Atlanta Hawks vs. Warriors: Marvin still not feeling bench role

L.D. is using his normal lineup tonight so Marvin is back among the starters. He looked pretty good in his two most recent games coming off the bench. He played fewer minutes than his average but he got up 17 shots in 50 minutes. I think the Hawks benefited from him playing on the second unit.

None of that changes Marvin’s preference to start.

“I’ve played what, two games off the bench?” he said. “I’ve played how many starting? Now start me for 300 games and see how I play.”

Truth is Marvin has played well the last couple weeks as both a starter and reserve. But L.D. notes that he can get Marvin more involved when he’s on the floor with the reserves.

“When he comes of the bench, it allows him to be more of a guy I can go to a little bit more as far as play sets that are called,” L.D. said. “When he’s in the starting lineup with Joe, Mike Smoove and Al he can be a first option at times, he can be a fourth option at times. When he is in there with the reserves, he is going to be either one or two.

“To me, he’s adapted well in coming off the bench when I’ve gone with my big lineup. He actually looks more comfortable. I think he knows in that second unit he will get more touches, I am able to run more plays directly for him. And most of the time he will be playing against their reserves.”

All of those things may be true but, again, Marvin has always been a starter and wants to keep it that way. Not that he takes it personally when he’s not.

“I love L.D. He’s been nothing but good to me,” Marvin said. “I’m not upset at him about anything and I don’t think he’s upset at me. It’s just the choice he made and I’ve got to live with it. It doesn’t make me mad at him or mad at my team or anything like that.”

Pick up the pace?

The Warriors are among the fastest-paced teams in the league. The Hawks still are among the slowest.

L.D. doesn’t like it when the Hawks play too fast on the road but he doesn’t mind picking up the pace at Philips.

“We definitely want to control the pace but we don’t want to get away from what we do, especially at home,” he said. “We want to get up and down, we want to run. We don’t want to get into a quick shoot contest with them. That’s kind of what they want.”

Atlanta’s pace at home is 92 possessions per game, still slow.

It’s pretty obvious why Drew is using the regular lineup against the Warriors, who are small to begin with and now are without Andris Biedrins (ankle) and Dan Gadzuric (groin).

“They don’t have the big forces inside,” Drew said. “They’ve got some very good centers, guys that can play the position very well but not a situation where we have to look to come and double team.”

What the Warriors have are swift backcourt partners Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis. The Hawks have J.J.. Something’s got to give.

“We do have Joe against the smaller guards. We are definitely going to try and exploit that,” L.D. said. “On the other end they have the advantage of smaller guards having the speed and the quickness. Maybe Joe doesn’t have the speed and the quickness to stay with them. We try to combat that on the other end.”

Curry is working his way back from an ankle injury and played 29 minutes against Portland on Saturday and 28 against Philly on Monday. Ellis is third in the league in scoring and 10th in usage rate.

“Very, very explosive,” L.D. said. “I’ve always liked him. He’s a guy that has a knack for scoring. He’s really explosive so have to do a good job on him collectively. He’s too good, too explosive and he gets too many touches. It has to be a team effort. We have to make sure we load up on him in transition. We have to contest all of his shots but more importantly we have got to keep him out of the paint. It’s going to take all five guys to do that.”

Michael Cunningham

244 comments Add your comment

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:33 pm

I used to coach college B’ball. Being a 6th man is just like starting. Look at Jamal. It’s just a mindset thing. Once a player get’s over that, starting or coming off the bench is really irrelevant.

Would you rather start, and play 12 mpg, or come off the bench and play 30?

Kevin McHale was a 6th man….

rusty

December 29th, 2010
10:34 pm

Stevew you sure are right that sund is one stupid man & to think we are stuck with him & ld

rusty

December 29th, 2010
10:36 pm

Ld. I wish that you would start coaching a lot smarter so I could respect you again & this team could play at a higher level which they deserve

J.J.M

December 29th, 2010
10:36 pm

lol why wouldnt I want to be black…*sighs* people on this blog I tell you

It was not a bad pick

December 29th, 2010
10:37 pm

Najeh Davenpoop

Josh is not better than Marvin..josh is to small to be a starting pf on a championship team..he cannot shoot well enough to play the sf..thats why o team has offered the Hawks anything for Josh, He is just a hometown hero that can finish on the break..his basketball iq is terrible….good passer, average rebounder, Against teams with huge front lines, Josh is no where to be found…and unlike Marvin, Josh gets plenty shots

slimjr

December 29th, 2010
10:37 pm

Rick Sund= Billy Knight (Worst GM in Hawks History)

The Hawks will get dismantled come playoff time..Come on JJ keep hoisting them up. You got to help the 3 stooges win games!!

