Game thread, Hawks-Bobcats
Charlotte – Greetings, all. MC is taking the day off. Watching, literally, one of the worst performances of NBA basketball in league history can take its toll. (Just kidding. It was planned all along to give him a break.)
Some stunning numbers from the number crunchers at Elias Sports Bureau, via ESPN:
It was the first time in NBA history that a team that was at least 10 games over .500 going into the game lost at home by 40 or more points.
It was the team’s second-lowest point total in club history in the shot-clock era, going back to a 1955 loss to Boston when they were the Milwaukee Hawks. I think that was Jason Collins‘ rookie year.
It was the fewest points by a home team since Miami scored 56 in a loss to Utah Dec. 2001.
The Hawks’ 29.1 field-goal percentage was the lowest by an NBA team this season and the team’s lowest in any game since moving to Atlanta.
Yowzers.
Let’s see what basketball-reference.com can tell us about the games following those majestic collapses. After the Milwaukee Hawks lost to Boston in 1955, they lost the next game (a back-to-back) to Philadelphia 101-84.
After the Heat lost 95-56 to Utah, they lost the next game 86-81 to Cleveland in overtime. The Cavs shot 37.5 percent and the Heat shot 35.2 percent. Goodness gracious. I believe that was the year the NBA experimented playing games with yoga balls.
After the Hawks lost 118-74 to Phoenix in March 2000 – the last time the Hawks lost by that many points at home – they followed it up going on the road and losing to Houston 115-93 on their way to a nine-game losing streak. Your starting five against Phoenix –Dikembe Mutombo, Alan Henderson, Jason Terry, Roshown McLeod, Jim Jackson.
Sorry I don’t have more information to offer you right now. I’m in my hotel room right now and will be on the way to the arena in a little bit.
About the Bobcats – they’ve won their last two and six of their last nine. Guard D.J. Augustin went for 31 in their 100-97 win over Philly Thursday. Hawks tormentor Gerald Wallace – he had 11, 25, 20 and 28 last year – only had six against the Sixers, so he might be ready to pop a little bit. He missed the Hawks’ first game with Charlotte this season.
This is totally not relevant to the discussion, but Wallace killed it last year against the West. He had 45 in two games against Denver, 48 against Golden State, 49 against the Clippers, 50 against Phoenix, 66 against Sacramento and 57 against Utah. But, anyway, his 21.0 against the Hawks was tied for second highest of any team in the East.
Joe Johnson’s 16.7 ppg against Charlotte last year was tied for third-lowest of any team in the league. (Orlando, then Philadelphia and tie with Toronto)
Josh Smith did fairly well last year against Charlotte – 52.8 field-goal percentage, 15.8 ppg and 7.8 rpg. Interestingly (well, you can decide that), Smith is having his best scoring and rebounding month thus far in January at 16.9 and 9.8, but his worst shooting month, 40.6 percent.
O.K., enough nerding out. I’ll be back in a little while.
Ken Sugiura, Hawks writer
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221 comments Add your comment
kwooden1
January 22nd, 2011
9:43 pm
Great game, by Joe, bad game by Capt. Jack and Wallace. Liked LD mixing in zone and going small with Wilkins playing a lot of minutes. I knew the guys were embarrassed last night and would come with some energy, but I didn’t think they would win by double-digits.
In terms of Teague, I will defend LD in this respect. Teague just isn’t playing good enough defense to warrant significant minutes over Bibby and Jamal. Teague wasn’t overwhelmingly great in the minutes he got earlier in the year, so LD is choosing to go with guys that produce. Jamal and clearly aren’t great defenders and are even worse together on the court, but Teague hasn’t proven to be significantly better on defense and he’s offensive isn’t nearly as good as those guys. I like what Jeff brings to the table and I think he will be an asset for this team this year. Hopefully he will get some minutes and find his groove over the next few games.
GO HAWKS
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
January 22nd, 2011
9:43 pm
yeah…wow…N.O. is rolling (atleast for the moment..1:46 left in the 3rd up 23)
northcyde
January 22nd, 2011
9:45 pm
@ drmaryb
Exactly. He’s obviously done something to have Drew not trust him at all.
Drew has been a player/coach for over 30 years, yet, some still give Teague the benefit of the dobut, and may like the coach has something against him.
If Drew felt that Teague could consistently help this team, he’d be playing.
