Mavs 102, Hawks 91
Greetings, all-
Wow. Sensing some hostility here. (Kidding) This one must have been a frustrating one to watch for you all, particularly since you’ve been seeing the same thing happening.
- Bad shot selection killed the Hawks’ chances in the fourth. It’s hard to understand. Once Dallas got some momentum going, just like in the Milwaukee game (and others), the Hawks started pressing. Among the most galling numbers is Al Horford taking two shots in the fourth.
- Hawks scoring by quarter – 24, 25, 29, 13.
- Shooting percentage by quarter – 57.1, 52.6, 42.9, 26.7.
- Hawks had 46 points in the paint on 30 shots through three quarters, then four and five, respectively, in the fourth.
- I asked Larry Drew what he took from the game: “Something very similar we took from the Milwaukee game. We played, I thought, three good quarters and then in the fourth quarter we had a collapse. Shot selection was not very good. It just comes down to getting tougher in the fourth quarter. You’ve got to do the things that are going to assure you victory.”
- Horford: “I don’t think it’s discouraging. On the road, it’s always tough and you have to play the right way and do everything right to win and we just had a little slippage the last two outings.”
- Josh Smith: “We just had a couple careless turnovers and a couple of little touch fouls. It got them in the bonus early and they were able to utilize the line a little bit.”
- Joe Johnson: “It wasn’t anything they were doing. We had total control of the game and then in the fourth it just got out of hand.”
- Hawks fall to 11-4 on back end of back-to-backs. Two road losses in a row after six wins in a row. Have lost six of last seven in Dallas.
- I thought Jeff Teague gave really solid minutes, particularly defensively against the pick and roll. Johnson did whatever he wanted against DeShawn Stevenson but somehow managed to get to the free-throw line once.
- An ineffectual night for Mike Bibby, who was in foul trouble most of the night to boot.
- Seven different Mavs players scored in double figures. The Hawks had four.
- Jamal Crawford is struggling. Since an 8-for-15 night in the road win over Miami – 5-for-13 against New Orleans, 4-for-13 against Charlotte, 4-for-11 against Milwaukee, 5-for-16 against New York and 4-for-12 against Dallas.
- Mark Cuban’s thoughts on the Atlanta Spirit re-financing debt on Philips, which made it easier for owners to tap into the NBA’s credit facility and also for the team to be sold:
“Very smart. It cleans things up ownership-wise. It gives them flexibility to put their own imprint on (the team) and not look over their shoulder.”
On whether responsibility for filling the arena ultimately falls on the owners:
“It’s always your responsibility when it’s your team. I think Atlanta’s a good market. What I’ve learned, though, is it takes time for fans to trust. That’s why you see teams that make the big turnaround and the fans don’t immediately fill the building because it’s basically fool’s gold. It takes time.”
Interesting assessment, I thought. You could argue it both ways with the Hawks — One, you could say the Hawks have been building for six years and have progressively gotten better, so there’s reason to put more faith in the team and show up. Or, and something tells me this is the view many of you hold, the way the team has gotten shellacked in the playoffs the last two years, on top of the team’s history, screams “fool’s gold.”
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82 comments Add your comment
george
January 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
drmaryb,
You wrote in one of your blogs about the NBA 13 player minimium roster requirement. My hope as well as every other Hawks fan is that they about to make a trade. If the Hawks make a two for one player deal maybe they will of only carry 14 or 13 players in order to stay out of the luxury tax.
Example:
LAC Kaman (12.9 mil/2 years) for Marvin (7.5 mil/4years) and Bibby(5.5mil/2years) or ZaZa(4.4mil/ 3years)
Nets D. Harris (12mil/3years) for Jamal(10.9mil expiring) and Mo(2.5mil expiring) or # 1 pick
Simply, it makes no sense for this team to stand the course and allow the only piece with trade value Jamal to complete season, lose early in playoffs, and not be able to resign him. Again hopefully, filling the roster to 15 is a move in preparation of a trade.
Do you understand, now!
