Bucks 98, Hawks 90
Greetings, all-
Pretty brutal loss that’s a puzzler to explain. Some quotes from those involved.
Al Horford on losing leads late: “It’s a lessons still being learned, I feel like. I guess when it gets to a point where it hurts you and really bothers you, then you do something about it. I don’t know that we’re there as a team yet.”
Zaza Pachulia: “I believe we didn’t play smart the last couple minutes of the fourth quarter, I’d say the whole fourth quarter. We let them make a run and let them do what they wanted.”
Joe Johnson: “With everybody back, it seems that the flow is a little different. We just had no chemistry throughout the whole game.”
More Johnson: “It honestly wasn’t comfortable. We had a lead. After that, I don’t know what happened.”
Larry Drew: “It was not a good display of shot selection, which we talk about over and over, especially on the road. We settled.”
More Drew: “It was just a total collapse on the defensive end, I thought. We didn’t play with the energy, we didn’t play with the juice, we didn’t play with the intensity that, having been in that situation before, we’ve done in the past.”
- In the aftermath, this is unsettling. The Hawks had their full load of players and the Bucks didn’t have Brandon Jennings and John Salmons. The Hawks had three days’ rest and a six-game road winning streak.
To give a game away like that doesn’t make a lot of sense.
- The shot selection was particularly egregious. It seemed like they got trapped in a mindset that they had to chuck up jumpers to answer Milwaukee, and that obviously wasn’t the answer. Josh Smith was particularly trigger-happy, going 1 for 6 in the fourth, including 0-for-3 from 3-point range.
They were 5-for-22 in the fourth and 0-for-6 from 3-point range.
- The defense wasn’t much better. Earl Boykins and Carlos Delfino outscored the Hawks by themselves, 20-15. The Bucks were patient and worked for free looks at the basket, which they made. Boykins made 4 of 5 shots in the fourth, repeatedly attacking the basket. The Hawks’ 19-point deficit in the fourth was their second largest of the season. (20-point deficit in loss to Detroit Dec. 14)
- I’m not sure what this game means, ultimately. The Magic and Lakers lost to Milwaukee at the Bradley Center earlier this season. The Hawks had won six in a row on the road, so maybe this was bound to happen. Bear in mind this is a team that’s 29-17.
- Or, the Hawks weren’t able/willing to grind against a team that makes you do just that. For all the Bucks’ flaws, they can make teams work offensively. In their loss to Chicago Monday, the Bulls shot 39.5 percent but shot 25 free throws to Milwaukee’s 11 and won by nine points.
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293 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
8:53 pm
Sorry for the post in all italics. But basically, Josh is shooting a career high from 3 this year. And LD has told him to still establish himself in the post.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
8:53 pm
Not to take anything away from Jordan Crawford, but Landry Fields would look pretty damn good in a Hawks uniform, especially considering his ability to play small forward.
88Hawksfan
January 27th, 2011
8:53 pm
You all sound like you don’t know anything. I agree that Josh missed a lot of shots in this game, but he’s been making them lately and surprised all of us by how good he’s become with his outside shots. Now tell me, and he’s done it before, when the rest of the team is shooting bad, he takes over and every game lately, except this one, he contributed greatly and made a lot of shots no one thought he could make. Bibby had been playing decent D lately – haven’t you been watching? Now, don’t tell me Joe, Josh, and Mo need to be sent packing. Bibby has more good than bad nights, Josh is a deterrent under the basket to the other team’s ofense. Joe has had a couple of very good games, until this game, and he should, as the big money man. Why not bring up Zaza? Teague is not a rookie anymore and he has no shot. Mo is sometimes questionable. and Jamal is more good than bad and the team wouldn’t be as good without his playing. If anybody needs to leave town is Zaza (contributes very little ofensively and defensively; if he’s here again next year, I am going to question why he’s around, except for having a light skinned player on the team to bring out certain fans – I personally don;t think fans care about that as much as they care about having a winning team on the flor). Teague leaves me doubting he’ll ever be as good as we’ve imagined he could be (erratic, mishandles ball, has no shot). The Hawks need to find a decent center and part ways with Zaza – Collins is a veteran and plays better than Zaza; keep Collins and find another decent center to play against those 7 footers – Zaza is not the answer (anymore). I think we got a raw deal acquiring then resigning Teague – he brings nothing but a little speed which he does not use very well most of the time. Teague has no shot! Zaza cannot play ofense and his defense is not that great – why keep him?
