Atlanta Hawks: They should soon be whole again
Al returned to practice today. Marvin was cleared for contact (though there was no contact today). J.J. (knee) and Smoove (knee) sat out, but since the former finished the game Saturday at Charlotte after he banged his knee and the latter played Saturday after he was dinged on Friday they both should be good to go.
“For the most part, I think everybody is going to be OK,” L.D. said. “Should have everybody back tomorrow.”
It’s been a minute since he could say that. The regular starters (Bibby, J.J., Marvin, Smoove and Al) have been available at the same for just 21 games (19 games as the starting unit and the two games when Marvin came off the bench). It hasn’t happened since Dec. 29. Add super sub Jamal to the mix and the Hawks have had their top six available for just 15 games.
So how are the injured guys feeling?
Al: “It’s getting there. I was able to do pretty much the whole practice. It looks good for Wednesday.”
Joe: “It’s still a little sore today so I just wanted to get treatment today and take advantage of these few days off. I don’t know what happened [on the play]. I thought my knee hit the floor during the play. I don’t really remember. I know it just got banged.”
Marvin: “I feel good. I haven’t had any pain probably in a week now. I am starting to get my strength back, my conditioning is coming back. I am excited.”
Smoove, smart vet that he is, used a J.J. screen in the locker room to shake us media types and slipped off into the players’ area. The Hawks said Josh suffered a hyperextended knee against the Hornets. He seemed to walking without much trouble.
Josh Powell practiced today, too, after L.D. suspended him for the Charlotte game. No word on the details of their conversation following the New Orleans game. Players were surprised to learn on the team plane that Powell wouldn’t be making the trip.
L.D. said that’s the end of it: “Everything is back to normal. It is not one of those situations of making it a prolonged thing. There is no grudges. I’ve still got to coach him; he’s still my player. We will go back to business as usual. I think that’s the way you handle it, the way you deal with it.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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144 comments Add your comment
Rufus1
January 25th, 2011
11:01 am
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2011/01/atlanta-hawks-defy-percentages.html
Ra'mon
January 25th, 2011
11:38 am
I will say as a fan of Josh Smith, it would be very interesting to see how he would play under George Karl. I think he would excel with him. However, with Kenyon Martin still on the roster, I don’t see the Nuggets making a move for another PF.
Rufus1
January 25th, 2011
11:56 am
Ra’mon
I think martin’s contract expires at the end of the year
RMan
January 25th, 2011
12:14 pm
How about a shake ‘em up trade with Golden State (who’s unbalanced and rumored to be open to moving pieces for a top name in return)? They send us Curry, Biedrens and Udoh. We send them Josh, ZaZa and Jeff. Seems to be balanced for both sides and addresses principal needs of both teams. You have to give to get…
O'Brien
January 25th, 2011
12:21 pm
Ra’mon,
Also, Kenyon Martin can’t stay healthy.
drmary,
Boxers or briefs was a good one too.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
12:50 pm
Props to Big Ray for his string of posts in the last 24 hours.
At some point, fans just have to see things as they really are. It took me 2.5 years to see it with Salim, and 1.5 years to see it with Acie.
At some point, when you see guys doing the same things over, and over, and over again, you have to seriously consider if the REAL PROBLEM is how the player is used . . or the player himself.
I always thought that Salim was a much more talented player than Tyronn Lue. But what guy made all the plays? What guy made all of the open shots? Despite his absolutely woeful defense, it was obvious that Lue was much more of an asset than Salim.
At some point, I simply had to wake up.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
1:08 pm
@ SteveW
Once again, you have to look at the circumstances that a player is in, and how he can be developed.
In 2003 – 05, David West had guys like Lee Nailon, Rodney Rodgers, and on occasion PJ Brown playing in front of him. Not necessarily high quality players or potential 6th man of the year candidates there.
Those New Orleans teams in that 2 season span went 41 – 41 . . and 18 – 54 respectively ( which is why they were even in position to obtail a Chris Paul in 05 – 06 in the first place ).
And West didn’t get a chance to get major playing time, until Rodgers and Nailon were moved out of NOLA.
New Orleans was NOT a playoff team looking to make a deep run in the playoffs. They were a developing team simply trying to find players who they could count on in the future.
