Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 107, Clippers 98

Ryan

January 2nd, 2011
9:12 pm

first?

Ryan

January 2nd, 2011
9:14 pm

Win. Anyway, I cant believe Teague doesnt get more playing time than he does. I just boggles my mind that you would rather go with spot up bibby when Teague gets to the rim, blocks shots, and is pretty good at staying with his guy. Also, I say Trade Josh for a center, move Al to the foward.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 2nd, 2011
9:16 pm

1st?

JeJe

January 2nd, 2011
9:18 pm

Nice write-up, MC.

Do you have any thoughts on Smoove’s in-game comments or body language? Seems like a lot of us are picking up on his immaturity – barking at teammates, getting flustered, etc

Do any of the experts here have suggestions on how to stop the P&R?

Boooo!

January 2nd, 2011
9:18 pm

Good game from Smoove. The strove looked confident in the second half. Boss on the other hand, got his lunch money stolen away from him this game. But he’s a beast so I know he will bounce back. Bibby shouldn’t have even played in this game smh. Teague should’ve taken all of his minutes. I live Twin in the starting lineup. Now if only LD will start Teague as well, this roster will balance out nicely.

Boooo!

January 2nd, 2011
9:20 pm

*Stroke

{MAC-Town Georgia 478}

January 2nd, 2011
9:22 pm

“It’s not a winning strategy in the big picture, or even in one-offs against teams better than the Clippers, but it worked today. Perhaps the Hawks can learn a lesson in victory.”

-The End

I know one thing….we better pile up some victiories while we can (6 out of the next 7 Vs. very beatable teams) because there is a stretch from Feb 14th – March 11th where we play teams that are either +.500 or teams below avg teams that happen to have some talent and give us trouble.

Pistons, Knicks, Suns, Warriors, Trailblazers, Nuggets, Bulls, Thunder, Knicks, Lakers, Bulls, Trailblazers, Nuggets, Heat, Piston, and Bulls.
First 7 on the road.

All these stretches we’ve had playing crap teams consecutively is about to end.

i_am_soulstar

January 2nd, 2011
9:22 pm

An 8 game win streak would be nice now.

Ryan

January 2nd, 2011
9:23 pm

Just imagine if we had 2 real post players in a center and Al. Teague, JJ, Marvin, Al, A real center.

O'Brien

January 2nd, 2011
9:24 pm

I’m glad we won, but I cant say it was a good win.

Teague gave them a much needed lift in the second quarter, because the deficit could have been a lot bigger at halftime. he needs to make shots more consistently for LD to give him PT.

Hawks give up 31 points in the first quarter. Where’s the defense?

And although Josh made 2 big 3’s, the issues with his shot selection still remain. On those 3’s, the ball was passed to him, and it was almost catch and shoot.

On some of his other shots though, his selection was bad. On his first shot, Bibby passed it to him, and Josh took the shot, without even looking to pass, probably 5 or 6 seconds into the shot clock.

On some of his other shots, he pump fakes (once or twice), and then decides to take the shot. That is not his game.

7 years into the league, and we are still talking about Josh and his shot selection.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 2nd, 2011
9:24 pm

I wonder if Smoove knows that the time zone excuse only works the other way around. It’s not a 12:30 game for East Coast teams traveling to the West Coast. That problem only affects West Coast teams traveling east and playing early games.

westurd

January 2nd, 2011
9:29 pm

Why is there no talk about Josh’s lack of explosiveness that we have come to expect out of him?

I hate how we settles for the jump shot instead of playing above the rim. Josh has great numbers, but as a Hawks fan I am beginning to think Josh will become a “what could’ve been if he only applied himself” type player.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 2nd, 2011
9:31 pm

Najeh!

Co-Sign That!

Sautee

January 2nd, 2011
9:35 pm

Road wins, even against poor teams, are like GOLD.

doc

January 2nd, 2011
9:48 pm

yeah najeh, my reaction to josh’s comment as well. the guy forgets to think before he speaks, kind of like his shot selection.

interesting take on teague’s day. hmmmm

maybe they need to start telling al h it is the second half at the start of games as he rarely picks up fouls in the second half only the first quarter.

Rev in Tampa

January 2nd, 2011
9:57 pm

Dang, Sautee. I was just about to point out that nobody had mentioned that this was a ROAD WIN.

Melvin

January 2nd, 2011
10:07 pm

Sautee,

Amen on your 9:35 post

SteveW

January 2nd, 2011
10:07 pm

Westurd – It is mentioned that Smoove has lost a little explosiveness, but his blind fans say: That it is just an illusion; that it is because he is playing more 3 etc.

And Josh taking 3’s at crunch time is a slap in the face to LD, after costing us a chance with the Thunder by bricking 2 jumpers late. LD mentioned, so what’s he do? He shoots 2 more and happens to make them. What a disrespect to the Coach!

jlewis

January 2nd, 2011
10:08 pm

I am curious to a couple of things, what is winning basketball? Also, I saw the ISO Joe line, when Jamal was going off in the third quarter, isn’t that ISO Jamal?

jlewis

January 2nd, 2011
10:10 pm

Forgot one thing, this is an ISO roster, until you get Utah Jazz type players in here, we can run that pretty Jazz offense that gets them eliminated in the first round also. MC, you do report the games as you see them, then interject your personal opinion, with that said, give us some solutions, as you see it.

Jamillion

January 2nd, 2011
10:35 pm

It marvels me how we critique a guy making two clutch shots to help who the game. Would u rather jj or jamal took those shots and missed?

Carlos

January 2nd, 2011
10:42 pm

Some of you guys are funny. Does a road win versus the Clippers display anything that shows that the Hawks are on their way to competing with the Elite in the East and get beyond the second round in playoffs?? If not it’s irrelevant. Let’s see some real progress that shows that this team can play with the big boys when it matters. This win doesnt mean squat.

Fundamentals

January 2nd, 2011
10:42 pm

Great job down low Joe. Good effort in the 2nd half. Excellent win.

Sleepy

January 2nd, 2011
10:46 pm

The way jamal was shooting Im not sure he wouldve missed .

I think peoples problem is that stuff like that will work against the bad teams but against the good teams thats what they want Josh to do and he falls right into the trap .

Jamillion

January 2nd, 2011
10:50 pm

It seems josh is just making his naysayers eat crow.The guy is making clutch shots and you still mad.

Jamillion

January 2nd, 2011
10:54 pm

It’s like dwight howard finally getting some good post moves and people wanting him to dunk more.Growth never hurts in life but being stagnant does,cause you are not evolving

Jamillion

January 2nd, 2011
10:56 pm

Lets get a real point and see where we can go. And throw away bibby mo and a pick

Carlos

January 2nd, 2011
10:59 pm

Hawks’ Fans claim to glory is applauding players for having good performances against shiddy teams, even if they choke most of the time against the elite teams. If you’re going to be a good team, you’re supposed to play good in games like this. You dont get back rubs, head pats and ice cream parties for beating the Clippers, unless you’re a lousy team just happy with any win. I guess that’s who the Hawks are now, or atleast the mentality of too many fans.

Jamillion

January 2nd, 2011
11:07 pm

Yes i am a hawks falcon braves fan. And i love my city and anything from atlanta from hip hop to the actors to the nightlife any problems?

SteveW

January 2nd, 2011
11:11 pm

Jamillion – You are maybe one of the blind Smoove supporters I spoke of?

And since Josh was 5-21 before today on 3’s in the last few games, and Jamal was 6 for 16 on 3’sin the last few, I would have preferred Jamal. but definitely not JJ!

And it goes back to shot selection. Smoove till the last 3weeks or so had been doing very well on 3’s, then Pow! Back to his old self. His highest 3 pt shooting percentage for a season in his career is 30.9%. He’s a career 28% 3 point shooter. We really need Josh in the low post. We now have ZaZa as our best low post scorer, with Josh and Al shooting the J’s, and having ZaZa as your best low post scorer is a scary thought, especially come playoff time.

Let’s see, an aging PG, no low post defender (except a big body in Collins, but no shot blocking) or scorer, hmmm, how will we do in the playoffs?

L-QUE

January 2nd, 2011
11:12 pm

Najeh it dont matter if you come or go the time is different ,it was a great come back win ,we need all we can get now and later, teams in the NBA are better than last year ,is it so bad to beat a team that beats what we precieve as a good team LAC have beaten the Lakers and others, to me no wins means no playoff regardless of what seeds, we have to play the hand we are dealt,give’em nell when they lose a game they should win, praise when they win regardless of who it is a W is a W. I say man dont take that shot but i feel better when it go in.It takes time for a high school player to mature to the NBA unless you are a shooter , but other parts of their game has to mature , see KD

SteveW

January 2nd, 2011
11:15 pm

Jamillion – And I’m an ATL fan of all sports, born and raised here, now mid 40’s. And I like Smoove, and want him to be a super star. But I still groan every time he get’s the ball with 16 seconds on the shot clock from 20 feet and hoists up a J!

SteveW

January 2nd, 2011
11:19 pm

And we do know we may be abused by the Kings with Evans and Udrih at the PG position? Then comes DeRon. And Bibby is tired now, wait until back to backs with 6-6 220lb Tyreke and 6-3 205 Udrih, then DeRon the next night in Utah. Can you say uh-oh?

Play Teague.

And some say JJ will play Tyreke. Well then who does Bibby defend, the air? 6-7 SG Garcia?

SteveW

January 2nd, 2011
11:24 pm

It’s beginning to look like a 4 or 5 seed for the Hawks. The Knicks are fading like I thought they would. I keep thinking the Bulls may fade, but no signs yet. And maybe the Magic don’t jell, or they make a stupid move with somebody. We’ll see. That’s why they play the games.

SteveW

January 2nd, 2011
11:33 pm

Wow! The Griz are crushing the Lakers by 17 going into the 4th quarter. Didn’t they beat the Lakers at Staples a few weeks ago also?

Clyde

January 2nd, 2011
11:42 pm

Fire Sund

keno

January 2nd, 2011
11:45 pm

Joe Johnson with 17 free throw attempts? And still got off 20 shots? What kind of motion offense was that?

Melvin

January 2nd, 2011
11:50 pm

Some are complaining about about a come from behind win on the road against a bottom feeder team but the Lakers are down by 20pts (and about to lose) at home to Memphis a team that the Hawks beat fairly easy… You take a win anyway you can in this league especially on the road….

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
12:19 am

I get this feeling that Smoove and Horford have a workplace relationship, but that Horford cannot stand Smoove at all. There’s been way too many occasions where Horford has just looked amazed at how immature Smoove is.

Smoove, grow up

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
12:21 am

Nice write-up, MC.

Do you have any thoughts on Smoove’s in-game comments or body language? Seems like a lot of us are picking up on his immaturity – barking at teammates, getting flustered, etc

Do any of the experts here have suggestions on how to stop the P&R?.

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
12:22 am

Nice to see Joe get all those FTs but he was iso’ing too much in the 4th. If he is iso’ing, it has to be closer to the post – not 20 feet out. It’s almost like he thought “ok, forget this team !@#$. It’s my time”

slimjr

January 3rd, 2011
12:27 am

Josh hoisting up three’s in crunch time will most certainly contribute in a large way to the Hawks 1st round elimination by Chicago..And it will not take Chicago six games to dispatch the Hawks either.

Sund, start packing now dude. Bet you don’t last 4 years in this Job at the rate your not getting it done..2 have past already…
Sund=Billy Knight, enough said…

Najeh Davenpoop

January 3rd, 2011
2:56 am

“It is mentioned that Smoove has lost a little explosiveness, but his blind fans say: That it is just an illusion; that it is because he is playing more 3 etc.”

Was he lacking explosiveness against the Thunder, when he threw down at least 3 powerful dunks?

It has everything to do with him playing away from the basket more. It also has something to do with him handling the ball too much on the break, since that usually means he’s not going to finish at the rim.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 3rd, 2011
3:00 am

“I think peoples problem is that stuff like that will work against the bad teams but against the good teams thats what they want Josh to do and he falls right into the trap .”

I’d rather not see Smoove taking jumpers, but if the guards are going to pass the ball to him on the perimeter and he’s taking the shot in rhythm, it’s fine with me. You can say what you want, but the bottom line is that he has put in the work and his jump shot has improved, to the point where if he is taking a rhythm jump shot it’s not a bad play for the Hawks’ offense. The problem arises when he takes them out of rhythm, off the dribble, or too early in the shot clock. Of course he still does that too often, but that doesn’t mean he should stop shooting altogether. Give credit where credit is due. Unlike a lot of Hawks, the man has put in the work and improved his game.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 3rd, 2011
3:02 am

“It’s beginning to look like a 4 or 5 seed for the Hawks. ”

4 seed can’t happen unless they finish ahead of Orlando or Miami in the division. I wouldn’t bet on that happening.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
3:07 am

Poetry in Motion!

“Joe Johnson with 17 free throw attempts? And still got off 20 shots? What kind of motion offense was that?”

Apparently, with 17 FT’s? That was 8 motions to the basket and subsequent fouls. The odd FT attempt was apparently a made technical foul.
Looks like Joe played effectively inside to me.

rusty

January 3rd, 2011
4:37 am

That was the worst high scoring performance I ever seen from anyone that jj accomplished.he really played a lousy game of holding on to the ball, he was very lucky.I couldn’t believe how he used his hands pushing defenders away & getting away with it.this type of performance from his will not get us many wins.

Ben G.

January 3rd, 2011
4:51 am

“I get this feeling that Smoove and Horford have a workplace relationship, but that Horford cannot stand Smoove at all. There’s been way too many occasions where Horford has just looked amazed at how immature Smoove is.”

That is a great point. I’ve been thinking the exact same thing. While watching the games, I’ve noticed so many times Al looking at Smoove like “wtf are you doing?” after a bonehead play. Also, so many times I noticed Al wide open for a shot or deep in the post calling for the ball while Josh has it, and Josh seems to just ignore him, entirely. I can’t imagine Al really likes this guy. I know that if I was in Al’s position, I wouldn’t be very fond of Smoove. But, Al is a professional, so I wouldn’t expect him to say anything to the media about that sort of thing. He’s not the type of person who is going to call someone out like that.

Jamillion

January 3rd, 2011
7:39 am

Steve w it isn’t about being a smoove supporter i just like guys who can ball. Like u said our bigs r shooting js. So y don’t nobody get on al for his disappearing acts? N no scoring?

dap01

January 3rd, 2011
7:59 am

Bibby is playing defense. That is the reason for the Hawks always getting beat off the dribble. Teague plays more defense in 9 minutes that Bibby in 30.

Larry Drew says one thing but coaches another way.

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
8:38 am

I’m with Najeh. I am ok with Josh taking jumpers if he is open and in rhythym when they pass it to him.

