Atlanta Hawks: Larry Drew uncut: Josh Smith’s jumpers, Jeff Teague’s minutes

L.D. can be pretty verbose (which is a good thing for my purposes), so sometimes I don’t get a chance to use everything he says. I thought my blog people would be interested if I finished off the week by emptying some L.D. insights from my notebook . . .

ESPN’s Chad Ford includes Smoove in an article about midcareer players improving their shots (Insider). Ford notes Josh’s work last summer with the Hoops Whisperer, Idan Ravin.

This ground has been covered before but this line in Ford’s story caught my eye:

“[Ravin] patched the hole in Smith’s psyche with texts containing affirmations such as ‘You don’t need their approval, so stop looking in their direction.’”

Not sure who “they” are, but it just so happens L.D. was talking about this very thing on Tuesday (before Smoove’s misfires in the fourth quarter at Milwaukee). I asked him if he’s concerned that with both Josh and Al moving their games away from the basket the Hawks might become too reliant on jump shots:

I am not concerned about that. I know that is–whether people want to admit it or not–that is a strong point of our game is bigs that can pop out. The gray area is when they should do it, particularly Josh Smith. We have discussed it and during the course of a game we acknowledge it. Sometimes he will look at me on bench [and ask], ‘Was that a good shot or a bad shot?’ I am honest with him: ‘No, it was not a good shot. We’ve got 16 seconds on the shot clock or it’s not within our offense or we’ve gone three or four trips down the floor and we haven’t had a good one and you take another jump shot. Sometimes we bump heads about it; sometimes we dap one another: ‘Coach, you are right, that is a bad shot.’

He is learning, and that is part of the growing pains as a coach you have to live with. Someone read a stat about his percentage on stand-still shooting, he ranks high in the league. [NOTE: I'm not exactly sure what L.D. meant by that but, according to Synergy Sports Technology, Smoove ranks 158th with .95 points per possession on spot-ups while shooting 40.5 percent (75 of 185)]. It’s something he has worked on. I can see his stroke has changed. It looks different than the past. I’ve always said if a guy works on his game, works on taking a shot, if he has the ability to make it and shows he can make it, you have got to let him shoot it. With him, his whole thing is when he shoots it. There are times I don’t want that shot, and he knows that. It’s something as a coach I have to keep working on him with it. He wants to know if it’s a good shot. Sometimes we will butt heads and sometimes we won’t.

I’ve got big men who can pop and make shots. There has to be some give and take, which they understand. We don’t want to be a predominantly jump-shooting team. We want to have the ability to post up, and we do post up a lot and go at matchups a lot. That is something that has been really good for us thus far this season. We do have a matchup advantage. I have to let him know: ‘When I put you against a smaller guy and go into the post, you can’t shoot a fadeaway. You have to put him in the basket with the ball.’

Its’ kind of a battle but it’s something we haven’t done in the past. We have basically gone through Joe. He gets double-teamed, it comes out and everybody shoots off that. We don’t do that anymore. Joe gets his isolations but we we also go at matchups where we have an advantage.’

I mentioned the other day in my video post that L.D. had talked “at length” about Teague’s role. (If you couldn’t hear me because of the wack audio, then just trust me, I said it). Well, here is what Drew said when Hometeam Brandon Leak asked him what he needs to see from Teague to earn him more burn:

I want to see more production. I want to see more consistency, and that has not been the case. He has shown flashes of being a consistent player but for whatever reason I haven’t gotten the consistency from him. I’ve told him he’s the fastest guy on the floor. Speed-wise there is no one out there that even comes close. I think he should be more of a dominant player, especially at his position. He brings something to the table that we don’t have but he doesn’t bring it with a consistency.

That’s something I’ve tried to talk to him about on a day in and day out basis. He has got to utilize his speed to his advantage and be more productive with it. He has the ability to guard and harass and make life tough for some of these point guards so when he gets in the game the energy and intensity has to pick up. That’s why I’m mainly looking for from a consistency standpoint.

Leak then asked L.D. if he thinks the problem is Teague lacks confidence in his jump shot:

I would be surprised if it is, because his effectiveness is not predicated on him making a shot. The thing I want him to do when he gets in the game is to elevate the pace of the game with his speed. I want him to push it and stay in an attack mode. It’s never a situation where if he turns the ball over, he is yanked out of the game right away.