It’s simply a big difference in mindset.
A playoff contender isn’t going to waste a lot of time in the development of a player, if that team have players who are more effective than the developing player.
The developing player, in a lot of cases, simply has to wait until people are moved out, before he gets major minutes to prove himself.
Some guys don’t need those minutes to prove their worth. Others do. But for the ones that do, they better hope the better players in front of them move onto other teams . . or the player improves so much, that the coach HAS to play him.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
1:13 pm
My bad . . . the Hornets were 18 – 64 in West’s 2nd year.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
1:14 pm
My bad . . the Hornets were 18 – 64 in West’s 2nd year.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
1:27 pm
As for the Melo rumor, I’d definitely bring him in for a one year shot to make a run at a title.
99% of Hawks fans believe that this team, as constructed right now, cannot make the NBA Finals. Does that change next year . . or the year after that?
Because of our center situation, I think the one person we can’t trade, is Al Horford. But both JJ or Smith are expendible, in a possible deal for Melo . . even just for one year.
Melo replaces the scoring that JJ gives us, and gives us a better “go-to guy”. If it’s Smith for Melo, Melo is a much better and more active scorer around the rim, than Smith is. Plus Melo can get to the line much better than both JJ and Smith. Melo would instantly become our best post up guy.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
1:33 pm
If the lineup is Al – Josh – Melo . . we arguably assemble the best frontcourt in the league. Drew would probably opt to start Mo Evans and Bibby at the guards. And you’d still have Jamal and Marvin to bring off the bench.
Of course, the issue would be perimeter defense even more, with that lineup. Evans and/or Damien would be the best perimeter defender on the team, and might have to play during crunch time.
C – Horford
PF – Smith
F – Melo
G – Evans
PG – Bibby
6th – Jamal
7th – Marvin
8th – Zaza
9th – Damien
10th – Collins/Teague
This is assuming that Denver would take on JJ’s enormous contract, which I would dobut it.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
1:47 pm
If the lineup is Al – Melo – JJ, you now have 2 bonafide scorers on the team, with a 3rd in Jamal.
With this lineup, a good coach would probably leave one of JJ or Melo out on the floor at all times, much like Miami does with Wade and Lebron, and the Lakers do with Kobe and Gasol.
I’m assuming that if the guy that’s traded is Smith, we may have to add a few more people to the mix, in order to make the deal work. So say we add Evans and Teague to that deal.
C – Horford
PF – Melo
F – Marvin
G – JJ
PG – Bibby
6th – Jamal
7th – Zaza
8th – Damien
9th – Collins
10th – Jordan
The wild card with this lineup, is Marvin. While Melo can offensively play PF, there may be defensive issues on the frontcourt. So Marvin would really have to step up as a defender and as a rebounder, in order to justify him still starting. If he does, this lineup becomes very dangerous. If he doesn’t, we’d be forced to start Collins, which would give us a much better balanced look, but less offensive production.
C – Collins
PF – Horford
F – Melo
G – JJ
PG – Bibby
6th – Jamal
7th – Marvin
8th – Zaza
9th – Damien
10th – Jordan
Collins as the starter is probably the more formidible lineup, with Horford and Melo at the forwards.
Westurd
January 25th, 2011
1:49 pm
Melo to Atlanta is horrible. Melo is a ball hog that will blow our offensive system up. He is good on a team full of one v one ballers, but wouldn’t fit well in the A. He has a huge name and puts up big points, but he is not our ideal trade. He is going to take the ball out of Al and Joshs hand and also JJ’s and Jamals should they not be part of a trade….I don’t like Melo in Atlanta……I would rather have Curry personally.
Either way we are destined to hover around the 4 or 5 spot all season. Hate to love ya…Go Hawks!
CYATES1
January 25th, 2011
1:51 pm
But if Teague could play anywhere CLOSE to Billups, Iverson, or Mark Jackson, then I don’t think you’d see LD “holding him back”. Most of what’s holding Teague back is within himself.