But when he pump fakes twice, and then shoots, or takes a jumper with 15 seconds left on the shot clock, those are the bad shots.

I do wish he wouldnt throw his hands up at his teamates like that when they mess up though. He had 7 turnovers against OKC. Imagine if his teamates did the same thing to him?

I’m happy for the road win, but 36 games into the season, this Hawks team is still up and down…

ILL-Logical

January 3rd, 2011
8:39 am

Congratulations to the Falcons for winning the NFC South! The hard work that the entire organization from the owners,stasff and players has yielded a result that the entire city of Atlanta can be proud of. Let’s all salute them for that effort and wish them even greater success in the Playoffs.

And here’s hoping that the Falcon’s success is contagious.

i_am_soulstar

January 3rd, 2011
8:46 am

Joe’s game was actually pretty efficent. You can’t just look at his 7-20 FGs when a guy has that many free throws. Outside of the technical free throw, you have 8 more attempts where the guy got to the line for 16 free point opportunities and made 13 of them. The guy had a +/- of +18.

sam'l

January 3rd, 2011
8:56 am

Like it or not, this is so much better to win than to lose. I sense a change in the air. Maybe the Hawks will fall into a rhythm now which will make all the little problems go away.

Bibby should be used in isolated offensive situations, like out of bounds 1 point down with 10 seconds to play……and then he better make that 3 when it comes to him. Unfortunately, all the players need to play defense. Perhaps Bibby (and Pachulia) could both give an energet 7 minutes a game, , make a few things happen and sit down…….

Only raw desire to win will smooth out the distracting egotistical errors.

sam'l

January 3rd, 2011
8:57 am

typo…energetic

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
9:04 am

“Baron Davis got past Teague a couple times. Eric Gordon also got around him to feed Blake Griffin for a layup. Teague tends to give too much ground even as he stays in front of his man, but he gives the Hawks a fighting chance since they don’t have to scramble to help him on every possession.”

This is an interesting quote. Off and on, since the beginning of the season, I, along with a few other bloggers, have been claiming that Teague’s defense is in fact not much (any?) better than Bibby’s.

Bibby gets beat off the dribble because he is a step too slow. Teague get beat off the dribble because he lacks the fundamentals. [But keep in mind: It's much easier to learn fundamentals then it is to learn how to get a step back. And, as Teague has a lot of the necessary "tools" to be a good defender I look for him to continue to improve.]

However, even when people are willing to admit that Teague’s defense isn’t quite there yet (i.e., by simply being willing to recognize that he often gets beat off the dribble), somehow his getting beat off the dribble gives the Hawks more of a fighting chance. Getting beat off the dribble [Bibby] ≈ getting beat off the dribble [Teague]. So, Teague has a better chance to recover than Bibby; however, often enough when Teague gets beat off the dribble, he is too far out of position to recover. Furthermore, the opposing player still gets in the lane, often causing the help defense to have to rotate, which in turn leads to open men, higher percentage shots, fouls, missed rebound opportunities, etc.

If Teague wants more playing time, he has to learn to defend with consistency! [Becoming a little more consistent on the offensive end would be nice, too.]

Clyde

January 3rd, 2011
9:36 am

This is the NBA. Everyone gets beat off the dribble sometime.

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
9:44 am

Yes, Clyde, that is _very_ true.

However, one of the main complaints about Bibby is that he gets beat off the dribble way too often. My point is that Teague hasn’t proved that he in fact fares better than Bibby in this regard.

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
9:47 am

If Caron stays down, any chance we could trade Marvin for Haywood? We could then see if ZaZa+Mo could get us a serviceable SF

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
9:48 am

Damien needs to get more minutes. If he looked so good in those 4 minutes, then why did Mo get way more minutes? I’d like to see Mo traded so we can see Damien get regular rotational minutes.

If Marvin has dirt on ASG, then Mo has dirt on LD. That’s the only reason he can possibly be infatuated with playing this guy so much

Jamillion

January 3rd, 2011
9:50 am

Good post about that cushion. The hawks should give no cushion like wilkins does on defense

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
10:02 am

It’s ready to be consistent and for us to go on a winning streak. If we can get past @Utah, we can easily win the next 7 games. Jan 18-29 looks brutal though

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
10:03 am

People talk about Bibby scoring more than he gives up. Does Damien not give up less than he scores? No one gets points off him

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
10:14 am

This is just an unsubstantiated conjecture, but perhaps with Damien on the floor, the Hawks are not able to achieve good enough spacing, especially if he is playing with other backups. Mo, on the other hand, can hit the open corner 3 [at least better than Damien can]. So, either the other team guards Mo, spreading the other team’s defense, or Mo is wide open for a spot up 3. So, it’s not always about an individuals production, but how well the team produces while that individual is on the floor.

Over the next few games I’ll try to keep an eye on the spacing on the offensive end when Mo is in the game versus when Damien is in the game. [If it is not spacing issues, I am not sure why Mo is getting significantly more time than Damien.]

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
10:43 am

J from the A,

I agree that Teague needs to play better, and he does get beat. But with experience, he will improve. Bibby will continue to wear down and will only get worse defensively as the season progresses.

And in the playoffs, look for teams to pick and roll us constantly.

Can you imagine Bibby matched up against Jameer? Or Bibby matched up against D. Rose? Or Bibby matched up against Felton and the Knicks? Then what? We play Jamal at PG?

I know it’s a fine line between letting Teague take his lumps and not sacrificing games. But I dont think LD is doing a good job of walking the fine line.

steve brown

January 3rd, 2011
10:48 am

I get the distinct feeling this is a much weaker team without Jamal Crawford. If I am wrong Sund needs to trade him if I am right he needs to be signed now. Mo Evans must have something on the coach, I just don’t get his game at all. Josh Smith went to Atlanta Public Schools, need we say more.

bigdave

January 3rd, 2011
11:00 am

wrong.

Cobb County school system. cracks on APS but doesnt have his facts straight.

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
11:01 am

MC, Good Stuff…I like the fact that these guys didn’t wilt under pressure…and came back and secured a victory on the road.

JC1, was the difference in the game…Dude carried these guys until they were ready to play.

Jamillion, I agree with your earlier comment about Josh…because dude is a lightning rod…people tend to single him out…and while he does not make the most astute post game comments…he has made major strides this season.

I’m just glad the Hawks kept fighting and didn’t give up…I thought we was for sure looking at an 0-4 road trip if we lost that game…despite the fact it was the Clips…this win could be a confidence builder for the rest of the trip…A WIN IS A WIN…IS A WIN…especially if you are the Hawks.

Considering all that this team has ENDURED this season…we should cherish THESE wins…IF we go back and look at the blog prior to the start of the season…I WOULD SAY…LD has this team about where everyone thought or a little better…UNTIL LD GETS COMPLETE BUY-IN ON DEFENSE…these guys are going to look the same.

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
11:01 am

MC, Good Stuff…I like the fact that these guys didn’t wilt under pressure…and came back and secured a victory on the road.

JC1, was the difference in the game…Dude carried these guys until they were ready to play.

Jamillion, I agree with your earlier comment about Josh…because dude is a lightning rod…people tend to single him out…and while he does not make the most astute post game comments…he has made major strides this season.

I’m just glad the Hawks kept fighting and didn’t give up…I thought we was for sure looking at an 0-4 road trip if we lost that game…despite the fact it was the Clips…this win could be a confidence builder for the rest of the trip…A WIN IS A WIN…IS A WIN…especially if you are the Hawks.

Considering all that this team has ENDURED this season…we should cherish THESE wins…IF we go back and look at the blog prior to the start of the season…I WOULD SAY…LD has this team about where everyone thought or a little better…UNTIL LD GETS COMPLETE BUY-IN ON DEFENSE…these guys are going to look the same.

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
11:08 am

my bad on the double post…all I did was refresh the page.

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
11:08 am

@O’Brien (10:43am): I (almost) completely agree. I think Teague has the tools, and that he has a chance to evolve into a good point guard in this league. I am even hopeful that he will be more or less ready for decent playing time by the end of the season. (I am optimistically hopeful that he will especially be ready for quality playing time come the playoffs for the reasons that you point out.)

I, too, wish Teague got at least a little more playing time, but I am not ready to fault LD for this. After all, LD (and the rest of the coaching staff) sees a lot more of Teague than we do (e.g., practice, etc.). They are in a much better position than we are to gauge how to appropriately walk that fine line. [This isn't meant to say that I think LD is doing it right. This is meant to say that I am a bit skeptical that we truly know better than LD.]

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
11:12 am

Hawks, let’s see an 8 game winning streak! With a win against the Jazz, an 8 game winning streak is achievable. And given the strength of the Hawks’ schedule after this 8 game stretch, the Hawks will need to get the wins while they can.

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
11:28 am

To all of you Jamal Crawford haters, the only way we should trade Jamal is if we get a proven scorer back. Without Jamal, the Hawks will struggle to score in the playoffs. Jamal is our only true scorer. Joe can score, but he has to work to hard to get his shot. Jamal is the only guy who can take people off the dribble on this team and score consistently. When you complain about how much he shoots, and his percentages, sometimes I wonder if you realize that he is just doing his job. His job is to come in off the bench and score period. His defense is not great, but the effort is always there. This has truly been the only great move that Sund has made in his time in Atlanta. All these trade proposals involving Jamal, that would net us a defensive center would be terrible. First, LD is not a defensive coach, second we would not be able to get out of the 70’s in the playoffs without Jamal’s scoring. If you trade him, it better be for a wing scorer to replace Marvin, or a scoring center (like Kaman). Other than that, you need to keep him.

slimjr

January 3rd, 2011
11:30 am

‘the Clippers bigs made the Hawks bigs look slow and unathletic’. MC

Sund did you read that?? Your team’s front line was out rebounded big time by the Clippers plus they had 11 offensive boards.. Prediction, Chicago Bulls in 5 against the Hawks first round match up.The beat down is comin…. Keep hoisting those 3’s in the 4th quarter Josh!! You will guarantee an early exit in playoff’s…
Josh for Rudy Gay yesterday…Jettison the core Scottie.Make it so!
Sund=Billy Knight

doc

January 3rd, 2011
11:42 am

mike, got to agree with the lightening rod as i have used it more than once about his relationship to blogger fans. man they dog him mercilessly. yes he does say some of the stupidest things and acts petulant at times but there have been revered players doing the same. cant say he is doing it right but isnt a vocal leader one of the things we have said is missing and have asked that of jj? when josh exerts some of this it is josh being josh.

yeah, you are right about the comeback which is what the better teams do, exert their will. it would have been a huge hole to not have won that game with two more to play on this trip one winnable another probably not.

j from a, yes we need a winning streak to keep from falling further behind as the guys ahead of us a very capable of continuing their runs.

man lakers are struggling. one of the surprises of the young season moving to the halfway point.

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
11:43 am

OB, I agree on your 10:43am post…LD’s dilemma is…he wants to shore up his perimeter defense…but he needs Bibby to run his offense…at some point…we are going to have make a trade or develop the personnel we have for that position…those are the only options available…we might as well go through the growing pains and get Teague ready go…He don’t have to start…just make sure he is getting enough PT to continue to develop…give him THE GREEN LIGHT AND TELL HIM…GO GET IT…GO GET IT!!

slimjr

January 3rd, 2011
11:53 am

Teague has no jumpshot at the 1! We have weak scoring at the critical 3 to help out Allstar Joe..That’s why Bibby has to play more minutes at least he can shoot the rock..
Sund believes his team has improved if you believe that bull…The next 8 weeks will prove him wrong..Sund has been a GM for a long time but unfortunately for the Hawks hes never won a championship in 31 years.. So we should not expect him to make it happen here…Hawks are a write off..
Sund= same ole bull

S

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
12:01 pm

Doc, I agree…I think we look at the BIRDS and want to see the same gritty determination in the Hawks…however there is a big gap in talent and philosophy between the two teams…I will give LD credit for getting more out of his personnel than his predecessor…however, I still thinking he is struggling coming with the right rotations…but that is to be expected from a first year coach…ALL AND ALL DUDE IS HOLDING IT DOWN AT THE HC POSITION.

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
12:38 pm

@ slimjr,

Prior to his back injury, Marvin was averaging 15 pts and 6 rebounds the previous 5 games, so he was showing signs of providing scoring from the 3 position.

Mike, J from the A,

Rick and LD need to make a decision. If they think Teague is good enough to be our backup PG, then they need to give him more PT and deal with the lumps.

If they don’t think Teague is good enough to provide consistent minutes as a backup PG, then they need to bring in somebody who can. Sign a PG from the D-League to a 10 day contract (when possible), trade Mo Evans and his expiring contract for a PG, but either way, we will need better PG play to advance in the playoffs.

KevinM

January 3rd, 2011
12:40 pm

Bibby plays more for one simple fact: he hits the jumper more often than Teague. Teague has to get his confidence on his jumper.

The Hawks will not be a 4 seed; I see them going up against Chicago or New York to get to Round 2.

And who thinks Jamal is more valuable to us than Joe? I for one do, as we need a bench scorer…aside from a couple of baskets from Zaza and Powell, we have no bench scoring….Marvin is a good fit there, but its not about team obviously with Marvin.

I just like Jamal and the way he gets his points. No knock against Joe re: getting points, but we are better with them than without them. Sund has to find a way to keep Crawford. I felt the same way about Flip Murray who would come in and provide a boost. Crawford trumps Flip as we all see now, but I was really concerned we couldn’t get anyone to take on that role.

But this is a team that is a bad jump shot night away from being sent home in the playoffs. If we don’t hit our jumpers, we don’t have another option. This team works outside in, not inside out.

oldtimer

January 3rd, 2011
12:43 pm

Jamal is a valued member of Hawks. But he is redundant. Hawks need PG help, and a big to help much more desperately than another scorer in SG position.

Yes we give up scoring with trade of Jamal, but have to give up something of value to get something of value. Otherwise no team trades for Zaza and Mo

Sleepy

January 3rd, 2011
12:58 pm

yeah oldtimer trade jamal away and we will see just how redundant he is ? lol

This team doesnt need a pg with this person ell does anyone think that Joe or josh will ever let another player control the ball that much ? Do you watch any of the games ?

Unless you are trading Josh or Joe a pg is unnecessary a true size defensive center is more needed and a backup pg with defense .

As for Teague Jamal and Bibby are not the ones keeping Teague on the bench its the play of the 4 other starters that is keeping Teague on the bench .

Josh,Al,Marvin,Joe either dont show up ,dont run the offense or have various drastic swings in there play that you simply cant insert a young player into that lineup and hope for them to do anything.

