Game thread, Bucks-Hawks
Greetings, all-
This is Ken sitting in for MC, who’s getting some needed down time. I know it was hard for him to pass up a trip to beautiful Milwaukee (just ask Josh Smith), but discretion is the better part of valor, as they say.
I was going to post a little earlier, but wanted to let the Carmelo thread get more of a run. Interesting, I thought, though, as Mike pointed out, I don’t know what the Hawks have that they’d be willing to give up that the Nuggets would really want. Maybe the Hawks could arrange a three-way trade and be able to use Carmelo like a timeshare.
Anyway, some tidbits from the shootaround.
- Al Horford and Marvin Williams both shot and will be ready. Larry Drew sounded like he was planning on giving Wiliams about 20 minutes of playing time.
- Drew is going with the big lineup to tangle with Andrew Bogut.
- Drew said the team is playing better on the road in part because it’s understanding that you have to play differently on the road than you do at the super-energized Philips Arena.
Drew: “When you look at our team in the past, and when I say past I’m saying years back, we’ve tried to play the same way on the road as we do at home, and the one thing I tried to instill in these guys is the fact that the mindset has to be a little different on the road because you can’t play with the pace on the road like you do at home.”
- Hawks wearing the red uni’s again. They’re 4-0 thus far in them this season.
- Got any questions for Jamal Crawford? Get them to me by the time I get to the arena for open locker room (6:30 EST) and I’ll ask what I can. (Presuming he’s willing and available, which he generally is.)
- Question – as best I can tell, there’s five arenas in the NBA that aren’t named by a corporation. The Bradley Center (named after a local philanthropist) is one of them. Can you name the others? No googling, please.
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502 comments Add your comment
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
11:19 pm
These are the types of games you just have to win, look at Utah they lost a lot of easy games to bad teams, now look at them playing back to back LA and SA, things can escalade quickly.
Lucky for us we only have about 5 teams worth mentioning in the East, but this was, to me at least, a sure win and I am dissappointed in the performance in the second half.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:23 pm
whoa.. whoa.. whoa..
know sir.. nobody here is comparing the will Josh Smith to Kobe Bryant.. Kobe is in the Jordan class of wills, and ethic..
but c’mon now. dont slight the kid. ask yourself this.. out of all these Hawks.. who have you seen the most progression in? as far as skill…? who..? who’s game has come the furthest? though he might now have the skill and abilities.. Josh has some of that, if we’re going to lose.. im getting my money’s worth in him. not being afraid to take his shots.. if he likes the shot.
what Kobe are have you been watching that doesnt bytch and moan.. and complain.. but b/c its Josh Smith.. its a problem. ok.
Worldwide Clyde
January 26th, 2011
11:26 pm
What’s the excuse tonight Hawks? Everyone healthy and we still get beat.
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:26 pm
you talking bout Josh not hustling back on d.. cause Hubie f-in Brown (much respect) said he wasnt.. a spoon fed Kobe has been known to pack it in sir..
yea.. not even shoot.. pass the ball.. like to say, im not apart of this a$$ whoopin..
kwooden1
January 26th, 2011
11:27 pm
All I have to say is I’m happy the HAWKS lost because hopefully we will stop seeing LD’s Bibby, Crawford, JJ line up in the 4th quarter. They have been getting away with that line-up for to long and its obvious that its terrible defensively. Check out the game log, once LD put the line-up in the game they promptly gave up 2 3’s and a 2, LEAD GONE!! Jeff didn’t have a super game, but Boykins scored 10 points in the 4th after Jeff went out! Josh clearly took to many 3’s but he was the only one posting up. He took 10 shots in the paint and 10 shots ourside the paint. We had only one other player on the team that shot that percentage in the paint and that was Zaza! (most of his shots came on tips) We’re a jump shooting team that really struggles with perimeter defensive because of dribble pentration. I know LD’s been trying a lot of different line-ups because of injuries, but he’s got to find a better line-up to end games. To me if they go ISO for most of the 4th I wouldn’t mind. Jamal, JJ, Marvin, Smoove and Horford or Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Smoove and Horford, but you just can’t put Jamal and Bibby on the floor at the same time and hope for the best.
Bad loss!!
GO HAWKS!!!
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:29 pm
Ben G.
“The casual observer guy might need to add you to his list if this keeps up.”
FYI im a Joe Johnson fan sir.. yea.. jigga man.. yea.. check the archives..
i like all my hawks though.. ya know.. but this isnt a personnel issue.. man.. we have organizational problems..
Worldwide Clyde
January 26th, 2011
11:30 pm
FIRE SUND
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:31 pm
the Hawks like have a generational curse or something..
