Atlanta Hawks: On Drew and Teague

nice mc, nice.

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fine blogging mc

i’d rather have teague attempt dunks, floaters and layups while he works on his jumper than Bibby and Jamal hoisting jumpers together, ruining the flow of the offense and not changing the pace of the game or playing D.

I mean, if he sucks, bench him. But i think he’s deserved a shot to at least break the rotation. What are Mo, Zaza and others doing that he cannot?

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what difference will a few loses make, we are going to be a 4,5,6 seed anyway? play this guy and see if he is the deal or not. bibby’s days are numbered. let’s be real, this season is a transition year (again) so we might as well work for the future. let’s season the kid up or let him prove he isn’t the answer. Sund needs to demand this. LD like Woody is playing for today. Guys look who is ahead of us. We ain’t overcoming Miami or Boston.

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LD has no idea what he’s talking about.

He tries to mask all the complaints by making incredibly vague comments, hoping we’ll bite on them

WTF does “We try and disguise some things to not have him as involved.” in regards to Bibby? The dude sucks. He’s old, he’s fat as hell (HE DOES NOT USE HIS MUSCULARITY OR SIZE TO HIS ADVANTAGE. IT HAS RESULTED IN HIS DOWNFALL)

GET MONTA ELLIS

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Ramon- the Bulls had BJ Armstrong, John Paxon and Steve Kerr.

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It is incredible that the bench guys/ scrubs/ low round draft picks are all these All Stars just waiting to happen if only they got more “burn”, or that Rick Sund doesn’t just pluck a star in the making rookie off another team right now. I mean why not just get Tony Parker for Jeff Teague play Damian at the 2 and Jordan Crawford at the 3 and we will win 60+ games and make the finals.

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Teague must really suck in practice. There’s no other reason that mini-me washed up lard should still be a starter in this league.

Bottom 3 starting PG
Worst defensive PG in NBA

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Daniel, no one is saying that. But your bench players are there for situational purposes. When you’re playing a quick point guard, there’s NO excuse aside from injury not to give your best defensive PG at least 3 minutes of playing time to see if he can stay in front of the player. Also who can’t see in the last 3 weeks Wilkins played more efficiently than Mo Evans? Name one starting PG in the East that you would take Bibby over on DEFENSE. Now name five starting PGs in the East who penetrates worse than Bibby.

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Lol, Daniel, I would think so. Collins is better because he’s actually in shape. Josh is happier because Woody was just a prick, lol. But as you said the same problems still exist. The first and fourth quarters still remain the Hawks worst statistical quarters. Almost as if the Hawks need to scrimmage 5 minutes before every game to already have their blood going.

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Jeje, I don’t know if its Teague really sucks in practice. Because if you look at the players (Al, Josh, Marvin) they seem to light up when Teague comes in the game.

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Daniel, didn’t Pippen and MJ always guard the opposing PG?

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“Since L.D.’s actions with Teague don’t always match his words”, translation. LD lies a lot.

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Ramon- I am not say Bibby is the answer at the PG position, but this team is not constructed to be PG driven anyway with ball handlers and playmakers all over the floor (Remember the “motion offense”). The real remaining issue is that we don’t have a true A level player at any position. We have a couple of B+ (Horford/ Joe (?) a B with A flashes but C flashes too (Smith), a slightly better than average bench. A coach who is clearly in over his head, and a team who is settling into being solidly decent but never great. Bibby or Teague are not going to change any of those issues. I know we all wish Teague would become Rondo, but I can wish my Camry was and Audi A6 but it ain’t going to happen.

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Samuel- that is definitely one way to take it. Or it could be LD doesn’t really have a plan and just goes with it on the fly. Or LD doesn’t have a big picture direction. Or LD is like the Wizard of OZ, look at the shiny “motion offense” don’t look at how the team responds to me or my decisions.

Ramon- Woody may have been a prick (but the team was better with him as HC, YES! I said it.)
Not saying I want Woody back, but Larry Drew? c’mon man he didn’t even do a good job as an assistant.

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MC,

Thanks for pressing this issue with the Coach. I kept thinking there had to be a very good reason behind the scenes why Teague wasn’t getting any time since Drew laid out the challenge to take the pg spot back in the summer. But it sounds like there is no real good reason.

I was as impressed as anybody with Bibby’s deadeye 3pt shooting, but when we had a 9 point lead to protect in New Orleans we didn’t need more jumpshooting; we needed some perimeter defense. I am still looking for an answer for why Teague stayed on the bench, but I am now certain an answer will not be forthcoming.

Now that Teague is making consistent strides from game to game, especially since Bibby’s legs need rest, Teague needs to be slotted into the role.

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@MC

You need to remind LD that the Celtics won a championship with Rondo at the PG and Perkins at the center…. 2 none offensive players. He needs to get over the Teague’s offense, because his defensive is worth probably 5pts a game

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“Has any team ever went to the Finals with a starting PG as limited defensively as Bibby or JC1″
Steve Kerr in Chicago…

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Fundamentals- Because Larry Drew does NOT have a big picture game plan for this team. He is just playing caretaker.

