Mavs-Hawks game thread
Greetings, all-
Hope you’re well. This is going to be brief, as I gotta crank out some notes before game time. Some notes…
1) Hawks going with regular lineup, with Mo Evans in for Marvin Williams, serving a two-game suspension.
2) Larry Drew said the key defensively is slowing down Dallas’ transition game, saying the team has to “build a wall” to prevent the Mavericks, specifically Jason Kidd, from attacking the rim on the break. Al Horford mentioned defending the pick-and-roll.
3) Drew said that Williams was in a great state of mind this morning. He’s watching the game at the team hotel.
4) Horford had some words in response to Amare Stoudemire’s post-game caution to Horford to calm down after he got the crowd going as Stoudemire shot free throws, that “he’s not that type of player.” Basically, he said that he’ll do whatever it takes to win, so, yes, he is that type of player.
5) I asked Drew about Marvin pushing him during the fracas. Drew: “I’ve been in the weight room. I didn’t feel anything.”
6) On the Mavs’ bench assisting Rick Carlisle: Terry Stotts.
7) I asked Mark Cuban a few questions about Hawks ownership. Interesting, but not headline-grabbing. I’ll post afterwards.
I probably won’t be able to comment much, given the late start, but will try to jump on occasionally. Enjoy the game.
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375 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
January 29th, 2011
11:19 pm
Hawks have lost 18 games so far this season. Out of those 18 losses, there have been 9 games where we failed to score more than 19 points in the fourth.
At Orlando, 19
Verses Utah, 17
At Miami, 16
At Detroit, 19
At N.O., 15
At OKC, 15
Verses N.O., 14
At Bucks, 15
At Dallas, 13.
We cannot win games where we struggle to score in te fourth, especially since our defense is horrible.
This is very similar to what happened to the hawks last year.
Melvin
January 29th, 2011
11:26 pm
Mavs had 7 players scored in double figures tonigh…SMH
Avery
January 29th, 2011
11:30 pm
You have to admit, as bad as Bibby is, he’s one of the few guys on the team who passes the ball to Horford for shots. Whenever Horford sets a pick for Bibby, Bibby almost always passes the ball back to Horford for a nice pick-and-pop jumper that he typically converts. No other guard on the team does that. Whenever Al sets a pick for Jamal, Jamal is almost guaranteed to take the shot himself, regardless of whether it is a good shot or not. Joe, most of the time, will just continue to dribble even with a pick and ignores the pick half of the time. Teague is too confused at this point to know what to do, and we never really set picks for Mo Evans. Even if bibby sucks at defending, at least when he’s on the court, there’s a chance that we might get a shot for someone else other than Joe or Jamal when the offense is struggling. Bibby was bad tonight, but if there’s one thing he does well, it’s run the pick and pop, which was nearly nonexistent tonight. One of the biggest problems we had was ignoring Horford on the offensive end in the first half, and for the majority of the game. By the time Horford finally got shots in the game, he had no rhythm going because he barely even touched the ball on the offensive end at times.
I absolutely hate when Drew plays Jamal at the point. Who in the world would do that. I’d rather gamble with Teague at the point than Jamal. Jamal is not a point guard. His first instinct is to score, and most of the time, when he gets the ball he’s going to shoot it. You can’t run a motion system with Joe and Jamal as your backcourt. It’s not going to work 90% of the time. Drew really needs to realize that. As much as Drew is “disappointed” in Teague, it doesn’t hurt as any more to have Teague at the point than it does to have Jamal there. If you are going to play Jamal, it should be exclusively at the 2 on this team. The offense looked horrid tonight. If it weren’t for Joe converting on a lot of those isolation plays, we might have lost the game by 20+ points. Bibby being out makes a difference, since he is one of the only guards on the team who is not a black hole when it comes to offense. Personally, I’d prefer for him to be on the bench in favor of a better point guard, but Drew just doesn’t trust Teague yet, and no one else is available to play the point. So, we get stuck with Jamal and his bad shots to complement the JJ isolation plays. Anyone who knows the game of basketball could tell that the Hawks were going to lose this game if they kept up the same poor strategy. I’m sick of hearing about this “motion offense”. It’s nothing more than a gimmick. When it’s winning time, this “motion” is nowhere to be found.
