Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 104, Raptors 101
Raps couldn't stop Jamal. (AP Photo)
- If you are going to play no defense and get into an freewheeling shootout like the Hawks did in the first half, it’s good to have Jamal on your side. I thought he was going to provide the answer to Jason Walker’s poll at Peachtree Hoops after just one day.
- “I was a little concerned going into this game after what we’ve gone through in the last couple days in Atlanta with the snow and the ice of not being able to get the players on the floor and get some time in and get some shots up,” L.D. told reporters. “I was a little concerned that we would be a little rusty. Jamal, he came in that first half and really did a great job of getting us going and keeping us in it. Our defense I thought was really as low-energy as it’s been all year. But we were able to stay in it offensively because he made some shots.”
- If you need a big shot, Jamal and Bibby are good choices. If you need to get stops in a possession-by-possession game like this one became in the second half, neither guard is ideal. That’s why you saw L.D. make offense-defense substitutions with those two and Wilkins and Mo.
- Amir Johnson had gotten an and-1 on a pick-and-roll with Calderon vs. Bibby and Al for a 101-99 lead. But Johnson fouled things up when the Raps tried the same play again and he seemed less concerned with rolling to the basket and (for some reason) more worried about taking out Jamal.
- He inexplicably committed an obvious moving screen against Jamal (who sold it well to officials) with 10.5 seconds to go. That left the door open for the Hawks, and Bibby busted through it. He curled around a double screen from Al and Josh to make a 3. I think it was the same play the Hawks used for a key bucket late in their W at Orlando.
- Calderon thought he had a mismatch when Al switched off on him but really he would have been better off trying to swing the ball around and isolate one of Atlanta’s guards. Al played excellent D to get a piece of Calderon’s shot without fouling, then pulled back as the ball went off Calderon’s shoulder and out of bounds.
- Officials originally awarded the ball to the Hawks Raps but overturned it after looking at the replay. “I was not sure [of the call]; that’s why I called my guys in,” L.D. said. “My players were indicating the ball went off them. I was actually preparing myself to defend on that end because I didn’t see what happened.”
- After Joe made two free throws, the Hawks survived a pretty good 3-point look for Bargnani. The Hawks didn’t handle the Raps like the better teams have lately but they got out of Toronto with their fifth straight W and ninth in their last 11.
- They can thank Jamal for that. He was most of Atlanta’s offense in the first half. When he stopped scoring in the third, the Raps came back. In the fourth Jamal made a 30-foot 3-pointer, found Al for a key fastbreak layup and craftily drew a foul from DeRozan on a 3-point attempt and made all three free throws to give the Hawks a99-98 lead.
- Jamal had 36 points on 23 shots with no turnovers. “He’s every coach’s dream when you talk about a guy who can come off the bench and get you going,” L.D. said. “He knows what I expect from him. When the team is not going well and we need productivity off the bench, he comes in there and I run plays for him to get us going and tonight he kept us around that first half and then we found a way at the end.”
- About Jamal’s only real mishap late in the game was picking up a rare technical foul. He thought Barbosa hooked him on an and-1, and he had a point, but that’s a bad spot for a tech.
- J.J. (26 points on 20 shots) was nearly as efficient as Jamal. He had five turnovers and missed some spot-ups but he’s got his floater working and really is showing a knack for finding space in the offense. He also suckered DeRozan into fouling him on a 3.
- Josh was nonexistent offensively for much of the game while floating around the perimeter but then took Johnson to the post for a key basket in the fourth. He missed a 3-pointer with the Hawks down 93-91 but it was off good ball movement, in rhythm, he was open and he’s still the second-most accurate from there so hard to fault him too much.
- Bargnani did a good job of challenging Al’s face-ups. His defense (and the two-foul rule) took Al out of his game as he too often held the ball while trying to size Bargnani up. Al and Zaza struggled to stay with Bargnani on defense but both guys rebounded.
- Al and Smoove both tweaked their ankles but returned to the game.