The reason is our “core” simply is not consistent enough that they can help develop a young player …heck they are still using the young player excuse themselves so you have to go with Bibby and Crawford because there games have already developed and they dont need to lean on the other 4

Ken Strickland

January 3rd, 2011
1:06 pm

MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM-that was an excellent writeup, except for one aspect, and it’s an issue we saw with Woodson, as well as some of our fans, and now you. You went into detail explaining the DEF issues JTeague had during his 9min stint, which is just fine. But, in your excellent critique of the hawks defensive woes, can you guess what you omitted?

You said, “I’M TRYING TO REMEMBER A TIME WHEN THE HAWKS WEREN’T HURT BY THEIR PICK AND ROLL COVERAGES, AND EXACTLY WHAT ADJUSTMENTS CAN BE MADE GIVEN THEIR PERSONNEL. IT’S NOT SOMETHING THAT FIGURES TO GET MUCH BETTER, ESPECIALLY AGAINST FASTER TEAMS LIKE THE CLIPPERS.”

You also said, “IT’S REPETITIVE TO WATCH THE HAWKS GET BEAT OFF THE DRIBBLE, LEADING TO OPEN JUMPERS, DRIVE-AND-DISHES, FOR HIGH-PERCENTAGE SHOTS, OR PUT BACKS BECAUSE ATLANTA’S BIGS ARE CONSTANTLY HELPING. THERE’S JUST NO WAY FOR THE HAWKS TO CONSISTENTLY STOP GOOD TEAMS THAT WAY IN THE KIND OF POSSESSION BY POSSESSION GAMES THAT COME IN THE PLAYOFFS.”

Now, here’s what you didn’t say, which is strange, since you detailed JTeagues’ contribution to the problem. You conveniently omitting any mention of MBibby, or his involvement in our problems. MBibby is our biggest DEF liability, averages almost 30MPG, yet you saw fit to make an issue of JTeague’s defensive laps during his 9min stint.

While you mentioned the effect our weak perimeter DEF has on our Bigs, you failed to mention the effect it has on anyone playing next to Bibby. His extremely poor DEF forces his teammates to focus on compensating and/or covering for Bibby, while trying to maintain focus on their assignment.

As long as Bibby is our starting PG, and continues to get major mins, the Hawks, and every player on the court with him, will continue to have the same DEF problems we’ve had since his arrival. And teams will continue to successfully take full advantage of him, and the Hawks.

MC, please give us an account of what you saw Bibby do defensively in last nights gm. While Jamal is also a DEF liability, he more than makes up for it with his one on one skills, ability to penetrate and attack the basket, and high scoring ability. LDrew has to find another roll that will allow Bibby to be effective, while reducing the negative impact of his diminished offensive skills, and extremely limited defensive ability.

And, we need to stop focusing exclusively what Bibby does well, while ignoring the numerous things he does badly, and the overall effects it has on the team and his teammates. We also need to stop focusing exclusively on what we perceive JTeague can’t do well, while ignoring what he does do well.

If you’re baking something, and it isn’t done within the expected amount of time, do you:
A-throw it out and start over, or
B-put it back in the oven until it’s done?

It’s stupid to deliberately limit the talent and potential of a player like JTeague, because someone ASSUMES he’s not ready. It’s just as stupid to think we can improve by relying heavily on Bibby, who’s limitations and rapid decline puts a tremendous burden on his team and teammates on both ends of the court. BURYING OUR COLLECTIVE HEADS IN THE SAND ON THIS MATTER WON’T DO ANYTHING TO HELP BIBBY, TEAGUE, OR THE HAWKS, GET ANY BETTER.

slimjr

January 3rd, 2011
1:10 pm

Jamal plays even less “D” than Bibby, that’s why he will be traded for who? That’s for Sund to try and figure out if he has the capacity??

Marvin has not been consistent enough at the 3 . 5 decent games does not make a winner especially after 6 non descriptive seasons..Marvin is too soft and will get slap around and crawl into his crib in the playoffs. He does not have it. He came off the bench in college for a reason. Sorry to bust your bubble but he is a pretender not a contender..The Hawks will be dismantled for the 3rd straight playoff run……

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
1:11 pm

O’Brien,

“Prior to his back injury, Marvin was averaging 15 pts and 6 rebounds the previous 5 games, so he was showing signs of providing scoring from the 3 position.”

Wow!!! A five game average. Come on O’Brien, I would expect better from you. How about 11pts and 5 rebounds for the year, as opposed to 10ppg and 5 rebounds per game last year. Dramatic increase huh. LOL

Sherewshevsky

January 3rd, 2011
1:18 pm

Most astute comment yet by Cunningham: Smoove began the game with an extra headband to hold in place a bandage for the cut he suffered Friday at Oklahoma City. He shed the second headband after halftime because it put too much pressure on his head.

Ken Strickland

January 3rd, 2011
1:43 pm

Smoove stated during the off season he was working on his midrange jumpshot, and he obviously worked very hard on it. Unless a player works equally as hard on his confidence in that jumpshot, he wasted his time. When you consider the DEF, shot blocking, rebounding, assists and energy Josh consistently gives this team, especially on DEF, he’s certainly earned the right to shoot jumpers as anyone else.

And whether anyone is willing to admit it or not, he’s doing a pretty good job of hitting them, especially in the clutch. Here we are complaining about our energetic, rebounding, shot blocking, high assists PF shooting jumpshots, when we should be complaining that our slow, DEF liability of a PG seldom does anything but launch jumpshots.

We got rid of Woodson and MOST of his issues. Now we have to start depending less on one of the biggest reasons he was replaced, and that was his over reliance on Bibby as a starter, and an unwillingness to deal with the negative impact his limitations are having on the team and his teammates.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
1:56 pm

I was a jumpshooter in high school. Josh is not catching a shooting in rhythm if he’s falling backwards when he shoots which he says that’s what he’s doing according to the above article.

LD says Josh needs to be careful hoisting up jumpers and shot selection.

MC a vet BB writer sees it.

Phillips Arena sees it when they groan collectively when he hoists up an ill timed jumper.

He cost us a shot in OKC by doing it.
Just blind loyalty to a very good, whiny, immature player, who i like very much. It’s ok to have blind loyalty, just admit it.

And Teague has a very good jumper. Did you see him play in college?

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
1:59 pm

Between The Lines!

The Game is won, between the lines: if the line stats says:
7-20 with 18 FT’s and 13 made? Doesn’t that equate to: 15-20 (8+1 F’s)?

If you are fouled 8 times and it’s not an “And-1″? Doesn’t that tell you the man was fouled? Where is the Logic for ignoring the facts?

LeBron and Durant goto the lines 10 times per/game and because of that they average 27-30 pts per game, some teams will not allow lay-ups and implement the “Hack-Rule”! The Joe Haters have been complaining that Joe never gets to the FT Line, but this year Joe is doing that at an alarming rate and, Now they complain he shot 7-20 with 17 FT’s attempted and 29 pts? That’s not even adding the assists and rebounds and lock-down perimeter defense!
—————————————

Go Figure That?
________________

“I’m happy for the road win, but 36 games into the season, this Hawks team is still up and down…..”

Do we even consider 55 games missed by starters due to injuries and last season The Hawks missed 50 Games total by starters. I have not even added the 2 Games Marvin has missed and counting … Could that simple fact explain the up and down along with all the New Offense and Defense and New Players gelling allowances that every other team subscribes to?

I’m just wondering? Where is the Logic?

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:01 pm

And i still say start ZaZa and Teague for 3 games and see what happens. You may like the results.

We have Bibby facing off with Tyreke, Udrih, and DeRon the next 2 games. I say start Teague. If he fails, you can still bring Bibby off the bench 5 minutes into the game. Teague is part of the future of this franchise. Start him.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:07 pm

DrmaryB – Co-sign and we have a new coach and offensive system. And the East is improved. I agree.

I thought we would start slow learning the new system, not factoring in the injuries.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
2:14 pm

Developmental League!

“If they don’t think Teague is good enough to provide consistent minutes as a backup PG, then they need to bring in somebody who can.”
_________________________

In all fairness to Coach Drew:
Can he really experiment and develop below NBA talent, while nursing what is now 57 Games not played by starters due to injury to date, while implementing a new overall system and new players, who are proven NBA talents like:

Maurice and ZaZa? I mean, IMHO we haven’t seen all the starters play together without ANY injuries. Jamal and Maurice started the season inactive due to injury and the developmental players are NOT trustworthy!

What would you do to win a game?

northcyde

January 3rd, 2011
2:16 pm

LOL @ “we got rid of Woodson and most of his issues. What issues do we not have this year, that we didn’t have last year?

- perimeter defense is worse
- rebounding is still bad
- bench is still highly inconsistent
- we still have 4th quarter droughts ( with last night being an exception )
- rotations are still highly suspect

Seriously . . . what are we doing better this season, that is helping us win games, other than taking full advantage of the weak schedule we’ve played so far?

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:20 pm

The Hawks aren’t doing that badly. Consider:

Last year we played our 36th game on Jan.9th, losing at Orlando by 32.

This year we played our 36th game on Jan. 2nd, which means we’ve been playing our schedule this year on much less rest.

Last year our record after 36 games was 23-13.

This year it’s 22-14, 1 game back of last year.

So with less rest, more injuries, including JJ and Jamal, and a new coach and totally new offensive syste, we’re 1 game behind last year. Not bad.

Ken Strickland

January 3rd, 2011
2:23 pm

DOC-Just like opponents have discovered and successfully exploited our biggest weakness over the past 2+ seasons, it seems opponents have discovered some exploitable weaknesses with the Lakers. Their problem just isn’t about the losses, but the fact they’re getting blown out in many of those losses.

When you consider they’re losing, and losing big, with their roster in tact, it makes you wonder if they’ll bea able to turn it around by playoff time.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:25 pm

Northcyde – The only thing I can think of is LD’s playing big when the opposing teams lineup calls for it. I think that has won us 3-4 games. But on everything else, you are right. Still have the same issues, maybe worse.

Bibby’s a year older

Josh is now shooting long J’s at will

We have less post presence on O and D except for Collins ability to body up.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:30 pm

According to Hollinger (who I distrust) we have played the 28th (out of 30) weakest schedule in the NBA. The Bucks have played the toughest according to him.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:35 pm

The biggest party team in the NBA? Evidently the Hawks who won their 1st game in the New Year for the first time in 9 years.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
2:37 pm

High School Drop-Outs!

NorthCyde

I swear, the ignorant blogging whiners on this blog?
They ALL failed math and reading comprehension in High School!
Their “nimbers” are NOT adding up, yet, they blog day and night and type because they have a keyboard with a spell checks tool in the navigator bar.

There is rarely an intellectual comment these days, just a lot of “emotionally disturbed” bloggers throwing out unbelievable trades and rhetoric posed as comments. Hell, one blogger has 17 people running around in his head and is:

Un-con-TROLL-able at best, sad thing is: all 17 personalities have 17 different user ID’s and multiple IP Addresses from local libraries to out-smart The AJC!

For that reason, I will be blogging less and less, because I have better things to do now! The Hawks are the same Hawks we thought they were, until there is a significant trade? I will watch less and blog even less than that!

Let’s Go Hawks!

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
2:45 pm

J from the A, in your own post, didn’t you just explain why Teague needs to play more? You just stated that he needs to learn how to recover after getting beat off of the dribble. But isn’t that something he will have to learn in the game play? Who on this team that can beat Teague off the dribble routinely?….Crickets….Crickets….more Crickets… I’m thinking Teague guards Bibby most practices, so that takes away anyone who constantly threatens Teague’s defense. So the only place for him to learn effectively is during the game.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
2:45 pm

KenS – I think the Lakers have played the 29th easiest schedule in the League.

March is when we play our toughest teams. But get this: We only have 3 road games the entire month of March! 11 home games. If we survive all the road games until then, including 7 road games in a row before and after the All Star break, it should be a fun month.

From March 1 – 22 we only have 1 road game, at Chicago, who we play 3 times in March. We play 10 games from the 1st thru the 22nd, 9 at home, and the 1 at Chitown.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
2:48 pm

Lake Side Show!

Personally, I don’t give a damn about the Laker’s problems!
They have countless Championship Banners and Retired Jerseys donning their rafters!

The Hawks can’t even join nor draw from that conversation.
I don’t give a damn about nobody, but these Hawks!
And, as currently constructed? My team is NOT win a damned thing!
Much less a Championship!

Aye Sund! Fix YOUR Team – IT’s Broken!

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
2:52 pm

*typo: NOT win a damned thing …

Fundamentals

January 3rd, 2011
3:16 pm

Josh and Al have really begun to shy away from the paint. I guess I should be proud ZaZa is trying, but we now have a team of “shotmakers”. Maybe it’s Al’s hand, maybe it’s the offense. Maybe it’s Smoove’s head or Smooves head. Both guys need to get back in the paint more to keep our offense from bogging down.

Joe looked good posting up when he went quickly. It seems he has trouble waiting or dealing with the double team when it comes. That’s where the pounding and indecision come in. If he’d just go quickly, he’d be much harder to guard. That’s where Jamal beats him to the punch.

Ken Strickland

January 3rd, 2011
3:17 pm

DRMARYB-AMEN TO THAT! Here’s an excellent example of what you said.

BIBBY(TEAGUE)-GMS PLAYED/STARTED-36/36(32/0), MPG-29.7(12.7), PPG-10.1(4.3), RPG-2.2(1.5), APG-3.9(2.0), FG%-4.69(4.90), 3FG%-.460(.385) FTA-.83(1.1), FT%-.59(.90).

Now, if Teague is as turnover prone, immature, and unprepared to run the team as some of you insist on claiming, then explain how he’s been able to either match, come close to, or exceed Bibby’s production in 17 fewer MPG? Even if we benched Bibby, wouldn’t he still be able to hit those 3pt shots some of us have fallen in love with?

These stats prove that anyone who continues to say Teague isn’t in Bibby’s league as a shooter or scorer, especially in light of his limited opportunities and support, is talking out of his or her A$$. Until Teague get’s a chance to develop his overall gm, he can rely on what he does well to compensate for what he doesn’t do well. It’s a certainty that Bibby will most likely get worse instead of better, no matter what.

SO, DOESN’T IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO LOOK TOWARDS THE FUTURE AND COMMITMENT TO THE VAST TALENTS OF THE UNREALIZE POTENTIAL, RATHER THAN CONTINUE HINDERING THE TEAM BY RELYING ON THE KNOWN LIABILITY?

Fundamentals

January 3rd, 2011
3:21 pm

Drmaryb – RELAX! You’re right about needing something to happen by Feb, but be patient. Excitement is about to hum, league-wide. Maybe just maybe something will happen. If not…like you said. Spend your time elsewhere while we whine and pitch trades b/c ASG/Sund won’t.

