Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 103, Warriors 93
Zaza got in on the frontcourt mauling (Hyosub Shin, hshin@ajc.com)
- At Milwaukee the Hawks shut down one of the league’s slowest-paced and least efficient offensive teams while getting key baskets to hold them off. This time the Hawks shredded one of the league’s least efficient defensive teams and got key stops against a faced-pace opponent to hold them off.
- There’s something to be said for the Hawks handling their business in this way, particularly since they executed their offensive plan so efficiently: 44 of 86 field goals (with 36 attempts in the paint for 44 points) and 31 assists.
- “At times we revert back to isolations, but that’s fine because we have some good isolation players,” L.D. said. “For the most part we are doing what we want to do.”
- The Hawks took a look at Golden State’s thin frontcourt (no Biedrins or Gadzuric) and decided to exploit it. When the Warriors started overplaying Al and Smoove (and Joe when he was in the post) the Hawks regularly swung the ball around until the open man took an unrushed shot.
- “The game plan was just to play inside out,” Al said. “I think when we do that we usually have a lot of success. Josh is unselfish and I’m unselfish. When there’s a double team, we usually kick it out to the guards. That’s how we got going as a team, then later that opened up everything else.”
- It never felt like the Hawks were going to lose but it could have been a blowout if not for their bumbling in transition for turnovers. The Hawks wanted to run smart, and they did, but they were awful at finishing. Even the normally reliable Al threw a couple away.
- “We had some careless turnovers on the break, [including] myself,” he said. “I try not to do that. I want to look back and see where I can improve in that area. We could have had a lot more opportunities on the fast break.”
- The Warriors were even more careless with the ball. I lost count of their unforced errors. The weird thing was how eventually they seemed to just kind of shrug their shoulders as if they expect such things to happen. So what’s the point of being upset?
- Golden State had better success working for open shots in the halfcourt. Not surprisingly, Stephen Curry was able to dance into Atlanta’s interior defense even though he’s just three games into his return from a balky ankle.
- Curry and Monta Ellis just didn’t shoot nearly well enough to overcome Golden State’s suspect D and 18 turnovers (for 20 Atlanta points). J.J. constantly backed down Ellis, who tired to hold his ground but just couldn’t. “Some nights he’s just not going to have it,” Golden State coach Keith Smart said. “Guarding bigger guys will take some of his energy on nights like this.”
- J.J. passed Lenny Wilkens for 10th on the franchise scoring list.
- “I’m a big fan of Lenny,” he said. “It’s an honor and a privilege. It says a lot not just about me, but about this team and organization and where we’ve come to where we are now. We are just trying to do big things. We’ve got so much potential in this locker room; we just have to stay confident and believe, and the sky’s the limit.”
- J.J. had 16 points on 14 shots and also eight assists. “When I see him with eight assists, it means he is playing the right way,” Drew said.
- J.J. said he still can’t fully extend his right elbow and put his health at 90 percent. When you shoot the ball you’ve got to pop your elbow and I can’t quite do that,” he said. “When I’m on the court, I don’t really think about it. As long as we win, that’s all that matters.”
- It looks like Josh Powell is out and Zaza is in (though such things are always subject to change with L.D.). Maybe that’s why Zaza looked so spry while putting up 11 points, seven rebounds and smothering David Lee.
- Jamal was just 2 for 10 from the floor but had six assists against one turnover. He passed up some pretty good looks to get teammates better shots. At least he will do that when his offense isn’t working.
- Fast-paced game, pick-and-roll-a-rama and Teague played just three minutes. I guess that’s just how it’s going to be for him.
- Marvin suffered a lower back bruise when he fell to the floor in the third quarter. “I got up quick but when I tried to walk back to the bench it locked up on me,” he said. “I will see how it feels tomorrow.”
Michael Cunningham
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201 comments Add your comment
J from the A
December 29th, 2010
11:43 pm
Two firsts in one day?!
rusty
December 29th, 2010
11:45 pm
Thank god for al& Josh,no for ld
JeJe
December 29th, 2010
11:45 pm
Marvin with Back Bruise. LOL! You can’t tell if his back is injured or not the way he walks.
What will be his January injury? Broken thumbnail + out for 7 weeks? GTFOH
No. GTFOOT (Get The…Off our team)
J from the A
December 29th, 2010
11:45 pm
Yes!
On topic: Good analysis, MC. Good game, Hawks!
Now let’s see if the Hawks can execute for 48 minutes against some of the higher-caliber opponents, starting with OKC Friday night would be nice.
JeJe
December 29th, 2010
11:47 pm
From previous blog….Rod from CP & Najeh:
“Please name me one thing Marvin does better than Josh besides free throw shooting, shooting the 3, turning invisible and walking like something is bothering him (no homo).”
You’re being awfully generous, Rod. Smoove’s 3 point percentage is 7 points higher than Marvin’s this year.
Marvin has a quicker release on his shot, and he shoots free throws better. That’s ALL he does better than Smoove. Comparing the two is quite frankly idiotic.”
—-
LOL!!!!!!
Guy had 6 and 3 against freaking GOLDEN STATE.
Dorell Wright had 32 points, most of which Marvin is responsible for. HMM MAYBE WRIGHT LIKES TO SHOOT 3S AND YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY GUARD HIM?
LOL @ THESE RANDOM INJURIES MARVIN KEEPS GETTING. OF COURSE YOU’LL GET HURT WHEN YOU DON’T WORK OUT DURING THE SUMMER AND SIT ON THE COUCH WATCHING SPONGEBOB IN YOUR UNDERWEAR
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
12:29 am
Fire Ryan!
Because he sad this:
“I like Marvins attitude 10 times better. I say trade Josh for a Center move Al to foward or trade josh and bibby for a point guard and start collins.”
__________________________
And we thought Sund sucks?
Did The Bulls like Rodman’s attitude? No! They liked his rebounding!
Did The Lakers like Artest’s attitude? No! They liked his defense!
I don’t even care if The Hawks don’t like each other, I never like many of my co-workers at GE Capital the seven years I was there balling either. But, I loved my job and the paychecks was very nice (6 Figures). As a professional, you show up every day, do your job and don’t punch your Boss.
These guys are paid to play and win! Just Win Baby! Be a Pro!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
12:42 am
27th Pick!
Rusty, be patient with Jordan Crawford. He is a gunner a high volume scorer. The league is riddled with his kind. Understand, JC2 was not drafted by The Clippers or the Hawks of 6 years ago with 13 wins.
Jordan came to a 53 Win team, we don’t need his scoring – man we need perimeter defense. When Jordan was selected, we didn’t have Joe. Joe was in L.A. not returning calls to the Hawks. Jamal was pounding the table for a contract extension or be traded.
Jordan was drafted just in case we had no SG! Now, he is buried behind three of them. He may be traded for a PG or C, who knows.
This is a business man, not a love fest! The Celtics traded for Nate Robinson last season at the trade deadline and Doc sat him for 34 Games straight and told him to be ready to win a game in the play offs! Now, Nate was a proven scorer, he dropped 41 on our Hawks 6 weeks (I believe), before he was traded to Boston. The Celtics didn’t need him to score, they needed him to sit, watch and learn how to play Celtic’s Basketball! Run their offense and most of all: Play some damned DEFENSE!
You Heard?
O'Brien
December 30th, 2010
12:58 am
Al is right. When the Hawks play inside out, they usually have success. But sometimes the guards go away from the bigs.
I’m happy for the win, even though the game should not have been close going into the 4th. But it would be nice to get a win in OKC on Friday night. After starting off good on the road, we have struggled there.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
December 30th, 2010
12:59 am
KG’s injury bodes well for the Hawks – they better take advantage and move up in the conference standings while he is out.
LuvSolDat
December 30th, 2010
1:17 am
I was at the game & I have to say when we move the ball two to three touches we get fluid easy points. Josh hasnt been getting the blocks as frequently as of late but he had great poke away steals to go with his better shot selection tonight, when Jamal passed up the trey to Smoove for the trey I knew it was money. JoJo’s jumper is getting silkier every day & he is the man like it or not. ZaZa had a solid inspired game too. Good game all in all.. Go Hawks…
kwooden1
December 30th, 2010
1:28 am
Good win, especially against a team which usually causes us a lot of problems. Al and Josh dominated inside and guys played adequate defensive on the perimeter. Curry clearly was hurting and Ellis just didn’t have it tonight. I question not playing Teague a lot, but at least Bibby didn’t play more than 28 minutes. (which is my personal limit for him) Joe had another tough shooting night, but always brings it on the defensive end and had another good assist night. Everyones getting on Evans, but he’s had some good shooting nights lately. Overall the bench did a nice job, but that really just means Mo and Zaza.
I’ll take the win.
GO HAWKS!!
lewis
December 30th, 2010
1:49 am
appreciate mo’s efforts with the knee but he’s getting beat too often on d
more damien
Clyde
December 30th, 2010
2:12 am
Free Jordan Crawford
Najeh Davenpoop
December 30th, 2010
2:49 am
Josh said the same thing as Al when interviewed at halftime, that when the ball goes inside good things happen. Al is efficient when it comes to scoring inside, while Josh makes it a point to pass to the open guy. This has been the case for at least a couple of years now, that the Hawks’ offense flows better when Al and Josh are the focus. They have done a slightly better job of emphasizing that under LD than they did under Woody, but it still needs to be something the guards consciously do.
hawkfan
December 30th, 2010
3:09 am
kind of interesting, but I wonder if Larry Drew still keeps in contact with Woodson on how to coach to this team effectively and what Woodson tells him as advice, because it sure looks like a 3rd party is in these rotation lineups, from the start of the season till now playing time has decreased or been inconsistent more often then not like it’s now panic mode
Big Ray
December 30th, 2010
7:52 am
Solid win. We didn’t let them run our game on us for most of the night.
Marvin Williams can shut his trap about starting vs. coming off the bench. His offense was nearly nonexistent, he got outrebounded by a significantly smaller small forward, and he got TORCHED by the guy as well. In short, he didn’t do anything right for the bulk of his playing time.
On the flip side of the coin, he has played well in several of the previous 8 games, so let’s see how he bounces back. Oh wait, I forgot. He hurt his back, so we can expect an excuse for him if he sucks in the next 5-10 games. And for a special somebody on this blog:
It WAS a bad pick
Big Ray
December 30th, 2010
7:53 am
Teague probably wakes up these days thinking he Larry Drew is Mike Woodson reincarnated.
Meanwhile, I could not understand why Drew played Crawford so much last night. The guy STUNK, and NO he did NOT defer with the ball nearly as much as has been suggested. Going 2 for 10 from the field isn’t my idea of passing up shots. It’s called MISSING THEM.
dap01
December 30th, 2010
8:36 am
Larry Drew could not bear to take Bibby’s 3 assist and 3 turnovers out of the game a couple of minutes in order to let Teague get a little experience.
Has anyone noticed that when our forwards get a defensive rebound, they push the ball up? If the guards get a pass or rebound, the ball stops. Bibby shoots well but does nothing else even close to average.
Come on LD!
i_am_soulstar
December 30th, 2010
8:38 am
I want this win against OKC bad.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe OKC was the only team that the Hawks didn’t get a win against last season.
Lacsho
December 30th, 2010
8:48 am
What’s good Big Ray?
SMH- I just don’t understand the rotations!!!!
Until we get new ownership, the Hawks will always be a Hot Mess!!!
