Atlanta Hawks: Is Bibby beat down?
The calendar says Bibby will be 33 in May, so he’s still a young man in the real world. But in NBA terms, it means Bibby is in the twilight of a distinguished career that is at 1013 games (including playoffs) and counting.
The numbers say Bibby’s offensive production and efficiency have fallen off as the season grows longer, even when viewing them in the narrow context of his role as a spot-up shooter. That suggests that Bibby might be wearing down as the season approaches the All-Star break.
Even Bibby, not one to usually give much credence to his age as a limiting factor, acknowledges that he doesn’t quite have the same bounce at this time of year as seasons past.
“It’s different,” he said. “I can definitely feel . . . I am not going to say I feel my age. Because what I still do out there is I’ve catered myself to the roll of taking care of the team and making sure everybody is doing what they need to be doing and making sure they have fun and do what it takes to win.”
L.D. said the video evidence also suggests Bibby is tiring. But he said he has no plans to systemically reduce Bibby’s minutes after they increased from October/November to December to January.
“He may be experiencing a little [fatigue],” he said. “I have been watching a lot of film of him earlier in the season versus now, and clearly you can see a difference in how he’s moving. And his legs may be a little tired. It won’t be a situation of me giving up on him or me really cutting his minutes down. If I cut his minutes down, it will only be because of how the game is going, [if] we are in a pretty good rhythm.”
Drew said Atlanta’s W at Washington was such a case. Bibby sat for the final 17 minutes as L.D. opted to close with a Jamal/J.J./Damien/Marvin/Smoove alignment (sans injured Al).
“In those type situations, those will be the times when he will be limited, especially in the second half,” L.D. said. “But for the most part his minutes will stay consistent.”
Bibby’s outside shooting, meanwhile, is on a downward trend both in terms of his 3-point shooting and his attempts from 16 to 23 feet. He has a knack for getting open for the latter shot type by using pump fakes or a quick step-in after the catch, but the Hoopdate shot location stats show that he’s taking fewer of those attempts and making them less often without the benefit of an assist.
(Complied using data from Hoopdata.com)
Playing 18 games in October/November, Bibby was 38 of 73 on 3-pointers (52.1 percent). He made 19 of 49 attempts from 16 to 23 feet (38.8 percent) with 10 of them (53 percent) assisted.
Playing 17 games in December, Bibby was 33 of 73 on 3-pointers (45.2 percent). He made 24 of 53 attempts from 16 to 23 feet (45.3 percent) with 13 of them (54 percent) assisted.
Playing 13 games in January, Bibby was 26 of 67 on 3-pointers (38.8 percent). He made 4 of 20 attempts from 16 to 23 feet (20 percent) with three of them assisted (75 percent).
Playing three games in February, Bibby is 4 of 15 on 3-pointers (26.7 percent). He has made 0 of 4 attempts from 16 to 23 feet.
Considering his defensive limitations and relative lack of production as a playmaker, Bibby obviously is much less valuable to the Hawks if he’s not making shots at a high clip.
“Everybody looks at it like I am not scoring as much, but I really don’t have to,” Bibby said. “We’ve got three All-Stars [he's counting Josh] and the sixth man of the year. My job is not to score. My main thing I want to do is when that ball makes it around to me, make the shot and kind of spread the floor for them.”
With the recent dip in shooting, Bibby’s season percentage on shots from 16 to 23 feet (38) is now less than the league average (39.4). His 3-point percentage (44) is still well above the league average (36).
Bibby likens his current situation to his time in Sacramento. He was younger then but he played more minutes and carried a bigger offensive burden than he does now.
“You always need a break,” he said. “Everybody always says it isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. It takes a toll on your body. Everybody always sees the glamorous parts. . . . No one gets to see the grind. I’ve been preparing myself for this grind. I am not like I was when I was younger, to where I could go full-fledged practice every day, all day, for nine months straight. I let [Drew] know how I am feeling the next day and stuff like that. Coming from coaches that have played, they understand.”
Injury report
Al, still recuperating from his fall, sat out practice today. He was in the training room so I didn’t get to check with him but he told Ken S. the other night he would play tomorrow against the Sixers.
“I am sure Wally [Blase] will be listening to Al to see how he feels,” L.D. said. “If he feels like he can go, I am sure he will let him go.”
J.J. also didn’t practice because of some tendinitis in his left knee that he termed “no big deal.” He said he will play against the Sixers.
Smoove was limited because of his left knee but he’s expected to play tomorrow, too.