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I think that is the real point of MC’s discussion with Drew. The issue to me isn’t how good is Teague or how bad is Bibby (etc.). The truth being Teague isn’t as good as we hope and Bibby isn’t as bad as we fear. The issue remains that LD doesn’t have any kind of consistent game plan or goal! The issue of Teague’s development (or lack thereof) is just a perfect example of it.

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Great write up MC……. I was saying the other day that it seems as if LD is pulling a Woodson and trying to win as many games as possible and not doing the other things he said he would do when given the job……Teague might not be the shot maker Bibby is but he is a better defender and he drives to the hole and draws fouls…As someone said earlier, even with Bibby and Jamal knocking down shots they give it right back up on the defensive end…..I don’t see how he can talk about being better defensively and constantly play your worst perimeter defenders in crucial situations…What is going on with Damien? He was playing some solid defense and made a lot of hustle plays when given minutes now he isn’t playing nor is Josh Powell. LD looks a lot like Woodson out there in many ways.

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Who here thinks it’s good idea to pursue McGhee w/ Crawford’s expiring?

What about Blatche or Hinrich?

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Fire Larry Drew, Teague should be getting 48mins of playing time.

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“He vs. Mike on the floor, obviously Mike is a shotmaker and you give that up. It’s tic for tac. ”

I prefer Binaca myself.

Great post, though. Nice to have an idea of what LD is thinking.

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“Shoot, it makes me wonder how willing he’d be to stick with the promising “big” lineup if Twin were a young guy. Would it just mean more Etan Thomas?”

I don’t know if any young post player comes into the league understanding as much about post defense as Collins does, so I think it’s kind of a moot point.

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JC2 is another chapter in how the Hawks fail to develop talent. The kid hasn’t hurt our W/L record one bit when he’s in. A few times he was the catalyst to a win. Why he gets DNP’d is beyond me. He should’ve at least got 4-5 minutes last night in the 1st half. To get no run is senseless, especially if you’re running Mo instead. We know what Mo has. We know what he can bring. We know Mo needs to recover. We know Sund won’t be trading for anyone – so WHY NOT develop the kid.

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“I agree with Collins now starting, the hawks have a good mix of role players and go to men, but no way Josh should be starting over Marvin..i never seen a former #2 pick having to play second fiddle to just a solid player…”

So what your saying is that a guy, (Josh Smith) who has better career numbers in every category, PPG, RPG, APG, FG%, MPG, BPG, SPG, except for 3 point percentage and free throw percentage, was voted as the second best defensive player in the league last year, never gets hurt, and has arguably been the second best player on this team for the last couple of years, should come off the bench behind a guy who has a history of injury, disappears in the vast majority of his games played, does not play with any intensity, and is worse in almost all statistical categories? What if you did your job for 5 straight years, and were better than they guy next to you for 5 years, and then he had a two to three week period, where he produced better than you. Should he get a promotion over you? Think before you type. If you like Marvin’s game, cool, but stop trying to discredit Josh with Marvin. The two players are not even in the same hemisphere offensively or defensively.

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JeJe – can’t a dude’s grandmother show some undying love for her grandkid? It’s Christmas already. Give her a break. She love’s Marvin…and he’s actually doing good.

I think some good old fashion competition would make both Smoove and Marvin better. Bring a big C option so we can have them competing for minutes each night. Seems to wake up Marvin & Smoove needs a head check lately.

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Damn, Fundamentals @6:41 beat me to it.

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To me it seems that Marvin and Teague are negatively affected by Jamal and Mo getting minutes as “shotmakers”, only problem is they have no real upside for development, nor do they play defense. Why not try to improve? We know what Jamal & Mo can bring. Risk a few wins to see what Teague and JC2 can bring.

Why bring Damien here if we aren’t going to use him?

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Thanks Jeje,

Did not know that there was a new blog up.

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MARVIN IS NO LONGER THE PROBLEM. IF HE COMES OFF THE BENCH WITH ANGER AND INTENSITY, HE WILL BE FINE. OF COURSE THIS WON’T ERASE HIS LAST 5 YEARS OF USELESSNESS, BUT HE IS A GOOD FIT OFF THE BENCH

THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM IS MIKE MINIME BIBBY.

AS KEN SAID, HIS SHOOTING DOES NOT OFFSET HIS EGREGIOUS DEFENSIVE INEFFICIENCIES

GET A NEW STARTING PG LIKE I SAY EVERY DAMN DAY

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teague really has the advantage over bibby and jc1. HE IS YOUNGER. he should spend his entire summer shooting 1,000 shots in the morning, work out, and shoot 1000 shots in the evening. do this for 60 days durin’ 2 summer, by his 4th yr in league, he should be starting. this is dedication. this separates the wheat from the chaff

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No point getting McGhee with Collins playing this well (he has taken at least 3 charges – what other big on this team can EFFECTIVELY take a charge?)

Get a point guard.

Also, Teague’s 3s haven’t been bad lately

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Isaiah Thomas is somewhere laughing at everyone about Wilson Chandler. Isaiah was crazy with contracts, but he was good in the draft.

