Bucks 98, Hawks 90
Greetings, all-
Pretty brutal loss that’s a puzzler to explain. Some quotes from those involved.
Al Horford on losing leads late: “It’s a lessons still being learned, I feel like. I guess when it gets to a point where it hurts you and really bothers you, then you do something about it. I don’t know that we’re there as a team yet.”
Zaza Pachulia: “I believe we didn’t play smart the last couple minutes of the fourth quarter, I’d say the whole fourth quarter. We let them make a run and let them do what they wanted.”
Joe Johnson: “With everybody back, it seems that the flow is a little different. We just had no chemistry throughout the whole game.”
More Johnson: “It honestly wasn’t comfortable. We had a lead. After that, I don’t know what happened.”
Larry Drew: “It was not a good display of shot selection, which we talk about over and over, especially on the road. We settled.”
More Drew: “It was just a total collapse on the defensive end, I thought. We didn’t play with the energy, we didn’t play with the juice, we didn’t play with the intensity that, having been in that situation before, we’ve done in the past.”
- In the aftermath, this is unsettling. The Hawks had their full load of players and the Bucks didn’t have Brandon Jennings and John Salmons. The Hawks had three days’ rest and a six-game road winning streak.
To give a game away like that doesn’t make a lot of sense.
- The shot selection was particularly egregious. It seemed like they got trapped in a mindset that they had to chuck up jumpers to answer Milwaukee, and that obviously wasn’t the answer. Josh Smith was particularly trigger-happy, going 1 for 6 in the fourth, including 0-for-3 from 3-point range.
They were 5-for-22 in the fourth and 0-for-6 from 3-point range.
- The defense wasn’t much better. Earl Boykins and Carlos Delfino outscored the Hawks by themselves, 20-15. The Bucks were patient and worked for free looks at the basket, which they made. Boykins made 4 of 5 shots in the fourth, repeatedly attacking the basket. The Hawks’ 19-point deficit in the fourth was their second largest of the season. (20-point deficit in loss to Detroit Dec. 14)
- I’m not sure what this game means, ultimately. The Magic and Lakers lost to Milwaukee at the Bradley Center earlier this season. The Hawks had won six in a row on the road, so maybe this was bound to happen. Bear in mind this is a team that’s 29-17.
- Or, the Hawks weren’t able/willing to grind against a team that makes you do just that. For all the Bucks’ flaws, they can make teams work offensively. In their loss to Chicago Monday, the Bulls shot 39.5 percent but shot 25 free throws to Milwaukee’s 11 and won by nine points.
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293 comments Add your comment
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
3:42 pm
Tremaine, why is it that Horford plays C and PF, but you can count on two hands how many times he posts up during any given game? For as much time as Josh may spend on the perimeter (and he is playing a perimeter position), the fact is Horford spends more on the perimeter than Josh does, and basically just waiting for someone else to set him up.
Tremaine
January 27th, 2011
3:46 pm
Horford has an outside jumper. He still average more rebounds than Josh despite spending more time on the perimeter.
Kerry
January 27th, 2011
3:47 pm
Hawks played a good game against the bucks, I just didn’t get it in the 4th quarter when they lost it, Can’t keep letting games like these slip away!
Grandad
January 27th, 2011
3:49 pm
I’m sorry as I only skimmed over everyone’s comments due to my
disgust with last evenings performance. I didn’t even read the
write up or box-score ’til this AM.
1st (although I’m still strongly in his corner) LD does not escape blame. Having been a Coach, LD must look in the mirror on this one.
lessons to be Learned or Coaching 101:
(1) Every now and then – pull Josh’s ass out, and leave him out.
Let him stew, pout, whatever. If he doesn’t get the picture…..
trade ‘im! (*for S.Curry) Tell him that!
(2) Joe played like…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
He was sleep-walking for cryin’ out loud! Once, he back-cut,
received a beautiful pass under the basket and instead of scoring,
he lazily dribbled out and passed back out for a three. Also, just
before the half, Joe lazily turns it over instead of @ least
attempting the last shot before half.