It was not a bad pick
December 30th, 2010
8:57 am
Big Ray
I never understood why the Hawks even kept that pick…the hawks should have traded the pick..They had no intentions for the guy who they drafted to be no more than a role player..After they traded their life away for Joe Max?….Marvin has been wasted..Against GS, he was 3-7..he only got 7 damn shots..The #2 pick gets 7 shots….if they did what you wanted and drafted Williams or Paul, 2 things would have happened…1.Both would have sat on the bench for 2 years anyway with Woody, the iso offense would not have been kind to them..Dribble it up and get it to Joe. or Flip or jamal and stand in the corner, While Josh has ALWAYS had the green light to jack up untimely jumpers. …2. When we traded our soul for Joe Max, we comitted alot..Money,Money, and him having the ball all game..What the hell would Joe do without the ball? If I was Marvin I would request a trade right now..Get out why you can..I was completely wrong about Drew..he is almost worst than Woodson..
vava74
December 30th, 2010
8:59 am
Big Ray,
Yes, it was the same guy who said to start Teague and… you know what?… that guy is keeping his view on it.
Teague should start every game and play with the big boys and depending on his production Bibby would come in either earlier or later in the first period.
That would develop Teague faster and soon we would know what’s his value.
My guess is that he would struggle against a few teams in the early days but within 10/15 games he would averaging a solid 25/28 minutes per game.
What we saw against Boston is the real Teague, the Teague that was fearless coming off college and that just needs to string a few games together playing 25+ minutes to have a breakout moment.
Also, as said above, Bibby could still be a double digit scorer coming off the bench because when he is hot he can still get 3 or 4 buckets in a row.
He may not be able to create his own shots but he is more reliable than Jamal to knock the open jumper so we could use either as a designated scorer off the bench depending on how the game was flowing and how the defense were playings.
Notwithstanding all the above, it should be noted that yesterday Bibby played a very solid defensive game and when Teague got a bit of light he didn’t. He let Curry get by him twice for drives and dishes that produced two easy buckets.
Duello
December 30th, 2010
8:59 am
Alright, here’s my new theory on Drew and Teague. Drew likes to guard the quicker guards with someone taller. That way they can play off to take away the driving lanes, but still be able to harass the jump shot. This theory at least gives Drew credit for having some sort of plan with Teague.
But really, isn’t it almost insulting to just throw the guy out for three minutes at the start of the 4th. It’s like Drew was thinking “I get called out when Teague gets a DNP, so I need to throw him out there for a little bit…”
clarkekent
December 30th, 2010
9:01 am
Dap01…
you are correct.. Al and Josh push the ball more than Joe and Bibby. Bibby skips all the way up the court ..cross half court then hand it to joe. Jamal and Teague are the only guards who push the ball and one of them can’t get enough playing time. Al and Josh almost always beat bibby up the court and they are the ones who got the rebound. Seriously, watch it closely.
How does your center and power foward play help defense on the pentrating guard, still get back to the glass to box out there man, get the rebound, turn and start up court and still beat your PG down the floor. Who i might add, got beat off a pick and roll, and is the reason why they had to help in the first place. Which is another reson they (C and PF) pick up early fouls…. Your guard cant stay in front of his man. it was the luck of the draw that stephen curry had a bad ankle (but he still got in the paint passed bibby of course)and Monta was off tonight.
Lacsho
December 30th, 2010
9:06 am
What’s good Vava- you nailed it!!!!
It was not a bad pick
December 30th, 2010
9:08 am
i could see if Marvin had to defer to Kobe or LBJ..but Joe Max?..Josh”Bad shot”Smith, and Jamal”If my shot aint falling what do I do”Crawford..Last night Jamal came in at pg..lol..and jacked up 10 shots and made 2..Time to bash marvin?…I like Josh, but never understood why Marvin, the 5th option in this crazy lineup, gets bash more than Josh..Typical 2 minute stretch for Josh: bad long shot, bad long shot,turnover trying to lead the break, then he will block a shot and he is a hero…Its time for Marvin to grow some kahunas and request a trade..JT better pray that he is involved in that trade also…It looks like he is the next victim…Jordan could be next..the Hawks should have never kept woodson around 5 years and then hire a bigger dummy then woodson..
Geemack
December 30th, 2010
9:15 am
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
“KG’s injury bodes well for the Hawks – they better take advantage and move up in the conference standings while he is out”
Wow! Is that how you want the Hawks to move up, because another player got injured?
vava74
December 30th, 2010
9:24 am
And, why is everyone overreacting about Marvin’s production last night?
Jezzzzz…. he had a string of good games and almost everyone who is not a super duper superstar has bad games.
Now, if he injured his back again and will revert back to being a non factor, please protest all that you want but focusing on his production last night is an overreaction.
Just look at the much beloved Granger: he is shooting .411 from the floor this year and his past 2 games he shot .238 (5-21) and .389 (7-18).
Rudy – max contract – Gay in his last 4 games had 2 in which he shot .250 (4-16) and .356 (6-17).
Marvin had 6 solid games out of the last 8. He is shooting .480 from the floor and his 3 point shooting is improving rapidly after an horrible beginning of the season.
This is not – by all means – a blind vote of trust in Marvin not disappearing again but simply that right now its an overreaction.
He was 3-7 with at least 2 shots rimming out but with good alignment and to put on him all the blame for Wright’s 32 points is preposterous. Sometimes when a guy is balling, it’s just that.
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
9:28 am
With all the banter here, you would have thought the Hawks lost last night. I can agree with alot said here, but they did win this one against a team that doesn’t really have a game plan. GS got little from their backcourt and it wasn’t because of our perimeter defenders.
DMB – 2 thumbs up! That’s some good stuff there…JC2 wants a slot? He has to take minutes from JC1…plain and simple. He’s the rook and he better be ready when called upon.
We ought to treat Marvin and his comments like he treats us with his performance: like we didn’t even know he was on the court. This guy continues to disappear….also tell him he left his defense at home.
And how about his 1/2 hour spotlight show afterwards? I will have it memorized in about 2 weeks with all the times they have shown it this season. Cmon Marvin, no more comments about startin’…just play when you’re told to play.
The Teague/Bibby minutes debate rages on….not a lot you can say on that one….at least someone else thinks Teague has value…we are just stuck with the Bibby/Zaza/Marvin rotation until their contracts run out.
But, a win is a win, and time to hit the road….
Mike is back
December 30th, 2010
9:37 am
MC, first off…even though it was GS…a win is a win…so Good Win by the Hawks!!
Big Ray, I think LD will eventually follow through on giving Teague more PT…however I don’t think it will be as a starter…I think he eventually get his chance…he just has to stay ready…it is what it is.
I do wish LD would stay true and open up competition for more than just the PG and Center positions…it’s already paying dividend…look at the improve play of Zaza and Bibby…these guys are being push and they are responding…and Marvin can say what it wants…he plays more motivated coming off the pine…it’s not a hard decision for me…play Marvin where he helps the team more…that’s coming off the bench…save for injury to a key starter.
As long as LD is holding everyone accountable at the same level…I’m cool with that…however thus far…that hasn’t been the case…still wouldn’t throw dude under the bus…and call him another Woody…it’s too soon.
Woody take yo pins out of your LD doll…this is one of boy’s folk…heh heh…lol
Westurd
December 30th, 2010
9:46 am
Free Teague….
Astro Joe
December 30th, 2010
10:02 am
Didn’t Josh get benched about 2 games ago when he kept launching perimeter shots (and missing) against the Bucks? How many times have we heard LD say that he wants Josh to start out in the paint… but Josh starts out on the perimeter? Stop blaming the guards for every perimeter shot and go look at how many jumpers our “bigs” take in an average game. No doubt, we should be playing closer tot he basket but that’s on all 5 to make happen.
Sorry guys, MC already covered the Teague story. LD clearly thinks that the good/bad of playing the youngster weighs too heavily on the not good side. He went from a consistent rotational player to something of a situational player. He had his shot and his coach, who undoubtedly supported him from jump, lost confidence in Teague. I, for one, trust the head coach in these situations. There are better options in front of Teague. At best, he may be our consistent back-up PG of the future but lets not project any further than that.
Rufus1
December 30th, 2010
10:11 am
This article Peachtreehoops.com
This is for those people who think Woody> or = to LD as a coach
“The Hawks are now 21-13 on the season and as I noted in yesterday’s game thread, they are only one game off of their pace from last season when they were 22-12 after 34 games. Maybe that can provide some perspective in what has seemed like an up and down early part to the season. Look at it this way. If before the season I had told you that Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, and Marvin Williams would all miss significant time in the first 34 games and the Hawks would have one less win than they did at this point last season would you have took it? Just something to think about going forward. At any rate the team is now re-establishing some home dominance having won nine in a row at Philips Arena while being 12-5 at home overall.”
The Hawks had no major injuries in the 1st 34 games.
Rufus1
December 30th, 2010
10:13 am
“last year The Hawks had no major injuries in the 1st 34 games.”
It was not a bad pick
December 30th, 2010
10:14 am
Astro Joe
If Jt is smart he better get the hell out of ATL..drew is just like woodson
Rufus1
December 30th, 2010
10:15 am
Full article
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2010/12/30/1903885/game-recap-atlanta-hawks-103-golden-state-warriors-93#storyjump
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
10:35 am
It Was – It looks that way. Teague is going to be a solid player for somebody in this League. Hope it’s ATL.
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
10:38 am
The reason LD is hear is because they like the core and they didn’t want to go too far away from what the ASG deem has been as successful.
The Hawks are in the same position they were a year ago, and many expected as much. It’s what happens going forward against a tougher schedule that is upcoming. This is a team of streaks.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
10:45 am
KevinM – Yea, this 4 games in 6 day West Coast trip kinda has my concerned. The Thunder and Jazz with Clips and Kings sandwiched in the middle. We could easily go 1-3. Or worse.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
10:51 am
My Take on LD: He is a much better pre-game coach than Woody. Hence, we get out to bog early leads, and almost always play better in the 1st half than the 2nd half. But he doesn’t seem to anticipate other teams adjustments at the half, so the 3rd and 4th quarters we struggle.
He is Woody light. Especially in his struggle to develop Teague and JC2. You can’t expect Teague to have = basketball smarts to 2 30+ year old vets like Jamal and Bibby. And you can only learn so much in practice. He’s just going to have to bite the bullet, and say for the good of the team and franchise, Teague plays, mistakes and all.
I guess Josh Powell is either resting his knee, or he’s joined Damien on the end of the bench?
Mo Evans is our player rep with the Union. LD is a former player. Any questions on why he plays?
It was not a bad pick
December 30th, 2010
10:51 am
SteveW
this is crazy, ownership should have brought a coach from outside the hawks organization..Too many young players being wasted for average players..
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
10:53 am
Steve, you gotta be thrilled with a 2-2 split. This team has enough depth to do it….LD has to find time for Powell. I just don’t think he throws Teague out there in this WC swing.
The only way Teague’s minutes go up is if Bibby gets hurt. He is a lock for 35 minutes.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
10:55 am
And if you would have told me Marvin, Mo, Jamal, and JJ would be out and injured for stretches before the season, I would have told you we would be a .500 team right now. So LD is doing something right. And I like LD’s lineup changes based on who we’re playing.
Hope Al makes another All Star game. The East has some good C’s behind Howard: Barnini, Lopez, Bogut, Noah (hurt now). And Bosh will probably make it ahead of Smoove, both behind Stoudamire. And Jackson or Richardson probably makes it ahead of JJ.
So we may have 3 All Stars or none. It just depends…
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
10:59 am
We’ll need Teague against Westbrook, another not pure PG who’s doing pretty good, and we’ll need him against DeRon. Teague would eat Baron Davis alive, but he probably won’t be allowed to.