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MC – I have been an average sports page reader for over 30 years, way before there were blogs and the internet. And I’m not trying to exagerate, but I don’t think I’ve read a finer article anywhere. This nailed it exactly, and you tactfully but forcefully stated your opinions about LD’s decisions. This was great!

And true. Start Teague, see what happens. I’m a Bibby fan, and he can still get his 18 mpg as an aging PG. Develop Teague, you’ll be glad you did. The guys a freakish athlete. And a good scorer to if you ever saw him in college. All these folks dissing his J don’t know what there talking about.

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I like this article MC. I have been wondering this Teague thing. Does he have to get 20 assist and 20 points in 18 minutes to get more PT. you figure that one out. He would basically have to pass it to himself and score. Plenty of teams would give so much for a promising young point guard.

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I’m hoping all this playing time is marketing ZaZa, Mo and Crawford for potential suitors. Right now they don’t seem to be in “future” plans for the team. Bibby was right there with them, but he’s shown he can be of value. If Crawford could prove he’s down with LD’s motion offense and actually play D I’d be down for giving him whatever he wants to stay. As long as he insists on dictating the offense and playing no D he has no place in our future.

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great work, Mike.
one thing i’d throw out about Drew’s thinking and where it maybe doesn’t match his actions. he’s waited his whole coaching career for this opportunity and he has to think he’s on a relatively short leash. he knows what he’s going to get from bibby (for better or worse). teague has obvious potential, but isn’t nearly as consistent.
i can see why he wouldn’t be quite as willing to roll the dice night to night with teague and play for the long term as you hope he would. not saying it’s right, just that i understand.

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Interesting trade (no I am not endorsing it):

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ctj2k3

May need to throw in a draft pick or two and/or Teague.

Hawks get Camby, Billups, and Harrington. The trade solves the Hawks two biggest problems. Denver goes for it because the trade immediately makes them relevant (assuming they decide to make a run this year w/ Melo; however, even if the move Melo there are other reasons why they might bite on this deal). Portland goes for it because they need to blow up the team and immediately start rebuilding.

It ends up being a blockbuster high-risk/high-reward trade that could possibly push the Hawks into contender status (or it could completely blow up in their faces, depending on how the new players accumulate to the Hawks).

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Teague is gaining confidence and thus his play has elevated. But when bibby eventually gets away from his recent struggles and jamal starts to get hot there will be more dnps for jt. Once he learns how to absorb contact in the paint and stop relying on the floater so much he will be a good player for the hawks.

In reality bibby only has 1.5 years left as a hawk so it’s time to start amping up teague’s development.

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Bibby can only get worse, and Teague can only get better. If LD keeps this up, Bibby’s contract will be in its final year, and we still dont know what Teague can do.

And guys should not give up on Teague either. Mike Conley was picked 4th, and he did not start playing well until his third or fourth year.

I know Teague’s situation is difficult because he is on a potential 50 win team, but I think Teague has the potential to be at least a solid backup PG.

I have been disappointed in LD with the development. Mo Evans and Jamal are in their final year, which means they could be gone. So what will LD do next year?

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JC2 is the best rookie we’ve had here since Al Horford. LD is much worse than Woody by not playing JC2. Dude is a baller. Huge mistake.

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Let me be clear-nearly all of your posts are very well written and informative. However, I take issue with the substance part involving LD mainly because I feel he does not get enough praise from the media in general.

On the point of Teague’s production, while up to this point he has given production beyond what was expected given his role, but I believed I said that I would not rely on that or believe that to expand given extra playing time when the Hawks are determined to win the East and make it to the championship(which I think they will do). That is why I believe we can use the available money that would have gone to Shaq to make a deal only for Nash. I do not think this team needs much except a little more benefit from the whistle and beyond Nash’s passing ability, I think that he would help here too. However, I do not think we should make a deal for the only purpose of just making one.

MC, you spoke of how poor the Hawks p&r defense was, which I believe would be partially solved with giving Mo Evans more pt. His greatest value is his perimeter quickness and I believe he should play more SG and move JJ to the three more when we are playing smaller lineups with quick guards like tomorrow with Golden State.

To be honest, this is the only sports blog I post on and that is mainly because the content you provide is interesting and in depth.

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The Bucks crushed the Lakers
We crushed the Bucks……..
Nuff Said

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@JeJe
-um no we will not see Mo on king james because Joe is healthy………….
….Nuff Said

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If the Hawks are suppose to be a “Defense First” team, why isn’t the starting rotation:

1 Teague
2 Johnson
3 Smoove
4 Horford
5 Collins

Would this not be the ideal lineup for solid defense and easy transition buckets?

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Is it me, or is anybody else looking forward to seeing how well Pape Sy does with the Utah Flash?