Defensively I want him to be more a harasser. I want him up the floor picking people up. I just want him working. I want him active. Sometimes he does it, sometimes he doesn’t. I need a consistency in that area. I don’t expect him to get out there and play at a Mike Bibby pace. Not taking anything from Mike, [but] he is where he is in his career. And Jeff has twice the speed. He has to learn how to utilize it every time he steps on the floor. He has to use it to his advantage; he has to use it to make us a better team. Because there is nobody on our team that come close to his speed and quickness.

Finally . . . The poor shot selection and defensive breakdowns at Milwaukee have been season-long problems. So I asked L.D. yesterday: If players don’t (or can’t) execute his gameplan does he at some point have to change the way he distributes the minutes?

Oh yeah. Definitely. But as I told the guys, it is not a time to panic. We have been in situations of having leads and sustaining leads. I can’t recall going into a fourth quarter when we were up double digit points and we had a total breakdown. I talk abut taking care o the basketball, rebounding and shot selection. We didn’t handle two of the three [at Milwaukee]. When that does happen, it is going to allow the team to get on runs and put you in a situation where you almost have to score on every possession. We didn’t handle our business last night. We have to learn from it and move on.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

61 comments Add your comment

Tony from Stone Mountain

January 28th, 2011
3:01 pm

Trojan

January 28th, 2011
3:08 pm

Bibby is very consistant in his defensive intensity.

Gwalk

January 28th, 2011
3:08 pm

Really I’ll take 2nd…

Nathan

January 28th, 2011
3:11 pm

Teague better be something i dont want to waste another draft pick on a PG. We need VErnon Macklin in the 2011 Draft for a center. Marvin is not for a bench role send him out and get a good small forward backup for smoove, like chandler parsons. I want al to play the 4 and josh the 3 and keep bibby for a backup pg.

Nathan

January 28th, 2011
3:14 pm

and Joe and Al need to be in the all-star game.

Jed

January 28th, 2011
3:15 pm

Props to Tony. I like where LD is coming from with the give and take on Josh’s game. First of all, b/c Josh WANTS TO KNOW if it was a good shot or not. And that LD honors that by being up front with him, but also by not going all Bobby Knight (or Woody) on him.

Everytime I get fed up with Smoove, I guess I need some MC reportage on progress (behind the scenes, if not on the court) to encourage me. But somebody is gonna have to help an over-50 white guy keep up with the slang: I’m guessing “sometimes we dap one another” means sometimes we adapt (agree) to what the other guy is saying?

Just showing my age (and lack of hipness).

JJ

January 28th, 2011
3:16 pm

J Smoove and Bibby for Nash, Grant Hill, and Brooks Lopez. Do it.

1 – Nash / Teague
2 – JJ / Jamal
3 – Hill / Marvin
4 – Horford / Powell
5 – Lopez / Zaza / Twin

Michael Cunningham

January 28th, 2011
3:23 pm

@Jed: “But somebody is gonna have to help an over-50 white guy keep up with the slang: I’m guessing “sometimes we dap one another” means sometimes we adapt (agree) to what the other guy is saying? Just showing my age (and lack of hipness).”

definition no. 1:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dap

bigdave

January 28th, 2011
3:25 pm

everything said in this piece im in an agreeance w/ from Teague.. to Josh.. coach says all the right things.. kinda like Smitty..

“I’ve always said if a guy works on his game, works on taking a shot, if he has the ability to make it and shows he can make it, you have got to let him shoot it.”

-NBA head coach Larry Drew

Rufus1

January 28th, 2011
3:27 pm

Maybe My standards are too low, But…..

I don’t ever remember Woody giving that much detail, so I am going to be a little more patient.

El Bravo

January 28th, 2011
3:27 pm

At this point we are no better than the fourth team in the East. It is time to give Teague more playing time and let him learn on the floor. He’s wasting away at the end of the bench and, if he is as important a piece as coach says, then he needs to take his licks already. If we lose 5 to 7 games because of it so be it. We are not going to drop out of the playoffs. Bottom line is that we are not going anywhere with Bibby at the point…

Freshfromatl

January 28th, 2011
3:32 pm

MC,

Lmao @ definition #3 for “dap.”