- Mo lately is making more of his spot-up jumpers. He’ll get opportunities so if he keeps that up it adds yet another offensive threat for the Hawks.
- Wilkins has a knack for getting to the free-throw line, especially for a guy who isn’t much of a threat to score. He always goes hard to the basket.
- Teague got some early run and was minus-7 in seven minutes. Sometimes he beats the first line of defense and then backs it out instead of trying to get to the rim for his floater or setting up a drive-and-kick.
MC
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337 comments Add your comment
SteveW
January 13th, 2011
11:23 pm
Nuggets up after the 1st quarter over the Heat. But man, the Heat have a luxurious schedule coming up. Games the 15th, 18th, 22nd and 27th, that’s 4 games in 12 days. and the 18th and 22nd games are at home. Which means the Heat are in Miami for 11 straight days playing 2 games in that stretch. The NBA is sickening sometimes.
The Hawks play 6 games from the 15th – 26th, and are all over the map (at Charlotte, Milwaukee, Miami) during that period.
Ra'mon
January 13th, 2011
11:24 pm
KenS, I will disagree with you on one thing, and perhaps the most important thing. The best thing that Nash does that Harris doesn’t or hasn’t, is LEAD! Nash comes to the Hawks and instantly becomes the on court leader. Nash instantly becomes the leader in playoff basketball games played on the team. Do you realize Josh Smith, Joe, and Al have each played more playoff games than Harris has? Nash makes everyone game come easier. And due to injuries in the past, Nash may have more game left in his body than Harris does.
Melvin
January 13th, 2011
11:28 pm
Miami and Chicago play each other on Saturday, so there’s another opportunity to makeup a game in the standings on either team with a Hawks win over Houston.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 13th, 2011
11:43 pm
“one very important thing he Nash doesn’t do, which you refuse to even address, and that’s PLAY DEFENSE. ”
I did address this. Defensive ratings: Bibby 109, Harris 111, Nash 116. All three of them are bad at defense.
“Before the season began, I recall you making an issue of Teague’s turnover rate, compared to Bibby’s, as well as the importance of DEF. But now you’re willing to throw all of that out of the window for the sake of having a 37yr old SNash, whose TO rate is close to Bibby’s and Teague’s combined, and whose DEF is actually worse than Bibby’s.”
I don’t remember this exactly, but if anything, I probably pointed it out to indicate that Teague was improving and deserves more minutes. I have never disputed that Nash is bad defensively. My point is that Nash is so good offensively at the PG position that he would lift the Hawks from being a good offensive team to an elite offensive team, and his impact on the Hawks’ already poor perimeter defense wouldn’t be nearly bad enough to cancel out the advantage he provides offensively.
Comparing players solely based on stats without taking into account their team situation and role doesn’t make much sense.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 13th, 2011
11:44 pm
And I really doubt whether Devin Harris has much room for improvement. His stats have, if anything, gotten slightly worse over the last three years, and this can’t be explained by his team situation changing.
Ken Strickland
January 13th, 2011
11:46 pm
Guess who’s now 2nd in the Southeastern Division, and tied with the Bulls for 3nd in the Eastern Conference?
RA’MON-I’m looking more at the Hawks future, especially at PG, and SNash isn’t the answer. I’m also concerned about rectifying our poor perimeter DEF, and again, SNash isn’t the answer. SNash has definitely proven to be a leader, but he can’t lead anyone anywhere DEFENSIVELY.
SNash is certainly not a long term solution for the Hawks at PG, and it’s not a given he’d be a short team solution either. You can’t deny that overall, DHarris is producing as well as SNash. And it’s not inconceivable that he could improve his overall production if he was surrounded by the superior talent of the Hawks.
Why am I still the only one in this discussion about SNash vs DHarris who’s willing to acknowledge or address the issue of DEFENSE, or the lack thereof, when it comes to SNash? WE DON’T NEED ANYMORE DEF LIABILITIES AT PG.