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MC great post by my man RUFUS he said the celtics win because of rondo and perkins who’s defense out way there non off. skills, very well put with collins starting at center and teague at point the defense intensity will raise 2 another level and make the hawks contenders not pretenders.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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Teague have shown flashes on defense, and kind of remind me of eddie johnson back in the day with the hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS
BENCH BIBBY, JAMAL, MARVIN, POWELL, ZAZA
RESERVE MOE, DAMIEN
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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NOW WE TALKIN MC!! I am TIRED of LD saying that he is trying to put his stamp on the team starting with the defensive end but not giving our best defensive players more time in favor of just “shotmakers”! After all, defense turns into “great” offense with steals and fast-break points! It creates easier baskets and momentum (or breaks it for opposing teams) for those times when the offense is stagnant! Gerald Wilkens did a GREAT job on Lebron but rarely hits the floor!! LD has to come to understand that those type of players that make those type of plays can “CHANGE THE CULTURE” of our team and provide us with a real identity! But you know..maybe he does but politics get in the way of the game too! But if he were really smart he would learn how to be more flexible in his approach and mix and match his personnel according to their assets! Put Teague at the point sometimes.. move Bib to the 2, JJ to the 3, Josh at the 4, and Al at the 5 and run the other teams ass off the court! Cause with Teague’s defense and quickness he could get easy baskets or more wide open shots for guys and THAT would make us roll!! He could also, learn to use guys to dictate the pace of the game and when we slow the game down or what not! But really he needs to show our young guys that he has confidence in them to get the job done, and not just hold them hostage til somebody gets hurt, AND to stick to his guns! STOP COMPROMISING WITH GUYS! IF THEY KEEP TAKING ILL-ADVISED SHOTS, MAKING BAD TURNOVERS! SIT ‘EM!! And don’t be afraid to think outside the box “be water”! LOL! LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Just listen how LD over looks MC’s concerns when it comes to Teague! He can’t give the CORRECT explanation as to why Teague isnt getting is just dues in more playing time. Sunds has LD hands tied right now until the trading deadline has passed. And I guess Teague understands the situation as well since he doesnt seem to ‘upset’ that he got a DNP the other game. He basically saids, “as long as we are winning, I’m fine”

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“his decisions in this matter reflect a different tact.”

FYI – It should be different “tack”, meaning direction. It comes from the sailing term to tack back and forth.

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If LD keeps trying the same things that got Woody fired, his stock will continue to drop.

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Hawks fans are willing to take whatever bumps we might hit if we give Teague the burn he needs. WE UNDERSTAND the long term impact this will have on the team…..why can’t LD or the ASG.

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Thanks for that journey into LD’s mind MC. Even casual fans must wonder what LD’s thinking when he doesn’t use Teague on quick guards and against great pick and roll teams.

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The Wizards might be asking around, but I seriously doubt they pull the trigger on a McGee trade, especilly not McGee who’s still producing a rookie scale salary.

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1. Bench Bibby +
2. Trade Jamal +
3. Start Teague

Ending Result = The Hawks become a better team.

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On Teague:

I think he will do well in the future and I believe that LD has failed to increment his usage in some games where he would certainly help.

One of the things I notice in his game and that I like a lot (that passes unnoticed) is that almost every single pass he makes to an open man is perfectly directed to the optimum “catch to shoot” location.

Almost every single pass.

You should look into this during the next games.

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vava74,

Idk, from what I hear over-the-hill or vet minimum NBA player can head over there and average Jordanesque stats (not you Steve Francis, sorry buddy).

But good for Randolph! He’s probably like Dwight Howard over there.

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I just hate that Camby’s so injury prone. Makes me sad.

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Hilarious.

No matter what Larry Drew does, he will be compared to the guy he used to work for.

If he’s a liar, he learned it from Woody.

If he is in love with the shot-making tandem of backcourt players, he learned it from Woody.

If you’re going to blame him for acting like Woody, then give Woody the credit for being that influential. I mean, who else could Drew have learned from, huh? Either that, or judge the man on his own merits. But I know better than to expect something like that. It’s only too convenient to hate on the closest target, especially if you were in love with Woody to begin with.

Funny how people are all over Drew for having to deal with the same problems that were here when Woody was here. Yep, the same PERSONNEL problems. Yet, there have been differences on both offense and defense.

Ah, but here is the difference: the switching defense was a scheme that the Hawks relied on all the time to hide the defensive issues that Bibby and Crawford create. Instead of doing that, Drew leaves these guys exposed and says they gotta live with defending their own men. The result is not having Horford and Smith out defending on the perimeter.

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This was written in an article by MC:
“In what has become an ongoing dialogue this season, Drew chatted with forward Josh Smith about his shot selection on Monday. According to Hoopdata.com, in the past six games entering Monday, Smith had missed 27 of 33 shots from beyond 15 feet.”

Is Smith just stupid or is he defiant? Either way, it is not good. This has been ongoing for the past couple of years.

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i_am_soulstar,

I am perfectly aware of the fact that stats on the Chinese League are what they are.

I was taking a blow at the people who thought that Siler was anything more than a huge body.

Randolph has terrific basketball fundamentals (post moves) and a size which allow him to dominate on a league like the Chinese.

Nonetheless, I actually believe that if Randolph had the desire (which he apparently does not) an experience like this one could allow him to get his game back and still be a productive player.

Siler does not have the fundamentals, only the desire, so I believe that he will quickly be out of the league again.

If they could switch portions of their brains (or feed RandMo with some seriously wicked amphetamines) the result would be a heck of a player.