Baron Davis is the 1 PG starting in the NBA I think Bibby can man up on.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
11:00 am
Bibby and Baron work out at the same gym, Burger King.
Sautee
December 30th, 2010
11:04 am
“It was not a bad pick”
said this: “Its time for Marvin to grow some kahunas and request a trade..”
OK, now there’s a start. At LEAST you are now admitting that Marvin lacks “stones”.
Don’t you think that’s part of why he gets criticized here?
If Marvin played like he had “kahunas” then he would have gotten the shots you say he needs to be a consistent scorer. Instead he disappears for long stretches of many games.
And you want to put it all on the coach? Ummm, ok, yeah right.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
11:07 am
I still remember Teague’s famous DLeague statement. I don’t need to learn to be a true PG. I’ll mostly be passing the ball up the court in the wings to either JJ or Jamal (paraphrase). It was then I said Uh-oh, the kid doesn’t have a clue. Then he gets hurt in training camp, and has been behind ever since.
But I still say start him. Bibby can’t look at the bench as a demotion, but as a different way to help the team win. Bibby would still get his minutes, and be much fresher for the playoffs.
With Teague at Point, and ZaZa playing beast inside, we can beat the Heat. We have the tools to do it.
The Celts on the other hand may have to much beef inside, especially if Perkins gets back. He’ ahead of schedule and already back at practice, may be back before the end of January. But if KG is gone…
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
11:09 am
I still say we match up pretty well with everybody in the East if we utilize our talent. We may surprise some people.
Rev in Tampa
December 30th, 2010
11:22 am
Rufus1,
Thanks for the quote from Peachtreehoops.com. It is interesting to see how this year’s Hawks team is so similar in the standings to last year’s team at this point in the seaon. It is a cause for confidence to remember that last year’s team was free from the injury bug but is still at the same place in the standings.
However, this also brought back for me the overwhelming feelings of frustration that this team has caused me over the past two years. I remember when the Hawks topped the ESPN Power Rankings last year for ONE WEEK. When that ranking came out I printed it out and taped to the door in my church office. I especially highlighted that the Hawks were ranked above the Magic and the Celtics. (Here in Tampa basketball fans cheer for the Magic somewhat, but more for the Celtics since they are all d—- yankees). I talked smack for about three days until the Hawks went on that bewildering losing streak and fell like a rock from the top of the Power Rankings.
Granted, the Hawks are doing some things better this season. And there is the foundation for an improved team this year in the playoffs, but there are frustrating traits to this team that defy explanation. And these frustrating traits were a part of the personality of last year’s team. These frustrating traits are more mental than physical. That’s what makes this team so frustrating some times – they can be better than they are without adding any other pieces to the team.
After watching this team this season I believe that the Hawks can move past the second round of the playoffs if they will improve their MENTAL approach to the game. However, if they stay the same team MENTALLY then we should expect the same result as last year in the playoffs.
The only way for the Hawks to grow mentally is for Drew to hold the players accountable (especially on defense). It was disturbing on one of the last couple of blogs to hear that Drew is still switching on D in order to hide the deficiencies. This may help the Hawks win in the short-term but will not force this team to grow in mental toughness in the long-term. I think Drew needs to make a decision that will take mental toughness on his part – that is, throw Teague into the starting role now.
That being said, I don’t believe the Hawks can win an NBA championship as currently constructed. The Hawks are too imbalanced right now to be considered an elite team. I am still hoping AGAINST HOPE that a trade will be made sometime this season to help this team take another step forward.
6th seed
December 30th, 2010
11:27 am
The hawks are a few percentage points ahead of the knicks in 5th seed. Expect this to be a battle all season long as the Knicks players learn each other and uses their talent to pass the hawks into 5 seeding.
The hawks will probably end up a six seed. Clearly last year team and coach was superior.
O'Brien
December 30th, 2010
11:29 am
Vava,
Although I think teague should get more PT, I don’t think he should start. The offense runs better with bibby, and he knocks down shots early to get the offense going. What I do agree with is bibby should not play more than 25-28 minutes unless he is balling.
It was not a bad pick,
Although Marvin did not play well last night, he has had a good 6 games out of 8 (as Vava said). And if Marvin can play well every 3 out of 4 games, that would be great.
However, if Marvin is having a bad shooting night, he does nothing else to positively influence the game. If Josh is having a bad shooting night, he might still give u 8 rebounds, or 3 blocks, 3 assists etc, so he still helps the team in other ways.
6th seed
December 30th, 2010
11:31 am
This years team is a lot weaker in the interior than lasts years and the coaching is truly a handicap for the hawks this year. A few steps down from M. Woodson. This team is just not at the level of intensity of last years or the year before that. To say the hawks have gotten soft is an understatement. Its easy to project this team struggling and out in the first round.
Sund F ed up!
Rev in Tampa
December 30th, 2010
11:33 am
Everybody has been wondering where Woody has been. Now we all know…
He is sitting at home blogging under the name “6th seed”
Scoop
December 30th, 2010
11:36 am
The Hawks biggest weakness is that they let their opponents establish the game’s tempo. Maybe it is because the Hawks are effective in both the up-tempo and half court styles, unlike most teams, but it should be very important to us to dictate the pace and make our opponents respond.
Case in point was last night vs Golden State-we got any thing we wanted inside in our half court set, but guys got tempted by GS to push the break. What we need to realize is we are playing into their hands when we do this; they want us to play helter-scelter and unorganized because they could not stop anybody from getting into the paint and a lot of our turnovers were a result of this.
Against a team like Boston, it could be beneficial to make their old legs run because their so good in half court defense, but we should be methodically picking GS apart. It is worth mentioning the job we did against GS’s back court- Joe did not like energetic, but Mo played some very effective minutes off the bench. Also, I thought Bibby played hard last night. He was making in effort to get inside and although he turned it over a couple of times, his decisions were good.
Going to be interesting matching OKC and ATL. JJ and Durant will be a great matchup. I also would like to see Damien get a lil PT on Durant and see if his aggressive defense and length can bother him. Teague might be needed as well on Westbrook.
Scoop
December 30th, 2010
11:37 am
lol at Rev in Tampa
rusty
December 30th, 2010
11:43 am
Drmaryb. I guess you didn’t watch much of preseason or summer league . Jc2 is a real good player.he is a born killer of a scorer from inside or out. He is very quick & handles the ball well,he can even play pg. How the heck can’t you see he will be a star in this league . Who the heck are we using mo ahead of him . He is the future now if we give him a chance. What are we doing having jc1 play pg. The way jj ‘@ jc1 have been playing I think we could give him sometime without any real loss. Let’s not do to him what we have done to league & others
Samuel
December 30th, 2010
11:47 am
Results don’t lie. Good post 6th seed.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
11:57 am
Personally, I don’t think the Knicks have the horses for a sustained run They’re basically Amare and some nice peices. That’s it. They are like Ga. Tech in football. They’re hard to prepare for because you don’t see they’re offense that often, but it’s really just smoke and mirrors.
Rev – Case #1 for mental meltdowns in big games is JSmoove.
And 1 of my biggest frustrations with this team is that we are so close to being legit contenders. I keep wanting us to make the right move to put us right there. Imagine if we would have signed TMac, Shaq, and Damp. We would be closer than close right now, by signing 3 Vet minimum guys!
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
Rusty, I do agree that for a 27th pick, JC2 has a great skill set. But he is undisciplined at this level, and has to learn how to play the NBA game. That’s one reason I’m excited about next season (Unless there’s a lockout. Grrr!). LD is going to be forced to play JT and JC2 because Jamal and Mo’ will be gone.
We will be more erratic because we lose two vets. But we will be more exciting because 2 more great basketball players and athletes will be playing. JC2 has like a 4% body fat. We may lose a couple of more games next year because of the inexperience, but it will be nice to inject some fresh blood in this lineup. Nothing against Jamal or Mo’ either. Like’em both.
OKC is kinda erratic also, but what fun to watch that athleticism and skill up and down the court.
terrell
December 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
Time to move Jamal/Mo for something (sf,center,or pg). Gotta see what we have in Teague. Let Marvin be the 6th man. Jeff actually looks pretty good when given some min with the STARTERS. And btw, I just saw that game winnning shot by Tyreke Evans from damn near the opposing free-throw line. Some idiot was calling it a lucky shot. If it was a lucky shot, why cant I imagine our so called superstar(JJ) winning a game with a shot like that? Has to be some skill involved there. Just a thought.
Ken Strickland
December 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
STEVEW-If Teague made that DLeague statement last yr, then I can understand why he made it. After all, he was only referring to what he saw Bibby do in Woodson’s system? Besides shooting 3pointers, wasn’t getting the ball across half court and handing it off to a wing player, or JJ, basically the sum total of what Bibby did?
I have to give credit where credit is due, and MBibby definitely deserves a lot of credit for last nights win. He was very effective on both ends of the court. While I’ve made my concerns known about Teague and Bibby, I’ll hold off on Teague for now until the trade deadline has passed. We can’t lose sight of the fact that none of us has inside info on managements intentions. Therefore, all we have to go on at this point is pure speculation about what’s going on with certain players.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
12:09 pm
I still say the Lakers, Celts, and Heat have a 2 year window. Then it’s ATL, OKC, and Memphis, unless Memphis loses Gasol and Randoph who are both FA’s this year.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
12:15 pm
KenS – I know, that’s what I mean. I knew LD was installing the Motion O, and to hear Teague make that statement, as I said, I was like Uh-oh. I’m sure LD thought the same thing. Then he got hurt and couldn’t learn the system, and has been playing catch up ever since.
And KenS, glass half full scenario. I say if Teague develops (and the season is still not half over yet), Marvin keeps playing the way he has recently, and ZaZa/Collins steps up, that barring injury, we’re about as good as anybody else in the East. Bulls, Celts, Heat, Magic, Knicks, anybody.
I think LD knows how to play the Magic better than Woody. All those teams are tough. But so would the Hawks be (tougher than they are now).
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
12:19 pm
SteveW
Thanks for the JC2 comments to my buddy rusty there. I had run out of words trying to explain that JC2 will be just fine. Don’t worry about the kid, his time will come. There has been a lot of NEW going on with the team:
New Offense
New Defense
New Coach
New Injuries (unheard of around here)
Its only been 32 Games, everybody needs to calm down and be patient. The starters are still trying to find their way, it takes time to gel before you can add in the extra nice pieces. We just read a MC post where Jamal is just now figuring out how to play his role in the New Offensive Sets and he is a 12 year vet!
Don’t give up on JT0 nor JC2, they’re not going anywhere.
Their time will come, just be ready to Ball, when that bell is TOLLING!
darrell starks
December 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
The hawks won last night but LD again get a big fat f, i hope he don’t fall in the bad habit’s of woody ball with and 8man rotation.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
12:24 pm
KenS – This from MC’s July 14th blog, 2010 – “Teague said. “I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.” Wow!!
This while he had produce 9 TO’s in a summer league game against a no name hack (Ahem, DLeague journeyman).
Now do we know why LD doesn’t trust him? But ya’ gotta play him, or he’ll never learn. What a skill set when he’s in there! But he did get rattled in DLeague.
hawksfan12
December 30th, 2010
12:24 pm
can we please trade mike bibby and jaml crawford to the bobcats for DJ augustin and gerald wallace? the bobcats want a veteran guard and a scoring guard. they get both and we get rid of jamal crawford’s contract and bring in a point gaurd who averages more points than bibby anyway. plus wallace can contribute 2
dap01
December 30th, 2010
12:28 pm
Everyone: Watch the body language of every one of the other Hawks when JJ get the ball on offense and he goes into the ISO. They all stop moving immediately, they stand upright and seem to be waiting.