Major de`Coverly
January 13th, 2011
11:53 pm
SteveW sir nash is from canada and mister unintended irony is goning to
make fun of you for saying workout regiment. And the hawks have the kind of team that can let josh smith and horford win for us in the tournament in the ind of the season when jamaal and joe are not good some nights. The man on the radio said mike bibby was a real nice man.
Ra'mon
January 13th, 2011
11:57 pm
KenS, I can’t say Harris is producing as well as Nash is. Nash is averaging 3 assists more a game than Harris. Nash is shooting .80 better from the field than Nash (there’s a huge difference between .436 and .510). Harris has attempted more field goals, yet Nash has made more. This season, the talent level of the Suns have not been drastically better than the talent level of the Nets. Lopez, and Humphries would both start if they were on the Suns.
I am a huge defensive guy. Yet, I realize the steals statistic is a very misleading statistic. For instance, Iverson was never a great defender, but was always in the top 3-5 of steal leaders in the league. Steals can be evidence of playing the passing lanes (not straight up one on one defense) or it could be just opportunistic turnovers by the opposition. Yet I do know, I’d take that extra 3 assists over that 1 steal any day of the week from the PG. Nash play making ability may be the best defensive option. The way he fines alleys for his passes will often times lead to Josh, Joe, and Al going to the free throw line, and having opposing team in foul trouble early. With Nash, I realistically see Josh, Joe, and Al each averaging 2-4 points more a game, just based off of having to do less with the ball when they receive the pass.
Ken Strickland
January 13th, 2011
11:58 pm
It looks like the elite Eastern teams are starting to come back to earth, and our Hawks are starting to take advantage of it.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 13th, 2011
11:59 pm
“Why am I still the only one in this discussion about SNash vs DHarris who’s willing to acknowledge or address the issue of DEFENSE, or the lack thereof, when it comes to SNash? WE DON’T NEED ANYMORE DEF LIABILITIES AT PG.”
Why are you ignoring the fact that Harris is also a poor perimeter defender?
This is from before the start of this season:
http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/08/10/can-he-bounce-back-devin-harris/#more-4576
Devin Harris has already been a poor defender since joining the Nets in New Jersey, but Nets’ fans and their coaching staff were willing to live with the inefficiency when he is being productive on the offensive end. However, when he struggles on offense (which is what happened this year), his defensive lapses become much more of a glaring problem. The strange thing about Devin’s defensive struggles is that he has all the skills to be a good defender. He’s quick, long, and has good foot speed, but he is just lazy in his technique. Instead of using his feet to beat offensive players, he reaches and goes in for steals way too much, this gets him caught flat-footed and is what gets him beat by slower points:
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
12:01 am
KenS, also, I don’t see Harris as being a PG of the future. It has been 4 seasons since the last time he played in over 70 games in the same season. Its hard to envision Harris having 4-5 seasons of playing at a high level left in him. If the choice is Harris or Bibby (or Teague), I’ll take Harris all day. But if the choice is Nash or Harris, I have to go with Nash. Nash is older, but healthier. If you want a PG of the future, you go after Johnny Flynn and take the growing pains that come. If you want a PG that will equal more wins in the next 2-3 seasons in the playoffs, you go with Nash.
Interesting fact, Nash’s career 3 point % is as high as Harris’ career field goal %.
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
12:03 am
**Nash is shooting .80 better from the field than Nash** I mean than Harris. Sorry
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
12:11 am
Do you guys realize the saddest part about being a Hawks fan, is Bibby is still the best PG the Hawks have had this millennium?
KenS, you do realize Bibby was only 1-2 years older than Harris is now when we acquired him as well.