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When’s the last time Bibby did a fancy move: cross over another point guard, did a step back jumper, executed a fast break?

He is good for hitting contested shots and playing shoddy defense

START TEAGUE

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Now I wonder if some people are noticing these things:

1) Mike Bibby is playing better on both offense and defense this season. Last season, we all thought he had one foot in the proverbial grave. But the truth is, the guy is better on both ends of the floor. On the defensive end, he hasn’t gotten any faster, and he won’t. But his effort has been a lot better than it was under Woody. Say what you want about that, but I’m sure that I’m not the only one who has seen it.

2) Drew can talk about getting Bibby to be better on defense, but it’s not realistic from a physical standpoint. He can’t/won’t get better. But Teague on the other hand, can get better at everything, even on offense.

3) I have to say that I’m not happy with Drew where Teague is concerned. Teague justified the spare minutes earlier in the season. He has, however, justified more playing time in the last several games, and Drew has still gone with other options.

4) Part of the issue with Drew’s decisions is this… and a lot of people have forgotten about this – Drew is expected to bring this team to greater heights (i.e., more wins), with damn near the exact same personnel . There are no excuses for some of his decisions, but you better believe that a part of this is the expectation that he can at least maintain last year’s win total and record position. Yep, management placed all the pressure on him, and none of it on themselves. Ba$tard$.

And you know this is true. How many times have you see the quotes where ownership/management keeps yapping about “we like our core”, “we’re going to wait and see what this group does”, “we’re patient, we gotta let these guys grow” and all that other BS?

5) Horford has improved under Drew. Pachulia has been exposed. Collins has improved under Drew.

6) Any point guard woes can be attributed to a single move in Hawks history. “With the 2nd pick of the 2005 NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks select…”

We missed two things with that pick, and we still are missing those two things: A TRUE TEAM LEADER and A TOP FLIGHT STARTING POINT GUARD FOR THE NEXT 5-10 YEARS.

Not very often do you get a solid starting point guard who can take the job in the first or second year, if you are picking outside the lottery, or below the first 15 or 16 picks, even in a guard-heavy draft. Exceptions like Rajon Rondo exist, but there are few such exceptions. Teague was the 7th guy picked, that ain’t a first or second year starter. Even the higher picks tend to struggle.

But when you ignore two obvious stars so you can add another guy that you hope will turn into Glenn Robinson, you screw yourself. That’s what we did, and we’ve been paying for it ever since, trying to mix and match different guys like Bibby, Lue, AJ, Jamal (off the bench), Ivey, Teague, and others ever since. And there ain’t no hope in sight.

Even a high pick and talent like Mike Conley hasn’t come on strong until his 4th year.

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Northcyde ,

No way is Teague nearly as good with the starting unit as Bibby is. No way. And not for another year or two, if we look at his total curve of growth.

I can certainly understand where you’re coming from with those stats that suggest Teague’s counterparts have been lighting him up. I think there is more detail here. Teague defends pretty well as long as he doesn’t come up against a hard screen. But it’s not so much that he gets beaten on defense as it is that with the exception of the bulk of the last several games, Teague wasn’t scoring worth a crap.

So, in effect, a guy could shoot 3-9 against Teague and score only 6 or 7 points. But when Teague isn’t scoring at all, or is only putting up 2 points (happened way too often), it’s gonna look bad. His defense certainly isn’t perfect (but can be pretty dang good), but his offense has been flat out disgusting early on.

Also, I haven’t been on Bibby for his defense. I have watched him this season, and there is no doubt in my mind that he has been better, despite the lack of switching to hide his physical limitations. Dude has simply given more effort and gotten into passing lanes more, and even defended decently when he’s been posted up.

The problem is what is has been, and what many are blind to because they are dazzled by his dribble: JAMAL CRAWFORD.

Not only is the effort rarely there, but when it comes, it is in mere spurts, and when his shot is off, he kills us on both ends. Literally KILLS us. When his shot is on, and the opposition isn’t playing well, nobody notices the missed assignments, the half-a$$ed efforts, and the lost looking approach.

Back to the original subject….Teague isn’t close to being somebody who can put Bibby on the bench for more minutes. He’s earned his 18 mpg game recently, but the trend must continue. Bibby is still better until Teague can score more efficiently and consistently, and from outside. And, Bibby is still a better passer and ball handler. Teague has to learn to play under control all the time, the though team as a whole is turning the ball over like crazy some nights.

Big test against Golden State tonight. Their guards are superior to ours…and that’s a fact.

Still can’t believe we took Salim Stoudamire over Monta Ellis back in ‘05. Man, we messed that draft all the way up….

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FIRE RICK SUND
ASG SELL THE TEAMS PLEASE

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I don’t understand this love affair both MWoodson and LDrew have with Bibby. They both seem willing to weaken the teams overall DEF, and create difficulties for other players, by employing gimmicks to try and compensate for his liabilities. It’s not like he’s a prolific scoring PG, hell, he’s not even consistent.