Ron
January 27th, 2011
8:57 pm
“No argument from me there, and I’d also add that Al should be getting more than 9 shots.”
I definitely agree with Horford getting more shots. It boggles the mind how a guy who averages over 16 ppg, shoots 57% from the field, and has a deadly midrange shot (59% accuracy), can only receive 9 shots in a game. Especially on a team where he is, statistically, the most productive offensive player. I’m not asking for him to get more shots than Joe, but I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t at least be the second option. Shot distribution is one my biggest problems with the team right now. I’m not very confident in that changing much though. I just don’t see any signs of it changing, as disappointing as that sounds.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:09 pm
Sautee – That is Steve W, not SteveW. I have not posted since page 3 of this thread until now.
“Smoove is at his best in the low post where he can draw double teams and kick it to open shooters,”
Was that Najeh or Ramon who said this? I’m shocked.
Nobody is knocking Josh for shooting treys with 3 seconds on the clock. It is his consistently poor shot selection. Anyone who cannot see this, and acknowledge that Woody finally had him under control last season is a delusional homer.
Facts: Josh’s shooting percentage is going down as the season progresses. And I would guess he is only playing the 3 spot 25 % of the time. Anybody with any firm stats on this?
Fact – Josh’s Coach, LD consistently calls Josh out publicly for poor shot selection. Josh ignores him basically, with rare exceptions.
Fact: While other NBA players whine, Josh whines more. I wonder if there’s an NBA stats of seconds per game spent whining instead of playing.
Fact: Josh let Boykins score a critical layup with under 2 minutes to play because he was whining. Unacceptable in any League, especially the NBA.
Fact: Even the totally blind Josh lovers, which is scary in it’s failure to constitute reality (fan = fanatic = delusional I guess) say Josh is at his best on the low block. He was on the low block last year, and did not feel the need to shoot treys. What has changed this year?
Come on guys, don’t drink the koolaid. Josh is one of my favorite players. But to be irrational hurts him worse than it helps him. Kinda like a kid. You overlook his faults and tell him he’s doing good all of the time, you eventually create a monster.
Big Ray
January 27th, 2011
9:10 pm
When asked about Teague, Drew admitted, “I had hoped he would be further along. So we’ve had to go with what’s been good to us. Mike is up there in age but he’s still been pretty productive.”
There you have it. Condemn Drew if you want. He’s only telling the truth. Some of you still won’t believe it.
I do not know how you can justify this when two different coaches with two different philosophies are saying the same thing.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
9:14 pm
Najeh,
“Not to take anything away from Jordan Crawford, but Landry Fields would look pretty damn good in a Hawks uniform, especially considering his ability to play small forward.”.
Not to take anything away from Jeff Teague, but Toney Douglas would look good in a Hawks uniform, especially since he was all ACC at FSU, and a 2 time All ACC defensive team member.
Teague was drafted 19th, Toney went 29th.
And as a bonus, Toney is from Georgia, and his brother Harry plays for the Falcons.
Big Ray
January 27th, 2011
9:20 pm
Hate to say it, but since the ASG sucks at marketing anyway, stop using it as an excuse to not trade Smith.
Trade him if a worthwhile deal comes along. Notice he and Horford don’t have the chemistry they once did. I’ll tell you why: no matter what you think of him, Horford is a pro every night. I’ll leave it at that.
