Atlanta Hawks: Video: Talkin’ Teague and defensive toughness
I discussed the Hawks with CineSport’s Noah Coslov. This is my first crack at this video thing so don’t judge too harshly, blog people. There’s a reason I write instead of talk.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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137 comments Add your comment
JSS
January 26th, 2011
12:12 pm
And this is not being negative and I’ll say it again. Jeff Teague = Randolph Childress…
northcyde
January 26th, 2011
12:13 pm
All of you who cry and lobby for Teague, routinely fail to mention the other guy who plays the point for us.
JAMAL CRAWFORD
While he’s not the defender we need on the perimeter, he’s the attacking player in the backcourt that makes Teague’s limited skillset completely expendible.
As much of a turnover machine Jamal can be, he still doesn’t commit as many turnovers per 36 minutes as Teague does.
Teague’s mediocre defense is not enough to take minutes from either Bibby nor Jamal, because Teague doesn’t consistently make a defensive impact on a game. It’s funny how those defensive stats I posted are basically dismissed by the Teague backers. Talking that dude up like he has the potential to be Mookie Blaylock, when he actually defends like Eldrick Recasner ( who was a far better overall player than Teague )
As knowlegeable as some of you guys are, I’m baffled how some of you continue to believe that coaching is holding Teague back, and not Teague himself.
You’re expecting that kid to develop into an NBA caliber PG, when he didn’t even run the point for his college team. The leadership intangibles are nowhere to be found in tlhat dude. And it’s OBVIOUS.
And yes . . this is a situation in which you have to question the decision making in the front office, when you have a beast like Dejuan Blair staring you in the face that was a projected lottery pick, but you opt to take the 7th PG in the draft.
Teague is a management mistake, more than anything else. And that’s the same management that will NOT make a major trade before the trade deadline, pissing some of you off even more.
SteveW
January 26th, 2011
12:15 pm
Teague will be OK. LD and that whole Larry Brown coaching fraternity has high standards for young PG’s inparticular. Just give him some time. He’s working hard, and we took him as the “project by high upside pick”. If you remember, we really wanted Ty Lawson, who went 18th to Denver. Then it was a choice between Maynor and Teague. And since Maynor is basically just a younger Bibby wtih less talent than Bibby had at that point in his career, we went with Teague.
Teague’s going to be good if LD doesn’t destroy him.
Boston and rebounding – when it counts, Perkins, Shaq, O’Neal, and Garnett, with Big Baby and Pierce thrown in are going to be hard to rebound against. Think Doc’s worried about the stats right now? Nah.
And whoever wrote about the Hawks scoring in the playoffs, I co-sign that. That’s been a major problem our last 2 seasons, especially against the Cavs and Magic.
Ken Strickland
January 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
While WE all have our pet peeves when it comes to the Hawks, and WE complain about them endlessly, me included, I would like to state how proud I am of this team. They’ve had to deal with:
1-a new HC
2-a new OFF/DEF system and philosophy
3-injuries
4-an improved division and conference
5-the NBA’s 2nd toughest schedule
6-a 1st half schedule that’s been road heavy.
None of these were major issues last yr, yet we’ve managed to maintain last yrs won/loss pace. We’ve also managed to:
1- go from being dominated, and even embarrassed, in our matchups with Orlando, to defeating them 2 out of the last 3 meetings.
2-go on the road and convincingly defeat Miami, the team everyone was willing to annoint the new NBA champs before the season even started.
3-Come close to winning almost as many road gms at mid season as we managed to win all of last yr.
3-Become a much more accomplished half court team that does a good job of closing out gms, and seldom loses after surrendering huge leads, like the last 2yr.
WE can all whine, cry and complain all WE want, but LDrew has this yrs version of last yrs team doing an excellent job of overcoming a lot of obstacles, and a lot of what ailed us lthe ast 2yrs, to become a better team, especially on the road, and keep pace in wins. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
SteveW
January 26th, 2011
12:20 pm
Northcyde – I agree about Jamal. Once Jamal walks however (that Russian guy probably overpays for a 31 year G – 45m for 5 years is my guess), Teague will have had another summer to work and Bibby will be even worse next year (probably, unless he gets one of these elite Personal Trainers or something), and he’ll be ok next year, and ready to be the starter the next year.