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
12:13 am
You guys have to see this!!! Tweeted by Sekou:
http://dimemag.com/2011/01/dime-exclusive-josh-can%E2%80%99t-dunk/
Jamillion
January 14th, 2011
12:19 am
Ken how do yall even justify the second best pg ever for a one time allstar.That like would u rather hav duck or wiz mj 23 allday
Jamillion
January 14th, 2011
12:22 am
Then yall act like dude got rondo d. Get real
Jamillion
January 14th, 2011
12:23 am
Do the deal and become a contender
Rufus1
January 14th, 2011
12:26 am
Miami and Dallas….It is hard playing without your best player…Lol
Jamillion
January 14th, 2011
12:47 am
4 all yall whining hawks in 3rd barring injuries all year & acquiring nash a put us in first or second. Everest commercial do it now
Da Vinci Code
January 14th, 2011
12:58 am
To all these undercover Suns fans impersonating as Hawks Fans to sell the 37 year old Nash, I say keep trying but remember, we are on to you.
Da Vinci Code
January 14th, 2011
12:59 am
BTW, does Ra’mon = Ramon?
lewis
January 14th, 2011
1:07 am
we’re not getting nash
we need bibby to be our d fish
Jae Evolution
January 14th, 2011
1:23 am
Haha, lets McRoberts in the dunk content, I’d rather have him than B Jennings who has had 2 dunks the WHOLE season.
Come on now then I would REALLY have a dark horse to name in that Dunk Contest…LET HIM IN!
northcyde
January 14th, 2011
1:41 am
Ken . . . Devin Harris is at best a C+ defender. You talk him up like he’s 3rd team all-defense.
Acquiring Nash is a no-brainer, if we could get him.
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
1:44 am
DVC, yes..
Toronto Raptors Morning Coffee Jan 13 – Toronto Update
January 14th, 2011
3:00 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
darrell starks
January 14th, 2011
6:32 am
NASH = NO
DEVIN = YES
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
January 14th, 2011
6:34 am
MARVIN, TEAGE AND 1ST FOR DEVIN DO IT SUND.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
January 14th, 2011
8:08 am
From ajc.com;
“Josh Powell: Hasn’t provided hoped for post defense and rebounding.” MC .
Did LD really think Powell would provide post defense and rebounding?
What’s ironic to me is Powell left the Lakers to come here, because he wanted more PT. But he has fallen out of the Hawks rotation too.
More from MC;
Good teams that have engaged the Hawks in tightly-contested games usually beat them because Atlanta can’t make key defensive stops.
Often that’s because Atlanta’s guards get beat off the dribble. That leads to open jumpers, drive-and-dishes for easy shots or baskets on offensive rebounds because Atlanta’s big men are constantly helping.
Those breakdowns will make it difficult for the Hawks to win tight games in the postseason, when simply outscoring opponents is not a winning strategy.
Until they beat the best teams when they can’t play their style, the Hawks can’t be considered among the East’s elite..
Tell that to Rick Sund. And although Jamal and JJ are balling right now, it will be tough for them to keep it up in a 7 game series in the playoffs.
And in the playoffs, it is usually defense and rebounding that wins. 2 areas in which the Hawks tend to struggle, especially against good opponents.
Rev in Tampa
January 14th, 2011
8:41 am
I clicked on the link to the Toronto Raptors Morning Coffee, but it simply confirmed what we already know… That Canadians are whiners, eh
Mike is back
January 14th, 2011
8:42 am
Najeh, I think you, Ken Strickland , and Ra’mon have ALL made valid points to support you’re your statements…IT’S NICE FOR US TO DREAM AND GET EXCITED…however, we know it’s all for not…CUZ…all we going to hear from Sund…is the preverbal…WE LIKE OUR DANG CORE!!!
Ken, great stuff on the Hawks currently 2nd in the SE and tied for 3rd in the EC…THAT’S WHATZUP!!
Also, THE guy that wrote the article on Nash was right about one thing…The Hawks greatest need is a upgrade at the PG…the Hawk bring in a top flight PG…and they instantly move into the upper echelon of the EC.