Only Al appears on the Hawks’ injury report.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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184 comments Add your comment
Jesse
February 7th, 2011
8:07 pm
If Teague played with any confidence, and could hit outside shots he’d earn more playing time…. that says a lot about him if LD won’t play him more if Bibby is that tired.
Grandad
February 7th, 2011
8:31 pm
Enter your comments here
J.J.M
February 7th, 2011
8:32 pm
Will we ever find a elite point guard???
Grandad
February 7th, 2011
8:36 pm
O’Brien:
Concerning Bibby and the 2nd half schedule;
I was referring to less back to backs and more home games.
Although I’ve not studied the schedule,
I’m going on what our blog brethren have posted.
As always, I appreciate your input.
cp
February 7th, 2011
8:50 pm
Its time to trade for a pg. Bibby looks about done and LD doesn’t seem to have any confidence in Teague.
Atlanta Fawkers
February 7th, 2011
8:53 pm
His face is.
O'Brien
February 7th, 2011
8:53 pm
Grandad,
The Hawks are 12-4 in the second game of back to backs, so the absence of back to back games in the second half is not necessarily a good thing (imo).
And the Hawks have a brutal stretch coming up that will tell us alot about the Hawks.
Starting next Monday (2/14), Hawks play 7 straight road games including 2 back to backs (@Det, @ Knicks, @ Lakers, @ Suns, @ Warriors, @ Portland, @ Denver).
After that, they come home for 4 straight home games against Bulls, OKC, Knicks and Lakers.
Lots of good basketball games, but at least they will have a good amount at home too.
Atlanta Fawkers
February 7th, 2011
8:56 pm
FYI – Bet on whatever team beats Hawks in the playoffs this year to win it all according to MLB champs (Giants) and NFL champs (Packers). The road to trophy involves beating Atlanta I guess.
Carrlos Lyles
February 7th, 2011
9:15 pm
approaching-perfection.com Atl your pg is coming.. shouts to the Eastside
Ra'mon
February 7th, 2011
9:16 pm
Steve Nash is still the answer in my book. And if it takes JC1 to get him, make it happen. I could easily see Nash coming in. And attempting to trade Mo and change for Barbosa. When you have a point guard like Nash who can facilitate for others, the necessity for ISO specialists is minimized. Imagine Nash and Horford/Josh/Joe running pick and roll during the playoffs. Not to mention the type of mentors Nash and Hill can be on this team. Both of their work ethics has always been great (similar to Joe, Josh, and Al’s). After being a fan of a franchise that always had ‘potential’ and a ‘future’, the NBA is now about the current window. When you give your free agent 120 million dollars, you’re saying you want to win now not later. Everyone said Boston’s window would only be for 2-3 seasons. Yet four seasons later they’re still the team to beat in the league, and can easily have a strong team next year. Detroit dominated for four years. They would’ve kept being formidable in the playoffs if they didn’t take the gamble of trading a facilitator (Billups) for an isolator (Iverson). This summer, the Hawks will NOT be the highest bidder for JC1. And after not negotiating with him all of the off season, he has no reason to show any loyalty to them. At least with Josh and Joe, they extended offers to them the off season before the contract expired. So go ahead and get something for Crawford now. And Nash is a great consolation prize.
Gracie hudson
February 7th, 2011
9:25 pm
I am the biggest mike bibby fan there is.!
The only reason I watch the hawks is because of mike if he wasn’t on the hawks then I would watch him AT ALL.!
So if mike bibby ever reads this just remember I love you! And I’m your biggest fan!!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2011
9:26 pm
Jason Kidd is 37 and he isn’t “beat down”. Just saying…
lifelong Hawks fan
February 7th, 2011
9:35 pm
To the poster championing Amir Johnson, he’s very productive, but he’s also one of the most prolific foulers in the NBA. He can’t stay on the floor to save his life. Factoring in his contract, and he just isn’t worth it.
ag
February 7th, 2011
9:38 pm
I think if they would trade for Nash will be great. Drmary said no expression from Teague…well that goes for most of the guys including Joe. Anyway, the kid plays hard those six minutes. Go to NBA.com and look at his highlights. He has some very nice plays. I was not sold on the guy until I saw he have a near triple double against Cleveland last year, scoring 27 points (in 48 minutes)… Give Bibby the same exact situation, and he would not come close!
jose
February 7th, 2011
9:41 pm
Nash earns 10.3 million per season this year and next season and Grant Hill is 3.5 mil with the same terms. Jamal 10.8 and Mo 2.5 expiring this year. If Phoenix really wants to rebuild, they need # 1 picks and cap space. The Hawks can offer 13.3 mil expiring contracts and their # 1 pick. This is best deal Phoenix will get which will allow them to have 3 # 1 picks and 32 million in cap space. Both teams get what they want. Phoenix can truly rebuild quickly and the Hawks become a real contender.