mackandflow
January 29th, 2011
11:37 pm
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?4931-Mike-Bibby-s-defense-sucks.
whateva, byebyebibby
Fred
January 29th, 2011
11:37 pm
We need to get a true alpha-dog point guard that knows what he’s doing. We need a confident point guard that knows how to run the team. A guy who will look at Drew and say “F-ck you, you dumb b!tch. I’m going to run this team the way it should be run.” A guy who knows how to get the ball to the bigs who knows how to run actual plays. That will probably never happen though, since the Hawks management is basically a gutless group of cowards with no urge to improve the team at all.”
Texas Hawk
January 29th, 2011
11:39 pm
Look I was at this game and I am pissed!! He should first of all NOT put Bibby back in the game Teague was playing very well. I think they put Josh Smith on the bench too early near the end of the 3rd quarter. After the steal and dunk by Josh, he was starting to get into the game but NOPE they put him on the bench. Now in the 4th QTR when the Mavs went on that mini-run. I think the coach waited too long to call a timeout and put Johnson, Hartford and Smith back in the game. What pissed me off the most was that BIBBY was a no-show in this game but TEAGUE was holding down Barea and helped us make a run in this game. When is this guy going to learn, STAY WITH THE HOT HAND!! Bibby had done NOTHING for 3 qtrs!!!
Mack Mel
January 29th, 2011
11:45 pm
I hope everyone can see clearly now that we definitely need a point guard. At this point, pretty much any point would be an upgrade, as long as they have playmaking ability. Even if we get a PG like nash who can’t defend, it’s still a huge upgrade, since it will solve our problems of Horford never getting enough touches, Josh taking too many threes, our guards isolating too much, etc., etc. We’ll still have issues on defense, but our offense would improve, which would help us our overall. I’m totally fed up with our garbage guards that we try to get to play the point for us. Our team is so weak at the PG position, we’d probably have a better chance of winning with Smith or Horford playing the point. Both of them defend the perimeter better than Bibby and are typically responsible for more assists. That’s how big of a joke our team is at the PG position.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 29th, 2011
11:54 pm
Nash is just as bad as Bibby on D, but he is one of the great offensive point guards of all time and hasn’t really lost much off his game. At least the Hawks would be keeping up with other teams if Nash was on the floor, instead of going isolation like they have done the last three 4th quarters.
Rufus1
January 29th, 2011
11:59 pm
Wide open shots…
When Bibby and Jamal miss open jump shots, they are Worthless.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 30th, 2011
12:00 am
“Kidd is still in the league although not as quick is because he is a great passer. He is one of those players that can play for a long time since his game isnt based on athletic ability same was as paul pierce, grant hill, kurt thomas are still playing is. Bibby in his prime can always score but was able to score of the dribble but never was a great passer. Since he cannot score of the dribble anymore and isnt quick and is now a spot up shooter his deficiencies are much worse ”
I see your point, but Kidd at his peak was also very reliant on his quickness and athleticism. At one point you could have made a good argument that he was the fastest point guard in the league and the best defensive point guard in the league. In fact, at his peak he was arguably over-reliant on his quickness because his jumper was below average. The man is five years older than Bibby and has had a microfracture surgery and he is still at least able to keep his man in front of him. If Bibby was merely a mediocre defender I don’t think it would be a huge deal. The fact that Sekou could step in and play D as well as him is the real problem.
The point is, Kidd has reinvented his game to a major extent and has kept up his conditioning — two things Bibby hasn’t done. Seeing what Kidd has managed to do, I am not so inclined to let Bibby off the hook for his lack of athleticism as some have done.