I’m just happy there’s daily interest in the team. You gotta be die hard to love our Hawks.

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
3:27 pm

Ramon, excellent point on Teague…dude got a ton of practice last season…now he needs PT in order to develop further.

After the freak accidents that happen to Marvin and Josh…imagine what would happen if something like that happen to Bibby…God forbid that it does…we will be in trouble…THEN U GOTTA THROW TEAGUE IN THE FIRE…ready or not.

However, if you give Teague a couple starts now and he starts to struggle…AT LEASE…you got Bibby ready to go…without Bibby services…Teague struggles as a starter would be magnified…That’s not good for Teague or the team.

i_am_soulstar

January 3rd, 2011
3:29 pm

Co-sign all that Strickland. I said this a few days ago. Teague’s numbers from this season speak loud and clear. But no one seems to care that his PER is higher than both Bibby and Marvin’s PER.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
3:29 pm

KenS – Amen! Right now Teague is a better: Defender than Bibby, better scorer (not shooter), can break down a defense better,and get blocks and steals at a higher rate. I say give Teague the team. Bibby is worn down anyway. He’s only going to learn by playing DeRon. Rose, Wall, Parker etc.

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
3:34 pm

@ Rod,

Since Marvin signed his new contract, this is probably the best 5 game stretch of his career. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts when he comes back from his injury, and if he asserts himself, especially with Jamal and JJ back.

@ Ramon,

Personally, I don’t think Teague can be that bad in practice either. LD and Rick are hitching their wagon to Bibby maintaining his effectiveness all season long, and still being effective in the playoffs.

But in the playoffs, it is very likely that Bibby will be abused on defense, and everyone else will have to try and cover for him.

Speaking of practice though, does LD work with ZaZa on how to set screens? Dude is constantly called for a moving screen (and it was the same thing last year).

Fundamentals,

I enjoyed watching Blake Griffin play (in the first half). He was always looking to take it to the rim. I used to think that is how Josh would play, but with his improved jump shots, and spending more time at SF, Josh hardly takes it hard to the rim anymore. Meanwhile, Al’s first move is to look for the jumper.

Hawks are a jump shooting team, so if those shots are not falling (especially when we play a good defensive team), we will continue to struggle.

slimjr

January 3rd, 2011
3:39 pm

“According to Hollinger (who I distrust) we have played the 28th (out of 30) weakest schedule in the NBA. The Bucks have played the toughest according to him.”

Well get ready Hawks fans. The schedule is going to get tough real soon. Just hold on. FYI JOSH SMITH does not and never will have a “jump shot”.. It is a set shot at best. He is not wired to be a. scorer. That’s why he appears to hesitate many times before hoisting it up and he is very ark-ward around the basket. If Josh becomes your first option in the 4th quarter hoisting up that set shot it will be a real quick exit in in April and an extended summer.
Josh= James Worthy w/o a jump shot and Magic to feed him the ball in his “sweet spot”…Enough said…
Come on Joe save the 3 stooges!! ISO Joe in the 4th quarter every night….

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
3:43 pm

@Ramon: I guess my point is a bit subtle. Yes, I personally think Teague should be getting more playing time. Additionally, I think Teague has the tools to be a solid contributor to this Hawks team in the (hopefully near) future. However, Teague’s defense is not _currently_ as good as many of the bloggers say it is. Currently his defense is not much (any?) better than Bibby’s.

[And if, as many of the bloggers here say, Teague's supposed primary advantage over Bibby is his defense, and if this supposed primary advantage really isn't that much of an advantage .... you should get where this going.]

So, as one of our fellow bloggers put it (roughly): it becomes up to the coach to walk the fine line between getting Teague live in-game action and making sure the Hawks win games. Another way to put this is trying to walk that fine line between trying to develop what may be in the future versus making sure you do your best to take advantage of what is in front of you.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
3:43 pm

“Joe looked good posting up when he went quickly. It seems he has trouble waiting or dealing with the double team when it comes. That’s where the pounding and indecision come in.”
___________________________

Perhaps, this is because his teammates are standing like statutes and watching him, instead of moving without the ball for open passes. Unless, Joe is waving them off to clear out a pathway for an ISO-Play? They should all be moving when Joe is doubled and tripled. Just an observation of the other four guys standing around doing nothing.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
3:45 pm

I think what frustrates us most as Hawks fans, is that we lose games we should win, but rarely win games we should lose. That, and blowouts to bad teams. This happens for 2 main reasons: 1) Poor rotations. 2) Poor decision making on the court

OKC – We could have easily won that game. Josh hoists 2 bricks at crucial times in the 4th.
New Orleans – LD plays Bibby 41 minutes against Chris Paul and Jarrett Jack. Teague and Wilkens DNP coaches decision.
New Jersey – Where’s the inside game?
Detroit – Blown out by 23

That’s the frustrating thing. Josh Powell doesn’t play 6 straight games. Why? Jeff Teague impresses for 3 straight games, then DNP. LD chastises Josh publicly constantly for poor shot selection, yet the jumpers keep flying. Al rarely touches the ball for long stretches. JJ comes back too early from elbow surgery, and keeps letting it fly. Wilkens sits, when he’s clearly an asset in every game he plays in. JC2 hasn’t been in a game since I don’t know when. LD says we need Josh in the paint – not there. It seems like we beat teams on sheer talent alone, but if we had some organization, a strong personality as Coach, maybe we could be elite with this core that we’ve got. But it is frustrating to watch. Each game is an adventure. We never let a bad team get completely out of it. A comedy of errors that is just made up for by talent.

Ken Strickland

January 3rd, 2011
3:45 pm

STEVEW-remember when some of our NEGATIVE MINDED FANS were refusing to give the Hawks credit for their season opening winning streak? They said it was because we were playing teams with losing records. But now that the Lakers are losing against teams with losing records, and losing big, we don’t hear a peep out of them.

When you consider the following, only those without a clue wouldn’t feel better about this yrs Hawks. The team had to:
1-Adjust to a 1st time HC, and his entirely new OFF/DEF systems, approach one of the NBA’s toughest opening schedule, if not the toughest, in terms rd games, and a run of back to backs and 4gms in 5days.
3-deal with losing more key players to injuries, in the 1st 1/4th of the season, than were lost over the previous 2 seasons combined,
4-deal with the most improvement in the Eastern Conference in a decade of more.
5-deal with breaking the bad habits that were allowed to develop and continue over the last 6yrs.

And with all of this, we’re still not far behind last yrs pace, with the schedule getting easier as the season progresses.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
3:48 pm

I think Teague is a much better defender than Bibby overall, but he will have breakdowns on certain possesions. But Teague has the physical tools to figure it out if we would leave him in the game to do so.

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
3:48 pm

Drmaryb, actually the blog has come a long way…it used to be called the liars den…I remember Doc telling me welcome to the liars den…ALL WE DID WAS tell lies and insulted each other…IT WAS GREAT…funny thing is…the trolls didn’t come out until the Hawks started winning…Hey, that’s the price we pay for success…RIGHT…Whatever!!!

Amidst all the trolling…I can still find some good stuff to laugh at…Keep yo stroll on…AND yo laugh on fooooooolk…TPain Halla @ Ya Boy.lol

Peace Out…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
3:50 pm

O’brien, remember Tyrone Hill coaches the big men. He didn’t have to set screens for AI, lol.

Also, I think Josh has thought about the longevity of his career, and realize dunking so much in traffic does cut off time from your career. Aside from Shaq, who was the last high jumping post player that still played effectively above the rim past the age of 32? From McDyess, Kemp, Rasheed, Larry Johnson, and many more, many agents and advisers have learned to advise their clients to develop skills under the rim more, to benefit later. If you think of Garnett, he truly only played above the rim on defense his last few years on Minnesota. You rarely saw him use great force on his dunks in traffic. Instead, you would see Garnett lay the ball up with a finger roll.

Hey would anyone trade Horford for Westbrook, if possible?

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
3:51 pm

KenS – And we are 14-7 in our last 21 games. That’s just not bad.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
3:55 pm

Are You Kidding Me?

“I say give Teague the team. Bibby is worn down anyway. He’s only going to learn by playing DeRon. Rose, Wall, Parker etc.”
______________________________________

Teague is NOT in the Lottery Realm of those PG’s you mentioned.
He is the seventh PG taken in his draft overall. Also, Teague is NOT a true PG!
Which is what this team desperately is in NEED of. He will NEVER be the Hawks final answer at the PG position, because he is a Tweener and NOT a PG!

Somebody, named Sund – needs to do their job and fix this team for the love of basketball!

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
3:56 pm

SteveW, isn’t that a two sided coin? We say Josh’s two jumpers in the 4th called the game, but couldn’t we say Josh’s two jumpers in the 4th won the game last night as well? Right now until Joe is fully healthy, I still cringe MORE when I see Joe taking a 3 attempt than I do when Josh takes it. Josh shot the ball terribly for two weeks. Who in the league doesn’t have a two week streak of bad percentages? I think Josh should be on the block way more than what he is. And I think the difference between Josh and Al at the power forward position is Josh ability to score on the block more efficiently than Al. Josh can over power SF’s and hybrid PF’s. And he’s two quick for most PF’s. I think last night in the first half was the first time in a long time that Josh was guarded by someone that was more athletic than he was. When the last time we’ve seen Josh blocked two times in a quarter (and those were on the block)? But notice that Griffin was on Josh and not Al though Josh was at the SF position. Other coaches must respect Josh’s abilities on the offensive end. The same way Josh is doubled on the block more, while Al normally gets to go one on one on the block.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
4:10 pm

Mike is Back!

Ha Ha … Ok man, I got you. I remember doc’s : Liars Den!
Dang, I haven’t heard that one in years. Yeah, the quality of the blog have improved tremendously in the past four years. And, I guess the ugly trolls do creep out when the winning is consistent. Anyway, LOL!
______________________

Ken Strickland,

Keep up the great posts and glass half full comments! I’m like you, very concerned about the PG position right now. We have NO answers in Bibby nor Teague at this point. Picking the lesser of two evils is NO solution, it’s just spit and glue. We need an organ transplant and not a band-aid there.

Aye Sund! Fix YOUR Team!

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
4:14 pm

Flying High!

Oh yeah! And Josh has been flying all over the gym – doesn’t he need a well defined role. Even, if it is all encompassing to gather his talents efficiently and not make haste and waste when he plays beyond his skills and limitations!

e.g. Let the PG run the fast break transition plays and Josh fill the lanes/wings?

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
4:20 pm

Oh my bad! We don’t have a running PG to deliver a ball to the running wings!
Dang!

dap01

January 3rd, 2011
4:22 pm

We have sport cars for forwards and mopeds for guards.

Who built this team? Was there a plan? Is there a plan now?

Prison Mike

January 3rd, 2011
4:50 pm

Teague can’t finish in traffic so he can’t start until he figures that out. Bibby is no threat at driving and it’s only a matter of time before that 3pt.% starts to bottom out.

i_am_soulstar

January 3rd, 2011
4:52 pm

IMO Teague can fit this team as a starter. Granted, he’s not a true point guard, but isn’t Bibby’s role more of a shooting guard than a true point guard these days?

If you ask me, JJ and Bibby’s positions are interchangeable depending on the possession.

JJ]plays more point guard than Bibby IMO, giving guys the ball right where they like it for more efficient shooting.

Bibby’s moves consist of:
(1) Pump fake, drive, pass
(2) Pump fake, shoot
(3) Catch and shoot.

Now he does all of this very well, but Teague has shown the ability to (1) Defend the PG position
(2) Penetrate and pass
(3) Penetrate and finish

Bibby may have once been a true point guard, but I think he’s more of ashooting guard these days. Teague’s skill set sounds a lot more like starting PG material.

Teague does need to work on that pass selection though, because he has boneheaded turnovers sometimes.

I think once Teague stops doing ill-advised things like passing the ball across his body, he’ll improve in the turnover department.

doc

January 3rd, 2011
4:54 pm

hey ken s, the difference is if the lakers find they can make a move to make things better then they will in a heart beat. it will be interesting to find out what they do going forward.

yeah the blog and characters have changed a bit and grown from the first year. shoot, sometimes during games you could have a conversation with yourself all night long and into the morning. it is better and the trolls are fleeting as long as folks stick to the scroll rule and ignore the crap.

still not on board with teague. he is not doing something right with his head is my guess because if he were that much better he would be out there as ld wants to keep his job not give it away just to make bibby happy. get over the teague thing until he clearly is better and there is nothing i have seen that puts him in that category sod though it is when you cant win a job they are trying yo give to you.

jamillion

January 3rd, 2011
5:03 pm

slimjr,why trade smoove for rudy gay. gay is not a better player,he’s marvin as a number one option.

jamillion

January 3rd, 2011
5:10 pm

good post ken. these b!@tches just post off hate

doc

January 3rd, 2011
5:14 pm

soulstar what finish are you talking about, the one where it is swatted away?

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
5:16 pm

The ONLY difference between yesterday’s game and the Thunder game is that the Thunder are a far better team.

We hardly showed up for much of the 2 games

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
5:17 pm

DrmaryB – I disagree with you on Teague. If handled correctly, he will be the PG on this team in the future, and probably far into the future for a number of reasons. But he is not a true PG, I do agree with that. I just hope we don’t make a boneheaded move and trade him like we did Jason Terry, because he wasn’t a true PG either. But Teague is closer than Terry. And Terry did average 5.5 assists per game for the Hawks.

He was the 7th PG taken, because he was a PG in progress, but with the potential to be the best (yes better than Tyreke, Jennings, Rubio, Lawson, Maynor etc.) of the very deep PG draft of ‘09. Throw him in and let him learn. He’s not going to learn how to guard Rose by guarding Bibby in practice, or by being put on him for 4 minutes, and when Rose blows past him twice, being yanked for the remainder of the game. Start Teague!

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
5:26 pm

I don’t understand why this team comes out so lethargically every damn game. here we are with the opportunity to win the next 7 games and this team will probably lay an egg and go 4-3 or some other mediocre figure.

I’ve almost had it with Smoove. LD tells the guy to start in post and then he can shoot, but this guy is so damn selfish and immature that it’s sickening.

Give me Kevin Love’s energy and numbers on this team any day. I don’t care about Smoove’s shotblocking. Rebounding is more important than shotblocking anyway

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
5:28 pm

I hope Cousins starts tomorrow and Smoove guard him. 2 of the most immature players the NBA has ever seen

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
5:30 pm

Ramon – I got what your saying. We may have lost to OKC even if Josh hadn’t taken those J’s. And we may have won at the Clips even if Josh doesn’t sink those 3’s – somebody else might have, or driven to the basket etc. any # of scenarios. And I do currently cringe when I see JJ take 3’s – horrible.