Finally, trade Teague for the Kings C/F Thompson. The Hawks end up with a PG, SF, and a true back up big man. Moreover, Nash and Hill contracts end at the end of the 2012 season just in time for the D. Howard sweepstakes!
ag
February 7th, 2011
9:47 pm
Okay, after a good preseason, Teague played in the first three games of his career, the last played 18 minutes, scored 12pts on 5-7 shooting. He sank his only trey, had two steal and 3 ast. The next game in Portland he was a DNP. That has been the message his entire career. The last game of the season, he played 48 minutes, 11-10 fg 1-4 3pt 15 ast and 5 rebs for 24 pts. The next 7 games (playoffs Milwaukee) two DNP’s and never played over 7 minutes. Again, WTF message does this kid have. I see why he should not have ANY confidence!
ag
February 7th, 2011
9:48 pm
actually 11-19
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2011
9:50 pm
I’ve been a Teague supporter for most of his time as a Hawk, and I still think he can produce, but I can also see the opposing argument that he hasn’t shown much consistency and hasn’t forced LD’s hand into playing him. So I’m not so caught up on whether or not Teague should play. I do think that at this point to rely on Bibby to play that many minutes, including minutes in crunch time, is a recipe for failure. We saw in last year’s playoffs how the Bucks adjusted to the Hawks’ switching defense and started carving it up. In the playoffs, teams have more time to game plan and are more likely to exploit your weaknesses, no matter how hard you try to hide them. The bottom line is that not only does Bibby continue to be a turnstile on defense but the one consistent offensive contribution he has made (the 3 point shot) is no longer falling, essentially making him a liability on both ends of the floor. With that being the situation, the Hawks need to find a different plan. Whether that means Jamal gets more minutes at the point (which he got against Washington with a fair amount of success), or JC2 gets those minutes, or Teague gets those minutes, or the Hawks make a trade, something needs to happen. If you think Stan Van Gundy or Mike D’Antoni won’t have a plan for attacking Bibby in the playoffs, regardless of how hard the Hawks try to hide him, you’re fooling yourselves.
no justice
February 7th, 2011
9:54 pm
You have to look down to find Teague’s up side.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2011
9:56 pm
As far as Teague, I will say this: if Bibby is making his jump shots at the same clip as or worse than Teague, I really don’t see how Bibby deserves to be on the floor over him, regardless of how passive Teague is. Even if Teague just gives the ball to Joe or Jamal and stands around the entire possession (which is for the most part what Bibby does anyway, unless someone kicks the ball out to him for 3) his presence on the floor alone improves the Hawks defense simply by virtue of Bibby not being on the floor. That’s not an endorsement of Teague, but it is to say that even average, low impact minutes from Teague are at least equivalent to minutes from Bibby when the outside shot is not falling.
ag
February 7th, 2011
10:03 pm
Man, how can you be consistant scoring 24 pts 15 ast, then playing 5 minutes? How many stats are you going to compile in that time frame. Again, for every good game in his career, is followed with limited minutes. This kid has only had two games this season when he played over 20 minutes, each time scoring in double figures. The Boston game he played 25 minutes 18pts 8-11 fg% 3 steals 4 boards 2 ast (4to). The next night he was reward with 15 minutes 5pts 4 ast, then 7 minutes.. He played 22 minutes against Milwaukee, 10pts, 6 ast, the next game 10 minutes. So how can he be consistent when he is not playing consistantly?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2011
10:06 pm
Charlotte beat Boston. Not that Boston is really within reach for the Hawks, but it’s always good to see other East contenders lose.
ag
February 7th, 2011
10:09 pm
Last year, he played 20 minutes in 10 games and averaged 5 ast (most games were scrub time. Imagine what he would do with 35 minutes? The production will surplant Bibby
ILL-Logical
February 7th, 2011
10:41 pm
LD is a rookie head coach and some of the challenges like playing time allocation are proving to be er,challenging.
falconfever
February 7th, 2011
10:43 pm
does anyone remember who mike woodson coached under before coming to atlanta. . . larry brown! meaning point guards dont flurish under larry brown(ask raymond felton or d.j. augustin) brown likes a run the offense type guy who only thinks about scoring when they are wide open like avery johnson or eric snow. It helped one point guard that was chauncey billiups. i guess one out of 10 aint bad. back to my point larry drew coached under woodson so maybe teague will not get a realshot because he is under the larry brown coaching philosphy.
