011
11:25 pm
all in all DeRozan had the more polished dunks.. Serge free throw dunk and Ms McGee highlighted the evening..
get McGee and Curry in Hawks uni’s love the MILFS maaaaaaan..
O'Brien
February 19th, 2011
11:31 pm
Kenny Smith said the ball was not thrown in the right place, so maybe the plan was to jump closer to the roof (and not over the hood).
northcyde,
Its hard to describe the DeRozan dunk. It’s like he bounced the ball, cuffed it, and then did a reverse dunk. You gotta see it.
But I agree with sending Teague to the D-League. If he goes there and does not play well, then tht pretty much lets them know he is not ready. if he plays well, then maybe he will find his inner dog and play better when he comes back.
I think they should send JC2 to the D-League as well. I know they want him to get the NBA practice, but how mnay minutes will he get when JC1 and JJ play most of the SG minutes? And he hardly gets any PT with the hawks anyway.
Shoot, they could even have him play some PG minutes in the D-League.
Mac-Town, Georgia (urban-macon.blogspot.com)
February 20th, 2011
12:08 am
lol @ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbs=mbl%3A1&q=stephen+curry+chick&aq=f&aqi=p-p1g9&aql=&oq=
Wabe
February 20th, 2011
12:12 am
I’m with superiorblogman on this one.
I don’t think Sessions is what a lot of folks here are advertising him to be. Sure, he could be an upgrade compared to what we’re getting out of our PG right now, but I highly doubt he’s a peice that’s gonna get the Hawks any further than they would with Bibby at point. The Hawks need to land/develop a player at the point who will legitimately be the PG of the future. Do you honestly see Sessions fitting into a category with the likes of Paul, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, D.Williams? That’s what the Hawks should be shooting for, because that’s what it’s gonna take. Sessions would just be another stop gap, which is something I think the Hawks should absolutely avoid at this point. We had Bibby as the stop gap, and he was supposed to be the guy that bought us time to get his replacement and our PG of the future. Unfortunately, we either have had terrible draft choices or coaches who choose to get every ounce out of Bibby they possibly can, and they neglect what’s in this team’s best long term interest.
I can understand Drew’s in a bind here. He’s only got 2 years to prove he can be the man. But, part of why many here were excited about Drew was because we thought he’d develop Teague and give the guy minutes. But it’s been a duplicate of what we saw Woody doing. It’s irritating, and you’ve gotta know that Bibby’s a serious liability at this point in his career. If you’re the coach and can’t recognize that, or you’re delaying developing another option to rack up a few more regular season wins, again, we’ve got problems (which we do).
This team isn’t going *ANYWHERE* until you see a real change in the make up of the team. The obvious position to point to is PG. You’ve got a wealth of young studs at PG’s for a lot of teams. You’re telling me the Hawks can’t land one, after running through how many draft choices? There’s something more than shere talent that’s the problem here. Development is clearly not a strength.
superiorblogman
February 20th, 2011
12:18 am
Quiet on the Clipper front. In other words, don’t send a car to the airport to pick up Marvin Williams. Not happening.
Who the heck is lisa dillman and who are we trying to get from the Clippers? Baron Davis wants to be in LA so leave him there. I don’t like Kaman. I will take Deandre Jordan though. That’s about all I would like from the Clips and I doubt if they would trade him even though they are gonna have to pay him 5-7 million to be a backup unless they can move Kaman.
superiorblogman
February 20th, 2011
12:19 am
I got the above info from hoopshype.com about the Clippers and Marvin
KevinM
February 20th, 2011
1:39 am
SteveW, if you can’t see that Miami is in good long term shape, then you aren’t paying attention. These guys aren’t splitting up if they don’t get it done within 2 years. They will have resources far better than any other team.
You think the Celtics or Magic or Bulls are in better shape long term?
Chicago is as close to Miami in stabliity but everyone else will fall way short and have to play to win today.
And being over 30 doesn’t make you a deficiency on the court. You’re saying guys can’t play until they’re 35?
Sund and Gearon ‘WISH’ they had Miami’s issues. Just because I envision the Heat being a factor like Oklahoma City long term, why does that make me a Miami fan? Riley had a vision to blow up that terrible roster he had last year, and living in Miami can’t be all bad.
Superior, its hard to actually know what Marvin is worth. DeAndre has been on my wish list for 2 years. Give me a draft pick because you know they are picking early.