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Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 94, Pistons 79

11:35 pm February 14, 2011, by Michael Cunningham

Bibby had bounce for the Hawks. (AP Photo)

Bibby had bounce for the Hawks. (AP Photo)

Auburn Hills, Mich.–It’s not that the Hawks played particularly well. It’s that they didn’t stay down once they got there and then competently put away the Pistons even though scoring wasn’t easy after halftime (a situation that’s never been their strong suit).

  • It’s not a W that will answer any questions about their status in the East. It is a W that allows them a chance to move forward from the ugly Ls to Philly and Charlotte at Philips.
  • “We play with more of an ‘us against them’ mentality on the road,” L.D. said.
  • Not sure about the mentality, but the Hawks got production from some places they can’t always count on. Bibby, of course, topped the list.
  • He hadn’t scored as many as 17 points since he had 19 against the Nets on Dec. 19. That’s also the last time he had as many combined points and assists (24), and this year he’s never had as many points, assists and rebounds combined (30).
  • “This was probably one of his better games this year,” L.D. said. “It just seemed like he had more zap, more spunk and he was moving around really well. I wanted to keep him out on the floor as much as I could, especially when I took Joe out.”
  • The Hawks don’t win without Bibby’s contributions. He scored on a night they struggled with it, was the only guy rebounding outside of Smoove and Marvin and expertly pushed the pace when the Hawks needed to run.
  • Even in the halfcourt, Bibby was dancing with the ball. Bynum seemed caught off guard when Bibby blew by him for a basket in the second half.
  • “I was more aggressive,” Bibby said. “I have been letting myself get down a little too much and I let it affect the way I played. No one really expects me to go to basket anymore so I just tried to make an effort to make things happen.”
  • Bibby’s offensive production more than compensated for his troubles keeping Stuckey Bynum out of the lane. In the second half his teammates minimized the damage by getting more in sync with the backline help, the closeouts and the switches.
  • “Even though we was scrambling out there sometimes, guys stepped up and helped each other out,” Josh said. “For the guys that was helping each other out, somebody else had their back. Whenever we have that trust factor out on the court defensively, that’s when we are a tough team to score on.”
  • Smoove (28 points on 17 shots, 14 rebounds) controlled the game at times. His jump shot was falling, too.
  • The Pistons managed just 28 points after halftime. They scored seven points in the opening eight minutes of the fourth quarter. After making 8 of 10 3-point attempts in the first half, Detroit made 2 of 9 after halftime.
  • “We had to defend that 3-point line,” L.D. said. “We had to run them off. They have got some guys that can really stroke it. When Villanueva came in the game, when Daye came in the game we had to make a conscious effort defending the three. We ended up switching a lot of things they were involved in just so we could get body on body. When that happens we have got to make sure we sit down on guys like Bynum and Stuckey. We have got to contain them off the dribble.”
  • Things got away from the Hawks when L.D. went to the bench in the first half. Actually, throw out that stretch late in the first quarter and early in the second and the Hawks pretty much dominated the Pistons. L.D. tightened the rotation after halftime, using only Marvin and Jamal until garbage time.
  • The Hawks were off and running in the second quarter with the Bibby-Joe-Marvin-Josh-Al lineup. They were credited with eight fastbreak points and I counted at least two other baskets created off the secondary break.
  • “We knew they played last night and we knew their legs were going to be a little tired,” Marvin said. “We are a faster team than they are. Once we went to the small lineup, we’ve got five guys that can push the ball and make plays.”
  • Marvin was the exception to the general lack of anything from the bench. He stuck his nose in to collect seven defensive rebounds and earned eight free-throw attempts.
  • This was a game for those blog people who like Marvin coming off the bench because he gets more involved that way and the second unit desperately needs his production.
  • “Coming in as a reserve, he’s getting a chance to get a real feel for the game just watching the rhythm of the game,” L.D. said. “When he gets in there, I am going right to him. Tonight he did a good job playing within himself.”
  • Marvin still doesn’t see it that way: “You’ve got to feel it to get a feel for it, I think. It’s going to be something that obviously I am going to have to adjust to, but I will figure it out.”
  • Zaza is out of sorts. His worst moment was catching the ball in the paint alone near the rim and fading away from it to miss a bank shot. It’s getting to the point where sometimes it almost seems as if he would rather be fouled than have to finish at the basket.
  • Jamal had a season-low two shots in 30 minutes. And this time he didn’t offset the lack of points with dimes, getting just two against three assists. Can’t remember the last time he was this unnoticeable.
  • Joe didn’t have it going but at least he didn’t shoot the Hawks out of it. Interesting, though, that L.D. called a timeout after Joe missed an iso jump hook on the baseline and Josh rebounded Gordon’s miss. The Hawks were up 88-75 at the time but clearly Drew was worried about poor shot selection letting Detroit back in it.
  • Marvin, by the way, scored on a drive after that timeout. The Hawks worked the ball around but couldn’t find an opening so Marvin took his man off the dribble.
  • L.D.’s caution about fouls, not health, limited Al to 28 minutes. “It’s good,” Al said of his back. “At this point it’s just sore. But I feel pretty good.”