If people keep it real, we all knew that something was up with Teague, going all the way back to the summer league game in which he melted down.
He was never a true PG. So if this is the beginning of the end for him, so be it.
Melvin
January 22nd, 2011
9:54 pm
OB,
Hawks need a PG that will take pressure/reasonability off our SGs. They’re expecting Joe, Jamal and Mo to cover for Bibby flaws every night. On defense, Joe/Mo has to guard the other teams PGs b/c of Bibby lack of defense. Offensively, Joe/Jamal usually handles the ball while Bibby spot up on the perimeter for open shots. To me, Bibby deficiency is causing the Hawks too many adjustments for a guy who’s a starter and plays 35+ mins nightly.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 22nd, 2011
9:54 pm
“I just don’t get the “semi-obsession” with Teague.”
The “semi-obsession” with Teague is because everybody and their momma knows that a) the Hawks are severely limited by Bibby’s inability to create shots for his teammates or play D, and b) you can’t waste one draft pick after another in the NBA and expect to maintain long term success. No matter how good he is as a 3-point shooter, Bibby is a below average starting point guard right now and is only going to get worse. The Hawks’ future success depends on their ability to find someone who can start at point guard and play better than Bibby.
As far as Teague is concerned, there are two options — either he sucks and Rick Sund wasted a draft pick on him, or he is actually good and LD is messing up the Hawks’ future by not developing him. One way or another, someone in Hawks management has screwed up when it comes to Teague, and someone has to rectify the situation. Either LD needs to play Teague more and develop him into a reliable starter, or Sund needs to make a trade to get a point guard on this team who can become that reliable starter.
Maybe the Hawks write off Teague and make the Nash trade to stabilize the point guard situation. Maybe the Hawks give Teague more playing time and he develops into a solid player. Sh-t, maybe the Hawks give JC2 time at the point and he develops into a solid point guard. It doesn’t really matter to me what it takes, but if this team really wants to contend, Bibby is neither a short-term solution nor a long-term solution as a starting point guard.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 22nd, 2011
9:55 pm
On an unrelated note, Monty Williams has to be the coach of the year right now, doesn’t he? No freaking way the Hornets should be even close to this good based on the talent they have on their roster.
SteveW
January 22nd, 2011
9:58 pm
All I know is is that LD is supposed to be the guy developing PG’s on this team since ‘04, and he’s had Acie at #11 (who’s finally doing pretty good in the rotation at GSW), Teague at #19. Salim @ #31. and Royal Ivey in the 2nd round, and has done nothing with them. Now it could be the players, or it could be a mental issue with LD, IDK.
And at Washington before that, the only guy he developed was Ty Lue. I think it’s on LD, but that’s my opinion. We need to get Teague outta here and get someone who can help us if LD is not going to develop the kid.
Start Teague the next 10 games, like you did ZaZa tonite, and you might like the results. We know Teague is not going to get a challenge in practice on Bibby and Jamal guarding him. Throw him to the NBA wolve’s, and I think he’ll grow up.
northcyde
January 22nd, 2011
9:58 pm
There you go San Antonio. Show everybody how “good teams” never get beat down. Down 25 now. They have a decent bench, so they may not lose by that much.
I’d love to see the Hornets beat them by 35 or so, just to see the national media reaction to it.
Tim Duncan 2-11 . . . Manu has a +/- of ( -29 )
ISH HAPPENS.
SteveW
January 22nd, 2011
9:58 pm
Najeh – Cosign on that
Melvin
January 22nd, 2011
10:00 pm
northcyde,
my 9:54 post was for you and not OB….
OB,
sorry about that.
Worldwide Clyde
January 22nd, 2011
10:33 pm
Drew is turning into Woody.
I remember when he was first hired he said the Hawks needed a change at the point guard position. Now he’s changed his mind and his rotation is just like Woody’s. We all know Woody’s way didn’t work so why is Drew doing the same things.
Playing your starters heavy minutes during the regular season equals fatigue during the playoffs. That’s why you have to develop your bench if you like it or not.
I think Drew needs to look at the big picture when it comes to Teague.
FIRE SUND
Melvin
January 22nd, 2011
10:35 pm
I wonder what the Hawks record in those Red uniforms this season. They may be undefeated in them…
northcyde
January 22nd, 2011
10:37 pm
Teague was the 7th PG picked in the draft. With a lottery pick talent like Dejuan Blair sitting right in our face he should’ve been the pick.