Sautee
January 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
Ken (or MC),
If you get a chance, could you ask LD about why we don’t run the motion offense more in crunch time? That seems to be when you’d MOST want to run it, since “everybody on the floor” would be a threat to score, as LD put it in the off season. Doesn’t that put more pressure on the defense than trying to guard one or two players with a favorable matchup?
But it seems that when things get tight, we revert to ISO’s all too much.
I’d love to know LD’s answer to that question. Thank you.
kwooden1
January 30th, 2011
3:16 pm
What I saw last night was a better defensive game from Dallas in the 4th quarter. The HAWKS didn’t run their offensive super effectively but Dallas made big shots. Haywoods offensive rebounding early in the 4th really hurt, especially with Dallas making shots. I think LD will have to consistently put Collins in the game against athletic 7 footers opposed to Zaza. Zaza needs to have either Horford or Smoove on the court with him, because boxes out pretty well but needs help. Also I think LD needs to use the Bibby and Jamal lineup very little in the 4th, especially with Jamal struggling a little bit. Overall the HAWKS got outplayed in the 4th, so they just need to keep working to get better.
GO HAWKS!
Ken Sugiura
January 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
O’Brien, I may use that statistic. interesting.
shake&break
January 30th, 2011
3:42 pm
The issue is nit JJ. Some continue to use his salary as the reason the Hawks cannot make any moves. Let’s say JJ takes $25 million less. What other real difference maker was the Hawks going to get for let’s say 4 years $25-30 million. The answer is nobody. You would get a average role players in today’s NBA. What else can JJ do than what he did last night and for that the month of January? People say look at Kobe, look at Wade, look at Carmelo. Well, I can remember when Kobe was asking to be traded from L.A. before he got Gasol and Bynum. Now he has Odom, Fisher, Bynum, Gasol, Artest, Barnes, etc. Where was D. Wade at last year without Shaq or Lebron? Melo wants to be traded. Enough said.
My point, stop whining Hawks fan over JJ’s contract, No other player of his caliber was ever going to Atlanta. The real issues is that the current roster of players the Hawks have at key positions is ineffective. The Hawks have no point guard and no center, with no small forward when Marvin is out. The bench is dependent on a streaky jump shooters/
Therefore, your real beef is with the lack of production from the current players. Why not examine their salary and their effectiveness the way everybody does Joe. If so, you would likely realize the issue is not Joe’s salary. It is the collective salary of Bibby, Marvin, Zsa Zsa, Powell, Teague, JC1, Josh (sometimes) and Mo that really hurt you. This is on management and the ineffective players.
O'Brien
January 30th, 2011
4:06 pm
Ken Sugiura,
I’m sure you’ll double check the numbers, but this is what I found.
At Orlando, 19
Versus Utah, 17
At Miami, 16
At Detroit, 19
At N.O., 15
At OKC, 15
Versus N.O., 14
At Bucks, 15
At Dallas, 13.
All losses. When I get the chance, I will see how many points the other team scored in the fourth quarters mentioned above.
And I think Sautee’s question is a good tie in. In the fourth quarter, we tend to go away from what worked the entire game, and we run a lot of ISOs, which has not worked, and take a lot of bad jumpers.
It’s like when the going gets tough, we revert to what we know, which unfortunately, is ISO JJ.
I look forward to hearing LD’s reply.
O'Brien
January 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
Ken Sugiura,
Another follow up question is do the Hawks have a statistician on staff? I think numbers tell a lot, so it could be beneficial to have someone on staff (even if they work from home, or HQ) to analyze numbers, and give to LD.
I would think it would be important for LD to know that Josh’s FG% and 3 pt% have been on a steady decline since November (and there is also eFG% info), they could look at how many shots does Al take when we win, compared to how many shots he takes when we lose, where on the floor does Jamal have the most success, how does one player shoot from 16-23 feet compared to other distances etc.
Alot of info in numbers, so I was wondering if the Hawks utilize the numbers like some other franchises do (Rockets, Oakland A’s are 2 examples that come to mind).