Jerome
January 30th, 2011
12:05 am
I don’t care how bad Woodson was, he wasn’t worse than Drew. Drew is no better than Woodson. In fact, if you look at the stats, he’s even worse than Woodson. Defensively, sometimes it looks like we are improving, but them we regress, so I can’t even say that we’ve improved on defense. Meanwhile, we have declined on offense with our new pathetic excuse for a motion system. How do people think that we are going to go anywhere with Drew? Honestly, what improvement do you see? We probably won’t even have a record as good as last season, and in the playoffs, once we play a good team, we might as well have Woodson on the sideline once it becomes winning time. In the fourth quarter, it will just be pure isolation. All Drew has done is steal some of the same plays that Woodson used and call them a “motion offense”
Larry Drew is such a joke. I remember when he we went all MLK jr. on us and talked about his vision of having “everyone on the court as a threat on the offensive end”. What B.S. that was. The only thing the players are threatening is the chance of winning the game. This was the most one-dimensional team performance I’ve seen in a long, long team. Not even the Cavs looked this bad last year when Lebron used to do everything. At least Mo Williams, Antwan Jamison and Shaq got to shoot the ball too. JJ is not Lebron, he’s not even close. He’s not going to win a game by himself, and that a poor approach to use. If you go into a good opposing team’s arena and actually think that you are going to beat them by isolating your shooting guard against their defense in 1 vs. 3, 4, or 5 situations, you’re an idiot. Your just going to lose. I cannot stress how much I hate this guy. I hate the fact that I’m helpless in terms of helping the team improve, otherwise I’d do all that was in my power to get rid of Drew and put Bibby on the bench where he belongs, meanwhile pursuing a real coach and a real PG.
Eric S.
January 30th, 2011
12:11 am
I’ve got to agree with superiorblogman, Jerome, and others and say that Drew is the worst NBA head coach in the league right now. Most of the bad teams lose because of their players, but we lose because of our coaching. That would never happen on an actual contending team. I pose a challenge to you bloggers:
Name me five current head coaches in the NBA who are significantly worse than Drew.
lp
January 30th, 2011
12:14 am
only on this blog can you score 27 pts shoot over 50% and be criticized.
rusty
January 30th, 2011
12:21 am
Why do we fall apart in the 4th. It’s because our great hero jj plays iso Joe,holds the ball to long,dribbles to much,eats the cloak up & takes forced shots, completely screws up all team play. I know you guys will say he had a great game. We never will anywhere with Joe.
rusty
January 30th, 2011
12:23 am
When he plays in sync he plays well. He absolutely should not be taking over 20 shots a game
Najeh Davenpoop
January 30th, 2011
12:27 am
LD deserves blame for keeping Powell and Zaza in for too long to start the 4th, for playing Zaza instead of Collins in the first place, and for the Hawks’ unwillingness as a team to get the ball in the post to Joe/Al/Smoove on every possession. He does not deserve blame for the fact that this roster has no quality depth in the front court or at point guard in the first place, nor has he done a bad job overall as a head coach. The Hawks this year are more unselfish, less reliant on Iso-Joe, less reliant on the starting lineup, and better and less gimmicky defensively, and chances are that is going to translate into better performances in the playoffs (it has already translated into two wins over Orlando, the Hawks’ nemesis last year).
LD has done a decent job. Not great, but definitely better than Woody.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 30th, 2011
12:29 am
And also, for the first three quarters Joe was scoring within the flow of the offense, not on isolations. In the 4th that obviously changed. But the bad 4th quarter doesn’t change the fact that for the first three quarters he was playing one of his best games of the season.