Teague is really right on course. I think we all just wanted him to exceed expectations. But he was a project pick, and everyone acknowledged that at the time.
SteveW
January 26th, 2011
12:21 pm
Schedule – We also have more Home games the remaining part of the schedule than Chicago (like by 5 more) and the Magic.
Section 303
January 26th, 2011
12:29 pm
Sorry, guys, but I don’t get those of you who argue that Teague will work out. He won’t. There’s a reason guys don’t play. They’re not good enough.
Teague has his flashes of good plays, I’ll give you that. But, I could go to the D-League, blindfold myself, and pick a player at random who would have flashes of good plays, too.
Teague was a bad pick. That’s pretty much all that needs to be said.
Also, I’m still betting the Hawks make a move at the deadline.
northcyde
January 26th, 2011
12:30 pm
LMAO @ the NBA’s 2nd toughest schedule.
Try again Ken.
http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS
But I guess people will dispute this as well.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2011
12:32 pm
Northcyde
You said the same about AC Law and I accepted your reasoning, but this is too much off a coincidence.
Very few 1st year PG would be skilled enough to take minutes from Bibby or Jamal, but as a coach you have to see the bigger picture…We are not going to win a title with Bibby or Jamal running the point.
I have not accepted your defensive numbers about Bibby because we have never had a true sample of Teague as the starter, playing with the starters. The Bulls, Celtics, Heat and Magic all have younger more athletic PG. With Teague as the starter we might be a top #5 defensive, I don’t know, but I did watch the end of the Spurs game…..That is what we will face in the playoffs.
With that said…..I AM VERY HAPPY WITH LD AS OUR COACH AND I THINK IT WAS A GREAT HIRE
Section 303
January 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
Ken, good point.
I think we are all happy about where the team is (minus what I call the three debacle losses: Boston (Thanksgiving), at Detroit, Friday’s Hornets game). Their record is solid. A far cry from seasons of the not-so-far-in-the-past.
But, the East is going to be a battle (so tired of talking heads still ripping the conference). They need to get home court advantage in the first round. They’re going home quick without it. They cannot have another playoff flame out. Just can’t.
Section 303
January 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
northcyde, I really don’t give a sh#t about the schedule strength arguement. I don’t see where that fits in the NBA.
However, I will point something out….a lot of the teams at the top of that schedule strength are teams that are either not going to make the playoffs or go home quick. Minny strength of schedule is high. Could it be high because they don’t get to play Minny?
Bad teams are usually high on that thing just because they are bad team. All their games are hard. When you suck, you gain in the strength of schedule by simply not being able to play yourself.
That’s all I got on that. Really could, as Joe Johnson would say, “care less”.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2011
12:41 pm
@ SteveW,
I think Jamal is more likely to end up with his hometown Knicks. They can give us a trade exception (that we will never use) and a second round pick for him. Imagine the offense with Amare, Melo, Jamal and Felton. And imagine the defense.
@ MC,
As we get closer to the trade deadline, could you ask Rick or LD about the TPE they got from the Childress deal? Do they plan to use before the deadline, or wait until the season ends?
@ Ken Strickland,
According to some reports, the Hawks have played the second easiest schedule (in terms of the records of the teams the Hawks have played).
bigdave
January 26th, 2011
12:43 pm
different athletes go to college for different reasons. you can play, you’re good, so they give you a scholarship. most cases attending a college or university that you couldn’t afford otherwise. when the coaches recruit, they know potentially if the player can go after freshman yr. sophomore etc. college sports is a business. u can be a kid that values education/college experience pulling in a 4.0; coach can come in and say we’re changing our style of play, you might need to consider transferring. if you can take advantage of the deal and make it pro.. congrats. too many dont, and even fail to graduate.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2011
12:44 pm
Section 303,
I think Rick should bring in a PG on a 10 day contract to go up against Teague. That PG will work his tail off to get another 10 day contract, and maybe that will force Teague to step up his game even more in practice.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2011
12:47 pm
It has been reported that Woody and BK were not fans of drafting CP3 or Deron.