SteveW
January 26th, 2011
11:31 pm
In the Motion Offense, each player will get the ball really all over the court. It is then up to that player (see LD) to determine whether he can make that shot on a regular basis. This apology for Josh that it is his teammates fault for passing him the ball at the 3 point stripe, and not Josh’s fault for shot selection. is disingenuous.
Am I glad Josh is making more Jumpers? Yes. But for folks to blame his teammates for somehow forcing him to take jumpers because they passed to him outside is ludicrous. Now with 3 seconds on the clock, that’s one thing. But how many times have we seen Josh shoot them up with 17 seconds left on the clock? That is on him.
Woody had what it took to stand up to Josh. LD may not. He does in the paper about every week, but not much changes. Josh is still not on the low block like LD says constantly to interviewers that he wishes Josh would. And that’s on LD.
Let’s allow these players and coaches some personal responsibility here.
And don’t blame Teague – he had a +3 tonight, which seems to be a stat many put alot of weight into. Highest on the team I think.
Worldwide Clyde
January 26th, 2011
11:32 pm
Earl Boykins was running circles around Bibby but everybody trying to blame Teague for the loss.
SHAKING MY GOT DAM HEAD
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:36 pm
SteveW
Woody is the reason Josh is who he is now.. Woody is the reason why our bigs bring the ball up the floor.. Woody didnt define roles.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
11:41 pm
“Now with 3 seconds on the clock, that’s one thing. But how many times have we seen Josh shoot them up with 17 seconds left on the clock?”
Zero, in this game.
I just went through the play by play of this game, and Smoove didn’t miss a jump shot with more than 11 seconds on the shot clock. In fact that shot he missed with 11 seconds on the shot clock in the first quarter was the only one on which the clock was in double digits. Granted, I didn’t check his made shots — maybe he took a jumper with more than that left on the clock and made it.
Sorry, but the criticism of Smoove’s jump shots doesn’t really hold water. The worst shot he took all game was when he tried to drive to his right late in the 4th.
superiorblogman
January 26th, 2011
11:42 pm
A. Larry Drew is as inconsistent as the Hawks players are. He does not understand gameflow.
B. Josh Smith takes too many shots.
C. Al Horford does not get enough shots.
D. The Hawks will never win anything worthy of noting until they get another legit starting PG and C.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
11:44 pm
“Earl Boykins was running circles around Bibby but everybody trying to blame Teague for the loss.”
And Bibby was 1 for 4 on jump shots in the second half, but everybody trying to blame Smoove’s shooting.
Bibby played like a third string point guard this entire game on both ends of the floor, but the entire post game discussion has been about Smoove, who was the single best defensive player on the floor for the vast majority of this game. It is what it is.
Dorrell
January 26th, 2011
11:45 pm
There’s nothing wrong with having your bigs bring the ball up the floor if they have the versatility and decision-making ability to do so. That gives you an advantage because of the mismatches it creates. Ib the case of Horford and Josh, I’m fine with that. Obviously, you don’t see Zaza, Powell, or Etan trying to bring the ball up. I don’t think it’s all Woody’s fault. Woody did a pretty good job of restraining Josh from playing out of his boundaries last year. However, unfortunately, Larry Drew has reversed that pattern with all of the “confidence” that he has in Josh.
superiorblogman
January 26th, 2011
11:46 pm
Josh Smith is pure garbage and I hope that he is traded soon. He is a SF on this team and his poor decision making and shooting is just not going to cut it
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
11:47 pm
Our immediate need before trade deadline is a PG, look at Bogut’s stat line, arguably the second best center in the East had a MODEST game of 8 pts, 14 boards, 1 block, 1 steal, and 1 assist.
What hurt us at the end was Earl Boykins running past Bibby at will, setting up teammates or getting fouled. I’m all for Bibby being our PG off the bench or even Bibby being shipped but we need a PG before that deadline because at the end with Jamal and Bibby being our BACKCOURT, I mean you just can’t expect to outshoot the opposition, you have to be ready to play D and get gritty in the playoffs and old legs won’t allow that.
Dorrell
January 26th, 2011
11:48 pm
Najeh,
Bibby usually does play like a third-string point guard. Can we even call him a point guard anymore? Our lack of serviceable point guards has long been our biggest weakness. Although, I can’t blame people for complaining about the bad shooting tonight either. Even if some of those shots by Smoove were open, 20 shots for a guy who isn’t a great offensive player is a lot of shots. Smoove’s shooting was only part of the problem though.