falconfever
February 7th, 2011
10:51 pm
i mean if you say teague at wake he had a swag even as a freshman. he had the green light to do his thing i understand the nba is much more complexed and team oriented but the kid has talent we need a coach to bring out the talents of josh smith and teague. and on josh smith we need to trade him because he has value. and lets face it for whatever reasons we dont attract free agents. Fire rick sund and john drew bring in a young coach like mark jackson who these young guys can relate to. I want to win a championship before i leave this earth and we cant and wont with our gm,hc, and exsisiting roster
falconfever
February 7th, 2011
11:01 pm
ag if you get nash we are still 5th in the east we wont beat chicago because rose will destroy him. i want a championship not home court in the first round. thats why we dont have any because we are content going to the second round of the playoffs.
Rufus1
February 7th, 2011
11:19 pm
ag
That is the problem. People complain he isn’t consistant, but he hasn’t gotten consistant minutes. When he has gotten consistant minutes, he has produced. This is the exact same thing that happen to Law, COACHING INCONSISTANCY…. IT HAS BEEN 7 YEARS OF THE SAME IDEA ABOUT YOUNG PG’S.
Neither LD or Woody wanted a young PG, the only reason they drafted Law was because they passed on CP3 and speedy didn’t workout. They didn’t want to pass on Law and he turned into the next great PG in the league, so they drafted Law to placate the fans.
Now they are giving you the same excuses about Teague, they gave about Law. He isn’t aggressive attacking the rim, he isn’t consistant, he isn’t running the offense…..ONE PROBLEM with his statements.
LD’S OFFENSE IS DESIGNED FOR THE PG TO FLOAT ON THE PERIMETER….that is why Jamal and Bibby take so many 3’s….That is why Bibby gets so many minutes, because he wants the PG to shot 3’s. The only other starting PG in the League of Bibby’s class is FISHER(OLD, Clutch shooter with low production). It isn’t fair to say Teague isn’t agressive, because LD’s offense doesn’t encourage attacking the basket and being agressive to the rim(why do you think Josh spent all offseason on his jump shot and not his low post game)
Teague is a ball dominating PG in the mold of CP3, Drose and Dwilliams(I am not saying he is on their level, just making a ref. to style) He needs the ball in his hand to make plays, Bibby doesn’t.
The only young PG that would get playiing time in LD’s offense is SCurry or JC2….BUT HOW DO YOU TELL ASG YOU NEVER THOUGHT TEAGUE COULD WORK IN YOUR SYSTEM AFTER YOU PROMISED TO DEVELOP HIM.
PS. Bibby wouldn’t be starting for any other team in the league, except MAYBE the Laker(If fisher wasn’t their)
falconfever
February 7th, 2011
11:25 pm
tyrue rufus! how you see what kind of player this guy was in college and then expect him to be avery johnson. Thats poor upper management
falconfever
February 7th, 2011
11:25 pm
i meant so true rufus
falconfever
February 7th, 2011
11:32 pm
i dont know san antonio’s gm is but we need to offer him the world to come to atlanta i mean look at there roster parker ginobili duncan hill blair all draft picks. thats un heard of.
slimjr
February 7th, 2011
11:35 pm
Teague is ready to take over!!! Give him the darn ball LD. What are you afraid of? This kid has a ton of talent let HIM PLAY MEANINGFUL minutes now…Bibby has lost 5 steps in the past 2 month. Some athletes lose it gracefully over time and some loose it over night. Bibby is the latter..Sad but true..Give the kid the ball now don’t wait, you have come to a crossroad with your pg’s LD. Its time to earn your paycheck and show who’s boss…
Freshfromatl
February 7th, 2011
11:36 pm
Najeh,
You obviously don’t read the Dallas blogs lol (althought there is no reason for you to). However, I said that just to let you know that they complain about Jason Kidd downfalls just as much as we do Bibby’s.
KevinM
February 7th, 2011
11:40 pm
Superior, add Billups to your list once Melo gets close to being dealt.
You probably have to take Harrington to get him though….that’s a chunk of change!
Sund isn’t that creative nor will he ever admit the core has weaknesses,
And GrandD, what does Sund have that Toronto can’t wait to do a deal and dump Amir? NBA.com has him listed at 6′9″.
Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2011
11:43 pm
Fire Sund
slimjr
February 7th, 2011
11:46 pm
“Starting next Monday (2/14), Hawks play 7 straight road games including 2 back to backs (@Det, @ Knicks, @ Lakers, @ Suns, @ Warriors, @ Portland, @ Denver).
After that, they come home for 4 straight home games against Bulls, OKC, Knicks and Lakers.”