Big Ray
January 27th, 2011
9:21 pm
Co-sign both Najeh and O’brien
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:23 pm
And either the PG or Al is the reason the offense doesn’t run thru Al, unless LD has instructed something different. The offense needs to run thru Al on a consistent basis.
And I can’t believe we have all this arguing going on about a guy who has only average 16 ppg in a season twice, never averaged 9 rebounds a game for a season, is best known as a guy who used to block alot of shots, who is no longer in the top 10 in blocked shots, is 28th in the League in steals, and who’s major claims to fame are: Winning the Slam dunk contest, blocking shots, which he is decreasing in, coming in 2nd in the Defensive player of the Year award last season, and clanking jumpers for his career, until the first couple of months of this season. He may lead the NBA in head cases, and has never made the All Star team.
He is one of my favorite players, but let’s get real here guys…
Sautee
January 27th, 2011
9:28 pm
SteveW,
Sorry man, who knew there were two SteveW / Steve W’s on the same blog?
Or is somebody stealing your handle?
WOLLEY STEKCAJ
January 27th, 2011
9:28 pm
All Hawks players should be named Jay Cutler, they have no HEART!!!!!
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:29 pm
Big Ray – My only beef with LD on Jeff Teague is it doesn’t seem like he’s developing him. Jeff was a project pick at #19, and we all want him to be further along than he is. But he’s working like crazy in the off season, and keeping a good attitude. I just don’t want to see a Larry Brown Jr. attitude manifested by LD, were you are very hard on young PG’s that need developing and prefer finished products. I have gone over at length how I thought LD could accomplish this.
Jeff Teague will be our best PG since Mookie, but he’s probably still a year and a half off….He’ll still only be 24. He would only be a Senior in College right now if he would have stayed.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:30 pm
Sautee – I also saw a “Steve” on the blog also. Yes, I think it may be someone stealing the handle.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
9:35 pm
SteveW,
Sometimes I think the Hawks AND Josh would be better off if he was traded.
The Hawks need consistency from their players, and Josh is the definition of inconsistency. Plus Horford is more than capable of holding his own at PF.
And if Josh ever got to play for a guy like Doc Rivers, Sloan in Utah, Pop in San Antonio, I think he would play within his limitations, and would probably become the All-Star we all know he can become.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:52 pm
I haven’t been to the “Should we trade Josh for a PG” Shultz article yet. Can’t wait to see the frenzied paroxysms and apoplexy of Najeh, Rod, JeJe, and Ramon.
I hope AJC is on defcon 4, because somebody may try to take that blog down!
Just kidding of course….
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
9:54 pm
“Frenzied paroxysms and apoplexy” sounds like something Bill Walton would say.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:56 pm
O’Brien – You may be right. I hope Josh will just be fine here, but a Sloan or a Popovich may be what he needs to reach his fullest potential.
I do like Josh hiring Ida Cavin, and saying he wants to be a student of the game. When Josh is at his best in the low block, passing, getting assists, blocking shots, he is truly a wonderful player. When he becomes a head case, whines, and does his Kobe imitation on the perimeter, he hurts us. Still, he is probably tied with Al as our 2nd best player, with Jamal close behind, and JJ 1st.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
9:57 pm
Najeh – I take that as a compliment. Thank you
george
January 27th, 2011
10:18 pm
Najeh, Slimjr, Steve, and O’brien
Josh, Al, and JJ are not the problems for the Hawks. The problems are no point guard or paint control. It will be very difficult to find a big man in the league whose good enough to help the Hawks that any team would be willing to part with. So, the emphasis should be on trading for the best possible point guard and Josh, Al, and JJ are the only players who should be untouchable. The true talents of the CORE will never be realizied without a true facilator/floor leader. JJ is force to dribble into infinity because no one can get him the ball in rythium. Al has an excellent mid range shoot, but never gets the ball on the block. So, his low post game is non-existence. Finally, the majority of Josh’s points should come him slashing to the basket and put backs. Sincerely, I am not the only one who sees their point guard weaknesses and how they make the team a lesser.