I give you that one but you also have to let him play through the mistakes as well beacuse L.D. pulls him right after a mistake so in his head he is thinking that he has to play perfect which is affecting his game. I say if he has confidence in him let him play through the mistakes. J-Smoove had to play through some mistakes to get where he is so let the kid play.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2011
1:52 pm
“They send us Curry, Biedrens and Udoh. We send them Josh, ZaZa and Jeff. ”
I saw this on Bill Simmons’ Twitter a couple of days ago. It’s not an unfair trade, but I would lean against doing it, mainly because Biedrins is so injury prone and such a liability at the free throw line that you can’t rely on him to play big minutes. And without him, that trade would leave the Hawks seriously deficient defensively.
CYATES1
January 25th, 2011
1:54 pm
Melo to Atlanta is horrible. Melo is a ball hog that will blow our offensive system up. He is good on a team full of one v one ballers, but wouldn’t fit well in the A. He has a huge name and puts up big points, but he is not our ideal trade. He is going to take the ball out of Al and Joshs hand and also JJ’s and Jamals should they not be part of a trade….I don’t like Melo in Atlanta……I would rather have Curry personally.
I agree I believe that we do not need Melo cause he plays no defense. Given that J-Smoove is prone at times but at least he plays defense. We need more bigs so that Horford can play his natural spot and have Marvin come off the bench to have another scoring option other than JC1. That would help us substantially.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2011
1:55 pm
“If the lineup is Al – Josh – Melo . . we arguably assemble the best frontcourt in the league. Drew would probably opt to start Mo Evans and Bibby at the guards. And you’d still have Jamal and Marvin to bring off the bench.”
That would be a really weak back court to the point that it would hold the front court back, but check the trade machine link I posted earlier and see what you think.
CYATES1
January 25th, 2011
1:57 pm
Melo replaces the scoring that JJ gives us, and gives us a better “go-to guy”. If it’s Smith for Melo, Melo is a much better and more active scorer around the rim, than Smith is. Plus Melo can get to the line much better than both JJ and Smith. Melo would instantly become our best post up guy.
Melo maybe a better scorer than Josh but Josh plays better defense. I don’t see Melo on any All-Defensive teams anytime in his career. And what good is scoring if you can’t stop anybody. That to me is what the team needs to work on is the defensive end cause the hawks offense takes care of itself unless it goes to “iso-joe” mode.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2011
1:58 pm
“Melo to Atlanta is horrible. Melo is a ball hog that will blow our offensive system up. He is good on a team full of one v one ballers, but wouldn’t fit well in the A. He has a huge name and puts up big points, but he is not our ideal trade. He is going to take the ball out of Al and Joshs hand and also JJ’s and Jamals should they not be part of a trade”
These are exactly the same things people said about LeBron and Wade joining forces in Miami, or for that matter Joe adapting to a non-iso offense.
Great players can play in any system. Melo is not Antoine Walker. He plays the way he does because he is on a team that requires him to play that way. Bring him here and he would fit in fine.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
2:06 pm
Westurd . . a scorer like Melo is supposed to take the ball out of people’s hands. Josh doesn’t need to be shooting jumpers. He needs to be active around the rim. And this team wastes possessions trying to get other ineffectibe scorers their shots.
On a team like ours, Melo would understand that he doesn’t have to do it all offensively. What he would give you though, is another great offensive weapon that teams would be forced to double, which frees up other guys.
I doubt this rumor is true. But if it is, and the Hawks can deal for that guy, they would be CRAZY not to.
In the NBA, the formula for winning a title is usually this:
- 2 All-Star ( preferably All-NBA players ), with a 3rd player who is a borderline All-Star . . and one of the 2 All-Stars is an MVP candidate
- a top 10 defensive team ( preferably top 5 )
- a top 10 offensive team
That’s pretty much been the characteristics of every NBA champion for the past 30 years. You don’t win titles with just good players. You need stars.
Even with the anomoly(sp) that people love to cite ( the 2004 Pistons ), that team had 2 All-Star caliber guards in Billups and Hamilton, and a dominant defensive/rebounding center in Ben Wallace, who was an All-Star talent in that regard . . along with a premier perimeter defender in Prince, and a very good offensive and defensive big man in Rasheed.
GREAT alent wins titles . . not GOOD talent.
Geemack
January 25th, 2011
2:19 pm
northcyde
You’re a fan and you realize what it takes to win a championship.