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

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126 comments Add your comment

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
3:14 pm

Give me Thabeet and an extra year on his contract vs. what Marvin does for us now….we have shown to be able to win without Marvin, as the team goes no matter whether he is there or not….he is very invisible.

Astro, compare the rebounds between Marvin and Thabeet, and its a wash…Thabeet 70 in 350 min, Marvin 190 in 1090 min…I think its safe to say we get more use out of Thabeet on the backline than Marvin has ever thought about…but we really are arguing over 2 Number 2 draft picks that have not met expectations for either team. I just know how far we have gotten with Marvin, and I am for someone to give us some length and potential around the rim instead of on the wing.

Given the salary numbers, we have 2 years to get Thabeet productive before his QO (qualifying offer) of 8.44M, but Marvin has a PO (player option) of 7.5M that same year. I like the thought of Thabeet growing instead of Marvin being on the bottom on the list of top SFs.
Next 2 years: Thabeet: 11.5M owed
Marvin: 15.787M owed

I just saved Sund/Gearon a guaranteed 4.2M over the next 2 years.

Section 303

February 15th, 2011
3:18 pm

The Truth, I tend to agree with you. Josh has been playing better these days. Biggest compliment I can give him is that he was one of only a few Hawks that played hard/well against Philly last week. In years past, I think he would have been the one to carry the “I don’t care” flag.

My only concern with Josh is his shot selection. The shots fell last night, but they don’t always. I still say that guy is a monster when he attacks the rim. Good things usually happen. And, without looking at numbers, I think his free throw shooting has improved the past month or so.

I don’t have a problem with him shooting from outside. He can hit those shots. Just when he jacks up 3’s with 23 seconds still on the shot clock….that drives me nuts.

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
3:22 pm

303, I am not going to argue with you on Thabeet vs. Zaza, but you do know that it does take minutes just like everyone here is asking to give to Teague. They both need mentors and minutes.
Teague I believe is Van Exel’s responsiblity? Well, let’s give him some minutes then or Van Exel should not be here.

Thabeet-go get Mutombo and let him show him how its done even if he has to go down to the D-League and work on it.

Truthfully, I don’t see an advantage keeping Marvin or Zaza at this point. Both have shown any skills they are going to show. I want to at least see some movement to say we are trying to go forward instead of saying, we want to stay 4th!

K-Dogg

February 15th, 2011
3:23 pm

The Truth Josh Smith is a good player i dont think any of us have denied that esp as a 17th pick overall but here are the keys to why he has no real value. 1: The turnovers is a key b/c he has been in the L long enough to not have some of the types of turnoevers that he has. 2. His attitude that he still has when thing dont go his way like touchs and foul calls. He has to in becoming a vet get past letting stuff like that take him out of games and 3. To me the most important thing is this. He is 6′8 or 6′9 at best and he is a true power foward and its the same postion anotehr 6′9 guy on our team plays. True he can play the 3 but a coach has to make sure he uses him on the block b/c no caoch in the NBA will have a problem with Josh beating them on jump shots b/c he is incosistent still. Sad thing about it is with his foot work he can work out on not only 3’s but 4’s down low. If Josh could get past my 1st and 2nd points i would say i dont care where you play him jus get him on the court but due to those and my 3rd point if we lost Josh it would not be in the end of the world depending on who we get to replace him

superiorblogman

February 15th, 2011
3:23 pm

Section 303

February 15th, 2011
2:47 pm

superiorblogman, I’m going to go out on a thick limb and say that I’ve probably watched twice as many Hawks games as you have over the past 7-8 years. I’m going to bet it is not even close, actually.