Jamal is a great spark and scorer, but if his lost improves the team by allowing for a trade for the main missing ingredent; then, so be it.
Marvin has not been the answer at the 3 and probably will never reach his so-called potential with the Hawks. The Teague experiment has been a failure, but that’s no shame. He was not a point guard in college, but rather a tweener and probably could develop into a solid third guard. Unfortunately, the Hawks do not have the luxury of time for his growing pains. He is a miss, but as the 19th pick, no great loss. The #1 pick in this year’s draft (mid twenties) is not worthy of keeping if it prevents the team from getting what it needs to contend for a championship.
Let’s examine, Marvin and Teague are both disappointments and have no place on the team. Time to cut ties! To a lesser degree, ZaZa, M. Evans, Bibby, and the # 1 pick are all movable pieces in order to redefind the team. The time draws near for the Hawks to accept the facts and take bold steps to improve the team and ignite the fan base.
My suggestions: Center solutions
1. Marvin and Bibby(13.5 mil) or Teague, Mo, & Thomas (5 mil)/7.5 = 12.5) for Kaman (13.9 mil)
2. Marvin and the Hawks’ 2nd round pick to Portland to rent Pryzbilla (7.3 expiring this year) for the remainder of the year if he does not resign and the Hawks receive 7.5 x 3 years in cap space
Point Guard Solutions:
1. Jamal/Teague for Nash
2. Jamal/Teague for Devin Harris
3. Marvin/Teague to A. Miller(Portland)
Go Hawks
drmaryb (*_*)
January 27th, 2011
10:36 pm
Get The Point?
Get a PG and a dominant Center, then get back to me about all this other ish!
____________________
Co-Sign Najeh All Day Long. Najeh is the least emotional blogger on this board. When that dude types … I listen. I suggest yall remove the ‘bunches of oats’ from your panties and listen to what the man is saying.
____________________
O’Brien — Enthusiastic Co-Sign. IDK what you said, but sign me up!
____________________
Blue-Ray!
What’s up baby? How you durin’? Mmmmmwah!
________________________
Leave Josh alone, he’ll be fine! Let’s Go Knicks! Beat them Heatles!
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
10:44 pm
19, 13, and 6 for Landry Fields. Hawks better keep an eye on him and put a body on him tomorrow. That dude is a difference maker.
drmaryb (*_*)
January 27th, 2011
10:52 pm
Developmental League – Exit Left!
SteveW, hey baby what’s up? Listen, Coach Drew got a one year deal with a team option for a second, (which is what Marvin, Bibby and ZaZa shoulda’ got too), Man, they didn’t give Drew no time to be developing NOBODY!
Drew, got to win now or pack his box. He ain’t even got time to play with his
Choco-Nuts! (as enjoyable as that may be). When, Teague ‘nimber’ is called? He better be ready to ball – that’s all there is to it!
It’s like Looney – Tunes!
That’s All Folks!
northcyde
January 27th, 2011
11:24 pm
SMH @ Najeh
Smith’s shooting percentage from the outside is as “high” as it is right now, only because he was red hot ( for him ) in November and early December. That dude was consistently making 45% of his long 2s, and close to 40% of his threes.
But in the past month, all of that has gone down south.
Like JJ shouldn’t be jacking all of those 3 pointers, Josh needs to stop shooting perimeter jumpers. WE need his scoring on the inside . . desperately.
It used to be if he drove to the hole, he’d convert or get fouled. We hardly ever see that anymore, because he’s in love with the jumper.
It’s sad really. He was well on his way to the All-Star game. But he’s going to be mad again when he’s watching Horford go, instead of him.
Matter of fact, Horford might be the only Hawk going.
Harpie
January 27th, 2011
11:39 pm
Larry Drew and Josh stink!!!
