Game thread, Bucks-Hawks
Greetings, all-
This is Ken sitting in for MC, who’s getting some needed down time. I know it was hard for him to pass up a trip to beautiful Milwaukee (just ask Josh Smith), but discretion is the better part of valor, as they say.
I was going to post a little earlier, but wanted to let the Carmelo thread get more of a run. Interesting, I thought, though, as Mike pointed out, I don’t know what the Hawks have that they’d be willing to give up that the Nuggets would really want. Maybe the Hawks could arrange a three-way trade and be able to use Carmelo like a timeshare.
Anyway, some tidbits from the shootaround.
- Al Horford and Marvin Williams both shot and will be ready. Larry Drew sounded like he was planning on giving Wiliams about 20 minutes of playing time.
- Drew is going with the big lineup to tangle with Andrew Bogut.
- Drew said the team is playing better on the road in part because it’s understanding that you have to play differently on the road than you do at the super-energized Philips Arena.
Drew: “When you look at our team in the past, and when I say past I’m saying years back, we’ve tried to play the same way on the road as we do at home, and the one thing I tried to instill in these guys is the fact that the mindset has to be a little different on the road because you can’t play with the pace on the road like you do at home.”
- Hawks wearing the red uni’s again. They’re 4-0 thus far in them this season.
- Got any questions for Jamal Crawford? Get them to me by the time I get to the arena for open locker room (6:30 EST) and I’ll ask what I can. (Presuming he’s willing and available, which he generally is.)
- Question – as best I can tell, there’s five arenas in the NBA that aren’t named by a corporation. The Bradley Center (named after a local philanthropist) is one of them. Can you name the others? No googling, please.
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502 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
10:22 pm
At least Smoove hits the rim on his missed 3’s…
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
10:22 pm
Man these losses are so damn sad and pathetic…
Blake
January 26th, 2011
10:23 pm
Why do we even bother?
Sautee
January 26th, 2011
10:23 pm
The problem with Josh taking that 3 was that we had NO weakside rebounder. Where was Joe or Jamal? I don’t mind Josh taking it in rhythm, but to have NO rebounders other than Horford for that play seems crazy.
Rod from College Park
January 26th, 2011
10:23 pm
Terrible coaching today by Drew. Terrible decisions made by Bibby and Jamal running the offense. Stop passing to Josh behind the 3 point line because he is going to shoot it. Milwaukee will be dangerous again this year, if they get healthy.
Melvin
January 26th, 2011
10:23 pm
Another 15pt qtr…
J.J.M
January 26th, 2011
10:24 pm
im tired of seeing the same bs from the hawks….watch they say the samething after this game
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:24 pm
the play was to iso Al i guess trying to blow by Bogut for a quick to.. but Bogut sat on his predictable offensive skill .. as some has said Al isnt a go to guy in the paint. he kicked it out to the 1st open man he saw and we got a clean look @ 3..
play designed to get the best look quick..
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:24 pm
Truth be told, I don’t know what Josh is doing in game in these final moments…
I would’ve thought about bringing in Collins, sliding Horford to the 4, and JJ at the 3, JC1, and Bibby.
Josh wasn’t doing anything offensively. He took dumb shot after dumb shot in this 4th quarter. His shot selection was turrrrrible. Would’ve been had dude on the bench.
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
10:24 pm
Josh has taken 5 threes, this is what I didn’t want to happen. Just a month ago wasn’t this guy limiting himself to 1 three a game, someone pull this guy aside and yell to him, YOU ARE NOT A THREE POINT SHOOTER!!!
Hawks vs Bucks
January 26th, 2011
10:25 pm
5th place will probably have them facing Orlando on the road (that would make a quick and easy playoff exit for the Hawks) or the Bulls on the road (haven’t faced them yet this year so not sure how they match up)
Rod from College Park
January 26th, 2011
10:25 pm
Boykins destroyed Teague most of the game, and finished the game destroying Bibby. Joe played terrible.
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:26 pm
Rod: “Milwaukee will be dangerous again this year, if they get healthy.”
The only way Milwaukee is dangerous is if they draw the Hawks…
Other teams don’t seem to have the problems the Hawks do vs. the Bucks. They know they can play with the Hawks.
cp
January 26th, 2011
10:26 pm
Bibby legs will be like Jello by the time the playoffs get here. Time to just let Teague play or get another pg in here ASAP….Still no accountability from the coach. Josh was jacking jumpers up all night and LD did nothing.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:27 pm
“Josh is 6-19, and we go to him for a 3? SMH at LD if that was the play-call.”
see my 10:24
we looked to score quick.. designed to get Al iso’ed against Bogut for a quick 2.. Bogut sat on his move to his right hook over left shoulder. w/ no counter move.. he kicked it out to a perimeter player.. of course it would be Josh open..