Your limb is as broken as your basketball intelligence and brain overall. Since 2003 I have missed 25 games at the most, that would average out to about 3 games a year including the Post Season. Zaza is garbage. In fact, Zaza is the glaring example of everything wrong with this team. He can have a nasty attitude, does not play defense, is inconsistent, overpaid for his production, and cares more about his off court endeavors than he does his profession that affords him that lifestyle, and finally he just is not a good basketball player.

Ra'mon

February 15th, 2011
3:26 pm

K-Dogg, Camby isn’t scheduled to return to action until after the trade deadline. That means no team will be able to see how recovered he really is from the injury. If you remember, at the beginning of his career, Camby spent more time injured than he did playing. So you have to be concerned enough to make sure that he’s capable of contributing again before making such a deal.

Astro Joe

February 15th, 2011
3:31 pm

KevinM, you don’t trade average for horrific I don’t care how frustrated you are with average. Marvin is an NBA caliber player, Thabeet has yet to prove that. No way would any coach trying to win 50+ games and play with the big boys play Thabeet the type of minutes needed to develop. You simply don’t trade proven NBA talent for an NBDL project. Thabeet won’t be developed by the time his rookie contract expires, so then what do you do? Pay him $8M to continue to develop him? No thanks.

Ra'mon

February 15th, 2011
3:44 pm

NO way in the world would I trade Marvin for Thabeet alone. I would consider Mo, Powell, and a draft pick for Mayo (King Baggage) and Thabeet, but not Marvin. Marvin is still arguably the 4th best player on this team. And you’re going to trade him for a guy who wasn’t even productive in summer league? Marvin’s biggest problem is he isn’t Paul or Williams. After a player completes their rookie contract, we should no longer look at them as where they were drafted. After 4 years in the league, draft position means nothing! Marvin would be a great sixth man in the league. And the fact that he’s cheaper, is why I would rather trade Jamal than Marvin. But if you’re going to trade Marvin, at least get someone back who has done something.

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
4:02 pm

Let me know when you get someone who values Marvin and is willing to take on his contract that others are outperforming him at a fraction of what he cost.
He is a Hawk for the next few years, as he is part of the core here. SFs can be found much cheaper than what Marvin does for you.
Ramon, 4th best player on this team? Then he should be starting shouldn’t he and it shouldn’t be in question, should it?
Somehow whether he is here or not, he is not much of an impact for what, 90% of games played? He will have a game or 2 leading the team in scoring, but after that, he breaks down.

So many said Larry could make him more productive……ok.

K-Dogg

February 15th, 2011
4:13 pm

Yeah Ramon thats true but i was just going off of you saying he was done for the year maybe i read what you said wrong…. Yeah him and Kahman are not coming back until the break but i mean to me they are the only bigs on the block right now who i think could help us so unless we pull a rabbit out of our hat i think we may have no choice but to take a cahnce f not we lose Crawford for nothing…

Ra'mon

February 15th, 2011
4:16 pm

K-Dogg, I posted he was out for the year, I was wrong. I thought he would be.

But I think Ben Wallace is a big who’s available who will be serviceable in the playoffs. There’s no way he won’t give us more than what Collins, Etan, or Powell gives us, as well as Zaza.

Ra'mon

February 15th, 2011
4:20 pm

KevinM, just because you’re in the top 5 players of your team doesn’t mean you start necessarily. Other than Joe, Josh, and Al, there’s no one on this team who is clearly, decisively better than Marvin, and that’s sad. Jamal is a better offensive scorer, but other than that, what other areas does he provide more than Marvin? Jamal isn’t a better defender, rebounder, hustle guy, and Marvin folds his towel like an Egyptian prince better than anyone in the league (lol), lol. As I’ve been saying for a while, the problem isn’t with Josh, Joe, or Al. The problem is after those three the drop off in talent is so far, that its too much to over come.

tyger

February 15th, 2011
4:20 pm

Thabeet can be had for Mo Evans, Jeff Teague. His next contract would be that of a backup, not a starter, unless he develops, and if he does great, $8M aint bad at all.

Hawks have to improve without spending money, that’s difficult. You have to find something in the bargain bin, that’s Thabeet. We don’t need him to put up double-doubles. We need him to be BIG, block shots, rebound and hustle. He did it at UConn, he can do it here.

Bottom line is he cant be worse than ZaZa, Collins or Etan. Memphis wants to get rid of him and we want to get rid of Teague. We’ would be swapping big mistake for little mistake.