Walker, Texas Ranger
January 30th, 2011
12:29 am
Hers’a list of coaches in the league who are better than Drew:
Gregg Popovich
Jerry Sloan
Phil Jackson
Scott Skiles
Doc Rivers
Tom Thibodeau
Stan Van Gundy
Mike D’Antoni
Scott Brooks
Rick Carlisle
Rick Adelman
Monty Williams
Avery Johnson (he has a crappy group of players, but he’s proven what he can do with talent)
Eric Spoelstra
Flip Saunders (another guy stuck with mediocre young players, but who has proven himself in the past)
George Carl
Alvin Gentry (he has shown that he can make adjustments and lead a team far when given a significant amount of talent)
That leaves only
Paul Westphaul
Kurt Rambis
Vinny Del Negro
John Keuster
Keith Smart
as coaches who are not significantly worse than Drew, and each of those coaches are stuck with inferior groups of players compared to the Hawks. I didn’t include Paul Silas in the discussion because it’s too soon to tell how he’ll do coaching the bobcats this season, and it’s been far too long since his last coaching stint.
Also, keep in mind that I didn’t mention Jim O’Brien, Collins, Jay Triano, or Byron Scott since it’s arguable that each of them is about even with Drew in terms of coaching. None of them have bad strategies, but each of them has a team filled with role players and lack of talent (the pacers have one player who is close to being a “star”, but that’s it).
rusty
January 30th, 2011
12:38 am
What good was jj great 3quarters when he took us out of our offense in the 4th & we lose the game
Walker, Texas Ranger
January 30th, 2011
12:48 am
How has L.D. done a better job than Woody? Seriously, on the offensive end, we are almost the same, strategically. Occasionally, we move the ball, but anytime we play a good team and the pressure is on, or we are down, 90% of the time, we go back to iso-Joe or iso-Jamal. What has L.D. added to that? Iso-Josh? Our offense is worse now (check the stats). Believe it or not, we ran a lot of the same plays under Woodson, we just isolated a ton when games were close. Larry Drew has added in some more plays, or used more plays that we didn’t use last year, but in the fourth quarter, he might as well be Woodson on slimfast.
Also, in terms of matchups, I think L.D. is worse than Woodson. Reguarly, L.D. matches Bibby up with quick point guards, who we all know he is unable to guard. Woodson almost always tried to hide Bibby. Also, Woodson used to match up Horford on the opposing team’s best post players. L.D. almost always just matches up based upon position when it comes to our bigs, regardless of whether there is success in that or not. Like tonight, for example, Al was doing a better job guarding Dirk than Smoove, and Al is a better individual defender in the post than Josh, yet L.D. stuck with Josh on Dirk. Also, remember that Houston game where Scola was on fire against Josh? It took L.D. more than half of the game to finally put Horford on him and shut him down, but in the fourth quarter, after that had worked, he put Smoove back on him. Often times, what L.D. does makes no sense.
Also, on the defensive end, people hated how Woodson used switching. Well, news flash people, Bibby can’t defend anyone in a 1 vs. 1 situation, and once the opposing team sets a pick, Bibby is going to get lost. We are pretty much forced to switch with bibby and Jamal, and we still switch on screens a lot. We did a ton of switching tonight. Our defense, at times, has looked better, but that’s only really been when Bibby or Jamal have been out of the game. When both of them are in, and L.D. loves having them in together in the fourth quarter, our defense is just as bad as it was under Woodson.
Also, what other problems has L.D. solved? He hasn’t helped Josh to improve his shot selection. He hasn’t helped Al to get more shots. Al is still as underutilized as ever, lately. L.D. hasn’t improved our win total, although we’ve had injuries. Only time will tell whether our road record will improve from last season, and our home record is worse than it was last season. Joe is playing better lately, but it’s not because of L.D.’s system, it’s because he’s dominating the ball more lately. Our transition defense is slightly better, but at the same time, our rebounding is worse due to that “adjustment”. Our turnovers are up, which makes sense if you really do move the ball, but our offense is, once again, worse.
Also, people are saying that maybe Drew will have more success in the playoffs. What signs of that are you seeing? We’ve managed to beat a wounded and a new orlando team during the season, but during the regular season last year, we beat a lot of elite teams under Woodson and still got abused in the playoffs. It should be obvious to everyone that if Drew continues to go iso in the fourth quarters of games against good teams, we are going to lose those games. It will only get worse in the playoffs if we continue to use this strategy. Also, Drew hasn’t shown signs of improvement as time has gone on. If anything, things are starting to look worse. Joe is isolating more and more, Horford is getting the ball on offense less and less, Teague is playing less and less and getting blamed for his “lack of hard work”, and our team is starting to appear as though they care less and less when they lose.