When Teague was drafted, Woody was still the HC, so I wonder how he felt about Teague. Did he think he was the right guy at #19, or was it completely Rick’s decision?
And if Woody was consulted by Rick, did he (in turn) consult LD?
I guess we’ll never know.
niremetal
January 26th, 2011
12:51 pm
O’B,
I think Jamal is more likely to end up with his hometown Knicks.
Jamal was born and raised in Seattle, not New York.
They can give us a trade exception (that we will never use) and a second round pick for him.
The Knicks have neither a cap space nor a trade exception. They cannot acquire Jamal unless they send us a player of comparable salary in return.
Miles D
January 26th, 2011
12:54 pm
The problem is not soley on Teague! How is a first round draft pick to get confidence by sitting on the bench? How can Teague be consistently effective without consistent MEANINGFUL minutes or a consistent role incorporated in the game plan on a nitely basis? Or, when he comes in the game and makes a mistake or two, coach immediately takes him out? Or, how about when he does come in the game and plays lights out.. doesn’t get rewarded with more PT but with DNP(coaches desicions) for the next couple games or so? Yet…when guys that have been in the league six, seven, or more years make the same mistakes coach leaves them in with no reprecussions! It’s like he’s scared to upset them!! LD is playin that favorites bullsh** and don’t have the balls to grab hold of the team! When JS is taking ill advise shot after shot, crying to the refs after every call, and wanna shot 3’s better than he can FT’s without a consistent post game at the PF position! When JJ and JC1 both don’t make enough committment on the defensive end (if you watch closely they just try to get in the way and purposely get cut off by picks for a convient excuse instead of fighting over it)! And its not just Teague, as we all know, but he does the same thing with JC2 and Josh Powell! If you wonder how Belichick wins games consistently with rookies its because of how he incorporates and tailors the game plan so that they know their roles!! Thats why the Hawks can be a team like Miami but get blow out at home against NO! THEY SIMPLY DON’T KNOW THEIR ROLES AND HOW TO EXECUTE BECAUSE THE GAME PLAN DOES’T SUITE THIER STRENGTHS!! Which in turn help gives them an identity! At some point LD needs to make a decision. Whether to coach a TEAM or MANAGE CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS! LET’S GO HAWKS!
northcyde
January 26th, 2011
1:02 pm
Rufus . . the numbers I cited on Sunday night, were those of Teague compared to other backup PGs in the league. Teague isn’t even slowing down backup PGs, so how in the world is he going to slow down the elite guys?
You guys are picking the few good plays he makes, ingraining them in your minds, and hoping he plays to that level. Key word: HOPE
But you dismiss the 75% of plays in which the kid is either a non-factor, or just isn’t getting the job done on offense or defense.
He’s nowhere near as good as even Mario Chalmers in Miami, who is a pretty good defensive PG.
So the logic is . . we’re not winning a title with Bibby or Jamal, so let’s hand over the reigns, or at least try to turn a guy who didn’t even run his college team, into a legit NBA PG.
( We tried to do that with Salim, by the way. And right now, Teague couldn’t hold a candle to Salim. )
Let’s live through the turnovers, the missed shots, the lack of defensive awareness . . because one day, this kid is going to be the next Rajon Rondo, even if he doesn’t have 5% of Rondo’s leadership intangibles.
But I’m done. I’m going to try my best to not to trash the kid anymore after this post. Just don’t be shocked if the Hawks don’t pick up the option on his contract after 2012 . . or if they decide to trade him altogether before then.
Coach Drew has my full support. He’s handling the Hawks exactly how they should be handled right now.