Jordan
January 30th, 2011
4:32 pm
Just out of curiosity, did anyone else not like the strategy that the Hawks used last night against the Mavericks? I know a lot of people will say that the fourth quarter was the main reason why we lost, but I just felt like from the first half we were going to run into trouble if we continued to use the same strategy that we had used in the beginning. It was just too predictable and Joe was going to be able to score all night with that much defensive attention. Maybe I’m the only one who feels this way, but I thought that we were bound to lose with the way we played. I felt like it was a very dangerous game we played on the offensive end. Our attack was way too one-dimensional.
Jordan
January 30th, 2011
4:34 pm
I mean to say “Joe was *not* going to be able to score all night…” in my last post.
Raveesh
January 30th, 2011
5:01 pm
Jim O’Brien was fired today. Roy Hibbert should be happy about that. LOL
Buddy Grizzard
January 30th, 2011
6:41 pm
“Sorry man, but if you think that Lou Williams and Monta Ellis are PGs then your talent evaluation is no better than that of the Hawks.” – Sautee
So what you are saying is Ellis and Williams are undersized shooting guards? Ok fine. Salim Stoudamire was an undersized shooting guard. Who does he start for?
KevinM
January 30th, 2011
7:01 pm
I am tired of the statement that the starters are playing too many minutes. Well, guess what? They should be able to play the majority of the minutes. They should be able to be more consistent than they are…why the 4th quarter went awry? Not one person on that roster could tell you or won’t tell you publicly.
The team that is constructed here is limited, has peaked, and the 07 playoffs were the last time there was real energy behind a team throughout a playoff series.
Dallas dropping Pav…they are looking for a bigger fish to take a run to the top tier. They aren’t going to settle. They have a hole or 2 to fill as well. We match up very well with them, but in no way should we just fall apart the way we did last night. That was an electric atmosphere to go up against.
Here’s to getting back to more stable game playing and not so much guessing when we will fall apart.
You look at Chicago, you see a more consistent team…we know why they’re consistent too…the one guy has the ball in his hands the majority of the time…we don’t have it, we aren’t close to that, and we will continue to struggle until we find it. A POINT GUARD!
How many times does it need to be said on this blog? Sund and Larry, you guys are dumb and blind if you don’t find one for the playoff run.
You deserve what you get, and I hope the fans in attendance let you hear it when you see guys run up and down and around your attempt of a PG led team.
This team needs a leader….a difference maker. Jason Kidd makes us look slow….how is that possible?
rusty
January 30th, 2011
7:11 pm
I like it how the people on this blog constantly ignore what often happens in the 4th quarter,what happens is that jj try’s to take over & our motion offense grinds to a complete stop & we have no continunity.
rusty
January 30th, 2011
7:13 pm
We need a point guard to be handling our offense not Joe eating the cloak up with his dribbling
Ken Strickland
January 30th, 2011
8:15 pm
I’ve read numerous comments that made an issue of Bibby’s leadership, and his ability to run the OFF. Yet, the team has lost more than its share of gms where players like AHorford and MWilliams were getting it done, then suddenly get shut out in the 4th quarter. Both the Bibby and LDrew should be blamed for this. The PG is the HC on the floor. He controls the ball, the OFF, and calls the plays that determine which player gets the chance to score.
If Horford if producing and gets only 2 shots in the 4th quarter, it falls on MBibby for doing a piss poor job of calling his number and involving him in the OFF, as well as LDrew’s for not getting in Bibby behind. Productive players often get shut out in the 4th quarter because Bibby doesn’t do the things most PG’s do. He is too willing to give the ball up to JJ or Jamal, who usually calls a play for themselves, or just go ourright ISO, while Bibby floats around the 3pt line hoping for a chance to launch a 3. I certainly hope you Bibby supporters don’t think this is an example of his leadership, or ability to effectively run an OFF.
If your PG is going to shut a productive teammate out in the 4th quarter, then he’d better take over the scoring load himself, and producing only 3 pts and 2 assists in 22.58mins won’t get it done. LDrew is playing Bibby heavy mins and he’s starting to wear down, while taking the team down with him.