Teezo
January 28th, 2011
12:04 am
@ Horford will be the only Hawk in LA…
I read a post about J. Smith shooting too many jumpers and not taking it to the paint…Its because he’s playing the SF position more this season and like many have said, he loves his jumper…When playing PF he had no problem taking them guys off the dribble..At SF the players are much more quicker and he knows he can’t take em…He’s out greatest asset that has gotten as good as he can get, please get something for him so Horford can play PF and put up numbers like K. Love…
Teezo
January 28th, 2011
12:05 am
oops…i meant @ northclyde
slimjr
January 28th, 2011
12:40 am
MARVIN,JOSH,AL= BEAT DOWN COMING for the third consecutive playoff…
Scottie jettison the core.Make it so……………………………………………………
Joe you gotta help the 3 stoogies dude!!! ISO JOE, ISO JOE,ISO JOE
slimjr
January 28th, 2011
12:47 am
Josh is shooting 27% from 3 pt line last 4 weeks…Is that good shooting????????????????????????????
Sund= fail
superiorblogman
January 28th, 2011
1:09 am
We need a C and a PG. Do not trade Josh unless you can get both. There is not a PG in the league that will be available between now and deadline worthy of Josh.
Josh and Teague for Conley and Gasol
Josh and Teague for Hinrich and McGee
Josh and Teague for Nash and Lopez
Notice the Nash package would be my last choice and least worthy due to his age and total lack of defense.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 28th, 2011
1:33 am
“Like JJ shouldn’t be jacking all of those 3 pointers, Josh needs to stop shooting perimeter jumpers. WE need his scoring on the inside . . desperately.”
Y’all are making it sound like I want him to shoot perimeter jumpers. All I have said on this blog is that if he gets that shot and takes it, it is not bad shot selection. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t rather see him posting up and playing near the hoop.
KevinM
January 28th, 2011
7:02 am
George, Kaman is no good for anyone…that albatross of a paycheck will only disgust you….remember Big Dog? Well, this is Big Dog II. The guy has had one year to remember and that’s it!
Pryz is one step from retiring…he said himself he wouldn’t mind playing in Minnesota…now what NBAer in his right mind says that? Even Darko said that…stay away from that way of thinking.
LD has done a fine job so far. He has the Hawks 5 games behind in wins in the East. What LD did say also is that he knew this team and knew how to improve each of them. Truthfully, I see only Bibby playing better than last year:
-Al has been consistent
-Joe is regaining his form with the elbow, but Joe is Joe. He isn’t going to improve.
-JC1- he has had a good year, not as eye-popping as last year.
-Marvin…..nevermind. This guy has reached his potential and that is a 5th starter and a helper on defense.
-Smoove- new position and away from the post where he is best. I dont’ think he has improved this year. I had more hope for him getting away from Woody, but it looks like Woody was good for him. He has very little restraint now.
So LD has 29 wins heading into the NY game where we ’should’ win. It is time to see some consistency from this team heading to All-Star weekend. Do I think he keeps his job? Yes. Do I want him to? Not necessarily, I have seen this script before. If Sund isn’t going to make any moves, LD shouldn’t be the only one looking for a new gig.
KevinM
January 28th, 2011
7:09 am
What I meant for the above is I want to Hawks to be built for the playoffs. I don’t see a difference maker on this roster to be convinced.
While the Boston series in ‘07 was an eye-opener and one of shock, I would have hoped the talent would have improved since then. We really haven’t. We have an older Bibby, Marvin, Zaza, Smoove, Joe and Al. We have gained JC1. That’s it. We should have built more after that series.