As a former coach, I guess my beef is when LD publicly asks you to work on your shot selection repeatedly, and you repeatedly hoist up long range J’s in the 4th quarter with 16 seconds on the clock, that’s very disrespectful to the coach, and bleeds off on the team with negativity. So LD sees it, MC sees it, I see it, most of the NBA sees it, but Josh is just Josh. And he’s going to do what he’s going to do, and we either have to like it or lump it.

And if he showed up better in big games. I already know against the Celtics before the game starts, he’s going to start whining in the 1st quarter. Fait accomplii. Going to happen. Same in most big games. Magic series the same last year. Then he disappear’s. Just Josh. Whom I like. 2nd in Defensive Player of the year voting. Youngest player to 1,000 blocks. Slam dunk contest winner. Exciting. But ya gotta take the good with the bad.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
5:33 pm

JeJe – And Smoove has almost stopped blocking shot anyway.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
5:34 pm

JeJe – Smoove on Cousins needs a counseling session, not a referee. Dr. Laura will probably talk to them during the game.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
5:35 pm

Anybody else think Blake could average 40 – 20? Just wondering. I know he probably won’t, but he is a beast!

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
5:37 pm

SteveW,

“But Teague is closer than Terry. And Terry did average 5.5 assists per game for the Hawks.”

Teague is only like Terry in the sense that he is fast. Jason Terry was always a shooter, Teague never was. I think the best comparison is Tony Parker, but Teague can’t finish, while Tony Parker always could finish amongst the trees. Teague needs more minutes before he is compared to anyone. Our hope should be that he ends up being a Tony Parker type player.

Melvin

January 3rd, 2011
5:39 pm

Hawks redefine insanity byt Hoopsworld. I think the article would’ve had more merit if they would not have said Joe join the Hawks 2008 (instead of 2005)…

Let’s review. The Hawks grabbed Johnson during the summer of 2008, hoping he would be the new franchise player and elevate the Hawks to contenders in the Eastern Conference.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18365#ixzz1A0w91YDV

Let’s review. The Hawks grabbed Johnson during the summer of 2008, hoping he would be the new franchise player and elevate the Hawks to contenders in the Eastern Conference.

J from the A

January 3rd, 2011
5:41 pm

Put Josh on the Timberwolves and he would average 20 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 2+ blocks, 1.5 steals per game… easily. (And before you all start shouting that these numbers are not realistic for Josh on any team, you may want to check his current stats.)

Plus you guys whine about Josh’s shot selection. Love takes twice as many 3’s as Josh and is shooting at a comparable percentage.

Apples to apples, Josh Smith > Kevin Love. The competition isn’t even close.

Worldwide Clyde

January 3rd, 2011
5:52 pm

Free Jordan Crawford. We need to give him minutes so he can be ready for next year because the Spirit group too broke to resign Jamal.

Boooo!

January 3rd, 2011
5:56 pm

You arent looking at the big picture. YOU NEED MORE DEFENSE IN A STARTING LINEUP THAN OFFENSE. This doesnt man that Old Man Bibby wont get his PT. He just has a better shot at not being a liability at this stage in hisw carer if he is defending backup PG’s and torching them with his J….from the bench!

I’ve got two lineups:

STARTERS

Teague
Joe
Josh
J. Powell
Horford

BENCH:

Bibby/JC2
JC1
Marvin/Wilkins/Sy
Marvin
Zaza/TWIN

STARTERS:

Teague
Joe
Josh
Al
TWIN

BENCH:

Bibby/JC2
JC1
Marvin/Wilkins/Sy
Marvin
Zaza/Etan

There is not a lot of scoring that goes on in the first 8-10 minutes of the game. And when you consider the defensive apptitiude of players like Smoove, Horford, JJ, Teague, and Twin; there is no way we end up looking like fools and continue to get outscored in first quaters of games. Teague can also RUN the break which will open up more scoring oppourtunities for Smoove/Horford.

Did you think about the fact that we will have one of the best offensive benches in the league with JC1/JC2, Bibby, Marvin, and Zaza coming off of it? Teams won’t be able to play ther second units against us. We will blitz teams in the 2nd quater of games and blow them out before the know what hit them.

Some of you have no vision at all. If teague is playing bad, then insert Bibby. But the Old man needs to sit down somewhere. Idon’t think there are many teams in the league (other than us) that would start Bibby at this point.

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
5:56 pm

SteveW,

“Same in most big games. Magic series the same last year. Then he disappear’s. Just Josh.”

No, that’s Marvin. Josh has been our second best player for the last 3 years. Best defender, and I would consider the playoffs a good indicator. His numbers in the playoffs are very close to his regular season averages for those years, except his FG% is lower, because he is playing much better defensive teams.

07-08 15.7ppg 6.4rpg 39%FG
08-09 17.1ppg 7.5rpg 42%FG
09-10 14.1ppg 9.0rpg 48%FG

Sautee

January 3rd, 2011
6:07 pm

J from the A said this:

“I, too, wish Teague got at least a little more playing time, but I am not ready to fault LD for this. After all, LD (and the rest of the coaching staff) sees a lot more of Teague than we do (e.g., practice, etc.). They are in a much better position than we are to gauge how to appropriately walk that fine line. [This isn't meant to say that I think LD is doing it right. This is meant to say that I am a bit skeptical that we truly know better than LD.]”

Well said!

I think ALL fans tend to think that they could coach better than whomever is there. We tend to forget all the “other” time that they spend with these players.

If they DON’T know more than us after seeing the players as much as they do, then something is way wrong.

But it’s difficult for some to admit that the coaches might know more than they do.

Good post.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
6:16 pm

Developmental League!

“I think once Teague stops doing ill-advised things like passing the ball across his body, he’ll improve in the turnover department.”
________________________________

Sounds like Brett Farve throwing interceptions across his body after 17 years of winning big games and multiple Super Bowls – hugh?
Here’s my point: The NBA is NO where you work on fundamental skills on a play off winning team. The NBA coaches aren’t afforded the luxury of developing basic fundamental basketball skills. That is what 4 years of College and The NBDL is for. By the time Teague figures out how to be a NBA starter, if ever, the coach will have been long gone.
_____________________

Jason Terry was and is NOT a PG, nor a leader and was a turnover machine himself. He costs us many games in the 4th Qrtr. And, the story remains – wee need a True PG. Sorry people, Teague is nOT one and we don’t have the time to change his dirty diapers. These kids really need to stay in school. They are ruining their own development by coming to The NBA and rotting on the benches. That’s why Stern stopped high-schoolers from coming to the NBA.
This is a Grown Mans Business. These kids can’t even buy a six pack of beer and in locker rooms with 37 year old burly men, who have kids their age.
After games, the men go to strip clubs and the kids order milk and burgers from room service and master play station video games while on the road.
They should be in a gym til midnight taking 500 made jumpers daily.
That’s what MJ and Kobe did and Ray Allen takes practice jumpers 4 hours before each game now. Where is that dedication from Teague and Marvin?

We need to earn how to draft NBA Ready talent.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
6:27 pm

Jet Terry!

Was drafted to be our PG after Mookie left. We quickly found out under Terry Stotts that Terry was NEVER gonna be a PG. We traded him to Dallas for their 10th pick and chose Acie Law that year. Before that Eric Gray?, Salim Stoudamire, now Teague:

None of these players were PG’s, and too small for SG. We were rebuilding and Terry was of No value here at that time. The Hawks needed everything from 1 to 5 and a Bench! Terry had to go and we started from scratch with Billy Knight and Joe Johnson. Dampieer and Kenyon Martin courted The Hawks but, never intended to sign, but to leverage our offer against better teams offers.

Yes, we were used by mid-level players. We Never had a Super-Star caliber player even sniff our jock, until Joe came here and none since. Joe is NOT a Super-Star, but he is the closet we have ever seen since Dikembe and Mookie.
That’s better than nothing, people. We had no choice but to resign him for that max contract! If not Joe, then who?

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
6:28 pm

Jet Terry!

Was drafted to be our PG after Mookie left. We quickly found out under Terry Stotts that Terry was NEVER gonna be a PG. We traded him to Dallas for their 10th pick and chose Acie Law that year. Before that Eric Gray?, Salim Stoudamire, now Teague:

None of these players were PG’s, and too small for SG. We were rebuilding and Terry was of No value here at that time. The Hawks needed everything from 1 to 5 and a Bench! Terry had to go and we started from scratch with Billy Knight and Joe Johnson. Dampieer and Kenyon Martin courted The Hawks but, never intended to sign, but to leverage our offer against better teams offers.

Yes, we were used by mid-level players. We Never had a Super-Star caliber player even sniff our jock, until Joe came here and none since. Joe is NOT a Super-Star, but he is the closet we have ever seen since Dikembe and Mookie.
That’s better than nothing, people. We had no choice but to resign him for that max contract! If not Joe, then who?
______________________

News Flash! Melo, LeBron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq was NEVER gonna’ walk through that door!

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
6:34 pm

IMO, most bloggers are not necessarily upset with Josh taking jumpers. We are upset with when he takes the jumpers.

For example, yesterday, first possession of the game, Bibby crosses half-court, passes the ball to Josh, and he jacks up a jumper. There was probably 15 seconds left on the shot-clock. And its the first possession of the game.

Or when he gets the ball, with somebody on him…and he pump fakes once, pump fakes twice, and then shoots a jumper.

Those are the kind of shots that I dont want him taking.

If the guards break down their defender, and pass to Josh behind the arc, and he catches and shoots in rhythym, I am okay with those shots.

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
6:41 pm

One team is the 2 time defending NBA champions, led by proven winners (Kobe and Fisher), and a HC with 11 championships.

The other team is led by a rookie HC, and has a history of folding in the playoffs.

So which team should fans be giving the benefit of the doubt?

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
6:44 pm

OBrien

Enthusiastic Co-Sign re: Josh’s Jumpers.
Even if, he and Al are draining them? That is soft playing, because they are NOT in the paint where they belong and where this team need them to be.
At least Woodson had their asses glued to the paint for:

Power
Muscle
Offensive Development
Offensive Rebounds
Put Backs
And – 1’s
FT attempts

And, basically to demoralize their opponents. Like a) in football pounding and demoralizing the defense. It’s an IDENTITY issue for me that we play soft and are a jump-shooting team from 1 to 5! So so sad.

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
6:44 pm

Ken S,

Same thing with Boston last year. When they were injured and losing games, they deserved the benefit of the doubt based on their history (they won a title 2 years before).

And what do you know? They turned it up late when guys were healthy, and made it all the way back to the NBA finals.

Would anyone be surprised if the Lakers get it together, and make it all the way to the NBA finals? I wouldnt.

But what have the Hawks done in the playoffs the last 3 years?

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
6:52 pm

* like a running back in football, pounding the ball and demoralizing the opponent….

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
7:35 pm

Rod – It was the against the Bucks Josh disappeared in 4 of the 7 games. Pts. 7, 7, 10, 12. Averaged less than a steal per game for the series, and 2.4 Blocks.(very good) for the series.
Against the Magic he only had 2 blocks the entire series. I like Josh. I’ve just seen way to many times against quality opponents he lets something get in his head, then goes long stretches basically being invisible on the court except for his whining.

Teague is nowhere nearly as good as JET was in the League in his 2nd season. But I would say that he has even more potential. As far as observation, college and pro and summer league, I say Jeff Teague is more of a natural PG than Jason Terry. Observations of a former coach. It comes natural.

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
7:59 pm

Steve, how could Josh have more than two blocks against the Magic, when majority of the teams only take jump shots, and D12 is rarely blocked under the rim? How is he supposed to block the shots of Lewis, Carter, Barnes or any of the perimeter players if they’re just shooting from the outside? Josh had just as good of a series as anyone on the team. His numbers were better than Joe, Horford, JC1, and Bibby. People say Josh gave up because he didn’t get back on 2 plays on defense because he was talking to the referee. Two plays out of four games doesn’t make a series. How many plays Joe doesn’t get back on? How many plays a game JC1 and Bibby half hearted try to run out to open shooters?

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
8:05 pm

Also Steve Josh didn’t disappear in four of the games against Milw. Look and see how many minutes Josh played in game 7 against the Bucks. And see what the point advantage was for the entire game. Sorry to say this, but Josh is the one player who has proven the most in crunch time of all the Hawk players in a Hawk jersey (I know Bibby was clutch in Sac, but what has he done in Atl in the clutch?). How many blocks have Josh got in the last minute of a game (remember D. Wade)? How many defensive rebounds have Josh grabbed to close out a game?

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
8:22 pm

Josh needs to focus on turning his negative energy (whining, barking at teammates, etc) into a different type of energy……A type of energy that Matt Barnes, Artest, Kobe, and Kirk Hinrich possess.

This means picking up technical fouls when needed, getting in people’s faces, committing hard fouls, and making people scared of him. He is the only player on the team with this capability.

Those aforementioned guys are all uncomfortable people to play against (no homo). Smoove needs to be that guy for this team

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
8:28 pm

Rod, my man, you can’t give Smoove a free pass.

We all know Duck is soft as toilet tissue, but Smoove has been pissing [most] of us off. The guy is so damn immature, it’s sickening.

I am 99.9999999% sure that Horford cannot stand being on the same team as him.

I’d trade Smoove for DeAndre Jordan and someone else in a heartbeat. He can come off the bench there.

It’s amazing that he actually thinks he can dribble and be like LBJ.

LOL @ Michael Moron Jr. thinking that Smoove is the closest thing to LBJ in the league. LBJ doesn’t go scoreless in a half against the freaking Clippers

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
8:30 pm

Jeje, when did Josh go scoreless for a half against the Clippers?

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
8:31 pm

Also Jeje, who get in as many categories consistently as Josh? And how is Josh the 3rd or 4th option on the team, yet he leads the team in Hollinger ratings (which is highly respected among NBA officials and coaches?

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
8:34 pm

The only top category that Josh isn’t in the top three on the team is in free throw percentage. Who else on the team can also say that?

Melvin

January 3rd, 2011
8:49 pm

MC,

Will Damien get waived by Wednesday deadline for contracts to become guarantee?

O'Brien

January 3rd, 2011
9:01 pm

Ramon,

My biggest concern with Josh is that by the time we get to the playoffs, he will not be the rim protector he used to be, because he spends so much time on the perimeter (especially with LD playing him at SF).

I am also concerned that with his new and improved jump shot, he will take jump shots at key moments of a close game, and we will have to live with the result.

However, I also cringe when JJ takes his 3s, because he is struggling big time.