I’m not saying that drew is a bad coach, overall. For a rookie head coach, he’s done okay. But he hasn’t been better than Woodson, and for this team, and the improvement that the fans want to see, “okay” isn’t enough.
Rufus1
January 30th, 2011
12:50 am
Mad Joe WTF?
Bibby hit one shot…and that is 75% of his value….Teague 6pts, Bibby 3pts
Jamal(10mil a year) shoots 4-12 and half his shots were wide open…99% of his value.
If joe scores 27pts and shoots 50% ….HE DID HIS JOB.
Jerome
January 30th, 2011
12:54 am
I’m with Chuck Norris (Walker) on this one. L.D. is no better than Woodson. If management wanted us to isolate during fourth quarter and lose to every good team in the playoffs, they should have just stuck with Woodson. I really believe that the only reason ASG made a coaching change was to cut salary. They knew they could low-ball Drew since he desperately wanted to be a head coach and wouldn’t have been hired by anyone else. This is what happens when your tight pockets dictate the success of your team.
rusty
January 30th, 2011
12:59 am
Ld & jj took us out of the game in the 4th quarter like they usually do
Ramone
January 30th, 2011
1:56 am
Larry Drew’s post-game conference was pathetic. “Our shot selection was a bit iffy…the effort was there, we just came up short.” Are you kidding me, Drew? The “shot selection” wasn’t good? Is that the best explanation you’ve got? How about saying “I’m a dumba$$ and I stuck with the bench too long when we had the lead. I don’t think that anyone on the team outside of Joe is capable of scoring so I decided to let him take 30+% of the team’s shots, and my offense was so predictable that the Mavs were able to key in on Joe and shut us down.”? How about, “I hate Jeff Teague, so I had to go with Bibby down the stretch who was having an awful game to begin with.”? How about “I’m jealous of Al and don’t want him to have any individual success, so I have to make sure that he doesn’t get to shoot the ball, even if it means losing the game.” How about “Joe has been so wonderful for us, he’s playing so well. He’s better than Kobe and Wade combined. He makes Lebron look like Mario West. I love Joe. He’s also been excellent defensively. He should be the frontrunner for MVP and defensive player of the year. Oh, I love Joe so much. Am I starting to blush?”
At least admit what you did you wrong, you sorry excuse for a coach. How about giving your mentor some credit instead of stabbing him the back and pretending to be better? I’m so tired of this guy. I’m pretty much convinced at this point that Drew was the worst choice for a head coach this summer. Thibodeau, Casey, Avery Johnson, Byron Scott, Monty Williams, even Marc Jackson probably would have been better. We are not going to improve unless we get rid of this joke.
Jamal, if you’re reading this, your best bet is to sign with another team after the season. Drew is only going to continue to hurt the team and make you look worse individually. You are clearly not one of his “favorites”, so you’d be better off getting fair treatment with another team that is actually going somewhere.
sam'l
January 30th, 2011
7:13 am
glad I missed this game, but it’s amazing the shift in an entire reality when the Hawks win one game and then lose a game. Really, the world doesn’t change because the Hawks lose a game.
I categorically deny any positive feedback for Woodson…….who ranks as possibly the worse coach ever.
As far as Drew, I feel it’s safe to say he has lost control of the team, his players, certainly management. I would like to be fair, but it’s pretty late in the game.
Replace him……tomorrow. The Hawks need all the edge they can get…….
And for once…..get someone who has authority to run the club.
As far as Marvin Williams…..pretty clear to me……either he’s indifferent or he’s destructive….the only consistent aspect is…..he’s not interested in helping anyone but himself………
Trade, trade, trade……
Yeah, I feel for you Hawks fans…..you, we deserve better…….i mean we could have beaten the Mavericks, right?