So yeah, it simply could’ve been a bad pick. He was one of the PGs in that draft that was more of a 2 guard than anything.
NBAdraft.net rated his defense as a 6 . . . which is a below average rating for them. That dude had “red flags” all over the place . . from his low trajectory on his shot . . to his fairly low assist total ( 3.5 a game ) . . from his on the ball defense.
But he was ultra quick, athletic, and could supposedly score . . so we just “had” to take him as a PG.
So what have we’ve gotten in 2 years?
- lack of assertiveness and leadership
- flashes of his athletic ability, especially in the open court
- above average number of turnovers
- sporadic jumpshootng
- ability to make nice passes on occasion
- poor defensive awareness in the halfcourt
- good help defense
It’s a mixed bag from him, with some of his negatives being GLARING negatives.
My main problem with him, is I don’t think he’s a leader. Most of your successful NBA PGs do not have to be taught how to lead, even if they have faults in their actual on court game.
Rondo was a leader, who needed his talent developed. So was Deron Williams. You show me a young PG that fails in the NBA, and I’ll show you a guy that is not a leader.
O'Brien
January 22nd, 2011
10:43 pm
Great win for the Hawks.
“People want him to trim Bibby’s minutes , but that ain’t happening as long as Bibby is a consistent contributor to the Hawks offensive attack.”northcyde .
There are games where Bibby is 2-9 from the field, with his usual bad defense, and he still plays 35 minutes. Is it too much to ask for games in which Bibby is struggling, to give Teague a chance?
Its like LD would rather stay with a Bibby who is sucking (in that particular game) rather than give Teague a chance.
I’m with Najeh. This offseason, Hawks and Rick need to address the backup PG situation, especially if they let Jamal walk.
Worldwide Clyde
January 22nd, 2011
10:44 pm
Northcyde If we drafted Dejuan Blair Woody would have buried him on the bench.
Woody threw Marvin out there in the starting lineup and he wasn’t ready. Hell he still ain’t ready and he’s a veteran.
northcyde
January 22nd, 2011
10:55 pm
Melvin . . I agree with you, and Najeh for that matter.
But the fact is that if Teague can’t handle the job, or if Drew has seen enough to not trust him, we have no choice but to go with Bibby . . who is NOT a bad option to go with, because he knows how to play the game.
JJ and Josh have been covering for PGs ever since the mid 2000s with Tyronn Lue. So it’s not like this is a new thing for them. That’s why the Hawks are able to function with Bibby in the lineup.
No one is going to trade us the type of PG we want/need, unless we give up something significant ( Jamal ) in return. And I don’t know if there is a free agent PG who is out of work, that is better than Bibby.
So what do people expect Drew to do? Just give Teague 15 minutes a game, let him make mistakes, and possibly lose games in the process?
Developing teams do that. Playoff caliber teams don’t do that.
Playing time alone isn’t going to help Teague. He has to WANT to lead. If he’s incapable of leading, then he won’t help us.
If Drew is coaching like Woody, he needs to keep on doing it. The Hawks have won 21 of their last 31 games.
northcyde
January 22nd, 2011
10:59 pm
BS Clyde
Woody played Solomon Jones ahead of Shelden Williams, when Shelden wasn’t getting it done. LOL . . Woody gave minutes to Royal Ivey and Mario West.
If Dejuan proved that he could be a monster on the boards, that dude would’ve played, seeing how Woody valued defense and rebounding.
You guys just want to believe that the coach is holding some of these players back, instead of the player holding themselves back.
Worldwide Clyde
January 23rd, 2011
12:28 am
Northcyde if Bibby and Jamal gets injured Teague would not be ready to play because of lack of playing time. As a coach you have to get your reserves ready just in case.
Worldwide Clyde
January 23rd, 2011
12:41 am
Northcyde Woody’s coaching style got us blown out of every game in the 2nd round because our starters were too worn out from playing too many minutes in the regular season.
no justice
January 23rd, 2011
9:15 am
Teague must be falling asleep in team meetings, or arriving late for practices. Something is going on! Maybe he is deaf and mute around the team. Maybe, his is slooow between the ears. Maybe his pulse rate is a notch above a dead man?’
maybe because he sucks and dont deserve more plaything.
rusty
January 23rd, 2011
10:23 am
Bench ld, he’s been in a slump all year