SteveW
January 26th, 2011
11:51 pm
Najeh – You are correct. You do sound like an apologist for Josh. Double digits? How about 8 seconds, 7 seconds, 6 seconds? That’s almost an eternity in the NBA. The argument does hold water. In a motion offense, blaming your shot selection on your teammates (and I’m not just talking about tonight) is stupid.
“Sorry I was 1-18 Coach, and jacking up jumpers from the 5 second line, but it was my teammates fault. They gave me the ball there, and you know, I just have to shoot”. That is just stupid. Think about it!!
So Teague has 4 assists in 13 minutes, and Bibby has 4 assists in 31 minutes. Teague has a +3 tonight, and Bibby has a -14. Bibby is in the game when the lead collapses in the 4th quarter. And the loss is Jeff Teague’s fault? Go figure.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2011
11:52 pm
Boykins may have burned Steve Nash, too, but Nash would have had the Hawks offense humming along, would have distributed the ball to teammates efficiently, and would have made shots. Now that Bibby is starting to cool off from 3, he is incapable of doing any of those things.
slimjr
January 26th, 2011
11:53 pm
8 mins into the 4th quarter against the lousy Buck, your Atlanta Hawks had score just 3 pts!!!!!! A reminder of why this franchise has never played in a CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES in 43 freakin years……
Trade Josh for Rudy Gay yesterday. JOSH WHY ARE you shooting 3’s in the fourth. You cant shoot…JUST STOP IT!!! You played a MAJOR ROLE IN LOSING AN 11 point lead.19-3 run buy the Bucks sealed it in the forth..Just brutal to watch the meltdown………………………………………..
SUND=FAILURE/ PAYOFF BEATDOWN #3 COMING……
Trent
January 26th, 2011
11:54 pm
It’s funny how only two games ago we were talking about how bad of a jump shooter Josh is, and two games later he comes out and reminds us that we’re right. Thanks a lot, Josh.
Ken,
If you get a chance to ask Jamal questions, ask him if he knows why Josh thinks he’s ray allen. LOL.
SteveW
January 26th, 2011
11:54 pm
The Hawks don’t seem to play well with alot of rest do they?
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:56 pm
“There’s nothing wrong with having your bigs bring the ball up the floor if they have the versatility and decision-making ability to do so.”
how many times have you seen Al Horford get caught in mid air not knowing where to go w/ the ball.. they can be equally as effective using there athleticism and speed sprinting up the floor ahead of their respective matchup.
i only mentioned to stress the importance of defined roles and my SteveW said that “Woodson had what it took to stand up to Josh”, when a lot of bad habits were homed under the Woodson regime..
now.. a great deal of why we see that is b/c of Mikes inability to push the rock and start the break..
superiorblogman
January 26th, 2011
11:57 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4sd4f5b
Josh Smith, Jeff Teague, and Jordan Crawford
for
Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, and Tony Allen
Jae Evolution
January 26th, 2011
11:57 pm
@ Najeh
Take a look at the Play-by-Play in the 4th after Smith comes in, here was the breakdown for him OFFENSIVELY: Offensive Foul Turnover, 3pt shot missed, jump shot missed, 3pt shot missed, layup shot made, jump shot missed, 3 pt shot missed.
In the final 8 minutes on offense, he committed a turnover took 5 jumpshots missed them all, and when he took it to the hoop for a layup? OH look at that he made it. This is why Josh is taking all this heat for playing dumb and living with jumpshots when he shouldve been taking it strong to the rack.
Ron
January 26th, 2011
11:58 pm
“Najeh – You are correct. You do sound like an apologist for Josh. Double digits? How about 8 seconds, 7 seconds, 6 seconds? That’s almost an eternity in the NBA. The argument does hold water. In a motion offense, blaming your shot selection on your teammates (and I’m not just talking about tonight) is stupid.
“Sorry I was 1-18 Coach, and jacking up jumpers from the 5 second line, but it was my teammates fault. They gave me the ball there, and you know, I just have to shoot”. That is just stupid. Think about it!!
So Teague has 4 assists in 13 minutes, and Bibby has 4 assists in 31 minutes. Teague has a +3 tonight, and Bibby has a -14. Bibby is in the game when the lead collapses in the 4th quarter. And the loss is Jeff Teague’s fault? Go figure.”
I’m with SteveW on this. Those are great points. I couldn’t agree more. The thing that annoys me the most though is the fact that no matter how much we complain about these things, they just keep happening over and over again, anyway. It’s almost a lost cause to ask for change, since apparently Drew doesn’t think these things are issues.
Worldwide Clyde
January 26th, 2011
11:58 pm
Our starters got ran out the gym by the Bucks B Team. What’s the excuse? Who is accountable?