Of course, that’s solely based on Sund not allowing someone to rob the farm…I don’t think Bibby can give us what Jamal does coming off the bench…so the Nash straight up trade for JC1 is not a slam dunk…we need to be more creative than that…Our first option should be…to look at scenarios where we keep Jamal.
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
9:43 am
Mike, I agree, the first option should be to keep Jamal (and attempt to move Marvin and pieces for Nash).
O'Brien
January 14th, 2011
9:50 am
Najeh,
With Dwight playing so many minutes, I think Orlando will make another move before the deadline to bring in a backup center. Plus with Dwight’s technicals on the rise, he might eventually have to miss a game.
Another day and no Carmelo trade. I wonder how Nuggets fans feel.
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
10:03 am
O’Brien, I wonder why the Magic haven’t seriously looked at a possible deal for someone like Camby. Could you imagine having Camby coming off the bench behind Bass and D12?
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
10:06 am
O’Brien, I imagine the Nuggets are feeling pretty good. They’re holding on to playoff status. And every game that NJN plays without Melo (and loses) is an even better draft position the draft picks will be for Denver. Denver has over 30 days to get the deal done. They have no reason to rush.
KevinM
January 14th, 2011
10:18 am
In looking at the PGs we think are available, I bring in Chauncey and his skillset because you know the rebuilding is going to happen in Denver with that mgmt group totally turned over this year, a la Phoenix.
Suns lose Amare, they have no shot at the Lakers.
Nuggest lose Carmelo, they have no shot at the Lakers.
Now anyone, tell me, what this fan base would do if we brought in Billups or Melo? This town would buy in big time….all games are a must see, the buzz would be here and put pressure on the Magic, Celtics and the Heatles to play their A game against us.
You get me either one of these guys, make them the floor leader, and the rest of the balanced scoring Hawk attack moves forward. And I dont’ care who you move to get them. My only exception at this point might be Al.
SteveW, good stuff on the scheduling…..and Ken, the Hawks should be up around 2nd or 3rd at this juncture. Their schedule has been so favorable. The 2nd half could bring some bumps but I expect guys to step up for each other going forward.
LD has done a favorable job with the core. I would just like the core to be extended a bit with a top flight floor leader, if there is such a player available at this juncture.
KevinM
January 14th, 2011
10:20 am
Ra’Mon, Camby to the Magic is very intriguing. They have the bench depth to do such a move too.
I can’t see Andre Miller being left out in Portland either, but he only fits for so many teams at this juncture.
Ken Strickland
January 14th, 2011
11:16 am
Let me close this enjoyable discussion, at least for me, over SNash vs DHarris by saying, I’D MUCH RATHER HAVE SNASH AS OUR STARTING PG THAN MBIBBY.
Did you see that beat down of Miami last night? Like us, they’re vulnerable to teams with quick, fast, athletic PG’s, except they are usually able to overcome it, most of the time, and we aren’t.
MC-When is Marvin coming back? We need him back(no pun intended)and productive for the difficult upcoming stetch run. With the team doing so well in his absence, I’m wondering if he won’t wait until after the All Star break to return. He’ll need time and practice to get his legs and timing back.
We can talk trade scenarios all we want, but with the team playing so well, I seriously doubt if the Hawks will make a trade, unless it’s a minor one involving MEvans, or maybe even JTeague. I think the contract issue between Jamal and the Hawks boil down to him wanting an extension before a CBA agreement is reached, and the Hawks not wanting to make a committment until after a CBA agreement is reached.
They both want to get it done, it’s just the timing of the matter that’s a problem.