[*side-note on Josh - lazy lay-up instead of Dunk gets blocked]
(3) Eight point lead before half melts and we only lead by 3.
(4) LD stayed with bench too long with big lead…and lost momentum.
(5) LD tried to play Teague [match-up on Boykin] last eve…didn’t work. He should have had a back-up plan, stayed with Teague too long!
Teague does not even play [pg] when he is in the game. Rarely does he use his speed and quickness to any advantage. *(note – I like the kid)
(6) Al = 7 for 9 from the field / Josh = 6 for 20 from the field.
C’mon Coach, that’s on you. With the lead…why, please explain why,
we were not feeding AL.
(7) Finally – Only 19 assisted baskets.
Sixty shots taken made or missed that were or would have been
*un-assisted*. Tooooo Much Isooooo. Where has all the movement gone?
Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, and not enough pass & cut!
* Post Script – What happened to Collins, played well, never saw him
again = 14 min. Zaza = 10 min. Milwaukee made us adapt to Boykins
instead of us making them adapt to us.
** We were and are the superior team!
I feel better.
Tremaine
January 27th, 2011
3:50 pm
Kerry, they do it all the time. What don’t you get?
Tremaine
January 27th, 2011
3:53 pm
Grandad good post. Collins should be the starting center anyway. Joe is not a clutch player like Wade, Melo, Lebron, and Kobe. He just get paid like one.
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
3:56 pm
Tremaine, Horford averages less than one rebound than Josh. And Horford’s job is to attack the offensive glass, while Josh’s job is to get back on defense. So there goes your rebound. Not including the rebounds that Al gets after Josh applies the pressure that turns into a miss shot on defense.
Grandad, I’ve been saying for a while now, and its evident. Al will never be able to get a lot more touches until he gets in the gym and figures how to create his own separation between his man and he. Watch tomorrow’s game, and notice how majority of his shots come on assists, not on offensive moves made by him. That is ok if you have John Stockton or a facilitating pg.
No one still has said what Josh is supposed to do with the ball in his hands and 4 seconds on the clock, after an ISO kick out, when his teammates are covered.
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
3:58 pm
We lose the same way everytime…
Pack it in and make the settle for jump shots and the Attack Bibby..
I don’t think we have lost a game this year when the starting PG or a PG didn’t score atleast 15pts against us…please correct me if I am wrong.
Tremaine
January 27th, 2011
3:59 pm
I rather have Carmelo taking those 3’s with 4 seconds left on the clock rather than Josh.
Tremaine
January 27th, 2011
4:02 pm
Ramon I was just thinking we could of drafted Deron Williams or Chris Paul. SAD!!!
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
4:02 pm
Tremaine, would you also rather depend on Melo to get a defensive stop rather than Josh? Melo is a better shooter than Josh. But this season Josh has a better percentage, lol.
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
4:04 pm
Yep, and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Melo is the SF the Hawks hoped to get in Marvin.
Tremaine
January 27th, 2011
4:04 pm
Yes because I know if Melo give up 2 or 3 he can get them right back. Also he won’t choke up down the stretch like everybody did last night. Plus would take a lot of pressure off Joe.
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
4:06 pm
Ramon
Al is assisted on 92% of him jump shots
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2011/01/atlanta-hawks-defy-percentages.html
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
4:08 pm
“Al is assisted on 92% of him jump shots”
That stat only bolsters the argument we need penetrating PG.
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
4:11 pm
Rufus1, it also bolsters the argument if others aren’t scoring, it will be hard for Al to score, because his man has no reason to help out, creating the space needed.
I do agree pick and pop (Al) and pick and roll (Josh) should be our 2nd/3rd most used play in the fourth quarter, not iso.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:12 pm
“Josh Smith = poster child for why these guys need at least 3-years of college. I would loved to have seen him try to pull this stuff on guys like Izzo or Coach K.”
if they make that mandatory, the same day the NCAA needs a payment plan implemented.
“Al = 7 for 9 from the field / Josh = 6 for 20 from the field.