This has to be a great thing for other teams to see. It certainly takes any pressure off of the opposing defense to know that the 4 of the men in the offense just shut down. They need only to concentrate on JJ at that moment.
sam'l
December 30th, 2010
12:31 pm
Excuse me, but I see a problem here…….actually another minor problem cropped up…..
“The hawks will probably end up a six seed. Clearly last year team and coach was superior” from a contributor named 6th seed.
There is no shame being compared to the New York Knicks. Even my live-in female companion (who never watched basketball before this year, even though she did watch every Nancy Grace show trying to convict Koby Bryant)…..even she remarked that the team on TV (the Knicks) played fast and went for the victory…..D’antoni is a proven coach….Amare is on fire….and whoever that white guy is who rebounds,drbbles and regularly puts in 30-foot jumpshots (ballanari, mollanari….)
may put new york back in the pudding. So, if we have to fight the knicks, so be it……NO disgrace.
But “clearly” last year’s team wasn’t superior….it’s the SAME TEAM only more banged up. And clearly, the coach isn’t superior……Watch Jason Kidd ram Woodson on the court, and then watch several fourth quarter hopelessly pathetic meltdowns, then the Orlando series……and rethink your position……..That would be no disgrace either……
I’m not trying to start another war here…..I just disagree totally……(There’s enough ambient energy floating around here)
But here’s the real problem……Joe Johnson now claims his elbow doesn’t work………Get him back to the doctor, and sit him down if necessary…..
That’s a several million dollar elbow…..and also of course, JJ is a sentient human being regardless of the monetary aspect, and he kind of owes it to himself to have all his parts working and at their best……plus the artistic angle you fill in the blanks….
This guy was supposed to slowly come back……I don’t care if we seed eighth…..(we couldn’t do worse) when the playoffs come (and when Joe retires to do something else)……we want hiselbow to be 100% OKAY.
i think the other “intelligent” teams, Boston, San Antonio come to mind……would mandatorily sit him down until he heals.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
12:33 pm
Darrel – I agree. I keep thinking some of our starters are playing too many minutes. We have a deep bench, like Wilkens, Powell, Collins, and Teague. Why not use them a few minutes a game and rest the starters a little more. Come playoff time, it will pay dividends.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
12:36 pm
Besides the Cavs, the East is clearly improved also. The Bucks are stinking it up pretty good right now as well however.
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
12:39 pm
DrmaryB, where have you seen new defense with this team?
hawksfan12
December 30th, 2010
12:40 pm
still wanna got with that bobcats trade
darrell starks
December 30th, 2010
12:40 pm
Teague 2min last what the H is that MC ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
Is josh powell hurt MC ? he have not played the last 4 games.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 30th, 2010
12:46 pm
Marvin is complaining about starting, in what way do he have the right 2 say anything, 6year of basketball for marvin enough said.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
I.MUS WRITE
December 30th, 2010
12:47 pm
JJ and Marvin are plaing sum horrible ball right now. Mo Evans sux knee or no knee. teague is fast and thats about it. he holds the ball to long in the half court sets -when he has the ball the team looks lost, I cant blame LD for sitting him.
Horford Smoove Bibby are keeping us afloat right now.
Wilkins should be coming off the bench before Evans. Atleast he plays D and hustles.Mo gets abused repeatedly.
darrell starks
December 30th, 2010
12:54 pm
Long season, LD have 2 continue with the 10man rotation 2 keep everybody fresh for the playoff’s plus developing your bench.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
I.MUS WRITE
December 30th, 2010
12:56 pm
6th seed I feel u dude-as much as I hated Woody, the team played harder for him and the D was alot better.
Whats the difference between Marvin/Bibby and Monte Ellis/Wilkins,
Trade Marvin and Bibby or JC! for Ellis and a pick…Wilkins is just as good as Marvin no show Williams and Monte no explanation needed. The only players I wouldnt trade are Smoove n Horford
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
12:56 pm
Steve, perhaps we can beat the Heat on an off night, but there is no way we match them in a playoff series. Both teams have players with lots to prove, but that Big 3 is too much to overcome. The more the Heat play together, the more dynamic they become. Their rotation will get shorter come March.
We know how our guys will play long term.
The Celtics health will be the only thing that keeps them from the ECF.
The only surprise I can imagine is if we can somehow get the Celtics in the 2nd round. We might be able to win a game or 2 at home.
This Hawks team does not give you the feel that they have what it takes to win night in / night out. The tough part of the schedule is just beginning. Marvin can’t be a folding card table and only be useful once every 3 nights. Joe’s good numbers have to increase as well. He needs to take over in bad stretches. You can’t survive with the team scoring 30 points in the 2nd half.
I didn’t even bring Orlando or Chicago into the equation. The only way we win any series will be with the home court.
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
What will Sund do?
What has Sund done?
Probably more the of the same we have seen his 2+ years. Nothing irrational, just stay the course.
I.MUS WRITE
December 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
I could give a ratz azz if marvin is complaining about his role -too dam bad, now he knows how we feel -we’ve been complaining about his game since season 1. He is a below avg Sf in this league -he’s where he belongs until he plays up to his capabilities consistently.
Honestly I would rather have Beasley or Brewer for Marvin….2 Sf on one of the worst teams in the league. Marvin just doesnt hv it -period. If he played in Washington or Philly he would still get overshadowed.
bigdave
December 30th, 2010
1:07 pm
“Stop blaming the guards for every perimeter shot and go look at how many jumpers our “bigs” take in an average game. No doubt, we should be playing closer tot he basket but that’s on all 5 to make happen.”
CO SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
1:13 pm
If you guys remember, just about the last time we saw Josh P play consistently it was when he landed awkward under the basket.
MY TRADES FOR THE DAY!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29sgpeh
Hawks Get
OJ Mayo
Hasheem Thabeet
Memphis Get
Mike Bibby
Zaza P.
Then the big one, a 3 team trade
Hawks Get
G. Wallace
D. Augustin
M. Camby
Charlotte Gets:
Marvin Williams
Mo Evans
Hawks 1st and 2nd pick
Etan Thomas
Portland Gets
Jamal Crawford
J. Powell
Everyone gets what they wants.
The Hawks new line up ends up looking like
PG: Augustin/Teague/Mayo
SG:Joe/Mayo/Wilkins
SF:G. Wallace/ Josh/ Joe/ Wilkins
PF: Josh/ Al/ Camby
C. Al/ Camby/ Collins/ Thabeet
Memphis does this trade because they get rid of two players they feel didn’t work out, and gain 2 players with extensive playoff experience (and Bibby goes home to his first team).
Charlotte does this deal, because there are a lot of people in NC who still love Marvin Williams. Also Charlotte gets $3 million more expiring deals to go with the $17 mil they already have expiring. And we know MJ would love a chance to rebuild this entire roster ($20 million expiring will help him do that). Also Charlotte doesn’t like Augustin, and feel he’s vastly underperformed since giving up Felton.
Portland does it, because they add a scorer who will help sell tickets.
The Hawks does it, because it gives you a 2 year window to maximize this deal, and get to (hopefully win) ECF. If it works, great. If it doesn’t Josh, Wallace, Camby, Thabeet, and Mayo’s deal expires just in time for D12 to hit the market.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
1:39 pm
Defense!
Ramon, Hello? Where have you been?
The Hawks don’t switch on every possession anymore.
L-QUE
December 30th, 2010
1:49 pm
GREAT WIN,i still hope Atlanta trade for a scoring-facilitating point guard so our bigs wont have to always start,run and finish the fast breaks Bibby Jamal andMo cant finish ,cant start either
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
1:49 pm
Drmaryb, you’re right they changed some concepts. But the Hawks still do switch an awful lot. they just switch off ball instead of on ball now. That’s why Josh be mad so many times, because when he switch off the ball, no one ever picks up his man (normally Bibby is the culprit). But you’re right.
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
1:50 pm
I really think the Hawks should be pushing for Augustin, even if it takes giving up Bibby.
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
1:52 pm
If all of the fans see that Josh and Al can’t give up the ball on defensive rebounds to start a fast breaks, why is it that Dominique can’t see this? Every game he says ‘that is why I’d like to see Josh and Al give up the ball and run the lanes’. If they give up the ball they’re going to be running by themselves looking crazy.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
2:15 pm
Ramon
That 1st Trade might have some teeth. OJ & Thabeet for Bibby and Zsa, IDK if that makes the Hawks Better though, but at least it would be a Change – right?
IDK if it’s a Change We Can Believe In though?
That three way trade scenario is a smoking pipe dream thought (choose your drug of choice there), There is no way MJ gives up Augistin & Wallace (there two best players) for:
Marvin, Maurice, Etan and two Low Picks.
Besides, the Bobcats just fired Larry Brown and hired Paul Silas and are on a 3 Game win streak. I told yall that Larry Brown has about a 2 year shelf life before he pisses everybody off, from the trainers to the Owners, everywhere he has been. MJ will not rebuild with garbage and scrubs, he will tweak and add talent. Captn Jack will be the first to go, but that team quit on Brown.
Silas said at his presser last night: “DJ can just play now and run the show, I don’t even call plays, he doesn’t have to look at the sidelines on every posession and wait for the hook when he makes a mistake, anymore.
I encourage the players and don’t beat them down.”
What an indictment of Larry Brown that was. And, that’s the stýle of Coaching you get from:
Avery Johnson
Doug Collins
Larry Brown
Byron Scott
Mike Woodson?
Larry Drew is more of an intellectual and a teacher, with a Tony Dungy persona.
Who was that SF 49ers Coach: Mike Singletary was just fired for ruling with an iron fist! These players today will not be disrespected, it’s that whole generation of too much money and power that is low on discipline.
It is a Players League people: See LeBron.
L-QUE
December 30th, 2010
2:20 pm
Ramon – Atlanta dont need all that junk just a scoring point who defends,with Jamal,Bibby and Mo salaries off the books that alone will be enough to sign Howard,TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP you almost need two teams,look at Boston they are the team we must keep pace with,Camby-Wallace are max players-Mayo,Augustine,Thabeet are developing players ,if we cant get help now whats the point, were do the money come from,
hawksfan12
December 30th, 2010
2:21 pm
Ramon
i agree with you on tht trade. thats wat we need
hawksfan12
December 30th, 2010
2:29 pm
we can use a guy like augustin. i kno everybody remembers when he came into the phillips arena and broke the rec. for threes scored by an opposing team in our building. the kid has talent. TRADE FOR HIM! PLEASE SUND!!!!!!!!!!!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
2:32 pm
Ramon
And also, before Brown was fired, MJ was shopping to see what he can get for his guys. But, make NO mistake: word is he is asking for a LOT in return.
So, NO, you’re not gonna get his guys for:
Marvin
Maurice
Bibby
Etan
2 Low Picks
Besides why give anything àt all for Maurice and Etan they can be had for free next Summer, prolly a bag of NBA socks with Jerry West Logos.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
2:53 pm
Hawksfan12 decries:
“hawksfan12
we can use a guy like augustin. i kno everybody remembers when he came into the phillips arena and broke the rec. for threes scored by an opposing team in our building. the kid has talent. TRADE FOR HIM! PLEASE SUND!!!!!!!!!!”
________________________________
Is high school still out? Where do these kids come from? Do they really believe in Santa Claus? Because, that’s what it will take to pry Augistin away from the Bobcats!
Ok, I will play devils advocate here:
1. Why would Charlotte trade their only PG, who they let Felton go for?
2. If they were stupid enough to trade a stand-out PG, would they do it for Maurice and Bibby?
3. Where is the DAMNED logic?
Uuggh! Ok drmaryb, gather yourself and don’t take the Bait Car – Its a trap, a trick a hoax!