Ken Sugiura
January 30th, 2011
8:58 pm
O’Brien- thanks. I checked and you were right. and to answer your other question, the Hawks don’t have a statistician on staff in the way other teams do. i think staff members, like members of the PR staff, will do some statistical analysis.
Doggy Dad
January 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
Bad coaching lost the game. LD left the reserves in too long, and when the starters came back they didn’t run the offense. To much one on one. Zaza is useless. Since Dallas is in need of a small forward, maybe we can package Marvin and Zaza for Brendan Haywood and a rack of balls.
O'Brien
January 30th, 2011
9:18 pm
Thanks for the response Ken.
If members of the PR staff are doing statistical analysis, I hope they are better at stats than they are at PR.
James
January 30th, 2011
9:18 pm
Ken Strickland,
Excellent point about shutting out producing players down the stretch. I agree. That is an issue that is one Bibby and L.D. I’ve noticed this happening over and over, but what bothers me the most is that no one seems to even attempt to mention the issue. It simply continues night-in and night-out. The lack of a true playmaker and floor leader at the PG position really hurts us in many ways. It not only hurts our shot distribution, but it hurts our offensive continuity, it hurts our offensive efficiency, and it even harms our team chemistry. Chemistry is not going to develop when you offense revolves around 1-2 players carrying the entire load, while the other players simply watch. One of my biggest hopes is that L.D. addresses and makes a conscious effort of correcting this issue. Because unlike the recurring problems on the defensive end that come along with playing Bibby and Jamal together, the problems that we have on the offensive end can be corrected without a personnel change.
O'Brien
January 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Ken Strickland,
When asked about Teague’s play and Bibby’s minutes, this is what LD said to Jeff Schultz on 1/27/11;
When asked about Teague, Drew admitted, “I had hoped he would be further along. So we’ve had to go with what’s been good to us. Mike is up there in age but he’s still been pretty productive.”
Drew said he’s resting Bibby enough that he’s not overly concerned about the player wearing down in the second half and in the postseason.
When asked about defenses breaking down the Hawks, he said, “It does start [at point guard], but most of our breakdowns on top will be off the pick and roll. … From a breakdown standpoint, it’s certainly the head of the snake for us. We have to have ball containment. But that’s true with everybody on the perimeter.”.
It doesnt sound like he is concerned about Bibby breaking down, and it sounds like he will win or lose with Bibby doing what he does.
Buddy Grizzard
January 31st, 2011
12:10 am
“It sounds like he will win or lose with Bibby doing what he does.” – O’Brien
Sounds like we all better get ready for the Hawks to lose in the first round then. The only reason we squeaked our way out of the first round last year is because Andrew Bogut was out for the series. Teague played well against Dallas. Developing Teague is the Hawk’s only chance to have a point guard with NBA speed on the floor in the playoffs. Nobody is going to trade a starting point guard to the Hawks.
Ken Strickland
January 31st, 2011
4:13 am
OBRIEN-Maybe it’s time he started concerning himself with Bibby breaking down, because he’s certainly not producing on either end of the court. Whenever Drew has decided to use Teague it’s been for DEF purposes, which proves he recognizes Bibby’s DEF is a problem, even if he chooses to say otherwise. And with Bibby’s production dropping to 9.7PPG and 3.7APG for the season, due to him producing only 6PPG and 3.1APG over the last 5gms, Drew certainly isn’t getting enough OFF production to justify playing him an average of 30.3MPG.
Teague has demonstrated an ability to score, generate more assists, and get to the FT line better than Bibby if given anywhere close to Bibby’s MPG. While some are fond of saying Teague can’t shoot, the facts proves otherwise. Bibby/Teague-FG% .445/.425, 3PFG% .455/.353. Teague’s overall shooting percentages are very respectable, especially for a player geting limited and inconsistent MPG. Bibby’s FTM/A and FT% per gm are .6/.9 and .65 respectively, while Teague’s FTM/A and FT% are .9/1.1 and FT% .81 respectively.