O'Brien
January 28th, 2011
7:19 am
KevinM,
I think LD has done a good job. To me, the biggest problem is the players, and their mentality. I think there is too much familiarity with each other (players and HC), so they have accepted each others faults, and try their best to work around them, instead of pushing for change.
george,
In theory, yes. But in reality, nobody wants Marvin (3 years, $22 mil left on his deal), our #1 pick will be in the twenties (not very attractive), and I doubt the Hawks trade Jamal when he is the most consistent scorer off the bench.
superiorblogman
January 28th, 2011
7:52 am
Seriously, Teague needs to learn to play. I don’t want Nash on this team but one thing I like about Nash is how he will pass someone the ball as a pressure release and go get it right back. Teague just gives up the ball and let’s others dictate too much. Make sure the right people are taking shots. Bibby does not do that either but it is too late for him, add the fact that he can’t get where he wants and that’s a lost cause
Obvious
January 28th, 2011
8:18 am
I tell you boys everyday. THE HAWKS LIVE BY THE JUMPER AND DIE BY THE JUMPER. IF THEY ARE HOT THEY WIN…IF NOT THEY LOSE. period!
DC
January 28th, 2011
8:33 am
@Obvious…I agree with your comment and I will add this.
IF THE OTHER TEAM IS HOT WHILE THEY ARE HOT THEN THEY LOSE BECAUSE OF LACK OF DEFENSIVE EFFORTS IN THE 4TH PERIOD.
AND IF THEY ARE NOT HOT, THEY LOSE MISERABLY ex. New Orleans Hornets 41-point beatdown of the Hawks
Sautee
January 28th, 2011
9:54 am
If you are going to lamely post as another to try to strengthen your point, it would be a good idea to change the style of the two posts……. like ANYBODY here who reads those two posts won’t be thinking hmmmmm.
It’s “Obvious” that DC is the same poster as “Obvious”.
LOL, like we wouldn’t recognize it! heh heh.
KevinM
January 28th, 2011
10:27 am
I would like to see Jason Williams being considered by Sund. Yes, we never hear what Sund is doing..is it because he really isn’t inquiring?
What better concept than to bring in Jason here away from Orlando and IMO there is plenty of playing time available in a pinch. He would be a cheap pickup and give us some depth should Bibby revert to being a tired Bibby once again.
Looks like the Grizzlies have inquired as they search to take some of the minutes off of Conley. And Mayo sure is tracking downward in value huh?
sam'l
January 28th, 2011
10:45 am
I really like Jason Williams all the way back to Sacramento when he was doing all his trick plays. I like him when he brought the ball up for Miami.
But Jason Williams does not solve the problems of playing defense.
Hate to admit it but the city of Atlanta itself could be the problem. Very few NBA players are clamoring to go South unless there’s a beach involved..
DC
January 28th, 2011
11:39 am
@Sautee…Sorry but no I am not Obvious and I actually do agree with the post.
DC
January 28th, 2011
11:43 am
@Sam’l…I think players are not eager to play in Atlanta due to the owners (and I use that term loosely) we have. If we sell the team to one person who would operate the way Blank does with the Falcons our luck would change, I am sure of it.
Ken Strickland
January 28th, 2011
3:13 pm
People are quick to say NBA players don’t want to play in Atlanta. How can that be when Atlanta is the home of as many, if not more, professional coaches and athletes than any other city in the country. Sometimes it’s not just the city. Take CAnthony for example. A lot of people think his issues are all about wanting to play in his home state of NY, but it’s more than that.
If that was all there was to it, he’d have no problem signing an extension with New Jersey, since they’ll be relocating to Brooklyn, NY in 2012. While he does want to move back to NY, his primary motivation is a desire to play before home crowds in historic Madison Square Garden.
As far as Smoove taking jump shots, I’m more concerned with when and why he’s taking them than the fact he’s taking them. More and more we’re seeing JJ and Jamal revert back to the ISO’s of yrs past, and Smoove is responding to being shutout by launching jumpers, just like in the past.
NAJEH-Man, you are on fire. While one might be able to find a point or 2 that can be challenged or debated, overall, you’re on point. While most of us have had no problem finding plenty to complain about concerning LDrew, the team, and certain Hawk players, the team has still in the thick of the hunt for the division title and/or a top 3 seed.