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
9:03 pm

JeJe,

While I will admit that I am partial to Josh because he is from College Park, I am by no means giving him a free pass. I am only stating the facts. I hate Josh shooting 3’s, but if the numbers indicate that he is shooting 3’s at a higher clip than Joe Johnson, and Marvin Williams then who are we to say he should not shoot them. He has a higher FG% than Joe, and Marvin’s FG% is 48%, and Josh’s is 47% with many more shots. I sometimes think he gets a bad rap because of his attitude. I for one love guys who play with emotion (good or bad), and show that they really want to be the best. I do not care for the Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams (no emotion guys). Josh hustles more than anyone on the team, as witnessed by his blocks. I have seen him run past Joe, Marvin, and Horford numerous times to make a play, but he is criticized for arguing a call in the playoffs 2 times, and now he never hustles. I guess he got all those blocks playing his own man (LOL). I love Horford’s game (no homo), but Horford does not play good interior defense, Josh does. If you really think about everything Josh does for this team, how can we honestly say stop shooting jumpers, when his percentages are higher than the best player on the team. He is one of the top rebounders on the team, best defender, at the top in steals, at the top in assist, top 3 or four in scoring, top in intimidation, and shoots a high percentage from the field, plays injured and rarely misses a game, but we don’t want him shooting jumpers. OK. Take the good, and live with the bad.

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
9:05 pm

Ramon,

We are on he same page. Agreed

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
9:12 pm

Jeje,

My personal opinion is that until we get a true point guard, who can run the team, and direct guys to where he wants them to be, and play to their strengths, the Josh you see know is the Josh we are stuck with. Do you think Josh would be shooting 3’s and jumpers if Nash, Kidd, Rondo, Paul or Derron Williams were running the point? I don’t. Obviously his teammates think he can hit those shots because they keep passing up shots to get him jump shots, so maybe he hits them in practice all the time like Marvin. Who knows.

Ramon

January 3rd, 2011
9:26 pm

O’Brien, I understand. But is Josh not leading the team in free throws attempt currently? So is he not truly playing inside more than anyone else on the team? Also the Hawks (other than Crawford and Teague) currently have no one capable of driving and dishing under the rim from the open man (from help defender leaving on the block) to take advantage of that. Personally, I believe part of this is more on LD than it is on Josh. I’ve said many times that I think the only teams the Hawks should consider going big against is LAL and Orlando. Any other team live and die with your match ups and exploit them. Josh is clearly a better defensive option at the four than Al is. Or if you’re going to go big, let Al guard the three on defense, and play the three position on offense. Both ways this will still put Josh closer to the rim.

slimjr

January 3rd, 2011
9:42 pm

@jamillion
“slimjr,why trade smoove for rudy gay. gay is not a better player,he’s marvin as a number one option.”

Take your pick. Rudy has a higher basketball IQ then both, and is one of the best young finishers around the rim. Can also shoot 3’s (real Jump shots) at 6′9″ and make them.He also has a nice mid range game, which neither has. Notice how he dropped 27 on the World Champs last night on the road and got a win! Hawks could not do that in this lifetime with Josh or Duck…

JeJe and I can see that Josh is not going to take this franchise to the ECF or Championship.. Time to ship him out while he still has value…This team peaked last year. Its gonna go down hill from here..Sund jettison the core! Make it so!

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
10:05 pm

Getting Back!

Ramon said this:

“How many plays Joe doesn’t get back on? ”
_______________________________

Yes Ramon, can you please tell us all – how many?
I have never seen this problem in Joe’s game.
Ramon makes this stuff up as he goes along, too bad key boards don’t have a BS-Meter.

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
10:12 pm

Ramon,

I meant Josh was held without a field goal.

I don’t care about Hollinger’s dumb system. The bottom line is Smoove can be a star in this league but he will NEVER grow up

Rev in Tampa

January 3rd, 2011
10:17 pm

Rod from College Park said that Josh Smith is from College Park. I thought Josh was from Albany, GA. Am I wrong?

Mike is back

January 3rd, 2011
10:17 pm

Drmaryb, thanks for the shout back…you are one of the best this blog has to offer…trust me…your present would be sorely missed…Word UP!!

Doc, can’t agree with you on Teague…that which you wish to see from Teague…can only come with playing time…even Al had to work hard to improve his offensive skills when he first came in the league…they all did…what makes Teague any different???

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
10:17 pm

And can we (MC included) stop calling this LD’s Motion Offense? It is hardly different from last year. Just a bunch of athletic guys playing 1 on 1

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:19 pm

Fact Check:

Ramon said this, “But is Josh not leading the team in free throws attempt currently?” Implying that Josh is leading the team in FTA’s per game in the context of his conversation, which could be quoted if needed. The Facts are:

JJ 4.5 FTA’s per game
Jamal 4.4
Josh 4.1 per game

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
10:20 pm

Rod,
I agree completely

This team does not have a point guard. Bibby is unathletic, old, and plays no defense

Teague does nothing on offense

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:22 pm

Rod – You said, “While I will admit that I am partial to Josh because he is from College Park..”

Thank you. I respect you as one of the best bloggers on here, but your Josh bias is obvious. And it’s ok. Thanks for admitting though.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:23 pm

Rev – I live in the Albany area, and you are in fact wrong.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:30 pm

Ramon asked this, “Steve, how could Josh have more than two blocks against the Magic, when majority of the teams only take jump shots, and D12 is rarely blocked under the rim? How is he supposed to block the shots of Lewis, Carter, Barnes or any of the perimeter players if they’re just shooting from the outside?”

I guess the same way he blocked 4 shots against them in 2 different games during the regular season last year, on Jan. 30th and March 24th., that’s how. The dude quit at times plain and simple. You said it yourself, you just understated how he then halfway got back for a while after these 2 times.

Ramon said it like this, “People say Josh gave up because he didn’t get back on 2 plays on defense because he was talking to the referee.” But Ramon, it had a little more effect than that. Bad teammate at those times.

If he could just be Josh without the whining…

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
10:31 pm

It seems like every game we find out the matchup on offense in which we can exploit the other team (this is a good thing obviously). Then after 3 minutes we completely go away from that.

It happened in a game a couple weeks ago vs. Boston where Marvin destroyed Ray Allen on 2 early possessions then did not get the ball vs. Allen again til like the 3rd quarter.

It happened a bit with Joe yesterday. We could’ve utilized him even more than we did

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:35 pm

Rod, you said “and now he never hustles.” Talking about Josh. Did I miss something, or did someone say Josh never hustled? We are just talking about how he let’s certain plays affect his psyche, and then he becomes invisible for stretches, except for his whining.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:50 pm

BTW – Most NBA people think that Horford’s interior defense is very good, except for Blocks, and against a few of the bigger Centers.

And glad we didn’t do any of these Diop or Butler trades. Both probably out for the rest of the season.

Rev in Tampa

January 3rd, 2011
10:51 pm

I agree with Ken regarding Bibby. I admire the way Bibby stepped it up at the beginning of the season on defense. He surprised everyone with effort, but it is clear he has given everything in his tank and is still lacking. Teague has to take the reigns of the offense to give this team the POSSIBILITY of improving. Leaving Bibby at the point is to give up on this team for this year because they have reached their ceiling in regard to their potential with Bibby getting so many minutes on the floor. .

Assuming that Coach Drew keeps Bibby at the point this season and Sund keeps his ‘core’, then what does this mean for the future? Will Bibby be the starter for the 2011-2012 season? No one can possibly think he will be. But they will have been a playoff team this year so they will not be picking low enough to find a point in the draft that could realistically start for the Hawks. So Teague would have to start next year whether he is ready or not.

My point is, Teague is the future whether we like or not. We know our ceiling with Bibby. We will find out where Teague will take us, if not this year then next. Give it to Teague now. We may be pleasantly surprised.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
10:52 pm

Fact Check!

SteveW, if you ran a Fact Check on everything Ramon says on here?
Then, you would busier than a one-legged man in a rump kicking contest.

And, that my friend is real!
_______________________

Sorry Ramon, I love you like a Brother, but I’ve got to call you out when them gums start bumping lies. You know me, I fight dirty! Because, I got to keep ALL things real, when it comes to my Hawks! -smiles-
You can’t bash my team with lies and innuendos! I won’t stand for it.
____________________________

Mike is Back!

And, I for one am glad as hell! You see, Mike keeps it real 24/7/365.
What up Mike baby, man I’ve been on here baby-sitting all the baby bloggers.
They’re all crying, so I got to get them their rattles and pacifiers.

Hey, Mike, I don’t want to gut the team and start over. Just want to fix the glaring holes at PG & C for now. Whatever, it takes Mike, by any means necessary. Keep it coming Big-Mike! -smile-

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:54 pm

And as far as Josh leading the Hollinger rankings, Al has a better per by a longhsot.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2011
10:56 pm

Co-sign Rev and Drmaryb.

And Ramon, you make some extremely good posts sometimes. But I think your just blinded out of favoritism to Josh.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
11:04 pm

Hot Garbage!

“I am 99.9999999% sure that Horford cannot stand being on the same team as him.”
___________________________

Yeah … Someone really said that! Unbelievable, I couldn’t make this stuff up, just an example of how much BS we have to scroll past, to get to the end.

SMH

Rev in Tampa

January 3rd, 2011
11:07 pm

SteveW,

I’ve got roots in south GA as well. My mom was born in Albany and my dad was born and raised in Cordele (birthplace of my favorite all-time Hawk: Tree Rollins). My mom was raised in Rochelle,GA.

Thanks for the correcton on Josh. But I have met a young man from Albany who could be the future Josh Smith. He is in 8th grade here in the Tampa area. He and his mom moved here over a year ago and she is in my Rotary Club. He is already 6′2″ and off the charts atheletically. He is already generating buzz in a big city.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
11:27 pm

Ramon!

I hope you know I am having some serious fun with you buddy-love.
I know you have thick skin and I always enjoy your passion and enthusiasm in your posts. That is apparent, you just get carried away sometimes with the hard facts.

Try adding a few key words to your stuff, for example:

Allegedly
I believe
I think
Somebody help me out here – where’s NorthCyde?
Correct me if I’m wrong (I’m way too lazy to research)

The last two are my all-time favorites. -Giggles-
Just a little help with CYA on the evil blog.

JeJe

January 3rd, 2011
11:32 pm

“Hot Garbage!

“I am 99.9999999% sure that Horford cannot stand being on the same team as him.”
___________________________

Yeah … Someone really said that! Unbelievable, I couldn’t make this stuff up, just an example of how much BS we have to scroll past, to get to the end.

”

Do you even watch the games? It’s obvious Horford finds Smoove immature as hell (he called Smoove out and hurt his feelings earlier in the season). I am sure everyone else on the board agrees with me on this one.

Rod from College Park

January 3rd, 2011
11:33 pm

SteveW

“Rod, you said “and now he never hustles.” Talking about Josh. Did I miss something, or did someone say Josh never hustled? We are just talking about how he let’s certain plays affect his psyche, and then he becomes invisible for stretches, except for his whining.”

Many on this blog, have made the claim that Josh argues and never gets back on defense. Not particularly you. Again if Josh becomes invisible for stretches, then I hate to hear your opinion on Marvin, and Bibby. If they are not hitting shots, they really bring nothing else to the table. Josh affects the game on both ends of the floor, so I really don’t agree with you on the he becomes invisible thing.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 3rd, 2011
11:54 pm

Crystal Ball!

Jeje how can you or anyone begin to know what is in a man’s heart?
Come on man. If Al hated playing with Josh so much, why did he re-sign for pennies on the dollar? He could have picked his team and bank rolled that.

Don’t let your emotions trump valor and truth.
I’m just keeping it real on here!

-Smile Baby- it’s all good, we both love our Hawks!

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2011
12:25 am

I think Teague’s problems with asserting himself, and taking over the team when he’s in the gm, is due to the presence of JJ, Jamal and Smoove, 3 very strong on the court personalities. When you have MBibby, a veteran PG that’s heavily favored by the HC, consistently deferring to them, it makes it hard for a young inexperienced PG like Teague to come in on a limited basis and change the way things are done.

Let’s face it, his job isn’t to create on court friction between he and the teams leaders and/or key players. Out of habit, and/or what they know, players inbounding the ball usually give it to JJ or Jamal, if they’re in the gm or in position to receive the inbound pass.

A lot of this falls on LDrew’s shoulders. If he really wants Teague to step up and take over the team and the OFF, he’d make it perfectly clear to JJ, Jamal, Smoove, and everyone else, that Teague will be the one controlling the ball and the OFF. There’s no doggone way LDrew should be sitting back and waiting for Teague to take it upon himself to do what no other PG has been allowed to do over the last 4-5yrs, including Bibby.

Bibby was given the keys to the team this yr despite last yrs OFF/DEF woes, and his documated OFF/DEF liabilities/limitations. He did have a very good training camp and preseason, but so did Teague, until he got hurt. It’s time for LDrew to stop making excuses and overlook the perceived weaknesses in Teague’s overall gm, turn the team over to him, and work with him on those perceived weaknesses as the season progresses.

That is the only possible way the Hawks will become a better playoff team, short of trading for a starting quality PG.

slimjr

January 4th, 2011
12:26 am

“Thanks for the correcton on Josh. But I have met a young man from Albany who could be the future Josh Smith. He is in 8th grade here in the Tampa area. He and his mom moved here over a year ago and she is in my Rotary Club. He is already 6′2″ and off the charts atheletically. He is already generating buzz in a big city.”

Lets hope this kid learns some fundamentals unlike Josh.. Give him the Magic Johnson basketball DVD training..

slimjr

January 4th, 2011
12:32 am

Trade Mike and Teague and a 1st round plus cash for DWILL. Man he is the answer for the Hawks since the greatest point guard to ever lace up shoes for the Hawks, Mookie Blaylock…We miss ya Mookie!!!!!!!!

Come on Joe keep hoisting those real jump shots.. The franchise needs you desperately to step up..
Orlando has won six straight! Oh no…….

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
12:32 am

SteveW, where in my statement did I say FTA per game? I said he’s leading them in FTA. And he is. Josh has 146 FTA, JC1 has 131 FTA, Joe has 122 FTA and Horford, our starting center has 104 FTA. So how does Josh not have more FTA’s than anyone on the team? Then you can say Josh hasn’t missed as many games as Joe or Jamal. And while you would be using that to prove one point. You’d also be proving that through his career Josh has been one of the most durable players in the league, and perhaps the most durable player on this team.

Drmaryb, if you ever visited ESPN, NBA.com and viewed the stats, you would not make a comment like that. My posts are pretty accurate anytime I post stats or talk about performances. I was in a meeting so couldn’t respond promptly, sorry. But I don’t take anything to heart on here. Its sports, you’re supposed to talk trash, lol. But I can back up what I post.

Boooo!