Since when did we come to rely so heavily on 3pt shooting that we feel compelled to continue starting Bibby, and compensating for his many limitations? HOW CAN ANY TEAM EXPECT TO IMPROVE AND PROGRESS IF IT’S HC INSISTS ON DEPENDING ON THE NBA’S MOST LIMITED, AND ONE OF ITS LEAST PRODUCTIVE STARTING PG, WHO’S ALSO A TOTAL DEF LIABILITY?

How in the devil can any HC actually believe Bibby can provide us with a matchup advantage against anyone? In the NBA, it’s been established that PG is THE most important position in basketball, and a chain(team) is no stronger than its weakest link. Bibby is our weakest link, and for some unknown reason, both Woodson and Drew have found it necessary to protect, maintain and depend on our weakest link.

After playing only one third of the season, LDrew has already acknowledged Bibby has started to show signs of wearing down. We’re definitely not seeing the energy we saw from him at the start of the season. However, we are starting to see the same poor DEF effort and OFF inconsistencies that plagued him all of last yr. Instead of LDrew making adjustments or changes at PG, he’s decided to do what Woodson did, and that’s resort to DEF gimmicks to try and mask the obvious.

A lot of Bibby fans cling to the idea that he makes a lot of clutch shots, and they’re correct. But, this reminds me of the fued between John Elway and Dan Reeves, and a question he responded to about HC Dan Reeves after he was fired. The interviewer reminded Elway that it was under Dan Reeves that he became the NFL’s all time leader in come from behind victories.

Elway responded by saying Dan Reeves’ decision making, conversative approach, and play calling, is what put the team in most of those come from behind situations in the 1st place. So, with that said, maybe if we made a change or major adjustment at PG, we wouldn’t end up in so many situations where Bibby has to rescue us with his clutch 3pt shooting.

The Hawks certainly have more than enough OFF weapons to allow us to rely more on the speed, quickness penetrating ability and superior DEF of JTeague, rather than the 3pt shooting and atrocious DEF of MBibby, along with his other liabilities.

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My comment before the last one I posted is “under moderation”, because I had 2 hyperlinks in it. It answers Mr. Strickland’s last question on why Woody and LD seem to be “in love” with Bibby.

Can the rest of the blog see that post on why I think LD plays Bibby? If not, could Big Ray or MC rescue the post?

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If that ending lineup with Jamal with PG is so bad, why do we use it EVERY game?

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northcyde 9:49am post — people should read it.

At the beginning of the season, Teague struggled defensively, _completely_ losing his man way too often. Where Teague might have had the abilities to be the better defender, he simply lacked the fundamentals to be _any_ better than Bibby. [Trade speed for fundamentals, and the result is still bad defense.] Of course, everyone saw/remembered what they wanted to see/remember. They forgot the times Teague got broken down by a weak crossover move, but remembered Bibby being a step behind his man.

[By the way, Bibby has improved his defensive intensity this year. He is really fighting. Nonetheless, "fast don't lie." Bibby simply cannot keep up with many of the younger, faster PGs.]

However, Teague has looked better both offensively and defensively over the last few games, so I am willing to _tentatively_ see him as becoming a better defensive player than Bibby. [Yes, I meant exactly what I said.]

Take off the rose-tinted glasses when viewing Teague. Take of the cloud-lined glasses when viewing Bibby. Then, you just may have some of the answers you are looking for.

Now with all that said, I am all for Teague getting more playing time in spite of the fact that he is not yet a better ball player [perhaps not even a better defender] than those in front of him in the rotation. He has progressed noticeably this season. If Teague is “ready” by playoff times, this Hawks team may be a real[/at least a minor] threat.

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Great article by Bret LaGree

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2010/12/28/average-hawks-in-need-of-financial-creativity/

He touches on the Jamal, Bibby and Joe on the floor at the sametime….They are down 4.9pts a game.

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Big Ray

“Still can’t believe we took Salim Stoudamire over Monta Ellis back in ‘05. Man, we messed that draft all the way up”….

Both of the players took in the 2005 draft were never given an oppurtunity to showcase any skills…Salim should still be playing for the Hawks..The kid could shoot,drive, and flat out score..Woody ruined Salim.the worst move Bk made was hiring Woodson.Bk gave Woodson a deep talented roster,Woody went with old Journeymen Lue,Flip,Mo,A johnson…Marvin over Paul and DWill were not a terrible pick…for these reasons

1.Neither Paul or DWill have won anything..Not like you passed on Jordan
2.On draft night Bilas said 5 or 6 years down the road Marvin might be the best of the whole draft..Now, if Drew would let Marvin be the 2nd option, Marvin will score 20 a night easily, Woody and Drew love for joe Max to have the ball all game…Then when Jamal comes in at the pg, even though he is a sg, he have the ball all game…

give Doc Rivers this team, he would have contended for a title

c Pachullia/Morris,Solo
pf Al,josh,diaw,solo
sf Marvin,diaw,josh
sg Joe,childress,salim
pg bibby,law,salim

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Big Ray:

“The problem is what is has been, and what many are blind to because they are dazzled by his dribble: JAMAL CRAWFORD.”

northcyde:

“Jamal should play somewhere around 25 minutes a game. If he has it going, and he’s not giving points back on the defensive end, you can afford to play him more minutes.”