ReddJonn68
January 26th, 2011
10:27 pm
When will they learn that defense win championships in ATL, is it any wonder that San Antonio is in the thick of it again & Duncan is going downhill?
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:28 pm
“Horford will have a hard time getting many shot attempts in his career because he has difficulty creating his own shot. Long as he’s playing with a PG like Bibby, or shot first player like JC1, he will have games where he doesn’t get many attempts. Horford needs to play with a facilitating point guard to full capitalize his best abilities. You can’t fire off mid range jumpers (his only offense move that he seems quite confident in) if you don’t have separation.”
this was a dead on post.. absolutely.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
10:28 pm
“it was most likely a play drawn for Al to get a quick drive and get fouled, he saw that someone collapsed and threw it to Josh who is just in jump shot mode.”
With 19 seconds left and down by 2 possessions, though, what should Smoove do in that situation? No question it’s a bad shot, but it’s not like he’s in position to swing it around for a better one. He’s the open man on that possession, not Bibby or Joe, and a contested 3 is always a worse shot than an open 3.
To me the worst shot Smoove took in this quarter was the off balance runner off the backboard moving to his right that didn’t draw iron. That was a forced, terrible shot on which he had no angle. The majority of his jumpers in this game were open looks in the flow of the offense and a lot of them came with 5 seconds or less on the clock. Of course you’d like a more reliable jump shooter to be taking many of those shots, but is it really Smoove’s prerogative to make sure that a more reliable jump shooter is getting that look?
To me, this collapse is on LD. The Hawks totally panicked and went away from the post up game when the going got tough.
Sautee
January 26th, 2011
10:28 pm
Now the blog will be covered up with b!tching and moaning. Oh joy.
pinoy hawk
January 26th, 2011
10:29 pm
wow bucks win w/o jennings and salmons versus the hawks with a complete linep. smh..
can’t blame smoove on that open 3pt shot.. blame LD for setting up the play.. should have been bibby or jcraw making the shot..
cp
January 26th, 2011
10:29 pm
Get Melo or Nash in here. Do something because this team is no different than the team last year or the the one the year before that. This core has peaked
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:29 pm
I also don’t think LD is dumb enough to draw up a play that would have Josh launching a 3 when we’re in desperate need of a bucket…
There’s no way he would draw that up.
The problem is, when Josh see’s himself standing there wide open, he thinks very little about the game situation and the consequences if he’s to miss that 3. For a guy that misses open bucket after open bucket, this guy is far from gunshy. He stays lauching jumper after jumper.
It’s mad irritating. I wonder if coaches talk to this guy. If you’re feeling it and taking those shots, fine. But, if you haven’t made those shots all game, why the hell are you taking it with the game hanging in the balance?
O'Brien
January 26th, 2011
10:29 pm
bigdave,
i would prefer to take another 5 seconds if it means getting somebody else a better look.
Hawks give up 34 points in the fourth quarter, and only score 15? Unacceptable.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:30 pm
folks wanting Melo..
id prefer nasty Nash.
uga-brave
January 26th, 2011
10:31 pm
josh shoots 3’s because he is lazy and has never developed a face up game in the half court. you would figure after five or so years he would be able to go to his right.
Rod from College Park
January 26th, 2011
10:32 pm
Marvin returns, We Lose. I’m just saying…..
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
10:32 pm
Do you guys really think LD drew up the play for Smoove to shoot a three? The guy has a damn head give him some credit, that was a play for a quick two for Al to the basket, Josh Smith doesn’t have a head so he just jacked up a three when he had missed his previous three, Josh should know to give it up to his shotmakers Joe or Jamal..
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
10:32 pm
“I would’ve thought about bringing in Collins, sliding Horford to the 4, and JJ at the 3, JC1, and Bibby.
Josh wasn’t doing anything offensively. He took dumb shot after dumb shot in this 4th quarter. His shot selection was turrrrrible. Would’ve been had dude on the bench.”
The Hawks needed stops, and Smoove got them a key stop when he forced Bogut to miss his lefty hook, but Horford got called for a BS foul which sent Ilyasova to the line and made it a two possession game.
The guy who should have been on the bench is Bibby, who was worthless on both ends of the floor all game long, getting spun around like a top by Boykins on D and bricking or airballing all his 3’s on O.
Jamal-Joe-Smoove-Horford-Collins. That should have been the lineup.
Jerry West
January 26th, 2011
10:33 pm
1st off, hats off to Temple. he’s worked hard on his shot since LSU, happy for him. I always wanted the Hawks to take a look at him, because he can basically do what Bibby does on offense, but he’s a helluva defender (ask JJ Redick how he ended his career).