Moreover, Memphis and Atlanta aren’t parallel. They have Marc Gasol, Zack Randolph and Haddadi down low. We have ZaZa, Collins and Thomas – we need him more than they do. Moreover, Big men develop slower – Dwight Howard wasn’t Superman either his first two years.

This is a free lotto pick for virtually nothing that feels a huge need.

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
4:38 pm

tyger, not to mention we have big men that no one is plucking onto their roster….see Collins and Etan.

And DHoward had big talent, but he also has Ewing every day, and went to Hakeem….you can’t tell me that the former G-town big men alumni group wouldn’t try to work with Thabeet.

Does anyone know who are big man guru is? Tyrone Hill?

Call me crazy, but I would have liked to have heard Ewing’s name instead of Larry roaming the sidelines here…..I know nothing of Ewing’s impact, but he definitely is paying his dues and if he is an assistant, he should be worthy of an interview minimum.

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
4:44 pm

Ramon, I agree with you on the level of talent on this team, and you can’t make a deal in this league unless you give up something of value.
It’s getting tougher every year, but I don’t rank Marvin as a critical piece to the success of this team.
I see Joe and Al as high value, Josh right behind them, and everyone else dispensible. The roster behind JC1 doesn’t have a specialty that can’t be matched by another 1M minimum salary player.
That’s the future of this roster..there won’t be enough money for anyone to go with our 3 captains after the next CBA.

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
4:47 pm

I am reading Amare may miss the ASG this weekend…..

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6124840

You know, that would have been nice to have Smoove on standby to take his place if he couldn’t go…..I’m just saying.

KevinM

February 15th, 2011
4:53 pm

Now call this embarrassing…..Hollinger’s odds of teams making playoffs/NBA Finals…

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds

Can you guess who has the lowest % to make the Finals? This is hilarious…..10 teams better than Larry’s team….we’re just better than Utah.

I don’t think Hollinger likes us.

Rufus1

February 15th, 2011
5:20 pm

new blog

superiorblogman

February 15th, 2011
7:01 pm

Zaza, Mo, and a 2nd rd pick for Thabeet and Sam Young do it yesterday if they will take it.

T. A.

February 15th, 2011
8:26 pm

TRADE JOE JOHNSON & MARVIN WILLIAMS FOR CARMELLO ANTHONY & CHAUNCEY BILLUPS HELP THE TEAM AND ATTENDANCE

T. A.

February 15th, 2011
8:30 pm

IF I WERE LARRY DREW EVERYTIME JOSH SMITH SHOOTS A 3 POINTER I WOULD CALL TIME OUT AND GET IN HIS FACE AND TELL HIM YOU ARE TRYING TO GET ME FIRED

T. A.

February 15th, 2011
8:32 pm

TRADE MARVIN WILLIAMS AND MIKE BIBBY FOR CHAUNCEY BILLUPS AND NA NA THE CENTER FOR DENVER

T. A.

February 15th, 2011
8:42 pm

TO JOSH SMITH LET ME TELL YOU WHAT COACH DREW FORGOT TO TELL YOU EVERY TIMEOUT DONT SETUP OUTSIDE THE 3 POINT LINE YOUR GAME IS GREAT 10 FEET IN FIGHT FOR LOOSE BALLS ,REBOUND AND BLOCK SHOTS DONT TAKE THE JUMPER YOU GOT YOUR BIG CONTRACT RUN THE FLOOR AND YOU WILL BE AN ALLSTAR THE REST OF YOUR CAREER AND 1 MORE THING THE NEXT PLAYER THAT SWINGS THE BALL TO JOSH OUTSIDE THE 3 POINT LINE WILL SIT NEXT TO ME ON THE BENCH

slimjr

February 15th, 2011
8:48 pm

ZaZa is terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ATl

February 16th, 2011
6:08 pm

no trades

ATl

February 16th, 2011
6:16 pm

To everyone reading. M. Bibby is not our problem. He runs the show and doesnt turn the ball over. He might not be flashy but he is a top 12 starting point guard. Our problem is the production from our small forward. M. Evans and M. Williams are not getting it done. Either keep Josh at the SF and start J. Collins, or bring in a productive SF and bring J. Collins off the bench. And last, we should have kept M. Woodson because we are about to play Orlando in the first round on the road and be home watching the second round. M. Woodson improved every year. We headed in the wrong directions. One and done

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