It seems that in the 4 plus decades this franchise has been in Atlanta.
Someone would have duplicated that formula at least once by now.
40 something years in Atlanta, and the Atlanta Hawks have never played for an NBA championship, or competed in the Eastern Conference finals. SMH
Rufus1
January 25th, 2011
2:32 pm
Melo or Curry
ASG would do either one of those trades if they had the chance…for the simple reason, we are not drawing enough fans. ASG are business men 1st, and the improvement of their business is primary.
IF WE LOSE IN THE PLAYOFFS WE THE SAME TEAM, NEXT YEAR WE WILL DRAW LESS FANS!
I would prefer the Curry deal…with Curry, Amundson and Gadzuric(expiring contract) for Josh, and Teague.
That would eliminate our PG problem and give us money to sign a player next year for maybe the MLE.
slim
January 25th, 2011
2:35 pm
Melo=Star
Josh/Marvin= not….These two will never take the Hawks to the next level, ECF.. Not talented enough! Your guard play can only take you so far then the front line has to step up and close the deal..The Small forward today is super critical! He has to be a scorer and play good defense to boot! That’s where I would invest in. We need another point guard like Mookie. I am sure hes out there..Go get one from the D League if you have to..This is were the GM directs his scouts to go look for talent in all the right places… It’s the job of the scout to find them…
Sund, Go get Devin Harris yesterday!!!
Rufus1
January 25th, 2011
3:32 pm
Quote from kobe
Maybe someone should send a copy to Melo before he decides to go to New York.
“We’re not a fastbreak team by any stretch of imagination,” Bryant said. “But fastbreaks don’t win championships anyway. If they did, Phoenix would’ve won a bunch.”
Grandad
January 25th, 2011
4:46 pm
Najeh;
I’ve been lookin’ @ Curry scenario’s all day.
Regardless of defensive deficiencies,
we cannot overlook any opportunity to get in on Curry.
If we could steal him with Marv + JC2 + Teague + Pcks & filler,
then all the better. The great thing about Curry is he would be
such a perfect fit in LD’s offense [pg]. Git ‘er done!
(I know, I know…..GS would never fall for that)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
[from 3:26 AM] *bizarro meds could’t sleep*
I’m callin’ out anyone who read my earlier post:
Why is Larry Brown LD’s mentor?
The Truth
January 25th, 2011
5:01 pm
Q&A
Q: Why can’t the Hawks win more games in the playoff?
A: Because of an uneven roster with too many jump shooters is at the root of the problem. However, this could change starting with JJ relying more on his midrange, floaters, and in-the-paint game and less on his long range high-degree-of-difficulty shooting. Since our Alpha-dog JJ has the lowest FG% among the Hawks starters including Jamal, it is essential for him to improve this stat if there is any hope of advancing further in the playoff. He ranks 92 in the league out of 121 players in FG% at 43.4%. With so much of our offense going through JJ, regardless of the much hyped “motion offense” his shooting % alone should explain our inconsistency in the playoff. Also, while we all cringe each time Josh takes that jumper from the perimeter; we really should cringe when JJ takes a 3-pointer attempt. JJ is ranked 121 in 3-pt % at 29.7% out of 125 active players in the league. Actually Josh is ranked much better at 62 shooting 37.6%. Maybe this explains why he’s not afraid to take them. If anything Bibby should be the 3-pt taker since he ranks 4th at 46.3%. This is perhaps the most revealing reason why Bibby starts over Jeff Teague given that LD is an offense-minded coach. He is a very high % shoot-maker, so enough said. With JJ, Bibby, Marvin, Jamal and now even Josh shooting all those jumpers, actually where does the points in the paint comes from, Al Horford? Though he is the most efficient starter who ranks 9th in league, he does most of his damage with a pick and pop midrange game and less scoring the paint. So the Hawks uneven scoring distribution is linked to the core players’ style of game. We need a core player committed to doing damage exclusively in the paint (scoring, rebounding, defending, etc.) If that can’t happen because of long-term commitment with these players, then by committee, each player should go against their tendency, make the effort to score more in the paint for the Hawks to change the playoff outcome.
Q: Would Melo game gel with the Hawks?