January 4th, 2011
12:35 am

What about Bibby and Mo for Kirk Heinrich? WAS doest want any competitiony between Wall and Bibby could be his mentor. Also WAS will be taking on an expiring contract in Mo and a lesser deal in Bibby.

Then all we have to do is package Marvin, Zaza, Etan, and Damien for Andre Igoudala. Then sign Jarron Collins who just got wived by the clippers for finincial reasons. And sign Kyle Weaver out of the D league andBring back up Pape.

BTW I went on a clipper blog and they think Bibby is overpaid. They are ready to part with Davis(not who they thought he would be) and Kaman(inconsistent) it seems to be 50/50

They also want a wing. They are tired of Ryan Gomes and Rasual Butler, but they like Al Farouq Aminu. They are interested in Prince, Iguodala, and Melo (obviously)

The clips would be a good candidate for a 3-6 team deal with us, the nets, DET, DEN, and NJ

Just some random thoughts.

Boooo!

January 4th, 2011
12:38 am

*WAS doesn’t want any competition between Heinrich (who has stated he wants to play a significant role if not start) and Wall. Bibby would be the perfect backup for them. Plus he costs less than Heinrich.

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2011
12:41 am

It’s amazing how some claim Teague shouldn’t be allowed to start because he doesn’t have a consistent jumpshot, when it’s obvious to everyone else that DEFENSE is our biggest problem. And Bibby certainly isn’t the answer for improving anyone’s DEF.

I was corrected earlier, and rightfully so, about Teague being a scorer, not a shooter. With his speed, quickness, athleticism, scoring ability, ability to penetrate and get to the FT line, ability to generate more assists per min than Bibby, and the improvement he adds defensively, how can we continue hurting ourselves with Bibby’s numerous short comings just because Teague doesn’t shoot the 3 as well as Bibby?

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
12:51 am

SteveW, I think its the opposite of being favoritism to Josh. I just think I value the game different then many. I see a lot of times when Josh should drive the ball instead of settling for the jumper. But as I’ve said before, who on the Hawks team doesn’t do that? Just about everyone on the team takes too many jumpers. Zaza may be the only player who doesn’t.

Also I value defense more than offense. If Josh makes 2 or 3 bad plays on offense with the ball. But every other starter makes 3 or 4 misreads on defense that leads to the opposition scoring. I think Josh had the better game. If your main focus is stopping the opponent from scoring 90 points, you don’t need to score 105 points. And I speak about the positive things about Josh because so many only concentrate on the negative. And fail to realize Josh is part of what’s right with this team, and not what’s wrong. Josh gets an attitude for over 2 seasons because he kept insisting the back court go through the front court on offense. How many times did Sekou comment about Josh being mad that the guards weren’t sharing the ball? If every great coach says to feed the post first, how do people turn and say Josh doesn’t have basketball IQ when Josh is clearly the leader on defense. Kobe pouted for 2 seasons and it got him Gasol. Josh pouts and it gets him people saying he doesn’t want to win. Lebron pouts every time the referees don’t pucker up. Amare pouts every other play. Barkley pouted his entire career. K. Malone walked around with an attitude and stayed on the referees as much as anyone not named Rodman. There are so many great players who have attitudes and are moody that its crazy to fuss about one being so.

slimjr

January 4th, 2011
12:54 am

Bibby shoots light years better than Teague and we have a weak a@@ #3 in Duck(critical scoring position) in the NBA today, LD needs some scoring from somebody else besides Joe and JC1. Bibby may have the most accurate jump shot on the Hawks at this time..Josh disappears like his “brother Duck” from time to time on offense to keep the Hawks from becoming contenders against the elites… The train wreck is coming… keep watching…

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
12:55 am

Drmaryb, also there have been many times when Joe hasn’t made any effort to get back on a breakaway when he could have caught the player. To be honest, Marvin hustles more than Joe does. (not saying Marvin is better, but he does hustle more). Joe was the first one to give up last season, because he didn’t even decide to show up in the playoffs. Its almost like Leslie Nielson replaced Joe with a robot, lol.

slimjr

January 4th, 2011
12:58 am

You can’t win championships with a dude like Josh and his stinking attitude..His offensive skills do not match his HUGE ego..
Josh for Rudy yesterday….

Boooo!

January 4th, 2011
1:18 am

Jaron Collins was waived by the clippers today. Twin X 2 anyone? Two 7 footers would be awesome. Especially against teams like Boston and ORL.

Boooo!

January 4th, 2011
1:19 am

*Jarron

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
1:23 am

Add Jarron and waive Thomas, I’m for it. Jarron was always the better defensive one of the brothers.

drmaryb (*_*)

January 4th, 2011
2:57 am

Ramon

When you lock-down the other teams Superstar and guard 3 positions, and draw double-triple teams, all while being booed? Sometimes, you have to pace yourself.

Joe is a human being not a trade-machine. Normally, he also brings the ball up on offense, while Bibby is resting and he is playing 48 minutes per night.
Hell, just three years ago Joe lead the entire NBA in minutes played, that was the first play-offs in 13 years!
___________________________

Geez! How soon the in grates forget how gawd awful these Hawks were.
Where is the Logic? Where does the arrogant fan come from?

Najeh Davenpoop

January 4th, 2011
4:37 am

These comments are like a broken record. Every game regardless of the result the same people say the same sh-t regardless of how well the sh-t they say matches up with the facts. Oh well.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 4th, 2011
4:44 am

“It’s amazing how some claim Teague shouldn’t be allowed to start because he doesn’t have a consistent jumpshot, when it’s obvious to everyone else that DEFENSE is our biggest problem.”

I’m a Teague fan, but his problems go beyond just not shooting well consistently. He is too tentative on offense and doesn’t fully understand when to attack, when to defer, when to take the shot, when to drive, etc. yet. Even in the previous game, there was one possession where he passed up an open shot to drive, not realizing that the shot clock was at 4, and when his driving lane got cut off he passed it out to the perimeter — and by that time the shot clock had expired.

Of course, as I said often last year, he’s not going to learn these things by sitting on the bench, and it’s important to give him the regular playing time necessary so he can gain confidence and improve the mental aspect of his game. It’s asking a lot for LD to let him play through these mistakes and potentially waste possessions in a close game, but on the flip side, if he doesn’t get that chance he’s never going to develop.

To be honest, something that would force LD’s hand, like an injury to Bibby or Jamal, is probably what’s going to get Teague the regular playing time he needs to either develop into a reliable rotation player or prove that he ain’t got it. Ultimately it comes back to Sund and the unbalanced roster he has constructed.

KevinM

January 4th, 2011
4:47 am

I see those who are wondering why aren’t the Lakers getting criticism like the Hawks……ummm, don’t the Lakers deserve a pass because they simply have beaten everyone in the league when it counts?
The way these Hawks play, there is no way they can just flip a switch like the Lakers or even Boston. They don’t know how to be a championship team.

This team is at its peak IMO; winning a game in the 2nd round doesn’t constitute improvement. You lose JC1 from this roster, you have no points off the bench…especially when Marvin starts and he feels like he deserves that slot no matter the results.

JoJo the Godfather

January 4th, 2011
6:04 am

Pape Sy having an awful time in his first couple d-league games…1 for 9 from field, and averaging 3 assists & 4 turnovers per game.

Rev in Tampa

January 4th, 2011
6:54 am

JoJo,

Thanks for the Pape update. I’ve been curious how he is doing.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2011
7:32 am

JJ has the potential to be All NBA defense if he put his mind to it. But to my naked eye, it looks like he takes plays off sometimes.

And I don’t blame him. Part of it is because he has to save his energy to play a lot of minutes and handle the bulk of the offensive load.

Plus he gets stuck guarding Bibby’s guy a lot, and sometimes he even guards Marvin’s guy, so he is not able to exert himself defensively every possession. He has to pick his spots.

Marvin is a good defender, but we need him to become a great defender, so he can take more of the defensive pressure off JJ.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2011
7:41 am

Ken S,

Bibby was not given the starting PG keys this season. LD said (over the offseason) that the PG job is there for the taking, but Teague was unable to take it (for various reasons).

If you compare Teague’s game to Jordan’s game there is quite a difference. When Jordan (the rookie) comes into the game, he has no problems taking his shots, regardless of who is on the court with him. He is aggressive and confident immediately.

Teague, on the other hand, seems very passive and unsure of himself. He has to find it within himself (which is one reason LD hired Nick Van Exel) to me more aggressive and more assertive.

As for next year’s PG situation, keep in mind that even with Jamal and Mo Evans off the books, the Hawks still have $64 mil committed in salary for next season already.

And the consensus is that there will be a new CBA with lower salary cap and a lower luxury tax threshold.

So next year, we will be looking at an older Bibby and hopefully an improved Teague as our PGs again.

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
7:42 am

O’brien, I didn’t say I don’t understand Joe doing it. But Drmaryb questioned the fact that Joe doesn’t take plays off. As I said before, when the game starts, its something about Josh (a positive that is so many times negative, because you see all that he is doing) that catches your attention and leaves you watching everything he’s doing rather on offense or defense. Many of these fans only watch two players on the court, that’s Josh and whoever has the ball at the time. Its apparent because they don’t see many of the things on the defense where majority of the players are making more errors than Josh makes on offense.

dap01

January 4th, 2011
7:43 am

This team has peaked with Bibby at the controls. The only hope for improvement is to change the dynamics and let Teague develop.

With Bibby, we have peaked. At least with Teague there is hope for improvement.

Shooting 3’s is not a staple of championship basketball. Defense and speed for our athletic wings are.

Larry Drew needs to start coaching like he talks.

ant banks

January 4th, 2011
7:48 am

blake griffin is what jsmoove was supposed to be

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
7:50 am

Ant banks, Griffin is taller and bigger than Josh. Lets see how much Griffin’s game changes in 6 seasons. As I said the other day, that style of play puts a lot of wear and tear on your body.

KevinM

January 4th, 2011
8:12 am

OB, now did you have to go and ruin my hopes for 2011 this early? Saying that we keep the same PGs next year just burns me up. This duo does not complement each other, we all know that. It is going to take a major overhaul to convince this blog that this can be a contending team.
Has Marvin now had enough of a shot to show you what he is?
How Bibby continues to ward off all the young guns is amazing.

While the Knicks point out they want more PG and C depth, you hear nothing from this group and probably because they are content with the roster more than even we speculate. The harmony of the front office must be painful to deal with on an internal basis. Not that the Knicks are doing anything special for the long haul, they at least are able to know that lots of the league wouldn’t mind playing in ‘historic’ MSG.

Double Zero Eight

January 4th, 2011
9:15 am

The Hawks have been rebuilding for the past 12 years.
They still have not made it to the conference finals.
The current team is not capable of making it to the
conference finals either. They can be entertaining
at times, but are not an elite team. That’s the
“ugly truth”,

niremetal

January 4th, 2011
9:40 am

JJ and Jamal are #1 and #2 on the team in FTAs/gm. And they aren’t exactly getting there all the time. Al is getting to the line less frequently than Marvin. We’re also 27th in the league in ORebs/gm. Methinks there’s a connection there. We’re actually 14th in the league in DRebs/gm, but our ORebs are so terrible that we’re 24th in rebounding overall.

By comparison, we were 6th in the NBA in ORebs last year. Most of the dropoff is traceable to Josh and Al. Josh and Al are averaging 1.5 fewer ORebs/gm than last year; the team as a whole is averaging 2.4 fewer.

Al’s jumper looks great, and Josh’s is much improved. But their fondness for shooting jumpers is having a lot of bad downstream effects.

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
9:44 am

It’s funny how LD emphasized defense all throughout training camp, yet our defense has been horrendous most of the season

It’s also funny how he keeps emphasizing this motion offense, yet there’s no movement

Fundamentals

January 4th, 2011
9:54 am

You got a point there JeJe

Good to hear the Sy update. At least he’s playing. Give him time.

Another Twin? He’d be better than Etan, but not the answer.

The love of the jumpshot and “shotmaking” is what’s killing this team. Play tenacious D, rebound on both ends, attack the basket and all else will come.

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
9:56 am

Jeje, I would love to sit in on a film session with the team to see what is said about previous games.

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:03 am

I bet the Hawks will do what they always do:

Lose against an awful team tonight then win the 2nd of a b2b tomorrow against a tough Utah team

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
10:04 am

Jeje, I say the Hawks win both games! I’m calling it here and now. Atlanta will win both games and go 3-1 on the road trip.

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:05 am

Jeje, I would love to sit in on a film session with the team to see what is said about previous games.

That’s where you want someone like Kobe pointing out things to everyone (if you ever hear Kobe on the bench in in-game microphone segments, you know what I mean).

I bet the film session, LD tries to yell at the guys, but Josh Smith starts crying and everyone else is already reticent, so no one is receptive

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:07 am

Ramon, if we win both these games, we then got IND, MIL, TOR, HOU, SAC.

There’s no reason AT ALL we can’t win all these games.

A bit worried about Indy though because we always destroy them, so hopefully they don’t steal one from us.

We have an 8 game winning streak (including Sunday’s win) within arm’s reach if we take care of biz. Then it gets rough

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:08 am

Also, is Chicago ever going to lose again?

How does a team with Joakim Noah out and no shooting guard win so many damn games? Every time I look, they’ve won.

It’s a matter of time before Boozer gets hurt again

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:11 am

Not entirely sure how the scheduling works, but I’m sure teams like Chicago and NYK, in horrific divisions, can inflate their records since they play their division teams 4 times each, whereas we are in a rough division and get to play some of those teams only 3 times.

Maybe a few extra wins for them which will be huge come April

FIRE SUND

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:12 am

*It seems some teams in your conference you only play 3 times a year. So we get to play some of those teams (like a Cleveland) only 3 times

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
10:16 am

Jeje, believe it or not, Kobe used to be a lot like Josh personality wise. Actually if you look at their attitudes in both 6-7th seasons, you will see they’re eerily close. Kobe actually used to give Lakers’ fans even as much of a headache as Josh does. Kobe (and Garnett) used to bark at teammates. But on defense you can see Josh coaching them guys up on what to do and where they’re supposed to be. I would bet Josh and Joe are the two main players who knows where everyone is supposed to be on defense.

Rev in Tampa

January 4th, 2011
10:20 am

Its time for the Hawks to roll with Teague (Pick & Roll, that is).

Teague loves to shoot that runner close to the rim and all he needs is a step to use his qickness to get there. So why not use he and Al the way other teams pick & roll at will against the Hawks.

This also gives Al the opportunity to roll (after he picks) to his mid-range sweet spot. If Teague gets into the paint he can dish to Josh when the defense collapses around him, pass out to the wings or flip the ball to Al.