Ra'mon
January 14th, 2011
11:58 am
KenS, I’d much rather have Harris than Bibby as our starting PG, lol
ant banks
January 14th, 2011
12:43 pm
some folks are concerned about nash’s age, 37, i would be too except for one fact. dude is an avid soccer player!! after the season is over, he goes back home and plays soccer. do you know what kinda shape you have to be in to play soccer? i would take a 37 year old pg, who is an avid soccer player over a 32 pg who doesn’t play pg.
ant banks
January 14th, 2011
12:56 pm
true, we are in 3rd seed in the conference, but i am lookin’ at the BIG PICTURE. does our current roster allow us to move deep into the playoffs? i see orlando is lookin’ for a center. are we goin’ to pull the trigga? or “stand pat” as sund always say?
ant banks
January 14th, 2011
12:57 pm
mc,
in your analysis of the players thru midseason, i see that horford’s numbers have increased since he has moved to the 4. it is funny that sund considers him and 5 and the coach and the player say that he is optimum at the 4.
MsDee
January 14th, 2011
12:57 pm
JJ needs to continue to try and convince Nash to join the Hawks..I believe he talks to Nash from time to time..hack, why wouldnt he? Joe KNOWS we could definitely use his services here and since Nash already wants out of Phoenix anyways..Joe come on and MAKE IT HAPPEN..SUND COMPLETE THE DEAL WITHOUT LOSING JAMAL IN THE PROCESS!! Give always any and all draft picks (since we dont know how to pick um anyways) with Marvin/Mo/Zaza/and Etan Thomas if u have to (not all at the same time for Nash, just choose between them)
MsDee
January 14th, 2011
12:59 pm
Oh and add Bibby to that list!! I would rather give up Bibby than Teague but IF they want Teague instead, Heck, MAKE IT HAPPEN THAN SUND!!
SteveW
January 14th, 2011
1:00 pm
Major – this is from ESPN under Steve Nash – “Birth Place Johannesburg, South Africa”
This is from Wikipedia – “Nash was born in Johannesburg, South Africa”
He may be a Canadian citizen, but he was born, and lived the 1st 18 months of his life in South Africa.
And why are people complaining that we traded two 1st picks for Joe Johnson 6+ years after the fact? Who would we have drafted with those 1st picks? Shelden Williams (5th), Josh Childress (6th), Acie Law IV (11th), Salim Stoudamire (31st)? Or maybe Marvin at #2, ahead of DeRon Williams and Chris Paul. We would have probably grabbed the fast rising Luke Jackson (#10, no longer in the League) or something stupid with the 1st picks.
I’d rather have JJ than the Hawks under Billy Knight drafting 1st picks.
Say what you want, but Penderraft rocks. Sund is terrible, see Seattle, but I like our last 2 draft picks, fast, athletic Guards with huge potential.
Houston Game Time Change - Please!
January 14th, 2011
1:01 pm
Any Chance we can move up the 7pm start to 4pm or earlier? We’ve got Falcons to watch too!
SteveW
January 14th, 2011
1:01 pm
“Penderraft” should be “Pendergraft” in the last post. When am I going to learn to read over my posts before hitting submit comment?
MsDee
January 14th, 2011
1:04 pm
Well, naw let me change my mind on Teague. I dont think its smart to give away Teague’s speed and aggression for a 37 yr old, non-playing DEF PG. We need Teague to stay and learn OFF from Nash. Bibby, Marvin, TPE and both draft picks for Nash..TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!!
SteveW
January 14th, 2011
1:09 pm
I don’t think we want another PG. Bibby plays the hybrid beer basketball position. Stand around, make the smart pass, and hit the 3 when your open. Happens all the time in adult basketball leagues. You have this rotund, aging guy, who doesn’t move much and is a def. liability, but can stroke the 3. That’s what we have. A PG averaging 4.0 assists per game in 30 mpg? Naaah, he’s a hybrid beer player, not a PG.
Our starting F averages 3.7 apg. Our starting C/PF 3.3 apg. Our backup SG averages 3.6 apg. Bibby is not a PG any longer in the NBA. But he does play a role, and if we don’t ask to much of him, he’s still effective in this offense.
Huh?
January 14th, 2011
1:44 pm
Some of Y’all need a crash course in D-Harris-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOsRE9Xewk4
He is a destructive offensive force that causes Bigs nightmares.