That said, when are the Hawks gonna figure out that Al Horford needs to shoot way more, and Josh Smith might just need to stop altogether.
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:33 pm
Don’t know about that Najeh…
Don’t question that it’s on LD first and foremost. Where was his ‘motion offense’ when we were lulling?
But, Josh continues to take these jumpers as if he’s hitting a high percentage of them. Until he improves his shot selection, the knock on his maturity/basketball iq won’t go anywhere.
This guy is a gifted athlete. But, basketball fundamentals/IQ? I’ll let you be the judge of that.
cp
January 26th, 2011
10:34 pm
bigdave I would prefer Nash too but at this point I dont think I would complain about either guy in a Hawks uniform.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:34 pm
“i would prefer to take another 5 seconds if it means getting (somebody else) a better look. ”
so which is the problem.. the fact that it was Josh open and he took it.. or that it was an iso called?
i dont mind either.. Horford just beat Bogut off the dribble on a previous play.. so why not put your guys who are all capable of hitting a 3 on the perimeter.. worse case scenario you get an open look from 3 if help comes.. thats what we got..
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
10:35 pm
“Josh Smith doesn’t have a head so he just jacked up a three when he had missed his previous three, Josh should know to give it up to his shotmakers Joe or Jamal..”
Smoove was open. Joe and Jamal had defenders on them. A pass to either of them in that situation likely results in a miss or a turnover. The right play in that situation is to take the shot. It’s not the ideal shot, but with 19 seconds left and down by two possessions, you’re not going to always get the look you want.
Personally I would have rather seen Al go up strong and try to get fouled instead of passing it at all.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2011
10:35 pm
Najeh,
Why didnt Josh drive the ball then and try to get fouled?
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:35 pm
I understand we need stops…
But again, if a stop translates to a J.Smith 3 pointer at the other end, what are we getting?
We may have gotten a stop on Josh’s stop, but what shot did we end up getting at the other end?
It means nothing to get shots when we’re forcing up off balanced shots that don’t have much chance of going in.
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:36 pm
Rod from College Park
January 26th, 2011
10:32 pm
Marvin returns, We Lose. I’m just saying…
lmao
Val
January 26th, 2011
10:37 pm
“‘Horford will have a hard time getting many shot attempts in his career because he has difficulty creating his own shot. Long as he’s playing with a PG like Bibby, or shot first player like JC1, he will have games where he doesn’t get many attempts. Horford needs to play with a facilitating point guard to full capitalize his best abilities. You can’t fire off mid range jumpers (his only offense move that he seems quite confident in) if you don’t have separation.’
this was a dead on post.. absolutely.”
Al can easily create his own shot. He’s just reluctant to do so. Your a fool if you don’t see that. First off, if you throw him the ball in the post and he faces up, his defender has to either make a choice to body him up and prevent a jump shot, or give him space to prevent the drive. Horford almost always has a speed advantage, so if his defender gets too close, he’ll blow by him and get to the rim. If his defender gives him space, he’ll drill a midrange shot. Also, he is steadily developing a back-to-the-basket game. He doesn’t exactly get many opportunities to utilize it with the system that the Hawks run. Still, Horford is the type of guy who can create his own shot, score off of an assisted shot, or create a shot for teammates with his passing ability when the defense collapses on him. There was just an article on ESPN insider about Horford being the most underrated player in the game today, and there were statistics detailing his offensive ability, which completely defy what you are saying. Who do you think people are going to listen to more? A kid on a blog with a personal vendetta against Horford, or someone who has been following the NBA game and writing pieces on players for most of his life? I know I won’t be taking any of your advice.
Also, don’t look for me to respond to whatever you have to say to this, if anything. I’m not going to waste my time. I shouldn’t have to anyway. I’m done posting for tonight after this very disappointing defeat.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:37 pm
cp..
agreed.. but Nash will maximize the skills of Al and Josh. keeping them fed.. keeping them active defensively. controlling the game.
i dont see how Melo makes the guys around him better.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
10:37 pm
Really I thought the Hawks would come out in that situation with the play they ran against Miami, where Joe lobs to Smoove. Letting Al drive on Bogut is not a bad idea, but not when he gets the ball 20 feet away from the hoop.
lewis
January 26th, 2011
10:39 pm
gone away from the post at the end of games much?
bibby making first passes with 15 left on the clock?
bibby getting exploited off the dribble by 36 year old earl boykins?
josh’s shot selection?