It was not a bad pick

December 29th, 2010
10:39 pm

Grandad

I agree, I wonder when will the Hawks realize that Joe is not a star

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:42 pm

Astro – I would love to have both. I think Lou and Teague could be a great young combination for years to come. But neither one is a natural PG. I get what your saying. In the Motion O however, you don’t need a natural point, just quick drivers with good jumpers who can pass and who can play D. And both Lou and Teague can do that.

Grandad

December 29th, 2010
10:43 pm

R frm C P
“Who gives a rats ass if Marvin does not want to come off the bench”
-edited & uncensored-
My sentiments exactly.
Sorry for the translation…I wanted to make sure everyone understood.

Rod from College Park

December 29th, 2010
10:44 pm

It was not a bad pick,

I was about to respond to you concerning my lady, but then I read your last post, and I realized the you have to be related to Marvin. Please name me one thing Marvin does better than Josh besides free throw shooting, shooting the 3, turning invisible and walking like something is bothering him (no homo).

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:45 pm

My biggest problems with Josh:

He’s not clutch in big games. Look at the Celtics. Look at our 2nd round beat downs.

He whines way to much. And that’s just a personal issue with me. I was taught never, ever to whine. And when I Coached, that’s what I taught our players.

But I like Smoove.

And whoever says JJ is not a Star is an idiot. 3rd team All NBA. 4 straight All star games. Get real.

Grandad

December 29th, 2010
10:46 pm

It was not a bad pick

Too much invested, even before the “Max”, to ever admit.
Even if they realized.

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:46 pm

JJ is not a Super Star. But he is a Star. He and Al are our best players hands down, with Josh a close 3rd. Jamal is a nice piece to.

drmaryb (*_*)

December 29th, 2010
10:46 pm

Preferred Answer!

Astro Joe, I would have preferred Marvin say, “I am willing to do whatever it takes to help my team win. I am not a selfish player by nature as you can see, so if I play 5 mins per night and it helps my team win a Championship? I’m all in.”

Now, if it were any other player, I would expect the same answer.
Now, Astro, keep in mind that a HC will not ask a star caliber or starter to come off the bench and replace him with a less valuable player.

For example, on this team, there is no reason for Josh to come off the bench for anybody down bench row! Josh is a 5 tool, energy player who handles his business on both ends and has improved each year in the league. When Josh got here, he couldn’t dribble worth a damn, so, he flew to Houston and worked with Calvin Murphy at his own expense. The following year he returned to work with Hakeem to improve his low post game and so forth!

Josh stuffs the stat sheet better than Kirilenko in Utah does and that was his role model for how he wanted to play his game. Kirilenko got crazy money and has disappeared with injury and whatever. If Coach asked Josh to come off the bench for Marvin, he would be unemployed by the end of the business day.

Sorry for the long answer, but, I loved your question.

How you doing baby?

O'Brien

December 29th, 2010
10:48 pm

it was not a bad pick,

If Rick Sund made it known that he was trading Josh, I think there would be numerous calls from teams making a competitive offer.

If Rick Sund made it known that he was trading Marvin, I dont think Rick would receive any good offers.

SteveW,

Over the off season, I suggested signing TMac for 2 reasons. 1) Marketing. Dude has a lot of fans in the league (and in China). 2) He is a former scoring champ with something to prove. Take a flyer on him.

We could have traded Jamal, signed Damien, and let Mo, JC2, TMac and Damien handle the backup SGs and backup SF positions.

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:50 pm

“It was not a bad pick” – You are correct about Josh. He is a “tweener”. To small to be a 4 on the low block, but not quite the skill set for a 3. True. But he’s a great defender, and an extremely good passer when he wants to be.

1 other thing I don’t like about Smoove. He lets his emotions take him out of games. Gotta mature past that. Glad he’s working with Cavin though. Hope he keeps it up.