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:58 pm
im telling yall.. @ this point b/c ur not getting consistent production.. Mike is a specialist.. someone you can bring in w/ that 2nd unit and give you quality minutes.. give you that pg presence if you will, while say a Jamal does the primary ball handling..
Bibby.. Jamal.. Marvin.. thats an ok.. 2nd unit to run out there..
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
11:59 pm
“The Hawks don’t seem to play well with alot of rest do they?”
no they dont.. i said that last week..
no more than 2 days..
i like the back to back birds..
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
12:01 am
“In a motion offense, blaming your shot selection on your teammates (and I’m not just talking about tonight) is stupid.”
Do the Hawks really run a motion offense? I can remember exactly one back screen they ran in this game.
Let’s face it, they don’t. LD has got them to share the ball better and run the ball through the post more consistently, and he deserves a lot of credit for that, but in no way is this a motion offense. We don’t see people cutting down the lane when the ball goes into the post. We don’t see people cutting along the baseline. We don’t see off the ball screens consistently. The last person on the Hawks who moved without the ball consistently wore #1 and had an afro.
“How about 8 seconds, 7 seconds, 6 seconds? That’s almost an eternity in the NBA. ”
If he is forcing these shots out of the flow of the offense, your criticism is completely warranted. If he is a significantly worse jump shooter than everyone else on the team, your criticism is completely warranted. If he has the handles to drive the ball with 8 seconds left and have a good chance of getting fouled, criticizing him for shooting a jumper is completely warranted. But none of these things are true. His handles frankly suck, he’s making jump shots at a better rate than Joe Johnson, and the vast majority of his shots are not being forced against good defense or out of the flow of the offense.
Worldwide Clyde
January 27th, 2011
12:01 am
Smoove and Al are the only ones that push the ball up the floor after after a rebound.
Jae Evolution
January 27th, 2011
12:02 am
bigdave
Co-sign 100%
We just need a starting quality PG, because lets face it, unless we bust out of this Jeckyll and Hyde mode and take 3rd or 2nd in the East we WILL be facing a Rose, Rondo, Nelson, Chalmers/Wade and Bibby won’t cut it.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
12:03 am
“when he shouldve been taking it strong to the rack.”
When has he shown you that he has the handles to take it strong to the rack consistently?
If his left hand gets cut off, he is screwed. He CANNOT DRIBBLE WITH HIS RIGHT HAND.
That first “jump shot missed” on that list? That happened when he drove to his left, got cut off, tried to go to his right, failed miserably as usual, and threw up an off balance prayer that went off the backboard and didn’t draw iron. Easily the worst shot he took all game, and it came off a drive.
Josh’s jumper > Josh’s handles. By far.
slimjr
January 27th, 2011
12:09 am
“Take a look at the Play-by-Play in the 4th after Smith comes in, here was the breakdown for him OFFENSIVELY: Offensive Foul Turnover, 3pt shot missed, jump shot missed, 3pt shot missed, layup shot made, jump shot missed, 3 pt shot missed.”
This is an Allstar in the making?????Not…..Trade this buster along with his buddy”DUCK” for DWILL yesterday.PG problem solved…
This is how Josh plays on the road in critical situations..He would like to ball like Ray Allen or Paul Pierce but guess what JOSH YOU ARE NOT TALENTED OFFENSIVELY ENOUGH TO TAKE OVER GAMES!!!!SORRY BUD BUT THE TRUTH HURTS. YOUR EGO IS YOUR STUMBLING BLOCK TO BECOMING AN ALLSTAR…..You try to many times to play outside your talent pool and you drown on the hardwoods.. This loss was mostly yours…..
superiorblogman
January 27th, 2011
12:09 am
Anyone taking up for Josh must either be getting there throat banged by him or a family member. The guy is the most ignorant basketball player in recent history. He can not shoot and his teammates should stop passing him the ball. We need a PG that will not pass him the ball unless he is within 5 feet of the basket or he will only continue to mess up the offense.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
12:13 am
Najeh – I do agree with many of the points off your last post. Now we both know JJ’s numbers are skewed because of his elbow injury. Look what he’s doing in January – shooting at 50 % and 38.5 % from the 3 point line. And JJ’s shots come many times with more hands in his face than Josh’s. I wouldn’t make Josh out to be a better jumpshooter than JJ just yet.