C’mon Coach, that’s on you. With the lead…why, please explain why,
we were not feeding AL.”
im all for Al getting his looks.. but the majority of his offense is based on the aggressiveness and effort of his teammates. im not ready to just dump the ball inside to Al and expect something good to happen. nor isolations from the elbow. i love his (wide open looks).. he knocks them down @ a high clip. thats keep in mind we’re talking about Al.. he’s far from Amare..
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
4:18 pm
Al is also good at putting the ball on the floor and driving past the man guarding him, since he usually has a quickness advantage, and he can do this effectively from pretty much the same places from which he takes his nearly automatic jump shots. I don’t think there’s any question Al needs to get the ball more. To me a bigger reason he didn’t get it much yesterday comes back to what I said earlier, that the Hawks abandoned the low post entirely. Everything opens up when the offense flows through the post, whether it’s Joe, Smoove, or Al posting up. When the Hawks go into pass-it-around-the-perimeter-and-only-use-big-men-for-screens mode, everything stops working.
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
4:19 pm
Ramon
“Rufus1, it also bolsters the argument if others aren’t scoring, it will be hard for Al to score, because his man has no reason to help out, creating the space needed”
I completely agree, my primary problem is Bibby…But I also want the Josh of last year and don’t we have gotten him.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:19 pm
speaking of ‘STAT’ i remember a couple seasons ago i was all for trading Al for him.. though keep in mind Al seemed like the 2nd coming of an Antonio/ Dale Davis hybrid on HGH.. i mean.. he wanted every reb. and it appeared to be quite the defender.. while Amare’ in most opinions, was just concerned w/ scoring..
we spend a entire blog on the pros and cons.. and many were against..
wish we made that trade/ or there was such a trade to be made… hard to tell rumor from reality nowadays when less GM’s and more journalist spark trade discussions..
DevN
January 27th, 2011
4:20 pm
I would only blame the coach for this. Ofcourse the players(mainly Josh) are to be blamed – but this was a total system collapse. When that happens its the coach – he should use the timeouts to pass the message and have the balls to bench the player(s) for a few minutes if they are in a funk.
We are just not playing good enough defense to go anywhere in the playoffs – even if we get freaking Melo.
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
4:20 pm
Al shots 57.7% from 16-23ft….That is AMAZING.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:21 pm
“Al is also good at putting the ball on the floor and driving past the man guarding him, since he usually has a quickness advantage”
thats only if he goes quick Poop.. i mean as soon as he gets it.. inside pivot.. attack.. all those jabs.. ya know.. pumps.. aint nobody falling for that. i dont think he goes off the dribble that much b/c though he’s quick.. he’s not the most explosive finisher.. and he seems to get bodied alot.. like.. around the rim, its just that same bully ball game he had @ FL.
The Truth
January 27th, 2011
4:22 pm
Grandad
Your 3:49 pm was on point, echoed some of my observations of the game. I have no agenda, so if a player I previous praised sucks in a game, well then, he sucks (in that game). BTW, that goes for the coaches as well.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
4:22 pm
On Smoove’s final brick yesterday, the play originally went to Al and called for him to drive past Bogut; the problem is that they got him the ball too far from the basket.
Al is at his best on his mid range shots and in a position when he can drive on slower big men. Smoove is at his best in the low post where he can draw double teams and kick it to open shooters, and when he’s not on the floor, Joe does this as well as Smoove. The more the Hawks feature these two concepts, the better their offense will be.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:23 pm
“Al shots 57.7% from 16-23ft….That is AMAZING.”
it is.. i dont care that he’s wide open when he shoots em.. thats impressive.. his shot is pure..
Grandad
January 27th, 2011
4:28 pm
Jerry Sloan figured out how to get Karl Malone the ball.
Shaq & Kareem needed someone to get them the ball.
No Al is not Amare nor is he Shaq or Kareem.
He is also neither Karl malone nor Karl Marx, or Groucho Marx
for that matter!