JeJe

December 29th, 2010
10:50 pm

FIRE RICK SUND. I SAW HIM BEFORE THE GAME CLOWNING AROUND.

WINS LIKE THIS MAKE HIM BELIEVE WE’RE ACTUALLY AN ELITE TEAM

AND WHO IS THAT GOOFY LOOKING GUY WHO ALWAYS SITS A SEAT OR 2 TO THE RIGHT OF SMOOVE’S DAD?

FIRE SUND

KevinM

December 29th, 2010
10:50 pm

Marvin’s comments are sad; he has no interest in doing what’s best for the rotation or the team. Boy, wouldn’t it be nice to hear Marvin ask for a trade?

The most dispised Hawk on the current roster: #24…

Perhaps we’re showcasing Bibby for a trade, haha! Having a career shooting year. He must have worked out this offseason huh?

Good win tonight despite how ugly it was. You have to win these kinds of games.

JeJe

December 29th, 2010
10:51 pm

SOME GUY CAME UP TO MY TABLE AT THE CNN CENTER BEFORE THE GAME AND TOLD ME MARVIN WOULD AVERAGE 20 PPG WITH A REAL PG.

WAS THAT YOU, “IT WAS NOT A BAD PICK?”

KevinM

December 29th, 2010
10:52 pm

Sund, if you are going to do something…2 words…

DeAndre Jordan…I like his potential. He’s starting to get minutes, so Sund may have waited too long.

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:53 pm

Oh well – The Heat took control in the 4th quarter. Up by 10 with 2+ minutes left. Wade has taken control of his team lately. 43 pts tonight. 2nd straight 40 pt. night, on back to back games.

JJ is no DWade. But he is a Star. Just not a SuperStar like Wade

JeJe

December 29th, 2010
10:54 pm

LOL KEITH SMART MOTIONED FOR ACIE LAW TO GO INTO THE GAME, ACIE STARTS TO RUN TO SCORERS TABLE, THEN SMART LETS HIM KNOW HE MEANT MONTA AND ACIE GOES BACK TO BENCH

FIRE SUND

JeJe

December 29th, 2010
10:54 pm

LOL KEITH SMART MOTIONED FOR ACIE LAW TO GO INTO THE GAME, ACIE STARTS TO RUN TO SCORERS TABLE, THEN SMART LETS HIM KNOW HE MEANT MONTA AND ACIE GOES BACK TO BENCH

FIRE SUND.

JeJe

December 29th, 2010
10:55 pm

GREAT GAME MARVIN. 6 AND 3 IN 27 MINUTES (EVEN IF U GOT HURT AFTER)

YEAH U SURE DESERVE TO START

Astro Joe

December 29th, 2010
10:55 pm

Y’all do know that Josh makes close to twice as much as Marvin right? So the market has already declared their relative value against each other.

Mary, MC asked and I have no problem with his answer. Dude takes the 6th most shots on the team and is one of the few who defends regardless of his shot attempts… I don’t think that he has to prove himself as a worthy teammate. He stated his preference becayuse he was asked. I recall Bibby making a similar statement a few months ago when there was premature speculation about Teague’s role on the team.

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:55 pm

KevinM – I agree with that. Give them Collins and his no trade clause and Etan, and even throw in a 2nd pick or 2. Being the Clips’, they might take it!

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
10:57 pm

JeJe – He was hurt in the 3rd quarter. Jamal stunk up the place worse on 2-10 shooting.

It was not a bad pick

December 29th, 2010
11:01 pm

O’Brien

If the hawks put josh on the block, No one would give the hawks nothing for a small pf, he wants to shoot that jumper so much, because he konws he cannot do any damage inside against good teams with big front lines, he is too small..The hawks know that Josh and Al play the same position..you would get more for Marvin because of potential…No one really knows what Marvin can really do if given the oppurtunity..

Rod from College Park
Marvin shoots 20 times better than Josh..Other than Josh blocking a few shots, marvin is a better on the ball defender than Josh, if Drew would consistanly called plays for Marvin, he would be a better scorer than Josh..Josh has no basketball iq.. Seriously, Josh is ok, but he has held the hawks back for 3 years due to bad shot selection..he would make a diffrence as a 6th man…

Astro Joe

December 29th, 2010
11:01 pm

If you read Marvin’s actual quotes (and not MC’s side commentaries), I don’t see the problem. He prefers to start (what starter would say otherwise), he isn’t upset with his coach and he doesn’t think a 2 game sample matches up with a 300 game sample. Wow, really inflammatory comments, huh?