A: If anyone watched Melo play, you know that he can also fall in love with his jumper, but when called upon, he can be a “pit-bull” in the paint against his defender. So, yes, compared to the Hawks current roster Melo would definitely compliment the Hawks needs. But since talking Melo addition to Hawks is drifting in fantasy basketball, I’ll leave it at that.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2011
5:08 pm
If the Hawks could give up their trash to get a player like Curry, I’m all for it. I’m not necessarily for giving up the defensive anchor of this team to get him though.
Jamillion
January 25th, 2011
6:21 pm
& after u give them that for melo give phoenix the rest 4 nash
slimjr
January 25th, 2011
6:23 pm
it has just been reported on the PTI broadcast at 6:20pm today 01-25-11, that DWILL is unhappy in UTAH!!!!!
Rick Sund did you read that?????? Go get him yesterday…If you are ready to win the “big one”?????????????????????
Jamillion
January 25th, 2011
6:33 pm
Y do any of you think the hawks have to give up any of their better players for melo? When melo can be had for nothing since he gone bolt any way give them duck or jc plus picks. And give the other to phoenix for nash pick and a player. Then u have a championship team
Jamillion
January 25th, 2011
6:37 pm
Now that a be some championship basketball nash jj melo josh & al. The real core make that happen
jason
January 25th, 2011
6:38 pm
iguodala?
Jamillion
January 25th, 2011
6:43 pm
Sorry iggy doesn’t make us better
Worldwide Clyde
January 25th, 2011
6:44 pm
All this trade talk makes me laugh. Yall know good and well the Spirit Group ain’t got the balls to make a major trade.
Jamillion
January 25th, 2011
6:47 pm
Yeah Clyde only if i was gm we’ll be champions
Ramon
January 25th, 2011
7:15 pm
I would trade Al Horford, JC1, and a first for D Williams in a blink of an eye and take my chances. Al becomes the new Malone under Sloan. And Williams becomes half of the best back court in the NBA with Joe Johnson. In a short instance, you just balanced out your roster, and upgraded your half court offense.
northcyde
January 25th, 2011
7:31 pm
LOL @ Iggy doesn’t make us better.
Why not?
That dude basically is asked to do the same things in Philly, that JJ does in ATL. The only exception is that Iggy’s jumper is schizophrenic as hell. If Iggy could shoot, he’d be better than JJ.
But you add Iggy to the Hawks, and subtract either Jamal or Marvin ( + fillers ), the Hawks instantly become a top 10 . . possibly as high as a top 6 or 7 defensive team in the NBA.
Add Iggy to the Hawks, and we now have someone who can guard Wade, while JJ, Marvin, and Smith take turns guarding Lebron. Instead of JJ having to do everything defensively out on the perimeter, Iggy could take on some of those responsibilities.
Iggy is a top 10 SG/SF in the NBA. But he wouldn’t help us?
Man please.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2011
7:53 pm
New video blog up. Oh snap!
TRADE 4 NASH
January 26th, 2011
2:57 am
what a trad
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
TRADE 4 NASH
January 26th, 2011
2:58 am
*trade
TRADE 4 NASH
January 26th, 2011
2:59 am
sory
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5w22dm4
i_am_soulstar
January 26th, 2011
10:07 am
Melo would be nice, but I’d rather work a trade for Gerald Wallace. That is the highest quality player that fits what the Hawks are doing, and that we could obtain without having to give up JJ, Josh, or Al.
He provides a need with rebounding and defense, and with he and Josh in the starting line-up, the Hawks instantly become an improved defensive team. On top of that, the guy just makes very good decisions, which is my biggest knock on Marvin sometimes. He would put the Hawks right up there with the Celtics and Heat (IMO).
ESPN Trade Machine says we’d drop down 2 wins if you trade him straight up for Jamal, but i don’t see it happening if you bring JC2 into a consistent off the bench scoring role.
Diego
January 26th, 2011
11:41 am
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=49efsse
Nash/Bibby
JJ/JC1/JC2
Marvin/Mo/Damien
Horford/Powell
Robin Lopez/Collins/Zaza
= Championship
Diego
January 26th, 2011
11:43 am
We can throw in a pick too