Ken Strickland
January 26th, 2011
1:16 pm
NORTHCYDE-You made the following comment:
“TEAGUE’S MEDIOCRE DEFENSE IS NOT ENOUGH TO TAKE MINS FROM EITHER BIBBY NOR JAMAL, BECAUSE TEAGUE DOESN’T CONSISTENTLY MAKE A DEFENSIVE IMPACT ON A GM.
WOW! Tell me, what kind of DEF impact do you think Bibby makes on a gm? Can you honestly say you’ve seem him make an actual DEF impact on a gm since his 07 midseason arrival? Like I said before, there’s a reason all NBA teams target him.
The reason your stats have been dismissed is because they’re very SUBJECTIVE, and don’t come anywhere close to overcoming what we’ve seen of his MATADOR DEF, gm after gm over the last 3ys with our own eyes. You’re saying Teague, who’s quicker, faster, more athletic, less experienced, but with more potential, should not be allowed to take mins away from Bibby, even though he’s our best DEF option at PG, even though as bad as you say Teagues DEF is, it’s still better then Bibby’s.
Keep in mind, Bibby’s DEF is crippling despite all of the gimmicks and gimmick DEF’s we;ve had to employed to hide his DEF liabilities. At least Teague’s DEF is good enough that we won’t require a host of defensive gimmicks to compensate for him. Giving Teague more mins, and using him in conjunction with Bibby and Jamal, is very simular to starting JCollins at center over Horford when the matchup is favorable.
Collins’ one on one DEF helps eliminates the need for double teaming the post, and allows everyone to stay with their man. This is done routinely with Collins and Horford, even though it’s a known fact that when we start Collins, he won’t provide much rebounding, scoring, or help DEF in the lane.
NORTHCYDE-Until you start actually watching Bibby’s attempts at playing DEF, and stop glossing over his defensive struggles and conjuring up some subjective arbitrary stats in his defense, you aren’t in a position to question anyone’s support of JTeague.
Mike is back
January 26th, 2011
1:18 pm
MC, I know I have been MIA…however great commentary on Teague. I think I kind of have a since of what LD is looking for from Teague…it’s about a mindset and defensive aggression.
My question is…how much preparation does Teague do before each game…how much time does he devote to studying the weakness of the opposing PGs in this league. Regardless, of whether he going to get some burn…HE SHOULD JUST DO HIS DO DILIGENCE AND BE READY…Heck, another teams GM…could be eyeing you…U NEVER KNOW.
It obvious Teague is lacking in preparation…Cuz he always attacks his opponents the same way on offense and defense no matter what their liabilities are…So we can’t blame everything on lack of PT…that something Teague can control.
Teague knows he has the talent and skill to play PG in the NBA…and I agree…But, what he lacks is the Mindset to be a starting PG.
Think it would behoove LD…to exercise a little more patients with Teague, Clearly dude confidence is shot.
In the NO game it was clear…when Teague went up against CP3…dude looked like he was on a recruiting trip at WF or sumin…he acted like didn’t he want any part of CP3…never showed any aggression. I’m thinking I’m about to see Teague and CP3 go at each other…it never happen…I would have thought that Teague would have relished an opportunity to go up against a legend from his old school…especially if you are trying to partition for more PT…got to admit I was surprised.
Teague it’s a long season…Keep your head up…AND JUST PLAY YOUR GAME…whenever you are on the floor…Word UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lewis
January 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
Trade Marvin before he gets injured again
Section 303
January 26th, 2011
1:38 pm
O’Brien, I think that’s a good idea. I have three questions, though: 1. Do the Hawks have room? 2. Would bringing in a D-League PG impact a potential trade move? 3.(probably most important question) Is Teague even good enough to bring a D-Leaguer in to try and push him? Teague may not be worth the effort.
I tend to pull for the D-League guys that come up to the league. That’s only natural, I guess…most people probably do.