SteveW

December 29th, 2010
11:03 pm

Well Ty Lawson was taken 18th when we got Teague 19th in the draft. And he’s playing extremely well at Point for the Nuggets.

If the Nuggets trade Carmelo and go into rebuilding mode, how about Jamal and the Trade exception for Billups?

rusty

December 29th, 2010
11:09 pm

stevew if jj is really a star i would like to see his shooting % improve,stop taking bad shots ,stop eating up the cloak,start running a fast break (which he never does),start driving hard to the basket. every body knows he really gets his assists by passing the ball to someone on the perimeter with sec on the shot cloak. he is really worth 50 m for 6 yr

JeJe

December 29th, 2010
11:09 pm

LOL Marvin has done nothing 90 % of his career. It’d take me 2 hours to recite game by game his pathetic performances for his franchise. His career has been a complete failure and financial fraud for this team, given the tremendous dollar sum he has stolen from this team. he should be thankful he has been chosen to start for this pathetic front office’s coaching staff.

Jamal didn’t really do much out there without the ball.

Again this brings up the point (no pun intended): where the hell was Teague in the first half? Why is Jamal being tentative again?

WHERE IS DAMIEN WILKINS?

WE NEED DAMIEN GUARDING LEBRON AND OTHER BIGTIME PLAYERS. DORELL WRIGHT HAD 30 FREAKING POINTS TONIGHT. HOW THE HELL DOES DAMIEN NOT GET MINUTES?

IT PISSES ME OFF WHEN A PLAYER SHOTS DOWN OTHER TEAM’S SUPERSTARS (DAMIEN SHUTTING DOWN LBJ OR P.PIERCE) AND THEN NOT PLAYING AGAIN.

WATCH US PLAY THESE 2 TEAMS AND DAMIEN WILL GET A DNP-CD OR 5 MINUTES

LET DAMIEN PLAY DAMNIT

Najeh Davenpoop

December 29th, 2010
11:10 pm

“Please name me one thing Marvin does better than Josh besides free throw shooting, shooting the 3, turning invisible and walking like something is bothering him (no homo).”

You’re being awfully generous, Rod. Smoove’s 3 point percentage is 7 points higher than Marvin’s this year.

Marvin has a quicker release on his shot, and he shoots free throws better. That’s ALL he does better than Smoove. Comparing the two is quite frankly idiotic.

drmaryb (*_*)

December 29th, 2010
11:13 pm

Green Eggs & Ham!

NorthCyde said this:

” I said from the beginning of the season that I wouldn’t put most of the blame on Drew, because it’s management that essentially brought back the same team for him to work with.

It’s not like Sund is rushing out to upgrade the roster. So if you start to see more and more “Woody tendencies” from. Drew, that may be the reason.”
________________________________

If you are the chef and someone else is buying the groceries, (see Bill Parcells rant), How in the world can you grill a steak and bake a loaded potato when the GM came home with Green Eggs and Ham?

Please tell me: Where is the Logic? (in Ken S. Voice). Where is the damned Logic? Larry Drew ’s Hawks are the EXACT same Hawks Mr. Woodson coached.
The same players, same skill sets, same personalities and the same flaws!

If you Mother bought a Mercedes Benz when you were 5 years old and kept that car in mint condition, then 11 years later you inherit that same car to drive to school? Wouldn’t you get the same vehicle performance she got? Or, will that car go from 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds all of a sudden. I purport – Hell No!
A 16 year old Mercedes will NEVER be a 16 year old Porsche 944 Carrera!

NorthCyde, these kids are dumb as hell, if they think The Hawks will suddenly become The Miami Heat because we changed coaches. If you put on Fresh Jeans and got on Dirty Draws? You Draws are still gonna be Dirty!
Oh Oh! Bacon Strips and Skid Marks, we need some bleach now!