The point is “Get Him The ____ Ball” where he needs it,
when he needs it. That’s the Coach’s job and his teammate’s
responsibility. Piss on this or that.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:28 pm
*”we spent”
Rod from College Park
January 27th, 2011
4:28 pm
Grandad,
“(5) LD tried to play Teague [match-up on Boykin] last eve…didn’t work. He should have had a back-up plan, stayed with Teague too long!
Teague does not even play [pg] when he is in the game. Rarely does he use his speed and quickness to any advantage. *(note – I like the kid)”
Glad to know an old coach can see some of the same things I saw. This great defender Teague is a figment of some people’s imagination. Kind of like Marvin. The kid was no better than Bibby guarding Boykins last night. Also agree with your points on Joe and Josh. The Horford thing is a little questionable, because one of those stupid 3’s Josh took at the end of the game was on a pass from Horford because he could not take his man one on one, he got stuck and kicked to Josh with the shot clock winding down. I still don’t understand why the Joe’s, Biiby’s even Marvin’s of the world keep passing up open shots to swing the ball to Josh for a open 3. Sometimes I think Josh’s confidence is his problem. He is not as good as he thinks he is offensively.
lewis
January 27th, 2011
4:29 pm
what Grandad said.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:29 pm
so Grandad..
Al is the go to guy..? right now?
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
January 27th, 2011
4:29 pm
Ken Sugiura
January 27th, 2011
10:39 am
Mac-Town – this answers a post from way back, but I didn’t talk to Josh Smith for timing reasons. I don’t know of a time when he hasn’t been willing to talk.
Unquestionably, the fourth quarter was abysmal. Smith’s shot selection is problematic. One thing that Drew talks about a lot is shot selection, and not just his.
At the risk of sounding like an apologist, though, I think one thing to remember is that the Hawks are 15-10 on the road. I think that’s sixth best in the league. Do you think this team is better than it was last year?
……………………….
Well that’s good to hear, because that would have been disappointing (about J-Smoove) and yeah I think we’re slightly better because atleast Drew isnt as stubborn as Woody, so I think he’d mix it up atleast a little if the same reoccurring problems continued to plague the Hawks in a playoff series.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:31 pm
our offense should be built around Al.. ? hmmh, right now?
when we needed a bucket in the worse way, we went to him..
and we saw what happened. he made the best basketball play available given his skill, and that was to pass.
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
January 27th, 2011
4:32 pm
smh…The Hawks and UGA…both murdered by 4′11 guys.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:33 pm
to my point.. as presently constructed.. Al’s contributions are based on the aggressiveness and success of Joe.. and Josh..
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
4:35 pm
Grandad, each of the players you just mentioned were GREAT at scoring on the block. Malone, Kareem, and Shaq each were a mismatch for anyone they had on the block. Al doesn’t do anything on the block. Al just shoot jumpers.
Ramon
January 27th, 2011
4:40 pm
Also, when was the last time we saw JC1 assist Horford on a basket? I don’t recall Crawford regularly setting Horford up at all.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
4:44 pm
From Jeff Schultz;
When asked about Teague, Drew admitted, “I had hoped he would be further along. So we’ve had to go with what’s been good to us. Mike is up there in age but he’s still been pretty productive.”
Drew said he’s resting Bibby enough that he’s not overly concerned about the player wearing down in the second half and in the postseason.
When asked about defenses breaking down the Hawks, he said, “It does start [at point guard], but most of our breakdowns on top will be off the pick and roll. … From a breakdown standpoint, it’s certainly the head of the snake for us. We have to have ball containment. But that’s true with everybody on the perimeter.”.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/01/27/trades-part-ii-should-hawks-deal-josh-for-point-guard/
IMO, LD needs to be more worried about teams breaking down Hawks defense in the playoffs (even if he doesnt say it out loud).