Back to the real world! We need to throw JTO out there and perhaps sink or swim, just to prove to Sund and ASKG that we need a True PG.
Start Collins and find an upgrade at Center at some point in the near future.
Or, tell Josh to start TAMPERING now, and recruit Dwight to come back home. He expressed that he wanted to be drafted here initially. Family, Friends and Atlanta rocks! Line that up and hold tight until then.
Clear the Bench and Get Him Here!
ILL-Logical
December 30th, 2010
2:56 pm
Some perspective on how everything that glitters is not gold in life:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/123110dnspovanexel.66c4905b.html
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
3:22 pm
Drmaryb, I agree with you on the part about Larry Brown. However, I do disagree about the Bobcats not being willing to do a deal like that. MJ knows the best way to rebuild this team will be through free agents and talent through the draft. Wallace is having one of his worst seasons in his career. And Wallace is owed $11 mil for 2 more seasons. Even if it takes sending Crawford, Zaza, Teague, and a draft pick for Wallace, Diop, and Augustin, I think that deal is worth it. Charlotte would do that because of the expiring deals of Crawford and Mo. And Teague is also a North Carolina product that has a lot of fans in the area. Also Diop contract is worse than Zaza’s.
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
3:26 pm
Drmary, MJ was asking for a lot as a collective package, Wallace, Jackson, and Augustine. Each of them were on the block. And aside from Billups, MJ also tried to trade Augustine just for Andre Miller and Chauncey Billups, but have yet to pull the trigger on either deal.
ignition
December 30th, 2010
3:28 pm
Honestly the Hawks should trade Jamal for another big.. We need a space eater for boards & defense.. We gotta protect the rim.
Jamal also is a defensive liability..
Right about now Billy Knight is looking like a better GM than this other guy we have now.
slimjr
December 30th, 2010
3:35 pm
It was a bad pick….
Marvin “DUCK” Williams for WNBA”MVP”!!
Joe just keep hoisting those jumpers man.The 3 stooges need ya man!!
Sund=Billy
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
3:41 pm
Ramon
All that was, was a Heat Check before the trade deadline to see what he can get. Also, that was before Larry Brown was dismissed due to the players quitting on Larry’s bully-ball tactics.
When, we played Charlotte, Wallace was and Jackson took himself out of that game with 7 minutes left in the 1st Qrtr (to compound Wallace absence), and mysteriously his elbow pain subsided and Jackson returned in the 4th Qrtr.
I’m sure all the players went to MJ and expressed they would not play for Brown.
MJ resolved a lot of chemistry issues by replacing Brown with a players coach in Silas. MJ is not gonna gut his team to collect the Hawks garbage and some unknown picks. Get Real!
Word is, MJ was looking for a LOT! Not our scrubs – end of that discussion.
Would The Hawks trade Josh and Marvin and Jamal and Teague for:
Other teams lesser talent. Wallace is an All Star not a scrub he just quit on Larry. I would love to have Wallace for Marvin, but that ain’t NEVER gonna happen in our life time. Stop dreaming and move on from that.
I’m done there.
i_am_soulstar
December 30th, 2010
4:12 pm
Maybe we can trade Pape Sy for Angel McCoughtry.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
4:54 pm
Stephen Jackson scored 38 for the Bobcats last night. He cooks in Silas’ offense.
O'Brien
December 30th, 2010
4:56 pm
Oh Oh, Marvin’s back is hurting again, so he wont be making the trip. Good thing we signed Damien. I hope Marvin gets better soon.
I have given Marvin a hard time (and deservedly so), but he has been playing better, and we need him healthy.
With a new CBA coming, and a possible reduction in player salaries for next season, I think teams will be more than willing to trade for expirings (like Jamal’s $10.5 expiring). So if Rick wants to trade him, I think he will have good options.
But as usual, the question is What Will Sund Do?
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
4:57 pm
The Hawks are 6th in the NBA in total D at 94.5 per game. Isn’t that about 3 pts per game better than last season? Who says we’re not playing good D this season?
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:07 pm
Hawks versus Heat:
PG is a wash. Bibby and Teague (with Jamal) is probably better than Chalmers/Arroyo/House
SG Wade is better than JJ. But Jamal is better than Miller. Advantage Heat by a small margin
SF LeBron is way better than Marvin. But Marvin and Wilkens can shut him down as well as anybody not named Paul Pierce can. James Jones is OK Advantage Heat
PF Bosh has been outstanding recently, and has probably played himself into an All Star game again. But Smoove can neutralize him. And with Udonis out, I call this one Equal.
C Z, Anthony, Dampier, and Magliore against Horford, ZaZa, Collins, and Etan Hawks win the Center position. Z is looking old.
I stand by may statement: If Teague develops (and the season is only 40% over), ZaZa plays like he did last night consistently, Marvin keeps beasting it (for him anyway), and we stay healthy, we can play with the Heat as well as anybody. They are not used to people being able to match their athleticism like the Hawks can. Not just my opinion, but several in the League think we give them problems.
And don’t discount DWade getting hurt again. The man plays like a kamikaze. But it breeds injuries.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:09 pm
Our biggest problem versus the Heat? Mental. We fold like a tent in a big game. We need Josh to see a Sports Psychologist.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:13 pm
Out of all of the contenders, I think we match up worst with the C’s if they’re healthy. Their veteran professionalism just kills us. And inside with Shaq, Jermaine, Kendrick, and Big Baby, that’s 3 guys over 280, and 1 at 265. We have none over 280, and really only 1 over 260 which is ZaZa at 275. Etan is 260 but only 6-8, and JC3 is 255.
They and Rondo kill us. But I think Teague can stick to Rondo. But we have no one to stick on Nate.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:20 pm
I just don’t want the Hawks to be quitters!! If somebody beats them by 25 in the 1st game, get an attitude and come out fighting to the end in the last game. Don’t be cowards, have guts!
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
5:23 pm
Steve, we aren’t beating the Heat anytime soon. We don’t match up with them….something about Smoove who is always trying to one-up Bosh, but always struggles in these games.
Big 3 versus Hawks 3: JJ/Wade – Wade
Smoove/Bosh – Bosh
Al / LeBron – LeBron does more than Al can
his team.
We really don’t have much if any of an inside advantage against them. Marvin/Bibby don’t give us the advantage over Z/Arroyo.
Bench – it is what it is…..not sure of any advantage of either side.
Hey, next up OKC, we better be getting the ball inside early before Durant and co. get hot.\
Kudos to the Hawks for their improvement in the numbers on D….any notch above last year is an improvement. Let’s get to about 50 games to see how good they really are.
OB, But as usual, the question is What Will Sund Do?
I have been asking that since the FA period opened. While I truly expected Joe to leave based on his year ending results, perhaps that big house was too much to unload in this market and he knew he couldn’t financially recoup what he would have missed had he gone to NY. And he might not like to be criticized by the NY media. But adding him to that Knick lineup would have made them a much better team.
Hey, 2 good games tonight: Knicks/Magic followed by Spurs/Mavs…
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:24 pm
Marvin out indefintely.
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta-hawks/2010/12/30/1904447/marvin-williams-injury-atlanta-hawks-forward-stays-in-atlanta-while
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:25 pm
KevinM – Agreed. The Thunder have the potential to beast us if we’re not careful.
SteveW
December 30th, 2010
5:27 pm
And by beast us, I mean beat us by 25 or something. They’ve been sitting at home since the 23rd of Dec., while we’ve travelled for a back to back, then back home, then out to OKC
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
5:37 pm
Steve, IMO, we don’t have to win at OKC to have a successful road trip. The Utah game is the one that I would like to see this team play well. Utah is very comparable to our plight here in that they can never get enough horses to compete for the conference crown.
That one is a good measuring stick. We should go into that game 2-1 minimum if we just find some consistency and our bench provides a boost.
Marvin being out keeps him on this roster just that much longer.
NCBravesFan
December 30th, 2010
5:40 pm
Seems to me like there ought be to teams that LD could look to spot start Teague against – not hand him the job outright, but start him against inferior teams or when the match-up is favorable for Teague. Seems to me that since the consensus was he would have a chance to win the starting role this year there shouldn’t be any obvious team chemistry issues by sitting Bibby every now and again.
As nice a season as Bibby is having on the offensive side, no one thinks he is the long term solution at PG anymore. It’s time to let the kid have a bigger role and see what he can do.
honest_abe
December 30th, 2010
5:40 pm
can a win be disheartening? maybe i’m just getting more critical because i’ve got nothing better to do. but, i’m so sick of this team wasting possessions like its nothing. when your captains are the ones turning it over i don’t know who’s to blame. is it LD’s fault that our 120 mil dollar man throws the ball away on consecutive possessions? is it LD’s fault that josh and al continue running the break? josh is an above avg passer in the right situations but he offsets this with his boneheaded decisions. the hawks should’ve blown out the warriors last night. ellis was off, curry wasn’t 100% and they didn’t have any big men. instead they grind out another less than impressive win. keep this up and the crowds will continue to dwindle unless a “fun” and “professional” team come to town.
enough negativity.
happy new year aj, doc, ray and whoever else used to be on this thing when the hawks were a sub .500 team. we’ve come a long ways. but the blog stays the same. complain, complain, and then complain some more. (i’m the biggest culprit) goes to show you that its hard to make people happy. or people enjoy being miserable!!!! heh
go dawgs!
JeJe
December 30th, 2010
5:58 pm
2 most pathetic moments from the game last night:
1) Marvin trying to hack Amundson (I believe) and ending up on ground. ANY other player in the league would’ve taken the other player to the ground and gotten a flagrant 2 and a 1 game suspension, but MARVIN ended up on ground LOL. Softer than toilet tissue
2) Teague getting blocked on an uncontested shot. His release point is so low that he still got blocked
FIRE SUND
JeJe
December 30th, 2010
5:59 pm
LD has no rotation at all.
how the hell does Powell not play anymore? Where is Damien?
how did Teague not play in the 1st half yesterday?
The only players on the bench guaranteed ANY minutes at all are Jamal and MAYBE Mo
Najeh Davenpoop
December 30th, 2010
6:11 pm
When did they start getting Internet at the old folks’ home? First Marvin’s grandma shows up, and now Woody’s grandma is posting as “6th seed”.
It’s funny to me that some of y’all equate “LD sucks” with “Woody was better”. Give me a f-cking break. How soon we forget. All of us on these Hawks blogs have collectively written a f-cking book on Woody’s shortcomings. Now all of a sudden the Hawks are “only” winning 62% of their games despite multiple key players being injured (for comparison’s sake, they won 65% of their games last year with everyone healthy) and people want Woody back? Are you people insane? The Hawks played harder for Woody? Yeah, if four people standing around for 24 seconds watching Joe do his best and-1 moves is “playing harder” sure.
Criticize LD if you want, and there’s plenty he could be doing better, but GTFOH with this “I miss Woody” nonsense.
JeJe
December 30th, 2010
6:23 pm
GET STEVE NASH
JeJe
December 30th, 2010
6:24 pm
Najeh,
FIRE WOODY
sam'l
December 30th, 2010
6:41 pm
What trade could put the Hawks over the top? I can’t figure it out….I see a lot of speculation but nothing that good or real. I would like to think Sund is on the phone every day, searching for the missing piece, but I remember Gearon’s recent rather bland attitude. I think you have to have Gearon emotionally and personally involved in the team to make something meaningful happen.