“An acronym for “dry anal powerslam”, which is rough anal sex with no lubrication used.”

Wooooaaaah…I’ve never heard the word “dap” expressed in this way before.

Mike is back

January 28th, 2011
3:40 pm

Wow MC, you mean to tell me Josh…it not aware that those are bad shot he is taking…and he has to ask the coach…now that’s scary.

I agree whole heartily with LD on Teague…he is not using his greatest assets to his advantage…he has to learn to be more assertive on floor. I have been waiting since forever to see Teague come in and wreak havoc on the game…with his speed and quickness…did I mention I’m still waiting.

I seen it once when Teague played in Boston…but that was against a rookie scrub…I have yet to see Teague play with that type of tenacity…against one of the first tier or second tier PGs in the league.

El Bravo

January 28th, 2011
3:40 pm

Ha ha!!! I can’t say I’ve ever heard it used that way either Fresh…

El Bravo

January 28th, 2011
3:43 pm

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one thinking the same Mike is Back. Dude’s been playing in the league six years and he still can’t recognize a bad shot. He takes the phrase “his problem is mental, not physical” to a whole new level…

JJ

January 28th, 2011
3:43 pm

I think in reality the Hawks are no better than 5th or 6th in the East. BUT, because of the problems for the Heat/Bulls/Magic throughout the season, they find themselves only 2.5 games out of the 2 seed in the stnadings so they are in prime position to make a deal, get better, and really make a push for that 2nd seed.

Samuel

January 28th, 2011
3:48 pm

So guys don’t look for Josh to stop taking 20-25 footers ,at the wrong time, anytime soon. LD sees nothing wrong with it. I was kind of disappointed in that answer since Josh is basically unstoppable on the blocks. I see that Josh shoots about 40% on spot ups. MC can you get a number on Josh shooting from 10 feet in. 40% will get you about 4th place in the East which is where we’re at so I guess LD, Rick Sund and the ASG is ok with that.

The Cavs have lost 18 straight games. I guess Byron Scott wasn’t “ALL THAT” after all. Washington is 0-21 on the road. Flip Sanders is a joke. My Boy “Woody” needs some work. Surely, he can do better than that.

On Al, I have no problem with him stepping out because he’s basically a 4 anyway and he’s consistant.

out of town

January 28th, 2011
3:55 pm

I’m coming to the game 2 nite! ANyone got the scoop for the best way to get in to the Omni?

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
3:55 pm

I’ve noticed that when my boys look at me for guidance, it is usually when they are doing something stupid, not when they are doing something they’ve been taught to do. I’ve never had them look at me when they are reading a book or properly brushing their teeth, they usually look at me inquisitively when they are using the lampshade as a basketball hoop or pocketing another cookie. I bet if Josh took 90% of his shots in the paint, he wouldn’t have to worry about checking in with his coach (in his 7th year of pro ball).

drmaryb (*_*)

January 28th, 2011
3:57 pm

Impactful!

This is pretty much what I thought, when Teague is in the game, there is no impact. He makes no difference. He comes in and walks the ball up the court like he is Bibby! I here yelling at the screen, sayingn “Run fool!”

And, Teague is just taking the scenic route and taking a walk up the court to opass it off to Jamal, behind the 3 pt line. Teague is slow and dumb, just like I said several months ago!

How many times do you have to tell him the same thing, before it sinks in?

__________________________

Let’s Go! Looks like the ASKG wants to sell the Hockey Team, good luck with that in this economy. They’ll have a better chance selling the Hawks!

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
3:57 pm

out of town, head toward Fulton County Stadium and turn left. It is across the street from the Turtles Record store.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
4:06 pm

Samuel, this provides Josh’s shooting percentages from various spots on the floor. Keep in mind that Josh was much better with his jumper in the first 25-30 games and not so good lately.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ATL11.HTM

El Bravo

January 28th, 2011
4:07 pm

On his defense Astro Joe, maybe he meant the Omni Hotel in which case his question is valid (though I seriously doubt that’s what he meant…)

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
4:20 pm

El Bravo, I could have given him the Pascual Perez version…. “take I-285 until you find the Omni exit”.