The numbers don’t lie.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:45 pm
to his credit.. i mean, he doesnt look to facilitate much.. but Jamal runs a nice pick and pop game w/ Al..
mainly b/c he’s probably our best perimeter threat of getting to the basket..
thats what hurts us though.. w/ that pick and roll/pop game.. yea, Mike is a good shooter, but you’re not having to guard anything but a pull up.. that pick and pop game is dangerous when you have ball handler who is a threat to come of that screen and shoot, dead eye pass, or get to the basket and create hell..
cough.. cough.. Nasty Nash.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
4:48 pm
Ramon,
“Malone, Kareem, and Shaq each were a mismatch for anyone they had on the block. Al doesn’t do anything on the block. Al just shoot jumpers”.
Hawks are paying ZaZa $4.5 mil per season (to shoot 44% from the field, and average 4pts, 4 rebs and 0.3 blocks in 14 mpg), but they only offered Shaq (68% from the field, 10 pts, 5 rebs and 1 block in 21 mpg) the vet minimum.
I think we could have used Shaq’s scoring on the block.
KevinM
January 27th, 2011
4:49 pm
FWIW, Smoove is a captain and I lay it on him to quit shooting those jumpers. The coach at a professional level shouldn’t have to tell him to quit shooting them, and LD is obviously not going to stop him, but stand up for him…sound familiar? See the previous coach.
You think anyone on this team has told Smoove to quit? Probably not.
Smoove played better and was more consistent last year under Woody.
But its not just Smoove. I have said all year this team played just fine when you lost Joe/JC1/Marvin. You know when the team struggled? When Al was out.
To me, anyone aside of Al can be moved if given the opportunity. Sund isn’t that creative and the ASG is blowing smoke to the season ticket holders telling them they will exceed the cap if needed.
The Hawks at the point in the season where there should be some consistency each night. But here we are, we beat Miami in OT, we sleep thru CP3’s visit to our town, we beat Charlotte with a late surge, and we give away a game to a team who has been disappointing all year.
Which team against the Knicks? Probably a better team than last night, but who could be sure. As much as Sund wants to be the Spurs, this team doesn’t compare as far as consistency. I have maybe seen the Spurs play 2 really bad games this year. They have been together for a long time and it shows. The Hawks can’t say that. They still don’t have an explanation for anything they do.
Talk about a classic case of non-accountability. There isn’t a team in the league who concerns themselves with our interchangeable parts. That is all a pipe dream brought on by BK and we still trying to achieve his model.
We could use an upgrade to our big 3.
bigdave
January 27th, 2011
4:50 pm
ok..
so when we trade Josh Smith out of town.. who is going to guard the rim? who is going to protect our basket when any one of those old pg’s or even Joe @ times gets repeatedly molested off the dribble?
Jamal.. is the only piece unless you’re talking super star or getting a defensive minded big back..
KevinM
January 27th, 2011
4:51 pm
OB, we could have used Shaq’s attitude and his size as well. No way you pay or play Collins, Zaza and Thomas before you play Shaq.
The key miss of the offseason IMO, just ahead of letting Joe go elsewhere. I wouldn’t have been sad about that either. Joe is not the guy that can lead you to the ECF or Finals. Sund thinks otherwise.
slimjr
January 27th, 2011
4:54 pm
Trade JOSH,Marvin yesterday for ???????????
Sund=fail
slimjr
January 27th, 2011
4:57 pm
“SlimJr, you do realize Josh was responsible for over 5 defensive stops in the 4th quarter last night right? You also realize that Josh had 4 blocks and 11 reb last night correct?”
Dude.I would have benched his azz after bricking his first 3 in the fourth. His 4 blocks and 11 rebounds got us a loss??? WTF??? You have got to win these types of games with an 11 point lead in the fourth..Enough with 43 years of brutal excuses…..
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
5:03 pm
I didn’t want Shaq…
Because we already have Josh. Imagine what Shaq would have said if Josh took 20 shot and he took 7 in a loss…Do any of you think Josh would have listened…I DON’T
+ he wanted too much money and is always hurt.
lewis
January 27th, 2011
5:11 pm
i’d give my first born for steph curry
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
5:22 pm
Enter your comments here
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
5:23 pm
trade
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
5:25 pm
On Josh Smith and his Shot….
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/01/27/josh-smiths-shooting-fluke-or-new-skill/