Teague makes as many FT’s per gm as Bibby attempts. Compared to Bibby, who’s playing over 2.5 time as many mins, or 18.4 more PPG, Teague’s numbers actually aren’t all that bad, and shows he can exceed Bibby’s overall production if given the opportunity and increased mins.
O'Brien
January 31st, 2011
7:08 am
Props to Kevin Durant calling out Chris Bosh.
Said Durant “Just because Bosh is on a good team now, he thinks he can talk trash.” Kevin went on to add “There are alot of fake tough guys in this league, and Bosh is one of them.”
Mike is back
January 31st, 2011
8:24 am
Ken_Sug, I would interested to know why Twin get such inconsistent minutes, Clearly the Hawks are a more balance team, when he is on the floor.
Zaza, alone with weak Perimeter Defense spells doom every time…the very second Zaza comes in the game…THE LANE OPEN UP…teams know they can attack him…why does LD not use all SIX of Twin’s fouls when he’s playing teams with Bigs…Heck, I even seen Twin finished strong at the rack…with the two hand flush…LD can weigh more production out of Twin…he would give him more burn.
Case point…On the Dunk by Shawn Marion that gave the Mavs a huge surge…Twin would have took a physical foul and put Marion on the line…whether the Dude struggles…because of his awkward shot…it gets ole watching Zaza get dominated in the post.
IT’S SIMPLE…LD sticks with poor rotations way to looooooooooooooooooooooong. You can see the game slipping away from Hawks…as soon too many of wrong personnel in the game together…however, by the time LD react with the right personnel changed…it’s too late.
Like I said before…that’s when LD looks eerily like his predecessor…or over matched in the game.
Ken Strick, Teague finally demonstrated the mindset necessary to gain some PT…thus far that hasn’t been the case…hopefully, he can duplicate that performance with more consistency.
slimjr
January 31st, 2011
9:26 am
Yes the Front line has been getting shut down in the 4th for years?? The Hawks guard play have been covering for the bigs lack of 4th quarter output consistently…Come playoff time the ish gets exposed for what it is. An unbalanced offensive squad..This is the GM’s job to fix! Not the coach..He uses what he’s given..Also the front line is having an awful time rebounding the ball.28th in rebounding.. Brutal……………..
Sund=31+ yrs. yawn………………………………………………………………………….
slimjr
January 31st, 2011
9:32 am
I wonder if LD realizes his pt guard issues are coming to a head or crossroad? He better get some balls and increase teagues minutes BIGTIME!!. Bibby looks more and more each day like he’s got very little left in the tank………….
O'Brien
January 31st, 2011
11:06 am
Mike is Back,
Co-sign. Twin should get more of ZaZa’s PT. This was how the fourth quarter started against the Mavs;
Zaza Pachulia was called for a three-second violation . Two possessions later, guard Jamal Crawford lost the ball trying to split a double team. Pachulia missed from seven feet. Pachulia got his shot blocked.
So ZaZa was involved (negatively) on 3 of the Hawks first 6 possessions in the fourth. That should never be the case.
Sherewshevsky
January 31st, 2011
12:18 pm
Tired of the excuses for mental errors.
Tremaine
January 31st, 2011
12:44 pm
shake&break, Lebron, Dwade and Kobe are closers. Dwade got his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Of course people are going to talk about Joe Johnson contract because he is overpaid.
kwooden
January 31st, 2011
12:53 pm
Papa Report:
22 pts
2 reb
10-15 from free-throw line.
He’s looking a lot better over his last few games as a starter, he really attacks the basket.
Mike is back
January 31st, 2011
2:33 pm
OB, I can’t count the number of times where leads evaporate or teams go on a runs with Zaza in the game. However, I’m sure that is not lost on LD.
julius
February 1st, 2011
11:49 am
OK once again I will say this the Hawks coach come on what is this guy thinking, trade bibby for some socks, pachulia for some shorts, mo evans for some towels, and marvin maybe some used shoes? WHAT WE NEED IS A PG AND A CENTER THAT CAN PLAY DEFENSE AND MORE MORE THING LETS MOVE THE BALL AROUND.