About imploding the NBA and packing fewer teams with star players………it could make the game more exiciting. Dont’ know if Atlanta would be around after the implosion, and I’m really not convinced Miami won’t implode either.
Didn’t take Orlando long to smear San Antonio with all those new players…..they could beat Miami…
They can find trades….other teams can trade….how come the Hawks don’t. Owners aren’t personally committed. Too much time spent on one core…..no ability to imagine what could be.
Marvin Wiliams and Teague can go as far as I’m concerned. Pachulia would be long gone. heck, anyone on this club would be acceptable if a potent meaningful combination of players could be achieved. Lack of courage, common sense and intuition…….
That’s why no trades are being made even when certain players are clearly performing below potential.
Course, only an opinon, and subject to change with the next winning streak.
..
JustAThought
December 30th, 2010
6:43 pm
Hey Soulstar………….I say they blow this whole team up, and draft Mya Moore and start over! She could not possibly be any worst than the sorry-assed bunch of guys they got now. And I would be willing to bet that she would be able to sellout Phillips more consistantly. I know I would go see her play before I see the cast they got now!
JustAThought
December 30th, 2010
6:46 pm
sam………..your are talking about the asg/hawks……..so that is all you need to know as to why they don’t.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
6:50 pm
Kevin M
What are you talking about? Why would Joe need to unload his house in this market? Joe is not bankrupt and a ton of Pro Athletes have Atlanta homes just because this is a Hot City! Allen Iverson, Antoine Walker, Terrell Owens, Jerome Bettis, Tyler Perry, T.I. And that list goes into eternity!
Joe has homes in So. Beach, L.A., Atlanta and could buy 10 more anywhere he pleases. What is your point? I don’t follow …
Joe was never going to NY or anywhere else, his desire has always been to live and play in Atlanta. Obviously, that hasn’t changed.
The man said, “We have built something here in Atlanta, from nobody in the stands, from 13 wins to 53 wins. I just wanted to finish the job and bring a Championship to this city and our fans.”
Why can’t we just take him at his word, which is seldom heard.
Joe also said, “My team was struggling with Jamal out and I was shooting 200 jumpers per day with no pain. So, I returned early. The guys in this locker room just want to win.” Of course all the haters didn’t want to hear that simple truth, so they make up negative conspiracies to further the Hate Agenda.
I for one am grateful to have an entertaining and competitive team to watch.
I’ve been watching since 1986 and these fans are arrogant in the face of progress. Sure, I really dislike these owners, but I love the coach and team.
And, yes we need an upgrade of talent, badly to become elite!
This team as currently constructed will win absolutely NOTHING!
Let’s just keep it real!
JeJe
December 30th, 2010
7:25 pm
2 most pathetic moments from the game last night:
1) Marvin trying to hack Amundson (I believe) and ending up on ground. ANY other player in the league would’ve taken the other player to the ground and gotten a flagrant 2 and a 1 game suspension, but MARVIN ended up on ground LOL. Softer than toilet tissue
2) Teague getting blocked on an uncontested shot. His release point is so low that he still got blocked
FIRE SUND.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
7:31 pm
NBA Fan Voice posted this titled:
Will Howard Leave Orlando?
Dec 18, 2010 — 11:36PM, i-can-fly wrote:
“Well, consider this. Howard can opt out for 2012. If my math is correct;
Turkoglu will be making about $11 mill each year for two season after that. He will be 34 years old during 2012 FA.
Arenas will be making $20 mil per year and his contract ends the same year as Turkoglu’s. He will be 31 years old when Howard can opt out.
Nelson and Redick are making about $5 mil each, and their contracts expire in 2013.
So they already have 4 players making a total of about $41 mil when Howard is able to opt out. Assuming that he is a max player, he will combine with those 4 to put them around the luxury tax, and that is with just 5 players. Then they will be stuck with minimum contract players to fill out their roster. Considering that Turkoglu and Arenas are already well past their primes, and will probably be no more than role players by then, that isn’t a roster that can even make the playoffs.
Howard would be stupid not to leave. Their contract situation is much worse than it was before-hand. At least they could have opted out on Carter after this year.”
______________________________
Dwight makes 13.7M this year – not bad huh?
Can we get him next year for 2012?
Will ASKG consider that worthy of going into the Luxury Tax?
If we take out some garbage, maybe we won’t even need to enter the Luxury.
Samuel
December 30th, 2010
7:32 pm
Woody>LD
ANT BANKS
December 30th, 2010
7:35 pm
cosign ‘POOP!! the issues that i have with larry drew are nowhere near the issues that i had wit’ woody. every game, larry has at minimum a 9 man rotation, some games 10. i love this. keeps from burnin’ up the starters and gets bench players some burn. woody had a 7 man rotation at best and if we were playin’ a good team that ish would shrink to 6.
i will take a few losses for the sake of developin’ the bench
JeJe
December 30th, 2010
7:45 pm
Well, with the Van Exel issue in the air, there goes Teague’s playing
ANT BANKS
December 30th, 2010
7:46 pm
SAM,
if you gone say woody> larry drew. you need to explain that ish for slow peeps like me.
Fundamentals
December 30th, 2010
7:56 pm
Key to the OKC win will be tight D and strong rebounding. We can’t get into a “shotmaking” exhibition. They beat us at it every time.
Watching the ORL/NYK game. Still loving Ryan Anderson’s game. Is there a way to snag he and say Duhon or Orton for ZaZa? Duhon isn’t fitting in in ORL and Arenas will only put more pressure on ORL to need to deal Duhon or Williams to gt that big man. Duhon has struggled, but he’s known as a good defender and has PG skills.
Blast
December 30th, 2010
8:05 pm
All y’all Hawks fans mad crazy, yo. Hawks lose, you complain. Hawks win, you complain even more. Gosh! I guess it will only take a Hawks championship win to make y’all happy.
And stop with this Woody better than LD crap. If he was, he would still be coaching the team. As it is, Woody is still jobless. Maybe ESPN or NBATV will give him a studio job. Those folks are adept at stealing Hawks broadcasting talents, anyway.
I didn’t like the hire when it happened, but Drew has proved he is a way better coach than Woody. Woody stuck with his line up for years regardless of the opponent. Drew has shown he is ready to mix it up depending on match ups. Switching at every single play is gone for the most part, since Drew mandates that every man account for his man. Hawks are not so iso dependent anymore, leading to Al and Josh touching and scoring the ball more. Joe scored 16 last night and Hawks still beat GS by 10. That means versatility and balanced scoring. That means good coaching who insisted the team continue to pound the ball inside, and take advantage of their bigger frontline. I don’t remember Woody making too many in game adjustments.
And Drew will bench Josh any second he steps out of line and is only jacking up jumpers. Woody never had the nerve to bench anybody.
Drew has accomplished just about the same as Woody in as many games, even through injuries Woody never never had to deal with in the first quarter of the season. So anybody who say Woody is better and even remotely suggests bringing him back is smoking some ice age crack!
Under Woody, Orlando was Hawks biggest nemesis in the East. Under Drew, Hawks have beaten Orlando twice. Now, it flips with Boston who has had Hawks number this year, but that is bound to change.
To me, Hawks will not win a championship this year and I can live with that. They do not have the payroll or personnel the elite teams do, all I want from them is to have as great a regular season as possible and make a good accounting in the playoffs. Never know what will happen then if they do.
So if you are a Hawks fan and expect super greatness from them, you had better think again, and if that is not good enough for you, then I suggest you find another team to follow.
2 more techs and Howard starts sitting. He is the current age Rasheed Wallace!
Blast
December 30th, 2010
8:07 pm
On this upcoming road trip in the West, I expect Hawks to go 2-2 at the worst. Utah and OKC should be their bigger challenges. Hawks did not beat OKC last year, so they are always a challenge and we all know what Utah can do. So I wait with baited breath till tomorrow.
Blast
December 30th, 2010
8:12 pm
Why would a free throw shooter take 10 freaking seconds to shoot a free throw? Good free throw shooters do not require that long.
Looking at Orlando tonight, it just illustrates how dependent on the 3 ball they are. So if the 3 ball is not stroking or are been contested hotly, where does that leave Orlando? How many dunks can Howard have to win the game for you?
Fundamentals
December 30th, 2010
8:16 pm
Blast – I like Drew and I recognize we need some tweeks to the roster to expect much in terms of playoff success. LD has to find a way to make ZaZa and Teague more dependable to put us over the top. Fans will be fans. They’ll be frustrated, fickle, or opinionated. It doesn’t mean they don’t love their team.
Orlando isn’t the same as last year. Outside of those wins we really haven’t competed against elite teams. Is LD the reason for that…no – it’s the players ability to mentally withstand the storm and close out. Thus far we’ve faltered as a team at crunch time. Woodson rode his ponies to many clutch wins. LD has to figure out how to do that. That’ll take time. Hopefully we’ll begin to see that soon. If this team could gel just after the All Star break we’d be very competitive. A few tweeks to bring in a good post defender and PG we’d be scary.
LD needs time and a few pieces. That’s obvious to everyone but ASG/Sund.
KevinM
December 30th, 2010
8:43 pm
DMB, all I was saying is that Joe made a financial decision and one he couldn’t get elsewhere. Joe isn’t buying $15M houses is cities he doesn’t play in. Its the same as Kevin Martin of the Kings dumping his house in Sacarmento now that he plays in Houston. He isn’t going to get any value so he lets it go and takes away his burden. I say Joe stayed because he couldn’t have a better setup anywhere else.
The problem is Sund has come out and told us that we are going to go as far as Joe takes us. Now you take that any way you want. Joe isn’t leading this team any further than where they have gotten. He does not create mismatch problems and he isn’t unstoppable. Plenty of playoff stats to back up this argument.
You cannot dispute that Joe isn’t a Number 1 option for a championship team. His contract is going to hurt this franchise more than any other contract ever signed by this team, and that goes past the inept Jon Koncak, who stole money the minute he signed his big deal….which by the way is what Joe spends on a pad in another city.
This team has lots of talent, but they also have lots of limitations. This roster needs an influx of superstar talent at one of the weak positions. We have the 2 and 4 slots in place. That’s it.
You continue to hope for this team to finally flip the switch but in the meanwhile the CBA is a threat to the survival of the league and the way we know the NBA as it is today. Lots of open ended agendas to be resolved.
The only good thing the city of Atlanta has is that it stays within the league’s salary structure and that should help them going forward. But if they wanted to add a big piece to help the core, they would have to take away possbily the depth they do have at any position.
LD is working with what he has to work with. He’s not getting any more help any time soon. Beating Boston, Miami and Orlando is still a tall task for the core. It’s hard to be convinced that there is enough talent here to achieve those high reaches.
Blast
December 30th, 2010
8:50 pm
Fund,
Truth is I would love to see the Hawks make a trade or two, since I agree that they are not competent enough. But the ASG is commited to staying under the cap. And no way you can win in the NBA if you do not spend money. The Spurs used to be one team that won without going over the limit, but even these days, they have to pay to win.
Fundamentals
December 30th, 2010
8:58 pm
Everyone keeps harping for a big time player. I honestly think that’d do more to wreck chemistry. We already don’t have enough balls go around. We need a solid PG who can defend, penetrate and hit the open jumper enough to keep teams honest. We need a decent defending big man, similar to Collins in a sense. Someone who can be counted on to help Horford against really big C’s. There are plenty of available deals around for the money we have to trade. JC1, ZaZa and Mo are plenty. You could use the TPE, Marvin, JC2, Teague ect to really make moves. Being stuck with the core doesn’t mean you can’t make moves. Folks just have to look for what’s available. I honestly think the Feb waiver wire will be full of talent w/teams not going anywhere dropping pieces. Expirings will have value. We have several key ones to use.