LD keeps saying he want’s Josh to have better shot selection. LD keeps saying we need Smoove to play powerfully in the low block. LD keeps publicly expressing frustration with these aspects of Josh’s game. It’s obvious to the Coach. It’s obvious to almost all fans. It, for what ever reason is just not obvious to you. And you are a great blogger, and an astute student of the game. It is much appreciated. Your just blind in this area evidently.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
12:17 am
And Woody had Josh only take 7 3 point shots all of last season. Woody can be blamed for many things, but don’t blame Woody for Josh’s poor shot selection. Woody was finally winning the battle of the wills with Josh. I wonder if LD will?
slimjr
January 27th, 2011
12:18 am
Josh took a bank shot and totally missed the rim in the 4th quarter!! He could not make that shot in practice. Just brutal……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Worldwide Clyde
January 27th, 2011
12:18 am
Josh Smith is just like a loud mouth chick in Atlanta. All they need is someone to put them in they place and everything will be alright.
Smoove does what he does because people allow it.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
12:18 am
Najeh – Maybe Josh should have been working on his driving to the hoop, dribbling with the right hand etc. as well as his shot over the summer.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
12:21 am
And when Josh gets the ball, shooting or driving are not the only options he has. He could make another pass. He is a great passer at times. So his options aren’t “should I shoot or drive. Since I can’t drive, guess I’ll shoot”. Make the pass!
superiorblogman
January 27th, 2011
12:27 am
I can’t see why anyone would be a true fan of the Hawks. They are flawed because they do not care to correct there flaws. Every year people whine about Marvin being inconsistent and a underachiever he could fix that by spending more time on his game instead of other things. Every year its Josh Smith’s ignorant play, crying, complaining, and jump shots, last year shows he could fix that if he wanted to. Every year you guys complain about Bibby, since Bibby is who he is the front office could fix that if they wanted to. We all see that Al is better off at PF, the front office could get a C if they wanted to. I could care less about being loyal to this team because they are not loyal to us
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
12:27 am
On a positive note, we do own Bogut don’t we? He does not play well against us this season.
And worse than Josh’s jumpers, the reason we lost was allowing the Bucks to get key offensive rebounds at the end of the game (the last 5 minutes). Maybe the ball was bouncing wrong, or maybe the Bucks just wanted it more.
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
12:31 am
We could have had Boykins in the off season. I’m concerned, because the Bucks did this to us without Salmone or Jennings.
And next season the Bucks get to roll Redd’s 18 mil. off the books, and they’ll be ready to sign some more good piece’s.
Wish the Hawks had that Larry Sanders. He could be a good one.
slimjr
January 27th, 2011
12:32 am
Josh should have been given for his 15th birthday a MAGIC JOHNSON DVD how to play fundamental basketball.Learn proper foot work, balance,squaring up,proper release and form for jump shooting. How to shoot all types of basic jump shots,dribble,pass,coming off screens, pick and roll,give and go,post up,drop steps,stop and pop, finger rolls at the rim..et al…TOO LATE NOW!! He’s already wired up at 25.. You can only tweak not dramatically change his ways now..
He gets easily rattled and frustrated because he is lacking in so many areas on the offensive end…
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
12:36 am
bigdave,
I hope we can get a starting PG next season, so we can bring Bibby off the bench (especially since I think we will lose Jamal).
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
12:40 am
Woody got Smoove to stop shooting 3’s largely because he played him at PF full time. Let’s not forget that Smoove took plenty of long 2’s last year and bricked most of them.
LD is playing Smoove at SF a lot this year, which takes him away from the hoop and gives him incentive to shoot more jumpers.
Unfortunately for the Hawks, the team as a whole seems to function better with Smoove at SF, even though Smoove himself doesn’t.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
12:41 am
“Maybe Josh should have been working on his driving to the hoop, dribbling with the right hand etc. as well as his shot over the summer.”
Fair point. Maybe he’ll work on that and get better at it next year. It sure would help if he could use his right hand to dribble as well as to finish.
Ahmad
January 27th, 2011
12:46 am
Let’s be honest here, people. What makes Josh a top-ten player at his position is what he does on the defensive end, as well as his rebounding. Offensively, he is below average. He doesn’t have a reliable jump shot, nor a post game. He doesn’t have good enough ball handling skills to drive to the hoop regularly, and he’s lacking in fundamentals, big time. The only reason Josh averages 16 ppg is due to the fact that he is a volume shooter. He takes way more shots than he should be taking. There is not another player in the NBA that takes more shots than Josh given the same level of offensive ability. If everyone had Josh’s mentality, Marcus Camby would probably be taking 20 shots a night and averaging 15 ppg, and Shaq would be chucking up threes. This guy needs to grow up and our coach needs to man up, stop blowing Josh, and discipline him. This is getting out of hand. It seems like every time the Hawks have a game, people are complaining about Josh’s poor decision making and shot selection/shot volume. Enough is enough, Josh. Learn your boundaries already.