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Victtor DaPonte, Atlanta Hawks Buzz and Mark Sumpter, Michael Cunningham. Michael Cunningham said: Atlanta Hawks: Larry Drew uncut: Josh Smith’s jumpers, Jeff Teague’s minutes http://bit.ly/fdSwlD [...]

niremetal

January 28th, 2011
4:29 pm

“[Ravin] patched the hole in Smith’s psyche with texts containing affirmations such as ‘You don’t need their approval, so stop looking in their direction.’”

Someone please find Mr. Ravin and smack him upside the head. Preferably with a baseball bat.

bigdave

January 28th, 2011
4:29 pm

“head toward Fulton County Stadium and turn left. It is across the street from the (Turtles Record store).”

ahhhhh .. this was too funny..i used to rent Nintendo cartridges from there was i was a liitel kid..

bigdave

January 28th, 2011
4:29 pm

Rod from College Park

January 28th, 2011
4:32 pm

out of town,

When you get to the Omni, ask them to dierct to The World of Sid and Marty Krofft.

The Truth

January 28th, 2011
4:34 pm

Thanks MC, very insightful stuff. I think LD assessment of Teague is on point. It becomes obvious from the interview that LD is judging Teague differently than Hawksville is evaluating him. LD thinks his effectiveness is not predicated on him making a shot, perhaps contrary to the fans expectations, but for him to elevate the pace of the game with his speed. In other words, play in attack mode and breakdown the defense, then dish or go strong to the rim. Seems like a simple mission to me. LD acknowledges that Teague plays this way on occasions but not consistent enough. I am beginning to believe that constantly streaking up and down the court at full throttle is not Teague’s game. He seems to want to play a bit more cerebral luring his defender to sleep and hoping for a mistake and then capitalizing with fast drives inside to finish with his floater, lay-up or dish. Perhaps LD is expecting Teague’s game to be something that it is not. His natural tendency is what he is currently doing not what the coach wants him to do.

bigdave

January 28th, 2011
4:36 pm

WCW might be even be in town..

could you get Mean Jean Okerlunds autograph for me.. he’s a legend.. “1800 909 9900 kids get your parents permission.. “lol

drmaryb (*_*)

January 28th, 2011
4:39 pm

*consistant. CONSISTENT
___________________

Out of Town : Take Marta – It’s Smarta.

O'Brien

January 28th, 2011
4:39 pm

Great stuff MC.

I’m a Teague fan, but I definitely understand LD’s reasoning for not giving him more minutes. Teague has to utilize his speed effectively, and do it more consistently.

I thought it was interesting that LD said it is NOT dependent on him making shots. Teague should know exactly what is required from him. As a matter of fact, just by reading this peice, I know what’s required of Teague.

No excuses young pup. Listen to some DMX before the game, and show LD your inner dog when you get on the court.

As for Josh and his jumpers, I have a problem with LD’s response. Josh has been in the league for 7 years, and he still has to ask if it’s a good shot or not? Is he that unsure of his shot selction?

LD deserves some blame because I think he goes too easy on Josh when he takes those bad shots. As a result, I think we will continue to have games where Josh takes his (bad) shots, and LD will say “I will continue to talk to him about it.”

I would like to see less talk from LD, and more action.

out of town

January 28th, 2011
4:43 pm

Thanks everyone for the directions. Hope to see you there! At the Omni that is and not Turttles? Go Hawks

drmaryb (*_*)

January 28th, 2011
4:46 pm

The only difference between Teague and John Wall is:

That Dance Step and that Fast Step. John Wall blazes to the offensive end like Allen Iverson did – Catch me if you can, because I’m flying to the cup!

If you don’t get there first, pass it to the trailer on the wings or middle lane!
Pressure the defense, control the tempo with lightning speed. That is not a fundamental skill that is god-speed. Teague isn’t good enough to walk it up, we got Bibby to do that already. It’s like the change of speed running backs:

Michael Turner -vs- Jerius Norwood

That’s all Coach is looking for, that should be easy for Teague. Just run baby run!