Fundamentals
December 30th, 2010
8:59 pm
Amen to the Spurs for maximizing talent, finding picks and making the best of a tight budget…at least until lately…but they too have held on to an aging core for a long time too. I can dream, but I doubt our core will have 4 rings before they are too old.
O'Brien
December 30th, 2010
9:08 pm
My thoughts and prayers go out to the Van Exel family, and the family of the deceased person.
As for LD vs Woody, people need to keep in mind that last year, the Hawks were the healthiest team in the NBA, and they won 53 games.
This year, some say the East have improved, and JJ, Jamal, Marvin, and Mo Evans have all missed multiple games, but yet they are almost on a 53 win pace.
Meanwhile, Magic up on Orlando. I think once Orlando trades for a legit backup Center (which I think they will), they will be tough to beat.
Fundamentals
December 30th, 2010
9:38 pm
Terrible news for Van Exel, his family and the family of Bradley Bassey Eyo. Please pray for all of them.
I’m not in panic mode O’Brien, but I do hope ASG and Sund are looking for ways to improve this team. I hope Marvin can get better soon as he was finally finding his niche. We have the ability to make a run if we can find the right pieces.
All I want is the team to play TEAM ball and give it their all. We haven’t gotten that in the past 2 post seasons. We’ve played like we were satisfied to meet expectations…and we did.
It’s time to up the anty. We can achieve more.
doc
December 30th, 2010
9:49 pm
honest cool to see you around occasionally, man those were the dreary days.
good crew to carry on here at the liar’s table, the core here has grown for sure.
Samuel
December 30th, 2010
9:56 pm
The only thing that counts. Record and seeding and by that comparison Woody>LD. All that other talk means nothing. We have advanced to the second round in the last couple of years with 2nd round talent. This year, we still have 2nd round talent but i’m not so sure we even make the second round. We had two players make the Allstar team and another 6MOY. This year we’ll be lucky to have one. The last few years, everybody feared coming to our place to play. This year, not so. Need I go on?
hawkfan
December 30th, 2010
10:00 pm
haha a VAUGHN sighting
hawkfan
December 30th, 2010
10:07 pm
looking at this mavs-spurs game shows how fast these 2 teams pace are compared to us which does not make sense due to our athleticism, our team is even younger than both of these teams but even kidd is running way faster than bibby could and making us look old and slow
Fundamentals
December 30th, 2010
10:08 pm
I can agree to all you’ve just said Samuel at 9:56, but we can’t truly judge the accomplishments of a season until the season is done. If LD just wins one game in the 2nd round it’ll be better than all those accomplishments. As of yet, the team hasn’t gelled, the lineups aren’t set and players haven’t grown into their positions. Hopefully it’ll happen in time, but till they’re booted from the playoffs we can’t make that call.
doc
December 30th, 2010
10:34 pm
samuel, it is hard to say that LD is not holding his own in comparison to woody. woody had a golden year with no injuries last year of note. when LD came on board, i said right then that he would not be blessed with the lack of injury so comprisions would be difficult especially if he didnt “match up” record wise with woody over the long haul. you can say what you want but the data in thus far shows he matches up well with woody even in the face of adversity that woody didnt have to face last year since the record at this juncture is only off by one game.
he has also come up with formula’s to negate some of our greatest adversaries in the magic. yes, the heat will not be approachable in the long run nor will the celts as they retooled well in the off season along with the knicks and bulls so he may not finish as high. that is the problem of the askg not LD who has to run with the same lack of horses that woody had. i would suggest you aim higher and you might get the true target that holds us back in “my boy rick” and the askg that folded the tent when the three musketeers went south, uh to south beach that is.
your continued nit picking on LD really is unfounded and shallow as he has done a quite capable job. i am not one to think we should have hired him and it was another one of those misjudgments that may work out in the end that the askg are known. only the problem is not LD nor was it probably woody. however. i do admire some of the things LD has achieved though you continue to look beyond them because of your bias that isnt rational or the loyalty to your own ego.
you are deceiving yourself if you think we have second round talent with the ascension of the knicks and bulls. not sure why you say it, as you would argue otherwise for it usually and have before and to argue otherwise again takes you away from the culprits that continue to hold fist to making change because they dont want to spend or an inane loyalty to the core and its surrounding parts they put with it. shaq is an example we both decry of the lack of action the askg needed to take to build a true competitor.
happy new year, glad you got back safe and sound from mississippi and your boy monta is delivering.
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
10:48 pm
When you watch San Antonio play, you can’t help but be a fan of their professionalism. Out of all of the year SAS have been winning, why is it that the Hawks have never interviewed any of their assistants for head coaching position here? Watching the Spurs, makes me wonder how T. Corbin from Utah would’ve done here.
Samuel
December 30th, 2010
10:50 pm
Somebody said LD was a better coach than Woody, I just gave you proof. Second round talent meaning we have enough to make it to the second round, not enough to win it.
I never said LD hasn’t done a capable job. I said he wasn’t as good as Woody. Doc, why is it when we “happen” to accomplish something such as a relatively injury free season, it’s in spite of Woody yet when it negative, he was the reason. Injuries are no scapegoat as far as i’m concerned. We’re not the only team who has them, so it evens out. Bottom line is if we finish with a worse record, fail to win home court in the first round and lose. The Hawks took a step backwards.
On the flip side, if LD can push the guys beyond what we’ve accomplished under Woody, i’ll concede that it was the right move. I just don’t concede to talk. Results are what matter.
Sure, Rick and the ASG are cheep Good Ole Boys who are afraid to step out on any kind of a limb and get some players in here who can take us to the next level. We are definitely in agreement there. Mississippi was great and Monta Ellis kinda disappointed me against the Hawks but he’s still having a decent year for a 2nd round pick. He and Big Al deserves to make the AllStar team but probably won’t. Mississippi is always underrated and disrespected, but OH WELL.
Samuel
December 30th, 2010
11:06 pm
Doc, I though that’s what this blog was for, nitpicking. Why else do we have a blog. Am I the only one nitpicking here? Have yall not nitpicked the last few years despite the most successful teams in over a decade.
Ramon
December 30th, 2010
11:23 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/12/30/1980s.nba/index.html
O'Brien
December 30th, 2010
11:36 pm
LD said he always liked Monta Ellis. I wonder if he suggested BK draft Salim instead of Monta, or if he even got a chance to offer his opinion.
Samuel,
If the Hawks are healthy going into the playoffs, then I expect LD and the Hawks to have at least 1 second round win. If they lose in the first round, or get swept in the second round, then it will be a major disappointment.
And if that happens, then LD will be on the hot-seat next season. Time will tell.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 30th, 2010
11:50 pm
Kevin M
Thank You for that feed back and intelligent response up there. I wasn’t quite sure what you were saying. I for one never believed Joe was interested in NY. Too laid back for The Big City Lights! LOL!
I never really saw a team that he would go to. Change for the sake of change is rarely made. There usually is some underlying issues that prompt most people to upset the apple cart and relocate. I guess employment opportunity would top that list though.
Anyway, nice response. Thanks again.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 30th, 2010
11:50 pm
“When you watch San Antonio play, you can’t help but be a fan of their professionalism. Out of all of the year SAS have been winning, why is it that the Hawks have never interviewed any of their assistants for head coaching position here? ”
Then again, Mike Brown was a Spurs assistant, and the Cavs with Brown had almost the exact same problems as the Hawks with Woody, especially when it comes to offense.
Clyde
December 30th, 2010
11:51 pm
Marvin is out. I wonder if Drew will let Jordan Crawford dress for the game.
Fire Sund
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
12:02 am
“And if that happens, then LD will be on the hot-seat next season. Time will tell”
At what point will Sund, ASKG and The Core be on that Hot-Seat?
If you have two different coaches, same players and same results?
Shouldn’t you look at the players and who put them there?
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
12:06 am
Wouldn’t the coaches become the variables and the players the constant in that equation. You can’t cook steaks if all you have is ham.
Aye Sund! Fix your team!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
12:13 am
Clyde
I think Drew will suit up Jordan. You can only dress 12 players maximum per game. Hopefully, Jordan will get a crack in the rotation to run & shoot.
Ha Ha! That reminds me of the Jerry Glanville Falcons:
The Red Gun Offense. Jordan can definitely fill up the bucket.
High volume scorer, he also had 8 assists that last pre-season game to go wiÞh his 30 pts.
Marvin’s injury will be a blessing for the other guys to play.
O'Brien
December 31st, 2010
12:44 am
it was not a bad pick,
I liked the Salim pick because I thought he could be our Eddie House. And I dont think Woody used him the right way.
However, the biggest reason for Salim not working out with the Hawks was Salim himself (imo).
He had horrible shot selection, and he never seemed to make the effort to improve defensively. Basically, he was too short to play SG, and he wasn’t able to play PG good enough (offensively or defensively).
He had a brief tryout with the Spurs and Bucks after leaving the Hawks, but why is it that he hasn’t found a team to pick him up and give him PT?
I also liked Acie Law, and I dont think Woody helped him as much as he could. But just like Salim, the biggest problem was Acie himself and injuries (imo).
Whenever he was playing well, he would get hurt. And then he wasn’t the same player he was in college.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
12:49 am
Bad Pick!
Just Shut-Up!
I don’t read your stuff, so please scroll past my stuff.
I don’t engage weird named bloggers with all that foolishness and stupidity.
___________________________
Anyway, TNT is off the chain tonight. Great debates going on with Chuck and Webber. Kenny Smith strolled in late and he is drunk, no telling what he was doing in the parking lot. LOL!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
1:50 am
Ramon dear,
Check out this hoopshype rumor, it kind of touched on my thinking earlier re: The Bobcats and what they are trying to do before and after Larry Brown is the real trigger in this conversation as was mine earlier:
“Exploratory trade talks the Trail Blazers are involved in on multiple fronts hinge on what decision is made with regard to Brandon Roy’s short- and long-term health. Team officials already have engaged in internal discussions about trading older players such as Marcus Camby, Andre Miller and Joel Przybilla. CBSSports.com
Portland Trail Blazers, Trade, Andre Miller, Brandon Roy, Joel Przybilla, Marcus Camby | share 
One scenario involved Miller going to the Bobcats, but those talks took place prior to Charlotte’s recent coaching change. The Bobcats now are entering a new evaluation period under coach Paul Silas and have no current interest in straight salary-dump trades. “That’s the furthest thing from the truth,” one source said. “We want to do basketball deals if we can.” CBSSports.com
______________________________
As I was saying to you earlier, MJ has moved in another direction entirely since parting with Larry Brown, who was identified to be the root of their team chemistry issues and player performances.
O'Brien
December 31st, 2010
2:38 am
Where do the Spurs find these guys? They signed a 26 year old undrafted guy who played in Turkey etc, and he is averaging 8 points off the bench. Gary Neal.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 31st, 2010
3:58 am
The same way the Patriots find random players — institute a system that works, and then go find players who can fill roles within that system.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 31st, 2010
3:59 am
It really just comes down to coaching. Great coaches can make that happen. Gregg Popovich is a great coach.
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 31st, 2010
4:11 am
anybody hear about van exel’s son confessing to murder???
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhgacr0973PKud5N6T
Ramon
December 31st, 2010
4:13 am
Drmaryb, thanks for the article. Too bad Sund didn’t make any deals with them before Brown left.
darrell starks
December 31st, 2010
7:00 am
Can the hawks get monta ? MONTA FOR BIBBY, MARVIN AND A 1ST
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
MsDee
December 31st, 2010
7:02 am
Monta Ellis would be JUST WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED!!…Make it happen Sund!!
darrell starks
December 31st, 2010
7:13 am
STARTER MONTA, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS.