Ken Strickland
January 26th, 2011
1:43 pm
OBRIEN-Since the Hawks play the same NBA teams with the same won/loss records that other NBA teams play, how can a teams won/loss record be the deciding factor in determining the difficultly of schedule? What makes the schedule difficult is when you play these teams, (back to backs, 4gms in 5 days) and to some extent where(home or away).The Hawks are 2nd only to the Bucks in the number of back to backs and 4gms in 5 days played in the 1st half of the season, and has played one of the highest number of 1st half road gms.
I’m not advocating benching Bibby and treating him the way Teague’s getting treated. But I am advocating using the talents and skills of both to get the job done. Both players have strengths and weaknesses, and we should be taking advantage of all each has to offer. I question the motives of anyone who criticizes Teagues DEF while making no mention of, nor showing any concern for, Bibby’s obvious DEF liabilities, and the gimmicks this team has had to employ over the last 2+yrs to try and compensate for them.
WHERE’S THE LOGIC?
northcyde
January 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
Like I said . . even when the strength of schedule fallacy is blown to bits, people still try to spin it some other way.
Everybody and their mama knows that we’ve played an extremely weak schedule so far. This has been documented with the Lakers as well.
So why even try to put a spin on it?
We’ve already played Jersey 3 times, but haven’t played the Bulls once. We’ve pretty much fed off of and dominated the lower half of the East. The same goes with the lower half of the West.
We’re taking care of business againt the weaker teams. But our SOS is what it is.
Hopefully all of this winning will still continue, once the competition gets a little stiffer.
I have no problem with our Boise St. like schedule.
I thank God for this schedule so far, because Lord knows that the schedule makers have flat out screwed the Hawks in the past.
terrell
January 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
Dr Mary, so now I’m obsessed with Teague? Whatever. lol! Way to go Mary B. Just making a point girlfriend.
terrell
January 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Jeff Teague CANT = Randolph Childress. Chilldress stayed at Wake all 4 years. Aint that right Dr Mary? Just kidding. lol!
terrell
January 26th, 2011
2:12 pm
Once you ruin a young pg’s confidence in the NBA, he’s basically TOAST! Same thing woulda happened to most pg’s had we drafted em. Hell, why yall think we passed on Deron and CP3?
terrell
January 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
Not comparing Teague to those 2, but we’re not known for player development. Hell, Horford only got to start when Zaza got hurt. That should be enough evidence right there. And Woody had no choice but to start Josh, or I’m sure he woulda rode the pine his damn self..
Rufus1
January 26th, 2011
2:17 pm
New blog up
northcyde
January 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
The REAL QUESTION IS
Why doesn’t this damn management utilize the D-League? We’ve had a number of players that were just rotting on the bench, that could’ve used a stint or two in the D-League.
Guys like Solo, Acie, Teague and Jordan should’ve definitely spent a few weeks ( or months ) in the D-League, just so they can hone their skills in live game action.
Forget Pape Sy . . send Teague to the D-League, and see if he can run a squad and excel on that level. Maybe then he’ll come back with some of those intangibles that he’s missing as a player. Jordan should already be down there.
ICECOLD
January 26th, 2011
3:04 pm
For those who bash Jeff league for not getting all this time and magically be a superstar ( or even a starter his first two years in the league… here are derrick fisher stats…. 6 championships!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3125/career
Some of the best point guards in the league in history didn’t even start until they third or fourth season!!! Not everybody can be a Chris Paul, d Williams, d rose, or even john wall, who by the way where all top 5 picks…. some players have to actually be molded to fit a team perfectly enough to support a team of all stars !! ( rajon rondo )
I know derrick fisher is not a hall of fame’er , and do believe Jeff teague is better then him, or eventually will be…
I rather get him in their when he is truly ready, then throw him in their because of raw talent… his time will come.. bibby deserves to be the starter and if we didn’t get him a few years ago… we wouldn’t be a elite team now!!! ( yeah I said elite )
Now on the other hand… Marvin gotta go, and zaza gotta go!!! They are too up and down.. they are not consistent , and for some reason, when zaza is in… it seam like the game slows down, teams start catching up, and the game gets harder for the hawks !!!