Isn’t this what we are looking for in a point guard? And it is a given that our fastbreak offense will improve with Teague in the game, our perimeter defense will improve, and, by extension, our overall defense will greatly improve.

The reason I am writing this is to counter all those who say that Teague needs to stay on the bench because he cannot shoot the ball consistently. Does he need to shoot the ball if he can get into the lane and make the offense run from the inside out?

KevinM

January 4th, 2011
10:24 am

As much as I would like to see ’someone’ make a decision to make this team a legit playoff contender, because you can’t say championship until you’ve at least won a 2nd round playoff game, we could be putting up with T-Wolve GM David Kahn and his backing of their all-to-famous big man Milicic. He is propping him up for great things to come next year…think Sund still sees Marvin in the same light?

KevinM

January 4th, 2011
10:37 am

Rev, your statement “Does he need to shoot the ball if he can get into the lane and make the offense run from the inside out?” is what I have been wishing for for too long now…

This team needs to go inside instead of continued dribble-the-ball til its flat approach. There is more and more standing around on offense as the season progresses.

Our highlights on SportsCenter the rare times we are on there? We are shooting jumpers.

KevinM

January 4th, 2011
10:41 am

Words from Gearon and his partner Levenson are out now on Hawks.com….here are their words of thanks and their hope for our support going forward:

HAPPY NEW YEAR

As we begin 2011, we wanted to take time to express our appreciation for your support of the Hawks and the Thrashers, and to look forward to what the future can have in store for us.
We are fortunate to have had your support during a very unique set of circumstances and we thank you for sticking with our teams through it all.
The Hawks are the only current team in the NBA that has improved five years in a row and we’re excited about how the team has performed under Coach Drew’s new offense. We reshaped the Thrashers over the last year with a new, aggressive, gritty style of hockey, and we are proud of Coach Ramsay and our young team which is receiving recognition throughout the NHL for their success on the ice.
As we look to the second halves of the 2010-2011 NBA and NHL seasons, our goals remain the same as when we bought these teams: to bring Stanley Cups and NBA Championships to the fans in Atlanta. We dream of being a part of the crowd and the city that rallies with pride around the excitement that comes with being a part of the hometown team.
The players say that nothing gets them going more than the roar of the crowd, the crowd that so many of you have been a part of with us. So we cheer. And shout. And roar. Come roar with us. Come be part of the dream.
We hope your holidays were joyous and that you have a great New Year.
Bruce and Michael

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
10:59 am

LOL @ those comments by ASG.

We’ve improved 5 years in a row…Boo-hoo.

What have we done in the playoffs?

Gone to two 7 game series against far inferior teams and been embarrassed in 8 2nd round games.

LET’S KEEP THE CORE! IT’S REALLY WORKING! THE TEAM LOOKS GREAT THIS YEAR! WE’VE ONLY THROWN AWAY ABOUT 8 GAMES!

FIRE SUND

FIRE ASG

Mike is back

January 4th, 2011
11:03 am

Drmaryb, what up Dawg…I hear ya…some cats can seriously push the envelope with their extraordinary trade proposals…can’t say I really blame them THOUGH…when all you hear from Sund and ASG group is…WE LIKE OUR CORE…it’s driving my fellow bloggers…INSANE…Heck, I’m starting slip too!!!!LOL

The trade deadline may finally bear us some fruit… I think something is in the mix…DANG…How many times have I said THAT…O well…I digress…at lease we know Ole Je Je…is perfectly sane…Right!!heh heh

Anyway…Go LD…Go Josh…Go Teague…And Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kwooden1

January 4th, 2011
11:03 am

JoJo, just watched part of Papa’s game last night and part of the last game. (NBA.com) His shot doesn’t look great and he was a turnover machine last night. But overall his defense is solid and his ball handling doesn’t look that bad. He’s actually a lot faster than I could tell from the Summer league games, he’s just not a high flyer. From the two games I’ve seen the D-League is definitely more competative than the Summer League, so I think this will be a very good experience for him. He’s not a guy that can help the team this year, but if he can really improve he would be a very unique PG if that’s where they hope to use him.

Mike is back

January 4th, 2011
11:21 am

Rev in Tampa, definitely agree with your 10:20 am post…I always envision Teague as a good pick & roll guy too…I don’t want him taking a bunch of jumps shots…I want him penetrating and dishing the rock…I think Teague could be a double digit assist guy with his quickness and speed.

Before someone tees off on me…I’m not implying Teague’s game is polished enough…to give you 10 plus dimes at this point in his career…However, I do believe the talent and potential is there…our problems is we have too many vets…that duplicate each other…that’s not the youngster fault.

Good Stuff Rev…Peace Out!!!

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
12:01 pm

Have LD or Woody in past years made suggestions to Sund on changes needed?

I didn’t feel like the Ja-Craw trade was NEEDED. It was just a good trade in that we got rid of 2 scrubs for a player better than Flip Murray.

Has LD gone to Sund/ASG and told them our PGs blow?
Probably not since the guy is in love with Bibby (and Mo Evans too)

WE NEED A PG

O'Brien

January 4th, 2011
12:20 pm

How many years has Rondo been in the league? And his jump shot is still a huge weakness (teams will leave him open all the time).

Tony Parker’s first few years, he was forbidden from taking 3’s, because his shot was bad. His coach wanted him getting in the paint.

We have been spoiled by Bibby and his jump shots, but that is not all there is to being a good PG. Teague can still contribute even if he doesnt have a good jumper.

He is not there yet, but if his defense ever catches up with his speed, watch out. And he has the potential to be a good assist guy too. Give the guy some time…

O'Brien

January 4th, 2011
12:23 pm

Mike is Back,

It looks like we are on the same page as far as Teague is concerned.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2011
12:28 pm

“The Hawks are the only current team in the NBA that has improved five years in a row and we’re excited about how the team has performed under Coach Drew’s new offense.” ASG .

What the ASG is missing, is that we still struggle to score points in the fourth quarter against good teams.

Also, last year we won 53 games. Does anyone think this Hawks team will win 54 or more? Because if not, then it is not an improvement (based on their way of looking at it).

And if LD does not win a game or two in the second round, I think he will be on the hot seat next year.

And if he goes, maybe the ASG will give the job to Ty Hill next…

JeJe

January 4th, 2011
12:31 pm

“And if LD does not win a game or two in the second round, I think he will be on the hot seat next year.”

What difference would it make if he’s on the hot seat or not?

He is on a 2 year contract and is making minimum wage. ASG would not pay any other coach worth a damn to come here

Mike is back

January 4th, 2011
12:35 pm

OB, yes we are…my thing is…I’m not saying play Teague because he’s our only option…I’m saying play dude…because he has the talent and skill to adequately fill in at that position…and we still have Bibby to run the team for a another season…just him ready or get somebody ready now!!!

Mike is back

January 4th, 2011
12:40 pm

Niremetal, I agree with that assessment…just seems like Josh is the one that shoulders most of the blame on the blog.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2011
12:55 pm

JeJe,

ASG would probably promote one of LD’s assistants.

“The players say that nothing gets them going more than the roar of the crowd, the crowd that so many of you have been a part of with us. So we cheer. And shout. And roar. Come roar with us.” ASG .

That’s not what JJ said. He said he doesn’t care if we show up. Ain’t that right, Section 303?

JoJo the Godfather

January 4th, 2011
12:56 pm

In my opinion, this team needs to try real hard to get its hands on Devin Harris of the Nets…Maybe try a deal of Bibby, Jamal & a 1st round pick for Harris, Vujacic & Damion James…Maybe that gives NJ more to work with in a Melo trade.

I just like the idea of Harris, with Teague as his sub, pushing the tempo, and getting in to the lane for assists/fouls/points…Since Harris left Dallas, he has been asked to be THE MAN in NJ…Here, all he has to do is push the tempo and set up Joe/Josh/Al/Marvin…His contract is reasonable (3 yrs $27M)…He’s just 27…and he gets to the foul line more than 6 times a games (our leader is Joe at 4.5 per game).

Ramon

January 4th, 2011
1:02 pm

Jojo, that would be a good deal, and a smart deal. And James could be viewed as our ‘1st round pick’ for next year.

L-QUE

January 4th, 2011
1:27 pm

Long ago before this blog ,fast Eddie Johnson& Ahmand Hill lead Atlanta to the edge of a championship but Boston packed inside ,shut off EJ to force Hill to shoot jumpers, but hill was a great defender and assist man WITH NO JUMPSHOT he couldnt hit the j in the clutch, Atlanta was turned back. Otis Nixon tried to bunt when a fly ball wins the series, great at some things but fall short on others,INCOMPLETE players is something you have to deal with in sports, but we must be able to utilize what gifts they bring. thats LD job he wanted it,Teague is not ready with no time to develop for LD, he wants to keep his job ,MLB-NFL-NHA-NBA,win or go home the first to blame is always the coach but he didnt draft the players and is afraid to waste time trying to develop the ones he did.Alanta is a SCORING POINTand BENCH SCORING away from a solid team ,JOE JOSH MARVIN will help take this further than AL TEAGUE JC1 no doubt, but this is the team and I take the bitter with the sweet

Rev in Tampa

January 4th, 2011
2:04 pm

L-QUE,

The Hawks are a jumpshot only team right now. It would be great if a team simply packed it in the paint and let them shoot. But we don’t have enough of an inside game to keep teams in the paint. A good inside game opens up the outside game.

It is PAINFULLY obvious that the Hawks currently constructed and currently utilized have reached their ceiling. I believe a mid-course correction is necessary. What is so frustrating is that I believe only a tweak is needed rather than a massive overhaul. So why can’t we at least see how Teague willl do for a couple of games with the starting unit?

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2011
2:05 pm

OBRIEN-As a PG, when Teague enters the gm, his primary offensive responsibilities are to get the ball across half court, call the plays, position everyone, initiate the OFF, create assists, easy scoring opportunities for others, and like you said, know when to to score, dish, attack etc. As a SG, Jordon Crawford’s primary offensive responsibilities are limited to creating HIS OFF, easy scoring opportunities for HIMSELF, and scoring.

Teague has a lot more on his plate to digest than Jordan, and if Jordan is in the gm, it’s a safe bet that neither JJ nor Jamal will be one the court. That eliminates him having to deal with two of the 3 dominant on court personalities. He’s responsibile primarily for himself only, while Teague has to put the responsibility for everyone else first.

Teague, like Bibby, had a solid training camp and early preseason, until his injury. Teague entered the season behind everyone else and had to play catchup. At this point, he’s caught up and should be given the same opportunity LDrew claimed he would receive before the season started. That’s especially important when we consider how Bibby is slowing down, and will likely continue to do so as the season progresses.

We can’t continue recognizing, and making observations and comments about, the serious DEF problems we have with our perimeter DEF, while at the same time pretending not to know the primary cause of those problems. Bibby’s ability to stick the 3 doesn’t address the ease in which he allows players to penetrate and break down our DEF. This has been a consistent problem every since his arrival, and it will only get worse.

Why is it LDrew, and so many of our fans, are perfectly willing to suffer through, to the point of using gimmicks, Bibby’s documented liabilities and limitations? But when it comes to the possibility of Teague running the team, there’s this refusal to consider the immediate and future advantages he can bring to the team.

When it comes to Teague, there’s this totally focus on the most trivial of his perceived shortcomings. How in the hell can we expect Teague to gain the individual confidence some seem to think he lacks, the confidence of his teammates, and learn how to run a team, when the HC refuses to do anything that demonstrates he has confidence in him. So far, LDrews approach has demonstrated the opposite.

I guess until LDrew decides to stop giving Teague his version of the WOODY TREATMENT, we’ll continue beating a dead horse.

slimjr

January 4th, 2011
2:47 pm

ASG does not believe the Hawks have improved..It’s a brain washing sales tip to keep the fans interested and paying to see this wanna be pretender crap..The Hawks have been destroyed 2 years in a row and this year will be worse because they will be dismantled by Chicago in the first round.It’s more entertaining playing and watching some real ballers down at the run and shoot.I cant even sit down and watch a full Hawks game on the flat screen any more.Love ya NBA TV…..

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2011
2:47 pm

LQUE-If you believe LDrews primary concern is keeping his job, then explain why he would be stupid enough to take the same approach towards Bibby and Teague that Woodson took, which led to him being let go. It’s no secret that Bibby and JJ are close, both on and off the court. It all might boil down to a matter of JJ wanting Bibby next to him because his OFF limitations, and willingness to defer, allows JJ to control the ball and the OFF.

With Teague, JJ might not have as much of the freedom and control he covets. I do know that during the limited mins Teague is in the gm, he tends to maintain control of the ball and the OFF, and doesn’t defer nearly as much as Bibby does.

I want everyone to pay close attention to what Bibby does in the 1st quarterof our next gm. See how often he allows JJ or Jamal to bring the ball across half court. Also, notice how often he brings it across half court and then gives it up to JJ or Jamal above the 3pt line. THAT’S NOT INITIATING THE OFF, THAT’S ALLOWING SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT.

If Teague gets into the gm, notice how often he brings it across half court, maintains control of the ball, calls the play, positions everyone, and then initiates the OFF. I’m not saying Teague does this on every possession, but he certainly does it the majority of the time. Anyone that thinks Bibby is in complete control and running the OFF it is in complete denial.

We can manage to get by and do well, DURING THE REGULAR SEASON, with Bibby as our starting PG, but we will pay dearly DURING THE PLAYOFFS.

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2011
2:58 pm

REV IN TAMPA-AMEN TO THAT!

LQUE-The same NO OUTSIDE SHOT LABEL was placed on PG’s like RRhondo, TParker, Magic Johnson, CPaul, DRivers, JKidd, DWilliams and SNash early in their careers. If all you’re interested in is looking for excuses, there are plenty to be found. I’m more interested in looking for solutions.

Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 107, Clippers 98

258 comments Add your comment

We’ve Moved!

About Atlanta Hawks

Search this blog

Recent Posts

Archives

More from the AJC

Local sports videos

Blogroll

Twitter and Facebook

All AJC blogs »

Tell us what you think about the site

Subscribe »

Customer Care »

AJC Services

Sections

Other Editions

Guides

Affiliates

Advertising

AJC Sites

Special Reports

Blogs

Opinion

Blogs

Topics

Features

Blogs

Topics

Features

Topics

Features

Features

Blogs

Topics

Features

Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 107, Clippers 98

258 comments Add your comment

We’ve Moved!

About Atlanta Hawks

Search this blog

Recent Posts

Archives

More from the AJC

Local sports videos

Blogroll

Twitter and Facebook

All AJC blogs »

Tell us what you think about the site

Subscribe »

Customer Care »

AJC Services

Sections

Other Editions

Guides

Affiliates

Advertising

AJC Sites