{MAC-Town Georgia 478}

January 28th, 2011
4:47 pm

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Taking%20my%20talents%20to%20South%20Beach&defid=5087981

3. Taking my talents to South Beach 154 up, 102 down
buy taking my talents to south beach mugs, tshirts and magnets
Masturbation. Explanation:

When you realized you’re not going to get sex, you go home and masturbate. Likewise, when you realize you really aren’t the best basketball player of all time, and you don’t like cold cities, you “take your talents to South Beach”.
Hey Bob, you get lucky at the club?

Bob: Nope, imma go upstairs. I’ll be taking my talents to South Beach.

……………….

3. Taking my talents to South Beach 154 up, 102 down
buy taking my talents to south beach mugs, tshirts and magnets
Masturbation. Explanation:

When you realized you’re not going to get sex, you go home and masturbate. Likewise, when you realize you really aren’t the best basketball player of all time, and you don’t like cold cities, you “take your talents to South Beach”.
Hey Bob, you get lucky at the club?

Bob: Nope, imma go upstairs. I’ll be taking my talents to South Beach.

Chris

January 28th, 2011
4:49 pm

Jed, it’s a “fist bump” / hand shake and snap… you know AKA ‘give me five’.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 28th, 2011
4:53 pm

“coach says all the right things”

Co-sign. He’s been saying all the right things since he got the job. Doesn’t follow through with everything necessarily, but I never read an LD interview and come away feeling discouraged. He hasn’t been perfect this year but he’s been good more often than not.

NCBravesFan

January 28th, 2011
4:53 pm

So a question here, not intended to be insulting to anyone – I honestly want to know what folks think …

LD said this …

‘No, it was not a good shot. We’ve got 16 seconds on the shot clock or it’s not within our offense or we’ve gone three or four trips down the floor and we haven’t had a good one and you take another jump shot.” …

Is it reasonable for an NBA veteran to have to ask if a jump shot in that situation is a bad shot?

Najeh Davenpoop

January 28th, 2011
4:55 pm

“out of town, head toward Fulton County Stadium and turn left. It is across the street from the Turtles Record store.”

LMAO… I wanted to say something similar, but you beat me to it.

slimjr

January 28th, 2011
5:03 pm

Josh is shooting 27.3% from three land and 31% from 16-23 ft, last 4 weeks= Suck!! Just stop it!!!!! But get ready Hawk fans the 3 stoogies will make sure they get another beat down coming…. ISO Joe ISO Joe………….

Sund= 31 yrs?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Yawn…….

cp

January 28th, 2011
5:26 pm

At this point in his career Josh should know the difference between a good shot and bad shot. Teague just needs to get it done. Whenever he comes in he has to wreck havoc…

Rod from College Park

January 28th, 2011
5:48 pm

The problem I have with Woodson, and Drew is this. The NBA is a league based on mismatches. Neither coach seems to understand that if you have a mismatch, you should exploit it, until the other team adjust to stop it. If Josh has an advantage in the post against a smaller SF, then you should continue to go to him in the post, and make the other team adjust to stop it. If Josh has an advantage in the post, but he keeps shooting 3’s he is bailing the defense out, and that makes taking a 3 a bad shot. If Al hits that midrange jumper at a 50% clip, then keep running the pick and pop until the other team adjust and then you adjust off their adjustment. The Al pick and pop or Josh in the post plays, should be the ones that we run in the 4th quarter when we can’t score.

Andrew

January 28th, 2011
6:01 pm

I agree that L.D. always seems to say all of the right things, but overall I’m very disappointed in how he rarely follows throw with what he is saying. It’s one thing to talk about doing something, and it’s something entirely different to actually get out there and do it. I’m still waiting for the “accountability” that Drew talked about so much before he got the job, and I’m still waiting to see this “equal opportunity” system that he is talking about. Right now, honestly, there isn’t a huge difference on the offensive end from last year when the Hawks run into trouble in a close game. Things just degenerate down to Joe isolation and dribbling out the clock, or Jamal trying to get fouled on a three or a drive, or Smoove throwing up a bad shot which he bricks. I don’t feel like the players really “trust the system” or are confident that if they do what L.D. is saying that they will win the game. These things take time, but overall, I just don’t feel like there has been enough improvement to really say L.D. was a great choice as a coach. At this point, we are worse offensively than we were a year ago (statistically), and we are only slightly better defensively. At this point, we really don’t know if we will go further in the playoffs or not, but outside of Al Horford and Josh Smith at times, no one on the team is a better player than they were last season, and we are not playing better TEAM basketball either. I like the fact that we are not switching on the defensive end all of the time, but still, we have many of the same issue as we did last season.