Just sayin…
slimjr
January 26th, 2011
3:24 pm
“According to some reports, the Hawks have played the second easiest schedule (in terms of the records of the teams the Hawks have played).”
They’ve played a ton of stiffs. But New Orleans was a warning of things to come real soon!!! Playoffs? PLAYOFFS???
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2011
3:59 pm
Strickland, if last week, the Hawks played the Celtics, Magic, Spurs and Lakers and the Bulls during that same week played the Nets, Wizards, T’wolves and Cavs… who would you say played the harder schedule? Sure, at the end of the year it all evens out (at keast within conferences), but during the course of the season some teams may have played better competition. It really isn’t a hard concept to understand. The Hawks can’t be blamed for playing the schedule the league gave them but let’s not debate the fact that they have played a softer set of teams through January 26 than all but one other team in the league.
Ken Strickland
January 26th, 2011
6:30 pm
ASTRO JOE-I see the point you’re trying to make, but 5 consecutive gms against winning teams does not a 1st half schedule make. Your 5gms stretch only represents a small part of a whole(season), or even a small part of a half(season). Actually, you made my point about WHEN you play these teams being a bigger factor than just playing them.
Now, a case can be made in favor of the Hawks having one of the easiest schedules for the rest of the season, since we’ve already completed 15 or 16 of our scheduled 23 back to backs, 4gms in 5 days, and the majority of our scheduled road gms. The only way for us to have an easy 2nd half schedule is for us to have had a difficult 1st half schedule.
If one follows NORTHCYDE’s way of thinking, playing the NBA’s 2nd highest number of back to backs gms, and 4gms in 5 days, along with more road gms than home gms, makes for one of the NBA’s easiest 1st half schedules. And anyone that dares to consider those factors in determining difficulty of schedule is simply SPINNING BS.
I realize some of you, in trying to make a point, are going to rely on any report or abitrary comment made by some so called expert, but I’m not afraid to think for myself and draw my own conclusions based on my knowledge and observations. My knowledge and observations tell me it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that playing on the road, playing back to backs, and playing 4gms in 5days, are the most difficult aspects of any NBA schedule, no matter what the records of the teams you’re playing might be. And if the Hawks rank at or near the top in each of those categories of DIFFICULTY, it makes for a DIFFICULT SCHEDULE..
rusty
January 26th, 2011
10:35 pm
MilesD I agree 100% with what you said. Nortcyde I agree about 5% what you say with your stupid stats
rusty
January 26th, 2011
10:45 pm
Yea nortcyde mb is perfect. How the he’ll can you say jt ever gets a fair chance?
yodaddy
January 28th, 2011
11:30 am
The problem with the Hawks Defense is CONSISTENCY. Consistency Consistency Consistency.
We’ll play some good defense for the first 3 quarters and then let Earl freaking Boykins, alll 5 foot nothing of Earl Boykins dominate and score 11 points in the 4th and the worst offensive team in the league to score 30 points in one quarter looking like the Harlem Globetrotters.
We’ll play good defense in the 1st quarter and then in the 2nd quarter completely collapse.
Josh Smith should play for the Cryami Heat because he is the league’s biggest crybaby. He’s crying after every play and when he’s not motivated the team looks horrible (Boykins blowing by Bibby and Josh pouting with his back turned as Earl makes a layup in the 4th quarter).
We get killed with Bibby, Jamal, Joe, Al & Josh in the game…call a timeout…and those same suckers are in the game when a substitution for Damien, Mo Evans, Jason Collins, Marvin Williams needs to be made.
Jason Collins rarely plays in the 4th quarter which is just dumb to me because he stabilizes the defense.
Lastly…our team is too nice. We need people that will get in your face. Someone needs to fight Josh Smith at practive….someone needs to take it upon themselves to stop a run with an unneccesarily hard foul. Somebody needs to get upset because we are taking these losses a little too lightly. Get beat by 41 at home and all you can say is “this happens sometimes in the NBA” ???????????
No the FREAK it doesn’t….it rarely happens and it’s some bulljunk when it does happen.