Ummm… there was a blogger repeating ad nauseam precisely these thoughts last year and this past summer…

Ummm, I wonder who it was….

If I am not wrong, that same blogger also said that the team actually got worse with the change between Flip and Jamal… precisely due to these two factors (inferior D and too many minutes on the floor)

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i can see now why larry drew is the lowest paid coach in the league.

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Big Ray,

You beat me to it.

Teague rarely gets beat unless he runs into a hard screen. But I think that has as much to with Teague’s inability to fight through some screens as it does with the Hawks being lousy as a whole at defending the pick and roll.

But are the Hawks really better with Bibby in the starting lineup than Teague?? Such a small sample size because Teague almost never plays with the starters.

PER isn’t everything, but Teague has a 14.70 PER so far this season.

Bibby has 12.89.

Besides hitting the 3 ball and having an awesome assist-to-turnover ratio, there’s not much Bibby does better than Teague.

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I have no problem at all starting bibby. he is okay on defense but his Shot making cant be replaced Teague is a liability IMO-yeah hes fast /quick but he has no offensive game at all. floater after floater and he misses alot right at the rim. Seriously how is he any better than AC Law…..

Bibby has had a good year so far lets stop concentrating on his D we know its suspect but the guy is a flat out assasin shooting the rock-I’ll take that over teagues hustle and lack of shooting ability.

JC1/ZaZA/Mo/1st for Monte Ellis/Hunter

Monte
JJ
Smoove
Horford
Collins

Bench:
Marvin Teague Hunter Wilkins JC2 EThomas

Marvin should stay on the bench -he plays better as a sub-alot more agressive.

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AND WHY DOES DAMIEN NOT PLAY ANYMORE?

YOU WANT TO SACRIFICE WINS SO YOU CAN “SHOWCASE” YOUR PLAYERS WHO WON’T EVEN BE TRADED

FIRE SUND

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Teague will be good in about 2 more years. He will never be an elite PG, but I think he will be good enough to be a floor leader. Right now, our PG’s can’t play any D on the bigger and faster guards such as: D Williams, D Rose, and Rondo.

I think the Hawks need to make some moves before the trade deadline!

Thanks,

http://www.the404list.com

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The reason Bibby is on the floor with the starters has more to do with personel than anything. Smith and Horford like to play on the perimeter, and neither has above average post moves. When teams play us they double Joe, which leaves someone on the perimeter open. Teams have not ever had to worry about Marvin, so the only guy of the starters that will get open jump shots and knock them down is Bibby. Marvin until this year, was never able to knock down open shots. Horford has become very good a knocking down the jump shot, this year as well. Bibby is one of the top 3 point shooters in the league because of the many open looks he gets based on our personel. Teauge has not proved that he can hit an open shot, and he can’t penetrate and finish either. His defense is better than Bibby and Jamal’s, but his offense is so terrible that his defense is not good enough to justify playing him before Bibby. If we start Teague, we will go thru very long scoring droughts, if Marvin can’t knock down open shots. Teams will double Joe, focus on Horford, and allow Josh Smith, Marvin, and Teague to beat them from the perimeter. I would take those odds all day. If Teague can’t shoot, he has to be able to pentrate and finish, which he has not shown that he can do.

Everyone here seems to harp on the defensive end of the floor, but again in the last two second round playoff blowouts to Cleveland, and Orlando, the Hawks averaged in the high 70’s one series, and the low 80’s in the other series. The team as constructed will not be able to score in the playoffs agianst good defensive teams unless Marvin can up his production offensively, which I doubt, and Teague (If he starts as most of you suggest) can learn how to penetrate and finish, because his jumper is broke.

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northcyde,

Dejuan Blair is balling again. Last night, dude had 17 and 15 against the Lakers. And for the season, he is averaging 7 and 7 in 20 mpg. Imagine if we had him as our backup PF.

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The rationale for Drew’s decisions are, sadly, similar to Mike Woodson’s:

His contract status.

LD has been given only two guaranteed years on his contract and he’s following a guy who was fired despite winning 53 games last year. Only an idiot would focus on the future.

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Daniel,

The only explanation LD gave about his role in the previous coaching regime (and I might be paraphrasing a little) was that “all he could do is make suggestions, and it was up to the HC (Woody) to decide what to use”.

That is basically what LD said at his press conference.

But he is in a tough spot, because ASG and Rick said they like their core, and they just had 53 wins and a second round appearance. LD does not have to win 53 games, but I think his team MUST make it to the second round (assuming everyone is healthy during the playoffs).

Otherwise, he will be under pressure next year, and he only has 2 years guaranteed on his deal.

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nice blog. but atlantas gaurds are good

bibby will be fine, hes good with teauge on his back

what they need is a solid center and a cap space for next year..

i heard sac town is trashing cousins beacause of his attitude. sund can send them an offer and give them williams. cousins will be happy playing in a winning team and hawks can work on his attitude like they did on smith..

if they want a cap space and make use the expiring contract of jamal crawford. send crawford williams and collins to sacramento for cousins and tyreke evans.. maybe it will work

and the hawks will be a very young and talented team

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Big Ray, I will admit some bloggers get a little over zealous when assessing Bibby’s overall value to the Hawks…and Je Je…THIS DUDE…get’s downright rabbit at time with his comments.heh heh

However, I don’t think the vast majority of bloggers are implying that LD should just simply hand the starting PG job over to Teague…just give dude another chance to challenge for increased PT…he’s earned that in spite of his shortcoming…same GOES FOR Collins.