Go Figure!

rusty

December 29th, 2010
11:18 pm

Je Je lets just face it we can cry & scream all we want ld is going to give mb big minutes & not play teague. he will go with mo & let wilkins sit (maybe he dont like dominque. he is going to play his buddy mo regardless of what makes sense.he will never give jc2 a chance of course we all know he is only an 18th pick.& mo is a lot better. maybe he is pissed off you & is trying to teach you who is in charge

Ryan

December 29th, 2010
11:20 pm

I like Marvins attitude 10 times better. I say trade Josh for a Center move Al to foward or trade josh and bibby for a point guard and start collins.

Mz. Hawkdafied/Hood Chick

December 29th, 2010
11:24 pm

“the Hawks will be put out the playoffs very early this year..time for me to put these seats on stub hub…”-It was not a bad pick

put them on stub hub, I’ll buy some of them. good. where they at? specifics please! Got a lot of good games coming up in March.

drmaryb (*_*)

December 29th, 2010
11:48 pm

It was a horrible Pick!

Hind sight is 20/20. We passed on CP3, DWILL and Lord knows who else to draft Marvin Williams, (who rode the Bench in College) I guess his College Coach knew what it took the Hawks 6 years to figure out!

Marvin’s Mother said this:

“No one really knows what Marvin can really do if given the oppurtunity..”
____________________________

Well, Mamma Williams – Your Meal Ticket for a Son had 6 Years to show his game! He has the game only a Mother could Love! And, if he is playing better this year? IT’s ABOUT DAMN TIME & Three Play Offs too damned late!

I would personally drive his big azz to Hartsfield International Airport!
I don’t trust Marvin, if he was drafted by the Lakers? His azz would have been traded 6 times by now. Them Lakers are serious about winning on the daily and they don’t burp, change diapers and play pattie – cakes with grown azz millionaires! That’s why they GOT 5 Damned Rings minus the one Ron Artest auctioned off! Winning is a mentality – It’s not we’ll give him 6 years to find his azz nor his game! Marvin’s azz so big … I can’t tell if he is coming or going?

prison mike

December 29th, 2010
11:51 pm

Dark Wing Duck or Daffy Duck, what is it going to be these days marv?????

drmaryb (*_*)

December 30th, 2010
12:06 am

Rusty got diarrhea of the mouth again! This guy just types because he has a keyboard. Rusty said this:

“.he will never give jc2 a chance of course we all know he is only an 18th pick.”
_____________________________

Speak for yourself, because WE don’t know that! Correct me if I’m wrong (too lazy to look it up) But, wasn’t Jordan the 27th pick made by The Nets in exchange for our 24th pick Damien James?

rusty! Just stop it man! Calm down and get your facts straight before popping the gums! Anyways, how are you doing man? Where have you been hiding?

-smiles-

drmaryb (*_*)

December 30th, 2010
12:20 am

Fire Ryan!
Because he sad this:

“I like Marvins attitude 10 times better. I say trade Josh for a Center move Al to foward or trade josh and bibby for a point guard and start collins.”
__________________________

And we thought Sund sucks?

Did The Bulls like Rodman’s attitude? No! They liked his rebounding!
Did The Lakers like Artest’s attitude? No! They liked his defense!

I don’t even care if The Hawks don’t like each other, I never like many of my co-workers at GE Capital the seven years I was there balling either. But, I loved my job and the paychecks was very nice (6 Figures). As a professional, you show up every day, do your job and don’t punch your Boss.

These guys are paid to play and win! Just Win Baby! Be a Pro!

rusty

December 30th, 2010
12:22 am

Drmaryb the point I am trying to make is that we are wasting the pick of a first round draft pick. Jc2 to me is a great draft pick. He handles the ball well,is every quick,shoots well inside & outside & has great heart but our great coach will not give him a chance as he rather play mo. What a waste, we are to do the same think to him as we did to jt. Our teams play there high draft picks

rusty

December 30th, 2010
12:25 am

I meant we are wasting our high choices. I am typing on an iPad,it can be strange

slimjr

December 30th, 2010
2:12 pm

it was a bad pick.
Billy Knight the self proclaimed “so called basketball expert” passed up 2 future HOF’ers (CP3 and DWILL) for this Duck/Buster!! He would have been better off drafting Candice Parker.This team will be destroyed in the playoffs!
Rick Sund=Billy Knight(worst GM in Hawks history)