We still continually have defensive collapses on the perimeter due to Bibby and Jamal, and if L.D. continues to be partial to offense over defense and play those two together, those issues are not giong to change. No matter how good your team defense is, you are not going to be able to stop your opponent every time down the court with two huge defensive liabilities on the floor together. It’s okay to try and hide one of them, but both, that’s almost impossible to do. L.D. still hasn’t come up with a solution to this problem.

Also, as many have noticed, L.D. harps on preventing the mistakes such as bad shot selection, blown defensive assignments, turnovers, lack of rebounding, etc. yet he refuses to administer any consequences to the major culprits behind these problems. At some point, you have to apply some disciplinary measures and actually accountability, because unless your players are the rare breed that are smart and self-motivated, they are not going to change their bad habits without consequences.

L.D. still fails to adjust minutes when a player is not producing, he still fails to reward players who are producing with more minutes/larger roles, and the system overall is still biased. Honestly, how many people can say that the Hawks offense is not predicated on Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith? For Joe, it makes sense at times, since he’s a tremendous offensive player, and Jamal’s role is to score since that’s what he does best, but Josh should not be getting 20 shots a night, and Joe and Josh combined should not consume 50+% of the team’s total attempts. Josh is nowhere near being a great offensive player, and for whatever reason, L.D. seems to just continue to allow him to do whatever he want. Regardless of what L.D. says, I feel like Josh and Joe could do whatever they wanted out on the court, and regardless of how bad they were playing, L.D. would keep them in the game. Those two players are exempt from accountability in L.D.’s mind. That’s the way it seems to me. On the other hand, there are guys like Horford who continue produce night in and night out, and they are never rewarded with more shots nor do they have plays run for them. If you have a player who is one of the league leaders in field goal percentage, with a unique and effective, well-rounded skill set, why not make use of that player? I feel like we underutilize Horford and Williams to a great extent, and our offense is still predictable enough that opposing teams know that if they shut Johnson down, the offense is going to suffer since L.D. doesn’t trust anyone else in crunch time (outside of occasionally bibby for spot up shots). Every opposing coach seems to agree. Look at what Skiles just said recently about the Hawks. Look at what Van Gundy has said.

If you want the team to truly improve, you’ve got to play to your strengths and you’ve got to motivate players with both rewards and punishments, based upon production, in order to get everyone to learn their roles and play them well. I don’t feel like L.D. does that. Sure, it’s his first season, and he will need time to improve, but was it really the best decision to hire a rookie coach to improve a 50-win team immediately, especially when that coach has emotional ties to certain players? I, for one, do not think so.

Trojan

January 28th, 2011
6:19 pm

Larry’s talk is growing old. The Hawks might as well be old because the PG sure is not going to push the action.

Why is Bibby held to lessor standards than Teague?

Does the word develop mean anything?

sam'l

January 28th, 2011
6:20 pm

I really do not know what is wrong with the Hawks. Their comments after the Bucks game indicate they have no idea themselves. This is not good.

Of course, now they have flopped, they will flip. Hawks win tonight.

ATL FAN

January 28th, 2011
6:23 pm

wow, good to hear that smoove has the interest of the team first, i was beginning to think he was reverting to his old selfish self…

JustAThought

January 28th, 2011
6:24 pm

And how long have Smoove been in the league? And he still don’t know what a good shot is……….LD needs to put his ass on the bench, I bet he will figure it out then. His basketball IQ may be low, but I doubt if he’s that stupid (only because LD is putting up with it).

The more thats revealed about Josh as a player, the more I question weather he really wants to part of this team. It would be nice to trade him for a young up and coming stud c/pf, but anything lets would be highway robber.

terrell

January 28th, 2011
6:26 pm

So what is Bibby consistant at? Besides playing horrible D, and shootin 3’s?

JustAThought

January 28th, 2011
6:34 pm

It also seems that LD has a major problem with hold these guys or certain players accountable for there game actions. That to me IMO is coaching SCARED. A lot of times with young players, as a coach you have to “say what you mean and mean what you say”.