Why the focus is on LD…let’s not forget…we are dealing with cash strap owners…THAT LOVE THEIR CORE…jeeeeeez…leave it lon mike.lol

So a major upgrade at the PG position via trade is highly unlikely…what other realistic option does LD have…Heck even LD himself said he thought Bibby could use a break…would that not warrant getting young Teague some more burn…just in case Bibby ends up needing some down time to sustain his new found youth, effort and energy.

Surely, we will need Bibby to perform as good or better come the playoff…let’s try to ease the wear and tear on Bibby too…just saying.

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Larry Drew wants to be around for a long time, so what does he do? Stick with the veterans so he won’t get critizized. Mike Bibby should never have received an extension. Larry is thinking short term like Mike Woodson. You win now, but lose in the playoffs. Bibby will get them killed in the playoffs.

My recommendation:
At the start of the second half the game is zero-zero, start Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford, move Joe Johnson to the three. They would provide energy and lessen the 3rd quarter drag. Also, this way you set it up for Teague and Crawford to be in the game at the end through your substitution pattern. Sure you give up defense at the two, but you gain at the one which has a higher priority (cutoff penetration into the lane, more problems). You will need Teague for the playoffs (his defense and penetration).

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i don’t really know which point guard will run the team

but in my point of view, maybe teague is a better defender than bibby, but what i see now is that bbiby is playing hard and better. maybe hes not a good defender but as a veteran player he knows what do and improving and working hard on hes defense,

bibby is a better shooter than teague but teauge is faster and quicker. and bbiby knows when to take a shot. maybe teague is faster than bibby but speed is not everything bibby is the only one on the team that knows how to run the team so well.

maybe the reason why LD starts bibby because:
1. hes good 3 point shooter and a threat
2. he knows how to run the team and the only one that make the right decisions often
3. hes a good passer and and knows where to give the ball
4. maybe hes slowing but hes a well experienced veteran
and lastly; hes the pg that plays better with the starting 5 and maybe the rest of the team.

yes teague is fast quick and good defender. but bibby is playing for the team, he doesn’t care if hes numbers are low or having few minutes. and hes not being selfish hes just playing to win

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Rev in Tampa;
It was a weak attempt @ humor based on *{{{SteveW @ 9:46 pm}}}
Just lampooning his hyperbole.

* “I have been an average sports page reader for over 30 years,
way before there were blogs and the internet. And I’m not trying
to exagerate, but I don’t think I’ve read a finer article anywhere”

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drmaryb (*_*) ?

Salim had talent…woody never gave him a chance..the hawks coaching staff never give players the oppurtunity to shine..Jordan crawford should be in the rotation, I have no idea why Drew is not playing Teauge, He rather play Jamal at pg and not his natural position(sg)..this happens with all the Hawks young guys…Oh yeah let my nuts go..All that i ever said was that Marvin can be a big time scorer…D

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LD hasn’t proven a dam thing. We’re in 5th place with a good likely hood that we’ll finish lower and get beat in the first round of the playoffs.

Ken, there you go again, comparing back to back champions to “nobodys”. Everybody in the world (including you) know this team’s ceiling is no more than a 2nd round playoff appearance. The Lakers are proven. I don’t get it.

Teague has not taken the starting job because he too passive and has no leadership ability. As much as I have supported Mike Bibby, even I know he’s on his way down but I still don’t see Teague taking over. He has no confidence and is scared to take on the leadership role. You guys keep saying how good he is on defense. I don’t see it. he get’s beat off the dribble as much as the rest of them. Tonight will be a good test.

My Boy, Monta Ellis, will be in town. let’s see what Teague got. Will he step up or get “ABUSED”.

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Northcyde ,

Sorry, I can only resuce posts on my own blog. I would have loved to have read what you posted.

Samuel ,

I agree that Larry Drew is worse with Jordan Crawford when clearly the youngster can PLAY. No excuses for that, especially when he could become so much more balanced than Jamal is, if only he is developed.

Vava ,

Was that same person the one decrying Mike Bibby all offseason long and saying that Teague should take his spot?

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i just want the best 4 the city and with what we have now we will get swept in the 1st round no dought. my new years wish is that Authur Blank some how come to our rescue and get this franchise on soilid ground. 2 make a long story short we gotta make changes top 2 bottom.

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Drew better play Teague.

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or not.

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Ken,so far, Bibby is winning hands down. LOL!!

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can we please trade mike bibby and jaml crawford to the bobcats for DJ augustin and gerald wallace? the bobcats want a veteran guard and a scoring guard. they get both and we get rid of jamal crawford’s contract and bring in a point gaurd who averages more points than bibby anyway. plus wallace can contribute 2

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