Drew got that constant blank stare just like Woody
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
10:40 pm
@ Najeh
It is not an ideal shot to me EVER anymore, I don’t like Josh out there, whenever he shoots it I never feel confident it’s going in. LD should’ve nipped this in the bud when he started shooting again, this guy should be limited to ONE three a game..he took FIVE, why is he outside taking FIVE threes IDK.
Also I put some of this on his teammates, someone has GOT to man up and tell Josh to get in the post. I have no idea why Al passes up a play designed for him, Bogut probably would’ve committed that foul and sent him to the line for 2 easy one and defense can come up with something, but that whole sequence it was awful to me, and it was all caused by bad decision making from the team.
Solid Fifth Seed
January 26th, 2011
10:40 pm
The Hawks need a pg bad. Teague does not impress me at all. He has yet to grasp “spacing” on offense and is self-check when he has the ball. Also, Marvin only cluttered things up. Notice JJ was not as aggressive? What ever happened to that pg out of Syracuse that the Wolves drafted last year?
terrell
January 26th, 2011
10:41 pm
The “core” strikes again…..
pinoy hawk
January 26th, 2011
10:41 pm
short-term = nash
long-term = melo (if he signs for an extension)
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
10:42 pm
“Why didnt Josh drive the ball then and try to get fouled?”
Fair point — this is probably what he should have done in hindsight.
Of course, if Ilyasova or Bogut recover and cut off his left hand, he would be totally helpless and he’d have to give the ball up, probably to Joe or Jamal who would then be taking a contested 3 regardless. The problem with saying Smoove should drive is that his handles are nowhere near good enough to drive in a lot of situations. I trust him to hit an open 3 any day of the week before I trust him to dribble with his right hand and do something positive.
Wabe
January 26th, 2011
10:42 pm
Don’t argue that Bibby should’ve been on the bench…
Not at all.
But this goes right back to the never-ending debate of what we’re doing to try to get his replacement either a) found or b) developed.
Again, same ish.
It’s never-ending, it’s been a problem we’ve had forever, and we still have no solution in sight. Nobody can say what the short-term or longterm plans are for JT0.
Yet another reason why fans are getting frustrated after losses like this. We know the problems, but we see little to no effort to square these problems away. Moves aren’t made in the offseason. See the same ish in the regular season + playoffs.
Antawn
January 26th, 2011
10:42 pm
Najeh,
Your right that that play where Josh got a three point shot attempt was not the ideal play, but there wasn’t much else the Hawks could have done in that situation. Al was obviously trying to attack the rim, but when he was getting by Bogut, Delfino came in to help and Al really had no where to go. If he would have gone up to try and get a dunk or layup, it most likely would have resulted in an offensive foul, missed shot, or turnover, since the bucks had cut off his path to the basket with help defense. Josh was the open man on that play. Joe and Jamal were both covered, so even if Al or Smoove would have tried to get the ball to one of them, it probably would have been a turnover. I don’t think there’s much the Hawks could have done in that situation, without more player movement. With Joe and Jamal staying pinned by defenders and Josh out on the perimeter, meanwhile Al having 2 defenders in his path to the basket, the options were limited.
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
10:42 pm
@ Lewis
Why do we have the most emotionless coaches in the NBA in Atlanta, even Rick Carlisle bucked up to Baron Davis yesterday, can this guy yell at Josh or something man, GET HIS MIND RIGHT!
Antawn
January 26th, 2011
10:43 pm
Najeh,
You’re right that that play where Josh got a three point shot attempt was not the ideal play, but there wasn’t much else the Hawks could have done in that situation. Al was obviously trying to attack the rim, but when he was getting by Bogut, Delfino came in to help and Al really had no where to go. If he would have gone up to try and get a dunk or layup, it most likely would have resulted in an offensive foul, missed shot, or turnover, since the bucks had cut off his path to the basket with help defense. Josh was the open man on that play. Joe and Jamal were both covered, so even if Al or Smoove would have tried to get the ball to one of them, it probably would have been a turnover. I don’t think there’s much the Hawks could have done in that situation, without more player movement. With Joe and Jamal staying pinned by defenders and Josh out on the perimeter, meanwhile Al having 2 defenders in his path to the basket, the options were limited.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
10:43 pm
lol @ Horford’s #1 fan..
nobody taking shots @ Al.. its clear. its evident w/in his game. for those of us who watch him night in and out against actual defense. i could careless what a stat watcher from espn thinks. we know Al’s strengths.. face up.. pick and pop.. we know his weakness.. counter moves.. going over right shoulder from the left block.. im sure Al does as well. indeed he has a speed advantages.. doesnt matter if he doesnt go quickly. he’s not the most explosive leaper to the rim.. he’s mechanical and deliberate.. goes late..