BENCH TEAGUE, JAMAL, DAMIEN, POWELL, ZAZA.
RESERVE MOE, JC2
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 31st, 2010
7:17 am
JAMAL 10MILL WILL COME OF THE BOOKS NEXT YEAR AND SUPER MAN WILL COME BACK HOME, AS RUMORS HAS IT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 31st, 2010
7:19 am
2012 STARTER MONTA, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, SUPERMAN.
The heat won’t have a chance, 5 nba title for the hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Jamilliondadon
December 31st, 2010
7:37 am
No sixth seed . Last year team wasn’t better, nor was the coaching better. The fact is the east has gotten better
JoJo the Godfather
December 31st, 2010
7:45 am
Jeff Teague’s December stats:
12.9 mpg, 47% from field, 50% from 3, 76% from line
5.1 pts, 2.3 assts, 2.1 rebs, .5 stls, .4 blocks, .9 tos
Keep working hard Jeff…Your time is coming.
Jamillion
December 31st, 2010
8:09 am
For yall who say the hawks are unbalanced cause we don’t have a all star point or center look at the heat
JeJe
December 31st, 2010
9:24 am
The Hawks DO have an All Star Center
LOL @ people wanting Jordan Crawford to play so badly. What part of his one-dimensional shooting and awful decision making impresses you? His shots don’t even go down when he plays
JeJe
December 31st, 2010
9:31 am
Every time a Celtics player gets injured, Ainge is on the radio the next day describing the energy.
We don’t even find out about our players’ injuries until it’s too late.
FIRE SUND
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
9:31 am
I don’t do trade scenarios, never have. Not my thing. You got to see Grand-Daddy and Ramon for all the trade machine stuff. I just keep it real and on Basketball topics – round here.
Sighs ..
Happy New Year to all the great bloggers!
Be Safe and Have Fun!
Ramon
December 31st, 2010
10:51 am
Question: If the Hawks would’ve signed Shaq, would our record be better, worse or the same now?
JeJe
December 31st, 2010
11:44 am
2 most pathetic moments from the game 2 days ago:
1) Marvin trying to hack Amundson (I believe) and ending up on ground. ANY other player in the league would’ve taken the other player to the ground and gotten a flagrant 2 and a 1 game suspension, but MARVIN ended up on ground LOL. Softer than toilet tissue
2) Teague getting blocked on an uncontested shot. His release point is so low that he still got blocked
FIRE SUND
Alfred H.
December 31st, 2010
12:34 pm
I have come to the conclusion that this team now belongs to Al Horford. He brings Leaderships and he’s consistent unlike Joe Johnson.
Rev in Tampa
December 31st, 2010
1:34 pm
Ramon,
First of all, I have really enjoyed your posts lately. Thanks for keeping it lively on the blog.
Second, I do believe that Shaq would have helped the Hawks to a better record thus far in the season. Although I don’t think he would have been enough to push us into an elite status. The best thing he could have done for us, if he started, was push Marvin to the bench more than he has been this season.
However, I think that Jason Collins is proving to be better than any of us could have foreseen. He has been that big presence that we were looking for when Shaq was available.
The Hawks are more needy at the pg and sf positions because of Collins improvement.
O'Brien
December 31st, 2010
1:35 pm
Ramon,
I think our record would probably be a game or 2 better (if we had signed Shaq). But Shaq would have helped in the playoffs.
However, one of the biggest ways in which Shaq would have helped if we signed him, is because we would have kept him away from Boston.
Imagine if Boston did not have his 10 pts and 6 rebounds to fill in for Perkins, especially with JO injured? I dont think Boston’s record would have been as good as it is.
Rev in Tampa
December 31st, 2010
1:35 pm
JeJe,
Why are you reposting stuff that you have posted on multiple days? It is just cluttering up the conversation.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 31st, 2010
1:47 pm
Referee Rev!
I love it! Law and Order on the blog. LOL
Rev I agree with your Shaq assessment, he would have helped on and off the court, don’t forget ticket sales too. But, Collins has been outstanding!
OBrien
Co-Sign. Maybe 2 games better, he has been a little injured to, but Shaq would have been huge in the post season and kept away from our nemesis – Boston.
Jason Collins looks rejuvenated and lively in our post. Very intelligent young man. Great Size. Zsa had a nice game last time out to, I really like ZaZa when he plays like that, he is our best offensive rebounder and a deft passer too.
Za just needs to work on his low post moves for lay-ups, put backs, a hook shot
and some dunks would make him awesome. That close in he should never lay it up, dunk that thing Za!
Big Ump
December 31st, 2010
1:57 pm
drmaryb:
I wish you Happy Holidays and a Happy New year.. lso like to wish everyone else also.
Samuel;
I agree totally with that last post 0n 12/30. It’s funny that they did the same things that they accuse you of but now it’s different? What a spin.
Ken Strickland
December 31st, 2010
2:53 pm
SAMUEL-If all that matters are wins and seeding, as you say, then explain why the #4 seeded Celtics made it to the NBA finals instead of the #1 seeded Cavaliers(61-21), #2 seeded Magic(59-23), or #3 seeded Hawks(53-29). How do you explain the Lakers(57-25)winning it all, even though the Cavaliers(61-21)and Magic(59-23), who had better records and higher overall seeding, couldn’t get past the Celtics, who had fewer wins and a lower seeding?
Based on your analogy, you’re saying you’d rather be the Cavaliers, who had the NBA’s best record and top seed, than the Celtics, who had the Eastern Conference’s 4th best record and seed, and who defeated the NBA’s top 2 seeded teams. And they almost defeated the Lakers, who had a higher seed and better won/loss record, for the NBA title?
Sometimes you make comments that make no sense.
SteveW
December 31st, 2010
3:25 pm
KenS – And if Perkins doesn’t go down with that knee injury in game 6, the Celts may have won game 7.
And I agree totally with you. Give me an 8th seed that wins it all, rather than a top seed that doesn’t.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 31st, 2010
3:59 pm
To follow up on Ken Strickland’s post, I know you are the driver of the (very empty) Woody bandwagon Samuel, but surely even you can admit that the East is stronger this year. Woody’s Hawks never had to face the Bulls with Boozer, the Knicks with Amare, or the Unholy Trinity in Miami. LD’s Hawks are one game off last year’s pace despite being significantly more injured and playing in a tougher division and conference. Certainly can’t say from that evidence that LD has been worse than Woody.
northcyde
December 31st, 2010
4:07 pm
Ken . . . it’s your analogy that doesn’t make sense. This time last year, it was BOSTON, not Cleveland, that was the top team in the East.
It wasn’t until the KG injury that Boston started to fall off. Then when he came back and got himself to full strength, they started to roll again.
Seeding matters, and you guys know it. Very rarely does a seed lower than #4 make any type of noise in the playoffs.
People act like the Hawks can just experiment and coast through the season, and just turn it on in the playoffs . . even if we don’t have home court advantage in a series.
What evidence is there that this team can do that? Other than wishful thinking?
You guys fail everytime you give that Boston example, knowing that injuries derailed their season and knowing that Boston is a recent battle tested NBA champion.
If the Hawks don’t have home court advantage in a series, we are in serious trouble. A 5th or 6th seeded Hawks team is in grave danger of being one and done.
northcyde
December 31st, 2010
4:29 pm
My bad . . this time last year the Cavs were 26 – 8 . . . Boston was 25 – 8 ( and this was after Boston lost 3 straight games, with 2 of those losses being @ Orlando and @ LA Lakers )
So right before Christmas, Boston was the best team in the league with a 25 – 5 record. That means Boston went 25 – 27 to finish the year. It’s a reason why that team posted a sub .500 record.
Don’t ever act like we’re Boston . . a team that knows how to turn it on when healthy. Ish . . we still have random problems with “energy” on a game to game basis.
It is highly important that you guys “keep it real” with these convos.
As for who is the better coach? Drew has a better offensive mind. Woody has a better defensive mind. Under Woody, a guy like Damien Wilkins would be beloved by him.
I could even see Woody trying to play Damien at the point, for defensive purposes, instead of giving Teague a chance to really prove himself.
If Drew is the better coach, it’s not by much at all. It’ll be like Woody being a C coach . . and drew a C+ coach.
O'Brien
December 31st, 2010
5:33 pm
Samuel,
Under Woody, we had been swept in the second round 2 years in a row. So why not make a change and see if a new coach can help us win a couple games in the second round?
I’m not sure LD was the right choice. However, a change needed to be made, because Woody had reached his limit. It wasnt all his fault, but its always easier to change coaches.
Ken,
Is there anything in the Hawks DNA to suggest that they are mentally tough enough to win a playoff series if they dont have homecourt advantage?
After starting 5-1 on the road, the Hawks have gone 4-7. And they have lost most of the games against teams that are over .500. I know the Lakers have lost games against good teams too, but as northcyde said, they are battle tested (just like Boston).
With these Hawks, they are a mentally weak team, and only time will tell if LD can help them get over the hump.
Rev in Tampa
December 31st, 2010
5:52 pm
Enter your comments here
Worldwide Clyde
December 31st, 2010
6:19 pm
O’brien a we needed a new coach but the changes should not have ended there. We also need new owners that are dedicated to winning championships, a new point guard, and a center.
doc
December 31st, 2010
6:24 pm
boston was the best team on the road last year on the league. if i remember their road record was as good as their home record. they were able to take that into the post seasn and continue to hold their own.
Samuel
December 31st, 2010
6:45 pm
Ken,
Again you can spin it any way you like. Again, comparing Boston and the Lakers to the Hawks is wishful thinking but hey, whatever. You don’t need to convince me, my mind is made up until I see otherwise. I say we have enough talent to make the playoffs and possibly win the first round. You say we can win it all. OK, way to be optimistic.
Samuel
December 31st, 2010
7:05 pm
Naje,
The East is basically like it was last year. Last year you had three teams with a realistic chance of winning it all. Boston, Cleveland and Orlando. The other playoff teams had “zero” chance. This year you have three with a realistic chance. Miami, Boston and Orlando. The other playoff teams: Chicago, the Hawks and the Knicks are basically on the same level. The winner will probably come down to who wins home court advantage. So, has it really changed.
SteveW
December 31st, 2010
7:19 pm
‘07 – 3rd seeded San Antonio defeats 2nd seeded Cavs for the NBA title
‘06 – 2nd seeded Miami defeats 4th seed Mavs
‘05 – 2nd seed San Antonio defeats 2nd seed Pistons
‘04 – 3rd seed Detroit defeats 2nd seed Lakers
‘03 – 1st seed San Antonio defeats 2nd seed NJ
‘02 – 3rd seed Lakers defeated 1st seed NJ
So it does seem at least in the Finals, being one of the top 4 seeds is a prerequisite.
SteveW
December 31st, 2010
7:23 pm
The last 2 years you’ve had the #1 seed in the West against the #3 (Orl) and #4 (Boston) seed in the East
In ‘08 it was #1 versus #1 – Only time that’s happened in a long time.
Now in the lower rounds, teams without the HC advantage routinely beat the team with the KC advantage. But to make it to the Finals, recent history shows a top 4 is nearly essential.
SteveW
December 31st, 2010
7:25 pm
If the playoffs were today, we would play the Magic in the 1st round, with Orlando with the HC advantage.
Samuel
December 31st, 2010
7:44 pm
Steve,
All those teams had at least two Hall of Fame Players and a Hall of Fame coach. Hawks have neither.