WOW! The Hawks may go 2-9 in that stretch or 3-8?? It’s going to be crazy!!! I feel for LD already. You talk about baptism by fire….Reminder the Hawks lost to New Orleans by 41 on the road last month!!OUCH……………………….Yikes…….The party’s over…………………………..
Freshfromatl
February 7th, 2011
11:48 pm
Also,
I find it amazing that while everyone praises the Bull and give them all of this glory. No one notices that they play in easily the worst division in the NBA.
Chicago – 34/15
Indiana – 21/27
Milwaukee – 19/30
Detroit – 19/32
Cleveland – 8/43
Now, I point out that Chicago is 11-0 in their weak division (they will have a sub 500 road record if they lose to Portland tonight). But someway, somehow, Chicago is still a great, championship contending team SMH. I’m willing to bet, they are still the 5th best team in the East. But no one will notice.
Freshfromatl
February 7th, 2011
11:50 pm
*Bulls*
slimjr
February 7th, 2011
11:52 pm
Who knows the Hawks could easily slip to the six spot in the next four brutal weeks with their up coming sched….
fayncdawg
February 7th, 2011
11:55 pm
Look at it like this: Nash is 37 with the same All-Star stats as he had five years ago. Stockton maintained his All-Star stats throughout most of his playing career (which extended far longer than 33 years of age ie Bibby’s age). Truth of the matter is that a significant drop in production at the mere age of 33 is not good at all. I mean, Bibby’s playing style is not exactly mistaken for DWade’s, so the man should not be wearing down. He just needs to get his mind and body in better shape. Or maybe the Hawks really need to trade for the 37 year old whose mind and body are in far better shape than Bibby’s!
Freshfromatl
February 7th, 2011
11:57 pm
Slimjr,
Who knew the Bulls could easily get exposed from playing in a week division?
Freshfromatl
February 7th, 2011
11:58 pm
*weak*
slimjr
February 8th, 2011
12:06 am
I give the Bulls credit for making aggressive moves in the off season to become competitive again…The Hawks core have been together much longer than the Bulls core so whats their excuse for being 8-11 against above .500 opponents?? Also the Bulls did not lose to anybody by an embarrassing 41 freaking points….Just Nuts……GO HAWKS!!!
drmaryb (*_*)
February 8th, 2011
12:31 am
The Touchables!
Superiorblogman
Thks for that list available players. How come there are no Hawks on that list? Haven’t our bloggers traded them all a thousand times a thousand diufferent ways to a thousand other teams? LOL! I’m surprised or not, about how few PG’s and Centers are on that list that anybody wants.
Rip Hamilton would run well in the motion. But, he is way too expensive at that age. Camby and Pryzbilla are too old and Camby too pricey. Biedriens could help us, but we have to get rid of some people that nobody wants.
SAS
February 8th, 2011
12:34 am
to falconsfever-i dont know san antonio’s gm is but we need to offer him the world to come to atlanta i mean look at there roster parker ginobili duncan hill blair all draft picks. thats un heard of
THE GM OF SPURS IS THE ONE AND ONLY POPOVICH.NO COMMENT…
AS FAR AS THE HAWKS,I LOVE NASH AND BILLUPS BUT THEY ARE TO OLD AND THEY ARE NOT COMING TO ATL.THE ONLY CHANCE WE HAVE IS TO TRY TO BRING STEPHEN CURRY(WARRIORS).I’VE HEARD A RUMOR THAT THEIR COACH WANTS TO KEEP ONLY MONTA ELLIS,SO… RICK SUND GO ,MAKE IT HAPPEND.DO SOMETHING.THIS TEAM IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE WITHOUT A TRY PG.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 8th, 2011
12:42 am
Portland is about to beat Chicago, bringing the Hawks to within 1.5 games of the 3 seed.
RLP
February 8th, 2011
12:42 am
Chicago has once again lost on the west coast putting their road record below .500. Final score is 109-103.
SAS
February 8th, 2011
12:50 am
NAJEH,WHAT DO U THINK,SINCE WE CAN’T GET A DICENT C RIGHT NOW WITHOUT GIVING UP A GOOD PLAYER,WHY DON’T WE GO FOR A PG NOW AND GET A C NEXT SUMMER(FREE AGENT)?
Worldwide Clyde
February 8th, 2011
12:55 am
All them DNP’s for Teague are taking its toll on Bibby. Told you it would come back to haunt you Drew.
Worldwide Clyde
February 8th, 2011
12:57 am
Trying to win every game has worn Bibby out by the all-star break. SMGDH. Woody would be proud of you Drew.